Well, yes, I was going to ask you. Conversely, of course, there's a different experience there.

Yes, there is a contrast. And we do have concerns about work-based learning. And, again, those concerns tend to sit mainly with the leadership. As we said in the annual report, standards are 'good' or 'better' in only 50 per cent of work-based learning companies, mainly because the completion rates of learners are not what we'd expect, the progression that learners make isn't what we'd expect. And that is mainly due to the way in which the leadership teams monitor progress—monitor progress in themselves as a provider, but, more importantly, the way they manage sub-contractors, because, as you will already know, there's 19 lead providers; there's about 100 training providers. And the companies that are doing better, or the training providers doing better, are those that have got a firm grip on their sub-contractors, and, most importantly, they put quality as the top part of any agenda at any meeting. And, of course, if you're challenging your sub-contractors about quality, that will impact on standards of teaching, and, hopefully, ultimately, on standards of performance on the learners. And I think, to go back to your original question, Llyr, the sort of leadership models that FE colleges have, I think some of the work-based learning providers would be wise to start to emulate those. It's beginning to happen, because FE is getting more engaged in the work-based learning world, so I think some of those behaviours will start to rub off on the companies.

So, who would you look to drive some of those changes through then? Is it the sector themselves,  or to what extent can Government and others do things?

Well, as you know, Meilyr alluded to the changes across all sectors. We've got PCET—we've got the post-compulsory education and training reforms under way. The Welsh Government is looking at the implementation of Hazelkorn's recommendations. So, ultimately, that will start to drive the sectors closer together in post-16. But I think, in the shorter term, some of the work that groups like Colegau Cymru and the National Training Federation Wales are doing, sharing best practice, bringing the colleges and the training companies together, is beginning to help. I'm going to the national training federation conference tomorrow in Cardiff, and I notice the attendance there—there's a lot of FE colleges attending, senior staff of FE colleges, as well as from the work-based training companies. So, that sort of osmosis of good practice is beginning to happen quite naturally.


Yes, there is a contrast. And we do have concerns about work-based learning. And, again, those concerns tend to sit mainly with the leadership. As we said in the annual report, standards are 'good' or 'better' in only 50 per cent of work-based learning companies, mainly because the completion rates of learners are not what we'd expect, the progression that learners make isn't what we'd expect. And that is mainly due to the way in which the leadership teams monitor progress—monitor progress in themselves as a provider, but, more importantly, the way they manage sub-contractors, because, as you will already know, there's 19 lead providers; there's about 100 training providers. And the companies that are doing better, or the training providers doing better, are those that have got a firm grip on their sub-contractors, and, most importantly, they put quality as the top part of any agenda at any meeting. And, of course, if you're challenging your sub-contractors about quality, that will impact on standards of teaching, and, hopefully, ultimately, on standards of performance on the learners. And I think, to go back to your original question, Llyr, the sort of leadership models that FE colleges have, I think some of the work-based learning providers would be wise to start to emulate those. It's beginning to happen, because FE is getting more engaged in the work-based learning world, so I think some of those behaviours will start to rub off on the companies.

So, who would you look to drive some of those changes through then? Is it the sector themselves,  or to what extent can Government and others do things?

Well, as you know, Meilyr alluded to the changes across all sectors. We've got PCET—we've got the post-compulsory education and training reforms under way. The Welsh Government is looking at the implementation of Hazelkorn's recommendations. So, ultimately, that will start to drive the sectors closer together in post-16. But I think, in the shorter term, some of the work that groups like Colegau Cymru and the National Training Federation Wales are doing, sharing best practice, bringing the colleges and the training companies together, is beginning to help. I'm going to the national training federation conference tomorrow in Cardiff, and I notice the attendance there—there's a lot of FE colleges attending, senior staff of FE colleges, as well as from the work-based training companies. So, that sort of osmosis of good practice is beginning to happen quite naturally.

Okay, Llyr? We haven't got very long left, but we've got five minutes or so for some further questions from Hefin David.


So, who would you look to drive some of those changes through then? Is it the sector themselves,  or to what extent can Government and others do things?

Well, as you know, Meilyr alluded to the changes across all sectors. We've got PCET—we've got the post-compulsory education and training reforms under way. The Welsh Government is looking at the implementation of Hazelkorn's recommendations. So, ultimately, that will start to drive the sectors closer together in post-16. But I think, in the shorter term, some of the work that groups like Colegau Cymru and the National Training Federation Wales are doing, sharing best practice, bringing the colleges and the training companies together, is beginning to help. I'm going to the national training federation conference tomorrow in Cardiff, and I notice the attendance there—there's a lot of FE colleges attending, senior staff of FE colleges, as well as from the work-based training companies. So, that sort of osmosis of good practice is beginning to happen quite naturally.

Okay, Llyr? We haven't got very long left, but we've got five minutes or so for some further questions from Hefin David.

With regard to local authorities, you found shortcomings in your 2010-14 inspection in 15 of the 22. And one of the things that struck me in the report was where you said that you found ineffective processes for self-evaluating improvement within those authorities, but you've also said that there's been a high turnover of directors and new directors in place in many of them. Has that had a positive effect on that self-evaluation process?


Well, as you know, Meilyr alluded to the changes across all sectors. We've got PCET—we've got the post-compulsory education and training reforms under way. The Welsh Government is looking at the implementation of Hazelkorn's recommendations. So, ultimately, that will start to drive the sectors closer together in post-16. But I think, in the shorter term, some of the work that groups like Colegau Cymru and the National Training Federation Wales are doing, sharing best practice, bringing the colleges and the training companies together, is beginning to help. I'm going to the national training federation conference tomorrow in Cardiff, and I notice the attendance there—there's a lot of FE colleges attending, senior staff of FE colleges, as well as from the work-based training companies. So, that sort of osmosis of good practice is beginning to happen quite naturally.

Okay, Llyr? We haven't got very long left, but we've got five minutes or so for some further questions from Hefin David.

With regard to local authorities, you found shortcomings in your 2010-14 inspection in 15 of the 22. And one of the things that struck me in the report was where you said that you found ineffective processes for self-evaluating improvement within those authorities, but you've also said that there's been a high turnover of directors and new directors in place in many of them. Has that had a positive effect on that self-evaluation process?

As you're aware, over the past three years, out of the 22 authorities, there have been 40 new directors, over the past three years. Those directors have got a range of experience. Some of those directors are very experienced. Other ones have come from headteachership fairly recently. So, that's one factor. I think the other factor is that the status of education directors has changed quite significantly. Some local authorities are a member of the corporate team and they are directors of education and children's services, so they've got very broad portfolios. In other ones, they're being treated more like heads of service, so heads of department level.


Okay, Llyr? We haven't got very long left, but we've got five minutes or so for some further questions from Hefin David.

With regard to local authorities, you found shortcomings in your 2010-14 inspection in 15 of the 22. And one of the things that struck me in the report was where you said that you found ineffective processes for self-evaluating improvement within those authorities, but you've also said that there's been a high turnover of directors and new directors in place in many of them. Has that had a positive effect on that self-evaluation process?

As you're aware, over the past three years, out of the 22 authorities, there have been 40 new directors, over the past three years. Those directors have got a range of experience. Some of those directors are very experienced. Other ones have come from headteachership fairly recently. So, that's one factor. I think the other factor is that the status of education directors has changed quite significantly. Some local authorities are a member of the corporate team and they are directors of education and children's services, so they've got very broad portfolios. In other ones, they're being treated more like heads of service, so heads of department level.

I know that Caerphilly went in the opposite direction—from having a chief education officer to then appointing a director, I think.


With regard to local authorities, you found shortcomings in your 2010-14 inspection in 15 of the 22. And one of the things that struck me in the report was where you said that you found ineffective processes for self-evaluating improvement within those authorities, but you've also said that there's been a high turnover of directors and new directors in place in many of them. Has that had a positive effect on that self-evaluation process?

As you're aware, over the past three years, out of the 22 authorities, there have been 40 new directors, over the past three years. Those directors have got a range of experience. Some of those directors are very experienced. Other ones have come from headteachership fairly recently. So, that's one factor. I think the other factor is that the status of education directors has changed quite significantly. Some local authorities are a member of the corporate team and they are directors of education and children's services, so they've got very broad portfolios. In other ones, they're being treated more like heads of service, so heads of department level.

I know that Caerphilly went in the opposite direction—from having a chief education officer to then appointing a director, I think.


As you're aware, over the past three years, out of the 22 authorities, there have been 40 new directors, over the past three years. Those directors have got a range of experience. Some of those directors are very experienced. Other ones have come from headteachership fairly recently. So, that's one factor. I think the other factor is that the status of education directors has changed quite significantly. Some local authorities are a member of the corporate team and they are directors of education and children's services, so they've got very broad portfolios. In other ones, they're being treated more like heads of service, so heads of department level.

I know that Caerphilly went in the opposite direction—from having a chief education officer to then appointing a director, I think.

In Caerphilly county borough, they went from having a chief education officer and now have got a director again. But, in many cases, they're the same people, aren't they? It's just that their roles are changed.


I know that Caerphilly went in the opposite direction—from having a chief education officer to then appointing a director, I think.

In Caerphilly county borough, they went from having a chief education officer and now have got a director again. But, in many cases, they're the same people, aren't they? It's just that their roles are changed.

Yes, it's the changes as the corporate structure of councils shift and change. I think the other thing that's happened, of course, with the role of the director of education, is, because of the regional consortia now doing the school improvement function, a large chunk of that role has now moved to the consortia. So, I think it's early days to say what the impact of that new cohort of directors will be, but, of course, we're starting a new inspection cycle in September. We don't do pilots. We looked at Neath Port Talbot in December; we looked at Denbighshire in February. Those reports are not yet published, but what I can say is that neither of those authorities are in follow-up.


In Caerphilly county borough, they went from having a chief education officer and now have got a director again. But, in many cases, they're the same people, aren't they? It's just that their roles are changed.

Yes, it's the changes as the corporate structure of councils shift and change. I think the other thing that's happened, of course, with the role of the director of education, is, because of the regional consortia now doing the school improvement function, a large chunk of that role has now moved to the consortia. So, I think it's early days to say what the impact of that new cohort of directors will be, but, of course, we're starting a new inspection cycle in September. We don't do pilots. We looked at Neath Port Talbot in December; we looked at Denbighshire in February. Those reports are not yet published, but what I can say is that neither of those authorities are in follow-up.

But you said, even though it's not in follow-up, it was still showing signs of not being able to reflect effectively on improvement—in the report.


Yes, it's the changes as the corporate structure of councils shift and change. I think the other thing that's happened, of course, with the role of the director of education, is, because of the regional consortia now doing the school improvement function, a large chunk of that role has now moved to the consortia. So, I think it's early days to say what the impact of that new cohort of directors will be, but, of course, we're starting a new inspection cycle in September. We don't do pilots. We looked at Neath Port Talbot in December; we looked at Denbighshire in February. Those reports are not yet published, but what I can say is that neither of those authorities are in follow-up.

But you said, even though it's not in follow-up, it was still showing signs of not being able to reflect effectively on improvement—in the report.

Right, okay, but some of those not in follow-up were not reflecting effectively on their improvement—is the statement that was made in the report.


But you said, even though it's not in follow-up, it was still showing signs of not being able to reflect effectively on improvement—in the report.

Right, okay, but some of those not in follow-up were not reflecting effectively on their improvement—is the statement that was made in the report.

What we're seeing, and we've seen this before in the previous cycle, is that the performance of some authorities is patchy. There are authorities that we have concerns about. Those are the authorities—. I think I said to committee last year those authorities are ones that we held improvement conferences in last year. That was to get the senior leadership—both political and officer-led leadership—and the consortia and Welsh Government and the Wales Audit Office and, as it was, the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales, around the table to get those senior leadership teams to actually identify what the longer-term issues are, to surface those issues and to put together an action plan. We're revisiting those three authorities very, very shortly. The first of the revisits is in April to see what progress they've made over the past 12 months or so.


Right, okay, but some of those not in follow-up were not reflecting effectively on their improvement—is the statement that was made in the report.

What we're seeing, and we've seen this before in the previous cycle, is that the performance of some authorities is patchy. There are authorities that we have concerns about. Those are the authorities—. I think I said to committee last year those authorities are ones that we held improvement conferences in last year. That was to get the senior leadership—both political and officer-led leadership—and the consortia and Welsh Government and the Wales Audit Office and, as it was, the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales, around the table to get those senior leadership teams to actually identify what the longer-term issues are, to surface those issues and to put together an action plan. We're revisiting those three authorities very, very shortly. The first of the revisits is in April to see what progress they've made over the past 12 months or so.

Okay. And, with things like the curriculum reforms, you've identified the new directors in place, but you've said that, although they're new directors, they're actually very experienced in education, so therefore you're confident that they're going to manage the reforms well as they are developed in the next few years.


Right, okay, but some of those not in follow-up were not reflecting effectively on their improvement—is the statement that was made in the report.

What we're seeing, and we've seen this before in the previous cycle, is that the performance of some authorities is patchy. There are authorities that we have concerns about. Those are the authorities—. I think I said to committee last year those authorities are ones that we held improvement conferences in last year. That was to get the senior leadership—both political and officer-led leadership—and the consortia and Welsh Government and the Wales Audit Office and, as it was, the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales, around the table to get those senior leadership teams to actually identify what the longer-term issues are, to surface those issues and to put together an action plan. We're revisiting those three authorities very, very shortly. The first of the revisits is in April to see what progress they've made over the past 12 months or so.

Okay. And, with things like the curriculum reforms, you've identified the new directors in place, but you've said that, although they're new directors, they're actually very experienced in education, so therefore you're confident that they're going to manage the reforms well as they are developed in the next few years.

I think one development, and I've raised this in committee before, was—. One of our concerns, apart from the fact that there was a large turnover of directors, was what sort of level of training senior leaders and middle managers were getting in those authorities. One of the things that I'm quite pleased to report is that the Association of Directors of Education in Wales and Welsh Government have stepped up to address that issue. Last year, all serving directors attended residential courses run by the Staff College Wales, facilitated by ADEW, and ADEW have just finished the first round of director—. The name of the course is the 'Welsh future leaders in education' course and 26 people have just finished that—aspiring directors. They're preparing for another cohort in September. That course, again, is developed by the Staff College Wales, but it has a lot of external input. They're putting in directors and chief executives from Scotland, they're putting in headteachers of very successful schools in England, who've got current grass-roots experience to share with these aspiring directors. So, I think the concerns that we had previously about the professional learning for middle managers and leaders in local authorities are being addressed. The proof will be in the pudding when we start to do the inspection cycle, but at least the issue now is being tackled.


What we're seeing, and we've seen this before in the previous cycle, is that the performance of some authorities is patchy. There are authorities that we have concerns about. Those are the authorities—. I think I said to committee last year those authorities are ones that we held improvement conferences in last year. That was to get the senior leadership—both political and officer-led leadership—and the consortia and Welsh Government and the Wales Audit Office and, as it was, the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales, around the table to get those senior leadership teams to actually identify what the longer-term issues are, to surface those issues and to put together an action plan. We're revisiting those three authorities very, very shortly. The first of the revisits is in April to see what progress they've made over the past 12 months or so.

Okay. And, with things like the curriculum reforms, you've identified the new directors in place, but you've said that, although they're new directors, they're actually very experienced in education, so therefore you're confident that they're going to manage the reforms well as they are developed in the next few years.

I think one development, and I've raised this in committee before, was—. One of our concerns, apart from the fact that there was a large turnover of directors, was what sort of level of training senior leaders and middle managers were getting in those authorities. One of the things that I'm quite pleased to report is that the Association of Directors of Education in Wales and Welsh Government have stepped up to address that issue. Last year, all serving directors attended residential courses run by the Staff College Wales, facilitated by ADEW, and ADEW have just finished the first round of director—. The name of the course is the 'Welsh future leaders in education' course and 26 people have just finished that—aspiring directors. They're preparing for another cohort in September. That course, again, is developed by the Staff College Wales, but it has a lot of external input. They're putting in directors and chief executives from Scotland, they're putting in headteachers of very successful schools in England, who've got current grass-roots experience to share with these aspiring directors. So, I think the concerns that we had previously about the professional learning for middle managers and leaders in local authorities are being addressed. The proof will be in the pudding when we start to do the inspection cycle, but at least the issue now is being tackled.

Can I just look at, then, consortia? One of the criticisms in the report was that national policy wasn't being put in context—I think that was the statement in the report—in certain consortia. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?


Okay. And, with things like the curriculum reforms, you've identified the new directors in place, but you've said that, although they're new directors, they're actually very experienced in education, so therefore you're confident that they're going to manage the reforms well as they are developed in the next few years.

I think one development, and I've raised this in committee before, was—. One of our concerns, apart from the fact that there was a large turnover of directors, was what sort of level of training senior leaders and middle managers were getting in those authorities. One of the things that I'm quite pleased to report is that the Association of Directors of Education in Wales and Welsh Government have stepped up to address that issue. Last year, all serving directors attended residential courses run by the Staff College Wales, facilitated by ADEW, and ADEW have just finished the first round of director—. The name of the course is the 'Welsh future leaders in education' course and 26 people have just finished that—aspiring directors. They're preparing for another cohort in September. That course, again, is developed by the Staff College Wales, but it has a lot of external input. They're putting in directors and chief executives from Scotland, they're putting in headteachers of very successful schools in England, who've got current grass-roots experience to share with these aspiring directors. So, I think the concerns that we had previously about the professional learning for middle managers and leaders in local authorities are being addressed. The proof will be in the pudding when we start to do the inspection cycle, but at least the issue now is being tackled.

Can I just look at, then, consortia? One of the criticisms in the report was that national policy wasn't being put in context—I think that was the statement in the report—in certain consortia. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?

Yes, when we talked, we said that—. Well, two things are at play. One is that the national model for regional working is being revised at the moment, and that work is ongoing by Welsh Government. That is to bring greater consistency to the four consortia, because one of our concerns, which we expressed in this report and we expressed in previous years, is that, although the national model had a particular approach back in 2012, when Robert Hill did the first review, it had a particular approach to the consortia being fairly similar, over the years, they've gone in four different directions. To be fair, over the past couple of years, the consortia are now collaborating much closer together. They are working together—for example, I mentioned earlier about the regional co-ordinators for LAC. Those four people are meeting regularly. So, they've all got different co-ordination roles in their regions. Whereas before they were working more in silos, they are now working much closer together. So, I think what we were referring to, and what we were talking about in the report, is the fact that the consortia need to have a more consistent approach across all four regions. But that will certainly be driven by the new national model.


I think one development, and I've raised this in committee before, was—. One of our concerns, apart from the fact that there was a large turnover of directors, was what sort of level of training senior leaders and middle managers were getting in those authorities. One of the things that I'm quite pleased to report is that the Association of Directors of Education in Wales and Welsh Government have stepped up to address that issue. Last year, all serving directors attended residential courses run by the Staff College Wales, facilitated by ADEW, and ADEW have just finished the first round of director—. The name of the course is the 'Welsh future leaders in education' course and 26 people have just finished that—aspiring directors. They're preparing for another cohort in September. That course, again, is developed by the Staff College Wales, but it has a lot of external input. They're putting in directors and chief executives from Scotland, they're putting in headteachers of very successful schools in England, who've got current grass-roots experience to share with these aspiring directors. So, I think the concerns that we had previously about the professional learning for middle managers and leaders in local authorities are being addressed. The proof will be in the pudding when we start to do the inspection cycle, but at least the issue now is being tackled.

Can I just look at, then, consortia? One of the criticisms in the report was that national policy wasn't being put in context—I think that was the statement in the report—in certain consortia. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?

Yes, when we talked, we said that—. Well, two things are at play. One is that the national model for regional working is being revised at the moment, and that work is ongoing by Welsh Government. That is to bring greater consistency to the four consortia, because one of our concerns, which we expressed in this report and we expressed in previous years, is that, although the national model had a particular approach back in 2012, when Robert Hill did the first review, it had a particular approach to the consortia being fairly similar, over the years, they've gone in four different directions. To be fair, over the past couple of years, the consortia are now collaborating much closer together. They are working together—for example, I mentioned earlier about the regional co-ordinators for LAC. Those four people are meeting regularly. So, they've all got different co-ordination roles in their regions. Whereas before they were working more in silos, they are now working much closer together. So, I think what we were referring to, and what we were talking about in the report, is the fact that the consortia need to have a more consistent approach across all four regions. But that will certainly be driven by the new national model.

Okay. And the relationships with local authorities, you said that the sharing of information with the local authorities is not always acted upon by local authorities—from the consortia. Is that a failure of communication, or is that something that sits with the local authority to acknowledge?


Can I just look at, then, consortia? One of the criticisms in the report was that national policy wasn't being put in context—I think that was the statement in the report—in certain consortia. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?

Yes, when we talked, we said that—. Well, two things are at play. One is that the national model for regional working is being revised at the moment, and that work is ongoing by Welsh Government. That is to bring greater consistency to the four consortia, because one of our concerns, which we expressed in this report and we expressed in previous years, is that, although the national model had a particular approach back in 2012, when Robert Hill did the first review, it had a particular approach to the consortia being fairly similar, over the years, they've gone in four different directions. To be fair, over the past couple of years, the consortia are now collaborating much closer together. They are working together—for example, I mentioned earlier about the regional co-ordinators for LAC. Those four people are meeting regularly. So, they've all got different co-ordination roles in their regions. Whereas before they were working more in silos, they are now working much closer together. So, I think what we were referring to, and what we were talking about in the report, is the fact that the consortia need to have a more consistent approach across all four regions. But that will certainly be driven by the new national model.

Okay. And the relationships with local authorities, you said that the sharing of information with the local authorities is not always acted upon by local authorities—from the consortia. Is that a failure of communication, or is that something that sits with the local authority to acknowledge?

I don't think it's a failure of communication. In the cases where some authorities haven't acted sufficiently in intervening in schools or in issuing warning letters, the consortia have been quite clear. The challenge advisers have highlighted these issues. It's the authority that hasn't acted as swiftly as we would expect it to. But, again, I think that is beginning to improve, because the local authorities are quite sensitive to the fact we are now going to be re-inspecting them and looking at them, and that is one of the issues we'll be picking up on.


Yes, when we talked, we said that—. Well, two things are at play. One is that the national model for regional working is being revised at the moment, and that work is ongoing by Welsh Government. That is to bring greater consistency to the four consortia, because one of our concerns, which we expressed in this report and we expressed in previous years, is that, although the national model had a particular approach back in 2012, when Robert Hill did the first review, it had a particular approach to the consortia being fairly similar, over the years, they've gone in four different directions. To be fair, over the past couple of years, the consortia are now collaborating much closer together. They are working together—for example, I mentioned earlier about the regional co-ordinators for LAC. Those four people are meeting regularly. So, they've all got different co-ordination roles in their regions. Whereas before they were working more in silos, they are now working much closer together. So, I think what we were referring to, and what we were talking about in the report, is the fact that the consortia need to have a more consistent approach across all four regions. But that will certainly be driven by the new national model.

Okay. And the relationships with local authorities, you said that the sharing of information with the local authorities is not always acted upon by local authorities—from the consortia. Is that a failure of communication, or is that something that sits with the local authority to acknowledge?

I don't think it's a failure of communication. In the cases where some authorities haven't acted sufficiently in intervening in schools or in issuing warning letters, the consortia have been quite clear. The challenge advisers have highlighted these issues. It's the authority that hasn't acted as swiftly as we would expect it to. But, again, I think that is beginning to improve, because the local authorities are quite sensitive to the fact we are now going to be re-inspecting them and looking at them, and that is one of the issues we'll be picking up on.

Okay. And, in order to do their jobs, the consortia need to be suitably resourced. Are they, and are they fit for the challenges ahead?


Okay. And the relationships with local authorities, you said that the sharing of information with the local authorities is not always acted upon by local authorities—from the consortia. Is that a failure of communication, or is that something that sits with the local authority to acknowledge?

I don't think it's a failure of communication. In the cases where some authorities haven't acted sufficiently in intervening in schools or in issuing warning letters, the consortia have been quite clear. The challenge advisers have highlighted these issues. It's the authority that hasn't acted as swiftly as we would expect it to. But, again, I think that is beginning to improve, because the local authorities are quite sensitive to the fact we are now going to be re-inspecting them and looking at them, and that is one of the issues we'll be picking up on.

Okay. And, in order to do their jobs, the consortia need to be suitably resourced. Are they, and are they fit for the challenges ahead?

It's not for us to comment on whether each consortium is sufficiently funded or not, but what we would say is that, generally, in the past, they've spent perhaps too large a proportion of their funds on challenge work and not enough funding on support work, but that, again, is moving. We've picked up that GwE, for example, is in the process of renaming their challenge advisers 'support advisers', because they're moving their culture more over to supporting schools to deal with all the raft of reforms that Meilyr mentioned, and that is, it seems to me, an entirely sensible way to go.


I don't think it's a failure of communication. In the cases where some authorities haven't acted sufficiently in intervening in schools or in issuing warning letters, the consortia have been quite clear. The challenge advisers have highlighted these issues. It's the authority that hasn't acted as swiftly as we would expect it to. But, again, I think that is beginning to improve, because the local authorities are quite sensitive to the fact we are now going to be re-inspecting them and looking at them, and that is one of the issues we'll be picking up on.

Okay. And, in order to do their jobs, the consortia need to be suitably resourced. Are they, and are they fit for the challenges ahead?

It's not for us to comment on whether each consortium is sufficiently funded or not, but what we would say is that, generally, in the past, they've spent perhaps too large a proportion of their funds on challenge work and not enough funding on support work, but that, again, is moving. We've picked up that GwE, for example, is in the process of renaming their challenge advisers 'support advisers', because they're moving their culture more over to supporting schools to deal with all the raft of reforms that Meilyr mentioned, and that is, it seems to me, an entirely sensible way to go.


Okay everybody is ready ?  Good morning again. So , today we are going to have a f second meeting. Oh Michael , hi.

You're late. You have a good reason for that ?


You're late. You have a good reason for that ?


You're late. You have a good reason for that ?

Very good .  Okay , let's have a look to the agenda today.  So , we are going to have a meeting about the functional design. Um so first before starting I w just going to uh to go quickly to  through the minutes of previous meeting. So uh  basically we we are not decided if w we should go for a universal or specific uh uh remote control , but I have new um new i inputs for  about that topics. I goin I'm going to share with you.  And uh basically we decided to um to uh go to individual actions for each of you uh so um Industrial Designer should wor was supposed to work on th on th on the working design. You showed us


Very good .  Okay , let's have a look to the agenda today.  So , we are going to have a meeting about the functional design. Um so first before starting I w just going to uh to go quickly to  through the minutes of previous meeting. So uh  basically we we are not decided if w we should go for a universal or specific uh uh remote control , but I have new um new i inputs for  about that topics. I goin I'm going to share with you.  And uh basically we decided to um to uh go to individual actions for each of you uh so um Industrial Designer should wor was supposed to work on th on th on the working design. You showed us

you ar you you prepare something for us ?


you ar you you prepare something for us ?

The U_I_ guy also uh work on that , yeah , and for the mar our Marketing Expert should deliver some specs.


The U_I_ guy also uh work on that , yeah , and for the mar our Marketing Expert should deliver some specs.

Alright  so  so we are going to go through three of your individual presentations. But first I would like quickly to uh to decide of  to give a name to the project. So , I just put d quickly Remo , but if you have any o other names that we co could decide for just to to keep something fun for our project we we should  we could discuss quickly. Any ideas ?


Alright  so  so we are going to go through three of your individual presentations. But first I would like quickly to uh to decide of  to give a name to the project. So , I just put d quickly Remo , but if you have any o other names that we co could decide for just to to keep something fun for our project we we should  we could discuss quickly. Any ideas ?


Especially if we're selling into the U_S_ market becasue there's a lot of Spanish speakers there. Maybe something that sounds cool in English but sounds funny in Spanish.


It doesn't it doesn't sound cool for me ,


Okay. 'Cause it also  like in English it sounds like you know the man's tool you know because you know men like to have control of the remote


So , let's go for Mando ? Yeah ? No objection ?


And we could have some like you d you could have the fonts you know special , so you have man in like in in uh in one o in one font and then the O_ as like


And we could have some like you d you could have the fonts you know special , so you have man in like in in uh in one o in one font and then the O_ as like

Although you don't wanna cut uh cut women out of the uh potential buyers though ,


Although you don't wanna cut uh cut women out of the uh potential buyers though ,


Although you don't wanna cut uh cut women out of the uh potential buyers though ,

Yeah they are the most T_V_ watcher. So we should be careful.


Yeah they are the most T_V_ watcher. So we should be careful.


Yeah they are the most T_V_ watcher. So we should be careful.

Okay , I think this is more a question of of


Okay , I think this is more a question of of


Okay , I think this is more a question of of

I I think this is more a question of of look and feel.


I I think this is more a question of of look and feel.


I I think this is more a question of of look and feel.

Something that should be addressed later We should we should go to other  for the other topics.


I I think this is more a question of of look and feel.

Something that should be addressed later We should we should go to other  for the other topics.

Yeah because if the product will be international


Something that should be addressed later We should we should go to other  for the other topics.

Yeah because if the product will be international

Well that's the thing. We need to know who we're selling it to before we can really decide on a


Something that should be addressed later We should we should go to other  for the other topics.

Yeah because if the product will be international

Well that's the thing. We need to know who we're selling it to before we can really decide on a

Yeah okay , so let's stick f to Man Mando for the name


Yeah because if the product will be international

Well that's the thing. We need to know who we're selling it to before we can really decide on a

Yeah okay , so let's stick f to Man Mando for the name


Well that's the thing. We need to know who we're selling it to before we can really decide on a

Yeah okay , so let's stick f to Man Mando for the name

and we'll see for the for the look and feel later. So let's go for the three presentations right now. So , who want to start ?


Yeah okay , so let's stick f to Man Mando for the name

and we'll see for the for the look and feel later. So let's go for the three presentations right now. So , who want to start ?

So maybe we could start with the market , yeah.


and we'll see for the for the look and feel later. So let's go for the three presentations right now. So , who want to start ?

So maybe we could start with the market , yeah.

Maybe maybe I should uh start. Yeah. Mm. Okay.


So maybe we could start with the market , yeah.

Maybe maybe I should uh start. Yeah. Mm. Okay.


Maybe maybe I should uh start. Yeah. Mm. Okay.


Okay so yeah I will I will give a brief outline about what I what I prepared for this meeting.


Okay so yeah I will I will give a brief outline about what I what I prepared for this meeting.

For the functional requirements and especially for the for the user requirements. I prepare a marketing report and we have to find the weaknesses and and the the improvements we could do to the current remote controls. And also I di I did a study with  for the incorporation of new technologies it seems that the remote controls have been  have remained the same for the last five , ten years. There is no no significant difference between the the b the first new controls and


For the functional requirements and especially for the for the user requirements. I prepare a marketing report and we have to find the weaknesses and and the the improvements we could do to the current remote controls. And also I di I did a study with  for the incorporation of new technologies it seems that the remote controls have been  have remained the same for the last five , ten years. There is no no significant difference between the the b the first new controls and


Well   more  most of the people think that remote controls are ugly , thoroughly. So and they they admit that the the they should uh s they would uh spend more money in a fancier remote control , which is which is good and it's interesting point. Also the people are worried about about the R*_S_I_ disease , which is if you repeat the sa the same movement , which is not a  with a not very appropriate device , you you will have problems whe when you will get old. So s people are uh are worried about the the shape of the of the remote control. They are also   they get angry very often because they lost the remote control very often , so I think it would be a good point to to l to to find a a solution to  any beep any alarm or something incorporated to  with the remote control every time it it get lost.


Well   more  most of the people think that remote controls are ugly , thoroughly. So and they they admit that the the they should uh s they would uh spend more money in a fancier remote control , which is which is good and it's interesting point. Also the people are worried about about the R*_S_I_ disease , which is if you repeat the sa the same movement , which is not a  with a not very appropriate device , you you will have problems whe when you will get old. So s people are uh are worried about the the shape of the of the remote control. They are also   they get angry very often because they lost the remote control very often , so I think it would be a good point to to l to to find a a solution to  any beep any alarm or something incorporated to  with the remote control every time it it get lost.

And also I found that young people  the the younger people are the more interested they are in incorporating new technologies in the in the remote control.


And also I found that young people  the the younger people are the more interested they are in incorporating new technologies in the in the remote control.

So   in my opinion the Mando  this Mando shouldn't be very small because the smaller it is , the more like  the the liklier it is to get lost. Liklier or more likely ?


So   in my opinion the Mando  this Mando shouldn't be very small because the smaller it is , the more like  the the liklier it is to get lost. Liklier or more likely ?

likely. Okay. Uh  people also complain because they they they all have the same size of the buttons for buttons who w which are not very use like f uh memorising channels or or this kind of actions which are not very often but  they they shouldn't they shouldn't have the same importance in the in the uh in the remote cont in the remote control. Also the z the design should fit the hand shape. So it may be interesting to to think in a  in both prototypes , for right and left handed people.


So   in my opinion the Mando  this Mando shouldn't be very small because the smaller it is , the more like  the the liklier it is to get lost. Liklier or more likely ?

likely. Okay. Uh  people also complain because they they they all have the same size of the buttons for buttons who w which are not very use like f uh memorising channels or or this kind of actions which are not very often but  they they shouldn't they shouldn't have the same importance in the in the uh in the remote cont in the remote control. Also the z the design should fit the hand shape. So it may be interesting to to think in a  in both prototypes , for right and left handed people.

Well th the on the thing is though , most remote controls are used by more than one person. So unless you're kind of targeting single people you know you're gonna maybe


likely. Okay. Uh  people also complain because they they they all have the same size of the buttons for buttons who w which are not very use like f uh memorising channels or or this kind of actions which are not very often but  they they shouldn't they shouldn't have the same importance in the in the uh in the remote cont in the remote control. Also the z the design should fit the hand shape. So it may be interesting to to think in a  in both prototypes , for right and left handed people.

Well th the on the thing is though , most remote controls are used by more than one person. So unless you're kind of targeting single people you know you're gonna maybe


Well th the on the thing is though , most remote controls are used by more than one person. So unless you're kind of targeting single people you know you're gonna maybe

I dunno I th Anyway I think it could be int interesting to to release some  a a small fraction of of this remote controls.


I dunno I th Anyway I think it could be int interesting to to release some  a a small fraction of of this remote controls.

Well maybe it could be a universal design.


I dunno I th Anyway I think it could be int interesting to to release some  a a small fraction of of this remote controls.

Well maybe it could be a universal design.

A universal design , which is which is good for both the hands.


Well maybe it could be a universal design.

A universal design , which is which is good for both the hands.

Still shaped for yeah for your hand but not for a particular hand , right ?


A universal design , which is which is good for both the hands.

Still shaped for yeah for your hand but not for a particular hand , right ?


A universal design , which is which is good for both the hands.

Still shaped for yeah for your hand but not for a particular hand , right ?

Yeah ? That's right , whether it's left hand or right hand ,


Still shaped for yeah for your hand but not for a particular hand , right ?

Yeah ? That's right , whether it's left hand or right hand ,


Yeah ? That's right , whether it's left hand or right hand ,

but but  don't you think that the two points are clashing , one thing you are saying design should fit the hand shape and it should not be very small ?


but but  don't you think that the two points are clashing , one thing you are saying design should fit the hand shape and it should not be very small ?

The first and the third point , they are clashing.


but but  don't you think that the two points are clashing , one thing you are saying design should fit the hand shape and it should not be very small ?

The first and the third point , they are clashing.

Well it can still be a  , you can still extend past the hand.


The first and the third point , they are clashing.

Well it can still be a  , you can still extend past the hand.


Well it can still be a  , you can still extend past the hand.


So fitting the hand doesn't mean much then.


So fitting the hand doesn't mean much then.

Well it means  like , this remote here is kind of  is very thin and long so instead of having  you know you might have it kind of  a bit bigger


Well it means  like , this remote here is kind of  is very thin and long so instead of having  you know you might have it kind of  a bit bigger

or , you know , with maybe some some finger molds or something.


or , you know , with maybe some some finger molds or something.


or , you know , with maybe some some finger molds or something.

So it means design should be similar to the traditional ones ?


So it means design should be similar to the traditional ones ?


So it means design should be similar to the traditional ones ?

No no I was thinking of so like something


No no I was thinking of so like something


You could even have some buttons like you know on the sides and everything ,


You could even have some buttons like you know on the sides and everything ,

Yeah yeah. It sh it shouldn't it shouldn't be symmetric symmetrical.


Yeah yeah. It sh it shouldn't it shouldn't be symmetric symmetrical.


And finally , the incorporation of a L_C_D_ or a speech recognition system in the remote control could also be interesting , but I don't know if the budget would be large enough.


And finally , the incorporation of a L_C_D_ or a speech recognition system in the remote control could also be interesting , but I don't know if the budget would be large enough.

Yeah. First I'm just wondering about the L_C_D_ stuff because uh because


And finally , the incorporation of a L_C_D_ or a speech recognition system in the remote control could also be interesting , but I don't know if the budget would be large enough.

Yeah. First I'm just wondering about the L_C_D_ stuff because uh because

But most of  yeah most of the young people to thirty to thirty years old were really interested in this kind of technology.


Yeah. First I'm just wondering about the L_C_D_ stuff because uh because

But most of  yeah most of the young people to thirty to thirty years old were really interested in this kind of technology.

Yeah , so maybe it's a good time for me to uh  to bring you to some new uh new informations. We had the new requirements from the  so uh from the head offices of the company , and so they wanted  so they want to um  they would like to be restricted to T_V_.


But most of  yeah most of the young people to thirty to thirty years old were really interested in this kind of technology.

Yeah , so maybe it's a good time for me to uh  to bring you to some new uh new informations. We had the new requirements from the  so uh from the head offices of the company , and so they wanted  so they want to um  they would like to be restricted to T_V_.

Okay , I dunno if you had this information already. No ,


Yeah , so maybe it's a good time for me to uh  to bring you to some new uh new informations. We had the new requirements from the  so uh from the head offices of the company , and so they wanted  so they want to um  they would like to be restricted to T_V_.

Okay , I dunno if you had this information already. No ,


Okay , I dunno if you had this information already. No ,

so they want us to restrict the remote control to T_V_ only because of time limitations. Um they want also uh


Okay , I dunno if you had this information already. No ,

so they want us to restrict the remote control to T_V_ only because of time limitations. Um they want also uh

Actually this marketing report is restricted to T_V_ remote controls.


so they want us to restrict the remote control to T_V_ only because of time limitations. Um they want also uh

Actually this marketing report is restricted to T_V_ remote controls.

Excellent. So we have also to focus more on the internet aspects because well well te teletext is outdated now and uh finally ,  it should be clear that the corporate image , that means colours and logos of the co our company should be clearly inde identified in the product. So


so they want us to restrict the remote control to T_V_ only because of time limitations. Um they want also uh

Actually this marketing report is restricted to T_V_ remote controls.

Excellent. So we have also to focus more on the internet aspects because well well te teletext is outdated now and uh finally ,  it should be clear that the corporate image , that means colours and logos of the co our company should be clearly inde identified in the product. So

I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there , this is quite a low uh price if if we're  maybe I can get to this in my presentation though ,


Actually this marketing report is restricted to T_V_ remote controls.

Excellent. So we have also to focus more on the internet aspects because well well te teletext is outdated now and uh finally ,  it should be clear that the corporate image , that means colours and logos of the co our company should be clearly inde identified in the product. So

I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there , this is quite a low uh price if if we're  maybe I can get to this in my presentation though ,


Excellent. So we have also to focus more on the internet aspects because well well te teletext is outdated now and uh finally ,  it should be clear that the corporate image , that means colours and logos of the co our company should be clearly inde identified in the product. So

I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there , this is quite a low uh price if if we're  maybe I can get to this in my presentation though ,


I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there , this is quite a low uh price if if we're  maybe I can get to this in my presentation though ,

So maybe we can jump to your presentations , right now.


So maybe we can jump to your presentations , right now.


So maybe we can jump to your presentations , right now.

Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that  this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh reco


So maybe we can jump to your presentations , right now.

Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that  this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh reco

Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think  if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the


Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that  this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh reco

Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think  if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the


Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that  this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh reco

Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think  if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the

Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder , so.


Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think  if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the

Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder , so.

Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate , so  yeah yeah.


Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder , so.

Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate , so  yeah yeah.

Oh you press a press a button to talk , and the the T_V_ the T_V_  sound turns off.


Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate , so  yeah yeah.

Oh you press a press a button to talk , and the the T_V_ the T_V_  sound turns off.

No it could be command control kind of thing.


Oh you press a press a button to talk , and the the T_V_ the T_V_  sound turns off.

No it could be command control kind of thing.


No it could be command control kind of thing.

It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say  you should say like does that , remote control being on or be on kind of thing , and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.


It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say  you should say like does that , remote control being on or be on kind of thing , and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.

Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.


Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.

So there should be something command controlled , you start and then you stop.


So there should be something command controlled , you start and then you stop.

It's like V_I_ editor , you are having two modes similarly.


It's like V_I_ editor , you are having two modes similarly.


It's like V_I_ editor , you are having two modes similarly.

Okay , so , could I describe the mouse maybe  be easier to


Okay , so , could I describe the mouse maybe  be easier to


Okay so um while uh researching this this topic I first of all just thought of a couple of things that I would like to see in a remote , and just uh looked to see if they're actually available in any current remotes , and then also searched for which are the top-rated uh remote controls on Epinions dot com , which is a a you know a a customer um written basically review site. So um there's a pretty wide range of uh remote controls these days and and uh this remote control on the right here is is one of the more extravagant , but it's not really  it's by no means uh mm you know  on it's own in being so expensive. There are a lot of expensive remote controls out there.


Okay so um while uh researching this this topic I first of all just thought of a couple of things that I would like to see in a remote , and just uh looked to see if they're actually available in any current remotes , and then also searched for which are the top-rated uh remote controls on Epinions dot com , which is a a you know a a customer um written basically review site. So um there's a pretty wide range of uh remote controls these days and and uh this remote control on the right here is is one of the more extravagant , but it's not really  it's by no means uh mm you know  on it's own in being so expensive. There are a lot of expensive remote controls out there.

So   yeah it doe it's  well basically all the functions uh are controlled through through the L_C_D_ screen except for the really really kind of main functions , which have a couple of of their own buttons. Um and if you look at a lot of the universal remotes out um on the market , I know we're working on television remote , but a lot of the universal remotes out there have uh have these L_C_D_ screens which kind of helps when you're using multiple uh devices I suppose because you can have multiple kind of functions  d different functions on the screen at different times. But um the thing that I find most interesting about this remote control , and it's kind of difficult to uh to see in the slide , but it has a scroll wheel on it , which is kind of like uh a mouse scroll wheel , which I think is  it's a really kind of important design aspect um is  it's  'Cause the thing is what a  what we  the presen this presentation we had is what we want the remote control to actually do. And obviously the the simplest thing that a remote control does is it just change the change the channel.


So   yeah it doe it's  well basically all the functions uh are controlled through through the L_C_D_ screen except for the really really kind of main functions , which have a couple of of their own buttons. Um and if you look at a lot of the universal remotes out um on the market , I know we're working on television remote , but a lot of the universal remotes out there have uh have these L_C_D_ screens which kind of helps when you're using multiple uh devices I suppose because you can have multiple kind of functions  d different functions on the screen at different times. But um the thing that I find most interesting about this remote control , and it's kind of difficult to uh to see in the slide , but it has a scroll wheel on it , which is kind of like uh a mouse scroll wheel , which I think is  it's a really kind of important design aspect um is  it's  'Cause the thing is what a  what we  the presen this presentation we had is what we want the remote control to actually do. And obviously the the simplest thing that a remote control does is it just change the change the channel.


uh the  I think that a scroll wheel is actually pretty a pretty handy way of of changing the channel. 'Cause I know when I um when I use the remote to change the channel I very rarely use the numbers on the on the pad. I usually use the up and down


uh the  I think that a scroll wheel is actually pretty a pretty handy way of of changing the channel. 'Cause I know when I um when I use the remote to change the channel I very rarely use the numbers on the on the pad. I usually use the up and down

because most channels are you know two digit numbers and you have to press you know a special button to enter a two-digit number , and then two numbers , so that's just uh  it's annoying. So I think a scroll wheel is is quite handy. Now um the the scroll wheel is is much more useful if you have an L_C_D_ screen , and this brings us to the the point you were mentioning before about the internet uh capability.


because most channels are you know two digit numbers and you have to press you know a special button to enter a two-digit number , and then two numbers , so that's just uh  it's annoying. So I think a scroll wheel is is quite handy. Now um the the scroll wheel is is much more useful if you have an L_C_D_ screen , and this brings us to the the point you were mentioning before about the internet uh capability.

One possibility , if we  now we need to still talk about the price point because obviously a lot of this stuff can't be done for twenty five Eu uh Euro , but one possibility is to download program information into the L_C_D_ screen so that instead of actually saying I want to I want to go to channel thirty seven because I know this programme's on , you know , often you don't know what ch what channel it's on , or you don't know what's on. If you have a list of of programs on your L_C_D_ screen you just scroll to that program rather than to a channel. So if you think about  it's kind of like a  you know in mobile phones now you don't use  you don't remember people's phone number , you remember their name and you go find that name and ring it.


because most channels are you know two digit numbers and you have to press you know a special button to enter a two-digit number , and then two numbers , so that's just uh  it's annoying. So I think a scroll wheel is is quite handy. Now um the the scroll wheel is is much more useful if you have an L_C_D_ screen , and this brings us to the the point you were mentioning before about the internet uh capability.

One possibility , if we  now we need to still talk about the price point because obviously a lot of this stuff can't be done for twenty five Eu uh Euro , but one possibility is to download program information into the L_C_D_ screen so that instead of actually saying I want to I want to go to channel thirty seven because I know this programme's on , you know , often you don't know what ch what channel it's on , or you don't know what's on. If you have a list of of programs on your L_C_D_ screen you just scroll to that program rather than to a channel. So if you think about  it's kind of like a  you know in mobile phones now you don't use  you don't remember people's phone number , you remember their name and you go find that name and ring it.

So this would be pretty  kind of a handy thing to have , but um we we really need t to discuss the price. So , I mean there are  there are uh cheaper  this is another multi kinda purpose remote control where it's it's it's very simple , there's only a few buttons , but al each of those buttons does something different in a different context. So this is something else we might wanna consider , is really kind of limiting the number of buttons , because this is the top rating uh universal remote control on on Epinions. It it's really uh maybe worth thinking about limiting the number of buttons as much as as possible um because really I think people want to be able to find the button they're looking for without even looking at the remote control. And  was saying before about having different size buttons for different you know frequently used uh tasks , but I think also you know the location and and shape of the buttons is important , but also the number of buttons. So if you have too many buttons it it it increases the the difficulty of finding the one you want.


One possibility , if we  now we need to still talk about the price point because obviously a lot of this stuff can't be done for twenty five Eu uh Euro , but one possibility is to download program information into the L_C_D_ screen so that instead of actually saying I want to I want to go to channel thirty seven because I know this programme's on , you know , often you don't know what ch what channel it's on , or you don't know what's on. If you have a list of of programs on your L_C_D_ screen you just scroll to that program rather than to a channel. So if you think about  it's kind of like a  you know in mobile phones now you don't use  you don't remember people's phone number , you remember their name and you go find that name and ring it.

So this would be pretty  kind of a handy thing to have , but um we we really need t to discuss the price. So , I mean there are  there are uh cheaper  this is another multi kinda purpose remote control where it's it's it's very simple , there's only a few buttons , but al each of those buttons does something different in a different context. So this is something else we might wanna consider , is really kind of limiting the number of buttons , because this is the top rating uh universal remote control on on Epinions. It it's really uh maybe worth thinking about limiting the number of buttons as much as as possible um because really I think people want to be able to find the button they're looking for without even looking at the remote control. And  was saying before about having different size buttons for different you know frequently used uh tasks , but I think also you know the location and and shape of the buttons is important , but also the number of buttons. So if you have too many buttons it it it increases the the difficulty of finding the one you want.

But there is one problem  then the user has to understand each of that functionality.


So this would be pretty  kind of a handy thing to have , but um we we really need t to discuss the price. So , I mean there are  there are uh cheaper  this is another multi kinda purpose remote control where it's it's it's very simple , there's only a few buttons , but al each of those buttons does something different in a different context. So this is something else we might wanna consider , is really kind of limiting the number of buttons , because this is the top rating uh universal remote control on on Epinions. It it's really uh maybe worth thinking about limiting the number of buttons as much as as possible um because really I think people want to be able to find the button they're looking for without even looking at the remote control. And  was saying before about having different size buttons for different you know frequently used uh tasks , but I think also you know the location and and shape of the buttons is important , but also the number of buttons. So if you have too many buttons it it it increases the the difficulty of finding the one you want.

But there is one problem  then the user has to understand each of that functionality.


But there is one problem  then the user has to understand each of that functionality.


Because the same button is doing too many things.


Because the same button is doing too many things.

Yeah well we will have a bit of a simpler uh task in that we're only doing uh a television remote control. Um I think maybe one option is to have you know a little flip-open um door that uh that you have hidden most of the time , but contains the extra buttons like , say , the number buttons for instance. Um


Because the same button is doing too many things.

Yeah well we will have a bit of a simpler uh task in that we're only doing uh a television remote control. Um I think maybe one option is to have you know a little flip-open um door that uh that you have hidden most of the time , but contains the extra buttons like , say , the number buttons for instance. Um

I I would  if I had my perfect remote control , I'd probably just have no numbers at all on it because they're just in the way.


Yeah well we will have a bit of a simpler uh task in that we're only doing uh a television remote control. Um I think maybe one option is to have you know a little flip-open um door that uh that you have hidden most of the time , but contains the extra buttons like , say , the number buttons for instance. Um

I I would  if I had my perfect remote control , I'd probably just have no numbers at all on it because they're just in the way.


I I would  if I had my perfect remote control , I'd probably just have no numbers at all on it because they're just in the way.

They don't really do anything. Maybe you know I  although I do also find flip-open doors a bit of a pain because sometimes they can break off or or whatever , but maybe a door that you can you can permanantly remove or permanantly have on would be good.


They don't really do anything. Maybe you know I  although I do also find flip-open doors a bit of a pain because sometimes they can break off or or whatever , but maybe a door that you can you can permanantly remove or permanantly have on would be good.

Um  but I think definitely you need to to keep the buttons down to a minimum , but not not let that kind of interfere with the functionality of of the device. Um


They don't really do anything. Maybe you know I  although I do also find flip-open doors a bit of a pain because sometimes they can break off or or whatever , but maybe a door that you can you can permanantly remove or permanantly have on would be good.

Um  but I think definitely you need to to keep the buttons down to a minimum , but not not let that kind of interfere with the functionality of of the device. Um

H I think I think that the tr the transition to this to this new remote control shouldn't be very very abrupt very hard because w if people see a remo see the  see a remote control without numbers mm they will think it's very difficult to learn very difficult to  very different build  very different to the traditional


Um  but I think definitely you need to to keep the buttons down to a minimum , but not not let that kind of interfere with the functionality of of the device. Um

H I think I think that the tr the transition to this to this new remote control shouldn't be very very abrupt very hard because w if people see a remo see the  see a remote control without numbers mm they will think it's very difficult to learn very difficult to  very different build  very different to the traditional


Um  but I think definitely you need to to keep the buttons down to a minimum , but not not let that kind of interfere with the functionality of of the device. Um

H I think I think that the tr the transition to this to this new remote control shouldn't be very very abrupt very hard because w if people see a remo see the  see a remote control without numbers mm they will think it's very difficult to learn very difficult to  very different build  very different to the traditional

Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you  if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can , you know , navigate to a program without the numbers , then people might say that looks pretty easy.


H I think I think that the tr the transition to this to this new remote control shouldn't be very very abrupt very hard because w if people see a remo see the  see a remote control without numbers mm they will think it's very difficult to learn very difficult to  very different build  very different to the traditional

Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you  if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can , you know , navigate to a program without the numbers , then people might say that looks pretty easy.


Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you  if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can , you know , navigate to a program without the numbers , then people might say that looks pretty easy.


yep. Um okay , so , I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this  a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh  something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen , um which maybe maybe is too expensive , um but I think also at the scroll wheel , I haven't mentioned it here , the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen , just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that ,


yep. Um okay , so , I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this  a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh  something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen , um which maybe maybe is too expensive , um but I think also at the scroll wheel , I haven't mentioned it here , the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen , just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that ,

I mean , that would be a fairly cheap thing , compared to an L_C_D_ screen , to implement ,


yep. Um okay , so , I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this  a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh  something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen , um which maybe maybe is too expensive , um but I think also at the scroll wheel , I haven't mentioned it here , the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen , just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that ,

I mean , that would be a fairly cheap thing , compared to an L_C_D_ screen , to implement ,

um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing , you say we need to we need to keep it just television , but I think one  maybe one option , since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device , is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of  you can have with technology , and maybe we wanna make it something that's  extensible to do other tasks. Say you have like um  a little another little kind of base unit that can also receive signals as well as the television where you can , say uh , change the lighting in the room. You know that would be something maybe you could sell as an extra , so that it doesn't have to be part of the initial development , but , you know , later on you could you can you know you  also , selling the potential of the device. Then you say potentially you can then do other cool stuff like change the lights , I dunno , close the windows , whatever , turn the heating on , and um , I think that's something we may need to have as as  at least as an optional extra to to kinda make our product cool , since we say we're putting the fashion in electronics.


I mean , that would be a fairly cheap thing , compared to an L_C_D_ screen , to implement ,

um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing , you say we need to we need to keep it just television , but I think one  maybe one option , since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device , is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of  you can have with technology , and maybe we wanna make it something that's  extensible to do other tasks. Say you have like um  a little another little kind of base unit that can also receive signals as well as the television where you can , say uh , change the lighting in the room. You know that would be something maybe you could sell as an extra , so that it doesn't have to be part of the initial development , but , you know , later on you could you can you know you  also , selling the potential of the device. Then you say potentially you can then do other cool stuff like change the lights , I dunno , close the windows , whatever , turn the heating on , and um , I think that's something we may need to have as as  at least as an optional extra to to kinda make our product cool , since we say we're putting the fashion in electronics.

Okay.  Okay. Okay , thanks.   you want to go ?


um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing , you say we need to we need to keep it just television , but I think one  maybe one option , since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device , is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of  you can have with technology , and maybe we wanna make it something that's  extensible to do other tasks. Say you have like um  a little another little kind of base unit that can also receive signals as well as the television where you can , say uh , change the lighting in the room. You know that would be something maybe you could sell as an extra , so that it doesn't have to be part of the initial development , but , you know , later on you could you can you know you  also , selling the potential of the device. Then you say potentially you can then do other cool stuff like change the lights , I dunno , close the windows , whatever , turn the heating on , and um , I think that's something we may need to have as as  at least as an optional extra to to kinda make our product cool , since we say we're putting the fashion in electronics.

Okay.  Okay. Okay , thanks.   you want to go ?


um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing , you say we need to we need to keep it just television , but I think one  maybe one option , since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device , is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of  you can have with technology , and maybe we wanna make it something that's  extensible to do other tasks. Say you have like um  a little another little kind of base unit that can also receive signals as well as the television where you can , say uh , change the lighting in the room. You know that would be something maybe you could sell as an extra , so that it doesn't have to be part of the initial development , but , you know , later on you could you can you know you  also , selling the potential of the device. Then you say potentially you can then do other cool stuff like change the lights , I dunno , close the windows , whatever , turn the heating on , and um , I think that's something we may need to have as as  at least as an optional extra to to kinda make our product cool , since we say we're putting the fashion in electronics.

Okay.  Okay. Okay , thanks.   you want to go ?

So most of the things which we are discussing about is speech recognition uh , that means on my own I


Okay.  Okay. Okay , thanks.   you want to go ?

So most of the things which we are discussing about is speech recognition uh , that means on my own I


So most of the things which we are discussing about is speech recognition uh , that means on my own I


Okay so the working design is uh user i interface could be of two types , one is the usual press buttons which are there so that the user feels that he is knoing  doing some he is knowing about that technology. So he is pretty comfortable if he wants to get this , and on top of that there there could be a speech recognition technology also being  sitting on the on the remote. So the old kind of users who don't want to have any changes , it can it can be useful for them , and the new users , as uh our Marketing Expert was saying , they can use the new gizmo which is speech recognition kind of thing.


Okay so the working design is uh user i interface could be of two types , one is the usual press buttons which are there so that the user feels that he is knoing  doing some he is knowing about that technology. So he is pretty comfortable if he wants to get this , and on top of that there there could be a speech recognition technology also being  sitting on the on the remote. So the old kind of users who don't want to have any changes , it can it can be useful for them , and the new users , as uh our Marketing Expert was saying , they can use the new gizmo which is speech recognition kind of thing.

Okay , sorry to interrupt you , but we have seen before that there is a new way of interacting that use wheel.


Okay so the working design is uh user i interface could be of two types , one is the usual press buttons which are there so that the user feels that he is knoing  doing some he is knowing about that technology. So he is pretty comfortable if he wants to get this , and on top of that there there could be a speech recognition technology also being  sitting on the on the remote. So the old kind of users who don't want to have any changes , it can it can be useful for them , and the new users , as uh our Marketing Expert was saying , they can use the new gizmo which is speech recognition kind of thing.

Okay , sorry to interrupt you , but we have seen before that there is a new way of interacting that use wheel.

That's right. So anyway , that didn't come into my mind ,


Okay , sorry to interrupt you , but we have seen before that there is a new way of interacting that use wheel.

That's right. So anyway , that didn't come into my mind ,

so th that is a possibility. These could be other kind of interfaces.


That's right. So anyway , that didn't come into my mind ,

so th that is a possibility. These could be other kind of interfaces.

Means we can have , depending on the cost , how much we can afford , we can have different kind of interfaces. So spe buttons are something which is very  everybody is familiar with. So if you go to the market and you say that buttons are there the people know what it is ,


so th that is a possibility. These could be other kind of interfaces.

Means we can have , depending on the cost , how much we can afford , we can have different kind of interfaces. So spe buttons are something which is very  everybody is familiar with. So if you go to the market and you say that buttons are there the people know what it is ,


so th that is a possibility. These could be other kind of interfaces.

Means we can have , depending on the cost , how much we can afford , we can have different kind of interfaces. So spe buttons are something which is very  everybody is familiar with. So if you go to the market and you say that buttons are there the people know what it is ,

and on top of that if we are having extra functionality people are willing to shell that twenty-five Euros money which we are thinking. Otherwise we are just like others in the market. So anyway that is the first , user interface could be of more than one type , and uh yeah that means we can do the on-line changes which which cannot be done now actually. So apart from the speech , we can have the scroll kind of thing with the buttons. Now for buttons , normal requirements like bit coding and all those things are required. And for voice , limited vocabulary automatic speech recognition system is required and we require a microphone also to be sitting there on the remote.


Means we can have , depending on the cost , how much we can afford , we can have different kind of interfaces. So spe buttons are something which is very  everybody is familiar with. So if you go to the market and you say that buttons are there the people know what it is ,

and on top of that if we are having extra functionality people are willing to shell that twenty-five Euros money which we are thinking. Otherwise we are just like others in the market. So anyway that is the first , user interface could be of more than one type , and uh yeah that means we can do the on-line changes which which cannot be done now actually. So apart from the speech , we can have the scroll kind of thing with the buttons. Now for buttons , normal requirements like bit coding and all those things are required. And for voice , limited vocabulary automatic speech recognition system is required and we require a microphone also to be sitting there on the remote.


and on top of that if we are having extra functionality people are willing to shell that twenty-five Euros money which we are thinking. Otherwise we are just like others in the market. So anyway that is the first , user interface could be of more than one type , and uh yeah that means we can do the on-line changes which which cannot be done now actually. So apart from the speech , we can have the scroll kind of thing with the buttons. Now for buttons , normal requirements like bit coding and all those things are required. And for voice , limited vocabulary automatic speech recognition system is required and we require a microphone also to be sitting there on the remote.

Uh that's right. But uh means we have to see how much  what kind of microphones and stuff like that.


and on top of that if we are having extra functionality people are willing to shell that twenty-five Euros money which we are thinking. Otherwise we are just like others in the market. So anyway that is the first , user interface could be of more than one type , and uh yeah that means we can do the on-line changes which which cannot be done now actually. So apart from the speech , we can have the scroll kind of thing with the buttons. Now for buttons , normal requirements like bit coding and all those things are required. And for voice , limited vocabulary automatic speech recognition system is required and we require a microphone also to be sitting there on the remote.

Uh that's right. But uh means we have to see how much  what kind of microphones and stuff like that.

Do you think that performance of such systems are enough to to target well  of such technologies is enough ?


Uh that's right. But uh means we have to see how much  what kind of microphones and stuff like that.

Do you think that performance of such systems are enough to to target well  of such technologies is enough ?

Uh yes , if it is limited vocabulary usually it's enough.


Do you think that performance of such systems are enough to to target well  of such technologies is enough ?

Uh yes , if it is limited vocabulary usually it's enough.

Yeah we we can uh target , means we can target ninety five percent accuracy or somewhere ninety seven perc


Uh yes , if it is limited vocabulary usually it's enough.

Yeah we we can uh target , means we can target ninety five percent accuracy or somewhere ninety seven perc

Well wh uh I imagine also that the microphone will be an ambiance um a um an ambience microphones


Yeah we we can uh target , means we can target ninety five percent accuracy or somewhere ninety seven perc

Well wh uh I imagine also that the microphone will be an ambiance um a um an ambience microphones


Yeah we we can uh target , means we can target ninety five percent accuracy or somewhere ninety seven perc

Well wh uh I imagine also that the microphone will be an ambiance um a um an ambience microphones

because you are not going to speak into into th into the remote control.


Well wh uh I imagine also that the microphone will be an ambiance um a um an ambience microphones

because you are not going to speak into into th into the remote control.

That's right. No it it could be little d yeah it could be


because you are not going to speak into into th into the remote control.

That's right. No it it could be little d yeah it could be


because you are not going to speak into into th into the remote control.

That's right. No it it could be little d yeah it could be

Well one one other thing that that speech recognition could really blow out the price for is uh when you want to sell into other markets , though ,


That's right. No it it could be little d yeah it could be

Well one one other thing that that speech recognition could really blow out the price for is uh when you want to sell into other markets , though ,


Well one one other thing that that speech recognition could really blow out the price for is uh when you want to sell into other markets , though ,

because , I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna sell this , but I presume it's not gonna just be English speaking countries.


because , I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna sell this , but I presume it's not gonna just be English speaking countries.

So then you have to s you know , you have to train models for


because , I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna sell this , but I presume it's not gonna just be English speaking countries.

So then you have to s you know , you have to train models for

Mm-hmm mm-hmm. Uh it's more like , means there are different speech technologies which are existing so D_T_W_ could be kind of which is the easiest. So you have to store some templates on the on the on the chip itself , and  it's just dynamic time warping where you try to find out what it is , instead of having a model which has to be trained and being a micro-controller.


So then you have to s you know , you have to train models for

Mm-hmm mm-hmm. Uh it's more like , means there are different speech technologies which are existing so D_T_W_ could be kind of which is the easiest. So you have to store some templates on the on the on the chip itself , and  it's just dynamic time warping where you try to find out what it is , instead of having a model which has to be trained and being a micro-controller.


So then you have to s you know , you have to train models for

Mm-hmm mm-hmm. Uh it's more like , means there are different speech technologies which are existing so D_T_W_ could be kind of which is the easiest. So you have to store some templates on the on the on the chip itself , and  it's just dynamic time warping where you try to find out what it is , instead of having a model which has to be trained and being a micro-controller.

Okay. Okay we shou we should discuss this la later after after after this this uh slide.


Mm-hmm mm-hmm. Uh it's more like , means there are different speech technologies which are existing so D_T_W_ could be kind of which is the easiest. So you have to store some templates on the on the on the chip itself , and  it's just dynamic time warping where you try to find out what it is , instead of having a model which has to be trained and being a micro-controller.

Okay. Okay we shou we should discuss this la later after after after this this uh slide.


Okay. Okay we shou we should discuss this la later after after after this this uh slide.

This is a this is a this is a a very important uh issue in discussion.


This is a this is a this is a a very important uh issue in discussion.


Yeah. So , will you go to the next slide ?


Yeah. So , will you go to the next slide ?

Yeah so this is the design which we are thinking so. We are having a power button and the switch  , which is not much ,


Yeah. So , will you go to the next slide ?

Yeah so this is the design which we are thinking so. We are having a power button and the switch  , which is not much ,

and then we are having the  which is to indicate whether the power is on or not. And then there are two kind of things which can be  so one is the button interface which has not been shown because because of lack of time .


Yeah so this is the design which we are thinking so. We are having a power button and the switch  , which is not much ,

and then we are having the  which is to indicate whether the power is on or not. And then there are two kind of things which can be  so one is the button interface which has not been shown because because of lack of time .

So we could not put that. So now where the A_S_R_ decoder is sitting , similarly there are different kind of interfaces which could be there. So there is A_S_R_ decoder which could be there , and then there could be another scroll button scroll scroller , and then there could be buttons , and all of them they will just do the decoding and put it in the math put it in the proper message format. And then there is there is the chip which is sitting , the green one , and it converts it into bit codes , and that bit codes are sent by the infrared device to the receiver.


and then we are having the  which is to indicate whether the power is on or not. And then there are two kind of things which can be  so one is the button interface which has not been shown because because of lack of time .

So we could not put that. So now where the A_S_R_ decoder is sitting , similarly there are different kind of interfaces which could be there. So there is A_S_R_ decoder which could be there , and then there could be another scroll button scroll scroller , and then there could be buttons , and all of them they will just do the decoding and put it in the math put it in the proper message format. And then there is there is the chip which is sitting , the green one , and it converts it into bit codes , and that bit codes are sent by the infrared device to the receiver.

So this is the easiest design the there could be. So th an A_S_R_ decoder we can have things in . To have different technologies. So this was the  my personal preference was that we can have A_S_R_ sitting there on the remote control.


So we could not put that. So now where the A_S_R_ decoder is sitting , similarly there are different kind of interfaces which could be there. So there is A_S_R_ decoder which could be there , and then there could be another scroll button scroll scroller , and then there could be buttons , and all of them they will just do the decoding and put it in the math put it in the proper message format. And then there is there is the chip which is sitting , the green one , and it converts it into bit codes , and that bit codes are sent by the infrared device to the receiver.

So this is the easiest design the there could be. So th an A_S_R_ decoder we can have things in . To have different technologies. So this was the  my personal preference was that we can have A_S_R_ sitting there on the remote control.

You know I guess you could actually train the remote control as you're using it by saying you know  turn volume up , and you press the uh press the button


So this is the easiest design the there could be. So th an A_S_R_ decoder we can have things in . To have different technologies. So this was the  my personal preference was that we can have A_S_R_ sitting there on the remote control.

You know I guess you could actually train the remote control as you're using it by saying you know  turn volume up , and you press the uh press the button