Um , and then , it goes to a real wizard and they 're evaluating that. And they wanted to use this equipment , and so the w question came up , is  well , here 's some more data. Should this be part of the corpus or not ? And my attitude was yes , because there might be people who are using this corpus for  acoustics , as opposed to just for language. Um , or also for dialogue of various sorts. Um , so it 's not a meeting. Right ? Because it 's two people and they 're not face to face.

Wait a minute. So , I just wanted to understand it , cuz I  I 'm  uh , hadn't quite followed this process.


Um , and then , it goes to a real wizard and they 're evaluating that. And they wanted to use this equipment , and so the w question came up , is  well , here 's some more data. Should this be part of the corpus or not ? And my attitude was yes , because there might be people who are using this corpus for  acoustics , as opposed to just for language. Um , or also for dialogue of various sorts. Um , so it 's not a meeting. Right ? Because it 's two people and they 're not face to face.

Wait a minute. So , I just wanted to understand it , cuz I  I 'm  uh , hadn't quite followed this process.

Um. So , it 's wizard in the sen usual sense that the person who is asking the questions doesn't know that it 's , uh , a machi not a machine ?


Wait a minute. So , I just wanted to understand it , cuz I  I 'm  uh , hadn't quite followed this process.

Um. So , it 's wizard in the sen usual sense that the person who is asking the questions doesn't know that it 's , uh , a machi not a machine ?


Um. So , it 's wizard in the sen usual sense that the person who is asking the questions doesn't know that it 's , uh , a machi not a machine ?


Um. So , it 's wizard in the sen usual sense that the person who is asking the questions doesn't know that it 's , uh , a machi not a machine ?

Actually  actually , w w the  the  We do this  I dunno who came up with it , but I think it 's a really clever idea. We simulate a computer breakdown halfway through the session , and so then after that , the person 's told that they 're now talking to a , uh  to a human.


Actually  actually , w w the  the  We do this  I dunno who came up with it , but I think it 's a really clever idea. We simulate a computer breakdown halfway through the session , and so then after that , the person 's told that they 're now talking to a , uh  to a human.


But of course they don't know that it 's the same person both times.


But of course they don't know that it 's the same person both times.

So , we  we collect  we collect both human - computer and human - human data , essentially , in the same session.


But of course they don't know that it 's the same person both times.

So , we  we collect  we collect both human - computer and human - human data , essentially , in the same session.

You might wanna try collecting it the other way around sometime , saying that th the computer isn't up yet


So , we  we collect  we collect both human - computer and human - human data , essentially , in the same session.

You might wanna try collecting it the other way around sometime , saying that th the computer isn't up yet

and then  so then you can separate it out whether it 's the beginning or end kind of effects.


You might wanna try collecting it the other way around sometime , saying that th the computer isn't up yet

and then  so then you can separate it out whether it 's the beginning or end kind of effects.


and then  so then you can separate it out whether it 's the beginning or end kind of effects.


" I have to go now. You can talk to the computer. "


" I have to go now. You can talk to the computer. "

if you tell them that they 're  the computer part is running on a Windows machine. And the whole breakdown thing kinda makes sense.


if you tell them that they 're  the computer part is running on a Windows machine. And the whole breakdown thing kinda makes sense.


if you tell them that they 're  the computer part is running on a Windows machine. And the whole breakdown thing kinda makes sense.

So did they actually save the far - field  data ?


So did they actually save the far - field  data ?


So did they actually save the far - field  data ?

Cuz at first they weren't  they weren't sa


Cuz at first they weren't  they weren't sa


Cuz at first they weren't  they weren't sa

So  so they were saying they were not going to ,


So  so they were saying they were not going to ,


So  so they were saying they were not going to ,

and I said , " well that 's silly , if  if we 're gonna try to do it for a corpus , there might be people who are interested in acoustics. "


and I said , " well that 's silly , if  if we 're gonna try to do it for a corpus , there might be people who are interested in acoustics. "


projector  We were not saying we are not  doing it.


projector  We were not saying we are not  doing it.

No , the  the question is do we save one or two far - field channels or all of them ?


No , the  the question is do we save one or two far - field channels or all of them ?


No , the  the question is do we save one or two far - field channels or all of them ?

I  I see no reason not to do all of them.


I  I see no reason not to do all of them.


I  I see no reason not to do all of them.

That  that if we have someone who is doing acoustic studies , uh , it 's nice to have the same for every recording.


That  that if we have someone who is doing acoustic studies , uh , it 's nice to have the same for every recording.


That  that if we have someone who is doing acoustic studies , uh , it 's nice to have the same for every recording.

So , what is the purpose of this recording ?


So , what is the purpose of this recording ?


So , what is the purpose of this recording ?

This is to get acoustic and language model training data for SmartKom. OK.


So , what is the purpose of this recording ?

This is to get acoustic and language model training data for SmartKom. OK.

It 's to be traini to b training data and development data for the SmartKom  system.


This is to get acoustic and language model training data for SmartKom. OK.

It 's to be traini to b training data and development data for the SmartKom  system.


It 's to be traini to b training data and development data for the SmartKom  system.


Maybe we can have him vary the microphones , too ,


Maybe we can have him vary the microphones , too ,

Right. So  so  so for their usage , they don't need anything.


Right. So  so  so for their usage , they don't need anything.


But  but I 'm not sure about the legal aspect of  of that. Is  is there some contract with SmartKom or something about the data ?


But  but I 'm not sure about the legal aspect of  of that. Is  is there some contract with SmartKom or something about the data ?

What they  or , is  is that our data which we are collecting here ,


But  but I 'm not sure about the legal aspect of  of that. Is  is there some contract with SmartKom or something about the data ?

What they  or , is  is that our data which we are collecting here ,

We 've never signed anything that said that we couldn't use anything that we did.


What they  or , is  is that our data which we are collecting here ,

We 've never signed anything that said that we couldn't use anything that we did.


What they  or , is  is that our data which we are collecting here ,

We 've never signed anything that said that we couldn't use anything that we did.

We weren't supposed to collect any data.


We 've never signed anything that said that we couldn't use anything that we did.

We weren't supposed to collect any data.


We weren't supposed to collect any data.


I  L look , it seems to me that if we 're doing it anyway and we 're doing it for these  these purposes that we have ,  and we have these distant mikes , we definitely should re should save it all as long as we 've got disk space ,


Now th Yeah. So we save it because it 's  it  it 's potentially useful. And now , what do we do with it is  is a s separate question.


Now th Yeah. So we save it because it 's  it  it 's potentially useful. And now , what do we do with it is  is a s separate question.

I mean , anybody who 's training something up could  choose to put it  eh , to u include this or not.


I mean , anybody who 's training something up could  choose to put it  eh , to u include this or not.

I  I would not say it was part of the meetings corpus. It isn't. But it 's some other data we have , and if somebody doing experiment wants to train up including that then they can. Right ?


I  I would not say it was part of the meetings corpus. It isn't. But it 's some other data we have , and if somebody doing experiment wants to train up including that then they can. Right ?

So it 's  It  it  I guess it  the  begs the question of what is the meeting corpus. So if , at UW they start recording two - person hallway conversations is that part of the meeting corpus ?


I  I would not say it was part of the meetings corpus. It isn't. But it 's some other data we have , and if somebody doing experiment wants to train up including that then they can. Right ?

So it 's  It  it  I guess it  the  begs the question of what is the meeting corpus. So if , at UW they start recording two - person hallway conversations is that part of the meeting corpus ?

I think it 's  I  I think  I th think the idea of two or more people conversing with one another is key.


So it 's  It  it  I guess it  the  begs the question of what is the meeting corpus. So if , at UW they start recording two - person hallway conversations is that part of the meeting corpus ?

I think it 's  I  I think  I th think the idea of two or more people conversing with one another is key.

Well , this has two or more people conversing with each other.


I think it 's  I  I think  I th think the idea of two or more people conversing with one another is key.

Well , this has two or more people conversing with each other.


Well , this has two or more people conversing with each other.


What if we just give it a  a name like we give these meetings a name ?


What if we just give it a  a name like we give these meetings a name ?

And then later on some people will consider it a meeting and some people won't ,


And then later on some people will consider it a meeting and some people won't ,


And then later on some people will consider it a meeting and some people won't ,

That was my intention. So  so  s  so part of the reason that I wanted to bring this up is ,  do we wanna handle it as a special case or do we wanna fold it in ,


That was my intention. So  so  s  so part of the reason that I wanted to bring this up is ,  do we wanna handle it as a special case or do we wanna fold it in ,


we give everyone who 's involved as their own user ID , give it session I Ds ,  let all the tools that handle Meeting Recorder handle it , or do we wanna special case it ? And if we were gonna special case it , who 's gonna do that ?


we give everyone who 's involved as their own user ID , give it session I Ds ,  let all the tools that handle Meeting Recorder handle it , or do we wanna special case it ? And if we were gonna special case it , who 's gonna do that ?

Well , it  it makes sense to handle it with the same infrastructure , since we don't want to duplicate things unnecessarily.


Well , it  it makes sense to handle it with the same infrastructure , since we don't want to duplicate things unnecessarily.


Well , it  it makes sense to handle it with the same infrastructure , since we don't want to duplicate things unnecessarily.

But as far as distributing it , we shouldn't label it as part of this meeting corpus.


But as far as distributing it , we shouldn't label it as part of this meeting corpus.


I don't see why not. It 's just a different topic.


I don't see why not. It 's just a different topic.

I ha I have an extra point , which is the naturalness issue. Because we have , like , meetings that have a reason. That 's one of the reasons that we were talking about this. And  and those  and this sounds like it 's more of an experimental setup.


I ha I have an extra point , which is the naturalness issue. Because we have , like , meetings that have a reason. That 's one of the reasons that we were talking about this. And  and those  and this sounds like it 's more of an experimental setup.

It 's scenario - based , it 's  it 's human - computer interface   it 's really pretty different.


It 's scenario - based , it 's  it 's human - computer interface   it 's really pretty different.


It 's scenario - based , it 's  it 's human - computer interface   it 's really pretty different.

But I I  I have no problem with somebody folding it in for some experiment they 're gonna do , but I don't think i it  it doesn't match anything that we 've described about meetings.


But I I  I have no problem with somebody folding it in for some experiment they 're gonna do , but I don't think i it  it doesn't match anything that we 've described about meetings.

Whereas everything that we talked about them doing at  at UW and so forth really does. They 're actually talking


But I I  I have no problem with somebody folding it in for some experiment they 're gonna do , but I don't think i it  it doesn't match anything that we 've described about meetings.

Whereas everything that we talked about them doing at  at UW and so forth really does. They 're actually talking

OK. So w so what does that mean for how we are gonna organize things ?


Whereas everything that we talked about them doing at  at UW and so forth really does. They 're actually talking

OK. So w so what does that mean for how we are gonna organize things ?


OK. So w so what does that mean for how we are gonna organize things ?

You can  you can  Again , as  as I think Andreas was saying ,  if you wanna use the same tools and the same conventions , there 's no problem with that. It 's just that it 's , you know , different directory , it 's called something different , it 's  you know. It is different. You can't just fold it in as if it 's  I mean , digits are different , too. Right ?


You can  you can  Again , as  as I think Andreas was saying ,  if you wanna use the same tools and the same conventions , there 's no problem with that. It 's just that it 's , you know , different directory , it 's called something different , it 's  you know. It is different. You can't just fold it in as if it 's  I mean , digits are different , too. Right ?


You can  you can  Again , as  as I think Andreas was saying ,  if you wanna use the same tools and the same conventions , there 's no problem with that. It 's just that it 's , you know , different directory , it 's called something different , it 's  you know. It is different. You can't just fold it in as if it 's  I mean , digits are different , too. Right ?

and it 's just  you just mark the transcripts differently. So  so one option is you fold it in ,


and it 's just  you just mark the transcripts differently. So  so one option is you fold it in ,


and it 's just  you just mark the transcripts differently. So  so one option is you fold it in ,

and just simply in the file you mark somewhere that this is this type of interaction , rather than another type of interaction.


and just simply in the file you mark somewhere that this is this type of interaction , rather than another type of interaction.

Well , I don I wouldn't call reading digits " meetings ". Right ? I mean , we  we  we were doing


and just simply in the file you mark somewhere that this is this type of interaction , rather than another type of interaction.

Well , I don I wouldn't call reading digits " meetings ". Right ? I mean , we  we  we were doing

Well , but  but ,  I put it under the same directory tree.


Well , I don I wouldn't call reading digits " meetings ". Right ? I mean , we  we  we were doing

Well , but  but ,  I put it under the same directory tree.


Well , I don I wouldn't call reading digits " meetings ". Right ? I mean , we  we  we were doing

Well , but  but ,  I put it under the same directory tree.

You know , it 's in " user doctor speech data MR ".


Well , but  but ,  I put it under the same directory tree.

You know , it 's in " user doctor speech data MR ".

Can we just have a directory called , like , " other stuff " ?


You know , it 's in " user doctor speech data MR ".

Can we just have a directory called , like , " other stuff " ?


Can we just have a directory called , like , " other stuff " ?

I mean , I don't care what directory tree you have it under.


I mean , I don't care what directory tree you have it under.


I mean , I don't care what directory tree you have it under.

OK. My preference is to have a single procedure so that I don't have to think too much about things.


OK. My preference is to have a single procedure so that I don't have to think too much about things.


O - You  you can use whatever procedure you want that 's p convenient for you.


O - You  you can use whatever procedure you want that 's p convenient for you.

If we do it any other way that means that we need a separate procedure , and someone has to do that.


O - You  you can use whatever procedure you want that 's p convenient for you.

If we do it any other way that means that we need a separate procedure , and someone has to do that.

All I 'm saying is that there 's no way that we 're gonna tell people that reading digits is meetings. And similarly we 're not gonna tell them that someone talking to a computer to get travel information is meetings.


If we do it any other way that means that we need a separate procedure , and someone has to do that.

All I 'm saying is that there 's no way that we 're gonna tell people that reading digits is meetings. And similarly we 're not gonna tell them that someone talking to a computer to get travel information is meetings.

Those aren't meetings. But if it makes it easier for you to pu fold them in the same procedures and have them under the same directory tree , knock yourself out.


All I 'm saying is that there 's no way that we 're gonna tell people that reading digits is meetings. And similarly we 're not gonna tell them that someone talking to a computer to get travel information is meetings.

Those aren't meetings. But if it makes it easier for you to pu fold them in the same procedures and have them under the same directory tree , knock yourself out.

There 's a couple other questions that I have too ,


Those aren't meetings. But if it makes it easier for you to pu fold them in the same procedures and have them under the same directory tree , knock yourself out.

There 's a couple other questions that I have too ,


Those aren't meetings. But if it makes it easier for you to pu fold them in the same procedures and have them under the same directory tree , knock yourself out.

There 's a couple other questions that I have too ,

and  and  one of them is , what about , uh , consent issues ? And the other one is , what about transcription ? Are  ?


There 's a couple other questions that I have too ,

and  and  one of them is , what about , uh , consent issues ? And the other one is , what about transcription ? Are  ?


and  and  one of them is , what about , uh , consent issues ? And the other one is , what about transcription ? Are  ?

OK. So we don't have to worry about transcribing it ?


OK. So we don't have to worry about transcribing it ?


OK. So we don't have to worry about transcribing it ?

So , w we will hafta worry about format.


So , w we will hafta worry about format.

That 's a  that 's another argument to keep it separate , because it 's gonna follow the SmartKom transcription conventions and not the ICSI meeting transcription conventions.


That 's a  that 's another argument to keep it separate , because it 's gonna follow the SmartKom transcription conventions and not the ICSI meeting transcription conventions.


OK. Well , I didn't realize that. That 's  that 's a


OK. Well , I didn't realize that. That 's  that 's a

Good point. But I 'm sure no one would have a problem with our folding it in for some acoustic modeling or  or some things. Um. Do we h do we have , uh , um , American - born folk , uh , reading German  German , uh , pla uh , place names and so forth ? Is that  ?


Good point. But I 'm sure no one would have a problem with our folding it in for some acoustic modeling or  or some things. Um. Do we h do we have , uh , um , American - born folk , uh , reading German  German , uh , pla uh , place names and so forth ? Is that  ?


Disk might eventually be an issue so we might  we  we might need to , uh ,  get some more disk pretty soon.


We 're about  we 're about half  halfway through our disk right now.


We 're about  we 're about half  halfway through our disk right now.

Are we only half ? I thought we were more than that.


Are we only half ? I thought we were more than that.

We 're probably a little more than that because we 're using up some space that we shouldn't be on. So , once everything gets converted over to the disks we 're supposed to be using we 'll be probably , uh , seventy - five percent.


Are we only half ? I thought we were more than that.

We 're probably a little more than that because we 're using up some space that we shouldn't be on. So , once everything gets converted over to the disks we 're supposed to be using we 'll be probably , uh , seventy - five percent.

Well , when I was looking for space for Thilo , I found one disk that had , uh , I think it was nine gigs and another one had seventeen.


We 're probably a little more than that because we 're using up some space that we shouldn't be on. So , once everything gets converted over to the disks we 're supposed to be using we 'll be probably , uh , seventy - five percent.

Well , when I was looking for space for Thilo , I found one disk that had , uh , I think it was nine gigs and another one had seventeen.

And everything else was sorta committed. Uh


Well , when I was looking for space for Thilo , I found one disk that had , uh , I think it was nine gigs and another one had seventeen.

And everything else was sorta committed. Uh

Were those backed - up or non - backed - up ?


And everything else was sorta committed. Uh

Were those backed - up or non - backed - up ?


Were those backed - up or non - backed - up ?


S oh , you 're talking about backed - up.


S oh , you 're talking about backed - up.

I 'm much more concerned about the backed - up. The non - backed - up ,


S oh , you 're talking about backed - up.

I 'm much more concerned about the backed - up. The non - backed - up ,

I haven't looked to see how much of that we have.


S oh , you 're talking about backed - up.

I 'm much more concerned about the backed - up. The non - backed - up ,

I haven't looked to see how much of that we have.

yeah , i is cheap. I mean , if we need to we can buy a disk , hang it off a s uh , workstation. If it 's not backed - up the sysadmins don't care too much.


I 'm much more concerned about the backed - up. The non - backed - up ,

I haven't looked to see how much of that we have.

yeah , i is cheap. I mean , if we need to we can buy a disk , hang it off a s uh , workstation. If it 's not backed - up the sysadmins don't care too much.

Yeah. So , I mean , pretty much anytime we need a disk , we can get it at the rate that we 're


I haven't looked to see how much of that we have.

yeah , i is cheap. I mean , if we need to we can buy a disk , hang it off a s uh , workstation. If it 's not backed - up the sysadmins don't care too much.

Yeah. So , I mean , pretty much anytime we need a disk , we can get it at the rate that we 're

You can  I shouldn't be saying this , but , you can just  you know , since the back - ups are every night , you can recycle the backed - up diskspace.


yeah , i is cheap. I mean , if we need to we can buy a disk , hang it off a s uh , workstation. If it 's not backed - up the sysadmins don't care too much.

Yeah. So , I mean , pretty much anytime we need a disk , we can get it at the rate that we 're

You can  I shouldn't be saying this , but , you can just  you know , since the back - ups are every night , you can recycle the backed - up diskspace.

Yeah. But that 's  that 's   that 's risky.


Yeah. So , I mean , pretty much anytime we need a disk , we can get it at the rate that we 're

You can  I shouldn't be saying this , but , you can just  you know , since the back - ups are every night , you can recycle the backed - up diskspace.

Yeah. But that 's  that 's   that 's risky.


You can  I shouldn't be saying this , but , you can just  you know , since the back - ups are every night , you can recycle the backed - up diskspace.

Yeah. But that 's  that 's   that 's risky.


Yeah. But that 's  that 's   that 's risky.


Da - we had allowed Dave to listen to these   these ,  uh , recordings.


Da - we had allowed Dave to listen to these   these ,  uh , recordings.

Um   Yeah , I me and there 's been this conversation going on about getting another file server , and  and  we can do that.


Um   Yeah , I me and there 's been this conversation going on about getting another file server , and  and  we can do that.

We 'll take the opportunity and get another big raft of   of disk , I guess.


Um   Yeah , I me and there 's been this conversation going on about getting another file server , and  and  we can do that.

We 'll take the opportunity and get another big raft of   of disk , I guess.

Yeah. It 's really the back - up issue rather than the file server issue.


We 'll take the opportunity and get another big raft of   of disk , I guess.

Yeah. It 's really the back - up issue rather than the file server issue.

Well , I think   I think there 's an argument for having  you know , you could use our old file server for  for disks that have data that  is very rarely accessed , and then have a fast new file server for data that is , um , heavily accessed.


We 'll take the opportunity and get another big raft of   of disk , I guess.

Yeah. It 's really the back - up issue rather than the file server issue.

Well , I think   I think there 's an argument for having  you know , you could use our old file server for  for disks that have data that  is very rarely accessed , and then have a fast new file server for data that is , um , heavily accessed.

Yeah. My understanding is , the issue isn't really the file server.


Yeah. It 's really the back - up issue rather than the file server issue.

Well , I think   I think there 's an argument for having  you know , you could use our old file server for  for disks that have data that  is very rarely accessed , and then have a fast new file server for data that is , um , heavily accessed.

Yeah. My understanding is , the issue isn't really the file server.


Well , I think   I think there 's an argument for having  you know , you could use our old file server for  for disks that have data that  is very rarely accessed , and then have a fast new file server for data that is , um , heavily accessed.

Yeah. My understanding is , the issue isn't really the file server.


Yeah. My understanding is , the issue isn't really the file server.

Yeah. It 's the back it 's the back - up capaci


Yeah. It 's the back it 's the back - up capaci


Yeah. It 's the back it 's the back - up capaci

So  which is near saturation , apparently. So.


So  which is near saturation , apparently. So.

I think  I think the file server could become an issue as we get a whole bunch more new compute machines.


So  which is near saturation , apparently. So.

I think  I think the file server could become an issue as we get a whole bunch more new compute machines.

And we 've got , you know , fifty machines trying to access data off of Abbott at once.


I think  I think the file server could become an issue as we get a whole bunch more new compute machines.

And we 've got , you know , fifty machines trying to access data off of Abbott at once.

Well , we 're alright for now because the network 's so slow.


And we 've got , you know , fifty machines trying to access data off of Abbott at once.

Well , we 're alright for now because the network 's so slow.

I mean , I think  I think we 've raised this before and someone said this is not a reliable way to do it , but the  What about putting the stuff on , like , C - CD - ROM or DVD or something ?


And we 've got , you know , fifty machines trying to access data off of Abbott at once.

Well , we 're alright for now because the network 's so slow.

I mean , I think  I think we 've raised this before and someone said this is not a reliable way to do it , but the  What about putting the stuff on , like , C - CD - ROM or DVD or something ?

Yeah. That was me. I was the one who said it was not reliable. The - they  they wear out.


Well , we 're alright for now because the network 's so slow.

I mean , I think  I think we 've raised this before and someone said this is not a reliable way to do it , but the  What about putting the stuff on , like , C - CD - ROM or DVD or something ?

Yeah. That was me. I was the one who said it was not reliable. The - they  they wear out.


I mean , I think  I think we 've raised this before and someone said this is not a reliable way to do it , but the  What about putting the stuff on , like , C - CD - ROM or DVD or something ?

Yeah. That was me. I was the one who said it was not reliable. The - they  they wear out.


Yeah. That was me. I was the one who said it was not reliable. The - they  they wear out.

But they wear out just from sitting on the shelf ?


But they wear out just from sitting on the shelf ?


But they wear out just from sitting on the shelf ?

No. Read and write don't hurt them too much unless you scratch them.


No. Read and write don't hurt them too much unless you scratch them.


No. Read and write don't hurt them too much unless you scratch them.

But the r the write once , and the read - writes , don't last. So you don't wa you don't wanna put ir un reproduceable data  on them.


But the r the write once , and the read - writes , don't last. So you don't wa you don't wanna put ir un reproduceable data  on them.


But if that  then you would think you 'd  hear much more clamoring about data loss


I  I don't know many people who do it on CD. I mean , they 're  the most  fo


I  I don't know many people who do it on CD. I mean , they 're  the most  fo

LDC - all the LDC distributions are on CD - ROM.


I  I don't know many people who do it on CD. I mean , they 're  the most  fo

LDC - all the LDC distributions are on CD - ROM.

They 're on CD , but they 're not  tha that 's not the only source.


LDC - all the LDC distributions are on CD - ROM.

They 're on CD , but they 're not  tha that 's not the only source.


They 're on CD , but they 're not  tha that 's not the only source.

They have them on disk. And they burn new ones every once in a while. But if you go   if you go k


They have them on disk. And they burn new ones every once in a while. But if you go   if you go k

But we have like thirty  you know , from  ten years ago ?


They have them on disk. And they burn new ones every once in a while. But if you go   if you go k

But we have like thirty  you know , from  ten years ago ?

We have all sorts of CD - ROMs from a long time ago.


But we have like thirty  you know , from  ten years ago ?

We have all sorts of CD - ROMs from a long time ago.


We have all sorts of CD - ROMs from a long time ago.


Ninety - one , and they 're still all fine.


Ninety - one , and they 're still all fine.

Uh , both. I 've burned them and they 're still OK.


Uh , both. I 've burned them and they 're still OK.


well , not forever , they 've been finding even those degrade.


well , not forever , they 've been finding even those degrade.

But , uh , the burned ones  I mean , when I say two or three years what I 'm saying is that I have had disks which are gone in a year.


But , uh , the burned ones  I mean , when I say two or three years what I 'm saying is that I have had disks which are gone in a year.

On the average , it 'll probably be three or four years. But , uh  I  I  you don't want to per p have your only copy on a media that fails.


On the average , it 'll probably be three or four years. But , uh  I  I  you don't want to per p have your only copy on a media that fails.

And they do. Um , if you have them professionally pressed , y you know , they 're good for decades.


On the average , it 'll probably be three or four years. But , uh  I  I  you don't want to per p have your only copy on a media that fails.

And they do. Um , if you have them professionally pressed , y you know , they 're good for decades.

So how about  ? So  so how about putting them on that plus , like on a  on  on DAT or some other medium that isn't risky ?


And they do. Um , if you have them professionally pressed , y you know , they 're good for decades.

So how about  ? So  so how about putting them on that plus , like on a  on  on DAT or some other medium that isn't risky ?

I think th um , we can already put them on tape. And the tape is hi is very reliable.


So how about  ? So  so how about putting them on that plus , like on a  on  on DAT or some other medium that isn't risky ?

I think th um , we can already put them on tape. And the tape is hi is very reliable.

So the  the only issue is then  if we need access to them. So that 's fine f if we don't need access to them.


I think th um , we can already put them on tape. And the tape is hi is very reliable.

So the  the only issue is then  if we need access to them. So that 's fine f if we don't need access to them.

Right. Well , if  if  if you  if they last  Say , they actually last , like , five years , huh , in  in the typical case , and  and occasionally you might need to recreate one , and then you get your tape out , but otherwise you don't. Can't you just  you just put them on  ?


So the  the only issue is then  if we need access to them. So that 's fine f if we don't need access to them.

Right. Well , if  if  if you  if they last  Say , they actually last , like , five years , huh , in  in the typical case , and  and occasionally you might need to recreate one , and then you get your tape out , but otherwise you don't. Can't you just  you just put them on  ?

So you just archive it on the tape , and then put it on CD as well ?


Right. Well , if  if  if you  if they last  Say , they actually last , like , five years , huh , in  in the typical case , and  and occasionally you might need to recreate one , and then you get your tape out , but otherwise you don't. Can't you just  you just put them on  ?

So you just archive it on the tape , and then put it on CD as well ?

Oh. So you 're just saying put them on C Ds for normal access.


So you just archive it on the tape , and then put it on CD as well ?

Oh. So you 're just saying put them on C Ds for normal access.


Oh. So you 're just saying put them on C Ds for normal access.


Yeah. I mean , you can do that but that 's pretty annoying , because the C Ds are so slow.


What 'd be nice is a system that re - burned the C Ds every  year.


What 'd be nice is a system that re - burned the C Ds every  year.

H everytime it was a " gonna "  " gonna die ".


H everytime it was a " gonna "  " gonna die ".


Just before they be before it goes bad , it burns them in.


Just before they be before it goes bad , it burns them in.

ICSI already has a perfectly good tape system and it 's more reliable.


ICSI already has a perfectly good tape system and it 's more reliable.


ICSI already has a perfectly good tape system and it 's more reliable.

So for archiving , we 'll just use tape.


ICSI already has a perfectly good tape system and it 's more reliable.

So for archiving , we 'll just use tape.

One  one thing I don't understand is , if you have the data  if  if you if the meeting data is put on disk exactly once , then it 's backed - up once and the back - up system should never have to bother with it , uh , more than once.


So for archiving , we 'll just use tape.

One  one thing I don't understand is , if you have the data  if  if you if the meeting data is put on disk exactly once , then it 's backed - up once and the back - up system should never have to bother with it , uh , more than once.

Well , regardless  Well , first of all there was , um , a problem with the archive in that I was every once in a while doing a chmod on all the directories an or recursive chmod and chown , because  they weren't getting set correctly every once in a while ,


One  one thing I don't understand is , if you have the data  if  if you if the meeting data is put on disk exactly once , then it 's backed - up once and the back - up system should never have to bother with it , uh , more than once.

Well , regardless  Well , first of all there was , um , a problem with the archive in that I was every once in a while doing a chmod on all the directories an or recursive chmod and chown , because  they weren't getting set correctly every once in a while ,

and I was just ,  doing a minus R star ,  not realizing that that caused  it to be re - backed - up.


Well , regardless  Well , first of all there was , um , a problem with the archive in that I was every once in a while doing a chmod on all the directories an or recursive chmod and chown , because  they weren't getting set correctly every once in a while ,

and I was just ,  doing a minus R star ,  not realizing that that caused  it to be re - backed - up.


and I was just ,  doing a minus R star ,  not realizing that that caused  it to be re - backed - up.


and I was just ,  doing a minus R star ,  not realizing that that caused  it to be re - backed - up.

But normally you 're correct. But even without that , the back - up system is becoming saturated.


But normally you 're correct. But even without that , the back - up system is becoming saturated.

But  but this back - up system is smart enough to figure out that something hasn't changed and doesn't need to be  backed - up again.


But normally you 're correct. But even without that , the back - up system is becoming saturated.

But  but this back - up system is smart enough to figure out that something hasn't changed and doesn't need to be  backed - up again.

The b I think th the  at least the once tha that you put it on , it would   it would   kill that.


But normally you 're correct. But even without that , the back - up system is becoming saturated.

But  but this back - up system is smart enough to figure out that something hasn't changed and doesn't need to be  backed - up again.

The b I think th the  at least the once tha that you put it on , it would   it would   kill that.

Sure , but we still have enough changed that the nightly back - ups are starting to take too long.


But  but this back - up system is smart enough to figure out that something hasn't changed and doesn't need to be  backed - up again.

The b I think th the  at least the once tha that you put it on , it would   it would   kill that.

Sure , but we still have enough changed that the nightly back - ups are starting to take too long.

OK. So  so then , if  So  so then , let 's


The b I think th the  at least the once tha that you put it on , it would   it would   kill that.

Sure , but we still have enough changed that the nightly back - ups are starting to take too long.

OK. So  so then , if  So  so then , let 's


Sure , but we still have enough changed that the nightly back - ups are starting to take too long.

OK. So  so then , if  So  so then , let 's

It has nothing to do with the meeting. It 's just the general ICSI back - up system is becoming saturated.


OK. So  so then , if  So  so then , let 's

It has nothing to do with the meeting. It 's just the general ICSI back - up system is becoming saturated.

Right. OK. Right. So , what if we buy , uh  uh , what  what do they call these , um  high density  ?


It has nothing to do with the meeting. It 's just the general ICSI back - up system is becoming saturated.

Right. OK. Right. So , what if we buy , uh  uh , what  what do they call these , um  high density  ?

Well , why don't you have this  have a  this conversation with Dave Johnson tha rather than with me ?


It has nothing to do with the meeting. It 's just the general ICSI back - up system is becoming saturated.

Right. OK. Right. So , what if we buy , uh  uh , what  what do they call these , um  high density  ?

Well , why don't you have this  have a  this conversation with Dave Johnson tha rather than with me ?

No , no. Because this is  maybe something that we can do without involving Dave , and  and , putting more burden on him. How about we buy , uh  uh  uh , one of these high density tape drives ? And we put the data actually on non - backed - up disks. And we do our own back - up once and for all  all , and then  and we don't have to bother this @ @ up ?


Right. OK. Right. So , what if we buy , uh  uh , what  what do they call these , um  high density  ?

Well , why don't you have this  have a  this conversation with Dave Johnson tha rather than with me ?

No , no. Because this is  maybe something that we can do without involving Dave , and  and , putting more burden on him. How about we buy , uh  uh  uh , one of these high density tape drives ? And we put the data actually on non - backed - up disks. And we do our own back - up once and for all  all , and then  and we don't have to bother this @ @ up ?

Actually , you know , we could do that just with the tape  with the current tape.


Well , why don't you have this  have a  this conversation with Dave Johnson tha rather than with me ?

No , no. Because this is  maybe something that we can do without involving Dave , and  and , putting more burden on him. How about we buy , uh  uh  uh , one of these high density tape drives ? And we put the data actually on non - backed - up disks. And we do our own back - up once and for all  all , and then  and we don't have to bother this @ @ up ?

Actually , you know , we could do that just with the tape  with the current tape.

I dunno what the these tapes  uh , at some point these  I dunno. What kind of tape drive is it ?


No , no. Because this is  maybe something that we can do without involving Dave , and  and , putting more burden on him. How about we buy , uh  uh  uh , one of these high density tape drives ? And we put the data actually on non - backed - up disks. And we do our own back - up once and for all  all , and then  and we don't have to bother this @ @ up ?

Actually , you know , we could do that just with the tape  with the current tape.

I dunno what the these tapes  uh , at some point these  I dunno. What kind of tape drive is it ?

I dunno but it 's an automatic robot so it 's very convenient.


Actually , you know , we could do that just with the tape  with the current tape.

I dunno what the these tapes  uh , at some point these  I dunno. What kind of tape drive is it ?

I dunno but it 's an automatic robot so it 's very convenient.


I dunno what the these tapes  uh , at some point these  I dunno. What kind of tape drive is it ?

I dunno but it 's an automatic robot so it 's very convenient.


I dunno but it 's an automatic robot so it 's very convenient.


But it might interfere with their back - up schedule ,


But it might interfere with their back - up schedule ,

No , we have s we  Don't we have our own ?


No , we have s we  Don't we have our own ?

Something wi th that doesn't  that isn't used by the back - up gang ? Don't we have something downstairs ?


Something wi th that doesn't  that isn't used by the back - up gang ? Don't we have something downstairs ?


Well  but  no , but Andreas 's point is a good one. And we don't have to do anything ourselves to do that. They 're already right now on tape.


Well  but  no , but Andreas 's point is a good one. And we don't have to do anything ourselves to do that. They 're already right now on tape.

Right. So your  your point is , and I think it 's a good one , that we could just get more disk and put it there.


Well  but  no , but Andreas 's point is a good one. And we don't have to do anything ourselves to do that. They 're already right now on tape.

Right. So your  your point is , and I think it 's a good one , that we could just get more disk and put it there.

Mmm. On an XH  uh , X  X whatever partition.


Right. So your  your point is , and I think it 's a good one , that we could just get more disk and put it there.

Mmm. On an XH  uh , X  X whatever partition.


Mmm. On an XH  uh , X  X whatever partition.

Yeah , that 's basically what I was gonna say , is that a disk is  is so cheap it 's es essentially , you know , close to free. And the only thing that costs is the back - up  issue ,  eh , to first order.


Yeah , that 's basically what I was gonna say , is that a disk is  is so cheap it 's es essentially , you know , close to free. And the only thing that costs is the back - up  issue ,  eh , to first order.


Yeah , that 's basically what I was gonna say , is that a disk is  is so cheap it 's es essentially , you know , close to free. And the only thing that costs is the back - up  issue ,  eh , to first order.

And we can take care of that by putting it on non - back  up drives and just backing it up once onto this tape.


And we can take care of that by putting it on non - back  up drives and just backing it up once onto this tape.


So , who 's gonna do these back - ups ? The people that collect it ?


So , who 's gonna do these back - ups ? The people that collect it ?

Uh Well , I 'll talk to Dave , and  and see what th how   what the best way of doing that is.


So , who 's gonna do these back - ups ? The people that collect it ?

Uh Well , I 'll talk to Dave , and  and see what th how   what the best way of doing that is.

There 's a little utility that will manually burn a tape for you , and that 's probably the right way to do it.


Uh Well , I 'll talk to Dave , and  and see what th how   what the best way of doing that is.

There 's a little utility that will manually burn a tape for you , and that 's probably the right way to do it.

Yeah , and we should probably make that part of the procedure for recording the meetings.


There 's a little utility that will manually burn a tape for you , and that 's probably the right way to do it.

Yeah , and we should probably make that part of the procedure for recording the meetings.


Yeah , and we should probably make that part of the procedure for recording the meetings.


Well  we 're g we 're gonna automate that.


Well  we 're g we 're gonna automate that.

My intention is to  do a script that 'll do everything.


Well  we 're g we 're gonna automate that.

My intention is to  do a script that 'll do everything.

I mean , you don't have to physically put a tape in the drive ?


My intention is to  do a script that 'll do everything.

I mean , you don't have to physically put a tape in the drive ?


I mean , you don't have to physically put a tape in the drive ?

so you just sit down at your computer and you type a command.


so you just sit down at your computer and you type a command.


so you just sit down at your computer and you type a command.

Yeah , but then you 're effectively using the resources of the back - up system. Or is that a different tape robot ?


Yeah , but then you 're effectively using the resources of the back - up system. Or is that a different tape robot ?


He 's saying get a whole different drive.


It  we already have it there and it  it 's


It  we already have it there and it  it 's

Well , I 'm saying is @ @ i if you go to Dave , and  and  and ask him " can I use your tape robot ? " , he will say , " well  that 's gonna screw up our back - up operation. "


It  we already have it there and it  it 's

Well , I 'm saying is @ @ i if you go to Dave , and  and  and ask him " can I use your tape robot ? " , he will say , " well  that 's gonna screw up our back - up operation. "

No , we won't. He 'll say " if  if that means  that it 's not gonna be backed - up standardly , great. "


It  we already have it there and it  it 's

Well , I 'm saying is @ @ i if you go to Dave , and  and  and ask him " can I use your tape robot ? " , he will say , " well  that 's gonna screw up our back - up operation. "

No , we won't. He 'll say " if  if that means  that it 's not gonna be backed - up standardly , great. "

He - I  Dave has  has promoted this in the past. So I don't think he 's actually against it.


Well , I 'm saying is @ @ i if you go to Dave , and  and  and ask him " can I use your tape robot ? " , he will say , " well  that 's gonna screw up our back - up operation. "

No , we won't. He 'll say " if  if that means  that it 's not gonna be backed - up standardly , great. "

He - I  Dave has  has promoted this in the past. So I don't think he 's actually against it.

Yeah. It 's  it 's definitely no problem.


No , we won't. He 'll say " if  if that means  that it 's not gonna be backed - up standardly , great. "

He - I  Dave has  has promoted this in the past. So I don't think he 's actually against it.

Yeah. It 's  it 's definitely no problem.


He - I  Dave has  has promoted this in the past. So I don't think he 's actually against it.

Yeah. It 's  it 's definitely no problem.


Yeah. It 's  it 's definitely no problem.


What about if the times overlap with the normal back - up time ?


What about if the times overlap with the normal back - up time ?

Um , it 's  it 's just  it 's just a utility which queues up. It just queues it up and  and when it 's available , it will copy it.


Um , it 's  it 's just  it 's just a utility which queues up. It just queues it up and  and when it 's available , it will copy it.

And then you can tell it to then remove it from the disk or you can , you know , do it a a few days later or whatever you wanna do , after you confirm that it 's really backed - up.


And then you can tell it to then remove it from the disk or you can , you know , do it a a few days later or whatever you wanna do , after you confirm that it 's really backed - up.


Yep   And if you did that during the day it would never make it to the nightly back - ups.


And then there wouldn't be this extra load.


And then there wouldn't be this extra load.

Well , it  if he  you have to put the data on a  on a non - backed - up disk to begin with.


And then there wouldn't be this extra load.

Well , it  if he  you have to put the data on a  on a non - backed - up disk to begin with.

Well , but you can have it NW archive to  you can have ,  uh , a non - backed - up disk NW archived ,


Well , it  if he  you have to put the data on a  on a non - backed - up disk to begin with.

Well , but you can have it NW archive to  you can have ,  uh , a non - backed - up disk NW archived ,

So that  so that  otherwise you don't  you


Well , but you can have it NW archive to  you can have ,  uh , a non - backed - up disk NW archived ,

So that  so that  otherwise you don't  you

and it 'll never show up on the nightly back - ups.


So that  so that  otherwise you don't  you

and it 'll never show up on the nightly back - ups.


and it 'll never show up on the nightly back - ups.

Right. Which I 'm sure would make ever the sysadmins very happy.


Right. Which I 'm sure would make ever the sysadmins very happy.


So , that means we 'll probably wanna convert all  all those files  filesystems to non - backed - up media.


Um , another , thing on the agenda said SRI recognition experiments ? What 's that ?


we have lots of them. Uh , I dunno. Chuck , do you have any  any updates ?


we have lots of them. Uh , I dunno. Chuck , do you have any  any updates ?

N I 'm successfully , uh , increasing the error rate. Uh


N I 'm successfully , uh , increasing the error rate. Uh


Yeah. So , I mean I 'm just playing with , um , the number of Gaussians that we use in the  the recognizer , and


Yeah. So , I mean I 'm just playing with , um , the number of Gaussians that we use in the  the recognizer , and

Well , you have to sa you have to  tell people that you 're  you 're doing  you 're trying the tandem features.


Well , you have to sa you have to  tell people that you 're  you 're doing  you 're trying the tandem features.


A and I 'm still tinkering with the PLP features.


A and I 'm still tinkering with the PLP features.

Yeah , I got confused by the results. It sai because  uh , the  meeting before ,  you said " OK , we got it down to where they 're  they 're within a tenth of a percent ".


A and I 'm still tinkering with the PLP features.

Yeah , I got confused by the results. It sai because  uh , the  meeting before ,  you said " OK , we got it down to where they 're  they 're within a tenth of a percent ".

Right. That was  that was before I tried it on the females.


Yeah , I got confused by the results. It sai because  uh , the  meeting before ,  you said " OK , we got it down to where they 're  they 're within a tenth of a percent ".

Right. That was  that was before I tried it on the females.


Right. That was  that was before I tried it on the females.


Well , let 's just say that men are simple.


we had reached the point where ,  um , on the male portion of the  development set , the , um  or one of the development sets , I should say   the , um  the male error rate with , uh , ICSI PLP features was pretty much identical with , uh , SRI features. which are  MFCC. So , um , then I thought , " Oh , great. I 'll j I 'll  just let 's make sure everything works on the females. " And the error rate  you know , there was a three percent difference.


No , actually there 's more training data.


Yeah. Um , and the test data is CallHome and Switchboard. So , uh  so then  um  Oh , and plus the  the vocal tract  length normalization didn't  actually made things worse. So something 's really seriously wrong. So  Um


Yeah. Um , and the test data is CallHome and Switchboard. So , uh  so then  um  Oh , and plus the  the vocal tract  length normalization didn't  actually made things worse. So something 's really seriously wrong. So  Um

So  but you see , now , between  between the males and the females , there 's certainly a much bigger difference in the scaling range , than there is , say , just within the males. And what you were using before was scaling factors that were just from the  the m the  SRI front - end. And that worked  that worked fine.


So  but you see , now , between  between the males and the females , there 's certainly a much bigger difference in the scaling range , than there is , say , just within the males. And what you were using before was scaling factors that were just from the  the m the  SRI front - end. And that worked  that worked fine.


So  but you see , now , between  between the males and the females , there 's certainly a much bigger difference in the scaling range , than there is , say , just within the males. And what you were using before was scaling factors that were just from the  the m the  SRI front - end. And that worked  that worked fine.

Uh , but now you 're looking over a larger range and it may not be so fine.


So  but you see , now , between  between the males and the females , there 's certainly a much bigger difference in the scaling range , than there is , say , just within the males. And what you were using before was scaling factors that were just from the  the m the  SRI front - end. And that worked  that worked fine.

Uh , but now you 're looking over a larger range and it may not be so fine.

Well , um  So  I just  d so the one thing that I then tried was to put in the low - pass filter , which we have in the  So , most  most Hub - five systems actually band - limit the  uh , at about , uh , thirty - seven hundred , um , hertz.


Uh , but now you 're looking over a larger range and it may not be so fine.

Well , um  So  I just  d so the one thing that I then tried was to put in the low - pass filter , which we have in the  So , most  most Hub - five systems actually band - limit the  uh , at about , uh , thirty - seven hundred , um , hertz.


Uh , but now you 're looking over a larger range and it may not be so fine.

Well , um  So  I just  d so the one thing that I then tried was to put in the low - pass filter , which we have in the  So , most  most Hub - five systems actually band - limit the  uh , at about , uh , thirty - seven hundred , um , hertz.

Although , you know , normally , I mean , the channel goes to four  four thousand. Right ? So , um  And that actually helped , uh  uh , a little bit.


Well , um  So  I just  d so the one thing that I then tried was to put in the low - pass filter , which we have in the  So , most  most Hub - five systems actually band - limit the  uh , at about , uh , thirty - seven hundred , um , hertz.

Although , you know , normally , I mean , the channel goes to four  four thousand. Right ? So , um  And that actually helped , uh  uh , a little bit.


Although , you know , normally , I mean , the channel goes to four  four thousand. Right ? So , um  And that actually helped , uh  uh , a little bit.

Um  and it didn't hurt on the males either. So , um  And I 'm now , uh , trying the  Oh , and suddenly , also the v the vocal tract length normalization only in the test se on the test data. So , you can do vocal tract length normalization on the test data only or on both the training and the test.


Um  and it didn't hurt on the males either. So , um  And I 'm now , uh , trying the  Oh , and suddenly , also the v the vocal tract length normalization only in the test se on the test data. So , you can do vocal tract length normalization on the test data only or on both the training and the test.

And you expect it to help a little bit if you do it only on the test , and s more if you do it on both training and test.


And you expect it to help a little bit if you do it only on the test , and s more if you do it on both training and test.

And so the  It now helps , if you do it only on the test , and I 'm currently retraining another set of models where it 's both in the training and the test , and then we 'll  we 'll have , hopefully , even better results. So  But there 's  It looks like there will still be some difference , maybe between one and two percent , um , for the females.


And so the  It now helps , if you do it only on the test , and I 'm currently retraining another set of models where it 's both in the training and the test , and then we 'll  we 'll have , hopefully , even better results. So  But there 's  It looks like there will still be some difference , maybe between one and two percent , um , for the females.

And so , um , you know , I 'm open to suggestions.


And so , um , you know , I 'm open to suggestions.

And it is true that the , uh  that the   you know , we are using the  But  it can't be just the VTL ,


And it is true that the , uh  that the   you know , we are using the  But  it can't be just the VTL ,

because if you don't do VTL in both systems , uh , you know , the  the females are considerably worse in the  with the PLP features.


because if you don't do VTL in both systems , uh , you know , the  the females are considerably worse in the  with the PLP features.


because if you don't do VTL in both systems , uh , you know , the  the females are considerably worse in the  with the PLP features.

So there must be some  something else going on.


So there must be some  something else going on.

Well , what 's the standard  ? Yeah , so I thought the performance was actually a little better on females than males.


So there must be some  something else going on.

Well , what 's the standard  ? Yeah , so I thought the performance was actually a little better on females than males.

Um ,  that  ye  overall , yes , but on this particular development test set , they 're actually a little worse. But that 's beside the point. We 're looking at the discrepancy between the SRI system and the SRI system when trained with ICSI features.


Well , what 's the standard  ? Yeah , so I thought the performance was actually a little better on females than males.

Um ,  that  ye  overall , yes , but on this particular development test set , they 're actually a little worse. But that 's beside the point. We 're looking at the discrepancy between the SRI system and the SRI system when trained with ICSI features.

Right. I 'm just wondering if that  if  if you have any indication of your standard features ,


Um ,  that  ye  overall , yes , but on this particular development test set , they 're actually a little worse. But that 's beside the point. We 're looking at the discrepancy between the SRI system and the SRI system when trained with ICSI features.

Right. I 'm just wondering if that  if  if you have any indication of your standard features ,


Um ,  that  ye  overall , yes , but on this particular development test set , they 're actually a little worse. But that 's beside the point. We 're looking at the discrepancy between the SRI system and the SRI system when trained with ICSI features.

Right. I 'm just wondering if that  if  if you have any indication of your standard features ,

you know , if that 's also different  or in the same direction or not.


Right. I 'm just wondering if that  if  if you have any indication of your standard features ,

you know , if that 's also different  or in the same direction or not.

You 're  This is  lemme ask a q more basic que


you know , if that 's also different  or in the same direction or not.

You 're  This is  lemme ask a q more basic que


you know , if that 's also different  or in the same direction or not.

You 're  This is  lemme ask a q more basic que

I mean , is this , uh  uh , iterative , Baum - Welch training ?


You 're  This is  lemme ask a q more basic que

I mean , is this , uh  uh , iterative , Baum - Welch training ?


I mean , is this , uh  uh , iterative , Baum - Welch training ?


Baum - Welch training. And how do you determine when to  to stop iterating ?


Baum - Welch training. And how do you determine when to  to stop iterating ?

Um  Well , actually , we  we just basically do a s a fixed number of iterations.


Baum - Welch training. And how do you determine when to  to stop iterating ?

Um  Well , actually , we  we just basically do a s a fixed number of iterations.

Uh , in this case four. Um , which  Eh , we used to do only three , and then we found out we can squeeze  And it was basically , we 're s we 're keeping it on the safe side. But you 're d Right. It might be that one more iteration  would  would help , but it 's sort of


Um  Well , actually , we  we just basically do a s a fixed number of iterations.

Uh , in this case four. Um , which  Eh , we used to do only three , and then we found out we can squeeze  And it was basically , we 're s we 're keeping it on the safe side. But you 're d Right. It might be that one more iteration  would  would help , but it 's sort of

Or maybe  or maybe you 're doing one too many.


Uh , in this case four. Um , which  Eh , we used to do only three , and then we found out we can squeeze  And it was basically , we 're s we 're keeping it on the safe side. But you 're d Right. It might be that one more iteration  would  would help , but it 's sort of

Or maybe  or maybe you 're doing one too many.


Or maybe  or maybe you 're doing one too many.

No , but with Baum - Welch , there shouldn't be an over - fitting issue , really.


No , but with Baum - Welch , there shouldn't be an over - fitting issue , really.


No , but with Baum - Welch , there shouldn't be an over - fitting issue , really.

Well , you can try each one on a cross - validation set ,


Well , you can try each one on a cross - validation set ,

It d if you  if you remember some years ago Bill Byrne did a thing where he was  he was looking at that ,


It d if you  if you remember some years ago Bill Byrne did a thing where he was  he was looking at that ,


Well , yeah. We can  Well , that 's  that 's the easy one to check ,


Well , yeah. We can  Well , that 's  that 's the easy one to check ,

because we save all the intermediate models


because we save all the intermediate models


um , I 'm sorry  in each case how do you determine , you know , the  the usual  fudge factors ? The , uh   the , uh , language , uh , scaling , acoustic scaling , uh , uh


um , I 'm sorry  in each case how do you determine , you know , the  the usual  fudge factors ? The , uh   the , uh , language , uh , scaling , acoustic scaling , uh , uh

Um  I uh   I 'm actually re - optimizing them. Although that hasn't shown to make  a big difference.


um , I 'm sorry  in each case how do you determine , you know , the  the usual  fudge factors ? The , uh   the , uh , language , uh , scaling , acoustic scaling , uh , uh

Um  I uh   I 'm actually re - optimizing them. Although that hasn't shown to make  a big difference.

OK. And the pru the question he was asking at one point about pruning , uh  Remember that one ?


Um  I uh   I 'm actually re - optimizing them. Although that hasn't shown to make  a big difference.

OK. And the pru the question he was asking at one point about pruning , uh  Remember that one ?

Well , he was  he 's  it looked like the probabil at one point he was looking at the probabilities he was getting out  at the likelihoods he was getting out of PLP versus mel cepstrum , and they looked pretty different ,


OK. And the pru the question he was asking at one point about pruning , uh  Remember that one ?

Well , he was  he 's  it looked like the probabil at one point he was looking at the probabilities he was getting out  at the likelihoods he was getting out of PLP versus mel cepstrum , and they looked pretty different ,


Well , he was  he 's  it looked like the probabil at one point he was looking at the probabilities he was getting out  at the likelihoods he was getting out of PLP versus mel cepstrum , and they looked pretty different ,

Yeah , the likelihoods were  lower for the PLP.


Yeah , the likelihoods were  lower for the PLP.


I you mean  did you see this in the SRI system ?


I you mean  did you see this in the SRI system ?

Mm - hmm. Was just looking through the log files ,


Mm - hmm. Was just looking through the log files ,

You can't directly compare them , because , for every set of models you compute a new normalization. And so these log probabilities , they aren't directly comparable


You can't directly compare them , because , for every set of models you compute a new normalization. And so these log probabilities , they aren't directly comparable


You can't directly compare them , because , for every set of models you compute a new normalization. And so these log probabilities , they aren't directly comparable

because you have a different normalization constants for each model you train.


because you have a different normalization constants for each model you train.


if you have some threshold somewhere in terms of beam search or something ,


if you have some threshold somewhere in terms of beam search or something ,

Well , yeah. That 's what I was wondering.


Well , yeah. That 's what I was wondering.

I mean , if you have one threshold that works well because the range of your likelihoods is in this area


I mean , if you have one threshold that works well because the range of your likelihoods is in this area

We prune very conservatively. I mean , as we saw with the meeting data , um  we could probably tighten the pruning without really  So we we basically we have a very open beam.


I mean , if you have one threshold that works well because the range of your likelihoods is in this area

We prune very conservatively. I mean , as we saw with the meeting data , um  we could probably tighten the pruning without really  So we we basically we have a very open beam.

But , you 're only talking about a percent or two.


We prune very conservatively. I mean , as we saw with the meeting data , um  we could probably tighten the pruning without really  So we we basically we have a very open beam.

But , you 're only talking about a percent or two.

Right ? Here we 're - we 're saying that we there  gee , there 's this b eh , there 's this difference here. And  it  See cuz , i i  there could be lots of things. Right ? But  but  but  but , um , let 's suppose just for a second that , uh , we 've sort of taken out a lot of the  the major differences , uh , between the two.


But , you 're only talking about a percent or two.

Right ? Here we 're - we 're saying that we there  gee , there 's this b eh , there 's this difference here. And  it  See cuz , i i  there could be lots of things. Right ? But  but  but  but , um , let 's suppose just for a second that , uh , we 've sort of taken out a lot of the  the major differences , uh , between the two.


Right ? Here we 're - we 're saying that we there  gee , there 's this b eh , there 's this difference here. And  it  See cuz , i i  there could be lots of things. Right ? But  but  but  but , um , let 's suppose just for a second that , uh , we 've sort of taken out a lot of the  the major differences , uh , between the two.

I mean , we 're already sort of using the mel scale and we 're using the same style filter integration , and  and , well , we 're making sure that low and high


Right ? Here we 're - we 're saying that we there  gee , there 's this b eh , there 's this difference here. And  it  See cuz , i i  there could be lots of things. Right ? But  but  but  but , um , let 's suppose just for a second that , uh , we 've sort of taken out a lot of the  the major differences , uh , between the two.

I mean , we 're already sort of using the mel scale and we 're using the same style filter integration , and  and , well , we 're making sure that low and high

Actually , there is  the difference in that. So , for the PLP features we use the triangular filter shapes. And for the  in the SRI front - end we use the trapezoidal one.


I mean , we 're already sort of using the mel scale and we 're using the same style filter integration , and  and , well , we 're making sure that low and high

Actually , there is  the difference in that. So , for the PLP features we use the triangular filter shapes. And for the  in the SRI front - end we use the trapezoidal one.


I mean , we 're already sort of using the mel scale and we 're using the same style filter integration , and  and , well , we 're making sure that low and high

Actually , there is  the difference in that. So , for the PLP features we use the triangular filter shapes. And for the  in the SRI front - end we use the trapezoidal one.

Well , now it 's the same. It 's thirty  thirty to seven hundred and sixty hertz.


Actually , there is  the difference in that. So , for the PLP features we use the triangular filter shapes. And for the  in the SRI front - end we use the trapezoidal one.

Well , now it 's the same. It 's thirty  thirty to seven hundred and sixty hertz.

Yeah. Exp - one 's triangular , one 's trapezoidal. So


Well , now it 's the same. It 's thirty  thirty to seven hundred and sixty hertz.

Yeah. Exp - one 's triangular , one 's trapezoidal. So


Well , now it 's the same. It 's thirty  thirty to seven hundred and sixty hertz.

Yeah. Exp - one 's triangular , one 's trapezoidal. So

Before we  i i th with straight PLP , it 's trapezoidal also.


Yeah. Exp - one 's triangular , one 's trapezoidal. So

Before we  i i th with straight PLP , it 's trapezoidal also.


Before we  i i th with straight PLP , it 's trapezoidal also.

But then we had a slight difference in the  in the scale. Uh , so.


Before we  i i th with straight PLP , it 's trapezoidal also.

But then we had a slight difference in the  in the scale. Uh , so.

Since currently the Feacalc program doesn't allow me to change  the filter shape independently of the scale.


But then we had a slight difference in the  in the scale. Uh , so.

Since currently the Feacalc program doesn't allow me to change  the filter shape independently of the scale.


But then we had a slight difference in the  in the scale. Uh , so.

Since currently the Feacalc program doesn't allow me to change  the filter shape independently of the scale.

And , I did the experiment on the SRI front - end where I tried the  y where the standard used to be to use trapezoidal filters. You can actually continuously vary it between the two. And so I wen I swi I tried the trap eh , triangular ones. And it did slightly worse , but it 's really a small difference.


Since currently the Feacalc program doesn't allow me to change  the filter shape independently of the scale.

And , I did the experiment on the SRI front - end where I tried the  y where the standard used to be to use trapezoidal filters. You can actually continuously vary it between the two. And so I wen I swi I tried the trap eh , triangular ones. And it did slightly worse , but it 's really a small difference.


And , I did the experiment on the SRI front - end where I tried the  y where the standard used to be to use trapezoidal filters. You can actually continuously vary it between the two. And so I wen I swi I tried the trap eh , triangular ones. And it did slightly worse , but it 's really a small difference.

Coup - Couple tenths of a percent or something.


Coup - Couple tenths of a percent or something.


So it 's not just losing some  frequency range.


So it 's not just losing some  frequency range.

Yeah , exactly. So , it 's not  I don't think the filter shape by itself will make a huge  difference.


So it 's not just losing some  frequency range.

Yeah , exactly. So , it 's not  I don't think the filter shape by itself will make a huge  difference.

Yeah. Right. So the oth  the other thing that


Yeah , exactly. So , it 's not  I don't think the filter shape by itself will make a huge  difference.

Yeah. Right. So the oth  the other thing that

So , f i We 've always viewed it , anyway , as the major difference between the two , is actually in the smoothing , that the  that the , um ,  PLP , and  and the reason PLP has been advantageous in , uh , slightly noisy situations is because ,  PLP does the smoothing at the end by an auto - regressive model ,


Yeah. Right. So the oth  the other thing that

So , f i We 've always viewed it , anyway , as the major difference between the two , is actually in the smoothing , that the  that the , um ,  PLP , and  and the reason PLP has been advantageous in , uh , slightly noisy situations is because ,  PLP does the smoothing at the end by an auto - regressive model ,


So , f i We 've always viewed it , anyway , as the major difference between the two , is actually in the smoothing , that the  that the , um ,  PLP , and  and the reason PLP has been advantageous in , uh , slightly noisy situations is because ,  PLP does the smoothing at the end by an auto - regressive model ,

and mel cepstrum does it by just computing the lower cepstral coefficients.


and mel cepstrum does it by just computing the lower cepstral coefficients.


and mel cepstrum does it by just computing the lower cepstral coefficients.

OK. So  one thing I haven't done yet is to actually do all of this with a much larger  with our full training set. So right now , we 're using a  I don't know , forty ? I i it 's  it 's  eh  it 's a f training set that 's about , um , you know , by a factor of four smaller than what we use when we train the full system. So , some of these smoothing issues are over - fitting for that matter.


OK. So  one thing I haven't done yet is to actually do all of this with a much larger  with our full training set. So right now , we 're using a  I don't know , forty ? I i it 's  it 's  eh  it 's a f training set that 's about , um , you know , by a factor of four smaller than what we use when we train the full system. So , some of these smoothing issues are over - fitting for that matter.


OK. So  one thing I haven't done yet is to actually do all of this with a much larger  with our full training set. So right now , we 're using a  I don't know , forty ? I i it 's  it 's  eh  it 's a f training set that 's about , um , you know , by a factor of four smaller than what we use when we train the full system. So , some of these smoothing issues are over - fitting for that matter.

And the Baum - Welch should be much less of a factor , if you go full  whole hog.


And the Baum - Welch should be much less of a factor , if you go full  whole hog.

And so , w so , just um  so the strategy is to first sort of treat things  with fast turn - around on a smaller training set and then ,  when you 've sort of , narrowed it down , you try it on a larger training set.


And so , w so , just um  so the strategy is to first sort of treat things  with fast turn - around on a smaller training set and then ,  when you 've sort of , narrowed it down , you try it on a larger training set.


And so , w so , just um  so the strategy is to first sort of treat things  with fast turn - around on a smaller training set and then ,  when you 've sort of , narrowed it down , you try it on a larger training set.

Now the other que related question , though , is  is ,  uh , what 's the boot models for these things ?


Now the other que related question , though , is  is ,  uh , what 's the boot models for these things ?

Th - th the boot models are trained from scratch. So we compute , um  So , we start with a , um , alil alignment that we computed with the b sort of the best system we have. And  and then we train from scratch. So we com we do a , you know , w um   We collect the  uh , the observations from those alignments under each of the feature sets that  that we  train. And then , from there we do , um  There 's a lot of , actually   The way it works , you first train a phonetically - tied mixture model. Um. You do a total of  First you do a context - independent PTM model. Then you switch to a context  You do two iterations of that. Then you do two iterations of  of  of context - dependent phonetically - tied mixtures. And then from that you  you do the  you  you go to a state - clustered model ,


Now the other que related question , though , is  is ,  uh , what 's the boot models for these things ?

Th - th the boot models are trained from scratch. So we compute , um  So , we start with a , um , alil alignment that we computed with the b sort of the best system we have. And  and then we train from scratch. So we com we do a , you know , w um   We collect the  uh , the observations from those alignments under each of the feature sets that  that we  train. And then , from there we do , um  There 's a lot of , actually   The way it works , you first train a phonetically - tied mixture model. Um. You do a total of  First you do a context - independent PTM model. Then you switch to a context  You do two iterations of that. Then you do two iterations of  of  of context - dependent phonetically - tied mixtures. And then from that you  you do the  you  you go to a state - clustered model ,

and you do four iterations of that. So there 's a lot of iterations overall between your original boot models and the final models. I don't think that  Hmm. We have never seen big differences. Once I thought " oh , I can  Now I have these much better models. I 'll re - generate my initial alignments. Then I 'll get much better models at the end. " Made no difference whatsoever. It 's  I think it 's  eh , i


Th - th the boot models are trained from scratch. So we compute , um  So , we start with a , um , alil alignment that we computed with the b sort of the best system we have. And  and then we train from scratch. So we com we do a , you know , w um   We collect the  uh , the observations from those alignments under each of the feature sets that  that we  train. And then , from there we do , um  There 's a lot of , actually   The way it works , you first train a phonetically - tied mixture model. Um. You do a total of  First you do a context - independent PTM model. Then you switch to a context  You do two iterations of that. Then you do two iterations of  of  of context - dependent phonetically - tied mixtures. And then from that you  you do the  you  you go to a state - clustered model ,

and you do four iterations of that. So there 's a lot of iterations overall between your original boot models and the final models. I don't think that  Hmm. We have never seen big differences. Once I thought " oh , I can  Now I have these much better models. I 'll re - generate my initial alignments. Then I 'll get much better models at the end. " Made no difference whatsoever. It 's  I think it 's  eh , i

Right. Well , mis for making things better.


and you do four iterations of that. So there 's a lot of iterations overall between your original boot models and the final models. I don't think that  Hmm. We have never seen big differences. Once I thought " oh , I can  Now I have these much better models. I 'll re - generate my initial alignments. Then I 'll get much better models at the end. " Made no difference whatsoever. It 's  I think it 's  eh , i

Right. Well , mis for making things better.


and you do four iterations of that. So there 's a lot of iterations overall between your original boot models and the final models. I don't think that  Hmm. We have never seen big differences. Once I thought " oh , I can  Now I have these much better models. I 'll re - generate my initial alignments. Then I 'll get much better models at the end. " Made no difference whatsoever. It 's  I think it 's  eh , i

Right. Well , mis for making things better.

Yeah. But , this for making things worse. This it migh Th - the thought is  is  is possible  another possible  partial cause is if the boot models  used a comple used a different feature set , that


Right. Well , mis for making things better.

Yeah. But , this for making things worse. This it migh Th - the thought is  is  is possible  another possible  partial cause is if the boot models  used a comple used a different feature set , that

Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm. But there are no boot models , in fact. You  you 're not booting from initial models. You 're booting from initial alignments.


Yeah. But , this for making things worse. This it migh Th - the thought is  is  is possible  another possible  partial cause is if the boot models  used a comple used a different feature set , that

Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm. But there are no boot models , in fact. You  you 're not booting from initial models. You 're booting from initial alignments.

Which you got from a different feature set.


Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm. But there are no boot models , in fact. You  you 're not booting from initial models. You 're booting from initial alignments.

Which you got from a different feature set.

So , those features look at the data differently , actually.


Which you got from a different feature set.

So , those features look at the data differently , actually.


So , those features look at the data differently , actually.

I mean , you know , they  they will find boundaries a little differently , though  You know , all th all that sort of thing is actually slightly different. I 'd expect it to be a minor effect ,


So , those features look at the data differently , actually.

I mean , you know , they  they will find boundaries a little differently , though  You know , all th all that sort of thing is actually slightly different. I 'd expect it to be a minor effect ,

But  but  but , what I 'm  what I 'm saying is


I mean , you know , they  they will find boundaries a little differently , though  You know , all th all that sort of thing is actually slightly different. I 'd expect it to be a minor effect ,

But  but  but , what I 'm  what I 'm saying is


I mean , you know , they  they will find boundaries a little differently , though  You know , all th all that sort of thing is actually slightly different. I 'd expect it to be a minor effect ,

But  but  but , what I 'm  what I 'm saying is

So , we e w f w For a long time we had used boot alignments that had been trained with a   with the same front - end but with acoustic models that were , like , fifteen percent worse than what we use now.


But  but  but , what I 'm  what I 'm saying is

So , we e w f w For a long time we had used boot alignments that had been trained with a   with the same front - end but with acoustic models that were , like , fifteen percent worse than what we use now.


So , we e w f w For a long time we had used boot alignments that had been trained with a   with the same front - end but with acoustic models that were , like , fifteen percent worse than what we use now.

And with a dict different dictionary  with a considerably different dictionary , which was much less detailed and much less well - suited.


And with a dict different dictionary  with a considerably different dictionary , which was much less detailed and much less well - suited.

And so ,  then we switched to new boot alignments , which  which now had the benefit of all these improvements that we 've made over two years in the system.


And so ,  then we switched to new boot alignments , which  which now had the benefit of all these improvements that we 've made over two years in the system.

And , the result in the end was no different.


And , the result in the end was no different.

So , what I 'm saying is , the exact nature of these boot alignments is probably not  a big factor in the quality of the final models.


And , the result in the end was no different.

So , what I 'm saying is , the exact nature of these boot alignments is probably not  a big factor in the quality of the final models.

Yeah , maybe not. But  it  it  I st still see it as  I mean ,  there 's  there 's a history to this , too ,


So , what I 'm saying is , the exact nature of these boot alignments is probably not  a big factor in the quality of the final models.

Yeah , maybe not. But  it  it  I st still see it as  I mean ,  there 's  there 's a history to this , too ,


Yeah , maybe not. But  it  it  I st still see it as  I mean ,  there 's  there 's a history to this , too ,


but  but I  I  I th I think it could be the things  that it  the data is being viewed in a certain way , uh , that a beginning is here rather than there and so forth ,


but  but I  I  I th I think it could be the things  that it  the data is being viewed in a certain way , uh , that a beginning is here rather than there and so forth ,

because the actual signal - processing you 're doing is slightly different.


because the actual signal - processing you 're doing is slightly different.

But ,  it 's  it 's  that 's probably not it.


because the actual signal - processing you 're doing is slightly different.

But ,  it 's  it 's  that 's probably not it.

Yeah. Anyway , I  I  I should really reserve , uh , any conclusions until we 've done it on the large training set , um , and until we 've seen the results with the  with the VTL in training.


But ,  it 's  it 's  that 's probably not it.

Yeah. Anyway , I  I  I should really reserve , uh , any conclusions until we 've done it on the large training set , um , and until we 've seen the results with the  with the VTL in training.

Yeah. At some point you also might wanna take the same thing and try it on , uh , some Broadcast News data or something else that actually has  has some noisy   noisy components , so we can see if any conclusions we come to holds  across  different data.


Yeah. Anyway , I  I  I should really reserve , uh , any conclusions until we 've done it on the large training set , um , and until we 've seen the results with the  with the VTL in training.

Yeah. At some point you also might wanna take the same thing and try it on , uh , some Broadcast News data or something else that actually has  has some noisy   noisy components , so we can see if any conclusions we come to holds  across  different data.


Yeah. At some point you also might wanna take the same thing and try it on , uh , some Broadcast News data or something else that actually has  has some noisy   noisy components , so we can see if any conclusions we come to holds  across  different data.


So , is there something quick about Absinthe  that you  ?


So , is there something quick about Absinthe  that you  ?

Uh. Just what we were talking about before , which is that I ported a Blass library to Absinthe , and then got  got it working with fast - forward , and got   a speedup roughly proportional to the number of processors times the clock cycle.


Uh. Just what we were talking about before , which is that I ported a Blass library to Absinthe , and then got  got it working with fast - forward , and got   a speedup roughly proportional to the number of processors times the clock cycle.


Um , I 'm in the process of doing it for Quicknet , but there 's something going wrong and it 's about half the speed that I was estimating it should be , and I 'm not sure why.


Um , I 'm in the process of doing it for Quicknet , but there 's something going wrong and it 's about half the speed that I was estimating it should be , and I 'm not sure why.

But I 'll keep working on it. But the  what it means is that it 's likely that for net training and forward passes , we 'll  Absinthe will be a good machine. Especially if we get a few more processors and upgrade the processors.


Um , I 'm in the process of doing it for Quicknet , but there 's something going wrong and it 's about half the speed that I was estimating it should be , and I 'm not sure why.

But I 'll keep working on it. But the  what it means is that it 's likely that for net training and forward passes , we 'll  Absinthe will be a good machine. Especially if we get a few more processors and upgrade the processors.

A few more processors ? How many are you shooting for ?


But I 'll keep working on it. But the  what it means is that it 's likely that for net training and forward passes , we 'll  Absinthe will be a good machine. Especially if we get a few more processors and upgrade the processors.

A few more processors ? How many are you shooting for ?


A few more processors ? How many are you shooting for ?

Yeah , we 'll just go buy them , I guess.


Yeah , we 'll just go buy them , I guess.

And it 's also five - fifty megahertz and you can get a gigahertz.


And it 's also five - fifty megahertz and you can get a gigahertz.

Can you mix  t uh , processors of different speed ?


Can you mix  t uh , processors of different speed ?

I don't think so. I think we 'd have to do all


Can you mix  t uh , processors of different speed ?

I don't think so. I think we 'd have to do all

Probably just throw away the old ones , and


I don't think so. I think we 'd have to do all

Probably just throw away the old ones , and


Probably just throw away the old ones , and


Maybe we can stick them in another system. I dunno.


Maybe we can stick them in another system. I dunno.

We 'd have to get a  almost certainly have to get a , uh , Netfinity server.


We 'd have to get a  almost certainly have to get a , uh , Netfinity server.


I don't know. Do you have news from the conference talk ? Uh , that was programmed for yesterday  I guess.


I know  now I know what you 're talking about. No , nobody 's told me anything.


I know  now I know what you 're talking about. No , nobody 's told me anything.

Oh , this was the , uh , talk where they were supposed to try to decide


Oh , this was the , uh , talk where they were supposed to try to decide


Yeah. No , that would have been a good thing to find out before this meeting , that 's. No , I have no  I have no idea. Um , Uh , so I mean , let 's  let 's assume for right now that we 're just kind of plugging on ahead ,


Yeah. No , that would have been a good thing to find out before this meeting , that 's. No , I have no  I have no idea. Um , Uh , so I mean , let 's  let 's assume for right now that we 're just kind of plugging on ahead ,

because even if they tell us that , uh , the rules are different , uh , we 're still interested in doing what we 're doing. So what are you doing ?


Yeah. No , that would have been a good thing to find out before this meeting , that 's. No , I have no  I have no idea. Um , Uh , so I mean , let 's  let 's assume for right now that we 're just kind of plugging on ahead ,

because even if they tell us that , uh , the rules are different , uh , we 're still interested in doing what we 're doing. So what are you doing ?

Mm - hmm. Uh , well , we 've  a little bit worked on trying to see , uh , what were the bugs and the problem with the latencies.


because even if they tell us that , uh , the rules are different , uh , we 're still interested in doing what we 're doing. So what are you doing ?

Mm - hmm. Uh , well , we 've  a little bit worked on trying to see , uh , what were the bugs and the problem with the latencies.


because even if they tell us that , uh , the rules are different , uh , we 're still interested in doing what we 're doing. So what are you doing ?

Mm - hmm. Uh , well , we 've  a little bit worked on trying to see , uh , what were the bugs and the problem with the latencies.

So , We took  first we took the LDA filters and ,  uh , we designed new filters , using uh recursive filters actually.


Mm - hmm. Uh , well , we 've  a little bit worked on trying to see , uh , what were the bugs and the problem with the latencies.

So , We took  first we took the LDA filters and ,  uh , we designed new filters , using uh recursive filters actually.

So when you say " we " , is that something Sunil is doing or is that  ?


So , We took  first we took the LDA filters and ,  uh , we designed new filters , using uh recursive filters actually.

So when you say " we " , is that something Sunil is doing or is that  ?


So when you say " we " , is that something Sunil is doing or is that  ?


So we took the filters  the FIR filters  and we  designed , uh , IIR filters that have the same frequency response.


So we took the filters  the FIR filters  and we  designed , uh , IIR filters that have the same frequency response.

Well , similar , but that have shorter delays.


Well , similar , but that have shorter delays.


Well , similar , but that have shorter delays.

So they had two filters , one for the low frequency bands and another for the high frequency bands. And so we redesigned two filters. And the low frequency band has sixty - four milliseconds of delay , and the high frequency band filter has something like eleven milliseconds compared to the two hundred milliseconds of the IIR filters. But it 's not yet test. So we have the filters but we still have to implement a routine that does recursive filtering


So they had two filters , one for the low frequency bands and another for the high frequency bands. And so we redesigned two filters. And the low frequency band has sixty - four milliseconds of delay , and the high frequency band filter has something like eleven milliseconds compared to the two hundred milliseconds of the IIR filters. But it 's not yet test. So we have the filters but we still have to implement a routine that does recursive filtering


So they had two filters , one for the low frequency bands and another for the high frequency bands. And so we redesigned two filters. And the low frequency band has sixty - four milliseconds of delay , and the high frequency band filter has something like eleven milliseconds compared to the two hundred milliseconds of the IIR filters. But it 's not yet test. So we have the filters but we still have to implement a routine that does recursive filtering

You  you had a discussion with Sunil about this though ?


You  you had a discussion with Sunil about this though ?


You  you had a discussion with Sunil about this though ?

Uh - huh. Yeah , you should talk with him.


Uh - huh. Yeah , you should talk with him.

Yeah. No , I mean , because the  the  the  the whole problem that happened before was coordination ,


Yeah. No , I mean , because the  the  the  the whole problem that happened before was coordination ,

right ? So  so you need to discuss with him what we 're doing ,


right ? So  so you need to discuss with him what we 're doing ,

uh , cuz they could be doing the same thing and  or something.


right ? So  so you need to discuss with him what we 're doing ,

uh , cuz they could be doing the same thing and  or something.

Mm - hmm. Uh , I  yeah , I don't know if th that 's what they were trying to  They were trying to do something different like taking , uh  well , using filter that takes only a past


uh , cuz they could be doing the same thing and  or something.

Mm - hmm. Uh , I  yeah , I don't know if th that 's what they were trying to  They were trying to do something different like taking , uh  well , using filter that takes only a past


uh , cuz they could be doing the same thing and  or something.

Mm - hmm. Uh , I  yeah , I don't know if th that 's what they were trying to  They were trying to do something different like taking , uh  well , using filter that takes only a past

and this is just a little bit different. But I will I will send him an email and tell him exactly what we are doing , so.


Mm - hmm. Uh , I  yeah , I don't know if th that 's what they were trying to  They were trying to do something different like taking , uh  well , using filter that takes only a past

and this is just a little bit different. But I will I will send him an email and tell him exactly what we are doing , so.


and this is just a little bit different. But I will I will send him an email and tell him exactly what we are doing , so.


and this is just a little bit different. But I will I will send him an email and tell him exactly what we are doing , so.

I mean  We just  we just have to be in contact more. I think that  the  the fact that we  we did that with  had that thing with the latencies was indicative of the fact that there wasn't enough communication.


I mean  We just  we just have to be in contact more. I think that  the  the fact that we  we did that with  had that thing with the latencies was indicative of the fact that there wasn't enough communication.


Um , Yeah. Well , there is w one , um , remark about these filters , that they don't have a linear phase. So ,


Um , Yeah. Well , there is w one , um , remark about these filters , that they don't have a linear phase. So ,

Well , I don't know , perhaps it  perhaps it doesn't hurt because the phase is almost linear but. Um , and so , yeah , for the delay I gave you here , it 's  it 's , uh , computed on the five hertz modulation frequency , which is the  mmm , well , the most important for speech so. Uh , this is the first thing.


Um , Yeah. Well , there is w one , um , remark about these filters , that they don't have a linear phase. So ,

Well , I don't know , perhaps it  perhaps it doesn't hurt because the phase is almost linear but. Um , and so , yeah , for the delay I gave you here , it 's  it 's , uh , computed on the five hertz modulation frequency , which is the  mmm , well , the most important for speech so. Uh , this is the first thing.

So that would be , uh , a reduction of a hundred and thirty - six milliseconds ,