I'm just going to pause the time for a moment. I want to remind honourable members that we're trying to stay within committee rules, which state that the length of a question and the length of an answer should be approximately the same amount of time. I just want to remind our members of that. I'll go back to Ms. Collins. She has about 45 seconds left, and hopefully that's about half and half for the question and the answer. Ms. Collins.

Thanks so much, Mr. Chair. My last question is about housing and homelessness. My community was facing a crisis long before the pandemic hit, and now people who are living on the streets or in parks don't have the luxury of following public health advice and just staying home. In Victoria, the province and the municipality have stepped up with solutions to house people, at least for the short term, in local hotels. Will the federal government respond to this immediate crisis and provide the needed investments in long-term, stable housing?

The right honourable Prime Minister, in 25 seconds or less, please.

Yes, Mr. Chair, we have moved forward with a historic national housing strategy that puts $40 billion toward housing. Working with partners, we have reduced poverty by over a million people in this country, but there is more to do. We are reducing homelessness by half with historic investments. We recognize that during this pandemic there's even more to do for vulnerable Canadians, and we are partnering with orders of government to make sure that happens.


Thanks so much, Mr. Chair. My last question is about housing and homelessness. My community was facing a crisis long before the pandemic hit, and now people who are living on the streets or in parks don't have the luxury of following public health advice and just staying home. In Victoria, the province and the municipality have stepped up with solutions to house people, at least for the short term, in local hotels. Will the federal government respond to this immediate crisis and provide the needed investments in long-term, stable housing?

The right honourable Prime Minister, in 25 seconds or less, please.

Yes, Mr. Chair, we have moved forward with a historic national housing strategy that puts $40 billion toward housing. Working with partners, we have reduced poverty by over a million people in this country, but there is more to do. We are reducing homelessness by half with historic investments. We recognize that during this pandemic there's even more to do for vulnerable Canadians, and we are partnering with orders of government to make sure that happens.


The right honourable Prime Minister, in 25 seconds or less, please.

Yes, Mr. Chair, we have moved forward with a historic national housing strategy that puts $40 billion toward housing. Working with partners, we have reduced poverty by over a million people in this country, but there is more to do. We are reducing homelessness by half with historic investments. We recognize that during this pandemic there's even more to do for vulnerable Canadians, and we are partnering with orders of government to make sure that happens.


Yes, Mr. Chair, we have moved forward with a historic national housing strategy that puts $40 billion toward housing. Working with partners, we have reduced poverty by over a million people in this country, but there is more to do. We are reducing homelessness by half with historic investments. We recognize that during this pandemic there's even more to do for vulnerable Canadians, and we are partnering with orders of government to make sure that happens.

Mr.Chair, I cannot hear the French interpretation. Could we please check so that I can hear in French what the Prime Minister is saying?


Mr.Chair, I cannot hear the French interpretation. Could we please check so that I can hear in French what the Prime Minister is saying?


Mr.Chair, I cannot hear the French interpretation. Could we please check so that I can hear in French what the Prime Minister is saying?

I can try speaking English. I believe I was on the English tab, as is important. Are you hearing the translation now?


I can try speaking English. I believe I was on the English tab, as is important. Are you hearing the translation now?

That is exactly what the issue was. I just want to point that out to all the members. I'm speaking English right now and I'm on the English toggle at the bottom of the screen. It does create a bit of a disjoint when we're speaking, but it's the way to get around that so we have interpretation that works for everyone. The next question will go to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.


I can try speaking English. I believe I was on the English tab, as is important. Are you hearing the translation now?

That is exactly what the issue was. I just want to point that out to all the members. I'm speaking English right now and I'm on the English toggle at the bottom of the screen. It does create a bit of a disjoint when we're speaking, but it's the way to get around that so we have interpretation that works for everyone. The next question will go to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Chair, as this is our first opportunity to meet in any forum, I want to take this opportunity to express my condolences to the families of the brave men and women who lost their lives in the helicopter crash. I know that I speak for all parliamentarians when I extend our sympathy to their families and loved ones. Mr. Chair, I want to raise with the Prime Minister an issue that I've raised several times before, and that is a gap in the wage subsidy program. There is a company in my riding that employs thousands of people across the country. Last year, they acquired another company. Those companies separately would qualify for the wage subsidy, but because of rules that the government designed, together they do not. Even though collectively they have experienced a massive drop in revenue and would otherwise be eligible, so far they've been unable to get confirmation that they will be able to access the program. As a result, thousands of jobs are threatened. Will the Prime Minister be able to deliver some good news to people who work for Brandt Tractor all across the country?


I can try speaking English. I believe I was on the English tab, as is important. Are you hearing the translation now?

That is exactly what the issue was. I just want to point that out to all the members. I'm speaking English right now and I'm on the English toggle at the bottom of the screen. It does create a bit of a disjoint when we're speaking, but it's the way to get around that so we have interpretation that works for everyone. The next question will go to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Chair, as this is our first opportunity to meet in any forum, I want to take this opportunity to express my condolences to the families of the brave men and women who lost their lives in the helicopter crash. I know that I speak for all parliamentarians when I extend our sympathy to their families and loved ones. Mr. Chair, I want to raise with the Prime Minister an issue that I've raised several times before, and that is a gap in the wage subsidy program. There is a company in my riding that employs thousands of people across the country. Last year, they acquired another company. Those companies separately would qualify for the wage subsidy, but because of rules that the government designed, together they do not. Even though collectively they have experienced a massive drop in revenue and would otherwise be eligible, so far they've been unable to get confirmation that they will be able to access the program. As a result, thousands of jobs are threatened. Will the Prime Minister be able to deliver some good news to people who work for Brandt Tractor all across the country?

I thank the honourable member for his question and for his advocacy for his community and businesses in his riding. As I told him when we spoke directly, Finance officials have been directly in contact with the company in his riding. We recognize that there are particular elements in regard to this company that are challenging around application for the wage subsidy, but I know that Finance officials are working very hard to try to make sure that everyone who needs the subsidy gets it, so that the workers in his community can get the support they need.


That is exactly what the issue was. I just want to point that out to all the members. I'm speaking English right now and I'm on the English toggle at the bottom of the screen. It does create a bit of a disjoint when we're speaking, but it's the way to get around that so we have interpretation that works for everyone. The next question will go to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Chair, as this is our first opportunity to meet in any forum, I want to take this opportunity to express my condolences to the families of the brave men and women who lost their lives in the helicopter crash. I know that I speak for all parliamentarians when I extend our sympathy to their families and loved ones. Mr. Chair, I want to raise with the Prime Minister an issue that I've raised several times before, and that is a gap in the wage subsidy program. There is a company in my riding that employs thousands of people across the country. Last year, they acquired another company. Those companies separately would qualify for the wage subsidy, but because of rules that the government designed, together they do not. Even though collectively they have experienced a massive drop in revenue and would otherwise be eligible, so far they've been unable to get confirmation that they will be able to access the program. As a result, thousands of jobs are threatened. Will the Prime Minister be able to deliver some good news to people who work for Brandt Tractor all across the country?

I thank the honourable member for his question and for his advocacy for his community and businesses in his riding. As I told him when we spoke directly, Finance officials have been directly in contact with the company in his riding. We recognize that there are particular elements in regard to this company that are challenging around application for the wage subsidy, but I know that Finance officials are working very hard to try to make sure that everyone who needs the subsidy gets it, so that the workers in his community can get the support they need.

The Prime Minister knows that there are many companies across the country that fall into this category as well, so we're hoping for some good news. Just flagging the time and date, it is well into May now and important decisions have to be made in very short order. There are other aspects of the government's plans to help get people through this crisis that are also causing people to fall through the cracks. The plan to help businesses with rent applies only after a business has lost 70% of their revenue. As provinces start to open up, many companies are going to be faced with a very difficult decision of operating at perhaps 35% or 45% of regular revenues. They will not be able to access these programs and, in many cases, there is going to be a disincentive to reopen and put people back to work. Will the Prime Minister amend these programs to provide for more flexibility so that more and more Canadians can start to return to work in the weeks ahead?


Mr. Chair, as this is our first opportunity to meet in any forum, I want to take this opportunity to express my condolences to the families of the brave men and women who lost their lives in the helicopter crash. I know that I speak for all parliamentarians when I extend our sympathy to their families and loved ones. Mr. Chair, I want to raise with the Prime Minister an issue that I've raised several times before, and that is a gap in the wage subsidy program. There is a company in my riding that employs thousands of people across the country. Last year, they acquired another company. Those companies separately would qualify for the wage subsidy, but because of rules that the government designed, together they do not. Even though collectively they have experienced a massive drop in revenue and would otherwise be eligible, so far they've been unable to get confirmation that they will be able to access the program. As a result, thousands of jobs are threatened. Will the Prime Minister be able to deliver some good news to people who work for Brandt Tractor all across the country?

I thank the honourable member for his question and for his advocacy for his community and businesses in his riding. As I told him when we spoke directly, Finance officials have been directly in contact with the company in his riding. We recognize that there are particular elements in regard to this company that are challenging around application for the wage subsidy, but I know that Finance officials are working very hard to try to make sure that everyone who needs the subsidy gets it, so that the workers in his community can get the support they need.

The Prime Minister knows that there are many companies across the country that fall into this category as well, so we're hoping for some good news. Just flagging the time and date, it is well into May now and important decisions have to be made in very short order. There are other aspects of the government's plans to help get people through this crisis that are also causing people to fall through the cracks. The plan to help businesses with rent applies only after a business has lost 70% of their revenue. As provinces start to open up, many companies are going to be faced with a very difficult decision of operating at perhaps 35% or 45% of regular revenues. They will not be able to access these programs and, in many cases, there is going to be a disincentive to reopen and put people back to work. Will the Prime Minister amend these programs to provide for more flexibility so that more and more Canadians can start to return to work in the weeks ahead?

Mr. Chair, we are in an unprecedented crisis and we had to move quickly to support workers and to support families across the country, and that's exactly what we did. We're going to continue to work to try to respond to the reality that people and businesses are facing right across the country. I am eager to be faced with the challenge of how to ease off in these measures so that people can get back to work. We are getting closer to that point, but we are not there yet. We are still focused very much on giving the supports to workers and families that are so necessary in this time of crisis. As different provinces move forward towards reopening, as we look at different paths forward, I know that I will be able to count on all members in the House and, indeed, on Canadians from coast to coast to coast to figure out together what the best way will be to move forward on keeping us safe and restoring economic activity in the right way. That will be good to work on together once we get there.


I thank the honourable member for his question and for his advocacy for his community and businesses in his riding. As I told him when we spoke directly, Finance officials have been directly in contact with the company in his riding. We recognize that there are particular elements in regard to this company that are challenging around application for the wage subsidy, but I know that Finance officials are working very hard to try to make sure that everyone who needs the subsidy gets it, so that the workers in his community can get the support they need.

The Prime Minister knows that there are many companies across the country that fall into this category as well, so we're hoping for some good news. Just flagging the time and date, it is well into May now and important decisions have to be made in very short order. There are other aspects of the government's plans to help get people through this crisis that are also causing people to fall through the cracks. The plan to help businesses with rent applies only after a business has lost 70% of their revenue. As provinces start to open up, many companies are going to be faced with a very difficult decision of operating at perhaps 35% or 45% of regular revenues. They will not be able to access these programs and, in many cases, there is going to be a disincentive to reopen and put people back to work. Will the Prime Minister amend these programs to provide for more flexibility so that more and more Canadians can start to return to work in the weeks ahead?

Mr. Chair, we are in an unprecedented crisis and we had to move quickly to support workers and to support families across the country, and that's exactly what we did. We're going to continue to work to try to respond to the reality that people and businesses are facing right across the country. I am eager to be faced with the challenge of how to ease off in these measures so that people can get back to work. We are getting closer to that point, but we are not there yet. We are still focused very much on giving the supports to workers and families that are so necessary in this time of crisis. As different provinces move forward towards reopening, as we look at different paths forward, I know that I will be able to count on all members in the House and, indeed, on Canadians from coast to coast to coast to figure out together what the best way will be to move forward on keeping us safe and restoring economic activity in the right way. That will be good to work on together once we get there.

We have about a minute left for maybe a 30-second question and a 30-second answer. Mr. Scheer.


The Prime Minister knows that there are many companies across the country that fall into this category as well, so we're hoping for some good news. Just flagging the time and date, it is well into May now and important decisions have to be made in very short order. There are other aspects of the government's plans to help get people through this crisis that are also causing people to fall through the cracks. The plan to help businesses with rent applies only after a business has lost 70% of their revenue. As provinces start to open up, many companies are going to be faced with a very difficult decision of operating at perhaps 35% or 45% of regular revenues. They will not be able to access these programs and, in many cases, there is going to be a disincentive to reopen and put people back to work. Will the Prime Minister amend these programs to provide for more flexibility so that more and more Canadians can start to return to work in the weeks ahead?

Mr. Chair, we are in an unprecedented crisis and we had to move quickly to support workers and to support families across the country, and that's exactly what we did. We're going to continue to work to try to respond to the reality that people and businesses are facing right across the country. I am eager to be faced with the challenge of how to ease off in these measures so that people can get back to work. We are getting closer to that point, but we are not there yet. We are still focused very much on giving the supports to workers and families that are so necessary in this time of crisis. As different provinces move forward towards reopening, as we look at different paths forward, I know that I will be able to count on all members in the House and, indeed, on Canadians from coast to coast to coast to figure out together what the best way will be to move forward on keeping us safe and restoring economic activity in the right way. That will be good to work on together once we get there.

We have about a minute left for maybe a 30-second question and a 30-second answer. Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Chair, no one is disputing the need to move quickly. We are now in May, though, and these programs have been announced for weeks. Canadians have been accessing them. The problems with them have been flagged for the government for weeks as well, but we're also going to see an additional challenge, where people who are receiving the emergency response benefit, who may have the option to go back to work and work some hours, are faced with a hard cap of $1,000 a month before they lose the CERB. Conservatives are proposing a progressive system, a more flexible system, where people will be able to earn more without losing their benefits as businesses ramp up but before normal working hours are restored. Again, will the Prime Minister build in some flexibility to lift the restrictive ceiling on what people can earn before losing benefits so that it always pays more to work?


Mr. Chair, we are in an unprecedented crisis and we had to move quickly to support workers and to support families across the country, and that's exactly what we did. We're going to continue to work to try to respond to the reality that people and businesses are facing right across the country. I am eager to be faced with the challenge of how to ease off in these measures so that people can get back to work. We are getting closer to that point, but we are not there yet. We are still focused very much on giving the supports to workers and families that are so necessary in this time of crisis. As different provinces move forward towards reopening, as we look at different paths forward, I know that I will be able to count on all members in the House and, indeed, on Canadians from coast to coast to coast to figure out together what the best way will be to move forward on keeping us safe and restoring economic activity in the right way. That will be good to work on together once we get there.

We have about a minute left for maybe a 30-second question and a 30-second answer. Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Chair, no one is disputing the need to move quickly. We are now in May, though, and these programs have been announced for weeks. Canadians have been accessing them. The problems with them have been flagged for the government for weeks as well, but we're also going to see an additional challenge, where people who are receiving the emergency response benefit, who may have the option to go back to work and work some hours, are faced with a hard cap of $1,000 a month before they lose the CERB. Conservatives are proposing a progressive system, a more flexible system, where people will be able to earn more without losing their benefits as businesses ramp up but before normal working hours are restored. Again, will the Prime Minister build in some flexibility to lift the restrictive ceiling on what people can earn before losing benefits so that it always pays more to work?

I believe the timer is telling all of us that the time is up, but I'll give the right honourable Prime Minister about 30 seconds to answer that, please.


We have about a minute left for maybe a 30-second question and a 30-second answer. Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Chair, no one is disputing the need to move quickly. We are now in May, though, and these programs have been announced for weeks. Canadians have been accessing them. The problems with them have been flagged for the government for weeks as well, but we're also going to see an additional challenge, where people who are receiving the emergency response benefit, who may have the option to go back to work and work some hours, are faced with a hard cap of $1,000 a month before they lose the CERB. Conservatives are proposing a progressive system, a more flexible system, where people will be able to earn more without losing their benefits as businesses ramp up but before normal working hours are restored. Again, will the Prime Minister build in some flexibility to lift the restrictive ceiling on what people can earn before losing benefits so that it always pays more to work?

I believe the timer is telling all of us that the time is up, but I'll give the right honourable Prime Minister about 30 seconds to answer that, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our priority was getting support for Canadians right across the country with the CERB, with the wage subsidy and with other measures for students, for seniors, for farmers and for agricultural producers. That has been our priority, and that's what we have worked on. I hear the concerns that the Conservative Party has around disincentives. We are going to work with communities and with industry as we look to reopen, to make sure that people have opportunities to work and are not penalized for it. However, our overarching priority was allowing Canadians to be confident in their ability to stay home, care for their loved ones, buy groceries and pay their rent so that we could keep safe during this pandemic. That's exactly what we did.


Mr. Chair, no one is disputing the need to move quickly. We are now in May, though, and these programs have been announced for weeks. Canadians have been accessing them. The problems with them have been flagged for the government for weeks as well, but we're also going to see an additional challenge, where people who are receiving the emergency response benefit, who may have the option to go back to work and work some hours, are faced with a hard cap of $1,000 a month before they lose the CERB. Conservatives are proposing a progressive system, a more flexible system, where people will be able to earn more without losing their benefits as businesses ramp up but before normal working hours are restored. Again, will the Prime Minister build in some flexibility to lift the restrictive ceiling on what people can earn before losing benefits so that it always pays more to work?

I believe the timer is telling all of us that the time is up, but I'll give the right honourable Prime Minister about 30 seconds to answer that, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our priority was getting support for Canadians right across the country with the CERB, with the wage subsidy and with other measures for students, for seniors, for farmers and for agricultural producers. That has been our priority, and that's what we have worked on. I hear the concerns that the Conservative Party has around disincentives. We are going to work with communities and with industry as we look to reopen, to make sure that people have opportunities to work and are not penalized for it. However, our overarching priority was allowing Canadians to be confident in their ability to stay home, care for their loved ones, buy groceries and pay their rent so that we could keep safe during this pandemic. That's exactly what we did.


I believe the timer is telling all of us that the time is up, but I'll give the right honourable Prime Minister about 30 seconds to answer that, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our priority was getting support for Canadians right across the country with the CERB, with the wage subsidy and with other measures for students, for seniors, for farmers and for agricultural producers. That has been our priority, and that's what we have worked on. I hear the concerns that the Conservative Party has around disincentives. We are going to work with communities and with industry as we look to reopen, to make sure that people have opportunities to work and are not penalized for it. However, our overarching priority was allowing Canadians to be confident in their ability to stay home, care for their loved ones, buy groceries and pay their rent so that we could keep safe during this pandemic. That's exactly what we did.

Mr. Chair, seniors in my riding are struggling. We've heard the Prime Minister admit that fixed incomes for some of them are down, rent is increasing and the price of groceries is increasing. He's been saying for weeks that in the coming days, something would be announced for seniors. The fact is that the Liberals ran on an election promise to increase the old age security. Which of the days in the coming weeks will they keep their promise to seniors?


Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our priority was getting support for Canadians right across the country with the CERB, with the wage subsidy and with other measures for students, for seniors, for farmers and for agricultural producers. That has been our priority, and that's what we have worked on. I hear the concerns that the Conservative Party has around disincentives. We are going to work with communities and with industry as we look to reopen, to make sure that people have opportunities to work and are not penalized for it. However, our overarching priority was allowing Canadians to be confident in their ability to stay home, care for their loved ones, buy groceries and pay their rent so that we could keep safe during this pandemic. That's exactly what we did.

Mr. Chair, seniors in my riding are struggling. We've heard the Prime Minister admit that fixed incomes for some of them are down, rent is increasing and the price of groceries is increasing. He's been saying for weeks that in the coming days, something would be announced for seniors. The fact is that the Liberals ran on an election promise to increase the old age security. Which of the days in the coming weeks will they keep their promise to seniors?

Mr. Chair, after a lifetime of hard work, of course Canadians deserve peace of mind when it comes to their retirement security. COVID-19 is definitely having a disproportionate impact on seniors. They have a greater need for services and supports. Happily, their pensions and their benefits are still flowing, unlike for so many of those who have lost their jobs, but it's still tough. We introduced measures  Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Which day?   Hon. Deb Schulte: at the beginning of April. People received a GST credit, a supplementary payment that was $400 on average for single seniors and $600 for couples. That was of significant help to low- and moderate-income seniors.


Mr. Chair, seniors in my riding are struggling. We've heard the Prime Minister admit that fixed incomes for some of them are down, rent is increasing and the price of groceries is increasing. He's been saying for weeks that in the coming days, something would be announced for seniors. The fact is that the Liberals ran on an election promise to increase the old age security. Which of the days in the coming weeks will they keep their promise to seniors?

Mr. Chair, after a lifetime of hard work, of course Canadians deserve peace of mind when it comes to their retirement security. COVID-19 is definitely having a disproportionate impact on seniors. They have a greater need for services and supports. Happily, their pensions and their benefits are still flowing, unlike for so many of those who have lost their jobs, but it's still tough. We introduced measures  Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Which day?   Hon. Deb Schulte: at the beginning of April. People received a GST credit, a supplementary payment that was $400 on average for single seniors and $600 for couples. That was of significant help to low- and moderate-income seniors.

We have a point of order from Ms. Gladu.


Mr. Chair, seniors in my riding are struggling. We've heard the Prime Minister admit that fixed incomes for some of them are down, rent is increasing and the price of groceries is increasing. He's been saying for weeks that in the coming days, something would be announced for seniors. The fact is that the Liberals ran on an election promise to increase the old age security. Which of the days in the coming weeks will they keep their promise to seniors?

Mr. Chair, after a lifetime of hard work, of course Canadians deserve peace of mind when it comes to their retirement security. COVID-19 is definitely having a disproportionate impact on seniors. They have a greater need for services and supports. Happily, their pensions and their benefits are still flowing, unlike for so many of those who have lost their jobs, but it's still tough. We introduced measures  Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Which day?   Hon. Deb Schulte: at the beginning of April. People received a GST credit, a supplementary payment that was $400 on average for single seniors and $600 for couples. That was of significant help to low- and moderate-income seniors.

We have a point of order from Ms. Gladu.

Yes, Mr. Chair. I think you had reminded us as members that the amount of time for the answer should be similar to the amount of time for the question. I would just ask the minister to keep to that. I would like to go to my second question.


Mr. Chair, after a lifetime of hard work, of course Canadians deserve peace of mind when it comes to their retirement security. COVID-19 is definitely having a disproportionate impact on seniors. They have a greater need for services and supports. Happily, their pensions and their benefits are still flowing, unlike for so many of those who have lost their jobs, but it's still tough. We introduced measures  Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Which day?   Hon. Deb Schulte: at the beginning of April. People received a GST credit, a supplementary payment that was $400 on average for single seniors and $600 for couples. That was of significant help to low- and moderate-income seniors.

We have a point of order from Ms. Gladu.

Yes, Mr. Chair. I think you had reminded us as members that the amount of time for the answer should be similar to the amount of time for the question. I would just ask the minister to keep to that. I would like to go to my second question.

I want to remind all honourable members to keep their answers as well as their questions as concise as possible. Ms. Gladu.


We have a point of order from Ms. Gladu.

Yes, Mr. Chair. I think you had reminded us as members that the amount of time for the answer should be similar to the amount of time for the question. I would just ask the minister to keep to that. I would like to go to my second question.

I want to remind all honourable members to keep their answers as well as their questions as concise as possible. Ms. Gladu.

Very good, Mr. Chair. My riding is on the border of Canada and the U.S. We see a number of inconsistencies in what is considered essential travel with regard to the U.S. and actually in the interpretation of different CBSA agents. While we have Americans coming over to buy cheaper prescription medications and to fish, individuals in my riding who are trying to get auditors over so that they can be approved for export businesses are being declined. We have people who have purchased masts from Canadian producers for their boats, and who want to come and pick them up, who are not being allowed to do that. People trying to sell plasma into the U.S. are being denied. When will they clarify the rules to the CBSA agents so that essential travel and trade and commerce, including individual commerce, is understood?


Yes, Mr. Chair. I think you had reminded us as members that the amount of time for the answer should be similar to the amount of time for the question. I would just ask the minister to keep to that. I would like to go to my second question.

I want to remind all honourable members to keep their answers as well as their questions as concise as possible. Ms. Gladu.

Very good, Mr. Chair. My riding is on the border of Canada and the U.S. We see a number of inconsistencies in what is considered essential travel with regard to the U.S. and actually in the interpretation of different CBSA agents. While we have Americans coming over to buy cheaper prescription medications and to fish, individuals in my riding who are trying to get auditors over so that they can be approved for export businesses are being declined. We have people who have purchased masts from Canadian producers for their boats, and who want to come and pick them up, who are not being allowed to do that. People trying to sell plasma into the U.S. are being denied. When will they clarify the rules to the CBSA agents so that essential travel and trade and commerce, including individual commerce, is understood?

Mr. Chair, we have implemented very rigorous rules that have been well documented and understood by CBSA to stop all non-essential travel. Those measures have been very successful. We've seen a 99% reduction in international travel coming into Canada. At the same time, we recognize the importance of maintaining essential supply routes so that goods and services could reach Canada and we could put groceries on our shelves. We also recognize the important work that essential workers do on both sides of the border. We have provided CBSA with clarification. Their interpretation of those rules has been broadly consistent. I've heard from a number of our colleagues in caucus with concerns about individual cases. When we receive those inquiries, we follow up immediately. I want to assure the member that we'll continue to do that. The work we are doing to stop non-essential travel has been important for the health and safety of Canadians, and we will continue with that work.


I want to remind all honourable members to keep their answers as well as their questions as concise as possible. Ms. Gladu.

Very good, Mr. Chair. My riding is on the border of Canada and the U.S. We see a number of inconsistencies in what is considered essential travel with regard to the U.S. and actually in the interpretation of different CBSA agents. While we have Americans coming over to buy cheaper prescription medications and to fish, individuals in my riding who are trying to get auditors over so that they can be approved for export businesses are being declined. We have people who have purchased masts from Canadian producers for their boats, and who want to come and pick them up, who are not being allowed to do that. People trying to sell plasma into the U.S. are being denied. When will they clarify the rules to the CBSA agents so that essential travel and trade and commerce, including individual commerce, is understood?

Mr. Chair, we have implemented very rigorous rules that have been well documented and understood by CBSA to stop all non-essential travel. Those measures have been very successful. We've seen a 99% reduction in international travel coming into Canada. At the same time, we recognize the importance of maintaining essential supply routes so that goods and services could reach Canada and we could put groceries on our shelves. We also recognize the important work that essential workers do on both sides of the border. We have provided CBSA with clarification. Their interpretation of those rules has been broadly consistent. I've heard from a number of our colleagues in caucus with concerns about individual cases. When we receive those inquiries, we follow up immediately. I want to assure the member that we'll continue to do that. The work we are doing to stop non-essential travel has been important for the health and safety of Canadians, and we will continue with that work.

Mr. Chair, my next question has to do with sole proprietor businesses. We see that many of them are not eligible for any of the benefit packages that have been rolled outEI, CERB, the wage subsidy, etc. What is the government going to do to address sole proprietors who are currently falling through the cracks?


Very good, Mr. Chair. My riding is on the border of Canada and the U.S. We see a number of inconsistencies in what is considered essential travel with regard to the U.S. and actually in the interpretation of different CBSA agents. While we have Americans coming over to buy cheaper prescription medications and to fish, individuals in my riding who are trying to get auditors over so that they can be approved for export businesses are being declined. We have people who have purchased masts from Canadian producers for their boats, and who want to come and pick them up, who are not being allowed to do that. People trying to sell plasma into the U.S. are being denied. When will they clarify the rules to the CBSA agents so that essential travel and trade and commerce, including individual commerce, is understood?

Mr. Chair, we have implemented very rigorous rules that have been well documented and understood by CBSA to stop all non-essential travel. Those measures have been very successful. We've seen a 99% reduction in international travel coming into Canada. At the same time, we recognize the importance of maintaining essential supply routes so that goods and services could reach Canada and we could put groceries on our shelves. We also recognize the important work that essential workers do on both sides of the border. We have provided CBSA with clarification. Their interpretation of those rules has been broadly consistent. I've heard from a number of our colleagues in caucus with concerns about individual cases. When we receive those inquiries, we follow up immediately. I want to assure the member that we'll continue to do that. The work we are doing to stop non-essential travel has been important for the health and safety of Canadians, and we will continue with that work.

Mr. Chair, my next question has to do with sole proprietor businesses. We see that many of them are not eligible for any of the benefit packages that have been rolled outEI, CERB, the wage subsidy, etc. What is the government going to do to address sole proprietors who are currently falling through the cracks?

Mr. Chair, first, let me say that we absolutely recognize there are businesses across the country of all sizes that are finding this to be extremely difficult. The intent of the measures we put forward is obviously not only to give individuals a bridge but to give businesses a bridge. We are looking at ways that we can ensure that the Canada emergency business account has the broadest possible application. More than 500,000 businesses have already been approved for these loans, representing over $20 billion. We are looking at ways we can consider that eligibility process, recognizing that we need to make sure that the program continues to have its desired impact, and we will have more to say on that.


Mr. Chair, we have implemented very rigorous rules that have been well documented and understood by CBSA to stop all non-essential travel. Those measures have been very successful. We've seen a 99% reduction in international travel coming into Canada. At the same time, we recognize the importance of maintaining essential supply routes so that goods and services could reach Canada and we could put groceries on our shelves. We also recognize the important work that essential workers do on both sides of the border. We have provided CBSA with clarification. Their interpretation of those rules has been broadly consistent. I've heard from a number of our colleagues in caucus with concerns about individual cases. When we receive those inquiries, we follow up immediately. I want to assure the member that we'll continue to do that. The work we are doing to stop non-essential travel has been important for the health and safety of Canadians, and we will continue with that work.

Mr. Chair, my next question has to do with sole proprietor businesses. We see that many of them are not eligible for any of the benefit packages that have been rolled outEI, CERB, the wage subsidy, etc. What is the government going to do to address sole proprietors who are currently falling through the cracks?

Mr. Chair, first, let me say that we absolutely recognize there are businesses across the country of all sizes that are finding this to be extremely difficult. The intent of the measures we put forward is obviously not only to give individuals a bridge but to give businesses a bridge. We are looking at ways that we can ensure that the Canada emergency business account has the broadest possible application. More than 500,000 businesses have already been approved for these loans, representing over $20 billion. We are looking at ways we can consider that eligibility process, recognizing that we need to make sure that the program continues to have its desired impact, and we will have more to say on that.

The next question will go to Mr. Arnold.


Mr. Chair, my next question has to do with sole proprietor businesses. We see that many of them are not eligible for any of the benefit packages that have been rolled outEI, CERB, the wage subsidy, etc. What is the government going to do to address sole proprietors who are currently falling through the cracks?

Mr. Chair, first, let me say that we absolutely recognize there are businesses across the country of all sizes that are finding this to be extremely difficult. The intent of the measures we put forward is obviously not only to give individuals a bridge but to give businesses a bridge. We are looking at ways that we can ensure that the Canada emergency business account has the broadest possible application. More than 500,000 businesses have already been approved for these loans, representing over $20 billion. We are looking at ways we can consider that eligibility process, recognizing that we need to make sure that the program continues to have its desired impact, and we will have more to say on that.

The next question will go to Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Chair, this is my first appearance, so I hope you can hear me okay.


Mr. Chair, first, let me say that we absolutely recognize there are businesses across the country of all sizes that are finding this to be extremely difficult. The intent of the measures we put forward is obviously not only to give individuals a bridge but to give businesses a bridge. We are looking at ways that we can ensure that the Canada emergency business account has the broadest possible application. More than 500,000 businesses have already been approved for these loans, representing over $20 billion. We are looking at ways we can consider that eligibility process, recognizing that we need to make sure that the program continues to have its desired impact, and we will have more to say on that.

The next question will go to Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Chair, this is my first appearance, so I hope you can hear me okay.


The next question will go to Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Chair, this is my first appearance, so I hope you can hear me okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see everyone's faces. On April 3, the fisheries minister said opening dates would be determined by harvesters. Since then the minister has overruled the will of harvesters in Prince Edward Island and in the gulf who voted to start their seasons on time, but she has allowed harvesters from her own riding to proceed with their seasons as scheduled, giving them access to markets weeks before their competitors. This double standard is severely unfair and Atlantic harvesters are furious, as demonstrated during the protests on the Canso Causeway yesterday. When will the minister stop abusing her position and start respecting fish harvesters by opening up lobster fishing areas 23, 24 and 26?


Mr. Chair, this is my first appearance, so I hope you can hear me okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see everyone's faces. On April 3, the fisheries minister said opening dates would be determined by harvesters. Since then the minister has overruled the will of harvesters in Prince Edward Island and in the gulf who voted to start their seasons on time, but she has allowed harvesters from her own riding to proceed with their seasons as scheduled, giving them access to markets weeks before their competitors. This double standard is severely unfair and Atlantic harvesters are furious, as demonstrated during the protests on the Canso Causeway yesterday. When will the minister stop abusing her position and start respecting fish harvesters by opening up lobster fishing areas 23, 24 and 26?

Mr. Chair, when making decisions with regard to when seasons open, a number of factors are taken into account. They are complex decisions that take into account what is necessary for processors to be ready for the season, what is necessary for harvesters to be ready for the season, as well socio-economic impacts on the area. We're looking at all of those measures when we make these decisions. We do not make them lightly. They are difficult decisions to make. In the decisions we've made around the gulf, one of the main things we heard from all of those areas is that it was very important for them to start on the same date. That is why the decision was made to start on the 15th of May. We're looking forward to seeing the harvesters out on the water. We're looking forward to the product that they bring in. We'll continue do everything we can to support the industry.


Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see everyone's faces. On April 3, the fisheries minister said opening dates would be determined by harvesters. Since then the minister has overruled the will of harvesters in Prince Edward Island and in the gulf who voted to start their seasons on time, but she has allowed harvesters from her own riding to proceed with their seasons as scheduled, giving them access to markets weeks before their competitors. This double standard is severely unfair and Atlantic harvesters are furious, as demonstrated during the protests on the Canso Causeway yesterday. When will the minister stop abusing her position and start respecting fish harvesters by opening up lobster fishing areas 23, 24 and 26?

Mr. Chair, when making decisions with regard to when seasons open, a number of factors are taken into account. They are complex decisions that take into account what is necessary for processors to be ready for the season, what is necessary for harvesters to be ready for the season, as well socio-economic impacts on the area. We're looking at all of those measures when we make these decisions. We do not make them lightly. They are difficult decisions to make. In the decisions we've made around the gulf, one of the main things we heard from all of those areas is that it was very important for them to start on the same date. That is why the decision was made to start on the 15th of May. We're looking forward to seeing the harvesters out on the water. We're looking forward to the product that they bring in. We'll continue do everything we can to support the industry.


Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see everyone's faces. On April 3, the fisheries minister said opening dates would be determined by harvesters. Since then the minister has overruled the will of harvesters in Prince Edward Island and in the gulf who voted to start their seasons on time, but she has allowed harvesters from her own riding to proceed with their seasons as scheduled, giving them access to markets weeks before their competitors. This double standard is severely unfair and Atlantic harvesters are furious, as demonstrated during the protests on the Canso Causeway yesterday. When will the minister stop abusing her position and start respecting fish harvesters by opening up lobster fishing areas 23, 24 and 26?

Mr. Chair, when making decisions with regard to when seasons open, a number of factors are taken into account. They are complex decisions that take into account what is necessary for processors to be ready for the season, what is necessary for harvesters to be ready for the season, as well socio-economic impacts on the area. We're looking at all of those measures when we make these decisions. We do not make them lightly. They are difficult decisions to make. In the decisions we've made around the gulf, one of the main things we heard from all of those areas is that it was very important for them to start on the same date. That is why the decision was made to start on the 15th of May. We're looking forward to seeing the harvesters out on the water. We're looking forward to the product that they bring in. We'll continue do everything we can to support the industry.

Excuse me. No, the hon. minister had another 15 seconds coming to her. I'd like to remind hon. members not to interrupt a person while they are speaking. I'll do my best to try to keep it about level. Maybe I'll start muting if it's necessary, but interrupting is not going to solve anything. Mr. Arnold, I'll let you continue. You have three minutes and nine seconds left.


Mr. Chair, when making decisions with regard to when seasons open, a number of factors are taken into account. They are complex decisions that take into account what is necessary for processors to be ready for the season, what is necessary for harvesters to be ready for the season, as well socio-economic impacts on the area. We're looking at all of those measures when we make these decisions. We do not make them lightly. They are difficult decisions to make. In the decisions we've made around the gulf, one of the main things we heard from all of those areas is that it was very important for them to start on the same date. That is why the decision was made to start on the 15th of May. We're looking forward to seeing the harvesters out on the water. We're looking forward to the product that they bring in. We'll continue do everything we can to support the industry.

Excuse me. No, the hon. minister had another 15 seconds coming to her. I'd like to remind hon. members not to interrupt a person while they are speaking. I'll do my best to try to keep it about level. Maybe I'll start muting if it's necessary, but interrupting is not going to solve anything. Mr. Arnold, I'll let you continue. You have three minutes and nine seconds left.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. West coast fishing tourism is a key economic driver in British Columbia, especially in coastal communities, and yet the public fishery gets no respect from the government. Last year, the public fishery was weakened by restrictions based on ideology and not science. A year later, the fisheries minister refuses even to discuss viable, science-based solutions to conserve B.C.'s public fisheries. Does the minister and her government have a will and a plan to support Canada's west coast fisheries and the communities they sustain?


Excuse me. No, the hon. minister had another 15 seconds coming to her. I'd like to remind hon. members not to interrupt a person while they are speaking. I'll do my best to try to keep it about level. Maybe I'll start muting if it's necessary, but interrupting is not going to solve anything. Mr. Arnold, I'll let you continue. You have three minutes and nine seconds left.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. West coast fishing tourism is a key economic driver in British Columbia, especially in coastal communities, and yet the public fishery gets no respect from the government. Last year, the public fishery was weakened by restrictions based on ideology and not science. A year later, the fisheries minister refuses even to discuss viable, science-based solutions to conserve B.C.'s public fisheries. Does the minister and her government have a will and a plan to support Canada's west coast fisheries and the communities they sustain?

The hon. minister in 30 seconds, please.


Excuse me. No, the hon. minister had another 15 seconds coming to her. I'd like to remind hon. members not to interrupt a person while they are speaking. I'll do my best to try to keep it about level. Maybe I'll start muting if it's necessary, but interrupting is not going to solve anything. Mr. Arnold, I'll let you continue. You have three minutes and nine seconds left.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. West coast fishing tourism is a key economic driver in British Columbia, especially in coastal communities, and yet the public fishery gets no respect from the government. Last year, the public fishery was weakened by restrictions based on ideology and not science. A year later, the fisheries minister refuses even to discuss viable, science-based solutions to conserve B.C.'s public fisheries. Does the minister and her government have a will and a plan to support Canada's west coast fisheries and the communities they sustain?

The hon. minister in 30 seconds, please.

Mr. Chair, the fishery is important in every coastal community. I recognize its value for our economy, as well as what it means to our coastal communities. That's why we continue to work with those communities and with the fisheries to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to support them. During these extremely difficult times, we're working on measures with the fishery in B.C., as well as on the Atlantic coast and eastern Quebec, to make sure that we're delivering for them and that all of the issues they're having are being addressed.


Thank you, Mr. Chair. West coast fishing tourism is a key economic driver in British Columbia, especially in coastal communities, and yet the public fishery gets no respect from the government. Last year, the public fishery was weakened by restrictions based on ideology and not science. A year later, the fisheries minister refuses even to discuss viable, science-based solutions to conserve B.C.'s public fisheries. Does the minister and her government have a will and a plan to support Canada's west coast fisheries and the communities they sustain?

The hon. minister in 30 seconds, please.

Mr. Chair, the fishery is important in every coastal community. I recognize its value for our economy, as well as what it means to our coastal communities. That's why we continue to work with those communities and with the fisheries to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to support them. During these extremely difficult times, we're working on measures with the fishery in B.C., as well as on the Atlantic coast and eastern Quebec, to make sure that we're delivering for them and that all of the issues they're having are being addressed.


The hon. minister in 30 seconds, please.

Mr. Chair, the fishery is important in every coastal community. I recognize its value for our economy, as well as what it means to our coastal communities. That's why we continue to work with those communities and with the fisheries to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to support them. During these extremely difficult times, we're working on measures with the fishery in B.C., as well as on the Atlantic coast and eastern Quebec, to make sure that we're delivering for them and that all of the issues they're having are being addressed.

Mr. Chair, Canada's seniors, especially those on basic incomes, are being hard hit by the COVID-19 crisis as they face new rising costs and scarcity of services. Seniors require adequate caregiver supports, physical safety and freedom to access their savings to reinforce their financial security. Why has the government failed to recognize the increasing challenges that seniors are facing? Will the government support Canada's senior citizens?


Mr. Chair, the fishery is important in every coastal community. I recognize its value for our economy, as well as what it means to our coastal communities. That's why we continue to work with those communities and with the fisheries to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to support them. During these extremely difficult times, we're working on measures with the fishery in B.C., as well as on the Atlantic coast and eastern Quebec, to make sure that we're delivering for them and that all of the issues they're having are being addressed.

Mr. Chair, Canada's seniors, especially those on basic incomes, are being hard hit by the COVID-19 crisis as they face new rising costs and scarcity of services. Seniors require adequate caregiver supports, physical safety and freedom to access their savings to reinforce their financial security. Why has the government failed to recognize the increasing challenges that seniors are facing? Will the government support Canada's senior citizens?

The hon. minister in 30 seconds or less, please.


Mr. Chair, Canada's seniors, especially those on basic incomes, are being hard hit by the COVID-19 crisis as they face new rising costs and scarcity of services. Seniors require adequate caregiver supports, physical safety and freedom to access their savings to reinforce their financial security. Why has the government failed to recognize the increasing challenges that seniors are facing? Will the government support Canada's senior citizens?

The hon. minister in 30 seconds or less, please.

Mr. Chair, I want to assure my hon. colleague that the government has been focused on seniors during this challenging time. We have provided a GST credit supplement of $400 for single seniors and $600 for couples, for low- and modest-income seniors. We have also ensured that the Canada emergency response benefit is there for seniors who have lost income due to COVID-19. We've made them eligible.


Mr. Chair, Canada's seniors, especially those on basic incomes, are being hard hit by the COVID-19 crisis as they face new rising costs and scarcity of services. Seniors require adequate caregiver supports, physical safety and freedom to access their savings to reinforce their financial security. Why has the government failed to recognize the increasing challenges that seniors are facing? Will the government support Canada's senior citizens?

The hon. minister in 30 seconds or less, please.

Mr. Chair, I want to assure my hon. colleague that the government has been focused on seniors during this challenging time. We have provided a GST credit supplement of $400 for single seniors and $600 for couples, for low- and modest-income seniors. We have also ensured that the Canada emergency response benefit is there for seniors who have lost income due to COVID-19. We've made them eligible.

We'll go back to Mr. Arnold. Mr. Arnold, you have a minutehopefully a 30-second question and a 30-second answer.


The hon. minister in 30 seconds or less, please.

Mr. Chair, I want to assure my hon. colleague that the government has been focused on seniors during this challenging time. We have provided a GST credit supplement of $400 for single seniors and $600 for couples, for low- and modest-income seniors. We have also ensured that the Canada emergency response benefit is there for seniors who have lost income due to COVID-19. We've made them eligible.

We'll go back to Mr. Arnold. Mr. Arnold, you have a minutehopefully a 30-second question and a 30-second answer.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On April 23, my colleagues and I called on the government to create a program that would match students seeking employment with employers in Canada's essential food supply chains. What has the government done to match students and other Canadians seeking employment with employers in the agriculture and agri-food sectors, including those in the fish and seafood sector?


Mr. Chair, I want to assure my hon. colleague that the government has been focused on seniors during this challenging time. We have provided a GST credit supplement of $400 for single seniors and $600 for couples, for low- and modest-income seniors. We have also ensured that the Canada emergency response benefit is there for seniors who have lost income due to COVID-19. We've made them eligible.

We'll go back to Mr. Arnold. Mr. Arnold, you have a minutehopefully a 30-second question and a 30-second answer.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On April 23, my colleagues and I called on the government to create a program that would match students seeking employment with employers in Canada's essential food supply chains. What has the government done to match students and other Canadians seeking employment with employers in the agriculture and agri-food sectors, including those in the fish and seafood sector?

Mr. Chair, we're doing all we can to make sure, using our existing employment programs, that we create opportunities for students to work and get work experience this summer. We know that this is going to be really tough, especially in areas like agriculture, so we have dedicated streams for agriculture sector employers to access students with help from the government, and a number of different initiatives including Canada summer jobs, which I'm really excited to see the results of in the coming days.


We'll go back to Mr. Arnold. Mr. Arnold, you have a minutehopefully a 30-second question and a 30-second answer.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On April 23, my colleagues and I called on the government to create a program that would match students seeking employment with employers in Canada's essential food supply chains. What has the government done to match students and other Canadians seeking employment with employers in the agriculture and agri-food sectors, including those in the fish and seafood sector?

Mr. Chair, we're doing all we can to make sure, using our existing employment programs, that we create opportunities for students to work and get work experience this summer. We know that this is going to be really tough, especially in areas like agriculture, so we have dedicated streams for agriculture sector employers to access students with help from the government, and a number of different initiatives including Canada summer jobs, which I'm really excited to see the results of in the coming days.


Okay , welcome to the detailed design meeting. Again , I'm gonna take minutes. Oh , we're gonna have a prototype presentation first.

Uh , who's gonna give the prototype presentation ? You two guys ? Okay. Go ahead.


Uh , who's gonna give the prototype presentation ? You two guys ? Okay. Go ahead.


Uh , who's gonna give the prototype presentation ? You two guys ? Okay. Go ahead.

'Kay , we've made a prototype. Um , we've got uh  uh our aspects from the last meeting. Uh , especially we looked at the form , material and the colour. Um , we've uh drawn here the p prototype. The logo is uh is uh  is pretty uh  obvious to see on the on the remote control ,


'Kay , we've made a prototype. Um , we've got uh  uh our aspects from the last meeting. Uh , especially we looked at the form , material and the colour. Um , we've uh drawn here the p prototype. The logo is uh is uh  is pretty uh  obvious to see on the on the remote control ,

but it is necessary when you want to build your uh company f to a level higher. Um ,  our interface elements , there are shown in the in the drawing. Maybe you can uh point them uh  The functions.


'Kay , we've made a prototype. Um , we've got uh  uh our aspects from the last meeting. Uh , especially we looked at the form , material and the colour. Um , we've uh drawn here the p prototype. The logo is uh is uh  is pretty uh  obvious to see on the on the remote control ,

but it is necessary when you want to build your uh company f to a level higher. Um ,  our interface elements , there are shown in the in the drawing. Maybe you can uh point them uh  The functions.

Uh , well the uh  all the functions are discussed uh  I think the most of the functions are uh uh obvious. Uh , it's a little bit. Uh , power button. Uh then the the the nine uh channels.


'Kay , we've made a prototype. Um , we've got uh  uh our aspects from the last meeting. Uh , especially we looked at the form , material and the colour. Um , we've uh drawn here the p prototype. The logo is uh is uh  is pretty uh  obvious to see on the on the remote control ,

but it is necessary when you want to build your uh company f to a level higher. Um ,  our interface elements , there are shown in the in the drawing. Maybe you can uh point them uh  The functions.

Uh , well the uh  all the functions are discussed uh  I think the most of the functions are uh uh obvious. Uh , it's a little bit. Uh , power button. Uh then the the the nine uh channels.

Uh the volume uh uh at the side , and the other side is the programmes. And then we had uh just uh two buttons , we place them in the middle , uh the menu , and for the teletext


but it is necessary when you want to build your uh company f to a level higher. Um ,  our interface elements , there are shown in the in the drawing. Maybe you can uh point them uh  The functions.

Uh , well the uh  all the functions are discussed uh  I think the most of the functions are uh uh obvious. Uh , it's a little bit. Uh , power button. Uh then the the the nine uh channels.

Uh the volume uh uh at the side , and the other side is the programmes. And then we had uh just uh two buttons , we place them in the middle , uh the menu , and for the teletext

Oh no , the the the mute button misses now.


Uh , well the uh  all the functions are discussed uh  I think the most of the functions are uh uh obvious. Uh , it's a little bit. Uh , power button. Uh then the the the nine uh channels.

Uh the volume uh uh at the side , and the other side is the programmes. And then we had uh just uh two buttons , we place them in the middle , uh the menu , and for the teletext

Oh no , the the the mute button misses now.


Uh the volume uh uh at the side , and the other side is the programmes. And then we had uh just uh two buttons , we place them in the middle , uh the menu , and for the teletext

Oh no , the the the mute button misses now.


Oh no , the the the mute button misses now.


Alright , and uh you gotta point out which is the volume um uh button and which is the programme button.


Yeah , well most of them are right-handed.


Yeah , well most of them are right-handed.

Yeah , but you you gotta make it clear on the  on


Yeah , well most of them are right-handed.

Yeah , but you you gotta make it clear on the  on

Yeah well , I don't have time in uh anymore on the


Yeah , but you you gotta make it clear on the  on

Yeah well , I don't have time in uh anymore on the

Yes , y there there will be a p a little a little P_ on that and a little uh  yeah.


Yeah well , I don't have time in uh anymore on the

Yes , y there there will be a p a little a little P_ on that and a little uh  yeah.

Oh yeah , just progr programme above , I think.


Yes , y there there will be a p a little a little P_ on that and a little uh  yeah.

Oh yeah , just progr programme above , I think.

Yes. Next to that I kinda miss a zero actually.


Oh yeah , just progr programme above , I think.

Yes. Next to that I kinda miss a zero actually.

Wait , there's  was one thing I wanted to ask.


Oh yeah , just progr programme above , I think.

Yes. Next to that I kinda miss a zero actually.

Wait , there's  was one thing I wanted to ask.

Uh , there are different ways for remote controls to uh  do uh like


Yes. Next to that I kinda miss a zero actually.

Wait , there's  was one thing I wanted to ask.

Uh , there are different ways for remote controls to uh  do uh like

uh d I call it teens and twenties. Uh , y th th th the two numbers.


Wait , there's  was one thing I wanted to ask.

Uh , there are different ways for remote controls to uh  do uh like

uh d I call it teens and twenties. Uh , y th th th the two numbers.


Uh , there are different ways for remote controls to uh  do uh like

uh d I call it teens and twenties. Uh , y th th th the two numbers.

All n no , that's um  kinda dependent on the television.


uh d I call it teens and twenties. Uh , y th th th the two numbers.

All n no , that's um  kinda dependent on the television.


All n no , that's um  kinda dependent on the television.


All n no , that's um  kinda dependent on the television.

Yeah , but do we have  do we need extra buttons ,


Yeah , but do we have  do we need extra buttons ,


Yes , yes , you have you have a lot of standard buttons that has to be uh on it , uh th with the one and a double uh uh


Yeah , but you don't you don't actually need them ,


Yeah , but you don't you don't actually need them ,

becau b l a lot of remote controls work that y when y that you when you fir you push the one first , then you have a couple of seconds


becau b l a lot of remote controls work that y when y that you when you fir you push the one first , then you have a couple of seconds


becau b l a lot of remote controls work that y when y that you when you fir you push the one first , then you have a couple of seconds

No , that's dependent on the television.


No , that's dependent on the television.

Yes , you have televisions , then you have to , you know , you have to uh press


Yes , you have televisions , then you have to , you know , you have to uh press


because you have a  I know some remote controls that don't have these buttons , but you still can , know , obviously you can still select the twenty  uh a number in the twenty or in the ten.


because you have a  I know some remote controls that don't have these buttons , but you still can , know , obviously you can still select the twenty  uh a number in the twenty or in the ten.

Yes , but uh uh no uh remote control nowadays are um   they come with the television. Or actually , the other way around.


Yes , but uh uh no uh remote control nowadays are um   they come with the television. Or actually , the other way around.


Yes , but uh uh no uh remote control nowadays are um   they come with the television. Or actually , the other way around.

because you can  when when you put a button on it with like one and uh then a dash , it's the same thing as when you just push the one ,


because you can  when when you put a button on it with like one and uh then a dash , it's the same thing as when you just push the one ,


because you can  when when you put a button on it with like one and uh then a dash , it's the same thing as when you just push the one ,

because it i it first gives you the functionality of that that uh separate button you also had to uh apply.


because it i it first gives you the functionality of that that uh separate button you also had to uh apply.


because it i it first gives you the functionality of that that uh separate button you also had to uh apply.

some televisions don't accept uh that that


some televisions don't accept uh that that

Yeah , because that's i it's for television. It's exact the same thing.


some televisions don't accept uh that that

Yeah , because that's i it's for television. It's exact the same thing.

No no no. So some television respond differently. Look , if uh i i


Yeah , because that's i it's for television. It's exact the same thing.

No no no. So some television respond differently. Look , if uh i i

No , listen listen. When you push the button , the remote control gives a signal. I in th in the first place it gives a signal which it would also send when you put a separate button on it.


No no no. So some television respond differently. Look , if uh i i

No , listen listen. When you push the button , the remote control gives a signal. I in th in the first place it gives a signal which it would also send when you put a separate button on it.


No no no. So some television respond differently. Look , if uh i i

No , listen listen. When you push the button , the remote control gives a signal. I in th in the first place it gives a signal which it would also send when you put a separate button on it.

The one with dash , that signal gi and when y whe when you don't push another button on the remote control within five seconds , then the remote control gives a signal for channel one.


No , listen listen. When you push the button , the remote control gives a signal. I in th in the first place it gives a signal which it would also send when you put a separate button on it.

The one with dash , that signal gi and when y whe when you don't push another button on the remote control within five seconds , then the remote control gives a signal for channel one.


The one with dash , that signal gi and when y whe when you don't push another button on the remote control within five seconds , then the remote control gives a signal for channel one.


No , it it it works uh if you haven't got uh a special button for it , uh if you push a one , then on your television there will appear a one and a a line , which is an empty space.


No , it it it works uh if you haven't got uh a special button for it , uh if you push a one , then on your television there will appear a one and a a line , which is an empty space.

Yeah , but it's exact the same  that w would appear when you put a separate button  push a separate button.


No , it it it works uh if you haven't got uh a special button for it , uh if you push a one , then on your television there will appear a one and a a line , which is an empty space.

Yeah , but it's exact the same  that w would appear when you put a separate button  push a separate button.

Yes , but some some old televisions uh you have to uh click on uh a special button , uh then you go to a a next level , you can push two buttons.


No , it it it works uh if you haven't got uh a special button for it , uh if you push a one , then on your television there will appear a one and a a line , which is an empty space.

Yeah , but it's exact the same  that w would appear when you put a separate button  push a separate button.

Yes , but some some old televisions uh you have to uh click on uh a special button , uh then you go to a a next level , you can push two buttons.

Yeah , but you don't underst uh you don't understand my point.


Yeah , but it's exact the same  that w would appear when you put a separate button  push a separate button.

Yes , but some some old televisions uh you have to uh click on uh a special button , uh then you go to a a next level , you can push two buttons.

Yeah , but you don't underst uh you don't understand my point.


Yes , but some some old televisions uh you have to uh click on uh a special button , uh then you go to a a next level , you can push two buttons.

Yeah , but you don't underst uh you don't understand my point.

I think it's exact the same thing when y


Yeah , but you don't underst uh you don't understand my point.

I think it's exact the same thing when y

You want  Yes , but some television don't support it.


I think it's exact the same thing when y

You want  Yes , but some television don't support it.

No , but then they would a would also support that button , because it's the same thing.


You want  Yes , but some television don't support it.

No , but then they would a would also support that button , because it's the same thing.

Listen , with  that that's that special but button  you're talking about , eh ? That's just a signal to recei ju they send a t signal to the v tv T_V_ that they have to put a one in  on your screen and a dash , which you can pu so you can uh still put another number on it. When you don't have that separate button , and you push y one , it's exactly the same thing. Do y you  the remote control gives that same signal as it would give when you only had


No , but then they would a would also support that button , because it's the same thing.

Listen , with  that that's that special but button  you're talking about , eh ? That's just a signal to recei ju they send a t signal to the v tv T_V_ that they have to put a one in  on your screen and a dash , which you can pu so you can uh still put another number on it. When you don't have that separate button , and you push y one , it's exactly the same thing. Do y you  the remote control gives that same signal as it would give when you only had


Listen , with  that that's that special but button  you're talking about , eh ? That's just a signal to recei ju they send a t signal to the v tv T_V_ that they have to put a one in  on your screen and a dash , which you can pu so you can uh still put another number on it. When you don't have that separate button , and you push y one , it's exactly the same thing. Do y you  the remote control gives that same signal as it would give when you only had

No , s some some televisions need the input first uh and and you c


No , s some some televisions need the input first uh and and you c


You push the one. That's the same thing as the button with the one and it


You push the one. That's the same thing as the button with the one and it

It's simply not true. It's simply not true.


It's simply not true. It's simply not true.


You uh you can wai when you push the one you can show on the telly a one and just a dash , and then wait uh two uh seconds or something


You uh you can wai when you push the one you can show on the telly a one and just a dash , and then wait uh two uh seconds or something

And it's the same thing what happens and a g remote control gives another signal after five seconds that is just one.


And it's the same thing what happens and a g remote control gives another signal after five seconds that is just one.

No , remote control doesn't give signal after five seconds. Remote control is a stupid thing. If you push a button , it sends it immediately to to the television.


And it's the same thing what happens and a g remote control gives another signal after five seconds that is just one.

No , remote control doesn't give signal after five seconds. Remote control is a stupid thing. If you push a button , it sends it immediately to to the television.

Yeah , that's true. Yeah , but I m uh but it's  I I know for sure that some televisions that w th th the remote control supplied , only ha has the c these buttons with a one and a dash and a two and a dash , but when you use a bu a n remote control that doesn't sport these buttons , it still works.


No , remote control doesn't give signal after five seconds. Remote control is a stupid thing. If you push a button , it sends it immediately to to the television.

Yeah , that's true. Yeah , but I m uh but it's  I I know for sure that some televisions that w th th the remote control supplied , only ha has the c these buttons with a one and a dash and a two and a dash , but when you use a bu a n remote control that doesn't sport these buttons , it still works.


Yeah , that's true. Yeah , but I m uh but it's  I I know for sure that some televisions that w th th the remote control supplied , only ha has the c these buttons with a one and a dash and a two and a dash , but when you use a bu a n remote control that doesn't sport these buttons , it still works.


We'll discuss them in the usability lab.


We'll discuss them in the usability lab.

I don't know uh I don't know if if it's it's necessary.


I don't know uh I don't know if if it's it's necessary.

Yeah , app just apply them next to the zero , the one and the two.


I don't know uh I don't know if if it's it's necessary.

Yeah , app just apply them next to the zero , the one and the two.

Yeah , I think so. Yeah , for now , if we don't know for sure whether


Yeah , app just apply them next to the zero , the one and the two.

Yeah , I think so. Yeah , for now , if we don't know for sure whether


Yeah , I think so. Yeah , for now , if we don't know for sure whether

And the button for the SCART uh audio video uh external input.


And the button for the SCART uh audio video uh external input.


Uh , you can access that uh via zero , and then minus , I guess.


Uh , you can access that uh via zero , and then minus , I guess.

okay.  What I said about uh the remote control sending another signal , that that might not be true ,


okay.  What I said about uh the remote control sending another signal , that that might not be true ,

but I still think i it it  all T_V_s in some ways support it , I don't know. I think it's more c is m maybe we don't  uh we both don't really understand how it i how it really works ,


but I still think i it it  all T_V_s in some ways support it , I don't know. I think it's more c is m maybe we don't  uh we both don't really understand how it i how it really works ,


but I still think i it it  all T_V_s in some ways support it , I don't know. I think it's more c is m maybe we don't  uh we both don't really understand how it i how it really works ,

but I think there's more to in than wha than what you just said.


but I still think i it it  all T_V_s in some ways support it , I don't know. I think it's more c is m maybe we don't  uh we both don't really understand how it i how it really works ,

but I think there's more to in than wha than what you just said.

Uh , remote control sends one signal at one button uh press.


but I think there's more to in than wha than what you just said.

Uh , remote control sends one signal at one button uh press.

I do think that uh m T_V_s support mur multiple kind of remote controls. M


but I think there's more to in than wha than what you just said.

Uh , remote control sends one signal at one button uh press.

I do think that uh m T_V_s support mur multiple kind of remote controls. M

Uh , some  N some televisions when when you want to go further than uh ten


Uh , remote control sends one signal at one button uh press.

I do think that uh m T_V_s support mur multiple kind of remote controls. M

Uh , some  N some televisions when when you want to go further than uh ten


I do think that uh m T_V_s support mur multiple kind of remote controls. M

Uh , some  N some televisions when when you want to go further than uh ten

No , you have to you have to uh give the television uh two or more signals.


Uh , some  N some televisions when when you want to go further than uh ten

No , you have to you have to uh give the television uh two or more signals.


No , you have to you have to uh give the television uh two or more signals.

When you uh press one button , you give one signal. And the older televisions need more signals to go a level higher. But


When you uh press one button , you give one signal. And the older televisions need more signals to go a level higher. But


When you uh press one button , you give one signal. And the older televisions need more signals to go a level higher. But

When you make the technology that that it will uh give more signals , it could work , but  Just a basic idea of of of the most uh  most y most common uh and simple uh operations on the remote.


When you make the technology that that it will uh give more signals , it could work , but  Just a basic idea of of of the most uh  most y most common uh and simple uh operations on the remote.


yeah , uh there's nothing  I think it's pretty basic ,


that's wha there's there's there's one function and that's n the one button when you want to find it.


that's wha there's there's there's one function and that's n the one button when you want to find it.

But maybe we can maybe we can make the docking station uh uh a bit standard for for uh the other products we sell ,


that's wha there's there's there's one function and that's n the one button when you want to find it.

But maybe we can maybe we can make the docking station uh uh a bit standard for for uh the other products we sell ,

because Real  Real Reaction sells more products than only remote controls. So maybe we can uh use the docking station , for example , uh M_P_ three players or or uh


But maybe we can maybe we can make the docking station uh uh a bit standard for for uh the other products we sell ,

because Real  Real Reaction sells more products than only remote controls. So maybe we can uh use the docking station , for example , uh M_P_ three players or or uh


because Real  Real Reaction sells more products than only remote controls. So maybe we can uh use the docking station , for example , uh M_P_ three players or or uh


because Real  Real Reaction sells more products than only remote controls. So maybe we can uh use the docking station , for example , uh M_P_ three players or or uh

I think that's very difficult , because of different shapes of uh uh devices.


I think that's very difficult , because of different shapes of uh uh devices.

Yes , but when you put that same volt voltages on it , you can put uh  when the when the when uh o the the the lowest part of it , when it's o the same as the other products , you can put it all on the same uh


I think that's very difficult , because of different shapes of uh uh devices.

Yes , but when you put that same volt voltages on it , you can put uh  when the when the when uh o the the the lowest part of it , when it's o the same as the other products , you can put it all on the same uh

Yeah , of course. Mm-hmm. Well it it got it  it has got to fit into the shape , of course.


Yes , but when you put that same volt voltages on it , you can put uh  when the when the when uh o the the the lowest part of it , when it's o the same as the other products , you can put it all on the same uh

Yeah , of course. Mm-hmm. Well it it got it  it has got to fit into the shape , of course.

The technology and the voltage can be the same. That's uh that's true. But uh i if you all make the m having a bottom like this , then they all fit.


Yeah , of course. Mm-hmm. Well it it got it  it has got to fit into the shape , of course.

The technology and the voltage can be the same. That's uh that's true. But uh i if you all make the m having a bottom like this , then they all fit.

No , we can make uh make the most lowest part all the same.


The technology and the voltage can be the same. That's uh that's true. But uh i if you all make the m having a bottom like this , then they all fit.

No , we can make uh make the most lowest part all the same.


The technology and the voltage can be the same. That's uh that's true. But uh i if you all make the m having a bottom like this , then they all fit.

No , we can make uh make the most lowest part all the same.

When when the the recharger has a has a bit what points out , we can place all on top of it. Just have to be big enough for the biggest


No , we can make uh make the most lowest part all the same.

When when the the recharger has a has a bit what points out , we can place all on top of it. Just have to be big enough for the biggest

Yes , but uh I I g Shouldn't it fall then ? It  isn't going to fall down ?  That's a bit uh


When when the the recharger has a has a bit what points out , we can place all on top of it. Just have to be big enough for the biggest

Yes , but uh I I g Shouldn't it fall then ? It  isn't going to fall down ?  That's a bit uh

No , when you make it large enough no it it will not.


Yes , but uh I I g Shouldn't it fall then ? It  isn't going to fall down ?  That's a bit uh

No , when you make it large enough no it it will not.


No , when you make it large enough no it it will not.

No , but if if  like this , I'll I'll point it out , if you got uh a a a base a base like this ,


No , but if if  like this , I'll I'll point it out , if you got uh a a a base a base like this ,


No , but if if  like this , I'll I'll point it out , if you got uh a a a base a base like this ,

I won't draw it really. If you got a base which is uh as big as this


No , but if if  like this , I'll I'll point it out , if you got uh a a a base a base like this ,

I won't draw it really. If you got a base which is uh as big as this

But it's flat it's flat as as this , so we can p make all the products as flat as this.


I won't draw it really. If you got a base which is uh as big as this

But it's flat it's flat as as this , so we can p make all the products as flat as this.


I won't draw it really. If you got a base which is uh as big as this

But it's flat it's flat as as this , so we can p make all the products as flat as this.

Yeah sure , but if you got if you got a tiny player , it can


But it's flat it's flat as as this , so we can p make all the products as flat as this.

Yeah sure , but if you got if you got a tiny player , it can

Yes , but when you make uh uh a bit of big


Yeah sure , but if you got if you got a tiny player , it can

Yes , but when you make uh uh a bit of big

But it's it's backwards. It's leaning. It's leaning backwards , I think , in the in the docking station.


Yeah sure , but if you got if you got a tiny player , it can

Yes , but when you make uh uh a bit of big

But it's it's backwards. It's leaning. It's leaning backwards , I think , in the in the docking station.

Yeah. Uh , wha what you could do if you uh  from the bottom


Yes , but when you make uh uh a bit of big

But it's it's backwards. It's leaning. It's leaning backwards , I think , in the in the docking station.

Yeah. Uh , wha what you could do if you uh  from the bottom


But it's it's backwards. It's leaning. It's leaning backwards , I think , in the in the docking station.

Yeah. Uh , wha what you could do if you uh  from the bottom


Yeah. Uh , wha what you could do if you uh  from the bottom


Uh , you could make like a hole in it , you know , of uh  in in the


Uh , you could make like a hole in it , you know , of uh  in in the

Yes , little holer  littler  Uh , little products go deeper in it.


Uh , you could make like a hole in it , you know , of uh  in in the

Yes , little holer  littler  Uh , little products go deeper in it.

Well let's ha let's talk about the docking station later , because uh maybe we have we have to uh consider the docking station anyway , because we have some uh cost issues  still to come.


Yes , little holer  littler  Uh , little products go deeper in it.

Well let's ha let's talk about the docking station later , because uh maybe we have we have to uh consider the docking station anyway , because we have some uh cost issues  still to come.


Well let's ha let's talk about the docking station later , because uh maybe we have we have to uh consider the docking station anyway , because we have some uh cost issues  still to come.


the f the look and feel would be great on this uh remote control , because uh you always uh will uh pick up the remote control in the in the smallest uh area.


the f the look and feel would be great on this uh remote control , because uh you always uh will uh pick up the remote control in the in the smallest uh area.

Then your uh left thumb of uh  your right thumb is uh near the programme uh button , which is the most common used uh function , and all the other buttons are available for your uh thumb.


Then your uh left thumb of uh  your right thumb is uh near the programme uh button , which is the most common used uh function , and all the other buttons are available for your uh thumb.


Yes , uh on the side uh there will be a strip of rubber , and in the middle uh there is uh a hard uh a hard material , a bit hard plastic with a light uh behind it.


Yes , uh on the side uh there will be a strip of rubber , and in the middle uh there is uh a hard uh a hard material , a bit hard plastic with a light uh behind it.

I think added lights are gonna be a problem too.


Yes , uh on the side uh there will be a strip of rubber , and in the middle uh there is uh a hard uh a hard material , a bit hard plastic with a light uh behind it.

I think added lights are gonna be a problem too.

Yes , we can make also n neon lights on it , or or the buttons that can make uh light on it.


I think added lights are gonna be a problem too.

Yes , we can make also n neon lights on it , or or the buttons that can make uh light on it.

No , o on the on the front. Yeah , okay. Maybe the uh the logo.


Yes , we can make also n neon lights on it , or or the buttons that can make uh light on it.

No , o on the on the front. Yeah , okay. Maybe the uh the logo.


No , o on the on the front. Yeah , okay. Maybe the uh the logo.

But , it will also uh uh use batteries ,


But , it will also uh uh use batteries ,


Okay. For now , uh this is uh is good enough.


The  all the aspects of the interface buttons were uh


The  all the aspects of the interface buttons were uh

Okay , but in the  oh yeah , the colour , because we're gonna use uh one colour for the the plastic enclosure and one colour for the rubber , isn't it ? Then we're gonna do the buttons in the i are we're gonna have rubber buttons.


The  all the aspects of the interface buttons were uh

Okay , but in the  oh yeah , the colour , because we're gonna use uh one colour for the the plastic enclosure and one colour for the rubber , isn't it ? Then we're gonna do the buttons in the i are we're gonna have rubber buttons.

And they're be a   they'll be in the same colour as the rubber on the side.


Okay , but in the  oh yeah , the colour , because we're gonna use uh one colour for the the plastic enclosure and one colour for the rubber , isn't it ? Then we're gonna do the buttons in the i are we're gonna have rubber buttons.

And they're be a   they'll be in the same colour as the rubber on the side.


And they're be a   they'll be in the same colour as the rubber on the side.


Okay. And I think we should use a a darker colour for the um plastic , and maybe some more m brighter and flashy stuff


Okay. And I think we should use a a darker colour for the um plastic , and maybe some more m brighter and flashy stuff

Yes , maybe we can use on the on the lights on the side we can use uh uh multiple uh lights ,


Yes , maybe we can use on the on the lights on the side we can use uh uh multiple uh lights ,

Yeah , we'll talk about the lights later. 'Cause I also don yeah ,


Yeah , we'll talk about the lights later. 'Cause I also don yeah ,


Yeah , we'll talk about the lights later. 'Cause I also don yeah ,

it's depends on the costs and such. But uh , and we have to agree uh upon the exact colours ,


it's depends on the costs and such. But uh , and we have to agree uh upon the exact colours ,


it's depends on the costs and such. But uh , and we have to agree uh upon the exact colours ,

but may I dunno if that's important , but we'll talk about that later. Okay , for now this is this is okay.


but may I dunno if that's important , but we'll talk about that later. Okay , for now this is this is okay.

Um , the next p y you gonna give a presentation too ? Uh , I have to see the agenda.


Um , the next p y you gonna give a presentation too ? Uh , I have to see the agenda.

Well , uh yeah , I I'm gonna do something right there , yeah.


Well , uh yeah , I I'm gonna do something right there , yeah.

We gotta do that on the right   the most  right-most screen , because the leftmost


We gotta do that on the right   the most  right-most screen , because the leftmost


Alright. I will be needing that image , so leave it please. Um  Go away. Right , we're gonna evaluate that design according to a few points.  Um , we g the four of us are going to do that um together.


Alright. I will be needing that image , so leave it please. Um  Go away. Right , we're gonna evaluate that design according to a few points.  Um , we g the four of us are going to do that um together.

I wanna have a colour over here , come on. Right , the remote  is not ugly , a bit weird sentence , but the positive things has to be on the left , so I  said not ugly instead of ugly.


Alright. I will be needing that image , so leave it please. Um  Go away. Right , we're gonna evaluate that design according to a few points.  Um , we g the four of us are going to do that um together.

I wanna have a colour over here , come on. Right , the remote  is not ugly , a bit weird sentence , but the positive things has to be on the left , so I  said not ugly instead of ugly.

Uh , what would you say , we we gotta give points to uh to all of these to evaluate uh that design , and please forget the drawing skills of these guys.


I wanna have a colour over here , come on. Right , the remote  is not ugly , a bit weird sentence , but the positive things has to be on the left , so I  said not ugly instead of ugly.

Uh , what would you say , we we gotta give points to uh to all of these to evaluate uh that design , and please forget the drawing skills of these guys.

The remote control is not ugly. How do you feel ?


Uh , what would you say , we we gotta give points to uh to all of these to evaluate uh that design , and please forget the drawing skills of these guys.

The remote control is not ugly. How do you feel ?

Yeah , I think four maybe would be appropriate , because it's  Yeah , maybe it really depends on taste. Uh , I mean it's kind of  , our design. It's


The remote control is not ugly. How do you feel ?

Yeah , I think four maybe would be appropriate , because it's  Yeah , maybe it really depends on taste. Uh , I mean it's kind of  , our design. It's