and , um , yesterdayday  there was this uh  uh I thought that the other branch would just approve it , but now there 's actually a little back sliding to people who  who approved it got flak from there , eh anyway. So , um  Oh ! I have to tell you a wonderful story about this , OK ? And then we 'll go. So , I  it turns out I wound up having lunch today with a guy named Tom Kalil. KILL  KALIL. And , uh , he now works at Berkeley. In fact he 's hired to run a lot of CITRIS , even though we don't have the money they  So they 've been hiring people right and left , so , uh , they think the money 's coming. So  and he was , I think , the chief staffer to Clinton on technology matters. He was in the White House , I don't remember what he was saying. A anyway , like that. And , is now doing all the politics for CITRIS , but also , has a uh , a lot of interest in uh , actually doing things for society , so digital divide and stuff like that. So that 's s interesting to me but maybe not to you. But the really interesting thing was , he st he s he s said something about , you know I 'm interested in things that have high social multiplier , something that is of great social value. He said , " for example " , this was his only example , " if you had a adult literacy program that was as good as an individual tutor , and as compelling as a video game , then that would have a huge social impact ". I said , " Oh great ! That 's a good problem to work on. " Anyway. So it was nice that uh , he 's got this view , of A , that 's what you should try to do , and B , uh , language would be a good way to do it.

So that 's  So anyway , that 's the end of the story.


and , um , yesterdayday  there was this uh  uh I thought that the other branch would just approve it , but now there 's actually a little back sliding to people who  who approved it got flak from there , eh anyway. So , um  Oh ! I have to tell you a wonderful story about this , OK ? And then we 'll go. So , I  it turns out I wound up having lunch today with a guy named Tom Kalil. KILL  KALIL. And , uh , he now works at Berkeley. In fact he 's hired to run a lot of CITRIS , even though we don't have the money they  So they 've been hiring people right and left , so , uh , they think the money 's coming. So  and he was , I think , the chief staffer to Clinton on technology matters. He was in the White House , I don't remember what he was saying. A anyway , like that. And , is now doing all the politics for CITRIS , but also , has a uh , a lot of interest in uh , actually doing things for society , so digital divide and stuff like that. So that 's s interesting to me but maybe not to you. But the really interesting thing was , he st he s he s said something about , you know I 'm interested in things that have high social multiplier , something that is of great social value. He said , " for example " , this was his only example , " if you had a adult literacy program that was as good as an individual tutor , and as compelling as a video game , then that would have a huge social impact ". I said , " Oh great ! That 's a good problem to work on. " Anyway. So it was nice that uh , he 's got this view , of A , that 's what you should try to do , and B , uh , language would be a good way to do it.

So that 's  So anyway , that 's the end of the story.

But for adults and not for the children.


So that 's  So anyway , that 's the end of the story.

But for adults and not for the children.

This was  Yeah. I didn't push him on the ch on the child thing ,


But for adults and not for the children.

This was  Yeah. I didn't push him on the ch on the child thing ,

but , uh , you know , a again , if  if you  if you


This was  Yeah. I didn't push him on the ch on the child thing ,

but , uh , you know , a again , if  if you  if you


but , uh , you know , a again , if  if you  if you

um , and this was  this was literacy , which actually is somewhat different problem.


um , and this was  this was literacy , which actually is somewhat different problem.

Maybe easier. I don't know. So this is reading , rather than teaching  Another project we started on , and  and didn't get funded for was , uh , to try to build an automatic tutoring program , for kids whose first language wasn't English. Which is like half the school population in California. Something like that ,


Maybe easier. I don't know. So this is reading , rather than teaching  Another project we started on , and  and didn't get funded for was , uh , to try to build an automatic tutoring program , for kids whose first language wasn't English. Which is like half the school population in California. Something like that ,

isn't it ? Yeah. So , enormous problem in California , and the idea was if we 're so smart about language understanding and speech understanding , couldn't we build  uh , programs that would be tutors for the kids. We think we could. Anyway. So  so  But this is a slightly different problem ,


isn't it ? Yeah. So , enormous problem in California , and the idea was if we 're so smart about language understanding and speech understanding , couldn't we build  uh , programs that would be tutors for the kids. We think we could. Anyway. So  so  But this is a slightly different problem ,

and um , I know none of us have the spare time to look at it right now , but it i it 's  it 's interesting and I may um , talk to him some more about is em somebody already doing this , and stuff like that. So anyway , that was  that was today 's little story.


and um , I know none of us have the spare time to look at it right now , but it i it 's  it 's interesting and I may um , talk to him some more about is em somebody already doing this , and stuff like that. So anyway , that was  that was today 's little story.

OK. So I  I did manage to get  pull my head out of the sling by sidetracking into CITRIS ,


OK. So I  I did manage to get  pull my head out of the sling by sidetracking into CITRIS ,

but uh or  a temporarily putting it out of the sling


but uh or  a temporarily putting it out of the sling

but , I  I 'll volunteer to put it right back in by stating that I am n uh among some other things in the process of writing up stuff that we have been discussing at our daily meetings ,


but , I  I 'll volunteer to put it right back in by stating that I am n uh among some other things in the process of writing up stuff that we have been discussing at our daily meetings ,

and also revising , thanks for all the comments , the c the original construal proposal. And , if I put one and one together , I may end up with a number that 's greater than one and that I  I can potentially present once you get back.


and also revising , thanks for all the comments , the c the original construal proposal. And , if I put one and one together , I may end up with a number that 's greater than one and that I  I can potentially present once you get back.


and also revising , thanks for all the comments , the c the original construal proposal. And , if I put one and one together , I may end up with a number that 's greater than one and that I  I can potentially present once you get back.

Nnn.  s sometimes , you know the sum is not uh less than the


Nnn.  s sometimes , you know the sum is not uh less than the


Nnn.  s sometimes , you know the sum is not uh less than the

Right. Right. Anyway. Yeah , so  OK , so that 'd be great , but I 'd  I think it 's  it 's time again , right ?


Right. Right. Anyway. Yeah , so  OK , so that 'd be great , but I 'd  I think it 's  it 's time again , right ?


Right. Right. Anyway. Yeah , so  OK , so that 'd be great , but I 'd  I think it 's  it 's time again , right ?

But um , and hopefully all sidetracking um , other things will have disappeared , soon.


But um , and hopefully all sidetracking um , other things will have disappeared , soon.


Um , so I wanted to discuss digits briefly , but that won't take too long.


Um , so I wanted to discuss digits briefly , but that won't take too long.

Oh good. Right. OK , agenda items , Uh , we have digits , What else we got ?


Oh good. Right. OK , agenda items , Uh , we have digits , What else we got ?

Um , do we wanna say something about the , an update of the , uh , transcript ?


Um , do we wanna say something about the , an update of the , uh , transcript ?


Um , do we wanna say something about the , an update of the , uh , transcript ?

And I guess that includes some  the filtering for the , the ASI refs , too.


And I guess that includes some  the filtering for the , the ASI refs , too.


And I guess that includes some  the filtering for the , the ASI refs , too.

For the references that we need to go from the  the  fancy transcripts to the sort of  brain - dead.


For the references that we need to go from the  the  fancy transcripts to the sort of  brain - dead.

It 'll  it 'll be  basically it 'll be a re - cap of a meeting that we had jointly this morning.


It 'll  it 'll be  basically it 'll be a re - cap of a meeting that we had jointly this morning.


Got it. Anything else more pressing than those things ? So  So , why don't we just do those. You said yours was brief , so


Got it. Anything else more pressing than those things ? So  So , why don't we just do those. You said yours was brief , so

OK. OK well , the , w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we 're almost done. The digits goes up to  about four thousand. Um , and so , uh , we probably will be done with the TI - digits in , um , another couple weeks. um , depending on how many we read each time. So there were a bunch that we skipped. You know , someone fills out the form and then they 're not at the meeting and so it 's blank. Um , but those are almost all filled in as well. And so , once we 're  it 's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually start working with this data.


Got it. Anything else more pressing than those things ? So  So , why don't we just do those. You said yours was brief , so

OK. OK well , the , w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we 're almost done. The digits goes up to  about four thousand. Um , and so , uh , we probably will be done with the TI - digits in , um , another couple weeks. um , depending on how many we read each time. So there were a bunch that we skipped. You know , someone fills out the form and then they 're not at the meeting and so it 's blank. Um , but those are almost all filled in as well. And so , once we 're  it 's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually start working with this data.

So we 'll have a corpus that 's the size of TI - digits ?


Got it. Anything else more pressing than those things ? So  So , why don't we just do those. You said yours was brief , so

OK. OK well , the , w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we 're almost done. The digits goes up to  about four thousand. Um , and so , uh , we probably will be done with the TI - digits in , um , another couple weeks. um , depending on how many we read each time. So there were a bunch that we skipped. You know , someone fills out the form and then they 're not at the meeting and so it 's blank. Um , but those are almost all filled in as well. And so , once we 're  it 's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually start working with this data.

So we 'll have a corpus that 's the size of TI - digits ?

And so  One particular test set of TI - digits.


OK. OK well , the , w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we 're almost done. The digits goes up to  about four thousand. Um , and so , uh , we probably will be done with the TI - digits in , um , another couple weeks. um , depending on how many we read each time. So there were a bunch that we skipped. You know , someone fills out the form and then they 're not at the meeting and so it 's blank. Um , but those are almost all filled in as well. And so , once we 're  it 's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually start working with this data.

So we 'll have a corpus that 's the size of TI - digits ?

And so  One particular test set of TI - digits.


So we 'll have a corpus that 's the size of TI - digits ?

And so  One particular test set of TI - digits.

So , I  I extracted , Ther - there was a file sitting around which people have used here as a test set. It had been randomized and so on


And so  One particular test set of TI - digits.

So , I  I extracted , Ther - there was a file sitting around which people have used here as a test set. It had been randomized and so on

and that 's just what I used to generate the order. of these particular ones.


So , I  I extracted , Ther - there was a file sitting around which people have used here as a test set. It had been randomized and so on

and that 's just what I used to generate the order. of these particular ones.


So , I  I extracted , Ther - there was a file sitting around which people have used here as a test set. It had been randomized and so on

and that 's just what I used to generate the order. of these particular ones.

So , I 'm impressed by what we could do , Is take the standard training set for TI - digits , train up with whatever , you know , great features we think we have , uh for instance , and then test on uh this test set.


and that 's just what I used to generate the order. of these particular ones.

So , I 'm impressed by what we could do , Is take the standard training set for TI - digits , train up with whatever , you know , great features we think we have , uh for instance , and then test on uh this test set.


So , I 'm impressed by what we could do , Is take the standard training set for TI - digits , train up with whatever , you know , great features we think we have , uh for instance , and then test on uh this test set.

And presumably uh it should do reasonably well on that , and then , presumably , we should go to the distant mike , and it should do poorly.


And presumably uh it should do reasonably well on that , and then , presumably , we should go to the distant mike , and it should do poorly.

And then we should get really smart over the next year or two , and it  that should get better.


And presumably uh it should do reasonably well on that , and then , presumably , we should go to the distant mike , and it should do poorly.

And then we should get really smart over the next year or two , and it  that should get better.

Right. And inc increase it by one or two percent , yeah.


And then we should get really smart over the next year or two , and it  that should get better.

Right. And inc increase it by one or two percent , yeah.


And then we should get really smart over the next year or two , and it  that should get better.

Right. And inc increase it by one or two percent , yeah.

Um , but , in order to do that we need to extract out the actual digits.


Right. And inc increase it by one or two percent , yeah.

Um , but , in order to do that we need to extract out the actual digits.


Um , but , in order to do that we need to extract out the actual digits.

Um , so that  the reason it 's not just a transcript is that there 're false starts , and misreads , and miscues and things like that. And so I have a set of scripts and X Waves where you just select the portion , hit R , um , it tells you what the next one should be , and you just look for that. You know , so it  it 'll put on the screen , " The next set is six nine , nine two two ". And you find that , and , hit the key and it records it in a file in a particular format.


Um , so that  the reason it 's not just a transcript is that there 're false starts , and misreads , and miscues and things like that. And so I have a set of scripts and X Waves where you just select the portion , hit R , um , it tells you what the next one should be , and you just look for that. You know , so it  it 'll put on the screen , " The next set is six nine , nine two two ". And you find that , and , hit the key and it records it in a file in a particular format.

And so the  the question is , should we have the transcribers do that or should we just do it ? Well , some of us. I 've been do I 've done , eight meetings , something like that , just by hand. Just myself , rather. So it will not take long. Um


And so the  the question is , should we have the transcribers do that or should we just do it ? Well , some of us. I 've been do I 've done , eight meetings , something like that , just by hand. Just myself , rather. So it will not take long. Um

My feeling is that we discussed this right before coffee and I think it 's a  it 's a fine idea partly because , um , it 's not un unrelated to their present skill set , but it will add , for them , an extra dimension , it might be an interesting break for them. And also it is contributing to the , uh , c composition of the transcript cuz we can incorporate those numbers directly and it 'll be a more complete transcript. So I 'm  I think it 's fine , that part.


My feeling is that we discussed this right before coffee and I think it 's a  it 's a fine idea partly because , um , it 's not un unrelated to their present skill set , but it will add , for them , an extra dimension , it might be an interesting break for them. And also it is contributing to the , uh , c composition of the transcript cuz we can incorporate those numbers directly and it 'll be a more complete transcript. So I 'm  I think it 's fine , that part.

So you think it 's fine to have the transcribers do it ?


So you think it 's fine to have the transcribers do it ?


So you think it 's fine to have the transcribers do it ?

There 's one other small bit , which is just entering the information which at s which is at the top of this form , onto the computer , to go along with the  where the digits are recorded automatically.


There 's one other small bit , which is just entering the information which at s which is at the top of this form , onto the computer , to go along with the  where the digits are recorded automatically.


There 's one other small bit , which is just entering the information which at s which is at the top of this form , onto the computer , to go along with the  where the digits are recorded automatically.

And so it 's just , you know , typing in name , times  time , date , and so on. Um , which again either they can do , but it is , you know , firing up an editor , or , again , I can do. Or someone else can do.


And so it 's just , you know , typing in name , times  time , date , and so on. Um , which again either they can do , but it is , you know , firing up an editor , or , again , I can do. Or someone else can do.

And , that , you know , I 'm not , that  that one I 'm not so sure if it 's into the  the , things that , I , wanted to use the hours for , because the , the time that they 'd be spending doing that they wouldn't be able to be putting more words on.


And so it 's just , you know , typing in name , times  time , date , and so on. Um , which again either they can do , but it is , you know , firing up an editor , or , again , I can do. Or someone else can do.

And , that , you know , I 'm not , that  that one I 'm not so sure if it 's into the  the , things that , I , wanted to use the hours for , because the , the time that they 'd be spending doing that they wouldn't be able to be putting more words on.

But that 's really your choice , it 's your


And , that , you know , I 'm not , that  that one I 'm not so sure if it 's into the  the , things that , I , wanted to use the hours for , because the , the time that they 'd be spending doing that they wouldn't be able to be putting more words on.

But that 's really your choice , it 's your

So are these two separate tasks that can happen ? Or do they have to happen at the same time before


But that 's really your choice , it 's your

So are these two separate tasks that can happen ? Or do they have to happen at the same time before

No they don't have  this  you have to enter the data before , you do the second task , but they don't have to happen at the same time.


So are these two separate tasks that can happen ? Or do they have to happen at the same time before

No they don't have  this  you have to enter the data before , you do the second task , but they don't have to happen at the same time.

So it 's  it 's just I have a file whi which has this information on it , and then when you start using my scripts , for extracting the times , it adds the times at the bottom of the file. And so , um , I mean , it 's easy to create the files and leave them blank , and so actually we could do it in either order.


No they don't have  this  you have to enter the data before , you do the second task , but they don't have to happen at the same time.

So it 's  it 's just I have a file whi which has this information on it , and then when you start using my scripts , for extracting the times , it adds the times at the bottom of the file. And so , um , I mean , it 's easy to create the files and leave them blank , and so actually we could do it in either order.


So it 's  it 's just I have a file whi which has this information on it , and then when you start using my scripts , for extracting the times , it adds the times at the bottom of the file. And so , um , I mean , it 's easy to create the files and leave them blank , and so actually we could do it in either order.

Um , it 's  it 's sort of nice to have the same person do it just as a double - check , to make sure you 're entering for the right person. But , either way.


So it 's  it 's just I have a file whi which has this information on it , and then when you start using my scripts , for extracting the times , it adds the times at the bottom of the file. And so , um , I mean , it 's easy to create the files and leave them blank , and so actually we could do it in either order.

Um , it 's  it 's sort of nice to have the same person do it just as a double - check , to make sure you 're entering for the right person. But , either way.

Yeah. Yeah just by way of uh , uh , a uh , order of magnitude , uh , um , we 've been working with this Aurora , uh data set. And , uh , the best score , on the , nicest part of the data , that is , where you 've got training and test set that are basically the same kinds of noise and so forth , uh , is about , uh  I think the best score was something like five percent , uh , error , per digit.


Um , it 's  it 's sort of nice to have the same person do it just as a double - check , to make sure you 're entering for the right person. But , either way.

Yeah. Yeah just by way of uh , uh , a uh , order of magnitude , uh , um , we 've been working with this Aurora , uh data set. And , uh , the best score , on the , nicest part of the data , that is , where you 've got training and test set that are basically the same kinds of noise and so forth , uh , is about , uh  I think the best score was something like five percent , uh , error , per digit.


Yeah. Yeah just by way of uh , uh , a uh , order of magnitude , uh , um , we 've been working with this Aurora , uh data set. And , uh , the best score , on the , nicest part of the data , that is , where you 've got training and test set that are basically the same kinds of noise and so forth , uh , is about , uh  I think the best score was something like five percent , uh , error , per digit.


You 're right. So if you were doing  ten digit , uh , recognition ,  you would really be in trouble. So  So the  The point there , and this is uh car noise uh , uh things , but  but real  real situation ,


You 're right. So if you were doing  ten digit , uh , recognition ,  you would really be in trouble. So  So the  The point there , and this is uh car noise uh , uh things , but  but real  real situation ,

well , " real " , Um , the  uh there 's one microphone that 's close , that they have as  as this sort of thing , close versus distant. Uh but in a car , instead of  instead of having a projector noise it 's  it 's car noise. Uh but it wasn't artificially added to get some  some artificial signal - to - noise ratio. It was just people driving around in a car. So , that 's  that 's an indication , uh that was with , many sites competing , and this was the very best score and so forth , so. More typical numbers like


You 're right. So if you were doing  ten digit , uh , recognition ,  you would really be in trouble. So  So the  The point there , and this is uh car noise uh , uh things , but  but real  real situation ,

well , " real " , Um , the  uh there 's one microphone that 's close , that they have as  as this sort of thing , close versus distant. Uh but in a car , instead of  instead of having a projector noise it 's  it 's car noise. Uh but it wasn't artificially added to get some  some artificial signal - to - noise ratio. It was just people driving around in a car. So , that 's  that 's an indication , uh that was with , many sites competing , and this was the very best score and so forth , so. More typical numbers like

Although the models weren't , that good , right ? I mean , the models are pretty crappy ?


well , " real " , Um , the  uh there 's one microphone that 's close , that they have as  as this sort of thing , close versus distant. Uh but in a car , instead of  instead of having a projector noise it 's  it 's car noise. Uh but it wasn't artificially added to get some  some artificial signal - to - noise ratio. It was just people driving around in a car. So , that 's  that 's an indication , uh that was with , many sites competing , and this was the very best score and so forth , so. More typical numbers like

Although the models weren't , that good , right ? I mean , the models are pretty crappy ?

You 're right. I think that we could have done better on the models , but the thing is that we got  this  this is the kind of typical number , for all of the , uh , uh , things in this task , all of the , um , languages. And so I  I think we 'd probably  the models would be better in some than in others. Um , so , uh. Anyway , just an indication once you get into this kind of realm even if you 're looking at connected digits it can be pretty hard.


Although the models weren't , that good , right ? I mean , the models are pretty crappy ?

You 're right. I think that we could have done better on the models , but the thing is that we got  this  this is the kind of typical number , for all of the , uh , uh , things in this task , all of the , um , languages. And so I  I think we 'd probably  the models would be better in some than in others. Um , so , uh. Anyway , just an indication once you get into this kind of realm even if you 're looking at connected digits it can be pretty hard.

Hmm. It 's gonna be fun to see how we , compare at this. Very exciting. s @ @.


You 're right. I think that we could have done better on the models , but the thing is that we got  this  this is the kind of typical number , for all of the , uh , uh , things in this task , all of the , um , languages. And so I  I think we 'd probably  the models would be better in some than in others. Um , so , uh. Anyway , just an indication once you get into this kind of realm even if you 're looking at connected digits it can be pretty hard.

Hmm. It 's gonna be fun to see how we , compare at this. Very exciting. s @ @.


Hmm. It 's gonna be fun to see how we , compare at this. Very exciting. s @ @.


Hmm. It 's gonna be fun to see how we , compare at this. Very exciting. s @ @.

Well the prosodics are so much different s it 's gonna be , strange. I mean the prosodics are not the same as TI - digits , for example.


Well the prosodics are so much different s it 's gonna be , strange. I mean the prosodics are not the same as TI - digits , for example.


Well the prosodics are so much different s it 's gonna be , strange. I mean the prosodics are not the same as TI - digits , for example.

So I 'm  I 'm not sure how much of effect that will have.


So I 'm  I 'm not sure how much of effect that will have.


So I 'm  I 'm not sure how much of effect that will have.

Um , just what we were talking about with grouping. That with these , the grouping , there 's no grouping at all , and so it 's just  the only sort of discontinuity you have is at the beginning and the end.


Um , just what we were talking about with grouping. That with these , the grouping , there 's no grouping at all , and so it 's just  the only sort of discontinuity you have is at the beginning and the end.

So what are they doing in Aurora , are they reading actual phone numbers ,


Um , just what we were talking about with grouping. That with these , the grouping , there 's no grouping at all , and so it 's just  the only sort of discontinuity you have is at the beginning and the end.

So what are they doing in Aurora , are they reading actual phone numbers ,

Aurora I don't know. I don't know what they do in Aurora.


So what are they doing in Aurora , are they reading actual phone numbers ,

Aurora I don't know. I don't know what they do in Aurora.


Aurora I don't know. I don't know what they do in Aurora.


no , no I mean it 's connected  it 's connected , uh , digits ,


So there 's also the  not just the prosody but the cross  the cross - word modeling is probably quite different.


So there 's also the  not just the prosody but the cross  the cross - word modeling is probably quite different.

But in TI - digits , they 're reading things like zip codes and phone numbers and things like that ,


But in TI - digits , they 're reading things like zip codes and phone numbers and things like that ,


But in TI - digits , they 're reading things like zip codes and phone numbers and things like that ,

so it 's gonna be different. I don't remember. I mean , very good , right ?


so it 's gonna be different. I don't remember. I mean , very good , right ?


so it 's gonna be different. I don't remember. I mean , very good , right ?

One and a half percent , two percent , something like that ?


so it 's gonna be different. I don't remember. I mean , very good , right ?

One and a half percent , two percent , something like that ?

Uh , I th no I think we got under a percent , but it was  but it 's  but I mean. The very best system that I saw in the literature was a point two five percent or something that somebody had at  at Bell Labs , or. Uh , but. But , uh , sort of pulling out all the stops.


One and a half percent , two percent , something like that ?

Uh , I th no I think we got under a percent , but it was  but it 's  but I mean. The very best system that I saw in the literature was a point two five percent or something that somebody had at  at Bell Labs , or. Uh , but. But , uh , sort of pulling out all the stops.


One and a half percent , two percent , something like that ?

Uh , I th no I think we got under a percent , but it was  but it 's  but I mean. The very best system that I saw in the literature was a point two five percent or something that somebody had at  at Bell Labs , or. Uh , but. But , uh , sort of pulling out all the stops.

s @ @. It s strikes me that there are more  each of them is more informative because it 's so , random ,


Uh , I th no I think we got under a percent , but it was  but it 's  but I mean. The very best system that I saw in the literature was a point two five percent or something that somebody had at  at Bell Labs , or. Uh , but. But , uh , sort of pulling out all the stops.

s @ @. It s strikes me that there are more  each of them is more informative because it 's so , random ,


s @ @. It s strikes me that there are more  each of them is more informative because it 's so , random ,


s @ @. It s strikes me that there are more  each of them is more informative because it 's so , random ,

But I think a lot of systems sort of get half a percent , or three - quarters a percent ,


But I think a lot of systems sort of get half a percent , or three - quarters a percent ,


But I think a lot of systems sort of get half a percent , or three - quarters a percent ,

But that  I mean it 's really  it 's  it 's close - talking mikes , no noise , clean signal , just digits , I mean , every everything is good.


But that  I mean it 's really  it 's  it 's close - talking mikes , no noise , clean signal , just digits , I mean , every everything is good.


But that  I mean it 's really  it 's  it 's close - talking mikes , no noise , clean signal , just digits , I mean , every everything is good.

It 's the beginning of time in speech recognition.


It 's the beginning of time in speech recognition.


It 's the beginning of time in speech recognition.

And we 've only recently got it to anywhere near human.


And we 've only recently got it to anywhere near human.

It 's like the , single cell , you know , it 's the beginning of life ,


It 's like the , single cell , you know , it 's the beginning of life ,

And it 's still like an order of magnitude worse than what humans do.


And it 's still like an order of magnitude worse than what humans do.


When  When they 're wide awake , yeah. Um ,


When  When they 're wide awake , yeah. Um ,

after coffee , you 're right. Not after lunch.


When  When they 're wide awake , yeah. Um ,

after coffee , you 're right. Not after lunch.

OK , so , um , what I 'll do then is I 'll go ahead and enter , this data. And then , hand off to Jane , and the transcribers to do the actual extraction of the digits.


after coffee , you 're right. Not after lunch.

OK , so , um , what I 'll do then is I 'll go ahead and enter , this data. And then , hand off to Jane , and the transcribers to do the actual extraction of the digits.

Yeah. Yeah. One question I have that  that I mean , we wouldn't know the answer to now but might , do some guessing , but I was talking before about doing some model modeling of arti uh , uh , marking of articulatory , features , with overlap and so on.


OK , so , um , what I 'll do then is I 'll go ahead and enter , this data. And then , hand off to Jane , and the transcribers to do the actual extraction of the digits.

Yeah. Yeah. One question I have that  that I mean , we wouldn't know the answer to now but might , do some guessing , but I was talking before about doing some model modeling of arti uh , uh , marking of articulatory , features , with overlap and so on.

And , and , um , On some subset. One thought might be to do this uh , on  on the digits , or some piece of the digits. Uh , it 'd be easier , uh , and so forth. The only thing is I 'm a little concerned that maybe the kind of phenomena , in w i i The reason for doing it is because the  the argument is that certainly with conversational speech , the stuff that we 've looked at here before , um , just doing the simple mapping , from , um , the phone , to the corresponding features that you could look up in a book , uh , isn't right. It isn't actually right. In fact there 's these overlapping processes where some voicing some up and then some , you know , some nasality is  comes in here , and so forth. And you do this gross thing saying " Well I guess it 's this phone starting there ". So , uh , that 's the reasoning. But , It could be that when we 're reading digits , because it 's  it 's for such a limited set , that maybe  maybe that phenomenon doesn't occur as much. I don't know. Di - an anybody  ?  Do you have any  ?  Anybody have any opinion about that ,


Yeah. Yeah. One question I have that  that I mean , we wouldn't know the answer to now but might , do some guessing , but I was talking before about doing some model modeling of arti uh , uh , marking of articulatory , features , with overlap and so on.

And , and , um , On some subset. One thought might be to do this uh , on  on the digits , or some piece of the digits. Uh , it 'd be easier , uh , and so forth. The only thing is I 'm a little concerned that maybe the kind of phenomena , in w i i The reason for doing it is because the  the argument is that certainly with conversational speech , the stuff that we 've looked at here before , um , just doing the simple mapping , from , um , the phone , to the corresponding features that you could look up in a book , uh , isn't right. It isn't actually right. In fact there 's these overlapping processes where some voicing some up and then some , you know , some nasality is  comes in here , and so forth. And you do this gross thing saying " Well I guess it 's this phone starting there ". So , uh , that 's the reasoning. But , It could be that when we 're reading digits , because it 's  it 's for such a limited set , that maybe  maybe that phenomenon doesn't occur as much. I don't know. Di - an anybody  ?  Do you have any  ?  Anybody have any opinion about that ,

and that people might articulate more , and you that might end up with more  a closer correspondence.


And , and , um , On some subset. One thought might be to do this uh , on  on the digits , or some piece of the digits. Uh , it 'd be easier , uh , and so forth. The only thing is I 'm a little concerned that maybe the kind of phenomena , in w i i The reason for doing it is because the  the argument is that certainly with conversational speech , the stuff that we 've looked at here before , um , just doing the simple mapping , from , um , the phone , to the corresponding features that you could look up in a book , uh , isn't right. It isn't actually right. In fact there 's these overlapping processes where some voicing some up and then some , you know , some nasality is  comes in here , and so forth. And you do this gross thing saying " Well I guess it 's this phone starting there ". So , uh , that 's the reasoning. But , It could be that when we 're reading digits , because it 's  it 's for such a limited set , that maybe  maybe that phenomenon doesn't occur as much. I don't know. Di - an anybody  ?  Do you have any  ?  Anybody have any opinion about that ,

and that people might articulate more , and you that might end up with more  a closer correspondence.


and that people might articulate more , and you that might end up with more  a closer correspondence.


It 's a  Well  Would , this corpus really be the right one to even try that on ?


It 's a  Well  Would , this corpus really be the right one to even try that on ?

Well it 's definitely true that , when people are , reading , even if they 're re - reading what , they had said spontaneously , that they have very different patterns. Mitch showed that , and some , dissertations have shown that.


It 's a  Well  Would , this corpus really be the right one to even try that on ?

Well it 's definitely true that , when people are , reading , even if they 're re - reading what , they had said spontaneously , that they have very different patterns. Mitch showed that , and some , dissertations have shown that.

So the fact that they 're reading , first of all , whether they 're reading in a room of , people , or rea you know , just the fact that they 're reading will make a difference.


Well it 's definitely true that , when people are , reading , even if they 're re - reading what , they had said spontaneously , that they have very different patterns. Mitch showed that , and some , dissertations have shown that.

So the fact that they 're reading , first of all , whether they 're reading in a room of , people , or rea you know , just the fact that they 're reading will make a difference.


So the fact that they 're reading , first of all , whether they 're reading in a room of , people , or rea you know , just the fact that they 're reading will make a difference.

And , depends what you 're interested in.


So the fact that they 're reading , first of all , whether they 're reading in a room of , people , or rea you know , just the fact that they 're reading will make a difference.

And , depends what you 're interested in.

See , I don't know. So , may maybe the thing will be do  to take some very small subset , I mean not have a big , program , but take a small set , uh , subset of the conversational speech and a small subset of the digits , and  look and  and just get a feeling for it. Um , just take a look. Really.


And , depends what you 're interested in.

See , I don't know. So , may maybe the thing will be do  to take some very small subset , I mean not have a big , program , but take a small set , uh , subset of the conversational speech and a small subset of the digits , and  look and  and just get a feeling for it. Um , just take a look. Really.

H That could  could be an interesting design , too , cuz then you 'd have the com the comparison of the , uh , predictable speech versus the less predictable speech


And , depends what you 're interested in.

See , I don't know. So , may maybe the thing will be do  to take some very small subset , I mean not have a big , program , but take a small set , uh , subset of the conversational speech and a small subset of the digits , and  look and  and just get a feeling for it. Um , just take a look. Really.

H That could  could be an interesting design , too , cuz then you 'd have the com the comparison of the , uh , predictable speech versus the less predictable speech

Cuz I don't think anybody is , I at least , I don't know , of anybody , uh , well , I don't know ,  the answers.


See , I don't know. So , may maybe the thing will be do  to take some very small subset , I mean not have a big , program , but take a small set , uh , subset of the conversational speech and a small subset of the digits , and  look and  and just get a feeling for it. Um , just take a look. Really.

H That could  could be an interesting design , too , cuz then you 'd have the com the comparison of the , uh , predictable speech versus the less predictable speech

Cuz I don't think anybody is , I at least , I don't know , of anybody , uh , well , I don't know ,  the answers.


H That could  could be an interesting design , too , cuz then you 'd have the com the comparison of the , uh , predictable speech versus the less predictable speech

Cuz I don't think anybody is , I at least , I don't know , of anybody , uh , well , I don't know ,  the answers.


Cuz I don't think anybody is , I at least , I don't know , of anybody , uh , well , I don't know ,  the answers.

and maybe you 'd find that it worked in , in the , case of the pr of the , uh , non - predictable.


and maybe you 'd find that it worked in , in the , case of the pr of the , uh , non - predictable.


and maybe you 'd find that it worked in , in the , case of the pr of the , uh , non - predictable.

Hafta think about , the particular acoustic features to mark , too , because , I mean , some things , they wouldn't be able to mark , like , uh , you know , uh , tense lax.


Hafta think about , the particular acoustic features to mark , too , because , I mean , some things , they wouldn't be able to mark , like , uh , you know , uh , tense lax.

Some things are really difficult. You know ,


Some things are really difficult. You know ,


Some things are really difficult. You know ,

M I think we can get Ohala in to , give us some advice on that.


M I think we can get Ohala in to , give us some advice on that.


M I think we can get Ohala in to , give us some advice on that.

Also I thought you were thinking of a much more restricted set of features , that


M I think we can get Ohala in to , give us some advice on that.

Also I thought you were thinking of a much more restricted set of features , that

Yeah , but I  I  I  I was , like he said ,  I was gonna bring John in and ask John what he thought.


Also I thought you were thinking of a much more restricted set of features , that

Yeah , but I  I  I  I was , like he said ,  I was gonna bring John in and ask John what he thought.


Also I thought you were thinking of a much more restricted set of features , that

Yeah , but I  I  I  I was , like he said ,  I was gonna bring John in and ask John what he thought.

Right. But I mean you want  you want it be restrictive but you also want it to  to  to have coverage.


Yeah , but I  I  I  I was , like he said ,  I was gonna bring John in and ask John what he thought.

Right. But I mean you want  you want it be restrictive but you also want it to  to  to have coverage.


Right. But I mean you want  you want it be restrictive but you also want it to  to  to have coverage.


Right. But I mean you want  you want it be restrictive but you also want it to  to  to have coverage.

You know i you should. It should be such that if you , if you , uh , if you had o um , all of the features , determined that you  that you were uh ch have chosen , that that would tell you , uh , in the steady - state case , uh , the phone. So , um.


You know i you should. It should be such that if you , if you , uh , if you had o um , all of the features , determined that you  that you were uh ch have chosen , that that would tell you , uh , in the steady - state case , uh , the phone. So , um.


You know i you should. It should be such that if you , if you , uh , if you had o um , all of the features , determined that you  that you were uh ch have chosen , that that would tell you , uh , in the steady - state case , uh , the phone. So , um.

Even , I guess with vowels that would be pretty hard , wouldn't it ? To identify actually , you know , which one it is ?


You know i you should. It should be such that if you , if you , uh , if you had o um , all of the features , determined that you  that you were uh ch have chosen , that that would tell you , uh , in the steady - state case , uh , the phone. So , um.

Even , I guess with vowels that would be pretty hard , wouldn't it ? To identify actually , you know , which one it is ?

It would seem to me that the points of articulation would be m more , g uh , I mean that 's  I think about articulatory features , I think about , points of articulation , which means , uh , rather than vowels.


Even , I guess with vowels that would be pretty hard , wouldn't it ? To identify actually , you know , which one it is ?

It would seem to me that the points of articulation would be m more , g uh , I mean that 's  I think about articulatory features , I think about , points of articulation , which means , uh , rather than vowels.


Even , I guess with vowels that would be pretty hard , wouldn't it ? To identify actually , you know , which one it is ?

It would seem to me that the points of articulation would be m more , g uh , I mean that 's  I think about articulatory features , I think about , points of articulation , which means , uh , rather than vowels.

Points of articulation ? What do you mean ?


It would seem to me that the points of articulation would be m more , g uh , I mean that 's  I think about articulatory features , I think about , points of articulation , which means , uh , rather than vowels.

Points of articulation ? What do you mean ?

So , is it , uh , bilabial or dental or is it , you know , palatal.


Points of articulation ? What do you mean ?

So , is it , uh , bilabial or dental or is it , you know , palatal.


Points of articulation ? What do you mean ?

So , is it , uh , bilabial or dental or is it , you know , palatal.

Which  which are all like where  where your tongue comes to rest.


So , is it , uh , bilabial or dental or is it , you know , palatal.

Which  which are all like where  where your tongue comes to rest.


Which  which are all like where  where your tongue comes to rest.


Place. Thank you , what  whatev whatever I s said , that 's


Well it 's also , there 's , really a difference between , the pronunciation models in the dictionary , and , the pronunciations that people produce. And , so , You get , some of that information from Steve 's work on the  on the labeling


Well it 's also , there 's , really a difference between , the pronunciation models in the dictionary , and , the pronunciations that people produce. And , so , You get , some of that information from Steve 's work on the  on the labeling

and it really , I actually think that data should be used more. That maybe , although I think the meeting context is great , that he has transcriptions that give you the actual phone sequence. And you can go from  not from that to the articulatory features , but that would be a better starting point for marking , the gestural features , then , data where you don't have that , because , we  you wanna know , both about the way that they 're producing a certain sound , and what kinds of , you know what kinds of , phonemic , differences you get between these , transcribed , sequences and the dictionary ones.


and it really , I actually think that data should be used more. That maybe , although I think the meeting context is great , that he has transcriptions that give you the actual phone sequence. And you can go from  not from that to the articulatory features , but that would be a better starting point for marking , the gestural features , then , data where you don't have that , because , we  you wanna know , both about the way that they 're producing a certain sound , and what kinds of , you know what kinds of , phonemic , differences you get between these , transcribed , sequences and the dictionary ones.

Well you might be right that mi might be the way at getting at , what I was talking about , but the particular reason why I was interested in doing that was because I remember , when that happened , and , John Ohala was over here and he was looking at the spectrograms of the more difficult ones. Uh , he didn't know what to say , about , what is the sequence of phones there. They came up with some compromise. Because that really wasn't what it look like. It didn't look like a sequence of phones


Well you might be right that mi might be the way at getting at , what I was talking about , but the particular reason why I was interested in doing that was because I remember , when that happened , and , John Ohala was over here and he was looking at the spectrograms of the more difficult ones. Uh , he didn't know what to say , about , what is the sequence of phones there. They came up with some compromise. Because that really wasn't what it look like. It didn't look like a sequence of phones

it look like this blending thing happening here and here and here.


it look like this blending thing happening here and here and here.

Yeah , so you have this feature here , and , overlap , yeah.


Yeah , so you have this feature here , and , overlap , yeah.


But it still is  there 's a  there are two steps. One  you know , one is going from a dictionary pronunciation of something , like , " gonna see you tomorrow " ,


But it still is  there 's a  there are two steps. One  you know , one is going from a dictionary pronunciation of something , like , " gonna see you tomorrow " ,

it could be " going to " or " gonna " or " gonta s " you know.


it could be " going to " or " gonna " or " gonta s " you know.


it could be " going to " or " gonna " or " gonta s " you know.

And , yeah. " Gonna see you tomorrow " , uh , " guh see you tomorrow ". And , that it would be nice to have these , intermediate , or these  some  these reduced pronunciations that those transcribers had marked or to have people mark those as well.


And , yeah. " Gonna see you tomorrow " , uh , " guh see you tomorrow ". And , that it would be nice to have these , intermediate , or these  some  these reduced pronunciations that those transcribers had marked or to have people mark those as well.

Because , it 's not , um , that easy to go from the , dictionary , word pronuncia the dictionary phone pronunciation , to the gestural one without this intermediate or a syllable level kind of , representation.


And , yeah. " Gonna see you tomorrow " , uh , " guh see you tomorrow ". And , that it would be nice to have these , intermediate , or these  some  these reduced pronunciations that those transcribers had marked or to have people mark those as well.

Because , it 's not , um , that easy to go from the , dictionary , word pronuncia the dictionary phone pronunciation , to the gestural one without this intermediate or a syllable level kind of , representation.

Well I don't think Morgan 's suggesting that we do that , though.


Because , it 's not , um , that easy to go from the , dictionary , word pronuncia the dictionary phone pronunciation , to the gestural one without this intermediate or a syllable level kind of , representation.

Well I don't think Morgan 's suggesting that we do that , though.


Well I don't think Morgan 's suggesting that we do that , though.

Yeah , I mean , I I I 'm jus at the moment of course we 're just talking about what , to provide as a tool for people to do research who have different ideas about how to do it. So for instance , you might have someone who just has a wor has words with states , and has uh  uh , comes from articulatory gestures to that. And someone else , might actually want some phonetic uh intermediate thing. So I think it would be  be best to have all of it if we could. But  um ,


Yeah , I mean , I I I 'm jus at the moment of course we 're just talking about what , to provide as a tool for people to do research who have different ideas about how to do it. So for instance , you might have someone who just has a wor has words with states , and has uh  uh , comes from articulatory gestures to that. And someone else , might actually want some phonetic uh intermediate thing. So I think it would be  be best to have all of it if we could. But  um ,

But  What I 'm imagining is a score - like notation , where each line is a particular feature.


But  What I 'm imagining is a score - like notation , where each line is a particular feature.


so you would say , you know , it 's voiced through here , and so you have label here , and you have nas nasal here , and , they  they could be overlapping in all sorts of bizarre ways that don't correspond to the timing on phones.


so you would say , you know , it 's voiced through here , and so you have label here , and you have nas nasal here , and , they  they could be overlapping in all sorts of bizarre ways that don't correspond to the timing on phones.

I mean this is the kind of reason why  I remember when at one of the Switchboard , workshops , that uh when we talked about doing the transcription project , Dave Talkin said , " can't be done ".


so you would say , you know , it 's voiced through here , and so you have label here , and you have nas nasal here , and , they  they could be overlapping in all sorts of bizarre ways that don't correspond to the timing on phones.

I mean this is the kind of reason why  I remember when at one of the Switchboard , workshops , that uh when we talked about doing the transcription project , Dave Talkin said , " can't be done ".

He was  he was , what  what he meant was that this isn't , you know , a sequence of phones , and when you actually look at Switchboard that 's , not what you see , and , you know. And. It ,


I mean this is the kind of reason why  I remember when at one of the Switchboard , workshops , that uh when we talked about doing the transcription project , Dave Talkin said , " can't be done ".

He was  he was , what  what he meant was that this isn't , you know , a sequence of phones , and when you actually look at Switchboard that 's , not what you see , and , you know. And. It ,

And in  in fact the inter - annotator agreement was not that good , right ? On the harder ones ?


He was  he was , what  what he meant was that this isn't , you know , a sequence of phones , and when you actually look at Switchboard that 's , not what you see , and , you know. And. It ,

And in  in fact the inter - annotator agreement was not that good , right ? On the harder ones ?


He was  he was , what  what he meant was that this isn't , you know , a sequence of phones , and when you actually look at Switchboard that 's , not what you see , and , you know. And. It ,

And in  in fact the inter - annotator agreement was not that good , right ? On the harder ones ?

It depends how you look at it , and I  I understand what you 're saying about this , kind of transcription exactly ,


And in  in fact the inter - annotator agreement was not that good , right ? On the harder ones ?

It depends how you look at it , and I  I understand what you 're saying about this , kind of transcription exactly ,


It depends how you look at it , and I  I understand what you 're saying about this , kind of transcription exactly ,

because I 've seen  you know , where does the voicing bar start and so forth.


because I 've seen  you know , where does the voicing bar start and so forth.

All I 'm saying is that , it is useful to have that  the transcription of what was really said , and which syllables were reduced. Uh , if you 're gonna add the features it 's also useful to have some level of representation which is , is a reduced  it 's a pronunciation variant , that currently the dictionaries don't give you


All I 'm saying is that , it is useful to have that  the transcription of what was really said , and which syllables were reduced. Uh , if you 're gonna add the features it 's also useful to have some level of representation which is , is a reduced  it 's a pronunciation variant , that currently the dictionaries don't give you

because if you add them to the dictionary and you run recognition , you , you add confusion.


because if you add them to the dictionary and you run recognition , you , you add confusion.

So people purposely don't add them. So it 's useful to know which variant was  was produced , at least at the phone level.


because if you add them to the dictionary and you run recognition , you , you add confusion.

So people purposely don't add them. So it 's useful to know which variant was  was produced , at least at the phone level.

So it would be  it would be great if we had , either these kind of , labelings on , the same portion of Switchboard that Steve marked , or , Steve 's type markings on this data , with these.


So people purposely don't add them. So it 's useful to know which variant was  was produced , at least at the phone level.

So it would be  it would be great if we had , either these kind of , labelings on , the same portion of Switchboard that Steve marked , or , Steve 's type markings on this data , with these.


So it would be  it would be great if we had , either these kind of , labelings on , the same portion of Switchboard that Steve marked , or , Steve 's type markings on this data , with these.


Yeah , no I  I don't disagree with that.


Yeah , no I  I don't disagree with that.

And Steve 's type is fairly  it 's not that slow , uh , uh , I dunno exactly what the , timing was , but.


Yeah , no I  I don't disagree with that.

And Steve 's type is fairly  it 's not that slow , uh , uh , I dunno exactly what the , timing was , but.

Yeah u I don't disagree with it the on the only thing is that , What you actually will end  en end up with is something , i it 's all compromised , right , so , the string that you end up with isn't , actually , what happened. But it 's  it 's the best compromise that a group of people scratching their heads could come up with to describe what happened.


Yeah , no I  I don't disagree with that.

And Steve 's type is fairly  it 's not that slow , uh , uh , I dunno exactly what the , timing was , but.

Yeah u I don't disagree with it the on the only thing is that , What you actually will end  en end up with is something , i it 's all compromised , right , so , the string that you end up with isn't , actually , what happened. But it 's  it 's the best compromise that a group of people scratching their heads could come up with to describe what happened.

And it 's more accurate than , phone labels.


And Steve 's type is fairly  it 's not that slow , uh , uh , I dunno exactly what the , timing was , but.

Yeah u I don't disagree with it the on the only thing is that , What you actually will end  en end up with is something , i it 's all compromised , right , so , the string that you end up with isn't , actually , what happened. But it 's  it 's the best compromise that a group of people scratching their heads could come up with to describe what happened.

And it 's more accurate than , phone labels.


Yeah u I don't disagree with it the on the only thing is that , What you actually will end  en end up with is something , i it 's all compromised , right , so , the string that you end up with isn't , actually , what happened. But it 's  it 's the best compromise that a group of people scratching their heads could come up with to describe what happened.

And it 's more accurate than , phone labels.

But. And it 's more accurate than the  than the dictionary or , if you 've got a pronunciation uh lexicon that has three or four ,


And it 's more accurate than , phone labels.

But. And it 's more accurate than the  than the dictionary or , if you 've got a pronunciation uh lexicon that has three or four ,


But. And it 's more accurate than the  than the dictionary or , if you 've got a pronunciation uh lexicon that has three or four ,


But. And it 's more accurate than the  than the dictionary or , if you 've got a pronunciation uh lexicon that has three or four ,

this might be have been the fifth one that you tr that you pruned or whatever ,


this might be have been the fifth one that you tr that you pruned or whatever ,


an and in some places it would fill in , So  the kinds of gestural features are not everywhere.


an and in some places it would fill in , So  the kinds of gestural features are not everywhere.

So there are some things that you don't have access to either from your ear or the spectrogram ,


So there are some things that you don't have access to either from your ear or the spectrogram ,


So there are some things that you don't have access to either from your ear or the spectrogram ,

but you know what phone it was and that 's about all you can  all you can say.


but you know what phone it was and that 's about all you can  all you can say.

And then there are other cases where , nasality , voicing


but you know what phone it was and that 's about all you can  all you can say.

And then there are other cases where , nasality , voicing

It 's basically just having , multiple levels of  of , information and marking , on the signal.


And then there are other cases where , nasality , voicing

It 's basically just having , multiple levels of  of , information and marking , on the signal.


It 's basically just having , multiple levels of  of , information and marking , on the signal.

Well the other difference is that the  the features , are not synchronous ,


Well the other difference is that the  the features , are not synchronous ,


Well the other difference is that the  the features , are not synchronous ,

right. They overlap each other in weird ways.


right. They overlap each other in weird ways.

So it 's not a strictly one - dimensional signal.


So it 's not a strictly one - dimensional signal.

So I think that 's sorta qualitatively different.


So it 's not a strictly one - dimensional signal.

So I think that 's sorta qualitatively different.

Right. You can add the features in , uh , but it 'll be underspecified.


So I think that 's sorta qualitatively different.

Right. You can add the features in , uh , but it 'll be underspecified.


So I think that 's sorta qualitatively different.

Right. You can add the features in , uh , but it 'll be underspecified.

Th - there 'll be no way for you to actually mark what was said completely by features.


Right. You can add the features in , uh , but it 'll be underspecified.

Th - there 'll be no way for you to actually mark what was said completely by features.

Well not with our current system but you could imagine designing a system , that the states were features , rather than phones.


Th - there 'll be no way for you to actually mark what was said completely by features.

Well not with our current system but you could imagine designing a system , that the states were features , rather than phones.

And i if you 're  Well , we  we 've probably have a  separate , um , discussion of , uh  of whether you can do that.


Th - there 'll be no way for you to actually mark what was said completely by features.

Well not with our current system but you could imagine designing a system , that the states were features , rather than phones.

And i if you 're  Well , we  we 've probably have a  separate , um , discussion of , uh  of whether you can do that.

That 's  Well ,  isn't that  I thought that was , well but that  wasn't that kinda the direction ?


Well not with our current system but you could imagine designing a system , that the states were features , rather than phones.

And i if you 're  Well , we  we 've probably have a  separate , um , discussion of , uh  of whether you can do that.

That 's  Well ,  isn't that  I thought that was , well but that  wasn't that kinda the direction ?


And i if you 're  Well , we  we 've probably have a  separate , um , discussion of , uh  of whether you can do that.

That 's  Well ,  isn't that  I thought that was , well but that  wasn't that kinda the direction ?


That 's  Well ,  isn't that  I thought that was , well but that  wasn't that kinda the direction ?

Yeah , so I mean , what , what  where this is , I mean , I I want would like to have something that 's useful to people other than those who are doing the specific kind of research I have in mind , so it should be something broader. But , The  but uh where I 'm coming from is , uh , we 're coming off of stuff that Larry Saul did with  with , um , uh , John Dalan and Muzim Rahim in which , uh , they , uh , have , um , a m a multi - band system that is , uh , trained through a combination of gradient learning an and EM , to  um , estimate , uh ,  the , uh , value for m for  for a particular feature. OK. And this is part of a larger , image that John Dalan has about how the human brain does it in which he 's sort of imagining that , individual frequency channels are coming up with their own estimate , of  of these , these kinds of  something like this. Might not be , you know , exact features that , Jakobson thought of or something. But I mean you know some , something like that. Some kind of low - level features , which are not , fully , you know , phone classification. And the  the  th this particular image , of how thi how it 's done , is that , then given all of these estimates at that level , there 's a level above it , then which is  is making , some kind of sound unit classification such as , you know , phone and  and , you know. You could argue what , what a sound unit should be , and  and so forth. But that  that 's sort of what I was imagining doing , um , and  but it 's still open within that whether you would have an intermediate level in which it was actually phones , or not. You wouldn't necessarily have to. Um , but , Again , I wouldn't wanna , wouldn't want what we  we produced to be so , know , local in perspective that it  it was matched , what we were thinking of doing one week , And  and , and , you know , what you 're saying is absolutely right. That , that if we , can we should put in , uh , another level of , of description there if we 're gonna get into some of this low - level stuff.


Yeah , so I mean , what , what  where this is , I mean , I I want would like to have something that 's useful to people other than those who are doing the specific kind of research I have in mind , so it should be something broader. But , The  but uh where I 'm coming from is , uh , we 're coming off of stuff that Larry Saul did with  with , um , uh , John Dalan and Muzim Rahim in which , uh , they , uh , have , um , a m a multi - band system that is , uh , trained through a combination of gradient learning an and EM , to  um , estimate , uh ,  the , uh , value for m for  for a particular feature. OK. And this is part of a larger , image that John Dalan has about how the human brain does it in which he 's sort of imagining that , individual frequency channels are coming up with their own estimate , of  of these , these kinds of  something like this. Might not be , you know , exact features that , Jakobson thought of or something. But I mean you know some , something like that. Some kind of low - level features , which are not , fully , you know , phone classification. And the  the  th this particular image , of how thi how it 's done , is that , then given all of these estimates at that level , there 's a level above it , then which is  is making , some kind of sound unit classification such as , you know , phone and  and , you know. You could argue what , what a sound unit should be , and  and so forth. But that  that 's sort of what I was imagining doing , um , and  but it 's still open within that whether you would have an intermediate level in which it was actually phones , or not. You wouldn't necessarily have to. Um , but , Again , I wouldn't wanna , wouldn't want what we  we produced to be so , know , local in perspective that it  it was matched , what we were thinking of doing one week , And  and , and , you know , what you 're saying is absolutely right. That , that if we , can we should put in , uh , another level of , of description there if we 're gonna get into some of this low - level stuff.

Well , you know , um  I mean if we 're talking about , having the , annotators annotate these kinds of features , it seems like , You know , you  The  the question is , do they do that on , meeting data ? Or do they do that on , Switchboard ?


Well , you know , um  I mean if we 're talking about , having the , annotators annotate these kinds of features , it seems like , You know , you  The  the question is , do they do that on , meeting data ? Or do they do that on , Switchboard ?

maybe meeting data isn't the right corpus.


maybe meeting data isn't the right corpus.

I mean , I was thinking that it would be interesting , to do it with respect to , parts of Switchboard anyway , in terms of ,


maybe meeting data isn't the right corpus.

I mean , I was thinking that it would be interesting , to do it with respect to , parts of Switchboard anyway , in terms of ,

uh  partly to see , if you could , generate first guesses at what the articulatory feature would be , based on the phone representation at that lower level.


I mean , I was thinking that it would be interesting , to do it with respect to , parts of Switchboard anyway , in terms of ,

uh  partly to see , if you could , generate first guesses at what the articulatory feature would be , based on the phone representation at that lower level.


uh  partly to see , if you could , generate first guesses at what the articulatory feature would be , based on the phone representation at that lower level.

It might be a time gain. But also in terms of comparability of , um ,


It might be a time gain. But also in terms of comparability of , um ,

Well cuz the yeah , and then also , if you did it on Switchboard , you would have , the full continuum of transcriptions.


Well cuz the yeah , and then also , if you did it on Switchboard , you would have , the full continuum of transcriptions.

You 'd have it , from the lowest level , the ac acoustic features , then you 'd have the , you know , the phonetic level that Steve did ,


You 'd have it , from the lowest level , the ac acoustic features , then you 'd have the , you know , the phonetic level that Steve did ,

Yeah that  that 's all I was thinking about.


Yeah that  that 's all I was thinking about.


Yeah that  that 's all I was thinking about.

it is telephone band , so , the bandwidth might be


it is telephone band , so , the bandwidth might be


it is telephone band , so , the bandwidth might be

It 's so it 's a little different. So I mean i we 'll see wha how much we can , uh , get the people to do , and how much money we 'll have and all this sort of thing ,


It 's so it 's a little different. So I mean i we 'll see wha how much we can , uh , get the people to do , and how much money we 'll have and all this sort of thing ,


It 's so it 's a little different. So I mean i we 'll see wha how much we can , uh , get the people to do , and how much money we 'll have and all this sort of thing ,

But it  it might be good to do what Jane was saying uh , you know , seed it , with , guesses about what we think the features are , based on , you know , the phone or Steve 's transcriptions or something. to make it quicker.


But it  it might be good to do what Jane was saying uh , you know , seed it , with , guesses about what we think the features are , based on , you know , the phone or Steve 's transcriptions or something. to make it quicker.


But it  it might be good to do what Jane was saying uh , you know , seed it , with , guesses about what we think the features are , based on , you know , the phone or Steve 's transcriptions or something. to make it quicker.

Alright , so based on the phone transcripts they would all be synchronous , but then you could imagine , nudging them here and there.


Alright , so based on the phone transcripts they would all be synchronous , but then you could imagine , nudging them here and there.


Alright , so based on the phone transcripts they would all be synchronous , but then you could imagine , nudging them here and there.

Scoot the voicing over a little , because


Scoot the voicing over a little , because


Scoot the voicing over a little , because

Well I think what  I mean I 'm  I 'm a l little behind in what they 're doing , now , and , uh , the stuff they 're doing on Switchboard now. But I think that , Steve and the gang are doing , something with an automatic system first and then doing some adjustment. As I re as I recall. So I mean that 's probably the right way to go anyway , is to  is to start off with an automatic system with a pretty rich pronunciation dictionary that , that , um , you know , tries , to label it all. And then , people go through and fix it.


Scoot the voicing over a little , because

Well I think what  I mean I 'm  I 'm a l little behind in what they 're doing , now , and , uh , the stuff they 're doing on Switchboard now. But I think that , Steve and the gang are doing , something with an automatic system first and then doing some adjustment. As I re as I recall. So I mean that 's probably the right way to go anyway , is to  is to start off with an automatic system with a pretty rich pronunciation dictionary that , that , um , you know , tries , to label it all. And then , people go through and fix it.

So in  in our case you 'd think about us s starting with maybe the regular dictionary entry , and then ? Or  would we


Well I think what  I mean I 'm  I 'm a l little behind in what they 're doing , now , and , uh , the stuff they 're doing on Switchboard now. But I think that , Steve and the gang are doing , something with an automatic system first and then doing some adjustment. As I re as I recall. So I mean that 's probably the right way to go anyway , is to  is to start off with an automatic system with a pretty rich pronunciation dictionary that , that , um , you know , tries , to label it all. And then , people go through and fix it.

So in  in our case you 'd think about us s starting with maybe the regular dictionary entry , and then ? Or  would we

Well , regular dictionary , I mean , this is a pretty rich dictionary. It 's got , got a fair number of pronunciations in it


So in  in our case you 'd think about us s starting with maybe the regular dictionary entry , and then ? Or  would we

Well , regular dictionary , I mean , this is a pretty rich dictionary. It 's got , got a fair number of pronunciations in it

Or you could start from the  if we were gonna , do the same set , of sentences that Steve had , done , we could start with those transcriptions.


Well , regular dictionary , I mean , this is a pretty rich dictionary. It 's got , got a fair number of pronunciations in it

Or you could start from the  if we were gonna , do the same set , of sentences that Steve had , done , we could start with those transcriptions.


Or you could start from the  if we were gonna , do the same set , of sentences that Steve had , done , we could start with those transcriptions.


Or you could start from the  if we were gonna , do the same set , of sentences that Steve had , done , we could start with those transcriptions.

That 's actually what I was thinking , is tha


That 's actually what I was thinking , is tha


That 's actually what I was thinking , is tha

the problem is when you run , uh , if you run a regular dictionary , um , even if you have variants , in there , which most people don't , you don't always get , out , the actual pronunciations ,


the problem is when you run , uh , if you run a regular dictionary , um , even if you have variants , in there , which most people don't , you don't always get , out , the actual pronunciations ,


the problem is when you run , uh , if you run a regular dictionary , um , even if you have variants , in there , which most people don't , you don't always get , out , the actual pronunciations ,

so that 's why the human transcriber 's giving you the  that pronunciation ,


so that 's why the human transcriber 's giving you the  that pronunciation ,

Actually maybe they 're using phone recognizers.


so that 's why the human transcriber 's giving you the  that pronunciation ,

Actually maybe they 're using phone recognizers.

and so y they  they  I thought that they were


Actually maybe they 're using phone recognizers.

and so y they  they  I thought that they were


and so y they  they  I thought that they were


uh  I think that would be a good i good idea.


uh  I think that would be a good i good idea.

Yeah , so I think that i i we also don't have , I mean , we 've got a good start on it , but we don't have a really good , meeting , recorder or recognizer or transcriber or anything yet , so. So , I mean another way to look at this is to , is to , uh , do some stuff on Switchboard which has all this other , stuff to it.


uh  I think that would be a good i good idea.

Yeah , so I think that i i we also don't have , I mean , we 've got a good start on it , but we don't have a really good , meeting , recorder or recognizer or transcriber or anything yet , so. So , I mean another way to look at this is to , is to , uh , do some stuff on Switchboard which has all this other , stuff to it.

And then , um , As we get , further down the road and we can do more things ahead of time , we can , do some of the same things to the meeting data.


Yeah , so I think that i i we also don't have , I mean , we 've got a good start on it , but we don't have a really good , meeting , recorder or recognizer or transcriber or anything yet , so. So , I mean another way to look at this is to , is to , uh , do some stuff on Switchboard which has all this other , stuff to it.

And then , um , As we get , further down the road and we can do more things ahead of time , we can , do some of the same things to the meeting data.


And then , um , As we get , further down the road and we can do more things ahead of time , we can , do some of the same things to the meeting data.


And I 'm  and these people might  they  they are , s most of them are trained with IPA.


And I 'm  and these people might  they  they are , s most of them are trained with IPA.

They 'd be able to do phonetic - level coding , or articulatory.


And I 'm  and these people might  they  they are , s most of them are trained with IPA.

They 'd be able to do phonetic - level coding , or articulatory.

Are they busy for the next couple years , or  ?


They 'd be able to do phonetic - level coding , or articulatory.

Are they busy for the next couple years , or  ?

Well , you know , I mean they , they  they 're interested in continuing working with us , so  I mean  I , and this would be up their alley , so , we could  when the  when you d meet with , with John Ohala and find , you know what taxonomy you want to apply , then , they 'd be , good to train onto it.


They 'd be able to do phonetic - level coding , or articulatory.

Are they busy for the next couple years , or  ?

Well , you know , I mean they , they  they 're interested in continuing working with us , so  I mean  I , and this would be up their alley , so , we could  when the  when you d meet with , with John Ohala and find , you know what taxonomy you want to apply , then , they 'd be , good to train onto it.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway , this is , not an urgent thing at all ,


Are they busy for the next couple years , or  ?

Well , you know , I mean they , they  they 're interested in continuing working with us , so  I mean  I , and this would be up their alley , so , we could  when the  when you d meet with , with John Ohala and find , you know what taxonomy you want to apply , then , they 'd be , good to train onto it.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway , this is , not an urgent thing at all ,


Well , you know , I mean they , they  they 're interested in continuing working with us , so  I mean  I , and this would be up their alley , so , we could  when the  when you d meet with , with John Ohala and find , you know what taxonomy you want to apply , then , they 'd be , good to train onto it.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway , this is , not an urgent thing at all ,


Yeah. Yeah. Anyway , this is , not an urgent thing at all ,

It 'd be very interesting though , to have  that data.


It 'd be very interesting though , to have  that data.


It 'd be very interesting though , to have  that data.

I wonder , how would you do a forced alignment ?


I wonder , how would you do a forced alignment ?


I wonder , how would you do a forced alignment ?

To  to  I mean , you 'd wanna iterate , somehow. Yeah. It 's interesting thing to think about.


To  to  I mean , you 'd wanna iterate , somehow. Yeah. It 's interesting thing to think about.


To  to  I mean , you 'd wanna iterate , somehow. Yeah. It 's interesting thing to think about.

I mean you 'd  you 'd want models for spreading.


I mean you 'd  you 'd want models for spreading.


Well it might be neat to do some , phonetic , features on these , nonword words. Are  are these kinds of words that people never  the " huh "s and the " hmm "s and the " huh "  and the uh  These k No , I 'm serious. There are all these kinds of  functional , uh , elements. I don't know what you call  them. But not just fill pauses but all kinds of ways of  interrupting  and so forth.


Well it might be neat to do some , phonetic , features on these , nonword words. Are  are these kinds of words that people never  the " huh "s and the " hmm "s and the " huh "  and the uh  These k No , I 'm serious. There are all these kinds of  functional , uh , elements. I don't know what you call  them. But not just fill pauses but all kinds of ways of  interrupting  and so forth.

And some of them are ,  yeah , " uh - huh "s , and " hmm "s , and , " hmm ! " " hmm "  " OK " , " uh "  Grunts , uh , that might be interesting.


And some of them are ,  yeah , " uh - huh "s , and " hmm "s , and , " hmm ! " " hmm "  " OK " , " uh "  Grunts , uh , that might be interesting.


Uh , new version of , uh , presegmentation ?


Uh , new version of , uh , presegmentation ?

Uh , oh yeah , um ,  I worked a little bit on the  on the presegmentation to  to get another version which does channel - specific , uh , speech - nonspeech detection. And , what I did is I used some normalized features which , uh , look in into the  which is normalized energy , uh , energy normalized by the mean over the channels and by the , minimum over the , other. within each channel. And to  to , mm , to , yeah , to normalize also loudness and  and modified loudness and things and that those special features actually are in my feature vector.


Uh , new version of , uh , presegmentation ?

Uh , oh yeah , um ,  I worked a little bit on the  on the presegmentation to  to get another version which does channel - specific , uh , speech - nonspeech detection. And , what I did is I used some normalized features which , uh , look in into the  which is normalized energy , uh , energy normalized by the mean over the channels and by the , minimum over the , other. within each channel. And to  to , mm , to , yeah , to normalize also loudness and  and modified loudness and things and that those special features actually are in my feature vector.

And , and , therefore to be able to , uh , somewhat distinguish between foreground and background speech in  in the different  in  each channel. And , eh , I tested it on  on three or four meetings and it seems to work , well yeah , fairly well , I  I would say. There are some problems with the lapel mike.


Uh , oh yeah , um ,  I worked a little bit on the  on the presegmentation to  to get another version which does channel - specific , uh , speech - nonspeech detection. And , what I did is I used some normalized features which , uh , look in into the  which is normalized energy , uh , energy normalized by the mean over the channels and by the , minimum over the , other. within each channel. And to  to , mm , to , yeah , to normalize also loudness and  and modified loudness and things and that those special features actually are in my feature vector.

And , and , therefore to be able to , uh , somewhat distinguish between foreground and background speech in  in the different  in  each channel. And , eh , I tested it on  on three or four meetings and it seems to work , well yeah , fairly well , I  I would say. There are some problems with the lapel mike.


And , and , therefore to be able to , uh , somewhat distinguish between foreground and background speech in  in the different  in  each channel. And , eh , I tested it on  on three or four meetings and it seems to work , well yeah , fairly well , I  I would say. There are some problems with the lapel mike.


So I  I understand that 's what you were saying about your problem with , minimum.


So I  I understand that 's what you were saying about your problem with , minimum.

Yeah. And. Yeah , and  and I had  I had , uh , specific problems with.


So I  I understand that 's what you were saying about your problem with , minimum.

Yeah. And. Yeah , and  and I had  I had , uh , specific problems with.

I get it. So new use ninetieth quartile , rather than , minimum.


Yeah. And. Yeah , and  and I had  I had , uh , specific problems with.

I get it. So new use ninetieth quartile , rather than , minimum.


I get it. So new use ninetieth quartile , rather than , minimum.

Yeah  yeah , then  I  I did some  some  some things like that ,


Yeah  yeah , then  I  I did some  some  some things like that ,


Yeah  yeah , then  I  I did some  some  some things like that ,

as there  there are some  some problems in , when , in the channel , there  they  the the speaker doesn't  doesn't talk much or doesn't talk at all. Then , the , yeah , there are  there are some problems with  with  with n with normalization , and , then , uh , there the system doesn't work at all. So , I 'm  I 'm glad that there is the  the digit part , where everybody is forced to say something ,


as there  there are some  some problems in , when , in the channel , there  they  the the speaker doesn't  doesn't talk much or doesn't talk at all. Then , the , yeah , there are  there are some problems with  with  with n with normalization , and , then , uh , there the system doesn't work at all. So , I 'm  I 'm glad that there is the  the digit part , where everybody is forced to say something ,

so , that 's  that 's great for  for my purpose. And , the thing is I  I , then the evaluation of  of the system is a little bit hard , as I don't have any references.


so , that 's  that 's great for  for my purpose. And , the thing is I  I , then the evaluation of  of the system is a little bit hard , as I don't have any references.

Yeah , that 's the one  one wh where I do the training on so I can't do the evaluation on So the thing is , can the transcribers perhaps do some , some  some meetings in  in terms of speech - nonspeech in  in the specific channels ?


Yeah , that 's the one  one wh where I do the training on so I can't do the evaluation on So the thing is , can the transcribers perhaps do some , some  some meetings in  in terms of speech - nonspeech in  in the specific channels ?


Yeah , that 's the one  one wh where I do the training on so I can't do the evaluation on So the thing is , can the transcribers perhaps do some , some  some meetings in  in terms of speech - nonspeech in  in the specific channels ?

Well won't you have that from their transcriptions ?


Well won't you have that from their transcriptions ?


so , um , I think I might have done what you 're requesting , though I did it in the service of a different thing.


so , um , I think I might have done what you 're requesting , though I did it in the service of a different thing.

I have thirty minutes that I 've more tightly transcribed with reference to individual channels.


so , um , I think I might have done what you 're requesting , though I did it in the service of a different thing.

I have thirty minutes that I 've more tightly transcribed with reference to individual channels.

OK. OK , that 's great. That 's great for me. Yeah , so.


I have thirty minutes that I 've more tightly transcribed with reference to individual channels.

OK. OK , that 's great. That 's great for me. Yeah , so.


I have thirty minutes that I 've more tightly transcribed with reference to individual channels.

OK. OK , that 's great. That 's great for me. Yeah , so.

Hopefully that 's not the same meeting that we did.


OK. OK , that 's great. That 's great for me. Yeah , so.

Hopefully that 's not the same meeting that we did.

No , actually it 's a different meeting.


Hopefully that 's not the same meeting that we did.

No , actually it 's a different meeting.


No , actually it 's a different meeting.

So , um , e so the , you know , we have the , th they transcribe as if it 's one channel with these  with the slashes to separate the overlapping parts.


So , um , e so the , you know , we have the , th they transcribe as if it 's one channel with these  with the slashes to separate the overlapping parts.


So , um , e so the , you know , we have the , th they transcribe as if it 's one channel with these  with the slashes to separate the overlapping parts.

And then we run it through  then it  then I 'm gonna edit it and I 'm gonna run it through channelize which takes it into Dave Gelbart 's form format.


And then we run it through  then it  then I 'm gonna edit it and I 'm gonna run it through channelize which takes it into Dave Gelbart 's form format.

And then you have , all these things split across according to channel , and then that means that , if a person contributed more than once in a given , overlap during that time bend that  that two parts of the utterance end up together , it 's the same channel ,


And then you have , all these things split across according to channel , and then that means that , if a person contributed more than once in a given , overlap during that time bend that  that two parts of the utterance end up together , it 's the same channel ,

and then I took his tool , and last night for the first thirty minutes of one of these transcripts , I , tightened up the , um , boundaries on individual speakers ' channels ,


and then I took his tool , and last night for the first thirty minutes of one of these transcripts , I , tightened up the , um , boundaries on individual speakers ' channels ,

cuz his  his interface allows me to have total flexibility in the time tags across the channels.


cuz his  his interface allows me to have total flexibility in the time tags across the channels.


cuz his  his interface allows me to have total flexibility in the time tags across the channels.

so , yeah  yeah , that  that  that 's great , but what would be nice to have some more meetings , not just one meeting to  to be sure that  that , there is a system ,


so , yeah  yeah , that  that  that 's great , but what would be nice to have some more meetings , not just one meeting to  to be sure that  that , there is a system ,


so , yeah  yeah , that  that  that 's great , but what would be nice to have some more meetings , not just one meeting to  to be sure that  that , there is a system ,

Yeah , so if we could get a couple meetings done with that level of precision I think that would be a good idea.


Yeah , so if we could get a couple meetings done with that level of precision I think that would be a good idea.


Yeah , so if we could get a couple meetings done with that level of precision I think that would be a good idea.

Oh , OK. Uh , how  how m much time  so the meetings vary in length , what are we talking about in terms of the number of minutes you 'd like to have as your  as your training set ?


Yeah , so if we could get a couple meetings done with that level of precision I think that would be a good idea.

Oh , OK. Uh , how  how m much time  so the meetings vary in length , what are we talking about in terms of the number of minutes you 'd like to have as your  as your training set ?

It seems to me that it would be good to have , a few minutes from  from different meetings , so. But I 'm not sure about how much.


Oh , OK. Uh , how  how m much time  so the meetings vary in length , what are we talking about in terms of the number of minutes you 'd like to have as your  as your training set ?

It seems to me that it would be good to have , a few minutes from  from different meetings , so. But I 'm not sure about how much.

OK , now you 're saying different meetings because of different speakers or because of different audio quality or both or  ?


Oh , OK. Uh , how  how m much time  so the meetings vary in length , what are we talking about in terms of the number of minutes you 'd like to have as your  as your training set ?

It seems to me that it would be good to have , a few minutes from  from different meetings , so. But I 'm not sure about how much.

OK , now you 're saying different meetings because of different speakers or because of different audio quality or both or  ?

Both  both. Different  different number of speakers , different speakers , different  conditions.


It seems to me that it would be good to have , a few minutes from  from different meetings , so. But I 'm not sure about how much.

OK , now you 're saying different meetings because of different speakers or because of different audio quality or both or  ?

Both  both. Different  different number of speakers , different speakers , different  conditions.


OK , now you 're saying different meetings because of different speakers or because of different audio quality or both or  ?

Both  both. Different  different number of speakers , different speakers , different  conditions.

Yeah , we don't have that much variety in meetings yet , uh , I mean we have this meeting and the feature meeting and we have a couple others that we have uh , couple examples of. But  but , uh ,


Both  both. Different  different number of speakers , different speakers , different  conditions.

Yeah , we don't have that much variety in meetings yet , uh , I mean we have this meeting and the feature meeting and we have a couple others that we have uh , couple examples of. But  but , uh ,


Yeah , we don't have that much variety in meetings yet , uh , I mean we have this meeting and the feature meeting and we have a couple others that we have uh , couple examples of. But  but , uh ,


Yeah , we don't have that much variety in meetings yet , uh , I mean we have this meeting and the feature meeting and we have a couple others that we have uh , couple examples of. But  but , uh ,

Even probably with the gains  differently will affect it , you mean


Even probably with the gains  differently will affect it , you mean


Even probably with the gains  differently will affect it , you mean

uh , because of the normalization , yeah.


uh , because of the normalization , yeah.

Oh , cuz you use the normalization ? OK.


Oh , cuz you use the normalization ? OK.

We can try running  we haven't done this yet because , um , uh , Andreas an is  is gonna move over the SRI recognizer. i basically I ran out of machines at SRI ,


We can try running  we haven't done this yet because , um , uh , Andreas an is  is gonna move over the SRI recognizer. i basically I ran out of machines at SRI ,


We can try running  we haven't done this yet because , um , uh , Andreas an is  is gonna move over the SRI recognizer. i basically I ran out of machines at SRI ,

cuz we 're running the evals and I just don't have machine time there. But , once that 's moved over , uh , hopefully in a  a couple days , then , we can take , um , what Jane just told us about as , the presegmented ,   the  the segmentations that you did , at level eight or som  at some , threshold that Jane , tha  right , and try doing , forced alignment. um , on the word strings.


cuz we 're running the evals and I just don't have machine time there. But , once that 's moved over , uh , hopefully in a  a couple days , then , we can take , um , what Jane just told us about as , the presegmented ,   the  the segmentations that you did , at level eight or som  at some , threshold that Jane , tha  right , and try doing , forced alignment. um , on the word strings.


And if it 's good , then that will  that may give you a good boundary. Of course if it 's good , we don't  then we 're  we 're fine ,


And if it 's good , then that will  that may give you a good boundary. Of course if it 's good , we don't  then we 're  we 're fine ,

but , I don't know yet whether these , segments that contain a lot of pauses around the words , will work or not.


And if it 's good , then that will  that may give you a good boundary. Of course if it 's good , we don't  then we 're  we 're fine ,

but , I don't know yet whether these , segments that contain a lot of pauses around the words , will work or not.

I  I would quite like to have some manually transcribed references for  for the system , as I 'm not sure if  if it 's really good to compare with  with some other automatic , found boundaries.


but , I don't know yet whether these , segments that contain a lot of pauses around the words , will work or not.

I  I would quite like to have some manually transcribed references for  for the system , as I 'm not sure if  if it 's really good to compare with  with some other automatic , found boundaries.


but , I don't know yet whether these , segments that contain a lot of pauses around the words , will work or not.

I  I would quite like to have some manually transcribed references for  for the system , as I 'm not sure if  if it 's really good to compare with  with some other automatic , found boundaries.

Well , no , if we were to start with this and then tweak it h manually , would that  that would be OK ?


I  I would quite like to have some manually transcribed references for  for the system , as I 'm not sure if  if it 's really good to compare with  with some other automatic , found boundaries.

Well , no , if we were to start with this and then tweak it h manually , would that  that would be OK ?