There  there is a complication though , and that is if a person turns their back to the  to the PDA , then some of the positional information goes away ?

Well , it  it  it does , i it d it does , but the  the  the issue is that  that

No , it 's not  it 's not that so much as


Well , it  it  it does , i it d it does , but the  the  the issue is that  that

No , it 's not  it 's not that so much as

And then , And if they 're on the access   on the axis of it , that was the other thing I was thinking.


No , it 's not  it 's not that so much as

And then , And if they 're on the access   on the axis of it , that was the other thing I was thinking.

He  You mentioned this last time , that  that if  if you 're straight down the midline , then  then  the r the left - right 's gonna be different ,


And then , And if they 're on the access   on the axis of it , that was the other thing I was thinking.

He  You mentioned this last time , that  that if  if you 're straight down the midline , then  then  the r the left - right 's gonna be different ,

Yeah , we hav need to put it on a little turntable ,


He  You mentioned this last time , that  that if  if you 're straight down the midline , then  then  the r the left - right 's gonna be different ,

Yeah , we hav need to put it on a little turntable ,


Yeah , we hav need to put it on a little turntable ,


and  and  and in his case , I mean , he 's closer to it anyway.


and  and  and in his case , I mean , he 's closer to it anyway.

It seems to me that  that it 's not  a p uh , you know , it 's  this  the topograph the topology of it is  is a little bit complicated.


and  and  and in his case , I mean , he 's closer to it anyway.

It seems to me that  that it 's not  a p uh , you know , it 's  this  the topograph the topology of it is  is a little bit complicated.

But it 's another source of information.


It seems to me that  that it 's not  a p uh , you know , it 's  this  the topograph the topology of it is  is a little bit complicated.

But it 's another source of information.


But it 's another source of information.

I  I  I think  Sorry. I  I  I think because the the the distance between the two microph eh , microphone , eh , in the PDA is very near. But it 's uh  from my opinion , it 's an interesting idea to  to try to study the binaural eh problem eh , with information , because I  I found difference between the  the speech from  from each micro eh , in the PDA.


I  I  I think  Sorry. I  I  I think because the the the distance between the two microph eh , microphone , eh , in the PDA is very near. But it 's uh  from my opinion , it 's an interesting idea to  to try to study the binaural eh problem eh , with information , because I  I found difference between the  the speech from  from each micro eh , in the PDA.


I  I  I think  Sorry. I  I  I think because the the the distance between the two microph eh , microphone , eh , in the PDA is very near. But it 's uh  from my opinion , it 's an interesting idea to  to try to study the binaural eh problem eh , with information , because I  I found difference between the  the speech from  from each micro eh , in the PDA.

Yeah , it 's timing difference. It - it 's not amplitude ,


Yeah , it 's timing difference. It - it 's not amplitude ,

Oh yeah ! Oh I agree ! And we use it ourselves.


Yeah , it 's timing difference. It - it 's not amplitude ,

Oh yeah ! Oh I agree ! And we use it ourselves.

I mean , I know  I n I know that 's a very important cue.


Oh yeah ! Oh I agree ! And we use it ourselves.

I mean , I know  I n I know that 's a very important cue.


I mean , I know  I n I know that 's a very important cue.


I mean , I know  I n I know that 's a very important cue.

But I 'm just  I 'm just saying that the way we 're seated around a table , is not the same with respect to each  to each person with respect to the PDA ,


But I 'm just  I 'm just saying that the way we 're seated around a table , is not the same with respect to each  to each person with respect to the PDA ,


But I 'm just  I 'm just saying that the way we 're seated around a table , is not the same with respect to each  to each person with respect to the PDA ,

so we 're gonna have a lot of differences with ref respect to the speaker.


so we 're gonna have a lot of differences with ref respect to the speaker.

But th I don't think that matters , though.


But th I don't think that matters , though.

That 's  So  so i @ @  I think the issue is , " Is there a clean signal coming from only one direction ? "


That 's  So  so i @ @  I think the issue is , " Is there a clean signal coming from only one direction ? "

If it 's not coming from just one direction , if it  if th if there 's a broader pattern , it means that it 's more likely there 's multiple people speaking ,


If it 's not coming from just one direction , if it  if th if there 's a broader pattern , it means that it 's more likely there 's multiple people speaking ,


If it 's not coming from just one direction , if it  if th if there 's a broader pattern , it means that it 's more likely there 's multiple people speaking ,

So it 's sort of like how  how confused is it about where the beam is.


So it 's sort of like how  how confused is it about where the beam is.


So it 's sort of like how  how confused is it about where the beam is.

Yeah , is there a narrow  Is there a narrow beam pattern or is it a  a distributed beam pattern ? So if there 's a distributed beam pattern , then it looks more like it 's  it 's uh , multiple people.


Yeah , is there a narrow  Is there a narrow beam pattern or is it a  a distributed beam pattern ? So if there 's a distributed beam pattern , then it looks more like it 's  it 's uh , multiple people.


Yeah , is there a narrow  Is there a narrow beam pattern or is it a  a distributed beam pattern ? So if there 's a distributed beam pattern , then it looks more like it 's  it 's uh , multiple people.

Wherever you are , even if he moves around.


Yeah , is there a narrow  Is there a narrow beam pattern or is it a  a distributed beam pattern ? So if there 's a distributed beam pattern , then it looks more like it 's  it 's uh , multiple people.

Wherever you are , even if he moves around.

OK. Yeah. OK , it just  it just seemed to me that  uh , that this isn't the ideal type of separation. I mean , I  I think it 's  I can see the value o


Wherever you are , even if he moves around.

OK. Yeah. OK , it just  it just seemed to me that  uh , that this isn't the ideal type of separation. I mean , I  I think it 's  I can see the value o

Oh , ideal would be to have the wall filled with them , but I mean   But the thing is just having two mikes  If you looked at that thing on  on Dan 's page , it was  When  when there were two people speaking , and it looked really really different.


OK. Yeah. OK , it just  it just seemed to me that  uh , that this isn't the ideal type of separation. I mean , I  I think it 's  I can see the value o

Oh , ideal would be to have the wall filled with them , but I mean   But the thing is just having two mikes  If you looked at that thing on  on Dan 's page , it was  When  when there were two people speaking , and it looked really really different.


Oh , ideal would be to have the wall filled with them , but I mean   But the thing is just having two mikes  If you looked at that thing on  on Dan 's page , it was  When  when there were two people speaking , and it looked really really different.


Uh , well , basic he was looking at correlation.


Uh , well , basic he was looking at correlation.

Just cross - correlation between two sides.


Just cross - correlation between two sides.

Did - Sorry , b uh I 'm not sure what Dan 's page is that you mean. He was looking at the two


Just cross - correlation between two sides.

Did - Sorry , b uh I 'm not sure what Dan 's page is that you mean. He was looking at the two

So cross - correlation is pretty sensitive.


Did - Sorry , b uh I 'm not sure what Dan 's page is that you mean. He was looking at the two

So cross - correlation is pretty sensitive.

You take the signal from the two microphones and you cros and you cross - correlate them with different lags.


So cross - correlation is pretty sensitive.

You take the signal from the two microphones and you cros and you cross - correlate them with different lags.


You take the signal from the two microphones and you cros and you cross - correlate them with different lags.


OK. So when one person is speaking , then wherever they happen to be at the point when they 're speaking ,  then there 's a pretty big maximum right around that point in the l in  in the lag.


OK. So when one person is speaking , then wherever they happen to be at the point when they 're speaking ,  then there 's a pretty big maximum right around that point in the l in  in the lag.

So if  at whatever angle you are ,  at some lag corresponding to the time difference between the two there , you get this boost in the  in  in the cross - correlation value  function.


So if  at whatever angle you are ,  at some lag corresponding to the time difference between the two there , you get this boost in the  in  in the cross - correlation value  function.

And if there are multiple people talking , you 'll see two peaks.


And if there are multiple people talking , you 'll see two peaks.


And if there are multiple people talking , you 'll see two peaks.

Well , let me ask you , if  if both people were over there , it would be less effective than if one was there and one was across , catty - corner ?


Well , let me ask you , if  if both people were over there , it would be less effective than if one was there and one was across , catty - corner ?


If I was  if I was here and Morgan was there and we were both talking , it wouldn't work.


If I was  if I was here and Morgan was there and we were both talking , it wouldn't work.

Next  next one over n over  on this side of the P  PDA.


Next  next one over n over  on this side of the P  PDA.


Next  next one over n over  on this side of the P  PDA.

There we go. Good example , the same one I 'm asking.


There we go. Good example , the same one I 'm asking.


Versus you  versus  you know , and we 're catty - corner across the table , and I 'm farther away from this one and you 're farther away from that one.


Versus you  versus  you know , and we 're catty - corner across the table , and I 'm farther away from this one and you 're farther away from that one.

Or  or even if , like , if people were sitting right across from each other , you couldn't tell the difference either.


Or  or even if , like , if people were sitting right across from each other , you couldn't tell the difference either.

It seems like that would be pretty strong.


It seems like that would be pretty strong.


It seems like that would be pretty strong.

Across  the same axis , you don't have as much to differentiate.


Across  the same axis , you don't have as much to differentiate.

Well , we d yeah , we don't have a third dimension there. Yeah , so it 's


Across  the same axis , you don't have as much to differentiate.

Well , we d yeah , we don't have a third dimension there. Yeah , so it 's

And so my point was just that it 's  it 's gonna be differentially  differentially varia valuable.


Well , we d yeah , we don't have a third dimension there. Yeah , so it 's

And so my point was just that it 's  it 's gonna be differentially  differentially varia valuable.


Well , we d yeah , we don't have a third dimension there. Yeah , so it 's

And so my point was just that it 's  it 's gonna be differentially  differentially varia valuable.

I mean , it 's not to say  I mean , I certainly think it 's extremely val  And we  we humans  n n depend on  you know , these  these binaural cues.


And so my point was just that it 's  it 's gonna be differentially  differentially varia valuable.

I mean , it 's not to say  I mean , I certainly think it 's extremely val  And we  we humans  n n depend on  you know , these  these binaural cues.


I mean , it 's not to say  I mean , I certainly think it 's extremely val  And we  we humans  n n depend on  you know , these  these binaural cues.

But it 's almost  but it 's almost a   I think what you 're talking about i there 's two things.


But it 's almost  but it 's almost a   I think what you 're talking about i there 's two things.


But it 's almost  but it 's almost a   I think what you 're talking about i there 's two things.

There 's a sensitivity issue , and then there 's a pathological error uh issue. So th the one where someone is just right directly in line is sort of a pathological error.


There 's a sensitivity issue , and then there 's a pathological error uh issue. So th the one where someone is just right directly in line is sort of a pathological error.


There 's a sensitivity issue , and then there 's a pathological error uh issue. So th the one where someone is just right directly in line is sort of a pathological error.

If someone just happens to be sitting right there then we won't get good information from it.


If someone just happens to be sitting right there then we won't get good information from it.

OK. and i and if there  So it  And if it 's the two of you guys on the same side


If someone just happens to be sitting right there then we won't get good information from it.

OK. and i and if there  So it  And if it 's the two of you guys on the same side

Uh , if they 're  if they 're close , it 's just a question of the sensitivity.


OK. and i and if there  So it  And if it 's the two of you guys on the same side

Uh , if they 're  if they 're close , it 's just a question of the sensitivity.

So if the sensitivity is good enough  and we just  we just don't have enough , uh , experience with it to know how


Uh , if they 're  if they 're close , it 's just a question of the sensitivity.

So if the sensitivity is good enough  and we just  we just don't have enough , uh , experience with it to know how


So if the sensitivity is good enough  and we just  we just don't have enough , uh , experience with it to know how


Oh I 'm not  I 'm not trying to argue against using it , by any means. I just wanted to point out that  that weakness , that it 's topo topologically impossible to get it perfect for everybody.


Oh I 'm not  I 'm not trying to argue against using it , by any means. I just wanted to point out that  that weakness , that it 's topo topologically impossible to get it perfect for everybody.

And I think Dan is still working on it. So. He actually  he wrote me about it a little bit , so.


Oh I 'm not  I 'm not trying to argue against using it , by any means. I just wanted to point out that  that weakness , that it 's topo topologically impossible to get it perfect for everybody.

And I think Dan is still working on it. So. He actually  he wrote me about it a little bit , so.

Great. No , I don't mean to discourage that at all.


And I think Dan is still working on it. So. He actually  he wrote me about it a little bit , so.

Great. No , I don't mean to discourage that at all.

I mean , the other thing you can do  uh , if  I mean , i We 're assuming that it would be a big deal just to get somebody  convince somebody to put two microphones in the PDA. But if you h put a third in ,  you could put in the other axis. And then you know  then you 're sort of  Yeah , then  then you pretty much could cover


Great. No , I don't mean to discourage that at all.

I mean , the other thing you can do  uh , if  I mean , i We 're assuming that it would be a big deal just to get somebody  convince somebody to put two microphones in the PDA. But if you h put a third in ,  you could put in the other axis. And then you know  then you 're sort of  Yeah , then  then you pretty much could cover


I mean , the other thing you can do  uh , if  I mean , i We 're assuming that it would be a big deal just to get somebody  convince somebody to put two microphones in the PDA. But if you h put a third in ,  you could put in the other axis. And then you know  then you 're sort of  Yeah , then  then you pretty much could cover


Well what about just doing it from these mikes ?


It will be more interesting to study the PZM because the  the  the separation  I  I think


It will be more interesting to study the PZM because the  the  the separation  I  I think

Uh @ @   But - but that 's  I mean , we can we 'll be  all of this is there for us to study.


It will be more interesting to study the PZM because the  the  the separation  I  I think

Uh @ @   But - but that 's  I mean , we can we 'll be  all of this is there for us to study.

Then they 're much broader. Yeah , we can do whatever we want.


Uh @ @   But - but that 's  I mean , we can we 'll be  all of this is there for us to study.

Then they 're much broader. Yeah , we can do whatever we want.

But   but  but the thing is , uh , one of the  at least one of the things I was hoping to get at with this is what can we do with what we think would be the normal situation if some people get together and one of them has a PDA.


Then they 're much broader. Yeah , we can do whatever we want.

But   but  but the thing is , uh , one of the  at least one of the things I was hoping to get at with this is what can we do with what we think would be the normal situation if some people get together and one of them has a PDA.


But   but  but the thing is , uh , one of the  at least one of the things I was hoping to get at with this is what can we do with what we think would be the normal situation if some people get together and one of them has a PDA.


But   but  but the thing is , uh , one of the  at least one of the things I was hoping to get at with this is what can we do with what we think would be the normal situation if some people get together and one of them has a PDA.

That 's what I was asking about , what are the constraints ?


That 's what I was asking about , what are the constraints ?


Well , that 's  that 's the constraint of one question that I think both Adam and I were  were  were interested in.


Uh , but  you know if you can instrument a room , this is really minor league compared with what some people are doing , right ? Some people at  at  uh , yeah , at Brown and  and  and  and  at uh  um and at Cape ,


they both have these , you know , big arrays on the wall. And you know , if you could do that , you 've got microphones all over the place


they both have these , you know , big arrays on the wall. And you know , if you could do that , you 've got microphones all over the place

uh , you know p tens of microphones , and  and uh


uh , you know p tens of microphones , and  and uh


uh , you know p tens of microphones , and  and uh

And if you do that then you can really get very nice uh kind of selectivity


And if you do that then you can really get very nice uh kind of selectivity


And if you do that then you can really get very nice uh kind of selectivity

Oh , I saw one that was like a hundred microphones , a ten by ten array.


Oh , I saw one that was like a hundred microphones , a ten by ten array.

And you could  In a noisy room , they could have all kinds of noises and you can zoom right in on somebody.


And you could  In a noisy room , they could have all kinds of noises and you can zoom right in on somebody.


It was all in software and they  and you could pick out an individual beam and listen to it.


But , the reason why I haven't focused on that as the fir my first concern is because um , I 'm interested in what happens for people , random people out in some random place where they 're p having an impromptu discussion. And you can't just always go , " well , let 's go to this heavily instrumented room that we spent tens of thousands of dollars to se to set up ".


But , the reason why I haven't focused on that as the fir my first concern is because um , I 'm interested in what happens for people , random people out in some random place where they 're p having an impromptu discussion. And you can't just always go , " well , let 's go to this heavily instrumented room that we spent tens of thousands of dollars to se to set up ".

No , what you need to do is you 'd have a little fabric thing that you unroll and hang on a wall.


No , what you need to do is you 'd have a little fabric thing that you unroll and hang on a wall.

It has all these mikes and it has a plug - in jack to the PDA.


It has all these mikes and it has a plug - in jack to the PDA.


It has all these mikes and it has a plug - in jack to the PDA.

The other thing actually , that gets at this a little bit of something else I 'd like to do , is what happens if you have two P D


The other thing actually , that gets at this a little bit of something else I 'd like to do , is what happens if you have two P D


The other thing actually , that gets at this a little bit of something else I 'd like to do , is what happens if you have two P D

and they communicate with each other ? And then  You know , they 're in random positions , the likelihood that  I mean , basically there wouldn't be any  l likely to be any kind of nulls , if you even had two. If you had three or four it 's  Yeah.


and they communicate with each other ? And then  You know , they 're in random positions , the likelihood that  I mean , basically there wouldn't be any  l likely to be any kind of nulls , if you even had two. If you had three or four it 's  Yeah.


Though  All sorts of interesting things you can do with that ,


Though  All sorts of interesting things you can do with that ,

I mean , not only can you do microphone arrays , but you can do all sorts of um multi - band as well.


I mean , not only can you do microphone arrays , but you can do all sorts of um multi - band as well.


I still like my rug on the wall idea , so if anybody patents that , then


I still like my rug on the wall idea , so if anybody patents that , then

Well , you could have strips that you stick to your clothing.


Well , you could have strips that you stick to your clothing.


In terms of the research  th research , it 's really  it 's whatever the person who is doing the research wants to do.


In terms of the research  th research , it 's really  it 's whatever the person who is doing the research wants to do.

So if  if Jose is interested in that , that 's great. But if  if he 's not , that 's great too.


So if  if Jose is interested in that , that 's great. But if  if he 's not , that 's great too.


So if  if Jose is interested in that , that 's great. But if  if he 's not , that 's great too.

Yeah. Um , I  i I  i I would actually kind of like us to wind it down , see if we can still get to the end of the , uh , birthdays thing there.


Yeah. Um , I  i I  i I would actually kind of like us to wind it down , see if we can still get to the end of the , uh , birthdays thing there.


Yeah. Um , I  i I  i I would actually kind of like us to wind it down , see if we can still get to the end of the , uh , birthdays thing there.

Well , I had a couple things that I did wanna bring out.


Well , I had a couple things that I did wanna bring out.


Well , I had a couple things that I did wanna bring out.

One is , do we need to sign new  these again ?


Well , I had a couple things that I did wanna bring out.

One is , do we need to sign new  these again ?

Well , it 's slightly different. So I  I would say it would be a good idea.


One is , do we need to sign new  these again ?

Well , it 's slightly different. So I  I would say it would be a good idea.


Well , it 's slightly different. So I  I would say it would be a good idea.


Oh , this morning we didn't sign anything cuz we said that if anybody had signed it already , we didn't have to.


Oh , this morning we didn't sign anything cuz we said that if anybody had signed it already , we didn't have to.

Yeah , I  I should 've checked with Jane first , but the ch the form has changed.


Oh , this morning we didn't sign anything cuz we said that if anybody had signed it already , we didn't have to.

Yeah , I  I should 've checked with Jane first , but the ch the form has changed.

So we may wanna have everyone sign the new form.


Yeah , I  I should 've checked with Jane first , but the ch the form has changed.

So we may wanna have everyone sign the new form.


So we may wanna have everyone sign the new form.


So we may wanna have everyone sign the new form.

Um , I had some things I wanted to talk about with the thresholding stuff I 'm doing.


Um , I had some things I wanted to talk about with the thresholding stuff I 'm doing.


Um , I had some things I wanted to talk about with the thresholding stuff I 'm doing.

But , if we 're in a hurry , we can put that off. Um and then also anonymity , how we want to anonymize the data. Uh.


Um , I had some things I wanted to talk about with the thresholding stuff I 'm doing.

But , if we 're in a hurry , we can put that off. Um and then also anonymity , how we want to anonymize the data. Uh.

Well , should I  I mean I have some results to present , but I mean I guess we won't have time to do that this time. But it seems like um the anonymization is uh , is also something that we might wanna discuss in greater length.


But , if we 're in a hurry , we can put that off. Um and then also anonymity , how we want to anonymize the data. Uh.

Well , should I  I mean I have some results to present , but I mean I guess we won't have time to do that this time. But it seems like um the anonymization is uh , is also something that we might wanna discuss in greater length.


But , if we 're in a hurry , we can put that off. Um and then also anonymity , how we want to anonymize the data. Uh.

Well , should I  I mean I have some results to present , but I mean I guess we won't have time to do that this time. But it seems like um the anonymization is uh , is also something that we might wanna discuss in greater length.

If  if we 're about to wind down , I think  what I would prefer is that we uh , delay the anonymization thing till next week , and I would like to present the results that I have on the overlaps.


Well , should I  I mean I have some results to present , but I mean I guess we won't have time to do that this time. But it seems like um the anonymization is uh , is also something that we might wanna discuss in greater length.

If  if we 're about to wind down , I think  what I would prefer is that we uh , delay the anonymization thing till next week , and I would like to present the results that I have on the overlaps.

We still have to do this , too , right ?


If  if we 're about to wind down , I think  what I would prefer is that we uh , delay the anonymization thing till next week , and I would like to present the results that I have on the overlaps.

We still have to do this , too , right ?


We still have to do this , too , right ?


Well , why don't we  Uh , so @ @ OK. @ @  It sounds like u uh , there were  there were a couple technical things people would like to talk about. Why don't we just take a couple minutes to  to briefly  do them , and then  and then  and then  and then  and then we


Well , why don't we  Uh , so @ @ OK. @ @  It sounds like u uh , there were  there were a couple technical things people would like to talk about. Why don't we just take a couple minutes to  to briefly  do them , and then  and then  and then  and then  and then we

I 'd  Oh , I 'd prefer to have more time for my results. e Could I do that next week maybe ?


I 'd  Oh , I 'd prefer to have more time for my results. e Could I do that next week maybe ?


And I think the anonymization , if y if you want to proceed with that now , I just think that that 's  that 's a discussion which also n really deserves a lo a  you know , more that just a minute.


And I think the anonymization , if y if you want to proceed with that now , I just think that that 's  that 's a discussion which also n really deserves a lo a  you know , more that just a minute.

I really do think that , because you raised a couple of possibilities yourself , you and I have discussed it previously , and there are different ways that people approach it , e and I think we should


I really do think that , because you raised a couple of possibilities yourself , you and I have discussed it previously , and there are different ways that people approach it , e and I think we should

Alright. We 're  we 're just  We 're getting enough data now that I 'd sort of like to do it now , before I get overwhelmed with  once we decide how to do it


Alright. We 're  we 're just  We 're getting enough data now that I 'd sort of like to do it now , before I get overwhelmed with  once we decide how to do it

It 's just  Yeah. OK. I  I 'll give you the short version , but I do think it 's an issue that we can't resolve in five minutes.


It 's just  Yeah. OK. I  I 'll give you the short version , but I do think it 's an issue that we can't resolve in five minutes.


It 's just  Yeah. OK. I  I 'll give you the short version , but I do think it 's an issue that we can't resolve in five minutes.

OK , so  the  the short thing is um , we have uh , tape recording uh , uh , sorry , digitized recor recordings. Those we won't be able to change. If someone says " Hey , Roger so - and - so ".


OK , so  the  the short thing is um , we have uh , tape recording uh , uh , sorry , digitized recor recordings. Those we won't be able to change. If someone says " Hey , Roger so - and - so ".

So that 's gonna stay that person 's name.


So that 's gonna stay that person 's name.

Now , in terms of like the transcript , the question becomes what symbol are you gonna put in there for everybody 's name , and whether you 're gonna put it in the text where he says " Hey Roger " or are we gonna put that person 's anonymized name in instead ?


So that 's gonna stay that person 's name.

Now , in terms of like the transcript , the question becomes what symbol are you gonna put in there for everybody 's name , and whether you 're gonna put it in the text where he says " Hey Roger " or are we gonna put that person 's anonymized name in instead ?

No , because then that would give you a mapping , and you don't wanna have a mapping.


Now , in terms of like the transcript , the question becomes what symbol are you gonna put in there for everybody 's name , and whether you 're gonna put it in the text where he says " Hey Roger " or are we gonna put that person 's anonymized name in instead ?

No , because then that would give you a mapping , and you don't wanna have a mapping.

OK , so first decision is , we 're gonna anonymize the same name for the speaker identifier and also in the text whenever the speaker 's name is mentioned.


No , because then that would give you a mapping , and you don't wanna have a mapping.

OK , so first decision is , we 're gonna anonymize the same name for the speaker identifier and also in the text whenever the speaker 's name is mentioned.

No. Because that would give you a mapping between the speaker 's real name and the tag we 're using , and we don't want


OK , so first decision is , we 're gonna anonymize the same name for the speaker identifier and also in the text whenever the speaker 's name is mentioned.

No. Because that would give you a mapping between the speaker 's real name and the tag we 're using , and we don't want

I  I don't think you understood what I  what I said.


No. Because that would give you a mapping between the speaker 's real name and the tag we 're using , and we don't want

I  I don't think you understood what I  what I said.


No. Because that would give you a mapping between the speaker 's real name and the tag we 're using , and we don't want

I  I don't think you understood what I  what I said.

So  uh , so in  within the context of an utterance , someone says " So , Roger , what do you think ? " OK. Then , uh , it seems to me that  Well , maybe I  uh it seems to me that if you change the name , the transcript 's gonna disagree with the audio , and you won't be able to use that.


I  I don't think you understood what I  what I said.

So  uh , so in  within the context of an utterance , someone says " So , Roger , what do you think ? " OK. Then , uh , it seems to me that  Well , maybe I  uh it seems to me that if you change the name , the transcript 's gonna disagree with the audio , and you won't be able to use that.


So  uh , so in  within the context of an utterance , someone says " So , Roger , what do you think ? " OK. Then , uh , it seems to me that  Well , maybe I  uh it seems to me that if you change the name , the transcript 's gonna disagree with the audio , and you won't be able to use that.

We don't  we wanna  we ha we want the transcript to be " Roger ".


We don't  we wanna  we ha we want the transcript to be " Roger ".

Because if we made the  the transcript be the tag that we 're using for Roger , someone who had the transcript and the audio would then have a mapping between the anonymized name and the real name , and we wanna avoid that.


We don't  we wanna  we ha we want the transcript to be " Roger ".

Because if we made the  the transcript be the tag that we 're using for Roger , someone who had the transcript and the audio would then have a mapping between the anonymized name and the real name , and we wanna avoid that.

OK , well , but then there 's this issue of if we 're gonna use this for a discourse type of thing , then  and , you know , Liz was mentioning stuff in a previous meeting about gaze direction and who 's  who 's the addressee and all , then to have " Roger " be the thing in the utterance and then actually have the speaker identifier who was " Roger " be " Frank " , that 's going to be really confusing and make it pretty much useless for discourse analysis.


Because if we made the  the transcript be the tag that we 're using for Roger , someone who had the transcript and the audio would then have a mapping between the anonymized name and the real name , and we wanna avoid that.

OK , well , but then there 's this issue of if we 're gonna use this for a discourse type of thing , then  and , you know , Liz was mentioning stuff in a previous meeting about gaze direction and who 's  who 's the addressee and all , then to have " Roger " be the thing in the utterance and then actually have the speaker identifier who was " Roger " be " Frank " , that 's going to be really confusing and make it pretty much useless for discourse analysis.


Because if we made the  the transcript be the tag that we 're using for Roger , someone who had the transcript and the audio would then have a mapping between the anonymized name and the real name , and we wanna avoid that.

OK , well , but then there 's this issue of if we 're gonna use this for a discourse type of thing , then  and , you know , Liz was mentioning stuff in a previous meeting about gaze direction and who 's  who 's the addressee and all , then to have " Roger " be the thing in the utterance and then actually have the speaker identifier who was " Roger " be " Frank " , that 's going to be really confusing and make it pretty much useless for discourse analysis.

Now , if you want to , you know , I mean , in some cases , I  I  I know that Susan Ervin - Tripp in some of hers , uh , actually did do uh , um , a filter of the s signal where the person 's name was mentioned , except


OK , well , but then there 's this issue of if we 're gonna use this for a discourse type of thing , then  and , you know , Liz was mentioning stuff in a previous meeting about gaze direction and who 's  who 's the addressee and all , then to have " Roger " be the thing in the utterance and then actually have the speaker identifier who was " Roger " be " Frank " , that 's going to be really confusing and make it pretty much useless for discourse analysis.

Now , if you want to , you know , I mean , in some cases , I  I  I know that Susan Ervin - Tripp in some of hers , uh , actually did do uh , um , a filter of the s signal where the person 's name was mentioned , except

Yeah Yeah , once you get to the publication you can certainly do that.


Now , if you want to , you know , I mean , in some cases , I  I  I know that Susan Ervin - Tripp in some of hers , uh , actually did do uh , um , a filter of the s signal where the person 's name was mentioned , except

Yeah Yeah , once you get to the publication you can certainly do that.

And  and I  cer and I  So , I mean , the question then becomes one level back. Um , how important is it for a person to be identified by first name versus full name ? Well , on the one hand , uh , it 's not a full identity , we 're taking all these precautions , um and they 'll be taking precautions , which are probably even the more important ones , to  they 'll be reviewing the transcripts , to see if there 's something they don't like   OK. So , maybe , uh , maybe that 's enough protection. On the other hand , this is a small  this is a small pool , and people who say things about topic X e who are researchers and well - known in the field , they 'll be identifiable and simply from the  from the first name. However , taking one step further back , they 'd be identifiable anyway , even if we changed all the names.


Yeah Yeah , once you get to the publication you can certainly do that.

And  and I  cer and I  So , I mean , the question then becomes one level back. Um , how important is it for a person to be identified by first name versus full name ? Well , on the one hand , uh , it 's not a full identity , we 're taking all these precautions , um and they 'll be taking precautions , which are probably even the more important ones , to  they 'll be reviewing the transcripts , to see if there 's something they don't like   OK. So , maybe , uh , maybe that 's enough protection. On the other hand , this is a small  this is a small pool , and people who say things about topic X e who are researchers and well - known in the field , they 'll be identifiable and simply from the  from the first name. However , taking one step further back , they 'd be identifiable anyway , even if we changed all the names.


And  and I  cer and I  So , I mean , the question then becomes one level back. Um , how important is it for a person to be identified by first name versus full name ? Well , on the one hand , uh , it 's not a full identity , we 're taking all these precautions , um and they 'll be taking precautions , which are probably even the more important ones , to  they 'll be reviewing the transcripts , to see if there 's something they don't like   OK. So , maybe , uh , maybe that 's enough protection. On the other hand , this is a small  this is a small pool , and people who say things about topic X e who are researchers and well - known in the field , they 'll be identifiable and simply from the  from the first name. However , taking one step further back , they 'd be identifiable anyway , even if we changed all the names.


Now , in terms of like  so I  I did some results , which I 'll report on n next time , which do mention individual speakers by name.


Now , in terms of like  so I  I did some results , which I 'll report on n next time , which do mention individual speakers by name.

Now , there , the Human Subjects Committee is very precise. You don't wanna mention subjects by name in published reports. Now , it would be very possible for me to take those data put them in a  in a study , and just change everybody 's name for the purpose of the publication. And someone who looked


Now , in terms of like  so I  I did some results , which I 'll report on n next time , which do mention individual speakers by name.

Now , there , the Human Subjects Committee is very precise. You don't wanna mention subjects by name in published reports. Now , it would be very possible for me to take those data put them in a  in a study , and just change everybody 's name for the purpose of the publication. And someone who looked

You can go , you know , uh , " Z "  uh , for instance.


Now , there , the Human Subjects Committee is very precise. You don't wanna mention subjects by name in published reports. Now , it would be very possible for me to take those data put them in a  in a study , and just change everybody 's name for the purpose of the publication. And someone who looked

You can go , you know , uh , " Z "  uh , for instance.


Now , there , the Human Subjects Committee is very precise. You don't wanna mention subjects by name in published reports. Now , it would be very possible for me to take those data put them in a  in a study , and just change everybody 's name for the purpose of the publication. And someone who looked

You can go , you know , uh , " Z "  uh , for instance.

Uh. Um , yeah , I mean , t it doesn't  I mean , I 'm not knowledgeable about this , but it certainly doesn't bother me to have someone 's first name in  in the  in the transcript.


You can go , you know , uh , " Z "  uh , for instance.

Uh. Um , yeah , I mean , t it doesn't  I mean , I 'm not knowledgeable about this , but it certainly doesn't bother me to have someone 's first name in  in the  in the transcript.


Uh. Um , yeah , I mean , t it doesn't  I mean , I 'm not knowledgeable about this , but it certainly doesn't bother me to have someone 's first name in  in the  in the transcript.


Uh. Um , yeah , I mean , t it doesn't  I mean , I 'm not knowledgeable about this , but it certainly doesn't bother me to have someone 's first name in  in the  in the transcript.

Uh , I think  you don't wanna have their full name to be uh , listed.


Uh , I think  you don't wanna have their full name to be uh , listed.

Yeah , and  and in the form that they sign , it does say " your first name may arise in the course of the meetings ".


Yeah , and  and in the form that they sign , it does say " your first name may arise in the course of the meetings ".


Yeah. So again , th the issue is if you 're tracking discourse things , you know , if someone says , uh , uh , " Frank said this " and then you wanna connect it to something later , you 've gotta have this part where that 's " Frank colon ".


Yeah , and  and  you know , even more i i uh , immediate than that just being able to , uh  Well , it just seems like to track  track from one utterance to the next utterance who 's speaking and who 's speaking to whom , cuz that can be important.


Yeah , and  and  you know , even more i i uh , immediate than that just being able to , uh  Well , it just seems like to track  track from one utterance to the next utterance who 's speaking and who 's speaking to whom , cuz that can be important.

S i You know , " You raised the point , So - and - so " , it 's be kind of nice to be able to know who " you " was.


S i You know , " You raised the point , So - and - so " , it 's be kind of nice to be able to know who " you " was.


And ac  and actually you remember  furthermore , you remember last time we had this discussion of how you know , I was sort of avoiding mentioning people 's names ,


And ac  and actually you remember  furthermore , you remember last time we had this discussion of how you know , I was sort of avoiding mentioning people 's names ,

and  and it was  and we made the decision that was kind of artificial. Well , I mean , if we 're going to step in after the fact and change people 's names in the transcript , we 've basically done something one step worse.


And ac  and actually you remember  furthermore , you remember last time we had this discussion of how you know , I was sort of avoiding mentioning people 's names ,

and  and it was  and we made the decision that was kind of artificial. Well , I mean , if we 're going to step in after the fact and change people 's names in the transcript , we 've basically done something one step worse.

Yep. Well , I would sug I  I  don't wanna change the names in the transcript ,


and  and it was  and we made the decision that was kind of artificial. Well , I mean , if we 're going to step in after the fact and change people 's names in the transcript , we 've basically done something one step worse.

Yep. Well , I would sug I  I  don't wanna change the names in the transcript ,


Yep. Well , I would sug I  I  don't wanna change the names in the transcript ,

but that 's because I 'm focused so much on the acoustics instead of on the discourse , and so I think that 's a really good point.


but that 's because I 'm focused so much on the acoustics instead of on the discourse , and so I think that 's a really good point.


but that 's because I 'm focused so much on the acoustics instead of on the discourse , and so I think that 's a really good point.

You 're right , this is going to require more thought.


You 're right , this is going to require more thought.

Yeah. L let me just back up this to make a  a brief comment about the , uh , what we 're covering in the meeting. Uh I realize when you 're doing this that uh  I mean , I didn't realize that you had a bunch of things that you wanted to talk about. Uh , and so , uh  and so I was proceeding some somewhat at random , frankly. So I think what would be helpful would be uh , i and I 'll  I 'll mention this to  to Liz and Andreas too , that um , before the meeting if anybody could send me , any  any , uh , uh , agenda items that they were interested in and I 'll  I 'll take the role of organizing them uh , into  into the agenda ,


You 're right , this is going to require more thought.

Yeah. L let me just back up this to make a  a brief comment about the , uh , what we 're covering in the meeting. Uh I realize when you 're doing this that uh  I mean , I didn't realize that you had a bunch of things that you wanted to talk about. Uh , and so , uh  and so I was proceeding some somewhat at random , frankly. So I think what would be helpful would be uh , i and I 'll  I 'll mention this to  to Liz and Andreas too , that um , before the meeting if anybody could send me , any  any , uh , uh , agenda items that they were interested in and I 'll  I 'll take the role of organizing them uh , into  into the agenda ,

but I 'd be very pleased to have everyone else  completely make up the agenda. I 've no desire to   to make it up , but if  if no one 's told me things , then I 'm just proceeding from my  my guesses , and  and uh , and i ye yeah , I  I 'm sorry it ended up with your out your time to  I mean , I 'm just always asking Jose what he 's doing , you know , and   and so it 's   There 's uh , there 's obviously other things going on.


Yeah. L let me just back up this to make a  a brief comment about the , uh , what we 're covering in the meeting. Uh I realize when you 're doing this that uh  I mean , I didn't realize that you had a bunch of things that you wanted to talk about. Uh , and so , uh  and so I was proceeding some somewhat at random , frankly. So I think what would be helpful would be uh , i and I 'll  I 'll mention this to  to Liz and Andreas too , that um , before the meeting if anybody could send me , any  any , uh , uh , agenda items that they were interested in and I 'll  I 'll take the role of organizing them uh , into  into the agenda ,

but I 'd be very pleased to have everyone else  completely make up the agenda. I 've no desire to   to make it up , but if  if no one 's told me things , then I 'm just proceeding from my  my guesses , and  and uh , and i ye yeah , I  I 'm sorry it ended up with your out your time to  I mean , I 'm just always asking Jose what he 's doing , you know , and   and so it 's   There 's uh , there 's obviously other things going on.


but I 'd be very pleased to have everyone else  completely make up the agenda. I 've no desire to   to make it up , but if  if no one 's told me things , then I 'm just proceeding from my  my guesses , and  and uh , and i ye yeah , I  I 'm sorry it ended up with your out your time to  I mean , I 'm just always asking Jose what he 's doing , you know , and   and so it 's   There 's uh , there 's obviously other things going on.

Oh , it 's not a problem. Not a problem. Yeah. I just  I just couldn't do it in two minutes.


but I 'd be very pleased to have everyone else  completely make up the agenda. I 've no desire to   to make it up , but if  if no one 's told me things , then I 'm just proceeding from my  my guesses , and  and uh , and i ye yeah , I  I 'm sorry it ended up with your out your time to  I mean , I 'm just always asking Jose what he 's doing , you know , and   and so it 's   There 's uh , there 's obviously other things going on.

Oh , it 's not a problem. Not a problem. Yeah. I just  I just couldn't do it in two minutes.

How will we  how would the person who 's doing the transcript even know who they 're talking about ? Do you know what I 'm saying ?


Oh , it 's not a problem. Not a problem. Yeah. I just  I just couldn't do it in two minutes.

How will we  how would the person who 's doing the transcript even know who they 're talking about ? Do you know what I 'm saying ?

" The person who 's doing the transcript  "  The IBM people ?


Oh , it 's not a problem. Not a problem. Yeah. I just  I just couldn't do it in two minutes.

How will we  how would the person who 's doing the transcript even know who they 're talking about ? Do you know what I 'm saying ?

" The person who 's doing the transcript  "  The IBM people ?

Yeah. I mean , so so  how is that information gonna get labeled anyway ?


How will we  how would the person who 's doing the transcript even know who they 're talking about ? Do you know what I 'm saying ?

" The person who 's doing the transcript  "  The IBM people ?

Yeah. I mean , so so  how is that information gonna get labeled anyway ?

How do you mean , who  what they 're  who they 're talking about ?


" The person who 's doing the transcript  "  The IBM people ?

Yeah. I mean , so so  how is that information gonna get labeled anyway ?

How do you mean , who  what they 're  who they 're talking about ?

I mean , so if I 'm saying in a meeting , " oh and Bob , by the way , wanted  wanted to do so - and - so " ,


Yeah. I mean , so so  how is that information gonna get labeled anyway ?

How do you mean , who  what they 're  who they 're talking about ?

I mean , so if I 'm saying in a meeting , " oh and Bob , by the way , wanted  wanted to do so - and - so " ,


How do you mean , who  what they 're  who they 're talking about ?

I mean , so if I 'm saying in a meeting , " oh and Bob , by the way , wanted  wanted to do so - and - so " ,

They 're just gonna write " Bob " on it or do @ @


I mean , so if I 'm saying in a meeting , " oh and Bob , by the way , wanted  wanted to do so - and - so " ,

They 're just gonna write " Bob " on it or do @ @

if you 're doing  Yeah , @ @ they 're just gonna write " Bob ". And so. If you 're  if you 're doing discourse analysis ,


They 're just gonna write " Bob " on it or do @ @

if you 're doing  Yeah , @ @ they 're just gonna write " Bob ". And so. If you 're  if you 're doing discourse analysis ,

They won't be able to change it themselves.


They 're just gonna write " Bob " on it or do @ @

if you 're doing  Yeah , @ @ they 're just gonna write " Bob ". And so. If you 're  if you 're doing discourse analysis ,

They won't be able to change it themselves.

What ar how are they gonna do any of this ?


if you 're doing  Yeah , @ @ they 're just gonna write " Bob ". And so. If you 're  if you 're doing discourse analysis ,

They won't be able to change it themselves.

What ar how are they gonna do any of this ?


They won't be able to change it themselves.

What ar how are they gonna do any of this ?

Well , I  I 'm betting we 're gonna have huge chunks that are just totally un untranscribable by them.


What ar how are they gonna do any of this ?

Well , I  I 'm betting we 're gonna have huge chunks that are just totally un untranscribable by them.

I mean , they 're gonna say speaker - one , or speaker - two or speaker I mean I  I


Well , I  I 'm betting we 're gonna have huge chunks that are just totally un untranscribable by them.

I mean , they 're gonna say speaker - one , or speaker - two or speaker I mean I  I


I mean , they 're gonna say speaker - one , or speaker - two or speaker I mean I  I

Well , the current one they don't do speaker identity.


Well , the current one they don't do speaker identity.

because in NaturallySpeaking , or , excuse me , in ViaVoice , it 's only one person. and so in their current conventions there are no multiple speaker conventions.


Well , the current one they don't do speaker identity.

because in NaturallySpeaking , or , excuse me , in ViaVoice , it 's only one person. and so in their current conventions there are no multiple speaker conventions.

So it may just be one long transcript of a bunch of words.


because in NaturallySpeaking , or , excuse me , in ViaVoice , it 's only one person. and so in their current conventions there are no multiple speaker conventions.

So it may just be one long transcript of a bunch of words.

Oh.  I think that  My understanding from Yen Is it Yen - Ching ? Is that how you pronounce her name ?


So it may just be one long transcript of a bunch of words.

Oh.  I think that  My understanding from Yen Is it Yen - Ching ? Is that how you pronounce her name ?


Oh.  I think that  My understanding from Yen Is it Yen - Ching ? Is that how you pronounce her name ?


was that um , they will  that they will adopt the  part of the conventions that  that we discussed , where they put speaker identifier down. But , you know , h they won't know these people , so I think it 's  Well , they 'll  they 'll adopt some convention but we haven't specified to them  So they 'll do something like speaker - one , speaker - two , is what I bet , but I 'm betting there 'll be huge variations in the accuracy of  of their labeling the speakers. We 'll have to review the transcripts in any case.


was that um , they will  that they will adopt the  part of the conventions that  that we discussed , where they put speaker identifier down. But , you know , h they won't know these people , so I think it 's  Well , they 'll  they 'll adopt some convention but we haven't specified to them  So they 'll do something like speaker - one , speaker - two , is what I bet , but I 'm betting there 'll be huge variations in the accuracy of  of their labeling the speakers. We 'll have to review the transcripts in any case.

And it  and it may very well be  I mean , since they 're not going to sit there and  and  and worry ab about , uh , it being the same speaker , they may very well go the  eh the  the first se the first time it changes to another speaker , that 'll be speaker - two.


was that um , they will  that they will adopt the  part of the conventions that  that we discussed , where they put speaker identifier down. But , you know , h they won't know these people , so I think it 's  Well , they 'll  they 'll adopt some convention but we haven't specified to them  So they 'll do something like speaker - one , speaker - two , is what I bet , but I 'm betting there 'll be huge variations in the accuracy of  of their labeling the speakers. We 'll have to review the transcripts in any case.

And it  and it may very well be  I mean , since they 're not going to sit there and  and  and worry ab about , uh , it being the same speaker , they may very well go the  eh the  the first se the first time it changes to another speaker , that 'll be speaker - two.

And the next time it 'll be speaker - three even if it 's actually speaker - one.


And it  and it may very well be  I mean , since they 're not going to sit there and  and  and worry ab about , uh , it being the same speaker , they may very well go the  eh the  the first se the first time it changes to another speaker , that 'll be speaker - two.

And the next time it 'll be speaker - three even if it 's actually speaker - one.

You know  Uh - huh. You know , that would be a very practical solution on their part.


And the next time it 'll be speaker - three even if it 's actually speaker - one.

You know  Uh - huh. You know , that would be a very practical solution on their part.


You know  Uh - huh. You know , that would be a very practical solution on their part.

And  and  but then we would need to label it.


And  and  but then we would need to label it.

Yeah we  we can probably regenerate it pretty easily from the close - talking mikes.


Yeah we  we can probably regenerate it pretty easily from the close - talking mikes.

Yes , I was thinking , the temp the time values of when it changes.


Yes , I was thinking , the temp the time values of when it changes.


Yes , I was thinking , the temp the time values of when it changes.

So. But I mean that doesn't  This doesn't answer the  the question.


So. But I mean that doesn't  This doesn't answer the  the question.


The p It 's a good point , " which  what do you do for discourse tracking ? "


The p It 's a good point , " which  what do you do for discourse tracking ? "

Because y y you don't know to know , eh  you don't need to know what i what is the iden identification of the  of the speakers. You only eh want to know


The p It 's a good point , " which  what do you do for discourse tracking ? "

Because y y you don't know to know , eh  you don't need to know what i what is the iden identification of the  of the speakers. You only eh want to know

Hmm. For  for acoustics you don't but for discourse you do.


Because y y you don't know to know , eh  you don't need to know what i what is the iden identification of the  of the speakers. You only eh want to know

Hmm. For  for acoustics you don't but for discourse you do.


Hmm. For  for acoustics you don't but for discourse you do.

Yeah. If  if  if  if someone says , uh , " what  what is Jose doing ? " and then Jose says something , you need to know that that was Jose responding.


Yeah. If  if  if  if someone says , uh , " what  what is Jose doing ? " and then Jose says something , you need to know that that was Jose responding.

Yeah , yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah , yeah , yeah. Yeah. Yeah ,


Yeah , yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah , yeah , yeah. Yeah. Yeah ,


Unless we adopt a different set of norms which is to not id to make a point of not identifying people by name , which then leads you to be more contextually ex explicit.


Unless we adopt a different set of norms which is to not id to make a point of not identifying people by name , which then leads you to be more contextually ex explicit.

Well , people are very flexible. You know ? I mean , so when we did this las last week , I felt that you know , now , Andreas may , uh , @ @  uh , he  he  i sometimes people think of something else at the same time and they miss a sentence or something , and  and because he missed something , then he missed the r the initial introduction of who we were talking about , and was  was unable to do the tracking.


Well , people are very flexible. You know ? I mean , so when we did this las last week , I felt that you know , now , Andreas may , uh , @ @  uh , he  he  i sometimes people think of something else at the same time and they miss a sentence or something , and  and because he missed something , then he missed the r the initial introduction of who we were talking about , and was  was unable to do the tracking.

But I felt like most of us were doing the tracking and knew who we were talking about and we just weren't mentioning the name. So , people are really flexible.


But I felt like most of us were doing the tracking and knew who we were talking about and we just weren't mentioning the name. So , people are really flexible.

But , you know , like , at the beginning of this meeting  Or , you I think said ,  you know , or s Liz , said something about um , uh , " is Mari gonna use the equipment ? " I mean , how would you say that ?


But , you know , like , at the beginning of this meeting  Or , you I think said ,  you know , or s Liz , said something about um , uh , " is Mari gonna use the equipment ? " I mean , how would you say that ?

I mean , you have to really think , you know , about what you 're saying bef


I mean , you have to really think , you know , about what you 're saying bef


I mean , you have to really think , you know , about what you 're saying bef

" Is you know who up in you know where ? "


" Is you know who up in you know where ? "


I think it would be really hard if we made a policy where we didn't say names , plus we 'd have to tell everybody else.


I think it would be really hard if we made a policy where we didn't say names , plus we 'd have to tell everybody else.

Yeah , darn ! I mean , what I was gonna say is that the other option is that we could bleep out the names.


Yeah , darn ! I mean , what I was gonna say is that the other option is that we could bleep out the names.

but then , again that kills your discourse analysis.


but then , again that kills your discourse analysis.


I  I think the  I think  I don't know , my own two cents worth is that you don't do anything about what 's in the recordings , you only anonymize to the extent you can , the speakers have signed the forms and all.


I  I think the  I think  I don't know , my own two cents worth is that you don't do anything about what 's in the recordings , you only anonymize to the extent you can , the speakers have signed the forms and all.

Well , but that but that  as I said , that  that  that works great for the acoustics , but it  it hurts you a lot for trying to do discourse.


Well , but that but that  as I said , that  that  that works great for the acoustics , but it  it hurts you a lot for trying to do discourse.


Because you don't have a map of who 's talking versus  their  name that they 're being referred to.


I thought we were gonna get it labelled speaker - one , speaker - two


I thought we were gonna get it labelled speaker - one , speaker - two

Sure but , h then you have to know that Jose is speaker - one and


I thought we were gonna get it labelled speaker - one , speaker - two

Sure but , h then you have to know that Jose is speaker - one and

OK , so suppose someone says , " well I don't know if I really heard what  uh , what Jose said. "


Sure but , h then you have to know that Jose is speaker - one and

OK , so suppose someone says , " well I don't know if I really heard what  uh , what Jose said. "


OK , so suppose someone says , " well I don't know if I really heard what  uh , what Jose said. "


And part of your learning about the dialogue is Jose responding to it. But it doesn't say " Jose " , it says " speaker - five ".


Oh , I see , you wanna associated the word " Jose " in the dialogue with the fact that then he responded.


Oh , I see , you wanna associated the word " Jose " in the dialogue with the fact that then he responded.

Someone who 's doing discourse would wanna do that.


Oh , I see , you wanna associated the word " Jose " in the dialogue with the fact that then he responded.

Someone who 's doing discourse would wanna do that.

And so , if we pass out the data to someone else , and it says " speaker - five " there , we also have to pass them this little guide that says that speaker - five is Jose ,


Someone who 's doing discourse would wanna do that.

And so , if we pass out the data to someone else , and it says " speaker - five " there , we also have to pass them this little guide that says that speaker - five is Jose ,


Someone who 's doing discourse would wanna do that.

And so , if we pass out the data to someone else , and it says " speaker - five " there , we also have to pass them this little guide that says that speaker - five is Jose ,

and if were gonna do that we might as well  give them " Jose "  say it was " Jose ".


And so , if we pass out the data to someone else , and it says " speaker - five " there , we also have to pass them this little guide that says that speaker - five is Jose ,

and if were gonna do that we might as well  give them " Jose "  say it was " Jose ".


and if were gonna do that we might as well  give them " Jose "  say it was " Jose ".


Now , I  I think that we have these two phases in the  in the data , which is the one which is o our use , University of Washington 's use , IBM , SRI.


Now , I  I think that we have these two phases in the  in the data , which is the one which is o our use , University of Washington 's use , IBM , SRI.

And within that , it may be that it 's sufficient to not uh change the  to not incorporate anonymization yet , but always , always in the publications we have to.


And within that , it may be that it 's sufficient to not uh change the  to not incorporate anonymization yet , but always , always in the publications we have to.

And I think also , when we take it that next step and distribute it to the world , we have to. But I  but I don that 's  that 's a long way from now and  and it 's a matter of  between now and then of d of deciding how


And I think also , when we take it that next step and distribute it to the world , we have to. But I  but I don that 's  that 's a long way from now and  and it 's a matter of  between now and then of d of deciding how

i i it  You know , it may be s that we we 'll need to do something like actually X out that part of the um  the audio , and just put in brackets " speaker - one ".


i i it  You know , it may be s that we we 'll need to do something like actually X out that part of the um  the audio , and just put in brackets " speaker - one ".


i i it  You know , it may be s that we we 'll need to do something like actually X out that part of the um  the audio , and just put in brackets " speaker - one ".

You know , what we could do also is have more than one version of release.


You know , what we could do also is have more than one version of release.


You know , what we could do also is have more than one version of release.

One that 's public and one  one that requires licensing. And so the licensed one would  w we could  it would be a sticky limitation.


One that 's public and one  one that requires licensing. And so the licensed one would  w we could  it would be a sticky limitation.


One that 's public and one  one that requires licensing. And so the licensed one would  w we could  it would be a sticky limitation.

You know , like  Well , we can talk about that later.


One that 's public and one  one that requires licensing. And so the licensed one would  w we could  it would be a sticky limitation.

You know , like  Well , we can talk about that later.

I think that 's risky. I think that the public should be the same. I think that when we do that world release , it should be the same.


You know , like  Well , we can talk about that later.

I think that 's risky. I think that the public should be the same. I think that when we do that world release , it should be the same.


I think that 's risky. I think that the public should be the same. I think that when we do that world release , it should be the same.

I  I think that we  we have a  need to have a consistent licensing policy of some sort , and


I  I think that we  we have a  need to have a consistent licensing policy of some sort , and

But I also think a consistent licensing policy is important.


I  I think that we  we have a  need to have a consistent licensing policy of some sort , and

But I also think a consistent licensing policy is important.

Well , one thing to to take into consideration is w are there any um  For example , the people who are funding this work , they want this work to get out and be useful for discourse.


But I also think a consistent licensing policy is important.

Well , one thing to to take into consideration is w are there any um  For example , the people who are funding this work , they want this work to get out and be useful for discourse.

If we all of a sudden do this and then release it to the public and it 's not longer useful for discourse , you know


Well , one thing to to take into consideration is w are there any um  For example , the people who are funding this work , they want this work to get out and be useful for discourse.

If we all of a sudden do this and then release it to the public and it 's not longer useful for discourse , you know

Well , depending on how much editing we do , you might be able to  still have it useful. because for discourse you don't need the audio. Right ? So you could bleep out the names in the audio.


If we all of a sudden do this and then release it to the public and it 's not longer useful for discourse , you know

Well , depending on how much editing we do , you might be able to  still have it useful. because for discourse you don't need the audio. Right ? So you could bleep out the names in the audio.


If we all of a sudden do this and then release it to the public and it 's not longer useful for discourse , you know

Well , depending on how much editing we do , you might be able to  still have it useful. because for discourse you don't need the audio. Right ? So you could bleep out the names in the audio.

and use the anonymized one through the transcript.


Well , depending on how much editing we do , you might be able to  still have it useful. because for discourse you don't need the audio. Right ? So you could bleep out the names in the audio.

and use the anonymized one through the transcript.


and use the anonymized one through the transcript.


and use the anonymized one through the transcript.

Excuse me. We  we do need audio for discourse.


Excuse me. We  we do need audio for discourse.

But , n excuse me , but you could bleep out just the names.


Excuse me. We  we do need audio for discourse.

But , n excuse me , but you could bleep out just the names.

She  No , but she 's saying , from the argument before , she wants to be able to say if someone said " Jose " in their  in their thing , and then connect to so to what he said later , then you need it.


Excuse me. We  we do need audio for discourse.

But , n excuse me , but you could bleep out just the names.

She  No , but she 's saying , from the argument before , she wants to be able to say if someone said " Jose " in their  in their thing , and then connect to so to what he said later , then you need it.

Right. But in the transcript , you could say , everywhere they said " Jose " that you could replace it with " speaker - seven ".


But , n excuse me , but you could bleep out just the names.

She  No , but she 's saying , from the argument before , she wants to be able to say if someone said " Jose " in their  in their thing , and then connect to so to what he said later , then you need it.

Right. But in the transcript , you could say , everywhere they said " Jose " that you could replace it with " speaker - seven ".


She  No , but she 's saying , from the argument before , she wants to be able to say if someone said " Jose " in their  in their thing , and then connect to so to what he said later , then you need it.

Right. But in the transcript , you could say , everywhere they said " Jose " that you could replace it with " speaker - seven ".

Yeah. But I   I also wanna say that people


Right. But in the transcript , you could say , everywhere they said " Jose " that you could replace it with " speaker - seven ".

Yeah. But I   I also wanna say that people

And then it wouldn't meet  match the audio anymore. But it would be still useful for the


Yeah. But I   I also wanna say that people

And then it wouldn't meet  match the audio anymore. But it would be still useful for the


Yeah. But I   I also wanna say that people

And then it wouldn't meet  match the audio anymore. But it would be still useful for the

But if both of those are publically available


And then it wouldn't meet  match the audio anymore. But it would be still useful for the

But if both of those are publically available


But if both of those are publically available


But if both of those are publically available

And th and the other thing is if  if  if Liz were here ,  what she might say is that she wants to look if things that cut across between the audio and the dialogue ,


And th and the other thing is if  if  if Liz were here ,  what she might say is that she wants to look if things that cut across between the audio and the dialogue ,

Well , you see ? So , it 's complicated.


Well , you see ? So , it 's complicated.


I think we have to think about w @ @  how. I think that this can't be decided today.


I think we have to think about w @ @  how. I think that this can't be decided today.

But it 's g but I think it was good to introduce the thing and we can do it next time.


But it 's g but I think it was good to introduce the thing and we can do it next time.

I didn't think  when I wrote you that email I wasn't thinking it was a big can of worms , but I guess it is.


I didn't think  when I wrote you that email I wasn't thinking it was a big can of worms , but I guess it is.


Well it  Discourse , you know  Also I wanted to make the point that  that discourse is gonna be more than just looking at a transcript.


Well it  Discourse , you know  Also I wanted to make the point that  that discourse is gonna be more than just looking at a transcript.

It 's gonna be looking at a t You know , and prosod prosodic stuff is involved , and that means you 're going to be listening to the audio , and then you come directly into this  confronting this problem.


Well it  Discourse , you know  Also I wanted to make the point that  that discourse is gonna be more than just looking at a transcript.

It 's gonna be looking at a t You know , and prosod prosodic stuff is involved , and that means you 're going to be listening to the audio , and then you come directly into this  confronting this problem.

Maybe we should just not allow anybody to do research on discourse ,


It 's gonna be looking at a t You know , and prosod prosodic stuff is involved , and that means you 're going to be listening to the audio , and then you come directly into this  confronting this problem.

Maybe we should just not allow anybody to do research on discourse ,


It 's gonna be looking at a t You know , and prosod prosodic stuff is involved , and that means you 're going to be listening to the audio , and then you come directly into this  confronting this problem.

Maybe we should just not allow anybody to do research on discourse ,

and then , we wouldn't have to worry about it.


Maybe we should just not allow anybody to do research on discourse ,

and then , we wouldn't have to worry about it.


and then , we wouldn't have to worry about it.

Yeah , we should just market it to non - English speaking countries.


Yeah , we should just market it to non - English speaking countries.

Uh , maybe we should only have meetings between people who don't know one another and who are also amnesiacs who don't know their own name.


Uh , maybe we should only have meetings between people who don't know one another and who are also amnesiacs who don't know their own name.

We could have little labels. I  I  I wanna introduce my Reservoir Dogs solution again , which is everyone has like " Mister White " , " Mister Pink " ,  " Mister Blue ".


We could have little labels. I  I  I wanna introduce my Reservoir Dogs solution again , which is everyone has like " Mister White " , " Mister Pink " ,  " Mister Blue ".

Yeah. Did you read the paper a few years ago where they were reversing the syllables ? They were di they they had the utterances. and they would extract out the syllables and they would play them backwards.


We could have little labels. I  I  I wanna introduce my Reservoir Dogs solution again , which is everyone has like " Mister White " , " Mister Pink " ,  " Mister Blue ".

Yeah. Did you read the paper a few years ago where they were reversing the syllables ? They were di they they had the utterances. and they would extract out the syllables and they would play them backwards.

But  so , the syllables were in the same order , with respect to each other , but the acous


Yeah. Did you read the paper a few years ago where they were reversing the syllables ? They were di they they had the utterances. and they would extract out the syllables and they would play them backwards.

But  so , the syllables were in the same order , with respect to each other , but the acous

Everything was in the same order , but they were  the individual syll  syllables were played backwards. And you could listen to it ,  and it would sound the same.


But  so , the syllables were in the same order , with respect to each other , but the acous

Everything was in the same order , but they were  the individual syll  syllables were played backwards. And you could listen to it ,  and it would sound the same.

People had no difficulty in interpreting it. So what we need is something that 's the reverse , that a speech recognizer works exactly the same on it but people can't understand it.


Everything was in the same order , but they were  the individual syll  syllables were played backwards. And you could listen to it ,  and it would sound the same.

People had no difficulty in interpreting it. So what we need is something that 's the reverse , that a speech recognizer works exactly the same on it but people can't understand it.

Oh , well that 's  there 's an easy way to do that. Jus - jus just play it all backwards.


People had no difficulty in interpreting it. So what we need is something that 's the reverse , that a speech recognizer works exactly the same on it but people can't understand it.

Oh , well that 's  there 's an easy way to do that. Jus - jus just play it all backwards.

Oh right. The speech recognizer 's totally symmetric , isn't it.


People had no difficulty in interpreting it. So what we need is something that 's the reverse , that a speech recognizer works exactly the same on it but people can't understand it.

Oh , well that 's  there 's an easy way to do that. Jus - jus just play it all backwards.

Oh right. The speech recognizer 's totally symmetric , isn't it.

What , what does the speech recognizer care ?


Oh , well that 's  there 's an easy way to do that. Jus - jus just play it all backwards.

Oh right. The speech recognizer 's totally symmetric , isn't it.

What , what does the speech recognizer care ?


Oh right. The speech recognizer 's totally symmetric , isn't it.

What , what does the speech recognizer care ?


What , what does the speech recognizer care ?

Oh , do we do digits ? Or  ? What do we do ?


Oh , do we do digits ? Or  ? What do we do ?


Oh , do we do digits ? Or  ? What do we do ?

Let 's do digits. Yeah , we  we  we already missed the party.


Let 's do digits. Yeah , we  we  we already missed the party.


I think it would be fun sometime to read them with different intonations. like as if you were talking like , " nine eight six eight seven ? "


I think it would be fun sometime to read them with different intonations. like as if you were talking like , " nine eight six eight seven ? "

Well , you know , in the  in the one I transcribed , I did find a couple instances   I found one instance of contrastive stress , where it was like the string had a  li So it was like " nine eight two four , nine nine two four ".


I think it would be fun sometime to read them with different intonations. like as if you were talking like , " nine eight six eight seven ? "

Well , you know , in the  in the one I transcribed , I did find a couple instances   I found one instance of contrastive stress , where it was like the string had a  li So it was like " nine eight two four , nine nine two four ".

Oh , really. So they were like looking ahead ,


Well , you know , in the  in the one I transcribed , I did find a couple instances   I found one instance of contrastive stress , where it was like the string had a  li So it was like " nine eight two four , nine nine two four ".

Oh , really. So they were like looking ahead ,


Oh , really. So they were like looking ahead ,

Well , they differed. I mean , at that  that session I did feel like they did it more as sentences. But , um , sometimes people do it as phone numbers.  I mean , I 've  I  am sort of interested in  in  And sometimes , you know , I s And I  I never know. When I do it , I  I ask myself what I 'm doing each time.


Well , they differed. I mean , at that  that session I did feel like they did it more as sentences. But , um , sometimes people do it as phone numbers.  I mean , I 've  I  am sort of interested in  in  And sometimes , you know , I s And I  I never know. When I do it , I  I ask myself what I 'm doing each time.


Well , they differed. I mean , at that  that session I did feel like they did it more as sentences. But , um , sometimes people do it as phone numbers.  I mean , I 've  I  am sort of interested in  in  And sometimes , you know , I s And I  I never know. When I do it , I  I ask myself what I 'm doing each time.

Well , I was thinking that it must get kind of boring for the people who are gonna have to transcribe this


Well , I was thinking that it must get kind of boring for the people who are gonna have to transcribe this


Well , I was thinking that it must get kind of boring for the people who are gonna have to transcribe this

They may as well throw in some interesting intonations.


They may as well throw in some interesting intonations.


That 's very funny. I haven't heard that one.


That 's very funny. I haven't heard that one.

We have the transcript. We have the actual numbers they 're reading , so we 're not necessarily depending on that. OK , I 'm gonna go off.


I'll wait until you're all um hooked up.


Welcome back everybody , hope you've had fun.


Welcome back everybody , hope you've had fun.

Right um this is our conceptual design meeting ,


Right um this is our conceptual design meeting ,

um  I think we're slightly ahead of ourselves from the last meeting ,


um  I think we're slightly ahead of ourselves from the last meeting ,

Yeah , yeah I was getting that impression as well.


Yeah , yeah I was getting that impression as well.


Yeah , yeah I was getting that impression as well.

This is where we talk about um properties , materials , user-interface and trend-watching.


This is where we talk about um properties , materials , user-interface and trend-watching.


This is where we talk about um properties , materials , user-interface and trend-watching.

So I think we've touched on a few things to do with that already , but we'll just go over it. Um the minutes from the last time. Um we had a couple of um changes in our plans in that we couldn't use teletext , it wasn't gonna be a control for everything um and that we had to incorporate the image of the company into it somehow. Um we have decided on a  leaving out the voice recognition , we've decided on there being a flip design and um a different shape from what's normal. We were thinking a shell , but something along those lines , just a different shape from what's normal , um. You were going to look into the rechargeable batteries


So I think we've touched on a few things to do with that already , but we'll just go over it. Um the minutes from the last time. Um we had a couple of um changes in our plans in that we couldn't use teletext , it wasn't gonna be a control for everything um and that we had to incorporate the image of the company into it somehow. Um we have decided on a  leaving out the voice recognition , we've decided on there being a flip design and um a different shape from what's normal. We were thinking a shell , but something along those lines , just a different shape from what's normal , um. You were going to look into the rechargeable batteries


So I think we've touched on a few things to do with that already , but we'll just go over it. Um the minutes from the last time. Um we had a couple of um changes in our plans in that we couldn't use teletext , it wasn't gonna be a control for everything um and that we had to incorporate the image of the company into it somehow. Um we have decided on a  leaving out the voice recognition , we've decided on there being a flip design and um a different shape from what's normal. We were thinking a shell , but something along those lines , just a different shape from what's normal , um. You were going to look into the rechargeable batteries

and we were gonna think about the port and an alarm for getting it lost ,


and we were gonna think about the port and an alarm for getting it lost ,


and we were gonna think about the port and an alarm for getting it lost ,

um and our market was going to be young , business , kind of range.


um and our market was going to be young , business , kind of range.


um and our market was going to be young , business , kind of range.

Okay , so shall we start with the first presentation ?


Okay , so shall we start with the first presentation ?


Thank you. There we go. Okay um so we decided on our market and so this feedback from the marketing department is really about trend watching. Um  the methods we used to decide on uh current trends and so on , market trends , were that we did our traditional  uh our usual market research study uh with a hundred subjects and the the general feedback from them is that the most im uh w I'm sorry I'm slightly tongue-tied after lunch ,


Thank you. There we go. Okay um so we decided on our market and so this feedback from the marketing department is really about trend watching. Um  the methods we used to decide on uh current trends and so on , market trends , were that we did our traditional  uh our usual market research study uh with a hundred subjects and the the general feedback from them is that the most im uh w I'm sorry I'm slightly tongue-tied after lunch ,

sorry Project Manager . Um we decided on the most important aspect i uh required in a remote control device and we'll come to that later. So that was one of the first things we did. Also with our company um being forerunners in uh putting fashion into technology , we also looked at a fashion update um using our consultants on fashion and design in Paris and Milan.  Uh so the general findings from that was uh in the market trends the most important aspect for remote controls were people want a fancy look and feel , rather than the the current functional look and feel of remote controls. They also also want a remote control to be technologically innovative , and of course , as we predicted , that it should be easy to use. Now I should point out that the first of those findings , fancy look and feel , is the most important , is twice as important as the second , technologically innovative , which is in turn twice as important as being easy to use. So possibly that the feature that we put first is actually third is still important , but it's third in order of preference for the the subject group we looked at.


sorry Project Manager . Um we decided on the most important aspect i uh required in a remote control device and we'll come to that later. So that was one of the first things we did. Also with our company um being forerunners in uh putting fashion into technology , we also looked at a fashion update um using our consultants on fashion and design in Paris and Milan.  Uh so the general findings from that was uh in the market trends the most important aspect for remote controls were people want a fancy look and feel , rather than the the current functional look and feel of remote controls. They also also want a remote control to be technologically innovative , and of course , as we predicted , that it should be easy to use. Now I should point out that the first of those findings , fancy look and feel , is the most important , is twice as important as the second , technologically innovative , which is in turn twice as important as being easy to use. So possibly that the feature that we put first is actually third is still important , but it's third in order of preference for the the subject group we looked at.

Okay , um , now the fashion update which relates to very personal preferences among our subject group , um we found from our um consultants in Paris and Milan who des attended all the design and fashion fairs there , that fruit and vegetables are going to be the theme for clothes , shoes and furniture. So should we be thinking of using something like that in our remote control design too ? There also seems to be um a trend towards a spongy feel to materials , uh again in contrast to last year. So a lot of interesting feedback there , both from our market research departments and from our people in Paris and Milan. Be interesting to see what our design people make of that.


Okay , um , now the fashion update which relates to very personal preferences among our subject group , um we found from our um consultants in Paris and Milan who des attended all the design and fashion fairs there , that fruit and vegetables are going to be the theme for clothes , shoes and furniture. So should we be thinking of using something like that in our remote control design too ? There also seems to be um a trend towards a spongy feel to materials , uh again in contrast to last year. So a lot of interesting feedback there , both from our market research departments and from our people in Paris and Milan. Be interesting to see what our design people make of that.


let's start from the inside and work our way out.


let's start from the inside and work our way out.

Unless anyone has any questions about that ?


Unless anyone has any questions about that ?


especially if you do them on too tight and you can't get the leverage on them to undo them.


Okay. Um this is uh all about the design of the actual components and the availability of the components we have in stock at the moment. Okay , first uh the  Into the method. The the main idea of the whole thing is just so you sh you just press buttons and it should activate things on the T_V_ and we discussed last meeting that it should be easy to find. Um also in this study I've looked into the availability of some of the materials , 'cause some of the things that we looked at last time aren't  un unfortunately aren't available.


Okay. Um this is uh all about the design of the actual components and the availability of the components we have in stock at the moment. Okay , first uh the  Into the method. The the main idea of the whole thing is just so you sh you just press buttons and it should activate things on the T_V_ and we discussed last meeting that it should be easy to find. Um also in this study I've looked into the availability of some of the materials , 'cause some of the things that we looked at last time aren't  un unfortunately aren't available.

Um , findings , I've got my nice little picture there. This is uh the chip called the T_A_ double one eight three five which is what's used in pretty much every remote control 'cause it sends out standard signals , based on your input and um it's pretty much used for all all T_V_ remotes at the moment.


Um , findings , I've got my nice little picture there. This is uh the chip called the T_A_ double one eight three five which is what's used in pretty much every remote control 'cause it sends out standard signals , based on your input and um it's pretty much used for all all T_V_ remotes at the moment.

Um and then we we're loo looking into battery options.


Um , findings , I've got my nice little picture there. This is uh the chip called the T_A_ double one eight three five which is what's used in pretty much every remote control 'cause it sends out standard signals , based on your input and um it's pretty much used for all all T_V_ remotes at the moment.

Um and then we we're loo looking into battery options.

There's um actually no rechargeable option available , so we  I saw the um the standard double A_ and triple A_ which we thought were a bit bit too bulky at the moment , dynamo charging , I thought that that might be a bit silly to be to be honest ,


Um and then we we're loo looking into battery options.

There's um actually no rechargeable option available , so we  I saw the um the standard double A_ and triple A_ which we thought were a bit bit too bulky at the moment , dynamo charging , I thought that that might be a bit silly to be to be honest ,


Um and then we we're loo looking into battery options.

There's um actually no rechargeable option available , so we  I saw the um the standard double A_ and triple A_ which we thought were a bit bit too bulky at the moment , dynamo charging , I thought that that might be a bit silly to be to be honest ,

people won't  it's it's basically like wind-up radio.


There's um actually no rechargeable option available , so we  I saw the um the standard double A_ and triple A_ which we thought were a bit bit too bulky at the moment , dynamo charging , I thought that that might be a bit silly to be to be honest ,

people won't  it's it's basically like wind-up radio.


people won't  it's it's basically like wind-up radio.

So you wind up your remote control before you use it.


people won't  it's it's basically like wind-up radio.

So you wind up your remote control before you use it.

How   what kind of  how l long can you get out of that ,


So you wind up your remote control before you use it.

How   what kind of  how l long can you get out of that ,


So you wind up your remote control before you use it.

How   what kind of  how l long can you get out of that ,

I mean can you pick it up and then wind it for two minutes and then that's it for the night ? Or


How   what kind of  how l long can you get out of that ,

I mean can you pick it up and then wind it for two minutes and then that's it for the night ? Or

You  Yeah , yeah , oh yeah I presu you wouldn't have to wind it for very long , but I don't I don't think it's really sort of necessary when you th you think of the next two options , like the the solar charging , 'cause most people have the light on in the room anyway so they could get  when when you got T_V_.


I mean can you pick it up and then wind it for two minutes and then that's it for the night ? Or

You  Yeah , yeah , oh yeah I presu you wouldn't have to wind it for very long , but I don't I don't think it's really sort of necessary when you th you think of the next two options , like the the solar charging , 'cause most people have the light on in the room anyway so they could get  when when you got T_V_.


I mean can you pick it up and then wind it for two minutes and then that's it for the night ? Or

You  Yeah , yeah , oh yeah I presu you wouldn't have to wind it for very long , but I don't I don't think it's really sort of necessary when you th you think of the next two options , like the the solar charging , 'cause most people have the light on in the room anyway so they could get  when when you got T_V_.

Does does light charge as as sunlight does ?


You  Yeah , yeah , oh yeah I presu you wouldn't have to wind it for very long , but I don't I don't think it's really sort of necessary when you th you think of the next two options , like the the solar charging , 'cause most people have the light on in the room anyway so they could get  when when you got T_V_.

Does does light charge as as sunlight does ?


Does does light charge as as sunlight does ?


Yep. Regarding those sizes , which one you think will be light because we we have to take into consideration size also , so maybe a standard triple A_ might take lesser space or  and dynamo might take more space.


Yep. Regarding those sizes , which one you think will be light because we we have to take into consideration size also , so maybe a standard triple A_ might take lesser space or  and dynamo might take more space.

Yeah it would the d yeah the dynamo would take more space 'cause you actually need a physical sort of handle to wind up.


Yep. Regarding those sizes , which one you think will be light because we we have to take into consideration size also , so maybe a standard triple A_ might take lesser space or  and dynamo might take more space.

Yeah it would the d yeah the dynamo would take more space 'cause you actually need a physical sort of handle to wind up.

I'm pretty sure that solar is from the sun.


Yeah it would the d yeah the dynamo would take more space 'cause you actually need a physical sort of handle to wind up.

I'm pretty sure that solar is from the sun.

Uh , I don't think it counts electric lights


I'm pretty sure that solar is from the sun.

Uh , I don't think it counts electric lights


Uh , I don't think it counts electric lights

no , but I mean not many  you don't want to limit your market.


no , but I mean not many  you don't want to limit your market.

I mean people who live in basement flats there's not that many people , but there are people.


I mean people who live in basement flats there's not that many people , but there are people.


different parts of the world too , if we're if we're marketing internationally.


different parts of the world too , if we're if we're marketing internationally.

and most people most people also watch T_V_ in the in the night anyway.


and most people most people also watch T_V_ in the in the night anyway.


and most people most people also watch T_V_ in the in the night anyway.

Mm , but then it would be charging through the day , I think the point is that it charges through the day and then you've got it charged for the evening.


and most people most people also watch T_V_ in the in the night anyway.

Mm , but then it would be charging through the day , I think the point is that it charges through the day and then you've got it charged for the evening.

But I I think I think the the next one's the best anyway.


Mm , but then it would be charging through the day , I think the point is that it charges through the day and then you've got it charged for the evening.

But I I think I think the the next one's the best anyway.


Mm , but then it would be charging through the day , I think the point is that it charges through the day and then you've got it charged for the evening.

But I I think I think the the next one's the best anyway.

The the kinetic charging which is like you get it in r you get it in wrist watches


But I I think I think the the next one's the best anyway.

The the kinetic charging which is like you get it in r you get it in wrist watches


The the kinetic charging which is like you get it in r you get it in wrist watches

and you d you don't even notice it. I mean the amount the amount of probably moving around you'd be doing all the time would would charge it up , I don't think you'd ever need to actually physically start shaking it up to make it work.


The the kinetic charging which is like you get it in r you get it in wrist watches

and you d you don't even notice it. I mean the amount the amount of probably moving around you'd be doing all the time would would charge it up , I don't think you'd ever need to actually physically start shaking it up to make it work.

And are these like uh  what are the life of the kinetic battery , it like it runs for long time ?