Okay. For the  so you have that button , that  so there's  is there a light or shall we leave just have a radio ?

Are we just having a radio ? On the phone.


Okay. For the  so you have that button , that  so there's  is there a light or shall we leave just have a radio ?

Are we just having a radio ? On the phone.

Um it seemed like a  a beep seemed the most reasonable to me ,


Are we just having a radio ? On the phone.

Um it seemed like a  a beep seemed the most reasonable to me ,


Um it seemed like a  a beep seemed the most reasonable to me ,


I mean when you need to find your phone , you just have someone call it  and it starts ringing somewhere and then you can figure out that it's in the couch or wherever.


I mean when you need to find your phone , you just have someone call it  and it starts ringing somewhere and then you can figure out that it's in the couch or wherever.

And like if the if the phone's under the couch , you might not see the light , so


And like if the if the phone's under the couch , you might not see the light , so


Um ,   So need the other buttons. So we have this  mm.


Um ,   So need the other buttons. So we have this  mm.

So I mean the two remotes that you had shown r I don't remember who showed them  , yeah you you did um ,


So I mean the two remotes that you had shown r I don't remember who showed them  , yeah you you did um ,

they're  I mean one looked like it was for V_C_R_ type thing , and the other looked like just television.


they're  I mean one looked like it was for V_C_R_ type thing , and the other looked like just television.

I think w I think they're both sort of just like general remo they're both general remotes.


they're  I mean one looked like it was for V_C_R_ type thing , and the other looked like just television.

I think w I think they're both sort of just like general remo they're both general remotes.

Oh really. 'Cause that that is something we have to decide , is whether we want to have V_C_R_ capabilities.


I think w I think they're both sort of just like general remo they're both general remotes.

Oh really. 'Cause that that is something we have to decide , is whether we want to have V_C_R_ capabilities.

Does anyone know if V_C_R_s are the same across  international ?


Oh really. 'Cause that that is something we have to decide , is whether we want to have V_C_R_ capabilities.

Does anyone know if V_C_R_s are the same across  international ?


Does anyone know if V_C_R_s are the same across  international ?


Okay , so you'd need like a whole different set of buttons for everybody's V_C_R_s.


Yeah , other than that region and coding thing.


Yeah , other than that region and coding thing.

And and if we're if we're targeting young professionals and teenagers , I mean it's gonna be D_V_D_ type , that's the the technology these days.


And and if we're if we're targeting young professionals and teenagers , I mean it's gonna be D_V_D_ type , that's the the technology these days.


And and if we're if we're targeting young professionals and teenagers , I mean it's gonna be D_V_D_ type , that's the the technology these days.

Yeah. So. Okay , let's see if I can  I think still though , it shouldn't be that hard to take  like just reduce the number of buttons you know ,


Yeah. So. Okay , let's see if I can  I think still though , it shouldn't be that hard to take  like just reduce the number of buttons you know ,


Yeah. So. Okay , let's see if I can  I think still though , it shouldn't be that hard to take  like just reduce the number of buttons you know ,

like 'cause if you just have like one menu button , that works like with a you know , or you can just kind of scroll through the options u that come up on the T_V_.


like 'cause if you just have like one menu button , that works like with a you know , or you can just kind of scroll through the options u that come up on the T_V_.

Well for sure we need the um  I think we can just design the channels ? I mean power's just a button , and it's not used that much ,


Well for sure we need the um  I think we can just design the channels ? I mean power's just a button , and it's not used that much ,


and I think it's quite nice to keep it like red.


and I think it's quite nice to keep it like red.

You know , I've seen some remotes that  where you just hold one , like if you hold one down it's it's a different colour than the other buttons but that turns it on. So you don't actually have a separate power button , it's just


You know , I've seen some remotes that  where you just hold one , like if you hold one down it's it's a different colour than the other buttons but that turns it on. So you don't actually have a separate power button , it's just

It seems like that would be hard though.


It seems like that would be hard though.


yeah. Just 'cause I wouldn't  I would probably pick it up and just be like uh why is there no on button.


yeah. Just 'cause I wouldn't  I would probably pick it up and just be like uh why is there no on button.

Yeah. Besides you like to be able to go power.


yeah. Just 'cause I wouldn't  I would probably pick it up and just be like uh why is there no on button.

Yeah. Besides you like to be able to go power.

Yeah , I never think to hold something down.


Yeah. Besides you like to be able to go power.

Yeah , I never think to hold something down.


Yeah , I never think to hold something down.


I guess. So we definitely want a power button and numbers. Right.


I guess. So we definitely want a power button and numbers. Right.

Well even um iPod thing   , like um , I don't know if people like this but if you want to reduce the number , of buttons , instead of having like one to nine , have a sort of


I guess. So we definitely want a power button and numbers. Right.

Well even um iPod thing   , like um , I don't know if people like this but if you want to reduce the number , of buttons , instead of having like one to nine , have a sort of

That sort of like joystick flat touch thing , yeah.


Well even um iPod thing   , like um , I don't know if people like this but if you want to reduce the number , of buttons , instead of having like one to nine , have a sort of

That sort of like joystick flat touch thing , yeah.


That sort of like joystick flat touch thing , yeah.

Yeah. Because people li seem  now the iPod's out people seem to like this thing that there's no  Know you don't have one two three four five


Yeah. Because people li seem  now the iPod's out people seem to like this thing that there's no  Know you don't have one two three four five

Yeah , yeah. I think that's an interesting idea , 'cause it's cool ,


Yeah. Because people li seem  now the iPod's out people seem to like this thing that there's no  Know you don't have one two three four five

Yeah , yeah. I think that's an interesting idea , 'cause it's cool ,

it's it's funny like you f like I just  I don't have an iPod but like I , you know , I just like started messing around with one of my friend's the other day , and you just sort of and  it's funny how you pick it up and you just figure out how to use it quite easily , like it's not that hard , you know.


Yeah , yeah. I think that's an interesting idea , 'cause it's cool ,

it's it's funny like you f like I just  I don't have an iPod but like I , you know , I just like started messing around with one of my friend's the other day , and you just sort of and  it's funny how you pick it up and you just figure out how to use it quite easily , like it's not that hard , you know.


it's it's funny like you f like I just  I don't have an iPod but like I , you know , I just like started messing around with one of my friend's the other day , and you just sort of and  it's funny how you pick it up and you just figure out how to use it quite easily , like it's not that hard , you know.

Yeah yeah , it's just  and it's one thing which has everything.


it's it's funny like you f like I just  I don't have an iPod but like I , you know , I just like started messing around with one of my friend's the other day , and you just sort of and  it's funny how you pick it up and you just figure out how to use it quite easily , like it's not that hard , you know.

Yeah yeah , it's just  and it's one thing which has everything.

Yeah , and it is  yeah. It is really  but do you need a screen then , do you have to have a screen then ?


Yeah yeah , it's just  and it's one thing which has everything.

Yeah , and it is  yeah. It is really  but do you need a screen then , do you have to have a screen then ?

Well can't it tell the  like can't you  if you


Yeah yeah , it's just  and it's one thing which has everything.

Yeah , and it is  yeah. It is really  but do you need a screen then , do you have to have a screen then ?

Well can't it tell the  like can't you  if you

Yeah , you can have the number going around in the corner.


Yeah , and it is  yeah. It is really  but do you need a screen then , do you have to have a screen then ?

Well can't it tell the  like can't you  if you

Yeah , you can have the number going around in the corner.


Well can't it tell the  like can't you  if you

Yeah , you can have the number going around in the corner.

you can have the number on the telly going like one two three four five once you scroll and then


Yeah , you can have the number going around in the corner.

you can have the number on the telly going like one two three four five once you scroll and then

Yeah. Yeah. Okay so we have this like scrolling sort of button.


you can have the number on the telly going like one two three four five once you scroll and then

Yeah. Yeah. Okay so we have this like scrolling sort of button.

Oh that's gonna  Is that like on on a mouse pad where like kind of


you can have the number on the telly going like one two three four five once you scroll and then

Yeah. Yeah. Okay so we have this like scrolling sort of button.

Oh that's gonna  Is that like on on a mouse pad where like kind of

Like a disc. Yeah. Yeah. It's like  it's just like the same technology as a mouse pad.


Yeah. Yeah. Okay so we have this like scrolling sort of button.

Oh that's gonna  Is that like on on a mouse pad where like kind of

Like a disc. Yeah. Yeah. It's like  it's just like the same technology as a mouse pad.


Oh that's gonna  Is that like on on a mouse pad where like kind of

Like a disc. Yeah. Yeah. It's like  it's just like the same technology as a mouse pad.

It's like l this  like that , and then you do that.


Like a disc. Yeah. Yeah. It's like  it's just like the same technology as a mouse pad.

It's like l this  like that , and then you do that.


It's like l this  like that , and then you do that.


It's like l this  like that , and then you do that.

And then you can have um   if you actually just want to zap , you can have like a thing  like that , and that , and then it can just be plus and minus.


And then you can have um   if you actually just want to zap , you can have like a thing  like that , and that , and then it can just be plus and minus.

Okay. So like it's like a little part of the circle that  Or it  oh so it's just a region of the circle that you can


Okay. So like it's like a little part of the circle that  Or it  oh so it's just a region of the circle that you can


Yeah , click o actually click on to have


Yeah , click o actually click on to have

We could we could even have four buttons , like , if that's the if that's the mouse , you could have the volume and the channel changers just like on that as well.


We could we could even have four buttons , like , if that's the if that's the mouse , you could have the volume and the channel changers just like on that as well.

Yeah. So volume could be like the top it and the bottom  So do you need to


Yeah. So volume could be like the top it and the bottom  So do you need to


Well y you have to you have to like be able to change the function of it to like


Well y you have to you have to like be able to change the function of it to like

I mean like okay , 'cause so  I dunno , I guess  Okay  so when you g scroll your thumb like around it , it'll s like say you're go you're going clockwise. That that means you're gonna go up the channels , and then you scroll the other way and it'll go down.


I mean like okay , 'cause so  I dunno , I guess  Okay  so when you g scroll your thumb like around it , it'll s like say you're go you're going clockwise. That that means you're gonna go up the channels , and then you scroll the other way and it'll go down.


so if you wanna switch to the  to u do you have to switch to a function where like y so you're either in that mode or you're in the mode where like it just has like the four like you know this is channel that way , that's that way and volume is up and down.


Yeah. So you just you just can either do this or like you can just touch it if you want.


Yeah. So you just you just can either do this or like you can just touch it if you want.

Well for the volume you have to press the middle , and then go up.


Yeah. So you just you just can either do this or like you can just touch it if you want.

Well for the volume you have to press the middle , and then go up.

Okay. That's what I mean. Okay. Okay so you have to like press this middle region and then you can scroll up , go up and down.


Well for the volume you have to press the middle , and then go up.

Okay. That's what I mean. Okay. Okay so you have to like press this middle region and then you can scroll up , go up and down.


Okay. That's what I mean. Okay. Okay so you have to like press this middle region and then you can scroll up , go up and down.

And then  well if you do that it goes , but if you  like that makes more sense 'cause there's already ones with up and down here , that I've seen.


And then  well if you do that it goes , but if you  like that makes more sense 'cause there's already ones with up and down here , that I've seen.

You can  o And you you  is there an extra actual button ? Or are you actually  you're just using the mouse to go up and down.


You can  o And you you  is there an extra actual button ? Or are you actually  you're just using the mouse to go up and down.


for the iPod you press an  w right if you're on the channel let's say , then you press on the middle and then if you do that again the volume goes up , and if you do that it goes down.


for the iPod you press an  w right if you're on the channel let's say , then you press on the middle and then if you do that again the volume goes up , and if you do that it goes down.

But if you wanna keep it with volume here and here , I'm pretty sure


for the iPod you press an  w right if you're on the channel let's say , then you press on the middle and then if you do that again the volume goes up , and if you do that it goes down.

But if you wanna keep it with volume here and here , I'm pretty sure

Well I mean if if you're gonna this for channels , right , then y wouldn't the volume need to be separate somehow ?


But if you wanna keep it with volume here and here , I'm pretty sure

Well I mean if if you're gonna this for channels , right , then y wouldn't the volume need to be separate somehow ?


Well I mean if if you're gonna this for channels , right , then y wouldn't the volume need to be separate somehow ?


you could click and then have it up and down ,


I think we can go on the fact that it does just work with the iPod.


But the only thing is like , iPods are so expensive , like , it has to be  is that part of


But the only thing is like , iPods are so expensive , like , it has to be  is that part of

Is that what makes them expensi I think it's all of


Is that what makes them expensi I think it's all of

they have so much memory though , that's  it's


they have so much memory though , that's  it's


Yeah. I think it's the uh h it's their capabili I mean they  it can hold what like five thousand songs or something.


Yeah. I'm thinking we could  if if we're hav So ba I mean but an iPod just has that circle thing you know.


Yeah. I'm thinking we could  if if we're hav So ba I mean but an iPod just has that circle thing you know.

And they're re-programmable aren't they ?


Yeah. I'm thinking we could  if if we're hav So ba I mean but an iPod just has that circle thing you know.

And they're re-programmable aren't they ?

You can put on your songs and then put on a different set ,


And they're re-programmable aren't they ?

You can put on your songs and then put on a different set ,


You can put on your songs and then put on a different set ,

that's probably why they're expensive , they're like little computers.


that's probably why they're expensive , they're like little computers.

Yeah. Well like since it just has the circle thing , you could make it a qui a kind of cool shape , like it could be a cool sort of you know , because it could be circular , you know , or something weird like that , just


Yeah. Well like since it just has the circle thing , you could make it a qui a kind of cool shape , like it could be a cool sort of you know , because it could be circular , you know , or something weird like that , just


Yeah. Well like since it just has the circle thing , you could make it a qui a kind of cool shape , like it could be a cool sort of you know , because it could be circular , you know , or something weird like that , just

Yeah yeah yeah. Well it could just be simple instead of being a l mass. Because , the other thing , I didn't tell you all my presentation  , is that people find it  find that it's a big waste of time to have to learn how to use your remote


Yeah yeah yeah. Well it could just be simple instead of being a l mass. Because , the other thing , I didn't tell you all my presentation  , is that people find it  find that it's a big waste of time to have to learn how to use your remote


Yeah yeah yeah. Well it could just be simple instead of being a l mass. Because , the other thing , I didn't tell you all my presentation  , is that people find it  find that it's a big waste of time to have to learn how to use your remote

and that's another thing they complained about.


and that's another thing they complained about.


and that's another thing they complained about.

Um , what other buttons were there ? Volume  oh we've ts just said that.


Um , what other buttons were there ? Volume  oh we've ts just said that.


Um , what other buttons were there ? Volume  oh we've ts just said that.

This is just for T_V_ , it's not for  or it is  does need to be compatible with


This is just for T_V_ , it's not for  or it is  does need to be compatible with


This is just for T_V_ , it's not for  or it is  does need to be compatible with

I  A D_V_D_ is simple , you just have play , pause , eject ,


I  A D_V_D_ is simple , you just have play , pause , eject ,

You know actually our our new project requirements , I'm not sure if they meant o onl use only for television as in not for D_V_D_ or just not internet type things.


You know actually our our new project requirements , I'm not sure if they meant o onl use only for television as in not for D_V_D_ or just not internet type things.


So I'll I'll check that and update you on the next


But D_V_D_ players usually have their own remote.


But D_V_D_ players usually have their own remote.

So , I know I'm not c really clear on what


So , I know I'm not c really clear on what

But it's cool to have it all on one , because you wanna turn it on then you wanna turn up the volume , and then you wanna go to the menu , so you don't wanna switch.


But it's cool to have it all on one , because you wanna turn it on then you wanna turn up the volume , and then you wanna go to the menu , so you don't wanna switch.


I think  you would have to have like a function switch button , you know somewhere so like you can  you're either on T_V_ , you're on D_V_D_ or you're on V_C_R_ , or you're like. So


I think  you would have to have like a function switch button , you know somewhere so like you can  you're either on T_V_ , you're on D_V_D_ or you're on V_C_R_ , or you're like. So

Well but D_V_D_ is only like four buttons.


Well but D_V_D_ is only like four buttons.


Well but D_V_D_ is only like four buttons.

but I mean like to switch the fun so like to switch the function of the little circle disc , the touch pad.


but I mean like to switch the fun so like to switch the function of the little circle disc , the touch pad.


but I mean like to switch the fun so like to switch the function of the little circle disc , the touch pad.

Oh. But I think the circle only does  channel isn't applicable to D_V_D_ really 'cause you don't wanna


Oh. But I think the circle only does  channel isn't applicable to D_V_D_ really 'cause you don't wanna

but volume is and volume is actually controlled on the T_V_ so you don't have to switch.


Oh. But I think the circle only does  channel isn't applicable to D_V_D_ really 'cause you don't wanna

but volume is and volume is actually controlled on the T_V_ so you don't have to switch.

So  but I'm saying like , does it make sense to have like some kind of a button , so like you're  if you're on T_V_ , like you can switch channels , but then if uh if you're on D_V_D_ then like the channel bu like the the region of the disc that was for channels is for like switching to different tracks or s you know , to different  I mean do we need to think about that ,


but volume is and volume is actually controlled on the T_V_ so you don't have to switch.

So  but I'm saying like , does it make sense to have like some kind of a button , so like you're  if you're on T_V_ , like you can switch channels , but then if uh if you're on D_V_D_ then like the channel bu like the the region of the disc that was for channels is for like switching to different tracks or s you know , to different  I mean do we need to think about that ,


So  but I'm saying like , does it make sense to have like some kind of a button , so like you're  if you're on T_V_ , like you can switch channels , but then if uh if you're on D_V_D_ then like the channel bu like the the region of the disc that was for channels is for like switching to different tracks or s you know , to different  I mean do we need to think about that ,


Here we go. Welcome everybody. Um , I'm Abigail Claflin. You can call me Abbie. 'S see. PowerPoint , that's not it. There we go. So this is our kick off meeting. Um and I guess we should all get acquainted .  Let's  shall we all introduce ourselves ?

Hi I'm Chiara , I'm the um Marketing Expert. Um , would you like me to talk about my aims at the moment , or would you like me to just say my name and then we can talk about business later ?

I think we'll get around to that , yeah. So this is just introductions yeah.


Hi I'm Chiara , I'm the um Marketing Expert. Um , would you like me to talk about my aims at the moment , or would you like me to just say my name and then we can talk about business later ?

I think we'll get around to that , yeah. So this is just introductions yeah.

We'll get round to that later. My name is Chiara and I'm the Marketing Expert.


Hi I'm Chiara , I'm the um Marketing Expert. Um , would you like me to talk about my aims at the moment , or would you like me to just say my name and then we can talk about business later ?

I think we'll get around to that , yeah. So this is just introductions yeah.

We'll get round to that later. My name is Chiara and I'm the Marketing Expert.

Okay. I forgot to s say I'm the Project Manager but I figured you all knew that already ,


I think we'll get around to that , yeah. So this is just introductions yeah.

We'll get round to that later. My name is Chiara and I'm the Marketing Expert.

Okay. I forgot to s say I'm the Project Manager but I figured you all knew that already ,


We'll get round to that later. My name is Chiara and I'm the Marketing Expert.

Okay. I forgot to s say I'm the Project Manager but I figured you all knew that already ,

I'm Stephanie and I am the User Interface Designer.


Okay. I forgot to s say I'm the Project Manager but I figured you all knew that already ,

I'm Stephanie and I am the User Interface Designer.

I'm Krista and I'm the Industrial Designer.


I'm Stephanie and I am the User Interface Designer.

I'm Krista and I'm the Industrial Designer.

Okay. Um so f here's our agenda for today. Um we're gonna do some tool training , project plan and discuss then close.  Um so. So our aim is to produce a remote control that is original , trendy and user friendly. And to do this , we have to  um there's certain things we have to consider about functional aspects and conceptual design of the thing. So. We'll get to that. Oh there it is. Right. Functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. So throughout our next couple of meetings we'll we'll be covering these things. Um  so we're gonna try out our white board. If we'll all draw our favourite animal , to sum up the characteristics of that animal. Okay.


I'm Stephanie and I am the User Interface Designer.

I'm Krista and I'm the Industrial Designer.

Okay. Um so f here's our agenda for today. Um we're gonna do some tool training , project plan and discuss then close.  Um so. So our aim is to produce a remote control that is original , trendy and user friendly. And to do this , we have to  um there's certain things we have to consider about functional aspects and conceptual design of the thing. So. We'll get to that. Oh there it is. Right. Functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. So throughout our next couple of meetings we'll we'll be covering these things. Um  so we're gonna try out our white board. If we'll all draw our favourite animal , to sum up the characteristics of that animal. Okay.

So you want us to draw it and then talk about it ? Or just draw it ?


I'm Krista and I'm the Industrial Designer.

Okay. Um so f here's our agenda for today. Um we're gonna do some tool training , project plan and discuss then close.  Um so. So our aim is to produce a remote control that is original , trendy and user friendly. And to do this , we have to  um there's certain things we have to consider about functional aspects and conceptual design of the thing. So. We'll get to that. Oh there it is. Right. Functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. So throughout our next couple of meetings we'll we'll be covering these things. Um  so we're gonna try out our white board. If we'll all draw our favourite animal , to sum up the characteristics of that animal. Okay.

So you want us to draw it and then talk about it ? Or just draw it ?


Okay. Um so f here's our agenda for today. Um we're gonna do some tool training , project plan and discuss then close.  Um so. So our aim is to produce a remote control that is original , trendy and user friendly. And to do this , we have to  um there's certain things we have to consider about functional aspects and conceptual design of the thing. So. We'll get to that. Oh there it is. Right. Functional design , conceptual design and detailed design. So throughout our next couple of meetings we'll we'll be covering these things. Um  so we're gonna try out our white board. If we'll all draw our favourite animal , to sum up the characteristics of that animal. Okay.

So you want us to draw it and then talk about it ? Or just draw it ?


So you want us to draw it and then talk about it ? Or just draw it ?


Who starts ? We ought to decide who starts and  all that. No ?


Mm , I gotta think about it for a second like. Uh  Does it have to be  functional , trendy and user friendly ?


Mm , I gotta think about it for a second like. Uh  Does it have to be  functional , trendy and user friendly ?

Make sure  my things here. Uh-oh. Right. Okay , my favourite animal is  see.  Oops.


Make sure  my things here. Uh-oh. Right. Okay , my favourite animal is  see.  Oops.


Yeah , I guess it has a fin on top too , yeah.  It's my dolphin.


Yeah , I guess it has a fin on top too , yeah.  It's my dolphin.

So what characteristics do you like about your animal ?


Yeah , I guess it has a fin on top too , yeah.  It's my dolphin.

So what characteristics do you like about your animal ?

Um , no , I think dolphins are really uh  I dunno , they're smart and they they're cute and they like swimming and that's cool , like


So what characteristics do you like about your animal ?

Um , no , I think dolphins are really uh  I dunno , they're smart and they they're cute and they like swimming and that's cool , like


Um , no , I think dolphins are really uh  I dunno , they're smart and they they're cute and they like swimming and that's cool , like


and they look intelligent and I don't know , they're  I guess it's the whole like binocular vision thing.


and they look intelligent and I don't know , they're  I guess it's the whole like binocular vision thing.

I don't know how intelligent that one looks .


and they look intelligent and I don't know , they're  I guess it's the whole like binocular vision thing.

I don't know how intelligent that one looks .

Yeah he he doesn't look that smart . He's a   I dunno um they're  I think it's cool the the um  the interaction that or the th things that  the reasons people seem to like you know  you get ex you know people are sitting on the beach and p they're like oh look there's dolphins and it's kinda like   but they're you know they jump around in the water and they're happy and they're mammals , but they swim.


and they look intelligent and I don't know , they're  I guess it's the whole like binocular vision thing.

I don't know how intelligent that one looks .

Yeah he he doesn't look that smart . He's a   I dunno um they're  I think it's cool the the um  the interaction that or the th things that  the reasons people seem to like you know  you get ex you know people are sitting on the beach and p they're like oh look there's dolphins and it's kinda like   but they're you know they jump around in the water and they're happy and they're mammals , but they swim.

Yes.  Does anybody else wanna draw their animal ?


I don't know how intelligent that one looks .

Yeah he he doesn't look that smart . He's a   I dunno um they're  I think it's cool the the um  the interaction that or the th things that  the reasons people seem to like you know  you get ex you know people are sitting on the beach and p they're like oh look there's dolphins and it's kinda like   but they're you know they jump around in the water and they're happy and they're mammals , but they swim.

Yes.  Does anybody else wanna draw their animal ?


Yeah he he doesn't look that smart . He's a   I dunno um they're  I think it's cool the the um  the interaction that or the th things that  the reasons people seem to like you know  you get ex you know people are sitting on the beach and p they're like oh look there's dolphins and it's kinda like   but they're you know they jump around in the water and they're happy and they're mammals , but they swim.

Yes.  Does anybody else wanna draw their animal ?


Yes.  Does anybody else wanna draw their animal ?


I don't know. They sleep all day ,  they're easy to draw .


Well I had the cat as well , but uh I've got a spare one.


Well I had the cat as well , but uh I've got a spare one.

So I'll use the spare one. Um but it's harder to draw  um.


So I'll use the spare one. Um but it's harder to draw  um.


Uh. Um I don't  really know how the legs go ,


Uh. Um I don't  really know how the legs go ,

but anyway I will do that. Um , and the main reason is they're pretty. I think they're very pretty and they go well with the environment , and I like the way they run and I used to do horse riding and they're just very sort of sturdy and nice animals. And I like the way um they feel , sort of under under the hand , I think that's pretty much it. Um


Uh. Um I don't  really know how the legs go ,

but anyway I will do that. Um , and the main reason is they're pretty. I think they're very pretty and they go well with the environment , and I like the way they run and I used to do horse riding and they're just very sort of sturdy and nice animals. And I like the way um they feel , sort of under under the hand , I think that's pretty much it. Um

Yeah. This cord's   Uh. Right. Actually I haven't thought of anything yet . Uh  It's a pig.


but anyway I will do that. Um , and the main reason is they're pretty. I think they're very pretty and they go well with the environment , and I like the way they run and I used to do horse riding and they're just very sort of sturdy and nice animals. And I like the way um they feel , sort of under under the hand , I think that's pretty much it. Um

Yeah. This cord's   Uh. Right. Actually I haven't thought of anything yet . Uh  It's a pig.

So I'm thinking we should design a remote control that's water resistant , strong and furry. What do you think , yeah ? This is


Yeah. This cord's   Uh. Right. Actually I haven't thought of anything yet . Uh  It's a pig.

So I'm thinking we should design a remote control that's water resistant , strong and furry. What do you think , yeah ? This is

yeah , well like a cat , you know , soft yeah.


So I'm thinking we should design a remote control that's water resistant , strong and furry. What do you think , yeah ? This is

yeah , well like a cat , you know , soft yeah.

Textile  tactile ,  tactile remote control.


yeah , well like a cat , you know , soft yeah.

Textile  tactile ,  tactile remote control.

Although  uh I'll just put there. Right.


Textile  tactile ,  tactile remote control.

Although  uh I'll just put there. Right.

Oh my gosh , this is disastrous. Sorry about that.  Okay.  So moving on. Our selling price goal is twenty five Euro and profit aim is fifty million Euro. So I'm guessing that we're not actually in Scotland , we're in some European country . Um , and we will hope to sell this internationally.


Although  uh I'll just put there. Right.

Oh my gosh , this is disastrous. Sorry about that.  Okay.  So moving on. Our selling price goal is twenty five Euro and profit aim is fifty million Euro. So I'm guessing that we're not actually in Scotland , we're in some European country . Um , and we will hope to sell this internationally.

Sorry can you just say that  what's the  what are our price goals again ?


Oh my gosh , this is disastrous. Sorry about that.  Okay.  So moving on. Our selling price goal is twenty five Euro and profit aim is fifty million Euro. So I'm guessing that we're not actually in Scotland , we're in some European country . Um , and we will hope to sell this internationally.

Sorry can you just say that  what's the  what are our price goals again ?

Um selling price is twenty five Euro. Profit aim fifty million Euro.


Sorry can you just say that  what's the  what are our price goals again ?

Um selling price is twenty five Euro. Profit aim fifty million Euro.

How many should we sell then ?  Um , a lot ,


Um selling price is twenty five Euro. Profit aim fifty million Euro.

How many should we sell then ?  Um , a lot ,


How many should we sell then ?  Um , a lot ,

two two two million ,  two mi no , more f four million.


two two two million ,  two mi no , more f four million.


two two two million ,  two mi no , more f four million.

well it's the profit so if a profit for each is twelve fifty , that'll do four million.


well it's the profit so if a profit for each is twelve fifty , that'll do four million.


well it's the profit so if a profit for each is twelve fifty , that'll do four million.

So f that's a fifty percent um uh. Um , I don't know what these mean because I didn't actually make the slide-show. Experience with remote control. So I guess we have to reflect on our experiences with remote controls to decide what um we would like to see in a convenient , practical , nice remote control. Um so do we have any initial ideas for uh how this remote control should be designed or formatted or the the buttons it should have.


So f that's a fifty percent um uh. Um , I don't know what these mean because I didn't actually make the slide-show. Experience with remote control. So I guess we have to reflect on our experiences with remote controls to decide what um we would like to see in a convenient , practical , nice remote control. Um so do we have any initial ideas for uh how this remote control should be designed or formatted or the the buttons it should have.

Um , I think one thing is that it should be easy to find


Um , I think one thing is that it should be easy to find


I think we should design something that has like a  so you can  like somehow like you  I mean you always know where your T_V_ is , so just have a call button ,


I think we should design something that has like a  so you can  like somehow like you  I mean you always know where your T_V_ is , so just have a call button ,

so like  you can push a button on your T_V_


so like  you can push a button on your T_V_


so like  you can push a button on your T_V_

I mean you have it for the portable phone , so why not  yeah.


so like  you can push a button on your T_V_

I mean you have it for the portable phone , so why not  yeah.

Yeah , yeah yeah yeah , so you should have a call button on your television to be able to find your remote control.


I mean you have it for the portable phone , so why not  yeah.

Yeah , yeah yeah yeah , so you should have a call button on your television to be able to find your remote control.

Yeah. And even I think a little light. Um or even a  maybe a vib a vibrating thing. I dunno but someth because it's usually under the sofa.


Yeah , yeah yeah yeah , so you should have a call button on your television to be able to find your remote control.

Yeah. And even I think a little light. Um or even a  maybe a vib a vibrating thing. I dunno but someth because it's usually under the sofa.

In which case you're going to be l but if it has a sort of signal which isn't any sound


Yeah. And even I think a little light. Um or even a  maybe a vib a vibrating thing. I dunno but someth because it's usually under the sofa.

In which case you're going to be l but if it has a sort of signal which isn't any sound


In which case you're going to be l but if it has a sort of signal which isn't any sound


In which case you're going to be l but if it has a sort of signal which isn't any sound

I don't  yeah I mean it  but like I mean


I don't  yeah I mean it  but like I mean


I don't  yeah I mean it  but like I mean

just I mean like your phone even just has so  like it can vibrate , it can light up and make noise and I dunno


just I mean like your phone even just has so  like it can vibrate , it can light up and make noise and I dunno

What if it had something like um just like a magnet on the back of it and you could  I mean j just to have some place to put it besides like a base. You know like a portable phone has a base ,


What if it had something like um just like a magnet on the back of it and you could  I mean j just to have some place to put it besides like a base. You know like a portable phone has a base ,


'Cause people just stick it on top of their T_V_ , but the point of having a remote is not to have to walk over to the T_V_ , so


'Cause people just stick it on top of their T_V_ , but the point of having a remote is not to have to walk over to the T_V_ , so

Well that's why it's always in the couch.


Well that's why it's always in the couch.


I dunno , it seems like though that that would be hard , 'cause you not you're not gonna be lazy anyway and


I dunno , it seems like though that that would be hard , 'cause you not you're not gonna be lazy anyway and

Yeah. Maybe we should design couches that have the remote control in the side arm.


I dunno , it seems like though that that would be hard , 'cause you not you're not gonna be lazy anyway and

Yeah. Maybe we should design couches that have the remote control in the side arm.

Yeah so we   the project is now couches and remote controls.


I dunno , it seems like though that that would be hard , 'cause you not you're not gonna be lazy anyway and

Yeah. Maybe we should design couches that have the remote control in the side arm.

Yeah so we   the project is now couches and remote controls.

But even just a thing to attach it to the w you know if you had a thing , a pretty object attached to the wall. But that would really make it more expensive.


Yeah. Maybe we should design couches that have the remote control in the side arm.

Yeah so we   the project is now couches and remote controls.

But even just a thing to attach it to the w you know if you had a thing , a pretty object attached to the wall. But that would really make it more expensive.


Yeah so we   the project is now couches and remote controls.

But even just a thing to attach it to the w you know if you had a thing , a pretty object attached to the wall. But that would really make it more expensive.

But it's only a plastic thing , r really , the thing on the wall.


But even just a thing to attach it to the w you know if you had a thing , a pretty object attached to the wall. But that would really make it more expensive.

But it's only a plastic thing , r really , the thing on the wall.


But it's only a plastic thing , r really , the thing on the wall.


Do you think it needs to be bigger to not lose , or does that not factor in ?


It can't be that hard to put some kind of a noise on it.


Or like or like a light thing. You know. I dunno


Or like or like a light thing. You know. I dunno

. Yeah . Or make it mobile so it runs around and comes come find you yeah .


Or like or like a light thing. You know. I dunno

. Yeah . Or make it mobile so it runs around and comes come find you yeah .

That would be really  I'm sure we could do that for twenty five Euros a pop.


. Yeah . Or make it mobile so it runs around and comes come find you yeah .

That would be really  I'm sure we could do that for twenty five Euros a pop.


That would be really  I'm sure we could do that for twenty five Euros a pop.

Okay. So what do we think this remote control should  Five minutes.


Okay. So what do we think this remote control should  Five minutes.


Okay. So what do we think this remote control should  Five minutes.

Till the meeting  oh right. This is what we have left. Um , oh we just


Okay. So what do we think this remote control should  Five minutes.

Till the meeting  oh right. This is what we have left. Um , oh we just

I also think though that it shouldn't have too many buttons ,


Till the meeting  oh right. This is what we have left. Um , oh we just

I also think though that it shouldn't have too many buttons ,


Till the meeting  oh right. This is what we have left. Um , oh we just

I also think though that it shouldn't have too many buttons ,

'cause I hate that when they have too many buttons and


I also think though that it shouldn't have too many buttons ,

'cause I hate that when they have too many buttons and


'cause I hate that when they have too many buttons and

B_ button and the F_ button , they don't do anything.


B_ button and the F_ button , they don't do anything.

I mean I know it has to have enough functions but like , I don't know you , just have like eight thousand buttons and you're like , no , you never use half of them. So.


B_ button and the F_ button , they don't do anything.

I mean I know it has to have enough functions but like , I don't know you , just have like eight thousand buttons and you're like , no , you never use half of them. So.

You  what if um may be a little fancy but what if it had like a little screen , so it has less buttons but it still has all the functions. Like the way a mobile phone does.


I mean I know it has to have enough functions but like , I don't know you , just have like eight thousand buttons and you're like , no , you never use half of them. So.

You  what if um may be a little fancy but what if it had like a little screen , so it has less buttons but it still has all the functions. Like the way a mobile phone does.


You  what if um may be a little fancy but what if it had like a little screen , so it has less buttons but it still has all the functions. Like the way a mobile phone does.


So you could like um  like if you have I dunno if you have satellite if you have a hundred channels , you can  the way you do it on your radio is that you uh


s y yeah but you can programme , so you can programme like your favourite channels , so like if you had a s


s y yeah but you can programme , so you can programme like your favourite channels , so like if you had a s

But , would you have the screen on the thing , or would you have it on the telly transmitting the screen.


But , would you have the screen on the thing , or would you have it on the telly transmitting the screen.

I guess they would go together somehow ? I dunno.


I guess they would go together somehow ? I dunno.

Because , I don't know if it's   I think it's e expensive , if you have  if you use the telly screen , 'cause the telly's already a screen , then you can pro sort of have a programming function , really easy sort of arrow up and down , on the remote ,


Because , I don't know if it's   I think it's e expensive , if you have  if you use the telly screen , 'cause the telly's already a screen , then you can pro sort of have a programming function , really easy sort of arrow up and down , on the remote ,


But yeah for sure. Something like not  it's not on the button but it's telling you what to do ,


Or like you h you see those you know people  I'm thinking of like celebrity cribs kind of things when like they have all those  these things that at their house you know  their their entire house is so electronic , and they have like this one master control that  and it's like a hand held like  turns on everything sort of control and it has like a screen and like  so I think it should be possible to have some kind of a screen , I don't know if  it must be  it would probably


Or like you h you see those you know people  I'm thinking of like celebrity cribs kind of things when like they have all those  these things that at their house you know  their their entire house is so electronic , and they have like this one master control that  and it's like a hand held like  turns on everything sort of control and it has like a screen and like  so I think it should be possible to have some kind of a screen , I don't know if  it must be  it would probably

must be ex too expensive though t like I dunno.


must be ex too expensive though t like I dunno.

But like mobile phones have screens and they're cheap.


But like mobile phones have screens and they're cheap.

Yeah. I mean , we have to remember our budget is twelve point  twelve fifty for  to actually make the device.


Yeah. I mean , we have to remember our budget is twelve point  twelve fifty for  to actually make the device.


Yeah. I mean , we have to remember our budget is twelve point  twelve fifty for  to actually make the device.

Um but it's something to think about , yeah.


Um but it's something to think about , yeah.

Well , I guess we have to get to that later , yeah.


Um but it's something to think about , yeah.

Well , I guess we have to get to that later , yeah.

I mean we'll have to see how much that would be.


Um but it's something to think about , yeah.

Well , I guess we have to get to that later , yeah.

I mean we'll have to see how much that would be.

Or some  it i we can find out probably on the internet  how much it's


Well , I guess we have to get to that later , yeah.

I mean we'll have to see how much that would be.

Or some  it i we can find out probably on the internet  how much it's


I mean we'll have to see how much that would be.

Or some  it i we can find out probably on the internet  how much it's

Um. Yeah , and the other thing you said that thing about robust and water um


Or some  it i we can find out probably on the internet  how much it's

Um. Yeah , and the other thing you said that thing about robust and water um


Um. Yeah , and the other thing you said that thing about robust and water um


Good feel , tact tactile , good tactile feel ,


Good feel , tact tactile , good tactile feel ,

maybe something didn doesn't make your hands sweat lot.


maybe something didn doesn't make your hands sweat lot.


maybe something didn doesn't make your hands sweat lot.

Maybe um just like a simple thing to have a clip on it , like so you can clip it to your


Maybe um just like a simple thing to have a clip on it , like so you can clip it to your


Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the first virtual meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I determine that the public are excluded from the committee's meeting, in order to protect public health. In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for this meeting, which was published last Friday. This meeting is, however, being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, with all participants joining via video conference. A record of the proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptation relating to conducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements for committees remain in place. The meeting is bilingual, and simultaneous translation from Welsh to English is available. Can I remind all participants that the microphones will be controlled centrally, so there's no need to turn them on and off individually? Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Can I just then, again, note for the record that, if, for any reason, I drop out of the meeting, the committee has agreed that Dawn Bowden AM will temporarily chair while I try to rejoin? Item 2, then, this afternoon is an evidence session with the Welsh Government on the impact of the coronavirus epidemic on education in Wales. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, Steve Davies, director of the education directorate, and Huw Morris, who is group director, skills, higher education and lifelong learning. Can I welcome you all and thank you for attending? Minister, I understand you'd like to make a short opening statement.

Thank you very much, Lynne. And indeed, if I could just begin by, once again, putting on the record my gratitude to everyone who is helping us get through this pandemic. There are a vast number of people who are keeping our school hubs open, looking after vulnerable children, and the children of key workers. Because of them, and their efforts, those key workers are able to carry on their critical roles in responding to COVID-19. I am extremely proud of the way that members of the school community have gone above and beyond. They have kept their schools open out of hours, over the weekends, on bank holidays, and Easter. And it is really heartening and humbling to see the way that they have responded to this crisis. And there are teachers, teaching assistants, and many others, who are helping our children and their parents to keep learning at home. I know that home schooling isn't easy, so I want to say also thank you to parents and carers for their efforts at this time. By keeping their children at home, they are helping us to keep people safe, and reducing pressure on our education system, and on our NHS. Be in no doubt, we are facing many challenges because of this pandemic. My primary concern is, and always will be, the health and well-being of our children, of our young people, and of all the staff in our education settings. And I am very grateful to everyone who is supporting us in these endeavours. Thank you very much—diolch yn fawr. And I'm now happy to answer questions that members of the committee may have this afternoon.

Thank you very much, Minister. I'm sure that the committee echoes the heartfelt thanks you have just given then. The first questions we've got this afternoon are from Hefin David.


Thank you very much, Lynne. And indeed, if I could just begin by, once again, putting on the record my gratitude to everyone who is helping us get through this pandemic. There are a vast number of people who are keeping our school hubs open, looking after vulnerable children, and the children of key workers. Because of them, and their efforts, those key workers are able to carry on their critical roles in responding to COVID-19. I am extremely proud of the way that members of the school community have gone above and beyond. They have kept their schools open out of hours, over the weekends, on bank holidays, and Easter. And it is really heartening and humbling to see the way that they have responded to this crisis. And there are teachers, teaching assistants, and many others, who are helping our children and their parents to keep learning at home. I know that home schooling isn't easy, so I want to say also thank you to parents and carers for their efforts at this time. By keeping their children at home, they are helping us to keep people safe, and reducing pressure on our education system, and on our NHS. Be in no doubt, we are facing many challenges because of this pandemic. My primary concern is, and always will be, the health and well-being of our children, of our young people, and of all the staff in our education settings. And I am very grateful to everyone who is supporting us in these endeavours. Thank you very much—diolch yn fawr. And I'm now happy to answer questions that members of the committee may have this afternoon.

Thank you very much, Minister. I'm sure that the committee echoes the heartfelt thanks you have just given then. The first questions we've got this afternoon are from Hefin David.

Good afternoon, Minister. With regard to your five principles, which you've set out today, regarding when schools will reopen, they're very clear that they require a judgment from you. So could you outline when you think that schools might reopen?


Thank you very much, Lynne. And indeed, if I could just begin by, once again, putting on the record my gratitude to everyone who is helping us get through this pandemic. There are a vast number of people who are keeping our school hubs open, looking after vulnerable children, and the children of key workers. Because of them, and their efforts, those key workers are able to carry on their critical roles in responding to COVID-19. I am extremely proud of the way that members of the school community have gone above and beyond. They have kept their schools open out of hours, over the weekends, on bank holidays, and Easter. And it is really heartening and humbling to see the way that they have responded to this crisis. And there are teachers, teaching assistants, and many others, who are helping our children and their parents to keep learning at home. I know that home schooling isn't easy, so I want to say also thank you to parents and carers for their efforts at this time. By keeping their children at home, they are helping us to keep people safe, and reducing pressure on our education system, and on our NHS. Be in no doubt, we are facing many challenges because of this pandemic. My primary concern is, and always will be, the health and well-being of our children, of our young people, and of all the staff in our education settings. And I am very grateful to everyone who is supporting us in these endeavours. Thank you very much—diolch yn fawr. And I'm now happy to answer questions that members of the committee may have this afternoon.

Thank you very much, Minister. I'm sure that the committee echoes the heartfelt thanks you have just given then. The first questions we've got this afternoon are from Hefin David.

Good afternoon, Minister. With regard to your five principles, which you've set out today, regarding when schools will reopen, they're very clear that they require a judgment from you. So could you outline when you think that schools might reopen?

Thank you, Hefin. I am very clear that schools will move to a new phase—because, already, schools are open in many settings; we will move to a new phase when it is safe to do so and when I have advice from the chief medical officer and the chief scientific officer that it is safe to do so. I have made very clear in my statement that that is not imminent. I know that in some cases there has been speculation that a return to normal could be with us quite shortly. I'm clear that a return to normal is not imminent, and therefore I'm not in a position to give a date as to when we will see more schools opening up to more children.


Thank you very much, Minister. I'm sure that the committee echoes the heartfelt thanks you have just given then. The first questions we've got this afternoon are from Hefin David.

Good afternoon, Minister. With regard to your five principles, which you've set out today, regarding when schools will reopen, they're very clear that they require a judgment from you. So could you outline when you think that schools might reopen?

Thank you, Hefin. I am very clear that schools will move to a new phase—because, already, schools are open in many settings; we will move to a new phase when it is safe to do so and when I have advice from the chief medical officer and the chief scientific officer that it is safe to do so. I have made very clear in my statement that that is not imminent. I know that in some cases there has been speculation that a return to normal could be with us quite shortly. I'm clear that a return to normal is not imminent, and therefore I'm not in a position to give a date as to when we will see more schools opening up to more children.

Have you been given any indication at all by the chief medical officer as to when, in the longer term, it might be?


Good afternoon, Minister. With regard to your five principles, which you've set out today, regarding when schools will reopen, they're very clear that they require a judgment from you. So could you outline when you think that schools might reopen?

Thank you, Hefin. I am very clear that schools will move to a new phase—because, already, schools are open in many settings; we will move to a new phase when it is safe to do so and when I have advice from the chief medical officer and the chief scientific officer that it is safe to do so. I have made very clear in my statement that that is not imminent. I know that in some cases there has been speculation that a return to normal could be with us quite shortly. I'm clear that a return to normal is not imminent, and therefore I'm not in a position to give a date as to when we will see more schools opening up to more children.

Have you been given any indication at all by the chief medical officer as to when, in the longer term, it might be?

No, I have not been given a date. What I have done today is publish the principles that will aid me in, as you said, me making a decision. So, clearly, we will be relying on the advice of our medical and scientific advisers, but the principles are very clear. Firstly, we will need to consider any decision to have more children returning to school in the context of the safety and the physical and the emotional well-being of children and young people and the staff. Obviously, I can't make a decision regarding education in isolation. It will have to be taken in the context of the wider Welsh Government response to dealing with this pandemic. Thirdly, it is absolutely crucial in making any decisions that we have clearly communicated that to parents and to staff, on the information that we have used to reach any decisions, to build confidence for parents and professionals, but also to give them time to plan. It will be impossible to move quickly to new ways of working. And we also have to look at—and it's been paraphrased quite a lot today—if we are looking at certain groups of children accessing more education within a school setting, which groups they should be. And, finally, how do we operationalise that? How do we make those settings as safe as they possibly can be, and how do we tackle some of the difficult challenges of everything from ensuring that we have adequate numbers of workforce available, to the very real questions about how you would do social distancing in the context of education, school transport issues, how you would avoid people gathering at the school gate, for instance? So, there are very practical issues that would need to be considered and thought through very, very carefully before we could return, before what we could see is a move from where we are now to the next phase of education, and new approaches to what schooling may look like. But, again, I must be absolutely clear to you, members of the committee, and to people watching: it is not feasible, in this sense, that we would move from where we are now to what all of us would regard as normal education and what the operation of schools looked like before the start of this pandemic.


Thank you, Hefin. I am very clear that schools will move to a new phase—because, already, schools are open in many settings; we will move to a new phase when it is safe to do so and when I have advice from the chief medical officer and the chief scientific officer that it is safe to do so. I have made very clear in my statement that that is not imminent. I know that in some cases there has been speculation that a return to normal could be with us quite shortly. I'm clear that a return to normal is not imminent, and therefore I'm not in a position to give a date as to when we will see more schools opening up to more children.

Have you been given any indication at all by the chief medical officer as to when, in the longer term, it might be?

No, I have not been given a date. What I have done today is publish the principles that will aid me in, as you said, me making a decision. So, clearly, we will be relying on the advice of our medical and scientific advisers, but the principles are very clear. Firstly, we will need to consider any decision to have more children returning to school in the context of the safety and the physical and the emotional well-being of children and young people and the staff. Obviously, I can't make a decision regarding education in isolation. It will have to be taken in the context of the wider Welsh Government response to dealing with this pandemic. Thirdly, it is absolutely crucial in making any decisions that we have clearly communicated that to parents and to staff, on the information that we have used to reach any decisions, to build confidence for parents and professionals, but also to give them time to plan. It will be impossible to move quickly to new ways of working. And we also have to look at—and it's been paraphrased quite a lot today—if we are looking at certain groups of children accessing more education within a school setting, which groups they should be. And, finally, how do we operationalise that? How do we make those settings as safe as they possibly can be, and how do we tackle some of the difficult challenges of everything from ensuring that we have adequate numbers of workforce available, to the very real questions about how you would do social distancing in the context of education, school transport issues, how you would avoid people gathering at the school gate, for instance? So, there are very practical issues that would need to be considered and thought through very, very carefully before we could return, before what we could see is a move from where we are now to the next phase of education, and new approaches to what schooling may look like. But, again, I must be absolutely clear to you, members of the committee, and to people watching: it is not feasible, in this sense, that we would move from where we are now to what all of us would regard as normal education and what the operation of schools looked like before the start of this pandemic.

So, what is clear from what you've said is that it's going to be phased return. I would assume that would be the most vulnerable—perhaps additional learning needs pupils would return first. Just reading some of the things that you've said today, can you answer that question? And can I also ask: you said that guiding principle No. 3 will be having the confidence of parents, staff and students, based on evidence and information, so they can plan ahead. What will that evidence and information be, and how will you know that you've got the confidence of parents to return?


Have you been given any indication at all by the chief medical officer as to when, in the longer term, it might be?

No, I have not been given a date. What I have done today is publish the principles that will aid me in, as you said, me making a decision. So, clearly, we will be relying on the advice of our medical and scientific advisers, but the principles are very clear. Firstly, we will need to consider any decision to have more children returning to school in the context of the safety and the physical and the emotional well-being of children and young people and the staff. Obviously, I can't make a decision regarding education in isolation. It will have to be taken in the context of the wider Welsh Government response to dealing with this pandemic. Thirdly, it is absolutely crucial in making any decisions that we have clearly communicated that to parents and to staff, on the information that we have used to reach any decisions, to build confidence for parents and professionals, but also to give them time to plan. It will be impossible to move quickly to new ways of working. And we also have to look at—and it's been paraphrased quite a lot today—if we are looking at certain groups of children accessing more education within a school setting, which groups they should be. And, finally, how do we operationalise that? How do we make those settings as safe as they possibly can be, and how do we tackle some of the difficult challenges of everything from ensuring that we have adequate numbers of workforce available, to the very real questions about how you would do social distancing in the context of education, school transport issues, how you would avoid people gathering at the school gate, for instance? So, there are very practical issues that would need to be considered and thought through very, very carefully before we could return, before what we could see is a move from where we are now to the next phase of education, and new approaches to what schooling may look like. But, again, I must be absolutely clear to you, members of the committee, and to people watching: it is not feasible, in this sense, that we would move from where we are now to what all of us would regard as normal education and what the operation of schools looked like before the start of this pandemic.

So, what is clear from what you've said is that it's going to be phased return. I would assume that would be the most vulnerable—perhaps additional learning needs pupils would return first. Just reading some of the things that you've said today, can you answer that question? And can I also ask: you said that guiding principle No. 3 will be having the confidence of parents, staff and students, based on evidence and information, so they can plan ahead. What will that evidence and information be, and how will you know that you've got the confidence of parents to return?

Well, as I said, primarily, we will need to take a lead from our scientific and medical advisers. I want to also say that we are obviously working on a four-nation basis and keeping in very close contact with my counterparts in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. But we're also looking beyond the United Kingdom to approaches to education in the face of this pandemic. Members are aware that we as a nation are a member of the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory. So, recently I was able to talk to educationalists and Ministers in Iceland, other parts of Europe, North America, South America and Australia. So, we're also looking at best international evidence in this regard. And, clearly, we will need to be very clear, as today is an attempt to be very clear with parents and our teaching professionals, and the unions that represent them, about the basis of that evidence.


No, I have not been given a date. What I have done today is publish the principles that will aid me in, as you said, me making a decision. So, clearly, we will be relying on the advice of our medical and scientific advisers, but the principles are very clear. Firstly, we will need to consider any decision to have more children returning to school in the context of the safety and the physical and the emotional well-being of children and young people and the staff. Obviously, I can't make a decision regarding education in isolation. It will have to be taken in the context of the wider Welsh Government response to dealing with this pandemic. Thirdly, it is absolutely crucial in making any decisions that we have clearly communicated that to parents and to staff, on the information that we have used to reach any decisions, to build confidence for parents and professionals, but also to give them time to plan. It will be impossible to move quickly to new ways of working. And we also have to look at—and it's been paraphrased quite a lot today—if we are looking at certain groups of children accessing more education within a school setting, which groups they should be. And, finally, how do we operationalise that? How do we make those settings as safe as they possibly can be, and how do we tackle some of the difficult challenges of everything from ensuring that we have adequate numbers of workforce available, to the very real questions about how you would do social distancing in the context of education, school transport issues, how you would avoid people gathering at the school gate, for instance? So, there are very practical issues that would need to be considered and thought through very, very carefully before we could return, before what we could see is a move from where we are now to the next phase of education, and new approaches to what schooling may look like. But, again, I must be absolutely clear to you, members of the committee, and to people watching: it is not feasible, in this sense, that we would move from where we are now to what all of us would regard as normal education and what the operation of schools looked like before the start of this pandemic.

So, what is clear from what you've said is that it's going to be phased return. I would assume that would be the most vulnerable—perhaps additional learning needs pupils would return first. Just reading some of the things that you've said today, can you answer that question? And can I also ask: you said that guiding principle No. 3 will be having the confidence of parents, staff and students, based on evidence and information, so they can plan ahead. What will that evidence and information be, and how will you know that you've got the confidence of parents to return?

Well, as I said, primarily, we will need to take a lead from our scientific and medical advisers. I want to also say that we are obviously working on a four-nation basis and keeping in very close contact with my counterparts in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. But we're also looking beyond the United Kingdom to approaches to education in the face of this pandemic. Members are aware that we as a nation are a member of the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory. So, recently I was able to talk to educationalists and Ministers in Iceland, other parts of Europe, North America, South America and Australia. So, we're also looking at best international evidence in this regard. And, clearly, we will need to be very clear, as today is an attempt to be very clear with parents and our teaching professionals, and the unions that represent them, about the basis of that evidence.

And could I just ask, with regard to the principles, do they then apply to further education and universities?


So, what is clear from what you've said is that it's going to be phased return. I would assume that would be the most vulnerable—perhaps additional learning needs pupils would return first. Just reading some of the things that you've said today, can you answer that question? And can I also ask: you said that guiding principle No. 3 will be having the confidence of parents, staff and students, based on evidence and information, so they can plan ahead. What will that evidence and information be, and how will you know that you've got the confidence of parents to return?

Well, as I said, primarily, we will need to take a lead from our scientific and medical advisers. I want to also say that we are obviously working on a four-nation basis and keeping in very close contact with my counterparts in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. But we're also looking beyond the United Kingdom to approaches to education in the face of this pandemic. Members are aware that we as a nation are a member of the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory. So, recently I was able to talk to educationalists and Ministers in Iceland, other parts of Europe, North America, South America and Australia. So, we're also looking at best international evidence in this regard. And, clearly, we will need to be very clear, as today is an attempt to be very clear with parents and our teaching professionals, and the unions that represent them, about the basis of that evidence.

And could I just ask, with regard to the principles, do they then apply to further education and universities?

Well, of course, when we are discussing these challenges, we are doing that with our colleagues in both the school sector but also our colleagues in the FE sector, and we're in close contact with colleagues in higher education to share thinking on these matters.


Well, as I said, primarily, we will need to take a lead from our scientific and medical advisers. I want to also say that we are obviously working on a four-nation basis and keeping in very close contact with my counterparts in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. But we're also looking beyond the United Kingdom to approaches to education in the face of this pandemic. Members are aware that we as a nation are a member of the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory. So, recently I was able to talk to educationalists and Ministers in Iceland, other parts of Europe, North America, South America and Australia. So, we're also looking at best international evidence in this regard. And, clearly, we will need to be very clear, as today is an attempt to be very clear with parents and our teaching professionals, and the unions that represent them, about the basis of that evidence.

And could I just ask, with regard to the principles, do they then apply to further education and universities?

Well, of course, when we are discussing these challenges, we are doing that with our colleagues in both the school sector but also our colleagues in the FE sector, and we're in close contact with colleagues in higher education to share thinking on these matters.

But these principles don't apply in those circumstances; these are principles for schools only.


And could I just ask, with regard to the principles, do they then apply to further education and universities?

Well, of course, when we are discussing these challenges, we are doing that with our colleagues in both the school sector but also our colleagues in the FE sector, and we're in close contact with colleagues in higher education to share thinking on these matters.

But these principles don't apply in those circumstances; these are principles for schools only.

These principles are applying to both, and our work in this area is applying to both schools and FE colleges. Clearly, universities, as independent institutions, we wouldn't be able to dictate to. But I want to be absolutely clear: we are working with representatives of the HE sector to include them in this work. And I have received, not assurances, but from discussions that I've had with Universities Wales and vice-chancellors, they are very keen to be kept apprised of these approaches, because they may well wish to implement something similar within their own institutions.


Well, of course, when we are discussing these challenges, we are doing that with our colleagues in both the school sector but also our colleagues in the FE sector, and we're in close contact with colleagues in higher education to share thinking on these matters.

But these principles don't apply in those circumstances; these are principles for schools only.

These principles are applying to both, and our work in this area is applying to both schools and FE colleges. Clearly, universities, as independent institutions, we wouldn't be able to dictate to. But I want to be absolutely clear: we are working with representatives of the HE sector to include them in this work. And I have received, not assurances, but from discussions that I've had with Universities Wales and vice-chancellors, they are very keen to be kept apprised of these approaches, because they may well wish to implement something similar within their own institutions.

Okay. I've got a couple of supplementaries now; firstly, from Suzy Davies, and then I'm going to go to Siân Gwenllian. Suzy. No, we can't hear Suzy. Suzy? No. I'll go to Siân, then, and then I'll come back to Suzy. Siân.


But these principles don't apply in those circumstances; these are principles for schools only.

These principles are applying to both, and our work in this area is applying to both schools and FE colleges. Clearly, universities, as independent institutions, we wouldn't be able to dictate to. But I want to be absolutely clear: we are working with representatives of the HE sector to include them in this work. And I have received, not assurances, but from discussions that I've had with Universities Wales and vice-chancellors, they are very keen to be kept apprised of these approaches, because they may well wish to implement something similar within their own institutions.

Okay. I've got a couple of supplementaries now; firstly, from Suzy Davies, and then I'm going to go to Siân Gwenllian. Suzy. No, we can't hear Suzy. Suzy? No. I'll go to Siân, then, and then I'll come back to Suzy. Siân.

Chair, I don't think my microphone is muted.


These principles are applying to both, and our work in this area is applying to both schools and FE colleges. Clearly, universities, as independent institutions, we wouldn't be able to dictate to. But I want to be absolutely clear: we are working with representatives of the HE sector to include them in this work. And I have received, not assurances, but from discussions that I've had with Universities Wales and vice-chancellors, they are very keen to be kept apprised of these approaches, because they may well wish to implement something similar within their own institutions.

Okay. I've got a couple of supplementaries now; firstly, from Suzy Davies, and then I'm going to go to Siân Gwenllian. Suzy. No, we can't hear Suzy. Suzy? No. I'll go to Siân, then, and then I'll come back to Suzy. Siân.

Chair, I don't think my microphone is muted.

Okay. I'll move on to my question to Kirsty Williams. Now, it is clear that any decisions that need to be taken on reopening schools would have to be made in the context of all of the other issues that the Welsh Government has to take into account. And it is entirely clear that the approach of Government towards testing hasn't been sufficiently developed for us to even start to think about removing restrictions. So, wouldn't it be dangerous, if truth be told, to start to discuss reopening schools when we haven't had the necessary testing in place for the majority of the population? And doesn't it convey a mixed message that we're starting to relax some of these restrictions when, in reality, the restrictions are still in place and still need to be in place robustly?


Okay. I've got a couple of supplementaries now; firstly, from Suzy Davies, and then I'm going to go to Siân Gwenllian. Suzy. No, we can't hear Suzy. Suzy? No. I'll go to Siân, then, and then I'll come back to Suzy. Siân.

Chair, I don't think my microphone is muted.

Okay. I'll move on to my question to Kirsty Williams. Now, it is clear that any decisions that need to be taken on reopening schools would have to be made in the context of all of the other issues that the Welsh Government has to take into account. And it is entirely clear that the approach of Government towards testing hasn't been sufficiently developed for us to even start to think about removing restrictions. So, wouldn't it be dangerous, if truth be told, to start to discuss reopening schools when we haven't had the necessary testing in place for the majority of the population? And doesn't it convey a mixed message that we're starting to relax some of these restrictions when, in reality, the restrictions are still in place and still need to be in place robustly?

First of all, thank you very much, Siân, for that important question. Can I be absolutely clear, and I thought I had been pretty clear in answering Hefin David, that we are not relaxing any of the restrictions with regard to education? As I said to Hefin, it is not imminent that we would see a further phase in the next stage of education here in Wales. What I have done today is to provide clarity on the nature of the principles that I would use when coming to any discussion. It is the responsibility of me, as the Minister, and indeed of the wider Government, to begin to think about planning for the future. But I have been absolutely clear: we are not moving to an imminent change in how education is operating at the moment. And I'm also very, very clear that should we be given the opportunity to see more children in our schools, I will only do that when it is safe for me to do so, when I've been advised by the CMO that I am able to do that, and we have given sufficient time and planning to the sector to respond. It is not going to be easy, and we will need to give them, as a sector, time to be able to address. But if I have not been clear enough, let me say it again: we are not relaxing any issues around schools at present, nor is that imminent.


Chair, I don't think my microphone is muted.

Okay. I'll move on to my question to Kirsty Williams. Now, it is clear that any decisions that need to be taken on reopening schools would have to be made in the context of all of the other issues that the Welsh Government has to take into account. And it is entirely clear that the approach of Government towards testing hasn't been sufficiently developed for us to even start to think about removing restrictions. So, wouldn't it be dangerous, if truth be told, to start to discuss reopening schools when we haven't had the necessary testing in place for the majority of the population? And doesn't it convey a mixed message that we're starting to relax some of these restrictions when, in reality, the restrictions are still in place and still need to be in place robustly?

First of all, thank you very much, Siân, for that important question. Can I be absolutely clear, and I thought I had been pretty clear in answering Hefin David, that we are not relaxing any of the restrictions with regard to education? As I said to Hefin, it is not imminent that we would see a further phase in the next stage of education here in Wales. What I have done today is to provide clarity on the nature of the principles that I would use when coming to any discussion. It is the responsibility of me, as the Minister, and indeed of the wider Government, to begin to think about planning for the future. But I have been absolutely clear: we are not moving to an imminent change in how education is operating at the moment. And I'm also very, very clear that should we be given the opportunity to see more children in our schools, I will only do that when it is safe for me to do so, when I've been advised by the CMO that I am able to do that, and we have given sufficient time and planning to the sector to respond. It is not going to be easy, and we will need to give them, as a sector, time to be able to address. But if I have not been clear enough, let me say it again: we are not relaxing any issues around schools at present, nor is that imminent.

Thank you. Suzy, I think we can try going to you again now.


Okay. I'll move on to my question to Kirsty Williams. Now, it is clear that any decisions that need to be taken on reopening schools would have to be made in the context of all of the other issues that the Welsh Government has to take into account. And it is entirely clear that the approach of Government towards testing hasn't been sufficiently developed for us to even start to think about removing restrictions. So, wouldn't it be dangerous, if truth be told, to start to discuss reopening schools when we haven't had the necessary testing in place for the majority of the population? And doesn't it convey a mixed message that we're starting to relax some of these restrictions when, in reality, the restrictions are still in place and still need to be in place robustly?

First of all, thank you very much, Siân, for that important question. Can I be absolutely clear, and I thought I had been pretty clear in answering Hefin David, that we are not relaxing any of the restrictions with regard to education? As I said to Hefin, it is not imminent that we would see a further phase in the next stage of education here in Wales. What I have done today is to provide clarity on the nature of the principles that I would use when coming to any discussion. It is the responsibility of me, as the Minister, and indeed of the wider Government, to begin to think about planning for the future. But I have been absolutely clear: we are not moving to an imminent change in how education is operating at the moment. And I'm also very, very clear that should we be given the opportunity to see more children in our schools, I will only do that when it is safe for me to do so, when I've been advised by the CMO that I am able to do that, and we have given sufficient time and planning to the sector to respond. It is not going to be easy, and we will need to give them, as a sector, time to be able to address. But if I have not been clear enough, let me say it again: we are not relaxing any issues around schools at present, nor is that imminent.

Thank you. Suzy, I think we can try going to you again now.

Thank you. Minister, in your consideration of introducing a phased return to school, in due course, have you taken into consideration how things like school absences are going to be managed? Because, regardless of the amount of good work you do on messaging, there will still be some families that don't realise that going back to school is for their particular family. Will there be a relaxation of, effectively, what we would call truancy rules? Or is that something that schools will be getting guidance on much up-front?


First of all, thank you very much, Siân, for that important question. Can I be absolutely clear, and I thought I had been pretty clear in answering Hefin David, that we are not relaxing any of the restrictions with regard to education? As I said to Hefin, it is not imminent that we would see a further phase in the next stage of education here in Wales. What I have done today is to provide clarity on the nature of the principles that I would use when coming to any discussion. It is the responsibility of me, as the Minister, and indeed of the wider Government, to begin to think about planning for the future. But I have been absolutely clear: we are not moving to an imminent change in how education is operating at the moment. And I'm also very, very clear that should we be given the opportunity to see more children in our schools, I will only do that when it is safe for me to do so, when I've been advised by the CMO that I am able to do that, and we have given sufficient time and planning to the sector to respond. It is not going to be easy, and we will need to give them, as a sector, time to be able to address. But if I have not been clear enough, let me say it again: we are not relaxing any issues around schools at present, nor is that imminent.

Thank you. Suzy, I think we can try going to you again now.

Thank you. Minister, in your consideration of introducing a phased return to school, in due course, have you taken into consideration how things like school absences are going to be managed? Because, regardless of the amount of good work you do on messaging, there will still be some families that don't realise that going back to school is for their particular family. Will there be a relaxation of, effectively, what we would call truancy rules? Or is that something that schools will be getting guidance on much up-front?

Thank you, Suzy. As I said in my statement earlier today, returning to school will not be a return to normal, and in recognition of this, I've already made it clear that I will seek, in all opportunities, to reduce the burdens on school. That includes various data collection, the suspension of performance measures and removing the requirement to undertake literacy and numeracy testing, and, clearly, school attendance will want to be an important factor of that.


Thank you. Suzy, I think we can try going to you again now.

Thank you. Minister, in your consideration of introducing a phased return to school, in due course, have you taken into consideration how things like school absences are going to be managed? Because, regardless of the amount of good work you do on messaging, there will still be some families that don't realise that going back to school is for their particular family. Will there be a relaxation of, effectively, what we would call truancy rules? Or is that something that schools will be getting guidance on much up-front?

Thank you, Suzy. As I said in my statement earlier today, returning to school will not be a return to normal, and in recognition of this, I've already made it clear that I will seek, in all opportunities, to reduce the burdens on school. That includes various data collection, the suspension of performance measures and removing the requirement to undertake literacy and numeracy testing, and, clearly, school attendance will want to be an important factor of that.

Okay. Thank you. I'm keen to go on now to talk about the current situation as being faced by our children and young people in schools with some questions from Siân Gwenllian. Siân.


Thank you. Minister, in your consideration of introducing a phased return to school, in due course, have you taken into consideration how things like school absences are going to be managed? Because, regardless of the amount of good work you do on messaging, there will still be some families that don't realise that going back to school is for their particular family. Will there be a relaxation of, effectively, what we would call truancy rules? Or is that something that schools will be getting guidance on much up-front?

Thank you, Suzy. As I said in my statement earlier today, returning to school will not be a return to normal, and in recognition of this, I've already made it clear that I will seek, in all opportunities, to reduce the burdens on school. That includes various data collection, the suspension of performance measures and removing the requirement to undertake literacy and numeracy testing, and, clearly, school attendance will want to be an important factor of that.

Okay. Thank you. I'm keen to go on now to talk about the current situation as being faced by our children and young people in schools with some questions from Siân Gwenllian. Siân.

Since yesterday, the Welsh Government has started publishing data on the number of schools that are open, the number of children attending those schools, and the number of staff involved, and they have been making this information available as per capita of the population. On average, I think it's 1 per cent of the children of Wales that actually attend these locations, and some 5 per cent of the staff. So, can you analyse those figures a little further? Can you tell us how many children, according to this data, are children of key workers, and how many are vulnerable children?


Thank you, Suzy. As I said in my statement earlier today, returning to school will not be a return to normal, and in recognition of this, I've already made it clear that I will seek, in all opportunities, to reduce the burdens on school. That includes various data collection, the suspension of performance measures and removing the requirement to undertake literacy and numeracy testing, and, clearly, school attendance will want to be an important factor of that.

Okay. Thank you. I'm keen to go on now to talk about the current situation as being faced by our children and young people in schools with some questions from Siân Gwenllian. Siân.

Since yesterday, the Welsh Government has started publishing data on the number of schools that are open, the number of children attending those schools, and the number of staff involved, and they have been making this information available as per capita of the population. On average, I think it's 1 per cent of the children of Wales that actually attend these locations, and some 5 per cent of the staff. So, can you analyse those figures a little further? Can you tell us how many children, according to this data, are children of key workers, and how many are vulnerable children?

Thank you very much, Siân. As you quite rightly say, on average, we have 518 school hubs open each day, with up to 4,200 children attending. We have seen an increase in the number of attendances since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term. We have approximately 5.6 per cent of the teaching population working in those hubs, and at present, 85 per cent of the children who are attending are the children of key workers, the remainder being vulnerable children. So, we are now averaging 600 vulnerable children per day. These are small numbers, but we have seen an increase in those numbers since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term.


Okay. Thank you. I'm keen to go on now to talk about the current situation as being faced by our children and young people in schools with some questions from Siân Gwenllian. Siân.

Since yesterday, the Welsh Government has started publishing data on the number of schools that are open, the number of children attending those schools, and the number of staff involved, and they have been making this information available as per capita of the population. On average, I think it's 1 per cent of the children of Wales that actually attend these locations, and some 5 per cent of the staff. So, can you analyse those figures a little further? Can you tell us how many children, according to this data, are children of key workers, and how many are vulnerable children?

Thank you very much, Siân. As you quite rightly say, on average, we have 518 school hubs open each day, with up to 4,200 children attending. We have seen an increase in the number of attendances since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term. We have approximately 5.6 per cent of the teaching population working in those hubs, and at present, 85 per cent of the children who are attending are the children of key workers, the remainder being vulnerable children. So, we are now averaging 600 vulnerable children per day. These are small numbers, but we have seen an increase in those numbers since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term.

Okay. I'm sure we'll return to that point a little later on. How much confidence do you therefore have that the arrangements are effective in terms of the safety of staff and children at these locations?


Since yesterday, the Welsh Government has started publishing data on the number of schools that are open, the number of children attending those schools, and the number of staff involved, and they have been making this information available as per capita of the population. On average, I think it's 1 per cent of the children of Wales that actually attend these locations, and some 5 per cent of the staff. So, can you analyse those figures a little further? Can you tell us how many children, according to this data, are children of key workers, and how many are vulnerable children?

Thank you very much, Siân. As you quite rightly say, on average, we have 518 school hubs open each day, with up to 4,200 children attending. We have seen an increase in the number of attendances since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term. We have approximately 5.6 per cent of the teaching population working in those hubs, and at present, 85 per cent of the children who are attending are the children of key workers, the remainder being vulnerable children. So, we are now averaging 600 vulnerable children per day. These are small numbers, but we have seen an increase in those numbers since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term.

Okay. I'm sure we'll return to that point a little later on. How much confidence do you therefore have that the arrangements are effective in terms of the safety of staff and children at these locations?

Thank you once again for that. The smooth operation of the hubs, with regard to health and safety, is, of course, of paramount importance. What we have seen since schools closed for traditional statutory purposes and moving to their repurposed function—we have seen a change of pattern over time. So, following my announcement on, I believe, 18 March, the week after, we saw a large number of settings open and operating. As local authorities have been able to understand the demand for those places—from critical workers and vulnerable children—we have seen more local authorities move to a hub model, and we have been able to publish guidance to local authorities on how issues around safe working in those hubs should be followed, and we've been able to give guidance in that regard. Local authorities are asked by us to report any incidents where they are concerned about operation issues on the ground.