I said I'm the Project Manager and uh I'm hoping uh for a good project and uh I'd like to hear uh who you are and what your functions are uh on this project. Let's start with the ladies  .

Well uh I'm uh  and my uh function is User Interface Design , I think.

Okay , uh I'm  uh I'm the Industrial Designer and I uh hope to uh  look forward to uh a very uh pleasing uh end of this uh project.


Well uh I'm uh  and my uh function is User Interface Design , I think.

Okay , uh I'm  uh I'm the Industrial Designer and I uh hope to uh  look forward to uh a very uh pleasing uh end of this uh project.


Okay , uh I'm  uh I'm the Industrial Designer and I uh hope to uh  look forward to uh a very uh pleasing uh end of this uh project.


Okay , uh I'm  uh I'm the Industrial Designer and I uh hope to uh  look forward to uh a very uh pleasing uh end of this uh project.

My name's . I'm uh  Marketing Expert.  My job is in the company to promote company or promote products to the customers. So I also h hope we have a pleasant uh working with uh with each other.


My name's . I'm uh  Marketing Expert.  My job is in the company to promote company or promote products to the customers. So I also h hope we have a pleasant uh working with uh with each other.

Okay , well we have some expertise from uh different pieces of the of the company.


My name's . I'm uh  Marketing Expert.  My job is in the company to promote company or promote products to the customers. So I also h hope we have a pleasant uh working with uh with each other.

Okay , well we have some expertise from uh different pieces of the of the company.

That's good. Um well I said uh we're working on a project and the aim for the project is to to create a  to design a new remote control which uh has to be original , trendy and of course , user friendly.  And uh I hope we have the expertise to create such a project  such a product. Um the way we hope to achieve that is uh the following methods. It consists of three phases , namely the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. As you can see , all of these phases consists of two parts , namely individual work part and a meeting where we will discuss uh our work so far. Okay. But first I will uh tell you something about the tools we have here. I already talked about the cameras and microphones , but they are not of uh much use to us. Uh we will have to take advantage of these two things. They are smart boards. As you can see , you can give a presentation on them. And uh this one here is a white board. I will uh instruct you about that soon. Um as you also noticed uh this presentation document is in our uh project folder and every document you put in this folder uh is uh it is possible to show that here in our meeting room. Um and yeah there are available on both smart boards but I think we will uh mainly use this one for the documents in the shared folder. As you can see , this is the same tool bar uh as is located here. Um the most functions uh we will use will be to to add a new page , um uh to go back and forward between pages , and of course uh to save it every now and then. Um and this is the pen with which you can draw on the board , for instance like this if everything's okay ,


My name's . I'm uh  Marketing Expert.  My job is in the company to promote company or promote products to the customers. So I also h hope we have a pleasant uh working with uh with each other.

Okay , well we have some expertise from uh different pieces of the of the company.

That's good. Um well I said uh we're working on a project and the aim for the project is to to create a  to design a new remote control which uh has to be original , trendy and of course , user friendly.  And uh I hope we have the expertise to create such a project  such a product. Um the way we hope to achieve that is uh the following methods. It consists of three phases , namely the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. As you can see , all of these phases consists of two parts , namely individual work part and a meeting where we will discuss uh our work so far. Okay. But first I will uh tell you something about the tools we have here. I already talked about the cameras and microphones , but they are not of uh much use to us. Uh we will have to take advantage of these two things. They are smart boards. As you can see , you can give a presentation on them. And uh this one here is a white board. I will uh instruct you about that soon. Um as you also noticed uh this presentation document is in our uh project folder and every document you put in this folder uh is uh it is possible to show that here in our meeting room. Um and yeah there are available on both smart boards but I think we will uh mainly use this one for the documents in the shared folder. As you can see , this is the same tool bar uh as is located here. Um the most functions uh we will use will be to to add a new page , um uh to go back and forward between pages , and of course uh to save it every now and then. Um and this is the pen with which you can draw on the board , for instance like this if everything's okay ,

but I first have to put it on the pen , you see I'm new to it too.


Okay , well we have some expertise from uh different pieces of the of the company.

That's good. Um well I said uh we're working on a project and the aim for the project is to to create a  to design a new remote control which uh has to be original , trendy and of course , user friendly.  And uh I hope we have the expertise to create such a project  such a product. Um the way we hope to achieve that is uh the following methods. It consists of three phases , namely the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. As you can see , all of these phases consists of two parts , namely individual work part and a meeting where we will discuss uh our work so far. Okay. But first I will uh tell you something about the tools we have here. I already talked about the cameras and microphones , but they are not of uh much use to us. Uh we will have to take advantage of these two things. They are smart boards. As you can see , you can give a presentation on them. And uh this one here is a white board. I will uh instruct you about that soon. Um as you also noticed uh this presentation document is in our uh project folder and every document you put in this folder uh is uh it is possible to show that here in our meeting room. Um and yeah there are available on both smart boards but I think we will uh mainly use this one for the documents in the shared folder. As you can see , this is the same tool bar uh as is located here. Um the most functions uh we will use will be to to add a new page , um uh to go back and forward between pages , and of course uh to save it every now and then. Um and this is the pen with which you can draw on the board , for instance like this if everything's okay ,

but I first have to put it on the pen , you see I'm new to it too.

Um and then you can write things like test or whatever you want.


That's good. Um well I said uh we're working on a project and the aim for the project is to to create a  to design a new remote control which uh has to be original , trendy and of course , user friendly.  And uh I hope we have the expertise to create such a project  such a product. Um the way we hope to achieve that is uh the following methods. It consists of three phases , namely the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. As you can see , all of these phases consists of two parts , namely individual work part and a meeting where we will discuss uh our work so far. Okay. But first I will uh tell you something about the tools we have here. I already talked about the cameras and microphones , but they are not of uh much use to us. Uh we will have to take advantage of these two things. They are smart boards. As you can see , you can give a presentation on them. And uh this one here is a white board. I will uh instruct you about that soon. Um as you also noticed uh this presentation document is in our uh project folder and every document you put in this folder uh is uh it is possible to show that here in our meeting room. Um and yeah there are available on both smart boards but I think we will uh mainly use this one for the documents in the shared folder. As you can see , this is the same tool bar uh as is located here. Um the most functions uh we will use will be to to add a new page , um uh to go back and forward between pages , and of course uh to save it every now and then. Um and this is the pen with which you can draw on the board , for instance like this if everything's okay ,

but I first have to put it on the pen , you see I'm new to it too.

Um and then you can write things like test or whatever you want.


but I first have to put it on the pen , you see I'm new to it too.

Um and then you can write things like test or whatever you want.

As you can see you have to move it a little bit slow , it's not such a fast board , it's a smart board but also a slow board.


Um and then you can write things like test or whatever you want.

As you can see you have to move it a little bit slow , it's not such a fast board , it's a smart board but also a slow board.

Uh but you can write things and of course you can also , when you click here , uh erase things , so we have uh est left. And um you can also delete an entire page , but we ask you not to do that. Just simply create a new one and uh start all over because we want to save all the results. Um does everyone understand this


As you can see you have to move it a little bit slow , it's not such a fast board , it's a smart board but also a slow board.

Uh but you can write things and of course you can also , when you click here , uh erase things , so we have uh est left. And um you can also delete an entire page , but we ask you not to do that. Just simply create a new one and uh start all over because we want to save all the results. Um does everyone understand this


Uh but you can write things and of course you can also , when you click here , uh erase things , so we have uh est left. And um you can also delete an entire page , but we ask you not to do that. Just simply create a new one and uh start all over because we want to save all the results. Um does everyone understand this


Well you can erase it with the eraser , but uh you shouldn't delete an entire page , but just create a new blank one.


Well you can erase it with the eraser , but uh you shouldn't delete an entire page , but just create a new blank one.

I will delete this one now because we don't use it yet.


I will delete this one now because we don't use it yet.

But you can of course erase when you make a mistake , but don't uh delete entire pages. And you can also um let's see I think it's here uh change the uh colour of your pen , for instance take a blue one and uh change the line width like to five. Um that's what you will need for our first exercise , because I'm uh going to ask you to draw your favourite animal.


I will delete this one now because we don't use it yet.

But you can of course erase when you make a mistake , but don't uh delete entire pages. And you can also um let's see I think it's here uh change the uh colour of your pen , for instance take a blue one and uh change the line width like to five. Um that's what you will need for our first exercise , because I'm uh going to ask you to draw your favourite animal.

It's also to gets to know each other because um I'm asking three things , uh for that uh drawing ,


But you can of course erase when you make a mistake , but don't uh delete entire pages. And you can also um let's see I think it's here uh change the uh colour of your pen , for instance take a blue one and uh change the line width like to five. Um that's what you will need for our first exercise , because I'm uh going to ask you to draw your favourite animal.

It's also to gets to know each other because um I'm asking three things , uh for that uh drawing ,


But you can of course erase when you make a mistake , but don't uh delete entire pages. And you can also um let's see I think it's here uh change the uh colour of your pen , for instance take a blue one and uh change the line width like to five. Um that's what you will need for our first exercise , because I'm uh going to ask you to draw your favourite animal.

It's also to gets to know each other because um I'm asking three things , uh for that uh drawing ,

to do it on a blank sheet , with different colours and I just showed you how to pick a colour , and also with different pen widths which I also showed you. Um and a favourite characteristic can be just uh one word. Well I'm not very good at drawing , but I will uh go first and um try to draw


It's also to gets to know each other because um I'm asking three things , uh for that uh drawing ,

to do it on a blank sheet , with different colours and I just showed you how to pick a colour , and also with different pen widths which I also showed you. Um and a favourite characteristic can be just uh one word. Well I'm not very good at drawing , but I will uh go first and um try to draw

Or maybe you should guess what I'm drawing , eh.


to do it on a blank sheet , with different colours and I just showed you how to pick a colour , and also with different pen widths which I also showed you. Um and a favourite characteristic can be just uh one word. Well I'm not very good at drawing , but I will uh go first and um try to draw

Or maybe you should guess what I'm drawing , eh.


Or maybe you should guess what I'm drawing , eh.


this thing it could be a turtle , or a snail ,


But a turtle has. And those are slow. And I hope our project group will not be slow ,


But a turtle has. And those are slow. And I hope our project group will not be slow ,

and do it uh as fast as we can. Okay , time for another animal. Would you like to go next ?


and do it uh as fast as we can. Okay , time for another animal. Would you like to go next ?


I think it's easy to r uh to recognise as a giraffe.


I think it's easy to r uh to recognise as a giraffe.

Yeah , the favourite charis characteristic is that the long neck ,  it can reach everything. And I hope I can also reach a lot with this project. So that's my favourite animal.


Yeah , the favourite charis characteristic is that the long neck ,  it can reach everything. And I hope I can also reach a lot with this project. So that's my favourite animal.


Yeah , the favourite charis characteristic is that the long neck ,  it can reach everything. And I hope I can also reach a lot with this project. So that's my favourite animal.

Could you write the words , uh underneath it ? Or more words.


Could you write the words , uh underneath it ? Or more words.


And uh well uh it's uh quick , I guess. That's uh my uh favourite animal.


Uh I uh draw I I've drawn a dolphin because of its intelligence.


thank you very much. I can see we have some uh drawing talent uh in this group ,


thank you very much. I can see we have some uh drawing talent uh in this group ,

huh ? Well , nice animals , nice words. Sounds good. Um back to business , back to the money part. Um from the finance department I have learned that we are aiming for a selling price of twenty five Euros. And we're hoping for a aim of fifty million Euros and uh we are hoping to achieve that uh by aiming for an international market. And the production cost will be twelve Euro fifty max. Okay , well it's time uh for some discussion. I've wrote down some examples here of what we can can speak about. Uh what's your experience with remote controls , um what kind of ideas do you have to design a new remote control , maybe for which market segments should we aim , or should we aim for all segments. Uh well actually I'd like to hand the word uh back to you. What's your experience with remote control ?


huh ? Well , nice animals , nice words. Sounds good. Um back to business , back to the money part. Um from the finance department I have learned that we are aiming for a selling price of twenty five Euros. And we're hoping for a aim of fifty million Euros and uh we are hoping to achieve that uh by aiming for an international market. And the production cost will be twelve Euro fifty max. Okay , well it's time uh for some discussion. I've wrote down some examples here of what we can can speak about. Uh what's your experience with remote controls , um what kind of ideas do you have to design a new remote control , maybe for which market segments should we aim , or should we aim for all segments. Uh well actually I'd like to hand the word uh back to you. What's your experience with remote control ?

A lot of buttons. And you always lose them.


A lot of buttons. And you always lose them.


search for the buttons , which one is which


Well maybe we should try to make it fun.


Well maybe we should try to make it fun.

They use batteries and  batteries uh and poor signal.


They use batteries and  batteries uh and poor signal.


Perhaps that you have a lot of road remotes r road con remote controls.


Perhaps that you have a lot of road remotes r road con remote controls.

The the angle you have to use. You had different remote controls for different devices.


The the angle you have to use. You had different remote controls for different devices.


perhaps you can integrate them or something.


perhaps you can integrate them or something.

Uh for the use of different uh devices .


Uh for the use of different uh devices .


Yeah but then again you you still have a lot of buttons ,


Yeah but then again you you still have a lot of buttons ,

Yeah , that's right. And which you don't use.


Yeah , that's right. And which you don't use.

but you could uh I thin uh there's a possibility to g uh to uh to put those buttons uh behind some uh kind of uh protection


but you could uh I thin uh there's a possibility to g uh to uh to put those buttons uh behind some uh kind of uh protection


but you could uh I thin uh there's a possibility to g uh to uh to put those buttons uh behind some uh kind of uh protection

so that if y y you only get to see them when you need 'em.


so that if y y you only get to see them when you need 'em.


so that if y y you only get to see them when you need 'em.

That's possible , so that you only get the


so that if y y you only get to see them when you need 'em.

That's possible , so that you only get the

but it'll get very big the the remote control.


That's possible , so that you only get the

but it'll get very big the the remote control.


That's possible , so that you only get the

but it'll get very big the the remote control.

No n n no , just   Uh for example you got th uh the same size uh remote control you use everyday , but um  the usual buttons such as uh um  zapping uh as you call it in Dutch. Uh and the volume control uh are only the only possible buttons uh to use directly.


but it'll get very big the the remote control.

No n n no , just   Uh for example you got th uh the same size uh remote control you use everyday , but um  the usual buttons such as uh um  zapping uh as you call it in Dutch. Uh and the volume control uh are only the only possible buttons uh to use directly.


No n n no , just   Uh for example you got th uh the same size uh remote control you use everyday , but um  the usual buttons such as uh um  zapping uh as you call it in Dutch. Uh and the volume control uh are only the only possible buttons uh to use directly.


But uh not uh the buttons used to search on the the channels on your television.


But uh not uh the buttons used to search on the the channels on your television.

You only use those uh the first time , or.


You only use those uh the first time , or.


Mm-hmm. So maybe a a minimalist design , the least uh possible amount uh of buttons.


Mm-hmm. So maybe a a minimalist design , the least uh possible amount uh of buttons.

Yes. But you should make sure that you have every button they need on it. Because uh things for uh teletext , I dunno uh ,  w


Yes. But you should make sure that you have every button they need on it. Because uh things for uh teletext , I dunno uh ,  w


So you don't want to bother people with uh loads of buttons , but on the other hand they need many buttons


So you don't want to bother people with uh loads of buttons , but on the other hand they need many buttons

so they don't have to get out of their seat.


so they don't have to get out of their seat.


Because I think a market will be all kind of people. Elderly p el elderly , young people , so.


Because I think a market will be all kind of people. Elderly p el elderly , young people , so.

But if if it's if it's international you should uh look in  think in Britain they have uh different things they can do with the T_V_ , or so uh that you can choose what you want to see. I dunno if you should uh take that in consideration , or that you just should aim for the normal T_V_s


But if if it's if it's international you should uh look in  think in Britain they have uh different things they can do with the T_V_ , or so uh that you can choose what you want to see. I dunno if you should uh take that in consideration , or that you just should aim for the normal T_V_s


because  I think if you you're going to target a lot of people and the whole world and only Britain then I think the cost will uh rise higher than the twelve fifty , I think.


because  I think if you you're going to target a lot of people and the whole world and only Britain then I think the cost will uh rise higher than the twelve fifty , I think.

Yes . Yeah , I don't know if the they have that anywhere else , though.


because  I think if you you're going to target a lot of people and the whole world and only Britain then I think the cost will uh rise higher than the twelve fifty , I think.

Yes . Yeah , I don't know if the they have that anywhere else , though.

I think the aim is better to use uh the whole world and Britain , yeah.


Yes . Yeah , I don't know if the they have that anywhere else , though.

I think the aim is better to use uh the whole world and Britain , yeah.


I think the aim is better to use uh the whole world and Britain , yeah.


I think the main idea uh of this remote remote control is uh to make it user friendly. So uh I think uh when p uh when uh the customers will buy this remote control , they already have uh the remote control which uh companies uh uh with uh the the standards uh remote control with which comes uh with the television.


it only has to have uh the most used buttons. You don't have to integrate the buttons to search the channels on your television.


but then you have to to find your other remote control if you want to search.


but then you have to to find your other remote control if you want to search.

Yeah. Yeah , th it  it's  I think that's not


but then you have to to find your other remote control if you want to search.

Yeah. Yeah , th it  it's  I think that's not

Yeah but I  but it is impossible to uh to accommodate uh accommodate uh all the buttons on the s on the difference  different televisions sets on one remote control. It's impossible.


Yeah. Yeah , th it  it's  I think that's not

Yeah but I  but it is impossible to uh to accommodate uh accommodate uh all the buttons on the s on the difference  different televisions sets on one remote control. It's impossible.


Yeah but I  but it is impossible to uh to accommodate uh accommodate uh all the buttons on the s on the difference  different televisions sets on one remote control. It's impossible.


Yeah but I  but it is impossible to uh to accommodate uh accommodate uh all the buttons on the s on the difference  different televisions sets on one remote control. It's impossible.

Because uh for example Sony television uh has the opportunity to s to make uh uh to make it possible for  to see on one side of the screen uh teletext , and on the other side uh just n uh regular television. Uh


Because uh for example Sony television uh has the opportunity to s to make uh uh to make it possible for  to see on one side of the screen uh teletext , and on the other side uh just n uh regular television. Uh


Because uh for example Sony television uh has the opportunity to s to make uh uh to make it possible for  to see on one side of the screen uh teletext , and on the other side uh just n uh regular television. Uh

I think n m n most televisions nowadays do this.


I think n m n most televisions nowadays do this.

Yeah , but uh they don't use the same signal , uh on remote control.


Yeah , but uh they don't use the same signal , uh on remote control.

Because you can't use a Panasonic uh remote control on a on a Philips television.


Because you can't use a Panasonic uh remote control on a on a Philips television.

Yeah , but then you have to choose the  always with r universal remotes you have to choose the code.


Yeah , but then you have to choose the  always with r universal remotes you have to choose the code.

You can use which which type of television you have. That's no problem. But I think like the two pages on the same screen , like teletext and normal television , that's that's nowadays standard , I think.


You can use which which type of television you have. That's no problem. But I think like the two pages on the same screen , like teletext and normal television , that's that's nowadays standard , I think.

but  uh I think that most people uh th uh will buy the remote control because  because uh the first  they lost the one they lost first one


but  uh I think that most people uh th uh will buy the remote control because  because uh the first  they lost the one they lost first one


so uh uh perhaps they have a got a an older television ,


so uh uh perhaps they have a got a an older television ,

so that option is not  uh optional for those uh people.


so that option is not  uh optional for those uh people.


and c if you look into the future , then they want  will want the button , if their thing is broke.


and c if you look into the future , then they want  will want the button , if their thing is broke.

So we should take that in consideration.


So we should take that in consideration.


Okay , yeah well we have some time. Let's see what more I have to tell you. I don't think there is much left. Nope. We're starting to close. Um our next meeting uh will start  well we're a little bit early , but our next meeting will start in in thirty minutes.


Okay , yeah well we have some time. Let's see what more I have to tell you. I don't think there is much left. Nope. We're starting to close. Um our next meeting uh will start  well we're a little bit early , but our next meeting will start in in thirty minutes.

In the meantime uh there's time for some uh individual actions. Um , as you can see , the different roles have uh different tasks. And there's a ping.


In the meantime uh there's time for some uh individual actions. Um , as you can see , the different roles have uh different tasks. And there's a ping.


Yeah meeting will close in five minutes.


Yeah meeting will close in five minutes.

that's good , five minutes and uh the meeting's over , uh right on schedule.


Yeah meeting will close in five minutes.

that's good , five minutes and uh the meeting's over , uh right on schedule.

Um the Marketing Expert will uh will take a look at the user requirement specification. The User Interface Designer will work out the technical functions design. And this was the Interface Designer ? Or the Interaction Designer.


that's good , five minutes and uh the meeting's over , uh right on schedule.

Um the Marketing Expert will uh will take a look at the user requirement specification. The User Interface Designer will work out the technical functions design. And this was the Interface Designer ? Or the Interaction Designer.


Um the Marketing Expert will uh will take a look at the user requirement specification. The User Interface Designer will work out the technical functions design. And this was the Interface Designer ? Or the Interaction Designer.


Interface Designer , okay , first guess was right. Uh will take a look at the the working design.


Interface Designer , okay , first guess was right. Uh will take a look at the the working design.

the Industrial Designer will take a look at the working design ,


the Industrial Designer will take a look at the working design ,


sorry.  Let's just use the acronyms. Um and of course specific instructions uh will be sent to you uh through your personal coach.


sorry.  Let's just use the acronyms. Um and of course specific instructions uh will be sent to you uh through your personal coach.

So  So I should look at uh what you should be able to do with the remote , or uh , or how  I don't really


sorry.  Let's just use the acronyms. Um and of course specific instructions uh will be sent to you uh through your personal coach.

So  So I should look at uh what you should be able to do with the remote , or uh , or how  I don't really

Uh well those instructions will be uh in the email you will receive uh shortly , I hope.


So  So I should look at uh what you should be able to do with the remote , or uh , or how  I don't really

Uh well those instructions will be uh in the email you will receive uh shortly , I hope.

And of course you have your own uh expertise.


Uh well those instructions will be uh in the email you will receive uh shortly , I hope.

And of course you have your own uh expertise.


I was saying Hynek 'll be here next week , uh , Wednesday through Friday  uh , through Saturday , and , um , I won't be here Thursday and Friday. But my suggestion is that , uh , at least for this meeting , people should go ahead , uh , cuz Hynek will be here , and , you know , we don't have any Czech accent yet , uh ,  as far as I know , so  There we go.


I was saying Hynek 'll be here next week , uh , Wednesday through Friday  uh , through Saturday , and , um , I won't be here Thursday and Friday. But my suggestion is that , uh , at least for this meeting , people should go ahead , uh , cuz Hynek will be here , and , you know , we don't have any Czech accent yet , uh ,  as far as I know , so  There we go.

Um. So other than reading digits , what 's our agenda ?


I was saying Hynek 'll be here next week , uh , Wednesday through Friday  uh , through Saturday , and , um , I won't be here Thursday and Friday. But my suggestion is that , uh , at least for this meeting , people should go ahead , uh , cuz Hynek will be here , and , you know , we don't have any Czech accent yet , uh ,  as far as I know , so  There we go.

Um. So other than reading digits , what 's our agenda ?

I don't really have , uh , anything new. Been working on  Meeting Recorder stuff. So.


Um. So other than reading digits , what 's our agenda ?

I don't really have , uh , anything new. Been working on  Meeting Recorder stuff. So.

OK. Um. Do you think that would be the case for next week also ? Or is  is , uh  ? What 's your projection on  ?


I don't really have , uh , anything new. Been working on  Meeting Recorder stuff. So.

OK. Um. Do you think that would be the case for next week also ? Or is  is , uh  ? What 's your projection on  ?

Cuz the one thing  the one thing that seems to me we really should try , if you hadn't tried it before , because it hadn't occurred to me  it was sort of an obvious thing  is , um , adjusting the , uh , sca the scaling and , uh , insertion penalty sorta stuff.


OK. Um. Do you think that would be the case for next week also ? Or is  is , uh  ? What 's your projection on  ?

Cuz the one thing  the one thing that seems to me we really should try , if you hadn't tried it before , because it hadn't occurred to me  it was sort of an obvious thing  is , um , adjusting the , uh , sca the scaling and , uh , insertion penalty sorta stuff.

I did play with that , actually , a little bit. Um. What happens is , uh ,  when you get to the noisy stuff , you start getting lots of insertions.


Cuz the one thing  the one thing that seems to me we really should try , if you hadn't tried it before , because it hadn't occurred to me  it was sort of an obvious thing  is , um , adjusting the , uh , sca the scaling and , uh , insertion penalty sorta stuff.

I did play with that , actually , a little bit. Um. What happens is , uh ,  when you get to the noisy stuff , you start getting lots of insertions.


Cuz the one thing  the one thing that seems to me we really should try , if you hadn't tried it before , because it hadn't occurred to me  it was sort of an obvious thing  is , um , adjusting the , uh , sca the scaling and , uh , insertion penalty sorta stuff.

I did play with that , actually , a little bit. Um. What happens is , uh ,  when you get to the noisy stuff , you start getting lots of insertions.

And , um , so I 've tried playing around a little bit with , um , the insertion penalties and things like that.


I did play with that , actually , a little bit. Um. What happens is , uh ,  when you get to the noisy stuff , you start getting lots of insertions.

And , um , so I 've tried playing around a little bit with , um , the insertion penalties and things like that.


And , um , so I 've tried playing around a little bit with , um , the insertion penalties and things like that.

Um. I mean , it  it didn't make a whole lot of difference. Like for the well - matched case , it seemed like it was pretty good. Um.  I could do more playing with that , though. And , uh


Um. I mean , it  it didn't make a whole lot of difference. Like for the well - matched case , it seemed like it was pretty good. Um.  I could do more playing with that , though. And , uh


Oh , you 're talking about for th  for our features.


Oh , you 're talking about for th  for our features.

Right. So , I mean , i it it 's not the direction that you were working with that we were saying what 's the  uh , what 's the best you can do with  with mel cepstrum. But , they raised a very valid point ,


Oh , you 're talking about for th  for our features.

Right. So , I mean , i it it 's not the direction that you were working with that we were saying what 's the  uh , what 's the best you can do with  with mel cepstrum. But , they raised a very valid point ,

which , I guess  So , to first order  I mean , you have other things you were gonna do , but to first order , I would say that the conclusion is that if you , um , do , uh , some monkeying around with , uh , the exact HTK training and @ @  with , uh , you know , how many states and so forth , that it  it doesn't particularly improve the performance. In other words , that even though it sounds pretty dumb , just applying the same number of states to everything , more or less , no matter what language , isn't so bad. Right ? And I guess you hadn't gotten to all the experiments you wanted to do with number of Gaussians ,


Right. So , I mean , i it it 's not the direction that you were working with that we were saying what 's the  uh , what 's the best you can do with  with mel cepstrum. But , they raised a very valid point ,

which , I guess  So , to first order  I mean , you have other things you were gonna do , but to first order , I would say that the conclusion is that if you , um , do , uh , some monkeying around with , uh , the exact HTK training and @ @  with , uh , you know , how many states and so forth , that it  it doesn't particularly improve the performance. In other words , that even though it sounds pretty dumb , just applying the same number of states to everything , more or less , no matter what language , isn't so bad. Right ? And I guess you hadn't gotten to all the experiments you wanted to do with number of Gaussians ,


which , I guess  So , to first order  I mean , you have other things you were gonna do , but to first order , I would say that the conclusion is that if you , um , do , uh , some monkeying around with , uh , the exact HTK training and @ @  with , uh , you know , how many states and so forth , that it  it doesn't particularly improve the performance. In other words , that even though it sounds pretty dumb , just applying the same number of states to everything , more or less , no matter what language , isn't so bad. Right ? And I guess you hadn't gotten to all the experiments you wanted to do with number of Gaussians ,

but , um , let 's just  If we had to  if we had to draw a conclusion on the information we have so far , we 'd say something like that. Right ?


but , um , let 's just  If we had to  if we had to draw a conclusion on the information we have so far , we 'd say something like that. Right ?

Uh , so the next question to ask , which is I think the one that  that  that Andreas was dre addressing himself to in the lunch meeting , is , um , we 're not supposed to adjust the back - end , but anybody using the system would.


Uh , so the next question to ask , which is I think the one that  that  that Andreas was dre addressing himself to in the lunch meeting , is , um , we 're not supposed to adjust the back - end , but anybody using the system would.

So , if you were just adjusting the back - end , how much better would you do , uh , in noise ? Uh , because the language scaling and insertion penalties and so forth are probably set to be about right for mel cepstrum.


So , if you were just adjusting the back - end , how much better would you do , uh , in noise ? Uh , because the language scaling and insertion penalties and so forth are probably set to be about right for mel cepstrum.

But , um , they 're probably not at all set right for these things , particularly these things that look over , uh , larger time windows , in one way or another with  with LDA and KLT and neural nets and  all these things. In the fa past we 've always found that we had to increase the insertion penalty to  to correspond to such things. So , I think that 's , uh , @ @  that 's kind of a first - order thing that  that we should try.


So , if you were just adjusting the back - end , how much better would you do , uh , in noise ? Uh , because the language scaling and insertion penalties and so forth are probably set to be about right for mel cepstrum.

But , um , they 're probably not at all set right for these things , particularly these things that look over , uh , larger time windows , in one way or another with  with LDA and KLT and neural nets and  all these things. In the fa past we 've always found that we had to increase the insertion penalty to  to correspond to such things. So , I think that 's , uh , @ @  that 's kind of a first - order thing that  that we should try.

So for th so the experiment is to , um , run our front - end like normal , with the default , uh , insertion penalties and so forth , and then tweak that a little bit and see how much of a difference it makes


But , um , they 're probably not at all set right for these things , particularly these things that look over , uh , larger time windows , in one way or another with  with LDA and KLT and neural nets and  all these things. In the fa past we 've always found that we had to increase the insertion penalty to  to correspond to such things. So , I think that 's , uh , @ @  that 's kind of a first - order thing that  that we should try.

So for th so the experiment is to , um , run our front - end like normal , with the default , uh , insertion penalties and so forth , and then tweak that a little bit and see how much of a difference it makes

So by " our front - end " I mean take , you know , the Aurora - two s take some version that Stephane has that is , you know , our current best version of something.


So for th so the experiment is to , um , run our front - end like normal , with the default , uh , insertion penalties and so forth , and then tweak that a little bit and see how much of a difference it makes

So by " our front - end " I mean take , you know , the Aurora - two s take some version that Stephane has that is , you know , our current best version of something.

Um. I mean , y don't wanna do this over a hundred different things that they 've tried but , you know , for some version that you say is a good one. You know ? Um. How  how much , uh , does it improve if you actually adjust that ?


So by " our front - end " I mean take , you know , the Aurora - two s take some version that Stephane has that is , you know , our current best version of something.

Um. I mean , y don't wanna do this over a hundred different things that they 've tried but , you know , for some version that you say is a good one. You know ? Um. How  how much , uh , does it improve if you actually adjust that ?


Um. I mean , y don't wanna do this over a hundred different things that they 've tried but , you know , for some version that you say is a good one. You know ? Um. How  how much , uh , does it improve if you actually adjust that ?

But it is interesting. You say you  you have for the noisy  How about for the  for the mismatched or  or  or  or the  or the medium mismatched conditions ? Have you  ? When you adjusted those numbers for mel cepstrum , did it  ?


Um. I mean , y don't wanna do this over a hundred different things that they 've tried but , you know , for some version that you say is a good one. You know ? Um. How  how much , uh , does it improve if you actually adjust that ?

But it is interesting. You say you  you have for the noisy  How about for the  for the mismatched or  or  or  or the  or the medium mismatched conditions ? Have you  ? When you adjusted those numbers for mel cepstrum , did it  ?

Uh , I  I don't remember off the top of my head. Um. Yeah. I didn't even write them down. I  I  I don't remember. I would need to  Well , I did write down , um  So , when I was doing  I just wrote down some numbers for the well - matched case.


But it is interesting. You say you  you have for the noisy  How about for the  for the mismatched or  or  or  or the  or the medium mismatched conditions ? Have you  ? When you adjusted those numbers for mel cepstrum , did it  ?

Uh , I  I don't remember off the top of my head. Um. Yeah. I didn't even write them down. I  I  I don't remember. I would need to  Well , I did write down , um  So , when I was doing  I just wrote down some numbers for the well - matched case.


But it is interesting. You say you  you have for the noisy  How about for the  for the mismatched or  or  or  or the  or the medium mismatched conditions ? Have you  ? When you adjusted those numbers for mel cepstrum , did it  ?

Uh , I  I don't remember off the top of my head. Um. Yeah. I didn't even write them down. I  I  I don't remember. I would need to  Well , I did write down , um  So , when I was doing  I just wrote down some numbers for the well - matched case.

Um. Looking at the  I wrote down what the deletions , substitutions , and insertions were , uh , for different numbers of states per phone.


Uh , I  I don't remember off the top of my head. Um. Yeah. I didn't even write them down. I  I  I don't remember. I would need to  Well , I did write down , um  So , when I was doing  I just wrote down some numbers for the well - matched case.

Um. Looking at the  I wrote down what the deletions , substitutions , and insertions were , uh , for different numbers of states per phone.


Um. Looking at the  I wrote down what the deletions , substitutions , and insertions were , uh , for different numbers of states per phone.

Um , but , uh , that  that 's all I wrote down.


Um , but , uh , that  that 's all I wrote down.

So. I  I would  Yeah. I would need to do that.


So. I  I would  Yeah. I would need to do that.


So. I  I would  Yeah. I would need to do that.

Yeah. And , um  Yeah. Also , eh , eh , sometimes if you run behind on some of these things , maybe we can get someone else to do it and you can supervise or something. But  but I think it would be  it 'd be good to know that.


Yeah. And , um  Yeah. Also , eh , eh , sometimes if you run behind on some of these things , maybe we can get someone else to do it and you can supervise or something. But  but I think it would be  it 'd be good to know that.

OK. I just need to get , um ,  front - end , uh , stuff from you


Yeah. And , um  Yeah. Also , eh , eh , sometimes if you run behind on some of these things , maybe we can get someone else to do it and you can supervise or something. But  but I think it would be  it 'd be good to know that.

OK. I just need to get , um ,  front - end , uh , stuff from you

or you point me to some files  that you 've already calculated.


OK. I just need to get , um ,  front - end , uh , stuff from you

or you point me to some files  that you 've already calculated.


or you point me to some files  that you 've already calculated.


or you point me to some files  that you 've already calculated.

I probably will have time to do that and time to play a little bit with the silence model.


I probably will have time to do that and time to play a little bit with the silence model.


I probably will have time to do that and time to play a little bit with the silence model.

So maybe I can have that for next week when Hynek 's here.


So maybe I can have that for next week when Hynek 's here.


So maybe I can have that for next week when Hynek 's here.

Yeah. Cuz , I mean , the  the other  That , in fact , might have been part of what , uh , the difference was  at least part of it that  that we were seeing. Remember we were seeing the SRI system was so much better than the tandem system.


Yeah. Cuz , I mean , the  the other  That , in fact , might have been part of what , uh , the difference was  at least part of it that  that we were seeing. Remember we were seeing the SRI system was so much better than the tandem system.


Yeah. Cuz , I mean , the  the other  That , in fact , might have been part of what , uh , the difference was  at least part of it that  that we were seeing. Remember we were seeing the SRI system was so much better than the tandem system.

Part of it might just be that the SRI system , they  they  they always adjust these things to be sort of optimized ,


Part of it might just be that the SRI system , they  they  they always adjust these things to be sort of optimized ,


Part of it might just be that the SRI system , they  they  they always adjust these things to be sort of optimized ,

I wonder if there 's anything that we could do  to the front - end that would affect the insertion


I wonder if there 's anything that we could do  to the front - end that would affect the insertion


I wonder if there 's anything that we could do  to the front - end that would affect the insertion

Well , um  uh , part of what 's going on , um , is the , uh , the range of values. So , if you have something that has a much smaller range or a much larger range , and taking the appropriate root.


Well , um  uh , part of what 's going on , um , is the , uh , the range of values. So , if you have something that has a much smaller range or a much larger range , and taking the appropriate root.


Well , um  uh , part of what 's going on , um , is the , uh , the range of values. So , if you have something that has a much smaller range or a much larger range , and taking the appropriate root.

You know ? If something is kind of like the equivalent of a bunch of probabilities multiplied together , you can take a root of some sort. If it 's like seven probabilities together , you can take the seventh root of it or something , or if it 's in the log domain , divide it by seven.


You know ? If something is kind of like the equivalent of a bunch of probabilities multiplied together , you can take a root of some sort. If it 's like seven probabilities together , you can take the seventh root of it or something , or if it 's in the log domain , divide it by seven.

But  but , um , that has a similar effect because it changes the scale of the numbers  of the differences between different candidates from the acoustic model


But  but , um , that has a similar effect because it changes the scale of the numbers  of the differences between different candidates from the acoustic model

as opposed to what 's coming from the language model.


But  but , um , that has a similar effect because it changes the scale of the numbers  of the differences between different candidates from the acoustic model

as opposed to what 's coming from the language model.

So that w Right. So , in effect , that 's changing the value of your insertion penalty.


as opposed to what 's coming from the language model.

So that w Right. So , in effect , that 's changing the value of your insertion penalty.

Yeah. I mean , it 's more directly like the  the language scaling or the , uh  the model scaling or acoustic scaling ,


So that w Right. So , in effect , that 's changing the value of your insertion penalty.

Yeah. I mean , it 's more directly like the  the language scaling or the , uh  the model scaling or acoustic scaling ,

but you know that those things have kind of a similar effect to the insertion penalty


Yeah. I mean , it 's more directly like the  the language scaling or the , uh  the model scaling or acoustic scaling ,

but you know that those things have kind of a similar effect to the insertion penalty


but you know that those things have kind of a similar effect to the insertion penalty

anyway. They 're a slightly different way of  of handling it.


anyway. They 're a slightly different way of  of handling it.


anyway. They 're a slightly different way of  of handling it.

So if we know what the insertion penalty is , then we can get an idea about what range our number should be in ,


So if we know what the insertion penalty is , then we can get an idea about what range our number should be in ,


So if we know what the insertion penalty is , then we can get an idea about what range our number should be in ,

Yeah. Yeah. So that 's why I think that 's another reason other than curiosity as to why i it would in fact be kinda neat to find out if we 're way off. I mean , the other thing is , are aren't we seeing  ? Y y


Yeah. Yeah. So that 's why I think that 's another reason other than curiosity as to why i it would in fact be kinda neat to find out if we 're way off. I mean , the other thing is , are aren't we seeing  ? Y y


Yeah. Yeah. So that 's why I think that 's another reason other than curiosity as to why i it would in fact be kinda neat to find out if we 're way off. I mean , the other thing is , are aren't we seeing  ? Y y

I 'm sure you 've already looked at this bu in these noisy cases , are  ? We are seeing lots of insertions. Right ? The insertion number is quite high ?


I 'm sure you 've already looked at this bu in these noisy cases , are  ? We are seeing lots of insertions. Right ? The insertion number is quite high ?

I know the VAD takes pre care of part of that ,


I know the VAD takes pre care of part of that ,


I 've seen that with the mel cepstrum. I don't  I don't know about  the Aurora front - end , but


I 've seen that with the mel cepstrum. I don't  I don't know about  the Aurora front - end , but

I think it 's much more balanced with , uh  when the front - end is more robust. Yeah. I could look at it  at this. Yeah. Mm - hmm.


I think it 's much more balanced with , uh  when the front - end is more robust. Yeah. I could look at it  at this. Yeah. Mm - hmm.


but it  it  it wouldn't surprise me if there 's still


but it  it  it wouldn't surprise me if there 's still

I mean , in  in the  the  the old systems we used to do , I  I  uh , I remember numbers kind of like insertions being half the number of deletions , as being  and both numbers being  tend to be on the small side comparing to  to , uh , substitutions.


I mean , in  in the  the  the old systems we used to do , I  I  uh , I remember numbers kind of like insertions being half the number of deletions , as being  and both numbers being  tend to be on the small side comparing to  to , uh , substitutions.

Well , this  the whole problem with insertions was what I think , um , we talked about when the guy from OGI came down  that one time and  and that was when people were saying , well we should have a , uh , uh , voice activity detector


Well , this  the whole problem with insertions was what I think , um , we talked about when the guy from OGI came down  that one time and  and that was when people were saying , well we should have a , uh , uh , voice activity detector

that , because all that stuff  that we 're getting thr the silence that 's getting through is causing insertions. So.


that , because all that stuff  that we 're getting thr the silence that 's getting through is causing insertions. So.


that , because all that stuff  that we 're getting thr the silence that 's getting through is causing insertions. So.

I 'll bet you there 's still a lot  of insertions.


I 'll bet you there 's still a lot  of insertions.


I 'll bet you there 's still a lot  of insertions.

Yeah. And it may be less of a critical thing. I mean , the fact that some get by may be less of a critical thing if you , uh , get things in the right range.


Yeah. And it may be less of a critical thing. I mean , the fact that some get by may be less of a critical thing if you , uh , get things in the right range.

So , I mean , the insertions is  is a symptom. It 's a symptom that there 's something , uh , wrong with the range.


So , I mean , the insertions is  is a symptom. It 's a symptom that there 's something , uh , wrong with the range.

But there 's  uh , your  your  your substitutions tend to go up as well. So , uh , I  I  I think that ,


But there 's  uh , your  your  your substitutions tend to go up as well. So , uh , I  I  I think that ,

uh , the most obvious thing is just the insertions , @ @. But  Uh  um. If you 're operating in the wrong range  I mean , that 's why just in general , if you  change what these  these penalties and scaling factors are , you reach some point that 's a  that 's a minimum. So. Um. Um. We do have to do well over a range of different conditions , some of which are noisier than others. Um. But , um , I think we may get a better handle on that if we  if we see  Um , I mean we ca it 's if we actually could pick a  a  a more stable value for the range of these features , it , um , uh , could  Uh  Even though it 's  it 's  it 's true that in a real situation you can in fact adjust the  these  these scaling factors in the back - end , and it 's ar artificial here that we 're not adjusting those , you certainly don't wanna be adjusting those all the time. And if you have a nice front - end that 's in roughly the right range


uh , the most obvious thing is just the insertions , @ @. But  Uh  um. If you 're operating in the wrong range  I mean , that 's why just in general , if you  change what these  these penalties and scaling factors are , you reach some point that 's a  that 's a minimum. So. Um. Um. We do have to do well over a range of different conditions , some of which are noisier than others. Um. But , um , I think we may get a better handle on that if we  if we see  Um , I mean we ca it 's if we actually could pick a  a  a more stable value for the range of these features , it , um , uh , could  Uh  Even though it 's  it 's  it 's true that in a real situation you can in fact adjust the  these  these scaling factors in the back - end , and it 's ar artificial here that we 're not adjusting those , you certainly don't wanna be adjusting those all the time. And if you have a nice front - end that 's in roughly the right range

I remember after we got our stuff more or less together in the previous systems we built , that we tended to set those scaling factors at kind of a standard level , and we would rarely adjust them again , even though you could get a


I remember after we got our stuff more or less together in the previous systems we built , that we tended to set those scaling factors at kind of a standard level , and we would rarely adjust them again , even though you could get a

for an evaluation you can get an extra point or something if you tweaked it a little bit. But , once we knew what rou roughly the right operating range was , it was pretty stable , and  Uh , we might just not even be in the right operating range.


I remember after we got our stuff more or less together in the previous systems we built , that we tended to set those scaling factors at kind of a standard level , and we would rarely adjust them again , even though you could get a

for an evaluation you can get an extra point or something if you tweaked it a little bit. But , once we knew what rou roughly the right operating range was , it was pretty stable , and  Uh , we might just not even be in the right operating range.

So , would the  ? Uh , would a good idea be to try to map it into the same range that you get in the well - matched case ? So , if we computed what the range was in well - matched , and then when we get our noisy conditions out we try to make it have the same range as  ?


for an evaluation you can get an extra point or something if you tweaked it a little bit. But , once we knew what rou roughly the right operating range was , it was pretty stable , and  Uh , we might just not even be in the right operating range.

So , would the  ? Uh , would a good idea be to try to map it into the same range that you get in the well - matched case ? So , if we computed what the range was in well - matched , and then when we get our noisy conditions out we try to make it have the same range as  ?

No. You don't wanna change it for different conditions. No. No. I  I  I  What  what I 'm saying


for an evaluation you can get an extra point or something if you tweaked it a little bit. But , once we knew what rou roughly the right operating range was , it was pretty stable , and  Uh , we might just not even be in the right operating range.

So , would the  ? Uh , would a good idea be to try to map it into the same range that you get in the well - matched case ? So , if we computed what the range was in well - matched , and then when we get our noisy conditions out we try to make it have the same range as  ?

No. You don't wanna change it for different conditions. No. No. I  I  I  What  what I 'm saying

Oh , I wasn't suggesting change it for different conditions. I was just saying that when we pick a range , we  we wanna pick a range that we map our numbers into


So , would the  ? Uh , would a good idea be to try to map it into the same range that you get in the well - matched case ? So , if we computed what the range was in well - matched , and then when we get our noisy conditions out we try to make it have the same range as  ?

No. You don't wanna change it for different conditions. No. No. I  I  I  What  what I 'm saying

Oh , I wasn't suggesting change it for different conditions. I was just saying that when we pick a range , we  we wanna pick a range that we map our numbers into


No. You don't wanna change it for different conditions. No. No. I  I  I  What  what I 'm saying

Oh , I wasn't suggesting change it for different conditions. I was just saying that when we pick a range , we  we wanna pick a range that we map our numbers into

we should probably pick it based on the range that we get in the well - matched case. Otherwise , I mean , what range are we gonna choose to  to map everything into ?


Oh , I wasn't suggesting change it for different conditions. I was just saying that when we pick a range , we  we wanna pick a range that we map our numbers into

we should probably pick it based on the range that we get in the well - matched case. Otherwise , I mean , what range are we gonna choose to  to map everything into ?

Well. It depends how much we wanna do gamesmanship and how much we wanna do  I mean , i if he it  to me , actually , even if you wanna be  play on the gamesmanship side , it can be kinda tricky. So , I mean , what you would do is set the  set the scaling factors , uh , so that you got the best number for this point four five times the   you know , and so on.


we should probably pick it based on the range that we get in the well - matched case. Otherwise , I mean , what range are we gonna choose to  to map everything into ?

Well. It depends how much we wanna do gamesmanship and how much we wanna do  I mean , i if he it  to me , actually , even if you wanna be  play on the gamesmanship side , it can be kinda tricky. So , I mean , what you would do is set the  set the scaling factors , uh , so that you got the best number for this point four five times the   you know , and so on.


we should probably pick it based on the range that we get in the well - matched case. Otherwise , I mean , what range are we gonna choose to  to map everything into ?

Well. It depends how much we wanna do gamesmanship and how much we wanna do  I mean , i if he it  to me , actually , even if you wanna be  play on the gamesmanship side , it can be kinda tricky. So , I mean , what you would do is set the  set the scaling factors , uh , so that you got the best number for this point four five times the   you know , and so on.

But they might change that  those weightings.


Well. It depends how much we wanna do gamesmanship and how much we wanna do  I mean , i if he it  to me , actually , even if you wanna be  play on the gamesmanship side , it can be kinda tricky. So , I mean , what you would do is set the  set the scaling factors , uh , so that you got the best number for this point four five times the   you know , and so on.

But they might change that  those weightings.


But they might change that  those weightings.

Um. So  Uh  I just sorta think we need to explore the space. Just take a look at it a little bit.


Um. So  Uh  I just sorta think we need to explore the space. Just take a look at it a little bit.

And we  we  we may just find that  that we 're way off.


And we  we  we may just find that  that we 're way off.

Maybe we 're not. You know ? As for these other things , it may turn out that , uh ,  it 's kind of reasonable. But then  I mean , Andreas gave a very reasonable response , and he 's probably not gonna be the only one who 's gonna say this in the future  of , you know , people  people within this tight - knit community who are doing this evaluation  are accepting , uh , more or less , that these are the rules. But , people outside of it who look in at the broader picture are certainly gonna say " Well , wait a minute. You 're doing all this standing on your head , uh , on the front - end ,


Maybe we 're not. You know ? As for these other things , it may turn out that , uh ,  it 's kind of reasonable. But then  I mean , Andreas gave a very reasonable response , and he 's probably not gonna be the only one who 's gonna say this in the future  of , you know , people  people within this tight - knit community who are doing this evaluation  are accepting , uh , more or less , that these are the rules. But , people outside of it who look in at the broader picture are certainly gonna say " Well , wait a minute. You 're doing all this standing on your head , uh , on the front - end ,

when all you could do is just adjust this in the back - end with one s one knob. "


when all you could do is just adjust this in the back - end with one s one knob. "

And so we have to at least , I think , determine that that 's not true , which would be OK , or determine that it is true , in which case we want to adjust that and then continue with  with what we 're doing. And as you say  as you point out  finding ways to then compensate for that in the front - end  also then becomes a priority for this particular test ,


And so we have to at least , I think , determine that that 's not true , which would be OK , or determine that it is true , in which case we want to adjust that and then continue with  with what we 're doing. And as you say  as you point out  finding ways to then compensate for that in the front - end  also then becomes a priority for this particular test ,


Uh , what 's old with you that 's developed ?


Uh , what 's old with you that 's developed ?

You  OK. What 's old with you that has developed over the last week or two ?


Uh , what 's old with you that 's developed ?

You  OK. What 's old with you that has developed over the last week or two ?

Mmm. Well , so we 've been mainly working on the report and  and  Yeah.


You  OK. What 's old with you that has developed over the last week or two ?

Mmm. Well , so we 've been mainly working on the report and  and  Yeah.


You  OK. What 's old with you that has developed over the last week or two ?

Mmm. Well , so we 've been mainly working on the report and  and  Yeah.

On the report  of the work that was already done.


Mmm. Well , so we 've been mainly working on the report and  and  Yeah.

On the report  of the work that was already done.


On the report  of the work that was already done.


On the report  of the work that was already done.

How about that  ? Any - anything new on the thing that , uh , you were working on with the , uh  ?


How about that  ? Any - anything new on the thing that , uh , you were working on with the , uh  ?


I mean , what what 's  what 's going on now ? What are you  doing ?


I mean , what what 's  what 's going on now ? What are you  doing ?

Uh , to try to found , nnn , robust feature for detect between voice and unvoice. And we  w we try to use  the variance  of the es difference between the FFT spectrum and mel filter bank spectrum.


I mean , what what 's  what 's going on now ? What are you  doing ?

Uh , to try to found , nnn , robust feature for detect between voice and unvoice. And we  w we try to use  the variance  of the es difference between the FFT spectrum and mel filter bank spectrum.

Uh , also the  another parameter is  relates with the auto - correlation function.


Uh , to try to found , nnn , robust feature for detect between voice and unvoice. And we  w we try to use  the variance  of the es difference between the FFT spectrum and mel filter bank spectrum.

Uh , also the  another parameter is  relates with the auto - correlation function.


Uh , also the  another parameter is  relates with the auto - correlation function.

R - ze energy and the variance a also of the auto - correlation function.


Uh , also the  another parameter is  relates with the auto - correlation function.

R - ze energy and the variance a also of the auto - correlation function.

Uh - huh. So , that 's  Yeah. That 's what you were describing , I guess , a week or two ago.


R - ze energy and the variance a also of the auto - correlation function.

Uh - huh. So , that 's  Yeah. That 's what you were describing , I guess , a week or two ago.

Yeah. But we don't have res we don't have result of the AURO for Aurora yet.


Uh - huh. So , that 's  Yeah. That 's what you were describing , I guess , a week or two ago.

Yeah. But we don't have res we don't have result of the AURO for Aurora yet.


Yeah. But we don't have res we don't have result of the AURO for Aurora yet.


So you 're training neural networks now ?


So you 're training neural networks now ?

So , what  wha  wh wha what what 's going on ?


So you 're training neural networks now ?

So , what  wha  wh wha what what 's going on ?

Well , we work in the report , too , because we have a lot of result ,


So , what  wha  wh wha what what 's going on ?

Well , we work in the report , too , because we have a lot of result ,


So , what  wha  wh wha what what 's going on ?

Well , we work in the report , too , because we have a lot of result ,

they are very dispersed , and was necessary to  to look in all the directory to  to  to give some more structure.


Well , we work in the report , too , because we have a lot of result ,

they are very dispersed , and was necessary to  to look in all the directory to  to  to give some more structure.


they are very dispersed , and was necessary to  to look in all the directory to  to  to give some more structure.

So. B So  Yeah. I if I can summarize , basically what 's going on is that you 're going over a lot of material that you have generated in furious fashion , f generating many results and doing many experiments and trying to pull it together into some coherent form to be able to see wha see what happens.


So. B So  Yeah. I if I can summarize , basically what 's going on is that you 're going over a lot of material that you have generated in furious fashion , f generating many results and doing many experiments and trying to pull it together into some coherent form to be able to see wha see what happens.

Uh , y yeah. Basically we we 've stopped , uh , experimenting ,


Uh , y yeah. Basically we we 've stopped , uh , experimenting ,

I mean. We 're just writing some kind of technical report. And


Uh , y yeah. Basically we we 've stopped , uh , experimenting ,

I mean. We 're just writing some kind of technical report. And

Is this a report that 's for Aurora ? Or is it just like a tech report for ICSI ,


I mean. We 're just writing some kind of technical report. And

Is this a report that 's for Aurora ? Or is it just like a tech report for ICSI ,


Is this a report that 's for Aurora ? Or is it just like a tech report for ICSI ,


Just summary of the experiment and the conclusion and something like that.


Just summary of the experiment and the conclusion and something like that.

OK. So , my suggestion , though , is that you  you not necessarily finish that. But that you put it all together so that it 's  you 've got  you 've got a clearer structure to it. You know what things are , you have things documented , you 've looked things up that you needed to look up.


OK. So , my suggestion , though , is that you  you not necessarily finish that. But that you put it all together so that it 's  you 've got  you 've got a clearer structure to it. You know what things are , you have things documented , you 've looked things up that you needed to look up.


OK. So , my suggestion , though , is that you  you not necessarily finish that. But that you put it all together so that it 's  you 've got  you 've got a clearer structure to it. You know what things are , you have things documented , you 've looked things up that you needed to look up.

So that , you know  so that such a thing can be written. And , um  When  when  when do you leave again ?


So that , you know  so that such a thing can be written. And , um  When  when  when do you leave again ?

First of July ? OK. And that you figure on actually finishing it in  in June. Because , you know , you 're gonna have another bunch of results to fit in there anyway.


First of July ? OK. And that you figure on actually finishing it in  in June. Because , you know , you 're gonna have another bunch of results to fit in there anyway.


First of July ? OK. And that you figure on actually finishing it in  in June. Because , you know , you 're gonna have another bunch of results to fit in there anyway.

And right now it 's kind of important that we actually go forward with experiments.


And right now it 's kind of important that we actually go forward with experiments.


And right now it 's kind of important that we actually go forward with experiments.

So  so , I  I think it 's good to pause , and to gather everything together and make sure it 's in good shape , so that other people can get access to it and so that it can go into a report in June. But I think  to  to really work on  on fine - tuning the report n at this point is  is probably bad timing , I  I  think.


And right now it 's kind of important that we actually go forward with experiments.

So  so , I  I think it 's good to pause , and to gather everything together and make sure it 's in good shape , so that other people can get access to it and so that it can go into a report in June. But I think  to  to really work on  on fine - tuning the report n at this point is  is probably bad timing , I  I  think.

Mm - hmm. Yeah. Well , we didn't  we just planned to work on it one week on this report , not  no more , anyway. Um.


So  so , I  I think it 's good to pause , and to gather everything together and make sure it 's in good shape , so that other people can get access to it and so that it can go into a report in June. But I think  to  to really work on  on fine - tuning the report n at this point is  is probably bad timing , I  I  think.

Mm - hmm. Yeah. Well , we didn't  we just planned to work on it one week on this report , not  no more , anyway. Um.

But you ma you may really wanna add other things later anyway


Mm - hmm. Yeah. Well , we didn't  we just planned to work on it one week on this report , not  no more , anyway. Um.

But you ma you may really wanna add other things later anyway


But you ma you may really wanna add other things later anyway


Yeah. Well , so I don't know. There are small things that we started to  to do. But


Yeah. Well , so I don't know. There are small things that we started to  to do. But

Are you discovering anything , uh , that makes you scratch your head as you write this report , like why did we do that , or why didn't we do this ,


Are you discovering anything , uh , that makes you scratch your head as you write this report , like why did we do that , or why didn't we do this ,

Yeah. Yeah. And  Actually , there were some tables that were also with partial results. We just noticed that , wh while gathering the result that for some conditions we didn't have everything.


Yeah. Yeah. And  Actually , there were some tables that were also with partial results. We just noticed that , wh while gathering the result that for some conditions we didn't have everything.


Yeah. Yeah. And  Actually , there were some tables that were also with partial results. We just noticed that , wh while gathering the result that for some conditions we didn't have everything.

But anyway. Um. Yeah , yeah. We have , yeah , extracted actually the noises from  the SpeechDat - Car. And so , we can train neural network with speech and these noises. Um. It 's difficult to say what it will give , because when we look at the Aurora  the TI - digits experiments , um , they have these three conditions that have different noises , and apparently this system perform as well on the seen noises  on the unseen noises and on the seen noises. But , I think this is something we have to try anyway. So  adding the noises from  from the SpeechDat - Car. Um.


Yeah. Yeah. And  Actually , there were some tables that were also with partial results. We just noticed that , wh while gathering the result that for some conditions we didn't have everything.

But anyway. Um. Yeah , yeah. We have , yeah , extracted actually the noises from  the SpeechDat - Car. And so , we can train neural network with speech and these noises. Um. It 's difficult to say what it will give , because when we look at the Aurora  the TI - digits experiments , um , they have these three conditions that have different noises , and apparently this system perform as well on the seen noises  on the unseen noises and on the seen noises. But , I think this is something we have to try anyway. So  adding the noises from  from the SpeechDat - Car. Um.

That 's  that 's , uh  that 's permitted ?


But anyway. Um. Yeah , yeah. We have , yeah , extracted actually the noises from  the SpeechDat - Car. And so , we can train neural network with speech and these noises. Um. It 's difficult to say what it will give , because when we look at the Aurora  the TI - digits experiments , um , they have these three conditions that have different noises , and apparently this system perform as well on the seen noises  on the unseen noises and on the seen noises. But , I think this is something we have to try anyway. So  adding the noises from  from the SpeechDat - Car. Um.

That 's  that 's , uh  that 's permitted ?

Uh. Well , OGI does  did that. Um. At some point they did that for  for the voice activity detector.


That 's  that 's , uh  that 's permitted ?

Uh. Well , OGI does  did that. Um. At some point they did that for  for the voice activity detector.


Uh. Well , OGI does  did that. Um. At some point they did that for  for the voice activity detector.

Could you say it again ? What  what exactly did they do ?


Could you say it again ? What  what exactly did they do ?

They used some parts of the , um , Italian database to train the voice activity detector , I think. It


Could you say it again ? What  what exactly did they do ?

They used some parts of the , um , Italian database to train the voice activity detector , I think. It

Yeah. I guess the thing is  Yeah. I guess that 's a matter of interpretation. The rules as I understand it , is that in principle the Italian and the Spanish and the English  no , Italian and the Finnish and the English ?  were development data


They used some parts of the , um , Italian database to train the voice activity detector , I think. It

Yeah. I guess the thing is  Yeah. I guess that 's a matter of interpretation. The rules as I understand it , is that in principle the Italian and the Spanish and the English  no , Italian and the Finnish and the English ?  were development data

on which you could adjust things. And the  and the German and Danish were the evaluation data.


Yeah. I guess the thing is  Yeah. I guess that 's a matter of interpretation. The rules as I understand it , is that in principle the Italian and the Spanish and the English  no , Italian and the Finnish and the English ?  were development data

on which you could adjust things. And the  and the German and Danish were the evaluation data.


on which you could adjust things. And the  and the German and Danish were the evaluation data.

And then when they finally actually evaluated things they used everything.


And then when they finally actually evaluated things they used everything.

So  Uh , and it is true that the performance , uh , on the German was  I mean , even though the improvement wasn't so good , the pre the raw performance was really pretty good.


So  Uh , and it is true that the performance , uh , on the German was  I mean , even though the improvement wasn't so good , the pre the raw performance was really pretty good.

So  And , uh , it  it doesn't appear that there 's strong evidence that even though things were somewhat tuned on those three or four languages , that  that going to a different language really hurt you. And the noises were not exactly the same. Right ? Because it was taken from a different , uh  I mean they were different drives.


So  And , uh , it  it doesn't appear that there 's strong evidence that even though things were somewhat tuned on those three or four languages , that  that going to a different language really hurt you. And the noises were not exactly the same. Right ? Because it was taken from a different , uh  I mean they were different drives.

I mean , it was  it was actual different cars and so on.


I mean , it was  it was actual different cars and so on.

So. Um , it 's somewhat tuned. It 's tuned more than , you know , a  a  a  a


So. Um , it 's somewhat tuned. It 's tuned more than , you know , a  a  a  a

You 'd really like to have something that needed no particular noise at all , maybe just some white noise or something like that a at most.


You 'd really like to have something that needed no particular noise at all , maybe just some white noise or something like that a at most.

But that 's not really what this contest is. So. Um , I guess it 's OK.


But that 's not really what this contest is. So. Um , I guess it 's OK.

That 's something I 'd like to understand before we actually use something from it ,


That 's something I 'd like to understand before we actually use something from it ,


That 's something I 'd like to understand before we actually use something from it ,

it 's probably something that , mmm , the  you know , the , uh , experiment designers didn't really think about , because I think most people aren't doing trained systems , or , you know , uh , systems that are like ours , where you actually use the data to build models. I mean , they just  doing signal - processing.


it 's probably something that , mmm , the  you know , the , uh , experiment designers didn't really think about , because I think most people aren't doing trained systems , or , you know , uh , systems that are like ours , where you actually use the data to build models. I mean , they just  doing signal - processing.


except that , uh , that 's what we used in Aurora one , and then they designed the things for Aurora - two knowing that we were doing that.


except that , uh , that 's what we used in Aurora one , and then they designed the things for Aurora - two knowing that we were doing that.

And they didn't forbid us  right ?  to build models on the data ?


And they didn't forbid us  right ?  to build models on the data ?

No. But , I think  I think that it  it  it probably would be the case that if , say , we trained on Italian , uh , data and then , uh , we tested on Danish data and it did terribly , uh , that  that it would look bad. And I think someone would notice and would say " Well , look. This is not generalizing. " I would hope tha I would hope they would.


And they didn't forbid us  right ?  to build models on the data ?

No. But , I think  I think that it  it  it probably would be the case that if , say , we trained on Italian , uh , data and then , uh , we tested on Danish data and it did terribly , uh , that  that it would look bad. And I think someone would notice and would say " Well , look. This is not generalizing. " I would hope tha I would hope they would.

Um. But , uh , it 's true. You know , maybe there 's parameters that other people have used  you know , th that they have tuned in some way for other things. So it 's  it 's , uh  We should  we should  Maybe  that 's maybe a topic  Especially if you talk with him when I 'm not here , that 's a topic you should discuss with Hynek


No. But , I think  I think that it  it  it probably would be the case that if , say , we trained on Italian , uh , data and then , uh , we tested on Danish data and it did terribly , uh , that  that it would look bad. And I think someone would notice and would say " Well , look. This is not generalizing. " I would hope tha I would hope they would.

Um. But , uh , it 's true. You know , maybe there 's parameters that other people have used  you know , th that they have tuned in some way for other things. So it 's  it 's , uh  We should  we should  Maybe  that 's maybe a topic  Especially if you talk with him when I 'm not here , that 's a topic you should discuss with Hynek


Um. But , uh , it 's true. You know , maybe there 's parameters that other people have used  you know , th that they have tuned in some way for other things. So it 's  it 's , uh  We should  we should  Maybe  that 's maybe a topic  Especially if you talk with him when I 'm not here , that 's a topic you should discuss with Hynek


Um. But , uh , it 's true. You know , maybe there 's parameters that other people have used  you know , th that they have tuned in some way for other things. So it 's  it 's , uh  We should  we should  Maybe  that 's maybe a topic  Especially if you talk with him when I 'm not here , that 's a topic you should discuss with Hynek

Do we know anything about  the speakers for each of the , uh , training utterances ?


Do we know anything about  the speakers for each of the , uh , training utterances ?


Well , I was thinking about things like , you know , gender , uh  you know , gender - specific nets and , uh , vocal tract length normalization.


Well , I was thinking about things like , you know , gender , uh  you know , gender - specific nets and , uh , vocal tract length normalization.

Things like that. I d I don't  I didn't know what information we have about the speakers that we could try to take advantage of.


Things like that. I d I don't  I didn't know what information we have about the speakers that we could try to take advantage of.

Hmm. Uh. Right. I mean , again , i if you had the whole system you were optimizing , that would be easy to see. But if you 're  supposedly just using a fixed back - end and you 're just coming up with a feature vector , w w I 'm not sure  I mean , having the two nets  Suppose you detected that it was male , it was female  you come up with different


Things like that. I d I don't  I didn't know what information we have about the speakers that we could try to take advantage of.

Hmm. Uh. Right. I mean , again , i if you had the whole system you were optimizing , that would be easy to see. But if you 're  supposedly just using a fixed back - end and you 're just coming up with a feature vector , w w I 'm not sure  I mean , having the two nets  Suppose you detected that it was male , it was female  you come up with different

Well , you could put them both in as separate streams or something. Uh.


Hmm. Uh. Right. I mean , again , i if you had the whole system you were optimizing , that would be easy to see. But if you 're  supposedly just using a fixed back - end and you 're just coming up with a feature vector , w w I 'm not sure  I mean , having the two nets  Suppose you detected that it was male , it was female  you come up with different

Well , you could put them both in as separate streams or something. Uh.


Well , you could put them both in as separate streams or something. Uh.

I don't know. I was just wondering if there was other information we could exploit.


I don't know. I was just wondering if there was other information we could exploit.


I don't know. I was just wondering if there was other information we could exploit.

Hmm. Yeah , it 's an interesting thought. Maybe having something along the  I mean , you can't really do vocal tract normalization. But something that had some of that effect


Hmm. Yeah , it 's an interesting thought. Maybe having something along the  I mean , you can't really do vocal tract normalization. But something that had some of that effect


Do you have something simple in mind for  I mean , vocal tract length normalization ?


Do you have something simple in mind for  I mean , vocal tract length normalization ?

Uh no. I hadn't  I hadn't thought  it was  thought too much about it , really. It just  something that popped into my head just now. And so I  I  I mean , you could maybe use the ideas  a similar  idea to what they do in vocal tract length normalization. You know , you have some sort of a , uh , general speech model , you know , maybe just a mixture of Gaussians that you evaluate every utterance against , and then you see where each , you know , utterance  like , the likelihood of each utterance. You divide the  the range of the likelihoods up into discrete bins and then each bin 's got some knob  uh , setting.


Do you have something simple in mind for  I mean , vocal tract length normalization ?

Uh no. I hadn't  I hadn't thought  it was  thought too much about it , really. It just  something that popped into my head just now. And so I  I  I mean , you could maybe use the ideas  a similar  idea to what they do in vocal tract length normalization. You know , you have some sort of a , uh , general speech model , you know , maybe just a mixture of Gaussians that you evaluate every utterance against , and then you see where each , you know , utterance  like , the likelihood of each utterance. You divide the  the range of the likelihoods up into discrete bins and then each bin 's got some knob  uh , setting.

Yeah. But just listen to yourself. I mean , that uh really doesn't sound like a real - time thing with less than two hundred milliseconds , uh , latency that  and where you 're not adjusting the statistical engine at all.


Uh no. I hadn't  I hadn't thought  it was  thought too much about it , really. It just  something that popped into my head just now. And so I  I  I mean , you could maybe use the ideas  a similar  idea to what they do in vocal tract length normalization. You know , you have some sort of a , uh , general speech model , you know , maybe just a mixture of Gaussians that you evaluate every utterance against , and then you see where each , you know , utterance  like , the likelihood of each utterance. You divide the  the range of the likelihoods up into discrete bins and then each bin 's got some knob  uh , setting.

Yeah. But just listen to yourself. I mean , that uh really doesn't sound like a real - time thing with less than two hundred milliseconds , uh , latency that  and where you 're not adjusting the statistical engine at all.


Yeah. But just listen to yourself. I mean , that uh really doesn't sound like a real - time thing with less than two hundred milliseconds , uh , latency that  and where you 're not adjusting the statistical engine at all.


No. Well not just expensive. I  I  I don't see how you could possibly do it. You can't look at the whole utterance and do anything. You know , you can only  Right ?


No. Well not just expensive. I  I  I don't see how you could possibly do it. You can't look at the whole utterance and do anything. You know , you can only  Right ?

Each frame comes in and it 's gotta go out the other end.


Each frame comes in and it 's gotta go out the other end.


Each frame comes in and it 's gotta go out the other end.

Right. So whatever it was , it would have to be uh sort of on a per frame basis.


Right. So whatever it was , it would have to be uh sort of on a per frame basis.


Right. So whatever it was , it would have to be uh sort of on a per frame basis.

Yeah. I mean , you can do , um  Fairly quickly you can do male female  f male female stuff.


Yeah. I mean , you can do , um  Fairly quickly you can do male female  f male female stuff.


Yeah. I mean , you can do , um  Fairly quickly you can do male female  f male female stuff.

But as far as , I mean  Like I thought BBN did a thing with , uh , uh , vocal tract normalization a ways back. Maybe other people did too. With  with , uh , uh , l trying to identify third formant  average third formant   using that as an indicator of


But as far as , I mean  Like I thought BBN did a thing with , uh , uh , vocal tract normalization a ways back. Maybe other people did too. With  with , uh , uh , l trying to identify third formant  average third formant   using that as an indicator of

So. You know , third formant  I if you imagine that to first order what happens with , uh , changing vocal tract is that , uh , the formants get moved out by some proportion


So. You know , third formant  I if you imagine that to first order what happens with , uh , changing vocal tract is that , uh , the formants get moved out by some proportion

So , if you had a first formant that was one hundred hertz before , if the fifty  if the vocal tract is fifty percent shorter , then it would be out at seven fifty hertz , and so on. So , that 's a move of two hundred fifty hertz. Whereas the third formant which might have started off at twenty - five hundred hertz , you know , might be out to thirty - seven fifty , you know so it 's at  So , although , you frequently get less distinct higher formants , it 's still  third formant 's kind of a reasonable compromise , and


So , if you had a first formant that was one hundred hertz before , if the fifty  if the vocal tract is fifty percent shorter , then it would be out at seven fifty hertz , and so on. So , that 's a move of two hundred fifty hertz. Whereas the third formant which might have started off at twenty - five hundred hertz , you know , might be out to thirty - seven fifty , you know so it 's at  So , although , you frequently get less distinct higher formants , it 's still  third formant 's kind of a reasonable compromise , and

So , I think , eh , if I recall correctly , they did something like that. And  and


So , I think , eh , if I recall correctly , they did something like that. And  and

But  Um , that doesn't work for just having one frame or something.


But  Um , that doesn't work for just having one frame or something.


But  Um , that doesn't work for just having one frame or something.

You know ? That 's more like looking at third formant over  over a turn or something like that ,


You know ? That 's more like looking at third formant over  over a turn or something like that ,


Um. So. But on the other hand , male female is a  is a  is a much simpler categorization than figuring out a  a factor to , uh , squish or expand the  the spectrum.


Um. So. But on the other hand , male female is a  is a  is a much simpler categorization than figuring out a  a factor to , uh , squish or expand the  the spectrum.

So , um. Y you could imagine that  I mean , just like we 're saying voiced - unvoiced is good to know  uh , male female is good to know also. Um.


So , um. Y you could imagine that  I mean , just like we 're saying voiced - unvoiced is good to know  uh , male female is good to know also. Um.

But , you 'd have to figure out a way to  to  to , uh , incorporate it on the fly. Uh , I mean , I guess , as you say , one thing you could do is simply , uh , have the  the male and female output vectors  you know , tr nets trained only on males and n trained only on females or  or , uh , you know. But  Um. I don't know if that would really help , because you already have males and females and it 's mm - hmm putting into one net. So is it  ?


So , um. Y you could imagine that  I mean , just like we 're saying voiced - unvoiced is good to know  uh , male female is good to know also. Um.

But , you 'd have to figure out a way to  to  to , uh , incorporate it on the fly. Uh , I mean , I guess , as you say , one thing you could do is simply , uh , have the  the male and female output vectors  you know , tr nets trained only on males and n trained only on females or  or , uh , you know. But  Um. I don't know if that would really help , because you already have males and females and it 's mm - hmm putting into one net. So is it  ?

Is it balanced , um , in terms of gender  the data ?


But , you 'd have to figure out a way to  to  to , uh , incorporate it on the fly. Uh , I mean , I guess , as you say , one thing you could do is simply , uh , have the  the male and female output vectors  you know , tr nets trained only on males and n trained only on females or  or , uh , you know. But  Um. I don't know if that would really help , because you already have males and females and it 's mm - hmm putting into one net. So is it  ?

Is it balanced , um , in terms of gender  the data ?


Is it balanced , um , in terms of gender  the data ?


Hmm. OK. Y you 're  you were saying before  ?


Hmm. OK. Y you 're  you were saying before  ?

Uh. Yeah. So , this noise , um  Yeah. The MSG  Um. Mmm. There is something  perhaps , I could spend some days to look at this thing , cuz it seems that when we train networks on  let 's say , on TIMIT with MSG features , they  they look as good as networks trained on PLP. But , um , when they are used on  on the SpeechDat - Car data , it 's not the case  oh , well. The MSG features are much worse , and so maybe they 're , um , less  more sensitive to different recording conditions , or  Shou


Uh. Yeah. So , this noise , um  Yeah. The MSG  Um. Mmm. There is something  perhaps , I could spend some days to look at this thing , cuz it seems that when we train networks on  let 's say , on TIMIT with MSG features , they  they look as good as networks trained on PLP. But , um , when they are used on  on the SpeechDat - Car data , it 's not the case  oh , well. The MSG features are much worse , and so maybe they 're , um , less  more sensitive to different recording conditions , or  Shou


Wh - ? But let me ask you this. What  what 's the , um  ? Do you kno recall if the insertions were  were higher with MSG ?


Wh - ? But let me ask you this. What  what 's the , um  ? Do you kno recall if the insertions were  were higher with MSG ?

I don't know. I cannot tell. But  It 's  it  the  the error rate is higher. So , I don


Wh - ? But let me ask you this. What  what 's the , um  ? Do you kno recall if the insertions were  were higher with MSG ?

I don't know. I cannot tell. But  It 's  it  the  the error rate is higher. So , I don

Yeah. But you should always look at insertions , deletions , and substitutions.


I don't know. I cannot tell. But  It 's  it  the  the error rate is higher. So , I don

Yeah. But you should always look at insertions , deletions , and substitutions.


Yeah. But you should always look at insertions , deletions , and substitutions.


so , uh  MSG is very , very dif Eh , PLP is very much like mel cepstrum. MSG is very different from both of them.


so , uh  MSG is very , very dif Eh , PLP is very much like mel cepstrum. MSG is very different from both of them.

So , if it 's very different , then this is the sort of thing  I mean I 'm really glad Andreas brought this point up. I  sort of had forgotten to discuss it. Um. You always have to look at how this  uh , these adjustments , uh , affect things. And even though we 're not allowed to do that , again we maybe could reflect that back to our use of the features.


So , if it 's very different , then this is the sort of thing  I mean I 'm really glad Andreas brought this point up. I  sort of had forgotten to discuss it. Um. You always have to look at how this  uh , these adjustments , uh , affect things. And even though we 're not allowed to do that , again we maybe could reflect that back to our use of the features.

So if it  if in fact , uh  The problem might be that the range of the MSG features is quite different than the range of the PLP or mel cepstrum.


So if it  if in fact , uh  The problem might be that the range of the MSG features is quite different than the range of the PLP or mel cepstrum.


So if it  if in fact , uh  The problem might be that the range of the MSG features is quite different than the range of the PLP or mel cepstrum.

But  Yeah. But , it 's d it 's after  Well , it 's tandem features , so  Mmm.


But  Yeah. But , it 's d it 's after  Well , it 's tandem features , so  Mmm.


But  Yeah. But , it 's d it 's after  Well , it 's tandem features , so  Mmm.

Yeah. We  we have estimation of post posteriors with PLP and with MSG as input ,


Yeah. We  we have estimation of post posteriors with PLP and with MSG as input ,


Yeah. We  we have estimation of post posteriors with PLP and with MSG as input ,

That means they 're between zero and one.


That means they 're between zero and one.


That means they 're between zero and one.

But i it  it  it  it doesn't necessarily  You know , they could be , um  Do - doesn't tell you what the variance of the things is.


But i it  it  it  it doesn't necessarily  You know , they could be , um  Do - doesn't tell you what the variance of the things is.

Right ? Cuz if you 're taking the log of these things , it could be , uh  Knowing what the sum of the probabilities are , doesn't tell you what the sum of the logs are.


Right ? Cuz if you 're taking the log of these things , it could be , uh  Knowing what the sum of the probabilities are , doesn't tell you what the sum of the logs are.