And  and I was just thinking that , um ,  if it were possible to bring that in , like ,  you know , this week , then  when they 're encoding the overlaps  it would be nice for them to be able to specify when  you know , the start points and end points of overlaps.

uh Th - they 're  making really quick progress.


uh Th - they 're  making really quick progress.

And , um , so my  my goal was  w m my charge was to get eleven hours by the end of the month. And it 'll be  I 'm  I 'm  I 'm clear that we 'll be able to do that.


And , um , so my  my goal was  w m my charge was to get eleven hours by the end of the month. And it 'll be  I 'm  I 'm  I 'm clear that we 'll be able to do that.

And did you , uh , forward Morgan Brian 's  thing ?


And did you , uh , forward Morgan Brian 's  thing ?

I sent  it to , um  who did I send that to ? I sent it to a list and I thought  I sent it to  the   e to the local list.


I sent  it to , um  who did I send that to ? I sent it to a list and I thought  I sent it to  the   e to the local list.

Oh , you did ? OK. So you probably did get that.


I sent  it to , um  who did I send that to ? I sent it to a list and I thought  I sent it to  the   e to the local list.

Oh , you did ? OK. So you probably did get that.

You saw that ? So Brian did tell  me that  in fact what you said , that ,  uh  that  our  that they are  making progress and that he 's going  that  they 're  going  he 's gonna check the f the output of the first transcription and  and


Oh , you did ? OK. So you probably did get that.

You saw that ? So Brian did tell  me that  in fact what you said , that ,  uh  that  our  that they are  making progress and that he 's going  that  they 're  going  he 's gonna check the f the output of the first transcription and  and

I mean , basically it 's  it 's all the difference in the world. I mean , basically he 's  he 's on it now.


You saw that ? So Brian did tell  me that  in fact what you said , that ,  uh  that  our  that they are  making progress and that he 's going  that  they 're  going  he 's gonna check the f the output of the first transcription and  and

I mean , basically it 's  it 's all the difference in the world. I mean , basically he 's  he 's on it now.

Oh , that 's  this is a new development.


I mean , basically it 's  it 's all the difference in the world. I mean , basically he 's  he 's on it now.

Oh , that 's  this is a new development.


Oh , that 's  this is a new development.


Oh , that 's  this is a new development.

Yeah. I mean , basically it 's just saying that one of our  one of our best people is on it ,


Yeah. I mean , basically it 's just saying that one of our  one of our best people is on it ,


Yeah. I mean , basically it 's just saying that one of our  one of our best people is on it ,

you know , who just doesn't happen to be here anymore. Someone else pays him. So


you know , who just doesn't happen to be here anymore. Someone else pays him. So


you know , who just doesn't happen to be here anymore. Someone else pays him. So

I mean , don't we  didn't we previously  decide that the  IBM  transcripts would have to be  checked anyway and possibly augmented ?


I mean , don't we  didn't we previously  decide that the  IBM  transcripts would have to be  checked anyway and possibly augmented ?


I mean , don't we  didn't we previously  decide that the  IBM  transcripts would have to be  checked anyway and possibly augmented ?

So , I think having a good tool is worth something no matter what.


So , I think having a good tool is worth something no matter what.


So , I think having a good tool is worth something no matter what.

Yeah. S OK. That 's  that 's a good point.


Yeah. S OK. That 's  that 's a good point.


Yeah. S OK. That 's  that 's a good point.

and since he 's not here , I 'll repeat it  to at least modify Transcriber , which , if we don't have something else that works , I think that 's a pretty good way of going.


and since he 's not here , I 'll repeat it  to at least modify Transcriber , which , if we don't have something else that works , I think that 's a pretty good way of going.


and since he 's not here , I 'll repeat it  to at least modify Transcriber , which , if we don't have something else that works , I think that 's a pretty good way of going.

And we discussed on some methods to do it. My approach originally , and I 've already hacked on it a little bit  it was too slow because I was trying to display all the waveforms. But he pointed out that you don't really have to. I think that 's a good point.


And we discussed on some methods to do it. My approach originally , and I 've already hacked on it a little bit  it was too slow because I was trying to display all the waveforms. But he pointed out that you don't really have to. I think that 's a good point.


And we discussed on some methods to do it. My approach originally , and I 've already hacked on it a little bit  it was too slow because I was trying to display all the waveforms. But he pointed out that you don't really have to. I think that 's a good point.

That if you just display the mix waveform and then have a user interface for editing the different channels , that 's perfectly sufficient.


That if you just display the mix waveform and then have a user interface for editing the different channels , that 's perfectly sufficient.


That if you just display the mix waveform and then have a user interface for editing the different channels , that 's perfectly sufficient.

Yeah , exactly. And just keep those  things separate. And  and , um , Dan Ellis 's hack already allows them to be  able to display  different  waveforms to clarify overlaps and things ,


Yeah , exactly. And just keep those  things separate. And  and , um , Dan Ellis 's hack already allows them to be  able to display  different  waveforms to clarify overlaps and things ,


Oh , yes , but  Well ,  uh , yes , but  what I mean is  that , uh , from the transcriber 's  perspective , uh , those  two functions are separate. And Dan Ellis 's hack handles the ,  um , choice   the ability to choose different waveforms  from moment to moment.


The waveform you 're looking at doesn't change.


Yeah , but  that 's  that 's OK , cuz they 're  they 're , you know , they 're focused on the ear anyway.


the hack to  preserve the overlaps  better would be one which creates different output files for each channel ,


the hack to  preserve the overlaps  better would be one which creates different output files for each channel ,

which then  would also serve Liz 's request  of having , you know , a single channel , separable , uh , cleanly , easily separable ,


which then  would also serve Liz 's request  of having , you know , a single channel , separable , uh , cleanly , easily separable ,

uh , transcript tied to a single channel , uh , audio.


which then  would also serve Liz 's request  of having , you know , a single channel , separable , uh , cleanly , easily separable ,

uh , transcript tied to a single channel , uh , audio.

Mm - hmm. Have , uh , folks from NIST been in contact with you ?


uh , transcript tied to a single channel , uh , audio.

Mm - hmm. Have , uh , folks from NIST been in contact with you ?

Not directly. I 'm trying to think if  if I could have gotten it over a list.


Mm - hmm. Have , uh , folks from NIST been in contact with you ?

Not directly. I 'm trying to think if  if I could have gotten it over a list.


Not directly. I 'm trying to think if  if I could have gotten it over a list.

OK. Well , holidays may have interrupted things , cuz in  in  in  They  seem to want to  get absolutely clear on standards for  transcription standards and so forth with  with us.


OK. Well , holidays may have interrupted things , cuz in  in  in  They  seem to want to  get absolutely clear on standards for  transcription standards and so forth with  with us.

Oh ! This was from before December. Yeah.


OK. Well , holidays may have interrupted things , cuz in  in  in  They  seem to want to  get absolutely clear on standards for  transcription standards and so forth with  with us.

Oh ! This was from before December. Yeah.

Right. Because they 're  they 're presumably going to start recording next month.


Oh ! This was from before December. Yeah.

Right. Because they 're  they 're presumably going to start recording next month.

Oh , we should definitely get with them then ,


Right. Because they 're  they 're presumably going to start recording next month.

Oh , we should definitely get with them then ,


Oh , we should definitely get with them then ,

and agree upon a format. Though I don't remember email on that. So was I not in the loop on that ?


Oh , we should definitely get with them then ,

and agree upon a format. Though I don't remember email on that. So was I not in the loop on that ?

Um. Yeah , I don't think I mailed anybody. I just think I told them to contact Jane  that , uh , if they had a


and agree upon a format. Though I don't remember email on that. So was I not in the loop on that ?

Um. Yeah , I don't think I mailed anybody. I just think I told them to contact Jane  that , uh , if they had a


Um. Yeah , I don't think I mailed anybody. I just think I told them to contact Jane  that , uh , if they had a

if , uh  that  that , uh , as the point person on it.


if , uh  that  that , uh , as the point person on it.


So , yeah. Maybe I 'll , uh , ping them a little bit about it to  get that straight.


So , yeah. Maybe I 'll , uh , ping them a little bit about it to  get that straight.

OK. I 'm keeping the conventions  absolutely  as simple  as possible.


So , yeah. Maybe I 'll , uh , ping them a little bit about it to  get that straight.

OK. I 'm keeping the conventions  absolutely  as simple  as possible.

Yeah. So is it  cuz with any luck there 'll actually be a  a  there 'll be collections at Columbia , collections at  at UW  I mean Dan  Dan is very interested in doing some other things ,


OK. I 'm keeping the conventions  absolutely  as simple  as possible.

Yeah. So is it  cuz with any luck there 'll actually be a  a  there 'll be collections at Columbia , collections at  at UW  I mean Dan  Dan is very interested in doing some other things ,


Yeah. So is it  cuz with any luck there 'll actually be a  a  there 'll be collections at Columbia , collections at  at UW  I mean Dan  Dan is very interested in doing some other things ,

Well , I think it 's important both for the notation and the machine representation to be the same.


Well , I think it 's important both for the notation and the machine representation to be the same.


Well , I think it 's important both for the notation and the machine representation to be the same.

N there was also this ,  uh , email from Dan regarding the  speech - non nonspeech segmentation thing.


N there was also this ,  uh , email from Dan regarding the  speech - non nonspeech segmentation thing.


I don't know if , uh , uh , we wanna , uh  and Dan Gel - and Dave Gelbart is interested in pursuing the aspect  of using amplitude  as a  a  a  as a basis for the separation.


I don't know if , uh , uh , we wanna , uh  and Dan Gel - and Dave Gelbart is interested in pursuing the aspect  of using amplitude  as a  a  a  as a basis for the separation.

Oh , yeah. He was talking  he was talking  I mean , uh , we  he had


Oh , yeah. He was talking  he was talking  I mean , uh , we  he had


I had mentioned this a couple times before , the c the commercial devices that do , uh ,  uh , voice , uh  you know , active miking ,


I had mentioned this a couple times before , the c the commercial devices that do , uh ,  uh , voice , uh  you know , active miking ,

basically look at the amp at the energy at each of the mikes. And  and you basically compare the energy here to  some function of all of the mikes.


basically look at the amp at the energy at each of the mikes. And  and you basically compare the energy here to  some function of all of the mikes.


So , by doing that , you know , rather than setting any , uh , absolute threshold , you actually can do pretty good , uh , selection of who  who 's talking.


So , by doing that , you know , rather than setting any , uh , absolute threshold , you actually can do pretty good , uh , selection of who  who 's talking.

Uh  And those  those systems work very well , by the way , I mean , so people use them in  panel discussions and so forth with sound reinforcement differing in  in sort of ,


Uh  And those  those systems work very well , by the way , I mean , so people use them in  panel discussions and so forth with sound reinforcement differing in  in sort of ,

uh  and , uh , those  if  Boy , the guy I knew who built them , built them like twenty  twenty years ago ,


uh  and , uh , those  if  Boy , the guy I knew who built them , built them like twenty  twenty years ago ,

so they 're   it 's  the  the techniques work pretty well.


uh  and , uh , those  if  Boy , the guy I knew who built them , built them like twenty  twenty years ago ,

so they 're   it 's  the  the techniques work pretty well.

Fantastic. Cuz there is one thing that we don't have right now and that is the automatic , um , channel identifier.


so they 're   it 's  the  the techniques work pretty well.

Fantastic. Cuz there is one thing that we don't have right now and that is the automatic , um , channel identifier.


so they 're   it 's  the  the techniques work pretty well.

Fantastic. Cuz there is one thing that we don't have right now and that is the automatic , um , channel identifier.

That  that , you know , that would g help in terms of encoding of overlaps.


Fantastic. Cuz there is one thing that we don't have right now and that is the automatic , um , channel identifier.

That  that , you know , that would g help in terms of encoding of overlaps.


That  that , you know , that would g help in terms of encoding of overlaps.

The  the transcribers would have less , uh , disentangling to do  if that were available.


That  that , you know , that would g help in terms of encoding of overlaps.

The  the transcribers would have less , uh , disentangling to do  if that were available.

Yeah. So I think , you know , basically you can look at some  p you have to play around a little bit , uh , to figure out what the right statistic is ,


The  the transcribers would have less , uh , disentangling to do  if that were available.

Yeah. So I think , you know , basically you can look at some  p you have to play around a little bit , uh , to figure out what the right statistic is ,


Yeah. So I think , you know , basically you can look at some  p you have to play around a little bit , uh , to figure out what the right statistic is ,


but you compare each microphone to some statistic based on the   on the overall


Uh , and we also have these  we have the advantage of having  distant mikes too. So that , you cou yo


Uh , and we also have these  we have the advantage of having  distant mikes too. So that , you cou yo

Yeah , although the  the  using the close - talking I think would be much better. Wouldn't it ?


Yeah , although the  the  using the close - talking I think would be much better. Wouldn't it ?


I just  it 'd be  If I was actually working on it , I 'd sit there and  and play around with it , and  and get a feeling for it. I mean , the  the  the , uh  But , uh , you certainly wanna use the close - talking , as a  at least.


I just  it 'd be  If I was actually working on it , I 'd sit there and  and play around with it , and  and get a feeling for it. I mean , the  the  the , uh  But , uh , you certainly wanna use the close - talking , as a  at least.

I don't know if the other would  would add some other helpful dimension or not.


I don't know if the other would  would add some other helpful dimension or not.

Mm - hmm. OK. What  what are the different , uh , classes to  to code , uh , the  the overlap , you will use ?


Mm - hmm. OK. What  what are the different , uh , classes to  to code , uh , the  the overlap , you will use ?


Um , so  at a meeting that wasn't transcribed , we worked up a  a typology.


Um , so  at a meeting that wasn't transcribed , we worked up a  a typology.

Look like , uh , you t you explaining in the blackboard ? The  ? Yeah ? Yeah.


Look like , uh , you t you explaining in the blackboard ? The  ? Yeah ? Yeah.

Yes , exactly. That hasn't changed. So it  i the  it 's basically a two - tiered structure where the first one is whether  the person who 's interrupted continues or not. And then below that there 're  subcategories , uh , that have more to do with ,  you know , is it ,  uh , simply  backchannel


Look like , uh , you t you explaining in the blackboard ? The  ? Yeah ? Yeah.

Yes , exactly. That hasn't changed. So it  i the  it 's basically a two - tiered structure where the first one is whether  the person who 's interrupted continues or not. And then below that there 're  subcategories , uh , that have more to do with ,  you know , is it ,  uh , simply  backchannel

or is  it , um , someone completing someone else 's thought , or is it someone in introducing a new thought.


Yes , exactly. That hasn't changed. So it  i the  it 's basically a two - tiered structure where the first one is whether  the person who 's interrupted continues or not. And then below that there 're  subcategories , uh , that have more to do with ,  you know , is it ,  uh , simply  backchannel

or is  it , um , someone completing someone else 's thought , or is it someone in introducing a new thought.

Right. And I hope that if we do a forced alignment with the close - talking mike , that will be enough to recover at least some of the time the time information of when the overlap occurred.


or is  it , um , someone completing someone else 's thought , or is it someone in introducing a new thought.

Right. And I hope that if we do a forced alignment with the close - talking mike , that will be enough to recover at least some of the time the time information of when the overlap occurred.


Right. And I hope that if we do a forced alignment with the close - talking mike , that will be enough to recover at least some of the time the time information of when the overlap occurred.


That 'd be  that 'd be nice. I mean ,  I  I  I  I 've


That 'd be  that 'd be nice. I mean ,  I  I  I  I 've

So who 's gonna do that ? Who 's gonna do forced alignment ?


So who 's gonna do that ? Who 's gonna do forced alignment ?


and I imagine they still plan to but  but , you know , I haven't spoken with them about that recently.


and I imagine they still plan to but  but , you know , I haven't spoken with them about that recently.

Well , uh , my suggestion now is  is on all of these things to , uh , contact Brian.


Well , uh , my suggestion now is  is on all of these things to , uh , contact Brian.


Well , uh , my suggestion now is  is on all of these things to , uh , contact Brian.

This is wonderful  to have a direct contact like that.


This is wonderful  to have a direct contact like that.


It occurs to me   one of my transcribers t  told  me today that she 'll  be finished with one meeting ,  um , by


It occurs to me   one of my transcribers t  told  me today that she 'll  be finished with one meeting ,  um , by

well , she said tomorrow but then she said   you know , but   the , you know  let 's  let 's just , uh , say


well , she said tomorrow but then she said   you know , but   the , you know  let 's  let 's just , uh , say

maybe the day after just to be s on the safe side. I could send Brian the ,  um  the  transcript. I know these  are  er , uh , I could send him that  if  it would be possible ,  or a good idea or not , to  try  to do a s forced alignment on what we 're  on the way we 're encoding overlaps now.


maybe the day after just to be s on the safe side. I could send Brian the ,  um  the  transcript. I know these  are  er , uh , I could send him that  if  it would be possible ,  or a good idea or not , to  try  to do a s forced alignment on what we 're  on the way we 're encoding overlaps now.


I mean , you know , basically he 's  he just studies , he 's a colleague , a friend , and ,


I mean , you know , basically he 's  he just studies , he 's a colleague , a friend , and ,

uh , they  and  and , you know , the  the organization always did wanna help us.


uh , they  and  and , you know , the  the organization always did wanna help us.

It was just a question of getting , you know , the right people connected in , who had the time.


It was just a question of getting , you know , the right people connected in , who had the time.


Is he on the mailing list ? The Meeting Recorder mailing li ?


Did something happen , Morgan , that he got put on this , or was he already on it ,


Did something happen , Morgan , that he got put on this , or was he already on it ,

No , I , eh , eh , p It  it oc I  h it 's  Yeah , something happened. I don't know what.


No , I , eh , eh , p It  it oc I  h it 's  Yeah , something happened. I don't know what.


That would be  like  that 'd be like him. He 's great.


That would be  like  that 'd be like him. He 's great.

Right. So , uh , where are we ? Maybe , uh , uh , brief  Well , let 's  why don't we talk about microphone issues ?


Right. So , uh , where are we ? Maybe , uh , uh , brief  Well , let 's  why don't we talk about microphone issues ?

Um , so one thing is that I did look on Sony 's for a replacement for the mikes   for the head m head - worn ones cuz they 're so uncomfortable. But I think I need someone who knows more about mikes than I do , because I couldn't find a single other model that seemed like it would fit the connector , which seems really unlikely to me. Does anyone , like , know stores or  know about mikes who  who would know the right questions to ask ?


Um , so one thing is that I did look on Sony 's for a replacement for the mikes   for the head m head - worn ones cuz they 're so uncomfortable. But I think I need someone who knows more about mikes than I do , because I couldn't find a single other model that seemed like it would fit the connector , which seems really unlikely to me. Does anyone , like , know stores or  know about mikes who  who would know the right questions to ask ?

Oh , I probably would. I mean , my knowledge is twenty years out of date but some of it 's still the same.


Um , so one thing is that I did look on Sony 's for a replacement for the mikes   for the head m head - worn ones cuz they 're so uncomfortable. But I think I need someone who knows more about mikes than I do , because I couldn't find a single other model that seemed like it would fit the connector , which seems really unlikely to me. Does anyone , like , know stores or  know about mikes who  who would know the right questions to ask ?

Oh , I probably would. I mean , my knowledge is twenty years out of date but some of it 's still the same.

So  Uh , so maybe we c we can take a look at that.


Oh , I probably would. I mean , my knowledge is twenty years out of date but some of it 's still the same.

So  Uh , so maybe we c we can take a look at that.

You couldn't  you couldn't find the right connector to go into these things ?


So  Uh , so maybe we c we can take a look at that.

You couldn't  you couldn't find the right connector to go into these things ?

Yep. When I looked , i they listed one microphone and that 's it


You couldn't  you couldn't find the right connector to go into these things ?

Yep. When I looked , i they listed one microphone and that 's it

as having that type of connector. But my guess is that Sony maybe uses a different number for their connector than everyone else does. And  and so


Yep. When I looked , i they listed one microphone and that 's it

as having that type of connector. But my guess is that Sony maybe uses a different number for their connector than everyone else does. And  and so

Mm - hmm. Well , let 's look at it together


as having that type of connector. But my guess is that Sony maybe uses a different number for their connector than everyone else does. And  and so

Mm - hmm. Well , let 's look at it together

it seems  it seems really unlikely to me that there 's only one.


Mm - hmm. Well , let 's look at it together

it seems  it seems really unlikely to me that there 's only one.


it seems  it seems really unlikely to me that there 's only one.


I have it downstairs. I don't remember off the top of my head.


I have it downstairs. I don't remember off the top of my head.

Yeah. OK. Yeah. We  we can try and look at that together.


I have it downstairs. I don't remember off the top of my head.

Yeah. OK. Yeah. We  we can try and look at that together.

And then , uh  just in terms of how you wear them  I mean , I had thought about this before. I mean , when  when  when you use a product like DragonDictate , they have a very extensive description about how to wear the microphone and so on.


Yeah. OK. Yeah. We  we can try and look at that together.

And then , uh  just in terms of how you wear them  I mean , I had thought about this before. I mean , when  when  when you use a product like DragonDictate , they have a very extensive description about how to wear the microphone and so on.

But I felt that in a real situation we were very seldom gonna get people to really do it and maybe it wasn't worth concentrating on. But


And then , uh  just in terms of how you wear them  I mean , I had thought about this before. I mean , when  when  when you use a product like DragonDictate , they have a very extensive description about how to wear the microphone and so on.

But I felt that in a real situation we were very seldom gonna get people to really do it and maybe it wasn't worth concentrating on. But

Well , I think that that 's  that 's a good back - off position. That 's what I was saying  earlier , th that , you know , we are gonna get some  recordings that are imperfect and , hey , that 's life. But I  I think that it  it doesn't hurt , uh , the naturalness of the situation to try to have people  wear the microphones properly , if possible ,


But I felt that in a real situation we were very seldom gonna get people to really do it and maybe it wasn't worth concentrating on. But

Well , I think that that 's  that 's a good back - off position. That 's what I was saying  earlier , th that , you know , we are gonna get some  recordings that are imperfect and , hey , that 's life. But I  I think that it  it doesn't hurt , uh , the naturalness of the situation to try to have people  wear the microphones properly , if possible ,


But I felt that in a real situation we were very seldom gonna get people to really do it and maybe it wasn't worth concentrating on. But

Well , I think that that 's  that 's a good back - off position. That 's what I was saying  earlier , th that , you know , we are gonna get some  recordings that are imperfect and , hey , that 's life. But I  I think that it  it doesn't hurt , uh , the naturalness of the situation to try to have people  wear the microphones properly , if possible ,

because ,  um , the natural situation is really what we have with the microphones on the table.


Well , I think that that 's  that 's a good back - off position. That 's what I was saying  earlier , th that , you know , we are gonna get some  recordings that are imperfect and , hey , that 's life. But I  I think that it  it doesn't hurt , uh , the naturalness of the situation to try to have people  wear the microphones properly , if possible ,

because ,  um , the natural situation is really what we have with the microphones on the table.


because ,  um , the natural situation is really what we have with the microphones on the table.

I mean , I think ,  you know , in the target applications that we 're talking about , people aren't gonna be wearing head - mounted mikes anyway.


I mean , I think ,  you know , in the target applications that we 're talking about , people aren't gonna be wearing head - mounted mikes anyway.


I mean , I think ,  you know , in the target applications that we 're talking about , people aren't gonna be wearing head - mounted mikes anyway.

So this is just for u these head - mounted mikes are just for use with research.


So this is just for u these head - mounted mikes are just for use with research.


So this is just for u these head - mounted mikes are just for use with research.

And , uh , it 's gonna make  You know , if  if An - Andreas plays around with language modeling , he 's not gonna be m wanna be messed up by people breathing into the microphone.


And , uh , it 's gonna make  You know , if  if An - Andreas plays around with language modeling , he 's not gonna be m wanna be messed up by people breathing into the microphone.


And , uh , it 's gonna make  You know , if  if An - Andreas plays around with language modeling , he 's not gonna be m wanna be messed up by people breathing into the microphone.

Well , I 'll dig through the documentation to DragonDictate and ste s see if they still have the little  form.


Well , I 'll dig through the documentation to DragonDictate and ste s see if they still have the little  form.


It 's interesting , uh , I talked to some IBM guys , uh , last January , I think , I was there. And  so people who were working on the  on their ViaVoice dictation product.


It 's interesting , uh , I talked to some IBM guys , uh , last January , I think , I was there. And  so people who were working on the  on their ViaVoice dictation product.

And they said , uh , the breathing is really a  a terrible problem  for them , to  to not recognize breathing as speech.


And they said , uh , the breathing is really a  a terrible problem  for them , to  to not recognize breathing as speech.

So , anything to reduce breathing is  is  is a good thing.


So , anything to reduce breathing is  is  is a good thing.

Well , that 's the  It seemed to me when I was using Dragon that it was really microphone placement helped an  in , uh  an enormous amount.


Well , that 's the  It seemed to me when I was using Dragon that it was really microphone placement helped an  in , uh  an enormous amount.

So you want it enough to the side so that when you exhale through your nose , it doesn't  the wind doesn't hit the mike.


So you want it enough to the side so that when you exhale through your nose , it doesn't  the wind doesn't hit the mike.

And then , uh  Everyone 's adjusting their microphones , of course. And then just close enough so that you get good volume. So you know , wearing it right about here seems to be about the right way to do it.


And then , uh  Everyone 's adjusting their microphones , of course. And then just close enough so that you get good volume. So you know , wearing it right about here seems to be about the right way to do it.


I remember when I was  when I  I  I  I used , uh , um ,  a prominent laboratory 's , uh , uh , speech recognizer about ,  uh  This was , boy , this was a while ago , this was about twelve  twelve years ago or something. And , um , they were  they were perturbed with me because I was breathing in instead of breathing out. And they had models for  they   they had Markov models for br breathing out but they didn't have them for breathing in.


I remember when I was  when I  I  I  I used , uh , um ,  a prominent laboratory 's , uh , uh , speech recognizer about ,  uh  This was , boy , this was a while ago , this was about twelve  twelve years ago or something. And , um , they were  they were perturbed with me because I was breathing in instead of breathing out. And they had models for  they   they had Markov models for br breathing out but they didn't have them for breathing in.

That 's interesting. Well , what I wondered is whether it 's possible to have   to maybe use the display at the beginning


That 's interesting. Well , what I wondered is whether it 's possible to have   to maybe use the display at the beginning


That 's interesting. Well , what I wondered is whether it 's possible to have   to maybe use the display at the beginning

to be able to  to judge how  how correctly  I mean , have someone do some routine whatever , and  and then see if when they 're breathing it 's showing.


That 's interesting. Well , what I wondered is whether it 's possible to have   to maybe use the display at the beginning

to be able to  to judge how  how correctly  I mean , have someone do some routine whatever , and  and then see if when they 're breathing it 's showing.

I mean , when  when it 's on , you can see it.


to be able to  to judge how  how correctly  I mean , have someone do some routine whatever , and  and then see if when they 're breathing it 's showing.

I mean , when  when it 's on , you can see it.


I mean , when  when it 's on , you can see it.


And so , you know , I 've  I 've sat here and watched sometimes the breathing ,


And so , you know , I 've  I 've sat here and watched sometimes the breathing ,

and the bar going up and down , and I 'm thinking , I could say something , but


And so , you know , I 've  I 've sat here and watched sometimes the breathing ,

and the bar going up and down , and I 'm thinking , I could say something , but

I don't want to make people self - conscious. Stop breathing !


and the bar going up and down , and I 'm thinking , I could say something , but

I don't want to make people self - conscious. Stop breathing !


I don't want to make people self - conscious. Stop breathing !


I don't want to make people self - conscious. Stop breathing !

You 're not gonna get it perfect. And you can do some , uh , you know , first - order thing about it , which is to have people move it , uh , uh , a away from being just directly in front of the middle


You 're not gonna get it perfect. And you can do some , uh , you know , first - order thing about it , which is to have people move it , uh , uh , a away from being just directly in front of the middle


And then , you know , I think there 's not much  Because you can't al you know , interfere w you can't fine tune the meeting that much , I think.


That 's true. It just seems like i if something l simple like that can be tweaked  and the quality goes , you know , uh , dramatically up , then it might be worth  doing.


That 's true. It just seems like i if something l simple like that can be tweaked  and the quality goes , you know , uh , dramatically up , then it might be worth  doing.

Yep. And then also  the position of the mike also. If it 's more directly , you 'll get better volume. So  so , like , yours is pretty far down  below your mouth. Yeah.


That 's true. It just seems like i if something l simple like that can be tweaked  and the quality goes , you know , uh , dramatically up , then it might be worth  doing.

Yep. And then also  the position of the mike also. If it 's more directly , you 'll get better volume. So  so , like , yours is pretty far down  below your mouth. Yeah.

But  Mm - hmm. My  my feedback from the transcribers is he is always close to crystal clear and  and just fan fantastic to


Yep. And then also  the position of the mike also. If it 's more directly , you 'll get better volume. So  so , like , yours is pretty far down  below your mouth. Yeah.

But  Mm - hmm. My  my feedback from the transcribers is he is always close to crystal clear and  and just fan fantastic to


But  Mm - hmm. My  my feedback from the transcribers is he is always close to crystal clear and  and just fan fantastic to


Well , I mean , you  Yeah , of course. You 're  you 're also  uh , your volume is  is greater. But  but still , I mean , they  they say


Well , I mean , you  Yeah , of course. You 're  you 're also  uh , your volume is  is greater. But  but still , I mean , they  they say

I it makes their  their job extremely easy.


I it makes their  their job extremely easy.


I could say something about  about the  Well , I don't know what you wanna do. Yeah.


I could say something about  about the  Well , I don't know what you wanna do. Yeah.

About the transcribers or anything or  ? I don't know.


About the transcribers or anything or  ? I don't know.


One more remark , uh , concerning the SRI recognizer. Um. It is useful to transcribe and then ultimately train models for things like breath , and also laughter is very , very frequent and important to   to model.


mark very audible breaths and laughter especially ,


They 're putting  Eh , so in curly brackets they put " inhale " or " breath ".


They 're putting  Eh , so in curly brackets they put " inhale " or " breath ".

It  they  and then in curly brackets they say " laughter ". Now they 're   they 're not being  awfully precise , uh , m So they 're two types of laughter that are not being distinguished.


It  they  and then in curly brackets they say " laughter ". Now they 're   they 're not being  awfully precise , uh , m So they 're two types of laughter that are not being distinguished.


It  they  and then in curly brackets they say " laughter ". Now they 're   they 're not being  awfully precise , uh , m So they 're two types of laughter that are not being distinguished.

One is  when sometimes s someone will start laughing when they 're in the middle of a sentence.


One is  when sometimes s someone will start laughing when they 're in the middle of a sentence.

And  and then the other one is when they finish the sentence and then they laugh. So , um , I  I did s I did some double checking to look through  I mean ,  you 'd need to have extra  e extra complications , like time tags indicating the beginning and ending of   of the laughing through the utterance.


And  and then the other one is when they finish the sentence and then they laugh. So , um , I  I did s I did some double checking to look through  I mean ,  you 'd need to have extra  e extra complications , like time tags indicating the beginning and ending of   of the laughing through the utterance.

And that  and what they 're doing is in both cases just saying " curly brackets laughing " a after the unit.


And  and then the other one is when they finish the sentence and then they laugh. So , um , I  I did s I did some double checking to look through  I mean ,  you 'd need to have extra  e extra complications , like time tags indicating the beginning and ending of   of the laughing through the utterance.

And that  and what they 're doing is in both cases just saying " curly brackets laughing " a after the unit.

As  as long as there is an indication that there was laughter somewhere between  two words  I think that 's sufficient ,


And that  and what they 're doing is in both cases just saying " curly brackets laughing " a after the unit.

As  as long as there is an indication that there was laughter somewhere between  two words  I think that 's sufficient ,


As  as long as there is an indication that there was laughter somewhere between  two words  I think that 's sufficient ,

Against  they could do forced alignment.


Against  they could do forced alignment.


Against  they could do forced alignment.

because actually the recognition of laughter once you kn um  you know , is pretty good.


because actually the recognition of laughter once you kn um  you know , is pretty good.

So as long as you can stick a  you know , a t a tag in there that  that indicates that there was laughter ,


So as long as you can stick a  you know , a t a tag in there that  that indicates that there was laughter ,

that would probably be , uh , sufficient to train models.


that would probably be , uh , sufficient to train models.

That would be a really interesting  prosodic feature ,


That would be a really interesting  prosodic feature ,


That would be a really interesting  prosodic feature ,

And let me ask y and I gotta ask you one thing about that.


And let me ask y and I gotta ask you one thing about that.


And let me ask y and I gotta ask you one thing about that.

So , um , if they laugh between two words , you  you 'd get it in between the two words.


So , um , if they laugh between two words , you  you 'd get it in between the two words.


So , um , if they laugh between two words , you  you 'd get it in between the two words.

But if they laugh across three or four words you  you get it after those four words. Does that matter ?


But if they laugh across three or four words you  you get it after those four words. Does that matter ?

Well , the thing that you  is hard to deal with is whe  when they speak while laughing. Um , and that 's , uh  I don't think that we can do very well with that.


Well , the thing that you  is hard to deal with is whe  when they speak while laughing. Um , and that 's , uh  I don't think that we can do very well with that.


But , um , that 's not as frequent as just laughing between speaking ,


But , um , that 's not as frequent as just laughing between speaking ,

So are  do you treat breath and laughter as phonetically , or as word models , or what ?


So are  do you treat breath and laughter as phonetically , or as word models , or what ?


So are  do you treat breath and laughter as phonetically , or as word models , or what ?

Huh. I  I think it 's frequent in  in the meeting.


Huh. I  I think it 's frequent in  in the meeting.


Huh. I  I think it 's frequent in  in the meeting.

We tried both. Uh , currently , um , we use special words. There was a  there 's actually a word for  uh , it 's not just breathing but all kinds of mouth


We tried both. Uh , currently , um , we use special words. There was a  there 's actually a word for  uh , it 's not just breathing but all kinds of mouth

uh , mouth  mouth stuff. And then laughter is a  is a special word.


We tried both. Uh , currently , um , we use special words. There was a  there 's actually a word for  uh , it 's not just breathing but all kinds of mouth

uh , mouth  mouth stuff. And then laughter is a  is a special word.

How would we do that with the hybrid system ?


uh , mouth  mouth stuff. And then laughter is a  is a special word.

How would we do that with the hybrid system ?


How would we do that with the hybrid system ?

Same thing ? Yeah. Yeah. You ha Oh. And each of these words has a dedicated phone.


Same thing ? Yeah. Yeah. You ha Oh. And each of these words has a dedicated phone.


Same thing ? Yeah. Yeah. You ha Oh. And each of these words has a dedicated phone.

So the  so the  the mouth noise , uh , word has just a single phone , um , that is for that.


So the  so the  the mouth noise , uh , word has just a single phone , um , that is for that.

Right. So in the hybrid system we could train the net with a laughter phone and a breath sound phone.


Right. So in the hybrid system we could train the net with a laughter phone and a breath sound phone.

I mean , it 's  it 's  it 's always the same thing.


I mean , it 's  it 's  it 's always the same thing.


I mean , it 's  it 's  it 's always the same thing.

Right ? I mean , you could  you could say well , let   we now think that laughter should have three sub sub  sub - units in the  the three states , uh  different states.


Right ? I mean , you could  you could say well , let   we now think that laughter should have three sub sub  sub - units in the  the three states , uh  different states.

And then you would have three  I mean , you know , eh , eh , it 's u


And then you would have three  I mean , you know , eh , eh , it 's u

And the  the pronun the pronunciations  the pronunciations are l are somewhat non - standard.


And the  the pronun the pronunciations  the pronunciations are l are somewhat non - standard.


They actually are  uh , it 's just a single , s uh , you know , a single phone in the pronunciation , but it has a self - loop on it , so it can


They actually are  uh , it 's just a single , s uh , you know , a single phone in the pronunciation , but it has a self - loop on it , so it can

And how do you handle it in the language model ?


And how do you handle it in the language model ?


And how do you handle it in the language model ?

It 's just a word in the language model.


It 's just a word in the language model.


It 's just a word in the language model.

Yeah. We also tried ,  um , absorbing these  uh , both laughter and  and actually also noise , and , um


Yeah. We also tried ,  um , absorbing these  uh , both laughter and  and actually also noise , and , um


Yeah. We also tried ,  um , absorbing these  uh , both laughter and  and actually also noise , and , um

Yes. OK. Anyway. We also tried absorbing that into the pause model  I mean , the  the  the model that  that matches the stuff between words.


Yes. OK. Anyway. We also tried absorbing that into the pause model  I mean , the  the  the model that  that matches the stuff between words.


I just wanna mark that you did not read digits.


I just wanna mark that you did not read digits.

Good. You  you did get me to thinking about  I  I 'm not really sure which is more frequent , whether f f laughing  I think it may be an individual thing. Some people are more prone to laughing when they 're speaking.


Good. You  you did get me to thinking about  I  I 'm not really sure which is more frequent , whether f f laughing  I think it may be an individual thing. Some people are more prone to laughing when they 're speaking.

I was noticing that with Dan in the one that we , uh  we hand tran hand - segmented ,


I was noticing that with Dan in the one that we , uh  we hand tran hand - segmented ,


that  th he has these little chuckles as he talks.


that  th he has these little chuckles as he talks.

I 'm sure it 's very individual. And  and  one thing that c that we 're not doing , of course , is we 're not claiming to , uh , get  be getting a representation of mankind in these recordings. We have  this very , very tiny sample of  of


I 'm sure it 's very individual. And  and  one thing that c that we 're not doing , of course , is we 're not claiming to , uh , get  be getting a representation of mankind in these recordings. We have  this very , very tiny sample of  of


So , uh , who knows. Uh  Yeah. Why don why don't we just  since we 're on this vein , why don't we just continue with , uh , what you were gonna say about the transcriptions


So , uh , who knows. Uh  Yeah. Why don why don't we just  since we 're on this vein , why don't we just continue with , uh , what you were gonna say about the transcriptions

Um , um , the  I  I 'm really very for I 'm extremely fortunate with the people who , uh , applied and who are transcribing for us. They  are , um , um , uh really perceptive and very , um  and I 'm not just saying that cuz they might be hearing this.


Um , um , the  I  I 'm really very for I 'm extremely fortunate with the people who , uh , applied and who are transcribing for us. They  are , um , um , uh really perceptive and very , um  and I 'm not just saying that cuz they might be hearing this.

Cuz they 're gonna be transcribing it in a few days.


Um , um , the  I  I 'm really very for I 'm extremely fortunate with the people who , uh , applied and who are transcribing for us. They  are , um , um , uh really perceptive and very , um  and I 'm not just saying that cuz they might be hearing this.

Cuz they 're gonna be transcribing it in a few days.

No , they 're super. They 're  the they  very quick.


Cuz they 're gonna be transcribing it in a few days.

No , they 're super. They 're  the they  very quick.

Yeah , I know. I am  I 'm serious. They 're just super. So I , um , e you know , I  I brought them in and , um , trained them in pairs because I think people can raise questions


No , they 're super. They 're  the they  very quick.

Yeah , I know. I am  I 'm serious. They 're just super. So I , um , e you know , I  I brought them in and , um , trained them in pairs because I think people can raise questions


Yeah , I know. I am  I 'm serious. They 're just super. So I , um , e you know , I  I brought them in and , um , trained them in pairs because I think people can raise questions

you know , i i the they think about different things and they think of different  and um , I trained them to , uh , f on about a minute or two of the one that was already transcribed. This also gives me a sense of  You know , I can  I can use that later , with reference to inter - coder reliability kind of issues. But the main thing was to get them used to the conventions and ,  you know , the idea of the  th th the size of the unit versus how long it takes to play it back so these  th sort of calibration issues. And then , um , I just set them loose and they 're  they all have e a already background in using computers. They 're , um  they 're trained in linguistics.


you know , i i the they think about different things and they think of different  and um , I trained them to , uh , f on about a minute or two of the one that was already transcribed. This also gives me a sense of  You know , I can  I can use that later , with reference to inter - coder reliability kind of issues. But the main thing was to get them used to the conventions and ,  you know , the idea of the  th th the size of the unit versus how long it takes to play it back so these  th sort of calibration issues. And then , um , I just set them loose and they 're  they all have e a already background in using computers. They 're , um  they 're trained in linguistics.


Well , they they 're very perce they 'll  So one of them said " well , you know , he really said " n " , not really " and " ,


Well , they they 're very perce they 'll  So one of them said " well , you know , he really said " n " , not really " and " ,

so what   what should I do with that ? "


so what   what should I do with that ? "


I do have a convention. If it 's an  a noncanonical p " That one , I think we  you know , with Eric 's work , I sort of figure we  we can just treat that as a variant. But I told them if  if there 's an obvious speech error , uh , like I said in one thing ,


I do have a convention. If it 's an  a noncanonical p " That one , I think we  you know , with Eric 's work , I sort of figure we  we can just treat that as a variant. But I told them if  if there 's an obvious speech error , uh , like I said in one thing ,

and I gave my  my example , like I said , " microfon "  in instead of " microphone ". Didn't bother  I knew it when I said it. I remember s thinking " oh , that 's not correctly pronounced ". But it  but I thought  it 's not worth fixing cuz often when you 're speaking everybody knows what  what you mean.


and I gave my  my example , like I said , " microfon "  in instead of " microphone ". Didn't bother  I knew it when I said it. I remember s thinking " oh , that 's not correctly pronounced ". But it  but I thought  it 's not worth fixing cuz often when you 're speaking everybody knows what  what you mean.


and I gave my  my example , like I said , " microfon "  in instead of " microphone ". Didn't bother  I knew it when I said it. I remember s thinking " oh , that 's not correctly pronounced ". But it  but I thought  it 's not worth fixing cuz often when you 're speaking everybody knows what  what you mean.

But I have a convention that if it 's obviously a noncanonical pronunciation  a speech error with  you know , wi within the realm of resolution that you can tell in this native English  American English speaker , you know that I didn't mean to say " microfon. " Then you 'd put a little tick at the beginning of the word ,


But I have a convention that if it 's obviously a noncanonical pronunciation  a speech error with  you know , wi within the realm of resolution that you can tell in this native English  American English speaker , you know that I didn't mean to say " microfon. " Then you 'd put a little tick at the beginning of the word ,


But I have a convention that if it 's obviously a noncanonical pronunciation  a speech error with  you know , wi within the realm of resolution that you can tell in this native English  American English speaker , you know that I didn't mean to say " microfon. " Then you 'd put a little tick at the beginning of the word ,

and that just signals that , um , this is not standard , and then in curly brackets " pron  error ". And , um , and other than that , it 's w word level. But , you know , the fact that they noticed , you know , the " nnn ". " He said " nnn " , not " and ". What shall I do with that ? " I mean , they 're very perceptive. And  and s several of them are trained in IPA. C they really could do phonetic transcription if  if we wanted them to.


But I have a convention that if it 's obviously a noncanonical pronunciation  a speech error with  you know , wi within the realm of resolution that you can tell in this native English  American English speaker , you know that I didn't mean to say " microfon. " Then you 'd put a little tick at the beginning of the word ,

and that just signals that , um , this is not standard , and then in curly brackets " pron  error ". And , um , and other than that , it 's w word level. But , you know , the fact that they noticed , you know , the " nnn ". " He said " nnn " , not " and ". What shall I do with that ? " I mean , they 're very perceptive. And  and s several of them are trained in IPA. C they really could do phonetic transcription if  if we wanted them to.

Mm - hmm. Right. Well   Well , you know , it might be something we 'd wanna do with some , uh , s small subset  of the whole thing.


and that just signals that , um , this is not standard , and then in curly brackets " pron  error ". And , um , and other than that , it 's w word level. But , you know , the fact that they noticed , you know , the " nnn ". " He said " nnn " , not " and ". What shall I do with that ? " I mean , they 're very perceptive. And  and s several of them are trained in IPA. C they really could do phonetic transcription if  if we wanted them to.

Mm - hmm. Right. Well   Well , you know , it might be something we 'd wanna do with some , uh , s small subset  of the whole thing.

Hmm. Where were they when  we needed them ?


Mm - hmm. Right. Well   Well , you know , it might be something we 'd wanna do with some , uh , s small subset  of the whole thing.

Hmm. Where were they when  we needed them ?

We certainly wouldn't wanna do it with everything.


Hmm. Where were they when  we needed them ?

We certainly wouldn't wanna do it with everything.

And I 'm also thinking these people are a terrific pool. I mean , if , uh  so I  I told them that , um , we don't know if this will continue past the end of the month


We certainly wouldn't wanna do it with everything.

And I 'm also thinking these people are a terrific pool. I mean , if , uh  so I  I told them that , um , we don't know if this will continue past the end of the month


We certainly wouldn't wanna do it with everything.

And I 'm also thinking these people are a terrific pool. I mean , if , uh  so I  I told them that , um , we don't know if this will continue past the end of the month

and I also  m I think they know that the data p source is limited and I may not be able to keep them employed till the end of the month even , although I hope to.


And I 'm also thinking these people are a terrific pool. I mean , if , uh  so I  I told them that , um , we don't know if this will continue past the end of the month

and I also  m I think they know that the data p source is limited and I may not be able to keep them employed till the end of the month even , although I hope to.

The other thing we could do , actually , uh , is , uh , use them for a more detailed analysis of the overlaps.


and I also  m I think they know that the data p source is limited and I may not be able to keep them employed till the end of the month even , although I hope to.

The other thing we could do , actually , uh , is , uh , use them for a more detailed analysis of the overlaps.

And  Oh , that 'd be so super. They would be so  s so terrific.


and I also  m I think they know that the data p source is limited and I may not be able to keep them employed till the end of the month even , although I hope to.

The other thing we could do , actually , uh , is , uh , use them for a more detailed analysis of the overlaps.

And  Oh , that 'd be so super. They would be so  s so terrific.

I mean , this was something that we were talking about.


The other thing we could do , actually , uh , is , uh , use them for a more detailed analysis of the overlaps.

And  Oh , that 'd be so super. They would be so  s so terrific.

I mean , this was something that we were talking about.


And  Oh , that 'd be so super. They would be so  s so terrific.

I mean , this was something that we were talking about.

We could get a very detailed overlap if they were willing to transcribe each meeting four or five times. Right ? One for each participant. So they could by hand


I mean , this was something that we were talking about.

We could get a very detailed overlap if they were willing to transcribe each meeting four or five times. Right ? One for each participant. So they could by hand


We could get a very detailed overlap if they were willing to transcribe each meeting four or five times. Right ? One for each participant. So they could by hand


We could get a very detailed overlap if they were willing to transcribe each meeting four or five times. Right ? One for each participant. So they could by hand

But I 've been saying the other thing is just go through it for the overlaps.


But I 've been saying the other thing is just go through it for the overlaps.


Given that y and  and do  so instead of doing phonetic , uh , uh , transcription for the whole thing ,


Given that y and  and do  so instead of doing phonetic , uh , uh , transcription for the whole thing ,

which  we know from the  Steve 's experience with the Switchboard transcription is , you know , very , very time - consuming. And   and you know , it took them I don't know how many months to do  to get four hours. And so  that hasn't been really our focus. Uh , we can consider it. But , I mean , the other thing is since we 've been spending so much time thinking about overlaps is  is maybe get a much more detailed analysis of the overlaps.


which  we know from the  Steve 's experience with the Switchboard transcription is , you know , very , very time - consuming. And   and you know , it took them I don't know how many months to do  to get four hours. And so  that hasn't been really our focus. Uh , we can consider it. But , I mean , the other thing is since we 've been spending so much time thinking about overlaps is  is maybe get a much more detailed analysis of the overlaps.


which  we know from the  Steve 's experience with the Switchboard transcription is , you know , very , very time - consuming. And   and you know , it took them I don't know how many months to do  to get four hours. And so  that hasn't been really our focus. Uh , we can consider it. But , I mean , the other thing is since we 've been spending so much time thinking about overlaps is  is maybe get a much more detailed analysis of the overlaps.

But anyway , I 'm  I 'm open to c our consideration.


But anyway , I 'm  I 'm open to c our consideration.


I 'm open to every consideration of  what are some other kinds of detailed analysis that would be most useful.


I  I  I think  this year we  we actually , uh , can do it.


I  I  I think  this year we  we actually , uh , can do it.

It 's a  we have  we have  due to @ @  variations in funding we have  we seem to be doing , uh , very well on m money for this  this year , and  next year we may have  have much less.


It 's a  we have  we have  due to @ @  variations in funding we have  we seem to be doing , uh , very well on m money for this  this year , and  next year we may have  have much less.


Uh , I mean , calendar year two thousand one.


Uh , I mean , calendar year two thousand one.

Yeah. So it 's  uh , it 's  we don't wanna hire a bunch of people , a long - term staff ,


Yeah. So it 's  uh , it 's  we don't wanna hire a bunch of people , a long - term staff ,


Yeah. So it 's  uh , it 's  we don't wanna hire a bunch of people , a long - term staff ,

because  the  the funding that we 've gotten is sort of a big chunk for this year. But  having  temporary people doing some specific thing that we need is actually a perfect match to that kind of , uh , funding.


because  the  the funding that we 've gotten is sort of a big chunk for this year. But  having  temporary people doing some specific thing that we need is actually a perfect match to that kind of , uh , funding.


because  the  the funding that we 've gotten is sort of a big chunk for this year. But  having  temporary people doing some specific thing that we need is actually a perfect match to that kind of , uh , funding.

And then school will start in  in the sixt on the sixteenth.


And then school will start in  in the sixt on the sixteenth.


And then school will start in  in the sixt on the sixteenth.

Some of them will have to cut back their hours at that point.


Some of them will have to cut back their hours at that point.

Are they working full - time now , or  ?


Are they working full - time now , or  ?


Are they working full - time now , or  ?

Yeah. Well , why do I wouldn't say forty - hour weeks. No. But what I mean is  Oh , I shouldn't say it that way because  that does sound like forty - hour weeks. No. I th I  I would say they 're probably   they don't have o they don't have other things that are taking away their time.


Yeah. Well , why do I wouldn't say forty - hour weeks. No. But what I mean is  Oh , I shouldn't say it that way because  that does sound like forty - hour weeks. No. I th I  I would say they 're probably   they don't have o they don't have other things that are taking away their time.

I don't see how someone could do forty hours a week on transcription.


I don't see how someone could do forty hours a week on transcription.


No. You 're right. It 's  i it would be too taxing. But , um , they 're putting  in a lot of


No. You 're right. It 's  i it would be too taxing. But , um , they 're putting  in a lot of

I  I  I haven't checked them all , but  just spot - checking. They 're fantastic.


I  I  I haven't checked them all , but  just spot - checking. They 're fantastic.


I  I  I haven't checked them all , but  just spot - checking. They 're fantastic.

I remember when we were transcribing BeRP , uh , uh ,  uh , Ron Kay , uh , volunteered to  to do some of that. And , he was  the first  first stuff he did was transcribing Chuck. And he 's saying " You  you know , I always thought Chuck spoke really well. "


I  I  I haven't checked them all , but  just spot - checking. They 're fantastic.

I remember when we were transcribing BeRP , uh , uh ,  uh , Ron Kay , uh , volunteered to  to do some of that. And , he was  the first  first stuff he did was transcribing Chuck. And he 's saying " You  you know , I always thought Chuck spoke really well. "

Yeah. Yeah. Well , you know , and I also thought , y Liz has this , eh , you know , and I do also , this  this interest in the types of overlaps that are involved. These people would be  great choices for doing coding of that type if we wanted ,


I remember when we were transcribing BeRP , uh , uh ,  uh , Ron Kay , uh , volunteered to  to do some of that. And , he was  the first  first stuff he did was transcribing Chuck. And he 's saying " You  you know , I always thought Chuck spoke really well. "

Yeah. Yeah. Well , you know , and I also thought , y Liz has this , eh , you know , and I do also , this  this interest in the types of overlaps that are involved. These people would be  great choices for doing coding of that type if we wanted ,


Yeah. Yeah. Well , you know , and I also thought , y Liz has this , eh , you know , and I do also , this  this interest in the types of overlaps that are involved. These people would be  great choices for doing coding of that type if we wanted ,


I think it would also be interesting to have , uh , a couple of the meetings have more than one transcriber do ,


I think it would also be interesting to have , uh , a couple of the meetings have more than one transcriber do ,

cuz I 'm curious about inter - annotator agreement.


cuz I 'm curious about inter - annotator agreement.


cuz I 'm curious about inter - annotator agreement.

OK. Yeah. Th - that 'd be  I think that 's a  a good idea.


OK. Yeah. Th - that 'd be  I think that 's a  a good idea.


OK. Yeah. Th - that 'd be  I think that 's a  a good idea.

You know , there 's also , the e In my mind , I think A An - Andreas was  leading to this topic , the idea that , um ,  we haven't yet seen the  the type of transcript that we get from IBM , and it may just be , you know , pristine. But on the other hand , given the lesser interface  Cuz this is , you know  we 've got a good interface , we 've got great headphones , m um


OK. Yeah. Th - that 'd be  I think that 's a  a good idea.

You know , there 's also , the e In my mind , I think A An - Andreas was  leading to this topic , the idea that , um ,  we haven't yet seen the  the type of transcript that we get from IBM , and it may just be , you know , pristine. But on the other hand , given the lesser interface  Cuz this is , you know  we 've got a good interface , we 've got great headphones , m um

It could be that they will uh  theirs will end up being a kind of fir first pass or something.


You know , there 's also , the e In my mind , I think A An - Andreas was  leading to this topic , the idea that , um ,  we haven't yet seen the  the type of transcript that we get from IBM , and it may just be , you know , pristine. But on the other hand , given the lesser interface  Cuz this is , you know  we 've got a good interface , we 've got great headphones , m um

It could be that they will uh  theirs will end up being a kind of fir first pass or something.


You know , there 's also , the e In my mind , I think A An - Andreas was  leading to this topic , the idea that , um ,  we haven't yet seen the  the type of transcript that we get from IBM , and it may just be , you know , pristine. But on the other hand , given the lesser interface  Cuz this is , you know  we 've got a good interface , we 've got great headphones , m um

It could be that they will uh  theirs will end up being a kind of fir first pass or something.

Maybe an elaborate one , cuz again they probably are gonna do these alignments , which will also clear things up.


It could be that they will uh  theirs will end up being a kind of fir first pass or something.

Maybe an elaborate one , cuz again they probably are gonna do these alignments , which will also clear things up.

That 's  that 's true. Al - although you have to s Don't you have to start with a close enough approximation  of the  of the verbal part  to be able to  ?


Maybe an elaborate one , cuz again they probably are gonna do these alignments , which will also clear things up.

That 's  that 's true. Al - although you have to s Don't you have to start with a close enough approximation  of the  of the verbal part  to be able to  ?


That 's  that 's true. Al - although you have to s Don't you have to start with a close enough approximation  of the  of the verbal part  to be able to  ?

Right ? I mean , so the  so the argument is that if your statistical system is good  it will in fact , uh , clean things up.


Right ? I mean , so the  so the argument is that if your statistical system is good  it will in fact , uh , clean things up.


Right ? I mean , so the  so the argument is that if your statistical system is good  it will in fact , uh , clean things up.

Right ? So it it 's got its own objective criterion.


Right ? So it it 's got its own objective criterion.

And , uh , so in principle you could start up with something that was kind of rough  I mean , to give an example of , um , something we used to do , uh , at one point , uh , back  back when Chuck was here in early times , is we would take , um ,  da take a word and , uh , have a canonical pronunciation and , uh , if there was five phones in a word ,  you 'd break up the word ,  uh , into five equal - length pieces which is completely gross.


And , uh , so in principle you could start up with something that was kind of rough  I mean , to give an example of , um , something we used to do , uh , at one point , uh , back  back when Chuck was here in early times , is we would take , um ,  da take a word and , uh , have a canonical pronunciation and , uh , if there was five phones in a word ,  you 'd break up the word ,  uh , into five equal - length pieces which is completely gross.


And , uh , so in principle you could start up with something that was kind of rough  I mean , to give an example of , um , something we used to do , uh , at one point , uh , back  back when Chuck was here in early times , is we would take , um ,  da take a word and , uh , have a canonical pronunciation and , uh , if there was five phones in a word ,  you 'd break up the word ,  uh , into five equal - length pieces which is completely gross.

Right ? I mean , th the timing is off  all over the place in just about any word.


Right ? I mean , th the timing is off  all over the place in just about any word.


Right ? I mean , th the timing is off  all over the place in just about any word.

But it 's O K. You start off with that and the statistical system then aligns things , and eventually you get something that doesn't really look too bad.


But it 's O K. You start off with that and the statistical system then aligns things , and eventually you get something that doesn't really look too bad.

So  so I think using a  a good  aligner , um , actually can  can help a lot. Um.  But , uh , you know , they both help each other. If you have a  if you have a better starting point , then it helps the aligner. If you have a good alignment , it helps the , uh , th the human in  in taking less time to correct things.


So  so I think using a  a good  aligner , um , actually can  can help a lot. Um.  But , uh , you know , they both help each other. If you have a  if you have a better starting point , then it helps the aligner. If you have a good alignment , it helps the , uh , th the human in  in taking less time to correct things.


So  so I think using a  a good  aligner , um , actually can  can help a lot. Um.  But , uh , you know , they both help each other. If you have a  if you have a better starting point , then it helps the aligner. If you have a good alignment , it helps the , uh , th the human in  in taking less time to correct things.

Excellent. I guess there 's another aspect , too , and I don't know  uh , this  this is  very possibly a different , uh , topic. But ,  uh , just let me say  with reference to this idea of , um ,  higher - order organization within meetings. So like in a  you know , the topics that are covered during a meeting with reference to the other , uh , uses of the data ,


Excellent. I guess there 's another aspect , too , and I don't know  uh , this  this is  very possibly a different , uh , topic. But ,  uh , just let me say  with reference to this idea of , um ,  higher - order organization within meetings. So like in a  you know , the topics that are covered during a meeting with reference to the other , uh , uses of the data ,


Excellent. I guess there 's another aspect , too , and I don't know  uh , this  this is  very possibly a different , uh , topic. But ,  uh , just let me say  with reference to this idea of , um ,  higher - order organization within meetings. So like in a  you know , the topics that are covered during a meeting with reference to the other , uh , uses of the data ,

so being able to  find where so - and - so talked about such - and - such , then , um , um  e I mean , I  I  I did sort of a   a rough  pass  on encoding , like , episode - like level things on the , uh , transcribed meeting


so being able to  find where so - and - so talked about such - and - such , then , um , um  e I mean , I  I  I did sort of a   a rough  pass  on encoding , like , episode - like level things on the , uh , transcribed meeting

already transcribed meeting. And I don't know if , um


already transcribed meeting. And I don't know if , um

where  that  i if that 's something that we wanna do with each meeting , sort of like a , um  it 's like a manifest , when you get a box full of stuff , or  or if that 's , um


where  that  i if that 's something that we wanna do with each meeting , sort of like a , um  it 's like a manifest , when you get a box full of stuff , or  or if that 's , um

I mean , i I  I don't know what uh , level of detail would be most useful. I don't know i if that 's something that  I should do when I look over it , or if we want someone else to do , or whatever.


I mean , i I  I don't know what uh , level of detail would be most useful. I don't know i if that 's something that  I should do when I look over it , or if we want someone else to do , or whatever.

But this issue of the contents of the meeting in an outline form. OK.


But this issue of the contents of the meeting in an outline form. OK.

I think it just  whoever is interested can do that. I mean , so if someone wants to use that data


I think it just  whoever is interested can do that. I mean , so if someone wants to use that data


eh , was  p Well , you know , the thing I 'm concerned about is we wanted to do these digits


eh , was  p Well , you know , the thing I 'm concerned about is we wanted to do these digits

and  and I haven't heard , uh , from Jose yet.


and  and I haven't heard , uh , from Jose yet.


Uh  I  I  I think it  you know , another  another bunch of digits. More data is good.


Uh  I  I  I think it  you know , another  another bunch of digits. More data is good.

So  so I 'd like to do that. But I think , do you , maybe , eh  ? Did you prepare some whole thing you wanted us just to see ?


So  so I 'd like to do that. But I think , do you , maybe , eh  ? Did you prepare some whole thing you wanted us just to see ?


I  I think it 's  it 's fast , because , uh , I have the results , eh , of the study of different energy without the law length. Eh , um , eh , in the  in the measurement , uh , the average , uh , dividing by the  by the , um , variance. Um , I  th i


I  I think it 's  it 's fast , because , uh , I have the results , eh , of the study of different energy without the law length. Eh , um , eh , in the  in the measurement , uh , the average , uh , dividing by the  by the , um , variance. Um , I  th i

the other , uh  the  the last w uh , meeting  eh , I don't know if you remain we have problem to  with the   with  with the parameter  with the representations of parameter , because the  the valleys and the peaks in the signal , eh , look like , eh , it doesn't follow to the  to the energy in the signal.


the other , uh  the  the last w uh , meeting  eh , I don't know if you remain we have problem to  with the   with  with the parameter  with the representations of parameter , because the  the valleys and the peaks in the signal , eh , look like , eh , it doesn't follow to the  to the energy in the signal.

And it was a problem , uh , with the scale.


And it was a problem , uh , with the scale.


Eh , and I  I change the scale and we can see the  the variance.


Eh , and I  I change the scale and we can see the  the variance.

OK. But the bottom line is it 's still not , uh , separating out very well.


OK. But the bottom line is it 's still not , uh , separating out very well.

The distribution  the distribution is  is similar.


The distribution  the distribution is  is similar.

OK. So that 's  that 's  that 's enough then. OK.


The distribution  the distribution is  is similar.

OK. So that 's  that 's  that 's enough then. OK.

No , I mean , that there 's no point in going through all of that if that 's the bottom line , really.


OK. So that 's  that 's  that 's enough then. OK.

No , I mean , that there 's no point in going through all of that if that 's the bottom line , really.


No , I mean , that there 's no point in going through all of that if that 's the bottom line , really.


So , I  I think we have to start  Uh , I mean , there there 's two suggestions , really , which is , uh  what we said before is that ,


So , I  I think we have to start  Uh , I mean , there there 's two suggestions , really , which is , uh  what we said before is that ,

um , it looks like , at least that you haven't found an obvious way to normalize so that the energy is anything like a reliable , uh , indicator of the overlap.


um , it looks like , at least that you haven't found an obvious way to normalize so that the energy is anything like a reliable , uh , indicator of the overlap.

Um , I  I 'm  I 'm still  a little f think that 's a little funny. These things l @ @ seems like there should be ,


Um , I  I 'm  I 'm still  a little f think that 's a little funny. These things l @ @ seems like there should be ,

but   but you don't want to keep , uh  keep knocking at it if it 's  if you 're not getting any  any result with that. But , I mean , the other things that we talked about is , uh ,  pitch - related things and harmonicity - related things ,


but   but you don't want to keep , uh  keep knocking at it if it 's  if you 're not getting any  any result with that. But , I mean , the other things that we talked about is , uh ,  pitch - related things and harmonicity - related things ,

so  which we thought also should be some kind of a reasonable indicator. Um  But , uh , a completely different tack on it wou is the one that was suggested , uh , by your colleagues in Spain ,


so  which we thought also should be some kind of a reasonable indicator. Um  But , uh , a completely different tack on it wou is the one that was suggested , uh , by your colleagues in Spain ,

which is to say , don't worry so much about the , uh , features.


which is to say , don't worry so much about the , uh , features.

That is to say , use , you know , as  as you 're doing with the speech , uh , nonspeech , use some very general features.


That is to say , use , you know , as  as you 're doing with the speech , uh , nonspeech , use some very general features.


That is to say , use , you know , as  as you 're doing with the speech , uh , nonspeech , use some very general features.

And , uh , then , uh , look at it more from the aspect of modeling.


And , uh , then , uh , look at it more from the aspect of modeling.


And , uh , then , uh , look at it more from the aspect of modeling.

You know , have a  have a couple Markov models and  and , uh , try to indi try to determine , you know , w when is th when are you in an overlap , when are you not in an overlap.


You know , have a  have a couple Markov models and  and , uh , try to indi try to determine , you know , w when is th when are you in an overlap , when are you not in an overlap.

And let the , uh , uh , statistical system  determine what 's the right way to look at the data.


And let the , uh , uh , statistical system  determine what 's the right way to look at the data.

I  I , um , I think it would be interesting to find individual features and put them together. I think that you 'd end up with a better system overall.


I  I , um , I think it would be interesting to find individual features and put them together. I think that you 'd end up with a better system overall.

But given the limitation in time  and given the fact that Javier 's system already exists  doing this sort of thing ,


But given the limitation in time  and given the fact that Javier 's system already exists  doing this sort of thing ,

uh , but , uh , its main limitation is that , again , it 's only looking at silences which would


uh , but , uh , its main limitation is that , again , it 's only looking at silences which would


I  I  I think that , eh , the possibility , eh , can be that , eh , Thilo , eh , working , eh , with a new class , not only , eh , nonspeech and speech , but , eh , in  in  in the speech class ,


I  I  I think that , eh , the possibility , eh , can be that , eh , Thilo , eh , working , eh , with a new class , not only , eh , nonspeech and speech , but , eh , in  in  in the speech class ,

dividing , eh , speech , eh , of  from a speaker and overlapping , to try  to  to do , eh , eh , a fast  a fast , eh ,  experiment to  to prove that , nnn , this fea eh , general feature ,  eh , can solve the  the  the problem ,


dividing , eh , speech , eh , of  from a speaker and overlapping , to try  to  to do , eh , eh , a fast  a fast , eh ,  experiment to  to prove that , nnn , this fea eh , general feature ,  eh , can solve the  the  the problem ,


And , I  I have prepared the  the pitch tracker now.


And , I  I have prepared the  the pitch tracker now.

And I hope the  the next week I will have , eh , some results and we  we will show  we will see , eh , the  the parameter  the pitch ,  eh , tracking in  with the program.


And I hope the  the next week I will have , eh , some results and we  we will show  we will see , eh , the  the parameter  the pitch ,  eh , tracking in  with the program.


And I hope the  the next week I will have , eh , some results and we  we will show  we will see , eh , the  the parameter  the pitch ,  eh , tracking in  with the program.

Ha - h have you ever looked at the , uh , uh  Javier 's , uh , speech segmenter ?


Ha - h have you ever looked at the , uh , uh  Javier 's , uh , speech segmenter ?


Ha - h have you ever looked at the , uh , uh  Javier 's , uh , speech segmenter ?

Oh. Maybe m you could , you kn uh show Thilo that.


Oh. Maybe m you could , you kn uh show Thilo that.


Cuz again the idea is there  the limitation there again was that he was  he was only using it to look at silence as a  as a  as a  as a p putative split point between speakers.


Cuz again the idea is there  the limitation there again was that he was  he was only using it to look at silence as a  as a  as a  as a p putative split point between speakers.

But if you included , uh , broadened classes then  in principle maybe you can  cover the overlap cases.


But if you included , uh , broadened classes then  in principle maybe you can  cover the overlap cases.


But if you included , uh , broadened classes then  in principle maybe you can  cover the overlap cases.

Yeah , but I 'm not too sure if  if we can  really represent  overlap with  with the s  detector I  I  I used up to now ,


Yeah , but I 'm not too sure if  if we can  really represent  overlap with  with the s  detector I  I  I used up to now ,


it 's only speech or it 's  it 's  it 's nonspeech.


It doesn't have the same Gaus - uh , H M M modeling ,


Right ? It 's  it 's just  it 's just a  isn't it just a Gaussian


Right ? It 's  it 's just  it 's just a  isn't it just a Gaussian

Yeah. And then  he ch you choose optimal splitting.


Yeah. And then  he ch you choose optimal splitting.


Yeah. And then  he ch you choose optimal splitting.

Yeah. Oh , it doesn't have  it doesn't have any temporal , uh  ?


Yeah. Oh , it doesn't have  it doesn't have any temporal , uh  ?

Maybe I 'm misremembering , but I did not think it had a Markov


Yeah. Oh , it doesn't have  it doesn't have any temporal , uh  ?

Maybe I 'm misremembering , but I did not think it had a Markov

I thought it  Yeah. I gues I guess I don't remember either. Uh. It 's been a while.


Maybe I 'm misremembering , but I did not think it had a Markov

I thought it  Yeah. I gues I guess I don't remember either. Uh. It 's been a while.


I thought it  Yeah. I gues I guess I don't remember either. Uh. It 's been a while.


You mean Ja - eh , eh , Javier program ?


You mean Ja - eh , eh , Javier program ?

No , Javier di doesn't worked with , uh , a Markov


No , Javier di doesn't worked with , uh , a Markov


No , Javier di doesn't worked with , uh , a Markov

Oh , OK. So he 's just  he just computes a Gaussian over potential


Oh , OK. So he 's just  he just computes a Gaussian over potential


And so I  I think it would work fine for detecting overlap.


And so I  I think it would work fine for detecting overlap.

It 's just , uh , that i it  he has the two - pass issue that  What he does is , as a first pass he  he  p he does , um , a guess at where the divisions might be and he overestimates. And that 's just a data reduction step , so that you 're not trying at every time interval.


It 's just , uh , that i it  he has the two - pass issue that  What he does is , as a first pass he  he  p he does , um , a guess at where the divisions might be and he overestimates. And that 's just a data reduction step , so that you 're not trying at every time interval.


It 's just , uh , that i it  he has the two - pass issue that  What he does is , as a first pass he  he  p he does , um , a guess at where the divisions might be and he overestimates. And that 's just a data reduction step , so that you 're not trying at every time interval.

And so those are the putative  places where he tries.


And so those are the putative  places where he tries.


And so those are the putative  places where he tries.

And right now he 's doing that with silence and that doesn't work with the Meeting Recorder. So if we used another method to get the first pass , I think it would probably work.


And right now he 's doing that with silence and that doesn't work with the Meeting Recorder. So if we used another method to get the first pass , I think it would probably work.


And right now he 's doing that with silence and that doesn't work with the Meeting Recorder. So if we used another method to get the first pass , I think it would probably work.

It 's a good method. As long as the len as long the segments are long enough.


It 's a good method. As long as the len as long the segments are long enough.


O - k OK. So let me go back to what you had , though.


The other thing one could do is  Couldn't  I mean , it 's  So you have two categories


The other thing one could do is  Couldn't  I mean , it 's  So you have two categories

and you have Markov models for each. Couldn't you have a third category ? So you have , uh  you have ,  uh , nonspeech , single - person speech , and multiple - person speech ?


The other thing one could do is  Couldn't  I mean , it 's  So you have two categories

and you have Markov models for each. Couldn't you have a third category ? So you have , uh  you have ,  uh , nonspeech , single - person speech , and multiple - person speech ?

He has this on his board actually. Don't you have , like those  those several different  categories on the board ?


and you have Markov models for each. Couldn't you have a third category ? So you have , uh  you have ,  uh , nonspeech , single - person speech , and multiple - person speech ?

He has this on his board actually. Don't you have , like those  those several different  categories on the board ?

Right ? And then you have a Markov model for each ?


and you have Markov models for each. Couldn't you have a third category ? So you have , uh  you have ,  uh , nonspeech , single - person speech , and multiple - person speech ?

He has this on his board actually. Don't you have , like those  those several different  categories on the board ?

Right ? And then you have a Markov model for each ?

Um  I 'm not sure. I  I thought about , uh , adding , uh , uh , another class too. But it 's not too easy , I think , the  the transition between the different class , to model them in  in the system I have now. But it  it  it could be possible , I think ,


He has this on his board actually. Don't you have , like those  those several different  categories on the board ?

Right ? And then you have a Markov model for each ?

Um  I 'm not sure. I  I thought about , uh , adding , uh , uh , another class too. But it 's not too easy , I think , the  the transition between the different class , to model them in  in the system I have now. But it  it  it could be possible , I think ,


Right ? And then you have a Markov model for each ?

Um  I 'm not sure. I  I thought about , uh , adding , uh , uh , another class too. But it 's not too easy , I think , the  the transition between the different class , to model them in  in the system I have now. But it  it  it could be possible , I think ,


Um  I 'm not sure. I  I thought about , uh , adding , uh , uh , another class too. But it 's not too easy , I think , the  the transition between the different class , to model them in  in the system I have now. But it  it  it could be possible , I think ,

Yeah , I mean , I  This is all pretty gross.


Yeah , I mean , I  This is all pretty gross.


Yeah , I mean , I  This is all pretty gross.

I mean , the  th the reason why , uh , I was suggesting originally that we look at features is because I thought , well , we 're doing something we haven't done before ,


I mean , the  th the reason why , uh , I was suggesting originally that we look at features is because I thought , well , we 're doing something we haven't done before ,

we should at least look at the space and understand


we should at least look at the space and understand


we should at least look at the space and understand

It seems like if two people  two or more people talk at once , it should get louder ,


It seems like if two people  two or more people talk at once , it should get louder ,


It seems like if two people  two or more people talk at once , it should get louder ,

uh , and , uh , uh , there should be some discontinuity in pitch contours ,


uh , and , uh , uh , there should be some discontinuity in pitch contours ,


and , uh , there should overall be a , um , smaller proportion of the total energy that is explained by any particular harmonic  sequence in the spectrum.


and , uh , there should overall be a , um , smaller proportion of the total energy that is explained by any particular harmonic  sequence in the spectrum.

So those are all things that should be there.


So those are all things that should be there.


So those are all things that should be there.

So far , um , uh , Jose has  has been  By the way , I was told I should be calling you Pepe , but


So far , um , uh , Jose has  has been  By the way , I was told I should be calling you Pepe , but


um , uh , the  has  has , uh , been exploring , uh , e largely the energy issue and , um , as with a lot of things , it is not  uh , like this , it 's not as simple as it sounds.


um , uh , the  has  has , uh , been exploring , uh , e largely the energy issue and , um , as with a lot of things , it is not  uh , like this , it 's not as simple as it sounds.

And then there 's , you know  Is it energy ? Is it log energy ? Is it LPC residual energy ? Is it  is it   is it , uh , delta of those things ? Uh , what is it no Obviously , just a simple number   absolute number isn't gonna work. So  it should be with  compared to what ? Should there be a long window for the  normalizing factor and a short window for what you 're looking at ?


And then there 's , you know  Is it energy ? Is it log energy ? Is it LPC residual energy ? Is it  is it   is it , uh , delta of those things ? Uh , what is it no Obviously , just a simple number   absolute number isn't gonna work. So  it should be with  compared to what ? Should there be a long window for the  normalizing factor and a short window for what you 're looking at ?

Or , you know , how b short should they be ? So ,


Or , you know , how b short should they be ? So ,

th he 's been playing around with a lot of these different things and  and so far at least has not come up with  any combination that really gave you an indicator.


th he 's been playing around with a lot of these different things and  and so far at least has not come up with  any combination that really gave you an indicator.

So I  I still have a hunch that there 's  it 's in there some place , but it may be  given that you have a limited time here , it  it just may not be the best thing to   to  to focus on for the remaining of it.


So I  I still have a hunch that there 's  it 's in there some place , but it may be  given that you have a limited time here , it  it just may not be the best thing to   to  to focus on for the remaining of it.

So pitch - related and harmonic - related , I 'm  I 'm  somewhat more hopeful for it.


So pitch - related and harmonic - related , I 'm  I 'm  somewhat more hopeful for it.

But it seems like if we just wanna get something to work ,


But it seems like if we just wanna get something to work ,


But it seems like if we just wanna get something to work ,

that , uh , their suggestion of  of  Th - they were suggesting going to Markov models , uh , but in addition there 's an expansion of what Javier did. And one of those things , looking at the statistical component ,


that , uh , their suggestion of  of  Th - they were suggesting going to Markov models , uh , but in addition there 's an expansion of what Javier did. And one of those things , looking at the statistical component ,


that , uh , their suggestion of  of  Th - they were suggesting going to Markov models , uh , but in addition there 's an expansion of what Javier did. And one of those things , looking at the statistical component ,

even if the features that you give it are maybe not ideal for it , it 's just sort of this general filter bank


even if the features that you give it are maybe not ideal for it , it 's just sort of this general filter bank


even if the features that you give it are maybe not ideal for it , it 's just sort of this general filter bank

or   or cepstrum or something , um  Eee  it 's in there somewhere probably.


even if the features that you give it are maybe not ideal for it , it 's just sort of this general filter bank

or   or cepstrum or something , um  Eee  it 's in there somewhere probably.

But , eh , what did you think about the possibility of using the Javier software ? Eh , I mean , the , uh  the , uh  the BIC criterion , the  the  t to train the  the Gaussian , eh , using the  the mark , eh , by hand , eh , eh , to distinguish be mmm , to train overlapping zone and speech zone. I mean , eh ,  I  I  I think that an interesting , eh , experiment , eh , could be , th eh , to prove that , mmm , if s we suppose that , eh , the  the first step   I mean , the  the classifier what were the classifier from Javier or classifier from Thilo ? W What happen with the second step ? I  I mean , what  what happen with the , eh  the , uh , clu the , uh  the clu the clustering process ?


or   or cepstrum or something , um  Eee  it 's in there somewhere probably.

But , eh , what did you think about the possibility of using the Javier software ? Eh , I mean , the , uh  the , uh  the BIC criterion , the  the  t to train the  the Gaussian , eh , using the  the mark , eh , by hand , eh , eh , to distinguish be mmm , to train overlapping zone and speech zone. I mean , eh ,  I  I  I think that an interesting , eh , experiment , eh , could be , th eh , to prove that , mmm , if s we suppose that , eh , the  the first step   I mean , the  the classifier what were the classifier from Javier or classifier from Thilo ? W What happen with the second step ? I  I mean , what  what happen with the , eh  the , uh , clu the , uh  the clu the clustering process ?


But , eh , what did you think about the possibility of using the Javier software ? Eh , I mean , the , uh  the , uh  the BIC criterion , the  the  t to train the  the Gaussian , eh , using the  the mark , eh , by hand , eh , eh , to distinguish be mmm , to train overlapping zone and speech zone. I mean , eh ,  I  I  I think that an interesting , eh , experiment , eh , could be , th eh , to prove that , mmm , if s we suppose that , eh , the  the first step   I mean , the  the classifier what were the classifier from Javier or classifier from Thilo ? W What happen with the second step ? I  I mean , what  what happen with the , eh  the , uh , clu the , uh  the clu the clustering process ?


I  I mean , that is  is enough  is enough , eh , to work well , eh , to , eh , separate or to distinguish , eh , between overlapping zone and , eh , speaker zone ? Because th  if  if we  if we , eh , nnn , develop an classifier  and the second step doesn't work  well , eh , we have  another problem.


I  I mean , that is  is enough  is enough , eh , to work well , eh , to , eh , separate or to distinguish , eh , between overlapping zone and , eh , speaker zone ? Because th  if  if we  if we , eh , nnn , develop an classifier  and the second step doesn't work  well , eh , we have  another problem.

I  Yeah. I had tried doing it by hand at one point with a very short sample ,


I  I mean , that is  is enough  is enough , eh , to work well , eh , to , eh , separate or to distinguish , eh , between overlapping zone and , eh , speaker zone ? Because th  if  if we  if we , eh , nnn , develop an classifier  and the second step doesn't work  well , eh , we have  another problem.

I  Yeah. I had tried doing it by hand at one point with a very short sample ,

and it worked pretty well , but I haven't worked with it a lot. So what I d I d I took a hand - segmented sample


I  Yeah. I had tried doing it by hand at one point with a very short sample ,

and it worked pretty well , but I haven't worked with it a lot. So what I d I d I took a hand - segmented sample

and I added ten times the amount of numbers at random ,


and it worked pretty well , but I haven't worked with it a lot. So what I d I d I took a hand - segmented sample

and I added ten times the amount of numbers at random ,


and I added ten times the amount of numbers at random ,

and it did pick out pretty good boundaries.


and it did pick out pretty good boundaries.

But this was just very anecdotal sort of thing.


and it did pick out pretty good boundaries.

But this was just very anecdotal sort of thing.

But it 's possible with my segmentation by hand  that we have information about the  the overlapping ,


But this was just very anecdotal sort of thing.

But it 's possible with my segmentation by hand  that we have information about the  the overlapping ,

Right. So if we  if we fed the hand - segmentation to Javier 's and it doesn't work , then we know something 's wrong.


But this was just very anecdotal sort of thing.

But it 's possible with my segmentation by hand  that we have information about the  the overlapping ,

Right. So if we  if we fed the hand - segmentation to Javier 's and it doesn't work , then we know something 's wrong.

uh  Yeah. The  N n Yeah. No. The demonstration by hand. Segmentation by hand I  I  I think is the fast experiment.


But it 's possible with my segmentation by hand  that we have information about the  the overlapping ,

Right. So if we  if we fed the hand - segmentation to Javier 's and it doesn't work , then we know something 's wrong.

uh  Yeah. The  N n Yeah. No. The demonstration by hand. Segmentation by hand I  I  I think is the fast experiment.

Yeah. I think that 's probably worthwhile doing.