W What is the performance on s the best Switchboard system that we 've done ? Roughly ?

Well , the hybrid system we never got better than about fifty percent  error. And uh it was  I think there 's just a whole lot of things that uh no one ever had time for. We never did really fix up the dictionary. Uh we always had a list of a half dozen things that we were gonna do and  and a lot of them were pretty simple and we never did.


W What is the performance on s the best Switchboard system that we 've done ? Roughly ?

Well , the hybrid system we never got better than about fifty percent  error. And uh it was  I think there 's just a whole lot of things that uh no one ever had time for. We never did really fix up the dictionary. Uh we always had a list of a half dozen things that we were gonna do and  and a lot of them were pretty simple and we never did.

Uh , we never did an never did any adaptation


Well , the hybrid system we never got better than about fifty percent  error. And uh it was  I think there 's just a whole lot of things that uh no one ever had time for. We never did really fix up the dictionary. Uh we always had a list of a half dozen things that we were gonna do and  and a lot of them were pretty simple and we never did.

Uh , we never did an never did any adaptation


Uh , we never did an never did any adaptation


Uh , we never did an never did any adaptation

Right. And  And that number I think was on Switchboard - one data , right ? Where the error rate now is in the twenties.


Right. And  And that number I think was on Switchboard - one data , right ? Where the error rate now is in the twenties.


Right. And  And that number I think was on Switchboard - one data , right ? Where the error rate now is in the twenties.

So we were  Yeah. We were probably at least a factor or two off.


So we were  Yeah. We were probably at least a factor or two off.


So we were  Yeah. We were probably at least a factor or two off.

So it would be  So it would be good t to sort of r re uh


So it would be  So it would be good t to sort of r re uh


So it would be  So it would be good t to sort of r re uh

just at least to give us an idea of how well the hybrid system would do.


So it would be  So it would be good t to sort of r re uh

just at least to give us an idea of how well the hybrid system would do.

Yeah. But I think  again it 's  Yeah. It 's the conver it 's the s conversational speech bit. Because our  our Broadcast News system is actually pretty good.


just at least to give us an idea of how well the hybrid system would do.

Yeah. But I think  again it 's  Yeah. It 's the conver it 's the s conversational speech bit. Because our  our Broadcast News system is actually pretty good.


Yeah. But I think  again it 's  Yeah. It 's the conver it 's the s conversational speech bit. Because our  our Broadcast News system is actually pretty good.

Right. And the other thing that that would help us to evaluate is to see how well the M L P is trained up. Right ? Because it 's a pretty good um indicator of that.


Right. And the other thing that that would help us to evaluate is to see how well the M L P is trained up. Right ? Because it 's a pretty good um indicator of that.


Right. And the other thing that that would help us to evaluate is to see how well the M L P is trained up. Right ? Because it 's a pretty good um indicator of that.

So it 's sort of a sanity check of the M L P outputs  before we go ahead and train up the  uh you know , use them as a basis for the tandem system.


So it 's sort of a sanity check of the M L P outputs  before we go ahead and train up the  uh you know , use them as a basis for the tandem system.

Yeah. It 'll still probably be worse. I mean , it 's  it 'd be context independent and so on.


Yeah. It 'll still probably be worse. I mean , it 's  it 'd be context independent and so on.

Should we  Should we bother with um using the net before doing uh embedded training ?


Should we  Should we bother with um using the net before doing uh embedded training ?


Should we  Should we bother with um using the net before doing uh embedded training ?

I mean should  should we even use that ?


I mean should  should we even use that ?


I mean should  should we even use that ?

Yeah , we  we weren't sure whether it 's worth to just use the alignments um from the S R I recognizer or whether to actually go through one or more iterations of embedded training where you realign.


Yeah , we  we weren't sure whether it 's worth to just use the alignments um from the S R I recognizer or whether to actually go through one or more iterations of embedded training where you realign.

Try it. You run it ? Keep  keep both versions ? See which one 's better ?


Yeah , we  we weren't sure whether it 's worth to just use the alignments um from the S R I recognizer or whether to actually go through one or more iterations of embedded training where you realign.

Try it. You run it ? Keep  keep both versions ? See which one 's better ?

Uh , yeah. I mean. I think I agree with Ad I mean basically you would then  You proceed with the embedded training.


Try it. You run it ? Keep  keep both versions ? See which one 's better ?

Uh , yeah. I mean. I think I agree with Ad I mean basically you would then  You proceed with the embedded training.

It 's gonna take you a while to train at this net anyway.


Uh , yeah. I mean. I think I agree with Ad I mean basically you would then  You proceed with the embedded training.

It 's gonna take you a while to train at this net anyway.


It 's gonna take you a while to train at this net anyway.

And while it 's training you may as well test the one you have and see how it did.


And while it 's training you may as well test the one you have and see how it did.


And while it 's training you may as well test the one you have and see how it did.

I could make arguments either way. You know , it 's


I could make arguments either way. You know , it 's


I could make arguments either way. You know , it 's

Well but i But in your experience I mean uh have you seen big improvements in s on some tasks with embedded training ? Or was it sort of small - ish uh improvements that you got


Well but i But in your experience I mean uh have you seen big improvements in s on some tasks with embedded training ? Or was it sort of small - ish uh improvements that you got

Uh well. It depended on the task. I mean I think in this one I would sort of expect it to be important


Well but i But in your experience I mean uh have you seen big improvements in s on some tasks with embedded training ? Or was it sort of small - ish uh improvements that you got

Uh well. It depended on the task. I mean I think in this one I would sort of expect it to be important

because we 're coming from uh , alignments that were achieved with an extremely different system.


Uh well. It depended on the task. I mean I think in this one I would sort of expect it to be important

because we 're coming from uh , alignments that were achieved with an extremely different system.


because we 're coming from uh , alignments that were achieved with an extremely different system.

Although , I mean we 've done it with  When we were combining with the Cambridge recurrent neural net , embedded training made it worse.


Although , I mean we 've done it with  When we were combining with the Cambridge recurrent neural net , embedded training made it worse.


So you  you started training with outputs from a  with alignments that were generated by the Cambridge uh system ?


Hmm. Well , that might probably just  Hmm. That was probably because your initial system  I mean your system was ba worse than Cambridge 's. And you  Um.


No I mean it 's weird that it did  I 'm sorry. It 's w It 's weird that it got worse.


No I mean it 's weird that it did  I 'm sorry. It 's w It 's weird that it got worse.

Um. No. Uh. Tha - u we we 've see I mean  and wi with the numbers  OGI numbers task we 've seen a number of times people doing embedded trainings and things not getting better.


No I mean it 's weird that it did  I 'm sorry. It 's w It 's weird that it got worse.

Um. No. Uh. Tha - u we we 've see I mean  and wi with the numbers  OGI numbers task we 've seen a number of times people doing embedded trainings and things not getting better.

Oh actually it 's not that weird because we have seen  We have seen cases where acoustic  retraining the acoustic models after some other change made matters worse rather than better.


Um. No. Uh. Tha - u we we 've see I mean  and wi with the numbers  OGI numbers task we 've seen a number of times people doing embedded trainings and things not getting better.

Oh actually it 's not that weird because we have seen  We have seen cases where acoustic  retraining the acoustic models after some other change made matters worse rather than better.


Oh actually it 's not that weird because we have seen  We have seen cases where acoustic  retraining the acoustic models after some other change made matters worse rather than better.

But I But I would  I would suspect that something that  that had um a very different Um feature set , for instance  I mean they were using pretty diff similar feature sets to us.


But I But I would  I would suspect that something that  that had um a very different Um feature set , for instance  I mean they were using pretty diff similar feature sets to us.


But I But I would  I would suspect that something that  that had um a very different Um feature set , for instance  I mean they were using pretty diff similar feature sets to us.

I  I would expect that something that had a different feature set would  would uh benefit from


I  I would expect that something that had a different feature set would  would uh benefit from

What about uh hidden unit size  on this.


I  I would expect that something that had a different feature set would  would uh benefit from

What about uh hidden unit size  on this.

Oh , wait a minute , and the other thing uh ,


What about uh hidden unit size  on this.

Oh , wait a minute , and the other thing uh ,


What about uh hidden unit size  on this.

Oh , wait a minute , and the other thing uh ,

sorry , it was  the other thing is that what was in common  to the Cambridge system and our system is they both were training posteriors.


Oh , wait a minute , and the other thing uh ,

sorry , it was  the other thing is that what was in common  to the Cambridge system and our system is they both were training posteriors.


sorry , it was  the other thing is that what was in common  to the Cambridge system and our system is they both were training posteriors.

So I mean , uh , that 's another pretty big difference


So I mean , uh , that 's another pretty big difference


So I mean , uh , that 's another pretty big difference

You mean with soft targets ? Or  ? Sorry , I 'm sor I missed  What  What 's the key issue here ?


You mean with soft targets ? Or  ? Sorry , I 'm sor I missed  What  What 's the key issue here ?

Oh , that uh both the Cambridge system and our system were  were training  posteriors. And if we 're  we 're coming from alignments coming from the SRI system , it 's a likelihood - based system. So  so that 's another difference.


You mean with soft targets ? Or  ? Sorry , I 'm sor I missed  What  What 's the key issue here ?

Oh , that uh both the Cambridge system and our system were  were training  posteriors. And if we 're  we 're coming from alignments coming from the SRI system , it 's a likelihood - based system. So  so that 's another difference.

I mean. You know , there 's diffe different front - end different  different uh , um , training criterion  Uh , I would think that in a that an embedded  uh  embedded uh training would have at least a good shot of improving it some more.


Oh , that uh both the Cambridge system and our system were  were training  posteriors. And if we 're  we 're coming from alignments coming from the SRI system , it 's a likelihood - based system. So  so that 's another difference.

I mean. You know , there 's diffe different front - end different  different uh , um , training criterion  Uh , I would think that in a that an embedded  uh  embedded uh training would have at least a good shot of improving it some more.


I mean. You know , there 's diffe different front - end different  different uh , um , training criterion  Uh , I would think that in a that an embedded  uh  embedded uh training would have at least a good shot of improving it some more.


Yeah. I was wondering uh you know what size net I should  Anybody have any intuitions or suggestions ?


Yeah. I was wondering uh you know what size net I should  Anybody have any intuitions or suggestions ?

Well , I was gonna start off with the small train set.


Well , I was gonna start off with the small train set.

That 's why I was  I  I 'm not sure how much that is.


Well , I was gonna start off with the small train set.

That 's why I was  I  I 'm not sure how much that is.

Uh , I think that has about  Well i you 'd  would be gender - dependent training , right ? So  So I think it 's  uh that 's about mmm , something like thirty hours.


That 's why I was  I  I 'm not sure how much that is.

Uh , I think that has about  Well i you 'd  would be gender - dependent training , right ? So  So I think it 's  uh that 's about mmm , something like thirty hours.


Uh , I think that has about  Well i you 'd  would be gender - dependent training , right ? So  So I think it 's  uh that 's about mmm , something like thirty hours.


You know , it 's more like  like thirty forty hours something like that.


At least a couple thousand hidden units. I mean. It 's  it 's th the thing I 'll  I 'll think about it a little more


At least a couple thousand hidden units. I mean. It 's  it 's th the thing I 'll  I 'll think about it a little more

but it  it 'd be toss up between two thousand and four thousand.


but it  it 'd be toss up between two thousand and four thousand.

You definitely wouldn't want the eight thousand. It 's m It 's more than


You definitely wouldn't want the eight thousand. It 's m It 's more than

Oh let me think about it , but I think that  that uh th at some point there 's diminishing returns. I mean it doesn't actually get worse , typically ,


Oh let me think about it , but I think that  that uh th at some point there 's diminishing returns. I mean it doesn't actually get worse , typically ,


Oh let me think about it , but I think that  that uh th at some point there 's diminishing returns. I mean it doesn't actually get worse , typically ,

but it  but  but there is diminishing returns and you 're doubling  the amount of time.


but it  but  but there is diminishing returns and you 're doubling  the amount of time.

Remember you 'll have a smaller output layer so there 's gonna be fewer parameters there.


Remember you 'll have a smaller output layer so there 's gonna be fewer parameters there.


Right , because you used the context windows and so the input to hidden is much , much larger.


Yeah , so it 's  it 'd be way , way less than ten percent of the difference.


Yeah , so it 's  it 'd be way , way less than ten percent of the difference.

Uh. There 's uh  How bi how big Let 's see. What am I trying to think of ?


Yeah , so it 's  it 'd be way , way less than ten percent of the difference.

Uh. There 's uh  How bi how big Let 's see. What am I trying to think of ?

The  The net that  that we did use already  uh was eight thousand hidden units and that 's the one that Eric trained up.


Uh. There 's uh  How bi how big Let 's see. What am I trying to think of ?

The  The net that  that we did use already  uh was eight thousand hidden units and that 's the one that Eric trained up.

Right. And that was trained up on uh like a hundred and forty hours of  of speech.


Uh. There 's uh  How bi how big Let 's see. What am I trying to think of ?

The  The net that  that we did use already  uh was eight thousand hidden units and that 's the one that Eric trained up.

Right. And that was trained up on uh like a hundred and forty hours of  of speech.

Was that gender - dependent or independent ?


The  The net that  that we did use already  uh was eight thousand hidden units and that 's the one that Eric trained up.

Right. And that was trained up on uh like a hundred and forty hours of  of speech.

Was that gender - dependent or independent ?


Right. And that was trained up on uh like a hundred and forty hours of  of speech.

Was that gender - dependent or independent ?

Oh. So that would be like trained on s sixty or seventy hours.


Was that gender - dependent or independent ?

Oh. So that would be like trained on s sixty or seventy hours.


Oh. So that would be like trained on s sixty or seventy hours.

So , uh , yeah definitely not the one thousand uh  two thousand fr I mean the four thousand will be better and the two thousand will be almost  will be faster and almost as good.


So , uh , yeah definitely not the one thousand uh  two thousand fr I mean the four thousand will be better and the two thousand will be almost  will be faster and almost as good.


Maybe I 'll start off with two thousand just to see.


Yeah , thirty hours is like a hundred and ten thousand uh seconds. Uh , so that 's like eleven  eleven million frames. And a two thousand hidden unit net is uh I guess about seven , eight hundred thousand parameters. So that 's probably  That 's probably fine. I mean a four thousand is well within the range that you could benefit from but the two thousand 'd be faster so


Uncle Bernie 's rule is ten to one. Bernie Woodrow 's Rule of  yeah  Uncle Bernie  yeah.


Since we have nothing to talk about we only talked for an hour.


so , uh , we haven't sent around the agenda. So , i uh , any agenda items anybody has , wants to talk about , what 's going on ?


Well , I had a  just a quick question but I know there was discussion of it at a previous meeting that I missed , but just about the  the wish list item of getting good quality close - talking mikes on every speaker.


Well , I had a  just a quick question but I know there was discussion of it at a previous meeting that I missed , but just about the  the wish list item of getting good quality close - talking mikes on every speaker.

OK , so let 's  let 's  So let 's just do agenda  building right now. OK , so let 's talk about that a bit.


Well , I had a  just a quick question but I know there was discussion of it at a previous meeting that I missed , but just about the  the wish list item of getting good quality close - talking mikes on every speaker.

OK , so let 's  let 's  So let 's just do agenda  building right now. OK , so let 's talk about that a bit.

Uh , @ @ tuss close talking mikes , better quality. OK ,  uh , we can talk about that. You were gonna  starting to say something ?


OK , so let 's  let 's  So let 's just do agenda  building right now. OK , so let 's talk about that a bit.

Uh , @ @ tuss close talking mikes , better quality. OK ,  uh , we can talk about that. You were gonna  starting to say something ?

Well , you  you , um , already know about the meeting  that 's coming up and I don't know if  if this is appropriate for this. I don't know. I mean , maybe  maybe it 's something we should handle outside of the meeting.


Uh , @ @ tuss close talking mikes , better quality. OK ,  uh , we can talk about that. You were gonna  starting to say something ?

Well , you  you , um , already know about the meeting  that 's coming up and I don't know if  if this is appropriate for this. I don't know. I mean , maybe  maybe it 's something we should handle outside of the meeting.


Well , you  you , um , already know about the meeting  that 's coming up and I don't know if  if this is appropriate for this. I don't know. I mean , maybe  maybe it 's something we should handle outside of the meeting.

We can  so  we can ta so n NIST is  NIST folks are coming by next week


We can  so  we can ta so n NIST is  NIST folks are coming by next week


and , uh , I think George Doddington will be around as well. Uh , OK , so we can talk about that. Uh , I guess just hear about how things are going with , uh , uh , the transcriptions. That 's right.


and , uh , I think George Doddington will be around as well. Uh , OK , so we can talk about that. Uh , I guess just hear about how things are going with , uh , uh , the transcriptions. That 's right.

That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss. Um , An - anything else , uh , strike anybody ?


and , uh , I think George Doddington will be around as well. Uh , OK , so we can talk about that. Uh , I guess just hear about how things are going with , uh , uh , the transcriptions. That 's right.

That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss. Um , An - anything else , uh , strike anybody ?

Uh , we started  running recognition on  one conversation but it 's the r  isn't working yet. So , But if anyone has


That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss. Um , An - anything else , uh , strike anybody ?

Uh , we started  running recognition on  one conversation but it 's the r  isn't working yet. So , But if anyone has


Uh , we started  running recognition on  one conversation but it 's the r  isn't working yet. So , But if anyone has

uh , the main thing would be if anyone has , um , knowledge about ways to , uh , post - process the wave forms that would give us better recognition , that would be helpful to know about.


uh , the main thing would be if anyone has , um , knowledge about ways to , uh , post - process the wave forms that would give us better recognition , that would be helpful to know about.


uh , the main thing would be if anyone has , um , knowledge about ways to , uh , post - process the wave forms that would give us better recognition , that would be helpful to know about.

Dome yeah , it sounds like a topic of conversation.


Dome yeah , it sounds like a topic of conversation.

What about , uh , is there anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?


Dome yeah , it sounds like a topic of conversation.

What about , uh , is there anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?

Yeah , we 're working more on it but ,  it 's not finished.


What about , uh , is there anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?

Yeah , we 're working more on it but ,  it 's not finished.

OK. Alright , that seems like a  a good collection of things. And we 'll undoubtedly think of  other things.


What about , uh , is there anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?

Yeah , we 're working more on it but ,  it 's not finished.

OK. Alright , that seems like a  a good collection of things. And we 'll undoubtedly think of  other things.

I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I  I , uh , put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting , which includes like the pre - segmentation and the  and the developments in multitrans.


Yeah , we 're working more on it but ,  it 's not finished.

OK. Alright , that seems like a  a good collection of things. And we 'll undoubtedly think of  other things.

I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I  I , uh , put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting , which includes like the pre - segmentation and the  and the developments in multitrans.


OK. Alright , that seems like a  a good collection of things. And we 'll undoubtedly think of  other things.

I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I  I , uh , put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting , which includes like the pre - segmentation and the  and the developments in multitrans.


I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I  I , uh , put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting , which includes like the pre - segmentation and the  and the developments in multitrans.


Alright , why don't we start off with this , u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine.


Alright , why don't we start off with this , u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine.

Um , so , better quality close talking mikes. So the one issue was that the  the , uh , lapel mike , uh , isn't as good as you would like. And so , uh , it  it 'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody. Right ?


Um , so , better quality close talking mikes. So the one issue was that the  the , uh , lapel mike , uh , isn't as good as you would like. And so , uh , it  it 'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody. Right ?


Um , so , better quality close talking mikes. So the one issue was that the  the , uh , lapel mike , uh , isn't as good as you would like. And so , uh , it  it 'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody. Right ?

yeah , the  And actually in addition to that , that the  the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal. And the reason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth , uh  or and even on prosody , which Don is gonna be working on soon , it adds this extra , you know , vari variable for each speaker to  to deal with when the microphones aren't similar.


yeah , the  And actually in addition to that , that the  the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal. And the reason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth , uh  or and even on prosody , which Don is gonna be working on soon , it adds this extra , you know , vari variable for each speaker to  to deal with when the microphones aren't similar.


yeah , the  And actually in addition to that , that the  the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal. And the reason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth , uh  or and even on prosody , which Don is gonna be working on soon , it adds this extra , you know , vari variable for each speaker to  to deal with when the microphones aren't similar.

So  And I also talked to Mari this morning and she also had a strong preference for doing that. And in fact she said that that 's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too.


So  And I also talked to Mari this morning and she also had a strong preference for doing that. And in fact she said that that 's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too.


So  And I also talked to Mari this morning and she also had a strong preference for doing that. And in fact she said that that 's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too.

uh , well one thing I was gonna say was that , um , i we could get more , uh , of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it 's radio or wire is probably second - order. And the main thing is having the microphone close to you ,


uh , well one thing I was gonna say was that , um , i we could get more , uh , of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it 's radio or wire is probably second - order. And the main thing is having the microphone close to you ,


uh , well one thing I was gonna say was that , um , i we could get more , uh , of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it 's radio or wire is probably second - order. And the main thing is having the microphone close to you ,

Right , so , uh , actually the way Jose is wearing his is  is c  correct.


Right , so , uh , actually the way Jose is wearing his is  is c  correct.


So it 's towards the corner of your mouth so that breath sounds don't get on it.


So it 's towards the corner of your mouth so that breath sounds don't get on it.

And then just sort of about , uh , a thumb or  a thumb and a half away from your  from your mouth.


And then just sort of about , uh , a thumb or  a thumb and a half away from your  from your mouth.


But if we could actually standardize , you know , the  the microphones , uh , as much as possible that would be really helpful.


Well , I mean it doesn't hurt to have a few extra microphones around ,


Well , I mean it doesn't hurt to have a few extra microphones around ,

so why don't we just go out and  and get an order of  of if this microphone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things.


Well , I mean it doesn't hurt to have a few extra microphones around ,

so why don't we just go out and  and get an order of  of if this microphone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things.

Well the onl the only problem with that is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working. The little  the boxes under the table.


so why don't we just go out and  and get an order of  of if this microphone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things.

Well the onl the only problem with that is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working. The little  the boxes under the table.


so why don't we just go out and  and get an order of  of if this microphone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things.

Well the onl the only problem with that is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working. The little  the boxes under the table.

And so , w Uh , I 've only been able to find three jacks that are working.


Well the onl the only problem with that is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working. The little  the boxes under the table.

And so , w Uh , I 've only been able to find three jacks that are working.


And so , w Uh , I 've only been able to find three jacks that are working.


But y we could just record these signals separately and time align them with the start of the meeting.


But y we could just record these signals separately and time align them with the start of the meeting.

I  I 'm not sure I 'm follow. Say that again ?


But y we could just record these signals separately and time align them with the start of the meeting.

I  I 'm not sure I 'm follow. Say that again ?

Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that are not quote - unquote standard. So why don't we replace those


I  I 'm not sure I 'm follow. Say that again ?

Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that are not quote - unquote standard. So why don't we replace those


I  I 'm not sure I 'm follow. Say that again ?

Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that are not quote - unquote standard. So why don't we replace those

Well , however many we can plug in. You know , if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three.


Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that are not quote - unquote standard. So why don't we replace those

Well , however many we can plug in. You know , if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three.


Well , however many we can plug in. You know , if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three.


Well , however many we can plug in. You know , if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three.

Also what we 've talked before about getting another , uh , radio ,


Also what we 've talked before about getting another , uh , radio ,


Also what we 've talked before about getting another , uh , radio ,

and so then that would be , you know , three  more.


and so then that would be , you know , three  more.


and so then that would be , you know , three  more.

So , uh  so we should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do , but have them all be the same mike. I think the original reason that it was done the other way was because , it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather have more variety or   or , uh , more uniformity ,


So , uh  so we should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do , but have them all be the same mike. I think the original reason that it was done the other way was because , it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather have more variety or   or , uh , more uniformity ,


Well , for short term research it 's just  there 's just so much effort that would have to be done up front n uh ,


Is it because  You  you 're saying the  for dialogue purposes , so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with those mikes ? Is that what you mean ?


Is it because  You  you 're saying the  for dialogue purposes , so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with those mikes ? Is that what you mean ?

Well Jane would know more about the transcribers.


Is it because  You  you 're saying the  for dialogue purposes , so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with those mikes ? Is that what you mean ?

Well Jane would know more about the transcribers.

And that 's true. I mean , I  we did discuss this. Uh , and  and


Well Jane would know more about the transcribers.

And that 's true. I mean , I  we did discuss this. Uh , and  and


And that 's true. I mean , I  we did discuss this. Uh , and  and

a couple times , so , um , yeah , the transcribers notice  And in fact there 're some where , um  ugh well , I mean there 's  it 's the double thing. It 's the equipment and also how it 's worn.


a couple times , so , um , yeah , the transcribers notice  And in fact there 're some where , um  ugh well , I mean there 's  it 's the double thing. It 's the equipment and also how it 's worn.

And he 's always  they always  they just rave about how wonderful Adam 's  Adam 's channel is.


And he 's always  they always  they just rave about how wonderful Adam 's  Adam 's channel is.


Oh , really ? Yeah , I 'm not surprised. I mean , " Baaah ! "


Oh , really ? Yeah , I 'm not surprised. I mean , " Baaah ! "

Even if  if you 're talking on someone else 's mike it 's still  you w


Oh , really ? Yeah , I 'm not surprised. I mean , " Baaah ! "

Even if  if you 're talking on someone else 's mike it 's still  you w

Yeah , but I mean it 's not just that , it 's also you know you


Even if  if you 're talking on someone else 's mike it 's still  you w

Yeah , but I mean it 's not just that , it 's also you know you


Yeah , but I mean it 's not just that , it 's also you know you

It 's also like n no breathing , no  You know , it 's like it 's  it 's um ,


It 's also like n no breathing , no  You know , it 's like it 's  it 's um ,


It 's also like n no breathing , no  You know , it 's like it 's  it 's um ,

it 's really   it makes a big difference from the transcribers ' point of view


It 's also like n no breathing , no  You know , it 's like it 's  it 's um ,

it 's really   it makes a big difference from the transcribers ' point of view

Yeah , it 's an advantage when you don't breath.


it 's really   it makes a big difference from the transcribers ' point of view

Yeah , it 's an advantage when you don't breath.

and also from the research s point of view.


Yeah , it 's an advantage when you don't breath.

and also from the research s point of view.


and also from the research s point of view.

Yeah , I think that the point of doing the close talking mike is to get a good quality signal. We 're not doing research on close talking mikes.


Yeah , I think that the point of doing the close talking mike is to get a good quality signal. We 're not doing research on close talking mikes.


Yeah , I think that the point of doing the close talking mike is to get a good quality signal. We 're not doing research on close talking mikes.

So we might as well get it as uniform as we can.


So we might as well get it as uniform as we can.


So we might as well get it as uniform as we can.

Now , this is locking the barn door after the horse was stolen. We do have thirty hours , of  of speech , which is done this way.


Now , this is locking the barn door after the horse was stolen. We do have thirty hours , of  of speech , which is done this way.


Now , this is locking the barn door after the horse was stolen. We do have thirty hours , of  of speech , which is done this way.

But  but , uh , yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform.


But  but , uh , yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform.


But  but , uh , yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform.

So I think just do a field trip at some point.


But  but , uh , yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform.

So I think just do a field trip at some point.

Yeah , probably  yeah , to the store we talked about and that


So I think just do a field trip at some point.

Yeah , probably  yeah , to the store we talked about and that


So I think just do a field trip at some point.

Yeah , probably  yeah , to the store we talked about and that

And there was some talk about , uh , maybe the h headphones that are uncomfortable for people , to


Yeah , probably  yeah , to the store we talked about and that

And there was some talk about , uh , maybe the h headphones that are uncomfortable for people , to

Yep. So , as  as I said , we 'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that 's more comfortable than  than these things , which I think are horrible.


And there was some talk about , uh , maybe the h headphones that are uncomfortable for people , to

Yep. So , as  as I said , we 'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that 's more comfortable than  than these things , which I think are horrible.


Yep. So , as  as I said , we 'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that 's more comfortable than  than these things , which I think are horrible.


And , you know , we 're researchers , so we all have big heads.


And , you know , we 're researchers , so we all have big heads.

Yeah. Uh , OK , second item was the , uh , NIST visit , and what 's going on there.


Yeah. Uh , OK , second item was the , uh , NIST visit , and what 's going on there.

Yeah. OK , so , um , uh , Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I 've spoken with , uh ,  u u a lot of people here , not everyone. Um , and , um , he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in , um , seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans , which I 'll mention in a second , and also , um , he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he 's also interested in the transcription conventions.


Yeah. Uh , OK , second item was the , uh , NIST visit , and what 's going on there.

Yeah. OK , so , um , uh , Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I 've spoken with , uh ,  u u a lot of people here , not everyone. Um , and , um , he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in , um , seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans , which I 'll mention in a second , and also , um , he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he 's also interested in the transcription conventions.

And , um  So , um , it seems to me in terms of like , um , i i it wou You know , OK. So the room , it 's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic  acoustic properties of the room and how it  how the recordings are done , and that kind of thing. And , um. OK , in terms of the multi - trans , well that  that 's being modified by Dave Gelbart to , uh , handle multi - channel recording.


Yeah. OK , so , um , uh , Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I 've spoken with , uh ,  u u a lot of people here , not everyone. Um , and , um , he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in , um , seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans , which I 'll mention in a second , and also , um , he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he 's also interested in the transcription conventions.

And , um  So , um , it seems to me in terms of like , um , i i it wou You know , OK. So the room , it 's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic  acoustic properties of the room and how it  how the recordings are done , and that kind of thing. And , um. OK , in terms of the multi - trans , well that  that 's being modified by Dave Gelbart to , uh , handle multi - channel recording.

Oh , I should 've  I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting. I forgot to do it.


And , um  So , um , it seems to me in terms of like , um , i i it wou You know , OK. So the room , it 's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic  acoustic properties of the room and how it  how the recordings are done , and that kind of thing. And , um. OK , in terms of the multi - trans , well that  that 's being modified by Dave Gelbart to , uh , handle multi - channel recording.

Oh , I should 've  I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting. I forgot to do it.


Oh , I should 've  I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting. I forgot to do it.


Yeah , and it 's t and it looks really great. He  he has a prototype. I  I , uh , @ @  didn't  didn't see it , uh , yesterday but I 'm going to see it today. And , uh , that 's  that will enable us to do  nice um , tight time marking of the beginning and ending of overlapping segments. At present it 's not possible with limitations of  of the , uh , original  design of the software. And um. So , I don't know. In terms of , like , pre - segmentation , that  that continues to be , um , a terrific asset to the  to the transcribers. Do you  I know that you 're al also supplementing it further. Do you want to mention something about that c Thilo , or  ?


Yeah , and it 's t and it looks really great. He  he has a prototype. I  I , uh , @ @  didn't  didn't see it , uh , yesterday but I 'm going to see it today. And , uh , that 's  that will enable us to do  nice um , tight time marking of the beginning and ending of overlapping segments. At present it 's not possible with limitations of  of the , uh , original  design of the software. And um. So , I don't know. In terms of , like , pre - segmentation , that  that continues to be , um , a terrific asset to the  to the transcribers. Do you  I know that you 're al also supplementing it further. Do you want to mention something about that c Thilo , or  ?

Um , yeah. What  what I 'm doing right now is I 'm trying to include some information about which channel , uh , there 's some speech in. But that 's not working at the moment. I 'm just trying to do this by comparing energies , uh  normalizing energies and comparing energies of the different channels.


Yeah , and it 's t and it looks really great. He  he has a prototype. I  I , uh , @ @  didn't  didn't see it , uh , yesterday but I 'm going to see it today. And , uh , that 's  that will enable us to do  nice um , tight time marking of the beginning and ending of overlapping segments. At present it 's not possible with limitations of  of the , uh , original  design of the software. And um. So , I don't know. In terms of , like , pre - segmentation , that  that continues to be , um , a terrific asset to the  to the transcribers. Do you  I know that you 're al also supplementing it further. Do you want to mention something about that c Thilo , or  ?

Um , yeah. What  what I 'm doing right now is I 'm trying to include some information about which channel , uh , there 's some speech in. But that 's not working at the moment. I 'm just trying to do this by comparing energies , uh  normalizing energies and comparing energies of the different channels.

And so to  to give the transcribers some information in which channel there 's  there 's speech in addition to  to the thing we  we did now which is just , uh , speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file. So I 'm  I 'm relying on  on the segmentation of the mixed file


Um , yeah. What  what I 'm doing right now is I 'm trying to include some information about which channel , uh , there 's some speech in. But that 's not working at the moment. I 'm just trying to do this by comparing energies , uh  normalizing energies and comparing energies of the different channels.

And so to  to give the transcribers some information in which channel there 's  there 's speech in addition to  to the thing we  we did now which is just , uh , speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file. So I 'm  I 'm relying on  on the segmentation of the mixed file


And so to  to give the transcribers some information in which channel there 's  there 's speech in addition to  to the thing we  we did now which is just , uh , speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file. So I 'm  I 'm relying on  on the segmentation of the mixed file

but I 'm  I 'm trying to subdivide the speech portions into different portions if there is some activity in  in different channels.


And so to  to give the transcribers some information in which channel there 's  there 's speech in addition to  to the thing we  we did now which is just , uh , speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file. So I 'm  I 'm relying on  on the segmentation of the mixed file

but I 'm  I 'm trying to subdivide the speech portions into different portions if there is some activity in  in different channels.

Excellent , so this 'd be like w e providing also speaker ID  potentially.


but I 'm  I 'm trying to subdivide the speech portions into different portions if there is some activity in  in different channels.

Excellent , so this 'd be like w e providing also speaker ID  potentially.


Excellent , so this 'd be like w e providing also speaker ID  potentially.

Um , something I guess I didn't put in the list but , uh , on that , uh , same day later on in  or maybe it 's  No , actually  it 's this week , uh , Dave Gelbart and I will be , uh , visiting with John Canny who i you know , is a CS professor ,


Um , something I guess I didn't put in the list but , uh , on that , uh , same day later on in  or maybe it 's  No , actually  it 's this week , uh , Dave Gelbart and I will be , uh , visiting with John Canny who i you know , is a CS professor ,


Um , something I guess I didn't put in the list but , uh , on that , uh , same day later on in  or maybe it 's  No , actually  it 's this week , uh , Dave Gelbart and I will be , uh , visiting with John Canny who i you know , is a CS professor ,

who 's interested in ar in array microphones.


who 's interested in ar in array microphones.

Yeah. And so we wanna see what commonality there is here. You know , maybe they 'd wanna stick an array mike here when we 're doing things


Yeah. And so we wanna see what commonality there is here. You know , maybe they 'd wanna stick an array mike here when we 're doing things


Yeah. And so we wanna see what commonality there is here. You know , maybe they 'd wanna stick an array mike here when we 're doing things

or  or maybe it 's  it 's not a specific array microphone they want


or  or maybe it 's  it 's not a specific array microphone they want


or  or maybe it 's  it 's not a specific array microphone they want

but they might wanna just ,  uh , you know , you could imagine them taking the four signals from these  these table mikes and trying to do something with them  Um , I also had a discussion  So , w uh , we 'll be over  over there talking with him , um , after class on Friday. Um , we 'll let you know what  what goes with that. Also had a completely unrelated thing. I had a , uh , discussion today with , uh , Birger Kollmeier who 's a , uh , a German , uh , scientist who 's got a fair sized group  doing a range of things. It 's sort of auditory related , largely for hearing aids and so on. But  but , uh , he does stuff with auditory models and he 's very interested in directionality , and location , and  and , uh , head models and  microphone things. And so , uh , he 's  he and possibly a student , there w there 's , uh , a student of his who gave a talk here last year , uh , may come here , uh , in the fall for , uh , sort of a five month , uh , sabbatical. So he might be around. Get him to give some talks and so on. But anyway , he might be interested in  this stuff.


but they might wanna just ,  uh , you know , you could imagine them taking the four signals from these  these table mikes and trying to do something with them  Um , I also had a discussion  So , w uh , we 'll be over  over there talking with him , um , after class on Friday. Um , we 'll let you know what  what goes with that. Also had a completely unrelated thing. I had a , uh , discussion today with , uh , Birger Kollmeier who 's a , uh , a German , uh , scientist who 's got a fair sized group  doing a range of things. It 's sort of auditory related , largely for hearing aids and so on. But  but , uh , he does stuff with auditory models and he 's very interested in directionality , and location , and  and , uh , head models and  microphone things. And so , uh , he 's  he and possibly a student , there w there 's , uh , a student of his who gave a talk here last year , uh , may come here , uh , in the fall for , uh , sort of a five month , uh , sabbatical. So he might be around. Get him to give some talks and so on. But anyway , he might be interested in  this stuff.


but they might wanna just ,  uh , you know , you could imagine them taking the four signals from these  these table mikes and trying to do something with them  Um , I also had a discussion  So , w uh , we 'll be over  over there talking with him , um , after class on Friday. Um , we 'll let you know what  what goes with that. Also had a completely unrelated thing. I had a , uh , discussion today with , uh , Birger Kollmeier who 's a , uh , a German , uh , scientist who 's got a fair sized group  doing a range of things. It 's sort of auditory related , largely for hearing aids and so on. But  but , uh , he does stuff with auditory models and he 's very interested in directionality , and location , and  and , uh , head models and  microphone things. And so , uh , he 's  he and possibly a student , there w there 's , uh , a student of his who gave a talk here last year , uh , may come here , uh , in the fall for , uh , sort of a five month , uh , sabbatical. So he might be around. Get him to give some talks and so on. But anyway , he might be interested in  this stuff.

That  that reminds me , I had a  a thought of an interesting project that somebody could try to do with  the data from here , either using , you know , the  the mikes on the table or using signal energies from the head worn mikes ,


That  that reminds me , I had a  a thought of an interesting project that somebody could try to do with  the data from here , either using , you know , the  the mikes on the table or using signal energies from the head worn mikes ,

and that is to try to construct a map of where people were sitting ,


and that is to try to construct a map of where people were sitting ,


Well Dan  Dan had worked on that. Dan Ellis ,


Well Dan  Dan had worked on that. Dan Ellis ,

yeah. So that  that 's the cross - correlation stuff , was  was doing b beam - forming.


yeah. So that  that 's the cross - correlation stuff , was  was doing b beam - forming.


yeah. So that  that 's the cross - correlation stuff , was  was doing b beam - forming.

And so you could plot out who was sitting next to who


And so you could plot out who was sitting next to who


And so you could plot out who was sitting next to who

I mean , he didn't do a very extreme thing but just  it was just sort of


I mean , he didn't do a very extreme thing but just  it was just sort of


I mean , he didn't do a very extreme thing but just  it was just sort of

e e given that , the  the  the block of wood with the  the  the two mikes  on either side ,


e e given that , the  the  the block of wood with the  the  the two mikes  on either side ,


e e given that , the  the  the block of wood with the  the  the two mikes  on either side ,

if I 'm speaking , or if you 're speaking , or someone over there is speaking , it  if you look at cross - correlation functions , you end up with a


if I 'm speaking , or if you 're speaking , or someone over there is speaking , it  if you look at cross - correlation functions , you end up with a

if  if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking , then you  you get a big peak there. And if  if someone 's talking on  on  on , uh , one side or the other , it goes the other way.


if  if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking , then you  you get a big peak there. And if  if someone 's talking on  on  on , uh , one side or the other , it goes the other way.

And then , uh , it  it  it even looks different if th t if the two  two people on either side are talking than if one in the middle. It  it actually looks somewhat different , so.


if  if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking , then you  you get a big peak there. And if  if someone 's talking on  on  on , uh , one side or the other , it goes the other way.

And then , uh , it  it  it even looks different if th t if the two  two people on either side are talking than if one in the middle. It  it actually looks somewhat different , so.

Hmm. Well I was just thinking , you know , as I was sitting here next to Thilo that um , when he 's talking , my mike probably picks it up better than  your guys 's mikes.


And then , uh , it  it  it even looks different if th t if the two  two people on either side are talking than if one in the middle. It  it actually looks somewhat different , so.

Hmm. Well I was just thinking , you know , as I was sitting here next to Thilo that um , when he 's talking , my mike probably picks it up better than  your guys 's mikes.


Hmm. Well I was just thinking , you know , as I was sitting here next to Thilo that um , when he 's talking , my mike probably picks it up better than  your guys 's mikes.


yeah ,  looked at  the energy on my mike and you could get an idea about who 's closest to who.


Yeah , well you have to  the appropriate normalizations are tricky , and  and  and are probably the key.


Yeah , well you have to  the appropriate normalizations are tricky , and  and  and are probably the key.

You just search for Adam 's voice on each individual microphone , you pretty much know where everybody 's sitting.


You just search for Adam 's voice on each individual microphone , you pretty much know where everybody 's sitting.


You just search for Adam 's voice on each individual microphone , you pretty much know where everybody 's sitting.

Yeah. We 've switched positions recently so you can't  Anyway. OK. So those are just a little couple of news items.


You just search for Adam 's voice on each individual microphone , you pretty much know where everybody 's sitting.

Yeah. We 've switched positions recently so you can't  Anyway. OK. So those are just a little couple of news items.

Can I ask one thing ? Uh , so , um , Jonathan Fiscus expressed an interest in , uh , microphone arrays.


Yeah. We 've switched positions recently so you can't  Anyway. OK. So those are just a little couple of news items.

Can I ask one thing ? Uh , so , um , Jonathan Fiscus expressed an interest in , uh , microphone arrays.


Yeah. We 've switched positions recently so you can't  Anyway. OK. So those are just a little couple of news items.

Can I ask one thing ? Uh , so , um , Jonathan Fiscus expressed an interest in , uh , microphone arrays.

Um , is there  I mean  b And I also want to say , his  he can't stay all day. He needs to uh , leave for  uh , from here to make a two forty - five flight


Can I ask one thing ? Uh , so , um , Jonathan Fiscus expressed an interest in , uh , microphone arrays.

Um , is there  I mean  b And I also want to say , his  he can't stay all day. He needs to uh , leave for  uh , from here to make a two forty - five flight


Um , is there  I mean  b And I also want to say , his  he can't stay all day. He needs to uh , leave for  uh , from here to make a two forty - five flight


So it makes the scheduling a little bit tight but do you think that , um  that , uh , i John Canny should be involved in this somehow or not. I have no idea.


So it makes the scheduling a little bit tight but do you think that , um  that , uh , i John Canny should be involved in this somehow or not. I have no idea.

Probably not but I  I 'll  I 'll  I 'll know better after I see him this Friday what  what kind of level he wants to get involved.


So it makes the scheduling a little bit tight but do you think that , um  that , uh , i John Canny should be involved in this somehow or not. I have no idea.

Probably not but I  I 'll  I 'll  I 'll know better after I see him this Friday what  what kind of level he wants to get involved.

Uh , he might be excited to and it might be very appropriate for him to , uh , or he might have no interest whatsoever. I  I just really don't know.


Probably not but I  I 'll  I 'll  I 'll know better after I see him this Friday what  what kind of level he wants to get involved.

Uh , he might be excited to and it might be very appropriate for him to , uh , or he might have no interest whatsoever. I  I just really don't know.


Uh , he might be excited to and it might be very appropriate for him to , uh , or he might have no interest whatsoever. I  I just really don't know.

Is he involved in  Ach !  I 'm blanking on the name of the project. NIST has  has done a big meeting room  instrumented meeting room with video and microphone arrays , and very elaborate software. Is  is he the one working on that ?


Is he involved in  Ach !  I 'm blanking on the name of the project. NIST has  has done a big meeting room  instrumented meeting room with video and microphone arrays , and very elaborate software. Is  is he the one working on that ?


Is he involved in  Ach !  I 'm blanking on the name of the project. NIST has  has done a big meeting room  instrumented meeting room with video and microphone arrays , and very elaborate software. Is  is he the one working on that ?

Yeah. No , I mean , that 's what all this is about. They  they haven't done it yet. They wanted to do it


Yeah. No , I mean , that 's what all this is about. They  they haven't done it yet. They wanted to do it

OK. I had read some papers that looked like they had already done some work.


Yeah. No , I mean , that 's what all this is about. They  they haven't done it yet. They wanted to do it

OK. I had read some papers that looked like they had already done some work.

Uh , well I think they 've instrumented a room but I don't  think they  they haven't started recordings yet. They don't have the t the transcription standards. They don't have the


OK. I had read some papers that looked like they had already done some work.

Uh , well I think they 've instrumented a room but I don't  think they  they haven't started recordings yet. They don't have the t the transcription standards. They don't have the


Uh , well I think they 've instrumented a room but I don't  think they  they haven't started recordings yet. They don't have the t the transcription standards. They don't have the


Oh , cuz what  what I had read was , uh , they had a uh very large amount of software infrastructure for coordinating all this , both in terms of recording and also live room where you 're interacting  the participants are interacting with the computer , and with the video , and lots of other stuff.


Oh , cuz what  what I had read was , uh , they had a uh very large amount of software infrastructure for coordinating all this , both in terms of recording and also live room where you 're interacting  the participants are interacting with the computer , and with the video , and lots of other stuff.

All  all I know is that they 've been talking to me about a project that they 're going to start up recording people meet in meetings.


All  all I know is that they 've been talking to me about a project that they 're going to start up recording people meet in meetings.


All  all I know is that they 've been talking to me about a project that they 're going to start up recording people meet in meetings.

And , uh , it is related to ours. They were interested in ours. They wanted to get some uniformity with us , uh , about the transcriptions and so on.


And , uh , it is related to ours. They were interested in ours. They wanted to get some uniformity with us , uh , about the transcriptions and so on.

And one  one notable difference  u u actually I can't remember whether they were going to routinely collect video or not , but one  one , uh , difference from the audio side was that they are interested in using array mikes. So , um , I mean , I 'll just tell you the party line on that. The reason I didn't go for that here was because , uh , the focus , uh , both of my interest and of Adam 's interest was uh , in impromptu situations. And we 're not recording a bunch of impromptu situations but that 's because it 's different to get data for research than to actually apply it.


And one  one notable difference  u u actually I can't remember whether they were going to routinely collect video or not , but one  one , uh , difference from the audio side was that they are interested in using array mikes. So , um , I mean , I 'll just tell you the party line on that. The reason I didn't go for that here was because , uh , the focus , uh , both of my interest and of Adam 's interest was uh , in impromptu situations. And we 're not recording a bunch of impromptu situations but that 's because it 's different to get data for research than to actually apply it.

And so , uh , for scientific reasons we thought it was good to instrument this room as we wanted it. But the thing we ultimately wanted to aim at was a situation where you were talking with , uh , one or more other people i uh , in  in an p impromptu way , where you didn't  didn't actually know what the situation was going to be. And therefore it would not  it 'd be highly unlikely that room would be outfitted with  with some very carefully designed array of microphones. Um , so it was only for that reason. It was just , you know , yet another piece of research and it seemed like we had enough troubles just


And one  one notable difference  u u actually I can't remember whether they were going to routinely collect video or not , but one  one , uh , difference from the audio side was that they are interested in using array mikes. So , um , I mean , I 'll just tell you the party line on that. The reason I didn't go for that here was because , uh , the focus , uh , both of my interest and of Adam 's interest was uh , in impromptu situations. And we 're not recording a bunch of impromptu situations but that 's because it 's different to get data for research than to actually apply it.

And so , uh , for scientific reasons we thought it was good to instrument this room as we wanted it. But the thing we ultimately wanted to aim at was a situation where you were talking with , uh , one or more other people i uh , in  in an p impromptu way , where you didn't  didn't actually know what the situation was going to be. And therefore it would not  it 'd be highly unlikely that room would be outfitted with  with some very carefully designed array of microphones. Um , so it was only for that reason. It was just , you know , yet another piece of research and it seemed like we had enough troubles just

So there 's no like portable array of mikes ?


And so , uh , for scientific reasons we thought it was good to instrument this room as we wanted it. But the thing we ultimately wanted to aim at was a situation where you were talking with , uh , one or more other people i uh , in  in an p impromptu way , where you didn't  didn't actually know what the situation was going to be. And therefore it would not  it 'd be highly unlikely that room would be outfitted with  with some very carefully designed array of microphones. Um , so it was only for that reason. It was just , you know , yet another piece of research and it seemed like we had enough troubles just

So there 's no like portable array of mikes ?

No. So there 's  there 's  uh , there 's a whole range of things  there 's a whole array of things ,  that people do on this.


So there 's no like portable array of mikes ?

No. So there 's  there 's  uh , there 's a whole range of things  there 's a whole array of things ,  that people do on this.

So , um , the , uh  the big arrays , uh , places , uh , like uh , Rutgers , and Brown , and other  other places , uh , they have , uh , big arrays with , I don't know , a hundred  hundred mikes or something.


No. So there 's  there 's  uh , there 's a whole range of things  there 's a whole array of things ,  that people do on this.

So , um , the , uh  the big arrays , uh , places , uh , like uh , Rutgers , and Brown , and other  other places , uh , they have , uh , big arrays with , I don't know , a hundred  hundred mikes or something.


So , um , the , uh  the big arrays , uh , places , uh , like uh , Rutgers , and Brown , and other  other places , uh , they have , uh , big arrays with , I don't know , a hundred  hundred mikes or something.

And so there 's a wall of mikes. And you get really , really good beam - forming  with that sort of thing.


And so there 's a wall of mikes. And you get really , really good beam - forming  with that sort of thing.

And it 's  and , um , in fact at one point we had a  a proposal in with Rutgers where we were gonna do some of the sort of per channel signal - processing and they were gonna do the multi - channel stuff , but  it d it d we ended up not doing it. But


And so there 's a wall of mikes. And you get really , really good beam - forming  with that sort of thing.

And it 's  and , um , in fact at one point we had a  a proposal in with Rutgers where we were gonna do some of the sort of per channel signal - processing and they were gonna do the multi - channel stuff , but  it d it d we ended up not doing it. But

I 've seen demonstrations of the microphone arrays. It 's amazing how  how they can cut out noise.


And it 's  and , um , in fact at one point we had a  a proposal in with Rutgers where we were gonna do some of the sort of per channel signal - processing and they were gonna do the multi - channel stuff , but  it d it d we ended up not doing it. But

I 've seen demonstrations of the microphone arrays. It 's amazing how  how they can cut out noise.


I 've seen demonstrations of the microphone arrays. It 's amazing how  how they can cut out noise.

And then they had the little ones , yeah.


And then they had the little ones , yeah.

but I mean  but they don't have our block of wood , right ?


but I mean  but they don't have our block of wood , right ?

But the  But the No , there are these commercial things now you can buy that have four mikes or something


But the  But the No , there are these commercial things now you can buy that have four mikes or something


But the  But the No , there are these commercial things now you can buy that have four mikes or something

and  and , uh , um  So , yeah , there 's  there 's  there 's a range of things that people do.


and  and , uh , um  So , yeah , there 's  there 's  there 's a range of things that people do.

Um , so if we connected up with somebody who was interested in doing that sort of thing that 's  that 's a good thing to do. I mean , whenever I 've described this to other people who are interested on the  with the acoustic side that 's invariably the question they ask. Just like someone who is interested in the general dialogue thing will always ask  " um , are you recording video ? "


Um , so if we connected up with somebody who was interested in doing that sort of thing that 's  that 's a good thing to do. I mean , whenever I 've described this to other people who are interested on the  with the acoustic side that 's invariably the question they ask. Just like someone who is interested in the general dialogue thing will always ask  " um , are you recording video ? "


And  and the acoustic people will always say , " well are you doing , uh , uh , array microphones ? " So it 's  it 's a good thing to do , but it doesn't solve the problem of how do you solve things when there 's one mike or at best two mikes in  in this imagined PDA that we have. So maybe  maybe we 'll do some more of it.


And  and the acoustic people will always say , " well are you doing , uh , uh , array microphones ? " So it 's  it 's a good thing to do , but it doesn't solve the problem of how do you solve things when there 's one mike or at best two mikes in  in this imagined PDA that we have. So maybe  maybe we 'll do some more of it.

Well one thing I  I mean , I don't know. I mean , I know that having an array of  I mean , I would imagine it would be more expensive to have a  an array of microphones. But couldn't you kind of approximate the natural sis situation by just shutting off uh , channels when you 're  later on ? I mean , it seems like if the microphones don't effect each other then couldn't you just , you know , record them with an array and then just not use all the data ?


And  and the acoustic people will always say , " well are you doing , uh , uh , array microphones ? " So it 's  it 's a good thing to do , but it doesn't solve the problem of how do you solve things when there 's one mike or at best two mikes in  in this imagined PDA that we have. So maybe  maybe we 'll do some more of it.

Well one thing I  I mean , I don't know. I mean , I know that having an array of  I mean , I would imagine it would be more expensive to have a  an array of microphones. But couldn't you kind of approximate the natural sis situation by just shutting off uh , channels when you 're  later on ? I mean , it seems like if the microphones don't effect each other then couldn't you just , you know , record them with an array and then just not use all the data ?

It 's  it 's just a lot of infrastructure that for our particular purpose we felt we didn't need to set up.


Well one thing I  I mean , I don't know. I mean , I know that having an array of  I mean , I would imagine it would be more expensive to have a  an array of microphones. But couldn't you kind of approximate the natural sis situation by just shutting off uh , channels when you 're  later on ? I mean , it seems like if the microphones don't effect each other then couldn't you just , you know , record them with an array and then just not use all the data ?

It 's  it 's just a lot of infrastructure that for our particular purpose we felt we didn't need to set up.


It 's  it 's just a lot of infrastructure that for our particular purpose we felt we didn't need to set up.


Yeah , if ninety - nine percent of what you 're doing is c is shutting off most of the mikes , then going through the


Yeah , if ninety - nine percent of what you 're doing is c is shutting off most of the mikes , then going through the

But if you get somebody who 's  who  who has that as a primary interest then that put  then that drives it in that direction.


Yeah , if ninety - nine percent of what you 're doing is c is shutting off most of the mikes , then going through the

But if you get somebody who 's  who  who has that as a primary interest then that put  then that drives it in that direction.

That 's right , I mean if someone  if someone came in and said we really want to do it ,


But if you get somebody who 's  who  who has that as a primary interest then that put  then that drives it in that direction.

That 's right , I mean if someone  if someone came in and said we really want to do it ,


But if you get somebody who 's  who  who has that as a primary interest then that put  then that drives it in that direction.

That 's right , I mean if someone  if someone came in and said we really want to do it ,

I mean , we don't care. That would be fine ,


That 's right , I mean if someone  if someone came in and said we really want to do it ,

I mean , we don't care. That would be fine ,

So to save that data you  You have to have one channel recording per mike in the array ?


I mean , we don't care. That would be fine ,

So to save that data you  You have to have one channel recording per mike in the array ?


I mean , we don't care. That would be fine ,

So to save that data you  You have to have one channel recording per mike in the array ?

Well , uh , at some level  at some level.


So to save that data you  You have to have one channel recording per mike in the array ?

Well , uh , at some level  at some level.


Well , uh , at some level  at some level.


Well , uh , at some level  at some level.

But then , you know , there 's  it  there 's


But then , you know , there 's  it  there 's

What you save , I mean , if you 're going to do research with it. yeah


But then , you know , there 's  it  there 's

What you save , I mean , if you 're going to do research with it. yeah

There 's  I  I don't know what they 're going to do and I don't know how big their array is. Obviously if you were gonna save all of those channels for later research you 'd use up a lot of space.


What you save , I mean , if you 're going to do research with it. yeah

There 's  I  I don't know what they 're going to do and I don't know how big their array is. Obviously if you were gonna save all of those channels for later research you 'd use up a lot of space.


There 's  I  I don't know what they 're going to do and I don't know how big their array is. Obviously if you were gonna save all of those channels for later research you 'd use up a lot of space.


Well their software infrastructure had a very elaborate design for plugging in filters , and mixers , and all sorts of processing. So that they can do stuff in real time and not save out each channel individually.


But I mean , uh , for optimum flexibility later you 'd want to save each channel. But I think in practical situations you would have some engine of some sort doing some processing to reduce this to some  to the equivalent of a single microphone that was very directional.


Sort of saving the result of the beam - forming.


Sort of saving the result of the beam - forming.

it seems to me that there 's  you know , there are good political reasons for  for doing this , just getting the data , because there 's a number of sites  like right now SRI is probably gonna invest a lot of internal funding into recording meetings also , which is good , um , but they 'll be recording with video and they 'll be  You know , it 'd be nice if we can have at least , uh , make use of the data that we 're recording as we go since it 's sort of  this is the first site that has really collected these really impromptu meetings , um , and just have this other information available. So , if we can get the investment in just for the infra infrastructure and then , I don't know , save it out or have whoever 's interested save that data out , transfer it there , it 'd be g it 'd be good to have  have the recording. I think.


Sort of saving the result of the beam - forming.

it seems to me that there 's  you know , there are good political reasons for  for doing this , just getting the data , because there 's a number of sites  like right now SRI is probably gonna invest a lot of internal funding into recording meetings also , which is good , um , but they 'll be recording with video and they 'll be  You know , it 'd be nice if we can have at least , uh , make use of the data that we 're recording as we go since it 's sort of  this is the first site that has really collected these really impromptu meetings , um , and just have this other information available. So , if we can get the investment in just for the infra infrastructure and then , I don't know , save it out or have whoever 's interested save that data out , transfer it there , it 'd be g it 'd be good to have  have the recording. I think.

You mean to  to actually get a microphone array and do that ?


it seems to me that there 's  you know , there are good political reasons for  for doing this , just getting the data , because there 's a number of sites  like right now SRI is probably gonna invest a lot of internal funding into recording meetings also , which is good , um , but they 'll be recording with video and they 'll be  You know , it 'd be nice if we can have at least , uh , make use of the data that we 're recording as we go since it 's sort of  this is the first site that has really collected these really impromptu meetings , um , and just have this other information available. So , if we can get the investment in just for the infra infrastructure and then , I don't know , save it out or have whoever 's interested save that data out , transfer it there , it 'd be g it 'd be good to have  have the recording. I think.

You mean to  to actually get a microphone array and do that ?


You mean to  to actually get a microphone array and do that ?

I 'm not sure about video. That 's sort of an  video has a little different nature since right n right now we 're all being recorded but we 're not being taped. Um , but it  definitely in the case of microphone arrays , since if there was a community interested in this , then


I 'm not sure about video. That 's sort of an  video has a little different nature since right n right now we 're all being recorded but we 're not being taped. Um , but it  definitely in the case of microphone arrays , since if there was a community interested in this , then

Well , but I think we need a researcher here who 's interested in it. To push it along.


I 'm not sure about video. That 's sort of an  video has a little different nature since right n right now we 're all being recorded but we 're not being taped. Um , but it  definitely in the case of microphone arrays , since if there was a community interested in this , then

Well , but I think we need a researcher here who 's interested in it. To push it along.

See the problem is it  it took , uh , uh , it took at least six months for Dan to get together the hardware and the software , and debug stuff in  in the microphones , and in the boxes. And it was a really big deal. And so I think we could get a microphone array in here pretty easily and , uh , have it mixed to  to one channel of some sort.


Well , but I think we need a researcher here who 's interested in it. To push it along.

See the problem is it  it took , uh , uh , it took at least six months for Dan to get together the hardware and the software , and debug stuff in  in the microphones , and in the boxes. And it was a really big deal. And so I think we could get a microphone array in here pretty easily and , uh , have it mixed to  to one channel of some sort.

But , e I think for I mean , how we 're gonna decide  For  for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that 's pointed in the direction of the  the  the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that. I mean , you  you want actually to  you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can  And to do that , it  we 're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up , we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels and in  this meeting , we 've got eight people and  and six mikes. And there we 're already using fourteen.


See the problem is it  it took , uh , uh , it took at least six months for Dan to get together the hardware and the software , and debug stuff in  in the microphones , and in the boxes. And it was a really big deal. And so I think we could get a microphone array in here pretty easily and , uh , have it mixed to  to one channel of some sort.

But , e I think for I mean , how we 're gonna decide  For  for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that 's pointed in the direction of the  the  the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that. I mean , you  you want actually to  you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can  And to do that , it  we 're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up , we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels and in  this meeting , we 've got eight people and  and six mikes. And there we 're already using fourteen.


But , e I think for I mean , how we 're gonna decide  For  for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that 's pointed in the direction of the  the  the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that. I mean , you  you want actually to  you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can  And to do that , it  we 're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up , we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels and in  this meeting , we 've got eight people and  and six mikes. And there we 're already using fourteen.


Well if there 's a way to say time  to sort of solve each of these f those


Well if there 's a way to say time  to sort of solve each of these f those

So suppose you can get an array in because there 's some person at Berkeley who 's interested and has some  equipment , uh , and suppose we can  as we save it we can , you know , transfer it off to some other place that  that holds this  this data , who 's interested , and even if ICSI it itself isn't. Um , and it  it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning , do we need to mix it with the rest ? I don't know. You know ? The


Well if there 's a way to say time  to sort of solve each of these f those

So suppose you can get an array in because there 's some person at Berkeley who 's interested and has some  equipment , uh , and suppose we can  as we save it we can , you know , transfer it off to some other place that  that holds this  this data , who 's interested , and even if ICSI it itself isn't. Um , and it  it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning , do we need to mix it with the rest ? I don't know. You know ? The

Yeah. So I think you 'd need a separate  a separate set up


So suppose you can get an array in because there 's some person at Berkeley who 's interested and has some  equipment , uh , and suppose we can  as we save it we can , you know , transfer it off to some other place that  that holds this  this data , who 's interested , and even if ICSI it itself isn't. Um , and it  it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning , do we need to mix it with the rest ? I don't know. You know ? The

Yeah. So I think you 'd need a separate  a separate set up


So suppose you can get an array in because there 's some person at Berkeley who 's interested and has some  equipment , uh , and suppose we can  as we save it we can , you know , transfer it off to some other place that  that holds this  this data , who 's interested , and even if ICSI it itself isn't. Um , and it  it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning , do we need to mix it with the rest ? I don't know. You know ? The

Yeah. So I think you 'd need a separate  a separate set up

and the assumption that you could time align the two.


Yeah. So I think you 'd need a separate  a separate set up

and the assumption that you could time align the two.

I mean it 's just  it 's worth considering as sort of


and the assumption that you could time align the two.

I mean it 's just  it 's worth considering as sort of


and the assumption that you could time align the two.

I mean it 's just  it 's worth considering as sort of

once you make the up front investment  and can sort of save it out each time , and  and not have to worry about the disk space factor , then it mi it might be worth having the data.


I mean it 's just  it 's worth considering as sort of

once you make the up front investment  and can sort of save it out each time , and  and not have to worry about the disk space factor , then it mi it might be worth having the data.

I 'm not so much worried about disk space actually. I mentioned that , b as a practical matter ,


once you make the up front investment  and can sort of save it out each time , and  and not have to worry about the disk space factor , then it mi it might be worth having the data.

I 'm not so much worried about disk space actually. I mentioned that , b as a practical matter ,


once you make the up front investment  and can sort of save it out each time , and  and not have to worry about the disk space factor , then it mi it might be worth having the data.

I 'm not so much worried about disk space actually. I mentioned that , b as a practical matter ,

but the real issue is that , uh , there is no way to do a recording extended to what we have now with low skew. So  you would have a t completely separate set up ,


I 'm not so much worried about disk space actually. I mentioned that , b as a practical matter ,

but the real issue is that , uh , there is no way to do a recording extended to what we have now with low skew. So  you would have a t completely separate set up ,


but the real issue is that , uh , there is no way to do a recording extended to what we have now with low skew. So  you would have a t completely separate set up ,

which would mean that the sampling times and so forth would be all over the place compared to this. So it would depend on the level of pr processing you were doing later , but if you 're d i the kind of person who 's doing array processing you actually care about funny little times. And  and so you actually wou would want to have a completely different set up than we have ,


which would mean that the sampling times and so forth would be all over the place compared to this. So it would depend on the level of pr processing you were doing later , but if you 're d i the kind of person who 's doing array processing you actually care about funny little times. And  and so you actually wou would want to have a completely different set up than we have ,

one that would go up to thirty - two channels or something.


one that would go up to thirty - two channels or something.


or a hun Yeah. So , I 'm kinda skeptical , but um I think that


or a hun Yeah. So , I 'm kinda skeptical , but um I think that

So , uh , I don't think we can share the resource in that way. But what we could do is if there was someone else who 's interested they could have a separate set up which they wouldn't be trying to synch with ours which might be useful for  for them.


or a hun Yeah. So , I 'm kinda skeptical , but um I think that

So , uh , I don't think we can share the resource in that way. But what we could do is if there was someone else who 's interested they could have a separate set up which they wouldn't be trying to synch with ours which might be useful for  for them.

Right , I mean at least they 'd have the data and the transcripts ,


So , uh , I don't think we can share the resource in that way. But what we could do is if there was someone else who 's interested they could have a separate set up which they wouldn't be trying to synch with ours which might be useful for  for them.

Right , I mean at least they 'd have the data and the transcripts ,


Right , I mean at least they 'd have the data and the transcripts ,

Yeah , we can o offer the meetings , and the physical space , and  and  yeah , the transcripts , and so on.


Yeah , we can o offer the meetings , and the physical space , and  and  yeah , the transcripts , and so on.

OK. Right , I mean , just  it 'd be nice if we have more information on the same data. You know , and


Yeah , we can o offer the meetings , and the physical space , and  and  yeah , the transcripts , and so on.

OK. Right , I mean , just  it 'd be nice if we have more information on the same data. You know , and

But it 's  if it 's impossible or if it 's a lot of effort then you have to just balance the two ,


OK. Right , I mean , just  it 'd be nice if we have more information on the same data. You know , and

But it 's  if it 's impossible or if it 's a lot of effort then you have to just balance the two ,


But it 's  if it 's impossible or if it 's a lot of effort then you have to just balance the two ,


But it 's  if it 's impossible or if it 's a lot of effort then you have to just balance the two ,

yeah , the thing will be , u u in  in  again , in talking to these other people to see what  you know , what  what we can do.


yeah , the thing will be , u u in  in  again , in talking to these other people to see what  you know , what  what we can do.


yeah , the thing will be , u u in  in  again , in talking to these other people to see what  you know , what  what we can do.

Is there an interest in getting video recordings for these meetings ?


Is there an interest in getting video recordings for these meetings ?


Is there an interest in getting video recordings for these meetings ?

Yes , absolutely. But it 's exactly the same problem , that you have an infrastructure problem , you have a problem with people not wanting to be video taped , and you have the problem that no one who 's currently involved in the project is really hot to do it.


Yes , absolutely. But it 's exactly the same problem , that you have an infrastructure problem , you have a problem with people not wanting to be video taped , and you have the problem that no one who 's currently involved in the project is really hot to do it.

Hmm. So there 's not enough interest to overcome all of


Yes , absolutely. But it 's exactly the same problem , that you have an infrastructure problem , you have a problem with people not wanting to be video taped , and you have the problem that no one who 's currently involved in the project is really hot to do it.

Hmm. So there 's not enough interest to overcome all of

Right. Internally , but I know there is interest from other places that are interested in looking at meeting data and having the video. So it 's just


Hmm. So there 's not enough interest to overcome all of

Right. Internally , but I know there is interest from other places that are interested in looking at meeting data and having the video. So it 's just

Yeah , w although I  m  I  I have to u u mention the human subjects problems ,  that i increase with video.


Right. Internally , but I know there is interest from other places that are interested in looking at meeting data and having the video. So it 's just

Yeah , w although I  m  I  I have to u u mention the human subjects problems ,  that i increase with video.


Right. Internally , but I know there is interest from other places that are interested in looking at meeting data and having the video. So it 's just

Yeah , w although I  m  I  I have to u u mention the human subjects problems ,  that i increase with video.

Yeah , so it 's , uh , people  people getting shy about it.


Yeah , w although I  m  I  I have to u u mention the human subjects problems ,  that i increase with video.

Yeah , so it 's , uh , people  people getting shy about it.


Yeah , so it 's , uh , people  people getting shy about it.

There 's this human subjects problem. There 's the fact that then um , if  i I I 've heard comments about this before , " why don't you just put on a video camera ? " But you know , it 's sort of like saying , " uh , well we 're primarily interested in  in some dialogue things , uh , but , uh , why don't we just throw a microphone out there. " I mean , the thing is , once you actually have serious interest in any of these things then you actually have to put a lot of effort in.


There 's this human subjects problem. There 's the fact that then um , if  i I I 've heard comments about this before , " why don't you just put on a video camera ? " But you know , it 's sort of like saying , " uh , well we 're primarily interested in  in some dialogue things , uh , but , uh , why don't we just throw a microphone out there. " I mean , the thing is , once you actually have serious interest in any of these things then you actually have to put a lot of effort in.

And , uh , you really want to do it right.


And , uh , you really want to do it right.

So I think NIST or LDC , or somebody like that I think is much better shape to do all that. We  there will be other meeting recordings. We won't be the only place doing meeting recordings. We are doing what we 're doing.


So I think NIST or LDC , or somebody like that I think is much better shape to do all that. We  there will be other meeting recordings. We won't be the only place doing meeting recordings. We are doing what we 're doing.


So I think NIST or LDC , or somebody like that I think is much better shape to do all that. We  there will be other meeting recordings. We won't be the only place doing meeting recordings. We are doing what we 're doing.

I  it  it occurred to me , has Don signed a human subject 's form ?


I  it  it occurred to me , has Don signed a human subject 's form ?


I  it  it occurred to me , has Don signed a human subject 's form ?

Has Don  have you s did you si I thought you did actually.


Has Don  have you s did you si I thought you did actually.

I was   Yeah , I was  I was here  I was here before once.


I was   Yeah , I was  I was here  I was here before once.


I 'm pretty sure. Well I 'll  I 'll get another one before the end of the meeting.


You don't  you don't have to leave for it.


Yeah. You 're on recor you 're being recorded


Yeah. You 're on recor you 're being recorded

we don't  we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings ,


we don't  we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings ,

I don't care. You can do whatever you want with it.


I don't care. You can do whatever you want with it.


Transcriptions , OK. Um , I thought about  there are maybe three aspects of this. So first of all , um , I 've got eight transcribers. Uh , seven of them are linguists. One of them is a graduate student in psychology. Um , Each  I gave each of them , uh , their own data set. Two of them have already finished the data sets. And  the meetings run , you know , let 's say an hour. Sometimes as man much as an hour and a half.


Each  each person got their own meeting. I didn't want to have any conflicts of , you know , of  of when to stop transcribing this one or  So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose , and  and  and so


Each  each person got their own meeting. I didn't want to have any conflicts of , you know , of  of when to stop transcribing this one or  So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose , and  and  and so

And , uh , meetings , you know , I think that they 're  they go as long as a  almost two hours in some  in some cases. So , you know , that means  you know , if we 've got two already finished and they 're working on  Uh , right now all eight of them have differe uh , uh , additional data sets. That means potentially as many as ten might be finished by the end of the month.


And , uh , meetings , you know , I think that they 're  they go as long as a  almost two hours in some  in some cases. So , you know , that means  you know , if we 've got two already finished and they 're working on  Uh , right now all eight of them have differe uh , uh , additional data sets. That means potentially as many as ten might be finished by the end of the month.

Hope so. But the pre - segmentation really helps a huge amount.


Hope so. But the pre - segmentation really helps a huge amount.

And , uh , also Dan Ellis 's innovation of the , uh  the multi - channel to here really helped a r a lot in terms of clearing  clearing up h hearings that involve overlaps. But , um , just out of curiosity I asked one of them how long  it was taking her , one of these two who has already finished her data set. She said it takes about , uh , sixty minutes transcription for every five minutes of real time. So it 's about twelve to one , which is what we were thinking.


And , uh , also Dan Ellis 's innovation of the , uh  the multi - channel to here really helped a r a lot in terms of clearing  clearing up h hearings that involve overlaps. But , um , just out of curiosity I asked one of them how long  it was taking her , one of these two who has already finished her data set. She said it takes about , uh , sixty minutes transcription for every five minutes of real time. So it 's about twelve to one , which is what we were thinking.


OK. Uh , these still , when they 're finished , um , that means that they 're finished with their pass through. They still need to be edited and all but  But it 's word level , speaker change , the things that were mentioned. OK , now I wanted to mention the , um , teleconference I had with , uh , Jonathan Fiscus. We spoke for an hour and a half and , um , had an awful lot of things in common.


OK. Uh , these still , when they 're finished , um , that means that they 're finished with their pass through. They still need to be edited and all but  But it 's word level , speaker change , the things that were mentioned. OK , now I wanted to mention the , um , teleconference I had with , uh , Jonathan Fiscus. We spoke for an hour and a half and , um , had an awful lot of things in common.

He , um , um , he in indicated to me that they 've  that he 's been , uh , looking , uh , uh , spending a lot of time with  I 'm not quite sure the connection , but spending a lot of time with the ATLAS system. And I guess that  I mean , I  I need to read up on that. And there 's a web site that has lots of papers. But it looks to me like that 's the name that has developed for the system that Bird and Liberman developed  for the annotated  graphs approach.


He , um , um , he in indicated to me that they 've  that he 's been , uh , looking , uh , uh , spending a lot of time with  I 'm not quite sure the connection , but spending a lot of time with the ATLAS system. And I guess that  I mean , I  I need to read up on that. And there 's a web site that has lots of papers. But it looks to me like that 's the name that has developed for the system that Bird and Liberman developed  for the annotated  graphs approach.

So what he wants me to do and what we  what we will do and  uh , is to provide them with the u already transcribed meeting for him to be able to experiment with in this ATLAS System. And they do have some sort of software , at least that 's my impression , related to ATLAS and that he wants to experiment with taking our data and putting them in that format , and see how that works out. I  I  I explained to him in  in detail the , uh , conventions that we 're using here in this  in this word level transcript. And , um , you know , I  I explained , you know , the reasons that  that we were not coding more elaborately and  and the focus on reliability. He expressed a lot of interest in reliability. It 's like he 's  he 's really up on these things. He 's  he 's very  Um , independently he asked , " well what about reliability ? " So ,  he 's interested in the consistency of the encoding and that sort of thing. OK , um