Now I dunno how much people have thought ahead to the tourist domain in this

Probably not enough , I mean an  another uh more basic point there is that the current um tasks and therefore th the concepts in this ac what 's called the action plan and what 's really the dialogue manager.


Now I dunno how much people have thought ahead to the tourist domain in this

Probably not enough , I mean an  another uh more basic point there is that the current um tasks and therefore th the concepts in this ac what 's called the action plan and what 's really the dialogue manager.

um is based on slots that have to be filled and the um kind of values in these slots would be fixed things like the a time or a movie title or something like this


Probably not enough , I mean an  another uh more basic point there is that the current um tasks and therefore th the concepts in this ac what 's called the action plan and what 's really the dialogue manager.

um is based on slots that have to be filled and the um kind of values in these slots would be fixed things like the a time or a movie title or something like this


um is based on slots that have to be filled and the um kind of values in these slots would be fixed things like the a time or a movie title or something like this

whereas in the a um tourist domain it might be an entire route. Set - based , or even very complex structured information in these slots


whereas in the a um tourist domain it might be an entire route. Set - based , or even very complex structured information in these slots

and I 'm not sure if  if complex slots of that type are really um being taken into consideration.


and I 'm not sure if  if complex slots of that type are really um being taken into consideration.


and I 'm not sure if  if complex slots of that type are really um being taken into consideration.

Could you  could you put a message into the right place to see if we can at least ask that question ?


Could you  could you put a message into the right place to see if we can at least ask that question ?


Could you  could you put a message into the right place to see if we can at least ask that question ?

I mean nothing 's being completely settled there


I mean nothing 's being completely settled there


yeah and um it might actually OK ah also  because um again in in Deep Map we have faced and implemented those problems once already


yeah and um it might actually OK ah also  because um again in in Deep Map we have faced and implemented those problems once already

maybe we can even shuffle some know how from there to to Markus and Michael.


maybe we can even shuffle some know how from there to to Markus and Michael.


And um mmm You don't know  OK th I 'll  I 'll talk to Michael it 's what I do anyway. Who  How far is the uh the  the M - three - L specification for  for the la natural language input gone on the  the uh I haven't seen anything for the uh tourist path domain.


And um mmm You don't know  OK th I 'll  I 'll talk to Michael it 's what I do anyway. Who  How far is the uh the  the M - three - L specification for  for the la natural language input gone on the  the uh I haven't seen anything for the uh tourist path domain.

And um you are probably also involved in that ,


And um you are probably also involved in that ,

right ? uh together with the usual gang , um Petra and Jan


And um you are probably also involved in that ,

right ? uh together with the usual gang , um Petra and Jan

Mmm. Yeah , there 's a meeting next next week I think


right ? uh together with the usual gang , um Petra and Jan

Mmm. Yeah , there 's a meeting next next week I think

OK because That 's  Those are the  I think the  the true key issues is how does the whatever comes out of the language input pipeline look like and then what the action planner does with it  and how that is uh specified. I didn't think of the internal working of the uh the action planner and the language  uh the function model as sort of relevant. Because what  what they take is sort of this  this fixed representation of a  of an intention.


Mmm. Yeah , there 's a meeting next next week I think

OK because That 's  Those are the  I think the  the true key issues is how does the whatever comes out of the language input pipeline look like and then what the action planner does with it  and how that is uh specified. I didn't think of the internal working of the uh the action planner and the language  uh the function model as sort of relevant. Because what  what they take is sort of this  this fixed representation of a  of an intention.

And that can be as detailed or as crude as you want it to be. But um the internal workings of of the  whether you know there 're dialogue  action planners that work with belief - nets that are action planners that work with you know state automata. So that shouldn't really matter too much. I mean it does matter because it does have to keep track of you  we are on part six of r a route that consists of eight steps and so forth


OK because That 's  Those are the  I think the  the true key issues is how does the whatever comes out of the language input pipeline look like and then what the action planner does with it  and how that is uh specified. I didn't think of the internal working of the uh the action planner and the language  uh the function model as sort of relevant. Because what  what they take is sort of this  this fixed representation of a  of an intention.

And that can be as detailed or as crude as you want it to be. But um the internal workings of of the  whether you know there 're dialogue  action planners that work with belief - nets that are action planners that work with you know state automata. So that shouldn't really matter too much. I mean it does matter because it does have to keep track of you  we are on part six of r a route that consists of eight steps and so forth


And that can be as detailed or as crude as you want it to be. But um the internal workings of of the  whether you know there 're dialogue  action planners that work with belief - nets that are action planners that work with you know state automata. So that shouldn't really matter too much. I mean it does matter because it does have to keep track of you  we are on part six of r a route that consists of eight steps and so forth

Yeah , th there  there  I think there are a lot of reasons why it matters. OK , so that uh , for example , the i it 's the action planner is going to take some spec and s make some suggestions about what the user should do. What the user says after that is going to be very much caught up with what the action planner told it.


Yeah , th there  there  I think there are a lot of reasons why it matters. OK , so that uh , for example , the i it 's the action planner is going to take some spec and s make some suggestions about what the user should do. What the user says after that is going to be very much caught up with what the action planner told it.

If the  If the parser and the language end doesn't know what the person 's been told OK th it 's you 're making your life much more difficult than it has to be.


If the  If the parser and the language end doesn't know what the person 's been told OK th it 's you 're making your life much more difficult than it has to be.

Right ? So if someone says the best t to uh go there is by taxi , let 's say. Now the planner comes out and says you wanna get there fast , take a taxi. OK. And the language end doesn't know that. OK , there 's all sorts of dialogues that won't make any sense which would be just fine.


Right ? So if someone says the best t to uh go there is by taxi , let 's say. Now the planner comes out and says you wanna get there fast , take a taxi. OK. And the language end doesn't know that. OK , there 's all sorts of dialogues that won't make any sense which would be just fine.


That would b but that  I think that  that uh point has been realized and it 's  it 's not really um been defined yet but there 's gonna be some kind of feedback and input from uh the action planner into all the analysis modules , telling them what to expect and what the current state of the discourse is.


That would b but that  I think that  that uh point has been realized and it 's  it 's not really um been defined yet but there 's gonna be some kind of feedback and input from uh the action planner into all the analysis modules , telling them what to expect and what the current state of the discourse is.

Beyond what 's currently being implemented which is just word lists.


That would b but that  I think that  that uh point has been realized and it 's  it 's not really um been defined yet but there 's gonna be some kind of feedback and input from uh the action planner into all the analysis modules , telling them what to expect and what the current state of the discourse is.

Beyond what 's currently being implemented which is just word lists.

Yeah , but this is not the st this is not just the state of the discourse.


Beyond what 's currently being implemented which is just word lists.

Yeah , but this is not the st this is not just the state of the discourse.


Yeah , but this is not the st this is not just the state of the discourse.

This is actually the state of the plan. That 's why


This is actually the state of the plan. That 's why


This is actually the state of the plan. That 's why

OK so it  z and s uh , It 's great if people are already taking that into account. But One would have t have to see  see the details.


OK so it  z and s uh , It 's great if people are already taking that into account. But One would have t have to see  see the details.

The specifics aren't really there yet. Yes. So , there 's work to do there.


OK so it  z and s uh , It 's great if people are already taking that into account. But One would have t have to see  see the details.

The specifics aren't really there yet. Yes. So , there 's work to do there.

Yeah. So anyway , Robert , that 's why I was thinking that


The specifics aren't really there yet. Yes. So , there 's work to do there.

Yeah. So anyway , Robert , that 's why I was thinking that

um I think you 're gonna need  We talked about this several times that  that  the  the input end is gonna need a fair amount of feedback from the planning end.


Yeah. So anyway , Robert , that 's why I was thinking that

um I think you 're gonna need  We talked about this several times that  that  the  the input end is gonna need a fair amount of feedback from the planning end.


um I think you 're gonna need  We talked about this several times that  that  the  the input end is gonna need a fair amount of feedback from the planning end.

In  in one of these things which are  are much more continuous than the  just the dialogue over movies and stuff.


In  in one of these things which are  are much more continuous than the  just the dialogue over movies and stuff.


In  in one of these things which are  are much more continuous than the  just the dialogue over movies and stuff.

And even on  on a more basic level the  the action planner actually needs to be able to have um an expressive power that can deal with these structures. And not just um say um  um the dialogue um will consist of ten possible states and th these states really are fixed in  in a certain sense.


And even on  on a more basic level the  the action planner actually needs to be able to have um an expressive power that can deal with these structures. And not just um say um  um the dialogue um will consist of ten possible states and th these states really are fixed in  in a certain sense.


And even on  on a more basic level the  the action planner actually needs to be able to have um an expressive power that can deal with these structures. And not just um say um  um the dialogue um will consist of ten possible states and th these states really are fixed in  in a certain sense.

Would there be any chance of getting the terminology changed so that the dialogue planner was called a " dialogue planner " ? Because there 's this other thing The o There 's this other thing in  in the tourist domain which is gonna be a route planner


Would there be any chance of getting the terminology changed so that the dialogue planner was called a " dialogue planner " ? Because there 's this other thing The o There 's this other thing in  in the tourist domain which is gonna be a route planner


Would there be any chance of getting the terminology changed so that the dialogue planner was called a " dialogue planner " ? Because there 's this other thing The o There 's this other thing in  in the tourist domain which is gonna be a route planner

or  It 's really gonna be an action planner. And  i it


Would there be any chance of getting the terminology changed so that the dialogue planner was called a " dialogue planner " ? Because there 's this other thing The o There 's this other thing in  in the tourist domain which is gonna be a route planner

or  It 's really gonna be an action planner. And  i it

It oughta be called a  a dialogue manager. cuz that 's what everybody else calls it.


or  It 's really gonna be an action planner. And  i it

It oughta be called a  a dialogue manager. cuz that 's what everybody else calls it.


It oughta be called a  a dialogue manager. cuz that 's what everybody else calls it.


Huh ? So , s So what would happen if we sent a note saying " Gee we 've talked about this and couldn't we change this uh th the whole word ? " I have no idea how complicated these things are.


Huh ? So , s So what would happen if we sent a note saying " Gee we 've talked about this and couldn't we change this uh th the whole word ? " I have no idea how complicated these things are.

Depends on who you talk to how. We 'll see. I 'll go check , cause I completely agree. Yeah ,


Depends on who you talk to how. We 'll see. I 'll go check , cause I completely agree. Yeah ,

and I think this is just for historical reasons within uh , the preparation phase of the project and not because somebody actually believes it ought to be action planner. So if there is resistance against changing it , that 's just because " Oh , We don't want to change things. " That  that not deep reason


Depends on who you talk to how. We 'll see. I 'll go check , cause I completely agree. Yeah ,

and I think this is just for historical reasons within uh , the preparation phase of the project and not because somebody actually believes it ought to be action planner. So if there is resistance against changing it , that 's just because " Oh , We don't want to change things. " That  that not deep reason

OK , anyway. I if  if that c in persists then we 're gonna need another term. for the thing that actually does the planning of the uh routes and whatever we are doing for the tourist.


and I think this is just for historical reasons within uh , the preparation phase of the project and not because somebody actually believes it ought to be action planner. So if there is resistance against changing it , that 's just because " Oh , We don't want to change things. " That  that not deep reason

OK , anyway. I if  if that c in persists then we 're gonna need another term. for the thing that actually does the planning of the uh routes and whatever we are doing for the tourist.


and I think this is just for historical reasons within uh , the preparation phase of the project and not because somebody actually believes it ought to be action planner. So if there is resistance against changing it , that 's just because " Oh , We don't want to change things. " That  that not deep reason

OK , anyway. I if  if that c in persists then we 're gonna need another term. for the thing that actually does the planning of the uh routes and whatever we are doing for the tourist.

Yeah , but that 's not g eh tha That ha has all the wrong connotations. it 's  it sounds like it 's you know stand alone. It doesn't interact , it doesn't That 's why I 'm saying. I think you can't  it 's fine for looking up when T you know when the show 's on TV. You go to th but I  I  I  I think it 's really  really wrong headed for something that you  that has a lot of state , it 's gonna interact co in a complicated way with the uh understanding parts.


OK , anyway. I if  if that c in persists then we 're gonna need another term. for the thing that actually does the planning of the uh routes and whatever we are doing for the tourist.

Yeah , but that 's not g eh tha That ha has all the wrong connotations. it 's  it sounds like it 's you know stand alone. It doesn't interact , it doesn't That 's why I 'm saying. I think you can't  it 's fine for looking up when T you know when the show 's on TV. You go to th but I  I  I  I think it 's really  really wrong headed for something that you  that has a lot of state , it 's gonna interact co in a complicated way with the uh understanding parts.

Yeah. Yeah I think just the  the spatial planner and the route planner I showed you once the interac action between them among them in the deep map system


Yeah , but that 's not g eh tha That ha has all the wrong connotations. it 's  it sounds like it 's you know stand alone. It doesn't interact , it doesn't That 's why I 'm saying. I think you can't  it 's fine for looking up when T you know when the show 's on TV. You go to th but I  I  I  I think it 's really  really wrong headed for something that you  that has a lot of state , it 's gonna interact co in a complicated way with the uh understanding parts.

Yeah. Yeah I think just the  the spatial planner and the route planner I showed you once the interac action between them among them in the deep map system


Yeah , but that 's not g eh tha That ha has all the wrong connotations. it 's  it sounds like it 's you know stand alone. It doesn't interact , it doesn't That 's why I 'm saying. I think you can't  it 's fine for looking up when T you know when the show 's on TV. You go to th but I  I  I  I think it 's really  really wrong headed for something that you  that has a lot of state , it 's gonna interact co in a complicated way with the uh understanding parts.

Yeah. Yeah I think just the  the spatial planner and the route planner I showed you once the interac action between them among them in the deep map system

so  a printout of the communication between those two fills up I don't know how many pages


Yeah. Yeah I think just the  the spatial planner and the route planner I showed you once the interac action between them among them in the deep map system

so  a printout of the communication between those two fills up I don't know how many pages


so  a printout of the communication between those two fills up I don't know how many pages

and that 's just part of how do I get to one place. It 's really insane. and uh but um so this is um definitely a good point to get uh Michael into the discussion. Or to enter his discussion , actually.


and that 's just part of how do I get to one place. It 's really insane. and uh but um so this is um definitely a good point to get uh Michael into the discussion. Or to enter his discussion , actually.


Yeah , he 's  he started um I think January.


Yeah , he 's  he started um I think January.

And he 's gonna be responsible for the implementation of this action planner. Dialogue manager.


Yeah , he 's  he started um I think January.

And he 's gonna be responsible for the implementation of this action planner. Dialogue manager.

Is he gonna continue with the old  uh  thing ?


And he 's gonna be responsible for the implementation of this action planner. Dialogue manager.

Is he gonna continue with the old  uh  thing ?

No , no he 's completely gonna rewrite everything. In Java.


Is he gonna continue with the old  uh  thing ?

No , no he 's completely gonna rewrite everything. In Java.


No , no he 's completely gonna rewrite everything. In Java.

Yes I was just  that 's my next question


Yes I was just  that 's my next question


Yes I was just  that 's my next question

whether we 're  we 're gonna stick to Prolog or not.


whether we 're  we 're gonna stick to Prolog or not.


whether we 're  we 're gonna stick to Prolog or not.

OK But I do think the  the function modeling concept has a certain  makes sense in a  in a certain light


OK But I do think the  the function modeling concept has a certain  makes sense in a  in a certain light


OK But I do think the  the function modeling concept has a certain  makes sense in a  in a certain light

because the action planner should not be  or the dialogue manager in that case should not um w have to worry about whether it 's interfacing with um something that does route planning in this way or that way


because the action planner should not be  or the dialogue manager in that case should not um w have to worry about whether it 's interfacing with um something that does route planning in this way or that way


Yeah I  I agree. There is  there 's a logic to dialogue which  which is  is separable. I Yeah.


Yeah I  I agree. There is  there 's a logic to dialogue which  which is  is separable. I Yeah.

and it  cant  sort of formulate its what it wants in a  in a rather a abstract uh way , you know f " Find me a good route for this. "


Yeah I  I agree. There is  there 's a logic to dialogue which  which is  is separable. I Yeah.

and it  cant  sort of formulate its what it wants in a  in a rather a abstract uh way , you know f " Find me a good route for this. "

It doesn't really have to worry ab how route planner A or how route planner B actually wants it. So this is  seemed like a good idea. In the beginning.


and it  cant  sort of formulate its what it wants in a  in a rather a abstract uh way , you know f " Find me a good route for this. "

It doesn't really have to worry ab how route planner A or how route planner B actually wants it. So this is  seemed like a good idea. In the beginning.

It 's tricky. It 's tricky because one could well imagine  I think it will turn out to be the case that uh , this thing we 're talking about , th the extended n uh knowledge modeler will fill in some parameters about what the person wants. One could well imagine that the next thing that 's trying to fill out the detailed uh , route planning , let 's say , will also have questions that it would like to ask the user. You could well imagine you get to a point where it 's got a  a choice to make and it just doesn't know something.


It doesn't really have to worry ab how route planner A or how route planner B actually wants it. So this is  seemed like a good idea. In the beginning.

It 's tricky. It 's tricky because one could well imagine  I think it will turn out to be the case that uh , this thing we 're talking about , th the extended n uh knowledge modeler will fill in some parameters about what the person wants. One could well imagine that the next thing that 's trying to fill out the detailed uh , route planning , let 's say , will also have questions that it would like to ask the user. You could well imagine you get to a point where it 's got a  a choice to make and it just doesn't know something.


It doesn't really have to worry ab how route planner A or how route planner B actually wants it. So this is  seemed like a good idea. In the beginning.

It 's tricky. It 's tricky because one could well imagine  I think it will turn out to be the case that uh , this thing we 're talking about , th the extended n uh knowledge modeler will fill in some parameters about what the person wants. One could well imagine that the next thing that 's trying to fill out the detailed uh , route planning , let 's say , will also have questions that it would like to ask the user. You could well imagine you get to a point where it 's got a  a choice to make and it just doesn't know something.

And so y you would like it t also be able to uh formulate a query. And to run that back through uh. the dialogue manager and to the output module and back around.


It 's tricky. It 's tricky because one could well imagine  I think it will turn out to be the case that uh , this thing we 're talking about , th the extended n uh knowledge modeler will fill in some parameters about what the person wants. One could well imagine that the next thing that 's trying to fill out the detailed uh , route planning , let 's say , will also have questions that it would like to ask the user. You could well imagine you get to a point where it 's got a  a choice to make and it just doesn't know something.

And so y you would like it t also be able to uh formulate a query. And to run that back through uh. the dialogue manager and to the output module and back around.


And so y you would like it t also be able to uh formulate a query. And to run that back through uh. the dialogue manager and to the output module and back around.

And a I a a good design would  would allow that to happen.


And a I a a good design would  would allow that to happen.


And a I a a good design would  would allow that to happen.

If  if you know if  if you can't make it happen then you  you do your best.


If  if you know if  if you can't make it happen then you  you do your best.

Yeah but that doesn't necessarily contradict um an architecture where there really is a pers a def well - defined interface. and  and


If  if you know if  if you can't make it happen then you  you do your best.

Yeah but that doesn't necessarily contradict um an architecture where there really is a pers a def well - defined interface. and  and

I totally agree. But  but what it nee but th what the point is the in that case the dialogue manager is sort of event driven. So the dialogue manager may think it 's in a dialogue state of one sort ,


Yeah but that doesn't necessarily contradict um an architecture where there really is a pers a def well - defined interface. and  and

I totally agree. But  but what it nee but th what the point is the in that case the dialogue manager is sort of event driven. So the dialogue manager may think it 's in a dialogue state of one sort ,

and this  one of these planning modules comes along and says " hey , right now we need to ask a question ". So that forces the dialogue manager to change state.


I totally agree. But  but what it nee but th what the point is the in that case the dialogue manager is sort of event driven. So the dialogue manager may think it 's in a dialogue state of one sort ,

and this  one of these planning modules comes along and says " hey , right now we need to ask a question ". So that forces the dialogue manager to change state.


and this  one of these planning modules comes along and says " hey , right now we need to ask a question ". So that forces the dialogue manager to change state.


ye yeah I  I think that 's  that 's the um concept that people have ,


And  and the  the underlying idea of course is that there is something like kernel modules with kernel functionality that you can plug uh certain applications like tourist information or um the home scenario with uh controlling a VCR and so on. And then extend it to an arbitrary number of applications eventually. So  wouldn't That 's an additional reason to have this well - defined interface and keep these things like uh tourist information external.


Yeah , there is another philosophical issue that I think you know you can  evade


Yeah , there is another philosophical issue that I think you know you can  evade

but , at at least it makes sense to me that sooner or later uh  a service is gonna come and describe itself to you. and that 's sort of what Srini is working on in  in  in the DAML uh project where um you  you find a GIS about  that gives you information on Berkeley ,


but , at at least it makes sense to me that sooner or later uh  a service is gonna come and describe itself to you. and that 's sort of what Srini is working on in  in  in the DAML uh project where um you  you find a GIS about  that gives you information on Berkeley ,

and it 's  it 's gonna be there and tell you what it can do and how it wants to do things. and so you can actually interface to such a system without ever having met it before and the function modeler and a self - description of the um external service haggle it out


and it 's  it 's gonna be there and tell you what it can do and how it wants to do things. and so you can actually interface to such a system without ever having met it before and the function modeler and a self - description of the um external service haggle it out

and you can use the same language core , understanding core to interface with planner - A , planner - B , planner - C and so forth.


and you can use the same language core , understanding core to interface with planner - A , planner - B , planner - C and so forth.


and you can use the same language core , understanding core to interface with planner - A , planner - B , planner - C and so forth.

Which is , you know , uh  uh  utopian  completely utopian at the moment , but slowly , you know , getting into the realm of the uh contingent.


Which is , you know , uh  uh  utopian  completely utopian at the moment , but slowly , you know , getting into the realm of the uh contingent.


Which is , you know , uh  uh  utopian  completely utopian at the moment , but slowly , you know , getting into the realm of the uh contingent.

But we are facing of course much more um realistic problems. And language input for example , is of course uh crucial you know also when you do the sort of deep understanding analysis that we envision. um Then of course , the uh um , you know what is it  poverty of the stimulus , yet the m uh the less we get of that the better. and um so we  we 're thinking , for example how much syntactic analysis actually happens already in the parser. and whether one could interface to that potentially


Which is , you know , uh  uh  utopian  completely utopian at the moment , but slowly , you know , getting into the realm of the uh contingent.

But we are facing of course much more um realistic problems. And language input for example , is of course uh crucial you know also when you do the sort of deep understanding analysis that we envision. um Then of course , the uh um , you know what is it  poverty of the stimulus , yet the m uh the less we get of that the better. and um so we  we 're thinking , for example how much syntactic analysis actually happens already in the parser. and whether one could interface to that potentially

Hmm. Yeah , are there currently is uh no syntactic analysis but in the next release there will be some.


But we are facing of course much more um realistic problems. And language input for example , is of course uh crucial you know also when you do the sort of deep understanding analysis that we envision. um Then of course , the uh um , you know what is it  poverty of the stimulus , yet the m uh the less we get of that the better. and um so we  we 're thinking , for example how much syntactic analysis actually happens already in the parser. and whether one could interface to that potentially

Hmm. Yeah , are there currently is uh no syntactic analysis but in the next release there will be some.


Hmm. Yeah , are there currently is uh no syntactic analysis but in the next release there will be some.


S so uh y we  we looked at the e current pattern matching thing.


S so uh y we  we looked at the e current pattern matching thing.

And as you say it 's just a surface pattern matcher. Uh , So what are  what are the plans roughly ?


S so uh y we  we looked at the e current pattern matching thing.

And as you say it 's just a surface pattern matcher. Uh , So what are  what are the plans roughly ?

um it 's to  to integrate and syntactic analysis. and um add some more features like segmentation. So then an utter more than one utterance is  There um there 's often uh pause between it and a segmentation occurs. um


And as you say it 's just a surface pattern matcher. Uh , So what are  what are the plans roughly ?

um it 's to  to integrate and syntactic analysis. and um add some more features like segmentation. So then an utter more than one utterance is  There um there 's often uh pause between it and a segmentation occurs. um

So , the um  So the idea is to uh  have a pa y y a particular


um it 's to  to integrate and syntactic analysis. and um add some more features like segmentation. So then an utter more than one utterance is  There um there 's often uh pause between it and a segmentation occurs. um

So , the um  So the idea is to uh  have a pa y y a particular

Do you have a particular parser in mind ? Is it uh  partic d I mean have you thought through  ? Is it an HPSG parser ? Is it a whatever ?


So , the um  So the idea is to uh  have a pa y y a particular

Do you have a particular parser in mind ? Is it uh  partic d I mean have you thought through  ? Is it an HPSG parser ? Is it a whatever ?

No  no it 's  uh I think it 's it 's totally complicated for it 's just one  one person


Do you have a particular parser in mind ? Is it uh  partic d I mean have you thought through  ? Is it an HPSG parser ? Is it a whatever ?

No  no it 's  uh I think it 's it 's totally complicated for it 's just one  one person


No  no it 's  uh I think it 's it 's totally complicated for it 's just one  one person

Oh , you have to do it. You have to do it ,


Oh , you have to do it. You have to do it ,


but uh , Miel syntactic analysis with um finite state transducers.


but uh , Miel syntactic analysis with um finite state transducers.

so But the people at D F Yeah. People at DFKI have written a fair number of parsers. Other  you know , people over the years. uh have written various parsers at DFKI. None of them are suitable ? I  I  I d I 'm asking. I don't know.


but uh , Miel syntactic analysis with um finite state transducers.

so But the people at D F Yeah. People at DFKI have written a fair number of parsers. Other  you know , people over the years. uh have written various parsers at DFKI. None of them are suitable ? I  I  I d I 'm asking. I don't know.

Yeah , uh the problem is th that it has to be very fast because um if you want to for more than one path anywhere


so But the people at D F Yeah. People at DFKI have written a fair number of parsers. Other  you know , people over the years. uh have written various parsers at DFKI. None of them are suitable ? I  I  I d I 'm asking. I don't know.

Yeah , uh the problem is th that it has to be very fast because um if you want to for more than one path anywhere

what 's in the latches from the speech recognizer


Yeah , uh the problem is th that it has to be very fast because um if you want to for more than one path anywhere

what 's in the latches from the speech recognizer


what 's in the latches from the speech recognizer

so it 's speed is crucial. uh And they are not fast enough.


so it 's speed is crucial. uh And they are not fast enough.

And they also have to be very robust. cuz of um speech recognition errors and


so it 's speed is crucial. uh And they are not fast enough.

And they also have to be very robust. cuz of um speech recognition errors and

OK. So , um  So there was a chunk parser in Verbmobil , that was one of the uh branchers. You know they  d th I c There were these various uh , competing uh syntax modules. And I know one of them was a chunk parser and I don't remember  who did that.


And they also have to be very robust. cuz of um speech recognition errors and

OK. So , um  So there was a chunk parser in Verbmobil , that was one of the uh branchers. You know they  d th I c There were these various uh , competing uh syntax modules. And I know one of them was a chunk parser and I don't remember  who did that.


And they also have to be very robust. cuz of um speech recognition errors and

OK. So , um  So there was a chunk parser in Verbmobil , that was one of the uh branchers. You know they  d th I c There were these various uh , competing uh syntax modules. And I know one of them was a chunk parser and I don't remember  who did that.

I think it 's that might , at Tuebingen I thought.


OK. So , um  So there was a chunk parser in Verbmobil , that was one of the uh branchers. You know they  d th I c There were these various uh , competing uh syntax modules. And I know one of them was a chunk parser and I don't remember  who did that.

I think it 's that might , at Tuebingen I thought.


I think it 's that might , at Tuebingen I thought.


I think it 's that might , at Tuebingen I thought.

Tubingen was at least involved in putting the chunks together


Tubingen was at least involved in putting the chunks together


Tubingen was at least involved in putting the chunks together

I  can't quite recall whether they actually produced the chunks in the first place.


I  can't quite recall whether they actually produced the chunks in the first place.


There w That 's right. They w They had  There were  This was done with a two phase thing , where  the chunk parser itself was pretty stupid


There w That 's right. They w They had  There were  This was done with a two phase thing , where  the chunk parser itself was pretty stupid

and then there was a kind of trying to fit them together that h used more context.


and then there was a kind of trying to fit them together that h used more context.


and then there was a kind of trying to fit them together that h used more context.

Well you s and  and especially you did some  some um , l um was a learning - based approach which learned from a big corpus of  of trees.


Well you s and  and especially you did some  some um , l um was a learning - based approach which learned from a big corpus of  of trees.


Well you s and  and especially you did some  some um , l um was a learning - based approach which learned from a big corpus of  of trees.

And yes the  it  the chunk parser was a finite - state machine that um Mark Light originally w worked on in  while he was in Tuebingen


And yes the  it  the chunk parser was a finite - state machine that um Mark Light originally w worked on in  while he was in Tuebingen


And yes the  it  the chunk parser was a finite - state machine that um Mark Light originally w worked on in  while he was in Tuebingen

and then somebody else in Tuebingen picked that up. So it was done in Tuebingen , yeah. Definitely.


And yes the  it  the chunk parser was a finite - state machine that um Mark Light originally w worked on in  while he was in Tuebingen

and then somebody else in Tuebingen picked that up. So it was done in Tuebingen , yeah. Definitely.

But is that the kind of thing y It sounds like the kind of thing that you were thinking of.


and then somebody else in Tuebingen picked that up. So it was done in Tuebingen , yeah. Definitely.

But is that the kind of thing y It sounds like the kind of thing that you were thinking of.


and then somebody else in Tuebingen picked that up. So it was done in Tuebingen , yeah. Definitely.

But is that the kind of thing y It sounds like the kind of thing that you were thinking of.

yeah. yeah that 's In this direction , yes


But is that the kind of thing y It sounds like the kind of thing that you were thinking of.

yeah. yeah that 's In this direction , yes


yeah. yeah that 's In this direction , yes


From Michael Strube , I 've heard very good stuff about the chunk parser that is done by FORWISS , uh , which is in embassy doing the parsing.


From Michael Strube , I 've heard very good stuff about the chunk parser that is done by FORWISS , uh , which is in embassy doing the parsing.

So this is sort of  came as a surprise to me that you know , embassy s  is featuring a nice parser but it 's  what I hear. One could also look at that and see whether there is some synergy possible.


From Michael Strube , I 've heard very good stuff about the chunk parser that is done by FORWISS , uh , which is in embassy doing the parsing.

So this is sort of  came as a surprise to me that you know , embassy s  is featuring a nice parser but it 's  what I hear. One could also look at that and see whether there is some synergy possible.

Mm - hmm , yeah , it would be very interesting , Mm - hmm. Mmm , yeah.


So this is sort of  came as a surprise to me that you know , embassy s  is featuring a nice parser but it 's  what I hear. One could also look at that and see whether there is some synergy possible.

Mm - hmm , yeah , it would be very interesting , Mm - hmm. Mmm , yeah.

And they 're doing chunk parsing and it 's uh  I  I can give you the names of the people who do it there. But um. Then there is of course more ways of parsing things.


So this is sort of  came as a surprise to me that you know , embassy s  is featuring a nice parser but it 's  what I hear. One could also look at that and see whether there is some synergy possible.

Mm - hmm , yeah , it would be very interesting , Mm - hmm. Mmm , yeah.

And they 're doing chunk parsing and it 's uh  I  I can give you the names of the people who do it there. But um. Then there is of course more ways of parsing things.

Of course. But  But uh given th the constraints , that you want it to be small and fast and so forth , my guess is you 're probably into some kind of chunk parsing. And uh I 'm not a big believer in this um statistical you know , cleaning up uh It  That seems to me kind of a last resort if uh you can't do it any other way. uh but I dunno.


Mm - hmm , yeah , it would be very interesting , Mm - hmm. Mmm , yeah.

And they 're doing chunk parsing and it 's uh  I  I can give you the names of the people who do it there. But um. Then there is of course more ways of parsing things.

Of course. But  But uh given th the constraints , that you want it to be small and fast and so forth , my guess is you 're probably into some kind of chunk parsing. And uh I 'm not a big believer in this um statistical you know , cleaning up uh It  That seems to me kind of a last resort if uh you can't do it any other way. uh but I dunno.


And they 're doing chunk parsing and it 's uh  I  I can give you the names of the people who do it there. But um. Then there is of course more ways of parsing things.

Of course. But  But uh given th the constraints , that you want it to be small and fast and so forth , my guess is you 're probably into some kind of chunk parsing. And uh I 'm not a big believer in this um statistical you know , cleaning up uh It  That seems to me kind of a last resort if uh you can't do it any other way. uh but I dunno.

It may  i i may be that 's what you guys finally decide do. Uh. And have you looked  uh just  again for context


Of course. But  But uh given th the constraints , that you want it to be small and fast and so forth , my guess is you 're probably into some kind of chunk parsing. And uh I 'm not a big believer in this um statistical you know , cleaning up uh It  That seems to me kind of a last resort if uh you can't do it any other way. uh but I dunno.

It may  i i may be that 's what you guys finally decide do. Uh. And have you looked  uh just  again for context


It may  i i may be that 's what you guys finally decide do. Uh. And have you looked  uh just  again for context

There is this  this one that they did at SRI some years ago  Fastus ?


There is this  this one that they did at SRI some years ago  Fastus ?

yeah , I 've  I 've looked at it but  but it 's no  not much uh information available. I found ,


yeah , I 've  I 've looked at it but  but it 's no  not much uh information available. I found ,

but it 's also finite - state transducers , I thought.


yeah , I 've  I 've looked at it but  but it 's no  not much uh information available. I found ,

but it 's also finite - state transducers , I thought.

It is. Yeah. I mean  it 's  it was pretty ambitious.


but it 's also finite - state transducers , I thought.

It is. Yeah. I mean  it 's  it was pretty ambitious.


It is. Yeah. I mean  it 's  it was pretty ambitious.

Yeah , and  and Purely finite - state transducers are not so good for German since there 's um


Yeah , and  and Purely finite - state transducers are not so good for German since there 's um


Yeah , and  and Purely finite - state transducers are not so good for German since there 's um

Yeah , I guess that 's the point is  is all the morphology and stuff. And English is all th all word order. And it makes a lot more sense.


Yeah , I guess that 's the point is  is all the morphology and stuff. And English is all th all word order. And it makes a lot more sense.


Yeah , I guess that 's the point is  is all the morphology and stuff. And English is all th all word order. And it makes a lot more sense.

And  e Yeah , OK. Good point. So in  in  in German you 've got uh most of this done with


Yeah , I guess that 's the point is  is all the morphology and stuff. And English is all th all word order. And it makes a lot more sense.

And  e Yeah , OK. Good point. So in  in  in German you 've got uh most of this done with

Mm - hmm. Also it 's uh  it 's um  Yes , uh the um choice between uh this processing and that processing and my template matcher.


And  e Yeah , OK. Good point. So in  in  in German you 've got uh most of this done with

Mm - hmm. Also it 's uh  it 's um  Yes , uh the um choice between uh this processing and that processing and my template matcher.


And  e Yeah , OK. Good point. So in  in  in German you 've got uh most of this done with

Mm - hmm. Also it 's uh  it 's um  Yes , uh the um choice between uh this processing and that processing and my template matcher.

So what about Um Did y like Morfix ? a a e y you 've got stemmers ? Or is that something that


Mm - hmm. Also it 's uh  it 's um  Yes , uh the um choice between uh this processing and that processing and my template matcher.

So what about Um Did y like Morfix ? a a e y you 've got stemmers ? Or is that something that

Um , yeah but it 's all in the  in the lexicon. So it 's


So what about Um Did y like Morfix ? a a e y you 've got stemmers ? Or is that something that

Um , yeah but it 's all in the  in the lexicon. So it 's


Um , yeah but it 's all in the  in the lexicon. So it 's


and uh at least for German you have all  all of the  uh the stemming information.


and uh at least for German you have all  all of the  uh the stemming information.

Yeah , we can , oh yeah. We have knowledge bases from  from Verbmobil system we can use


Yeah , we can , oh yeah. We have knowledge bases from  from Verbmobil system we can use

Right. But it  it  it doesn't look like i you 're using it. I didn't n see it being used in the current template uh parser. I  I didn't see any Uh  of course we l actually only looked at the English.


Right. But it  it  it doesn't look like i you 're using it. I didn't n see it being used in the current template uh parser. I  I didn't see any Uh  of course we l actually only looked at the English.


Right. But it  it  it doesn't look like i you 're using it. I didn't n see it being used in the current template uh parser. I  I didn't see any Uh  of course we l actually only looked at the English.

Did we look at the German ? I don't remember.


Right. But it  it  it doesn't look like i you 're using it. I didn't n see it being used in the current template uh parser. I  I didn't see any Uh  of course we l actually only looked at the English.

Did we look at the German ? I don't remember.

Yeah , but  but it 's used for  for stem forms.


Did we look at the German ? I don't remember.

Yeah , but  but it 's used for  for stem forms.


Did we look at the German ? I don't remember.

Yeah , but  but it 's used for  for stem forms.

n Well I think  I think there 's some misunderstanding here


Yeah , but  but it 's used for  for stem forms.

n Well I think  I think there 's some misunderstanding here


n Well I think  I think there 's some misunderstanding here


n Well I think  I think there 's some misunderstanding here

s so the lexicon might be derived by Morphix


s so the lexicon might be derived by Morphix


s so the lexicon might be derived by Morphix

but What  what 's happening on - line is just um um a  a retrieval from the lexicon which would give all the stemming information


but What  what 's happening on - line is just um um a  a retrieval from the lexicon which would give all the stemming information


Oh OK , so it  yeah , s s I thought I 'd


Oh OK , so it  yeah , s s I thought I 'd

So in German then you actually do case matching and things like in the  in the pattern matcher or not ?


Oh OK , so it  yeah , s s I thought I 'd

So in German then you actually do case matching and things like in the  in the pattern matcher or not ?

um Not yet but it 's planned to do that.


So in German then you actually do case matching and things like in the  in the pattern matcher or not ?

um Not yet but it 's planned to do that.

OK. Cuz I r I didn't reme I didn't think I saw it.


um Not yet but it 's planned to do that.

OK. Cuz I r I didn't reme I didn't think I saw it.

Have we looked at the German ? Oh , I haven yeah that 's  getting it from the lexicon is just fine.


OK. Cuz I r I didn't reme I didn't think I saw it.

Have we looked at the German ? Oh , I haven yeah that 's  getting it from the lexicon is just fine.


Have we looked at the German ? Oh , I haven yeah that 's  getting it from the lexicon is just fine.


Have we looked at the German ? Oh , I haven yeah that 's  getting it from the lexicon is just fine.

Yeah , yeah , yeah. No problem with that. um Yeah and here 's the case where the English and the German might really be significantly different. In terms of if you 're trying to build some fast parser and so forth and  You really might wanna do it in a significantly different way. I don't know. So you 've  you guys have looked at this ? also ? in terms of You know , w if you 're doing this for English as well as German Um Do you think now that it would be this  doing it similarly ?


Yeah , yeah , yeah. No problem with that. um Yeah and here 's the case where the English and the German might really be significantly different. In terms of if you 're trying to build some fast parser and so forth and  You really might wanna do it in a significantly different way. I don't know. So you 've  you guys have looked at this ? also ? in terms of You know , w if you 're doing this for English as well as German Um Do you think now that it would be this  doing it similarly ?

um Yeah , it 's um I think it 's um yes , it 's  it 's um possible to  to do list processing. and Maybe this is um more adequate for English and in German um set processing is used.


Yeah , yeah , yeah. No problem with that. um Yeah and here 's the case where the English and the German might really be significantly different. In terms of if you 're trying to build some fast parser and so forth and  You really might wanna do it in a significantly different way. I don't know. So you 've  you guys have looked at this ? also ? in terms of You know , w if you 're doing this for English as well as German Um Do you think now that it would be this  doing it similarly ?

um Yeah , it 's um I think it 's um yes , it 's  it 's um possible to  to do list processing. and Maybe this is um more adequate for English and in German um set processing is used.

Maybe yeah. Some extensions uh have to be made. For  for a English version


um Yeah , it 's um I think it 's um yes , it 's  it 's um possible to  to do list processing. and Maybe this is um more adequate for English and in German um set processing is used.

Maybe yeah. Some extensions uh have to be made. For  for a English version


Maybe yeah. Some extensions uh have to be made. For  for a English version

Well there 's m I 'm sure there 's gonna be more discussion on that after your talk.


Well there 's m I 'm sure there 's gonna be more discussion on that after your talk.

We 're just gonna foreshadow what we saw that


We 're just gonna foreshadow what we saw that


Now actually , um Are you guys free at five ? Or  Do you have to go somewhere at five o ' clock tonight ? W in ten minutes ?


Yeah , there  there 's the um practice talk.


Yeah , there  there 's the um practice talk.

Yeah , that  that 's what we were planning to do.


Yeah , that  that 's what we were planning to do.

That 's good , because that will uh tell you a fair amount about The form of semantic construction grammar that we 're using.


Yeah , that  that 's what we were planning to do.

That 's good , because that will uh tell you a fair amount about The form of semantic construction grammar that we 're using.

so  So I th I think that probably as good an introduction as you 'll get.


That 's good , because that will uh tell you a fair amount about The form of semantic construction grammar that we 're using.

so  So I th I think that probably as good an introduction as you 'll get.


so  So I th I think that probably as good an introduction as you 'll get.

Uh to the form of  of uh  conceptual grammar that  that w we have in mind for this.


Uh to the form of  of uh  conceptual grammar that  that w we have in mind for this.

It won't talk particularly about how that relates to what uh Robert was saying at the beginning. But let me give you a very short version of this. So we talked about the fact that There 're going to be a certain number of decisions That you want the knowledge modeler to make , that will be then fed to the function module , that does uh , route planning. It 's called the " route planner " or something.


It won't talk particularly about how that relates to what uh Robert was saying at the beginning. But let me give you a very short version of this. So we talked about the fact that There 're going to be a certain number of decisions That you want the knowledge modeler to make , that will be then fed to the function module , that does uh , route planning. It 's called the " route planner " or something.

So there are these decisions. And then one half of this we talked about at little bit is how if you had the right information , if you knew something about what was said and about th the something about was the agent a tourist or a native or a business person or uh young or old , whatever. That information , and also about the Uh , what we 're calling " the entity " , Is it a castle , is it a bank ? Is it a s town square , is it a statue ? Whatever. So all that kind of information could be combined into decision networks and give you decisions. But the other half of the problem is How would you get that kind of information from the parsed input ? So , um So what you might try to do is just build more templates , saying uh we 're trying to build a templ you know build a template that w uh somehow would capture the fact that he wants to take a picture.


So there are these decisions. And then one half of this we talked about at little bit is how if you had the right information , if you knew something about what was said and about th the something about was the agent a tourist or a native or a business person or uh young or old , whatever. That information , and also about the Uh , what we 're calling " the entity " , Is it a castle , is it a bank ? Is it a s town square , is it a statue ? Whatever. So all that kind of information could be combined into decision networks and give you decisions. But the other half of the problem is How would you get that kind of information from the parsed input ? So , um So what you might try to do is just build more templates , saying uh we 're trying to build a templ you know build a template that w uh somehow would capture the fact that he wants to take a picture.

OK ? And  and we could  you could do this. And it 's a small enough domain that probably you , you know


OK ? And  and we could  you could do this. And it 's a small enough domain that probably you , you know

OK. You could do this. But uh from our point of view this is also a research project and there are a couple of people not here for various reasons who are doing doctoral dissertations on this ,


OK. You could do this. But uh from our point of view this is also a research project and there are a couple of people not here for various reasons who are doing doctoral dissertations on this ,

and the idea that we 're really after is a very deep semantics based on cognitive linguistics and the notion that there are a relatively small number of primitive conceptual schemas that characterize a lot of activity. So a typical one in this formulation is a container. So this is a static thing. And the notion is that all sorts of physical situations are characterized in terms of containers. Going in and out the portals and con


and the idea that we 're really after is a very deep semantics based on cognitive linguistics and the notion that there are a relatively small number of primitive conceptual schemas that characterize a lot of activity. So a typical one in this formulation is a container. So this is a static thing. And the notion is that all sorts of physical situations are characterized in terms of containers. Going in and out the portals and con

OK. But also , importantly for Lakoff and these guys is all sorts of metaphorical things are also characterized this way. You get in trouble and you know et cetera


OK. But also , importantly for Lakoff and these guys is all sorts of metaphorical things are also characterized this way. You get in trouble and you know et cetera

and so  s So , what we 're really trying to do is to map from the discourse to the conceptual semantics level. And from there to the appropriate decisions.


and so  s So , what we 're really trying to do is to map from the discourse to the conceptual semantics level. And from there to the appropriate decisions.

So another one of these primitive , what are called " image schemas " , is uh goal seeking. So this a notion of a source , path , goal , trajector , possibly obstacles.


So another one of these primitive , what are called " image schemas " , is uh goal seeking. So this a notion of a source , path , goal , trajector , possibly obstacles.

And the idea is this is another conceptual primitive.


And the idea is this is another conceptual primitive.

And that all sorts of things , particularly in the tourist domain , can be represented in terms of uh source , path and goal. So the idea would be could we build an analyser that would take an utterance and say " Aha ! th this utterance is talking about an attempt to reach a goal. The goal is this , the pers the , uh traveller is that , uh the sor w where we are at now is is this , they 've mentioned possible obstacles , et cetera. " So th the  and this is an  again attempt to get very wide coverage. So if you can do this , then the notion would be that across a very large range of domains , you could use this deep conceptual basis as the interface.


And that all sorts of things , particularly in the tourist domain , can be represented in terms of uh source , path and goal. So the idea would be could we build an analyser that would take an utterance and say " Aha ! th this utterance is talking about an attempt to reach a goal. The goal is this , the pers the , uh traveller is that , uh the sor w where we are at now is is this , they 've mentioned possible obstacles , et cetera. " So th the  and this is an  again attempt to get very wide coverage. So if you can do this , then the notion would be that across a very large range of domains , you could use this deep conceptual basis as the interface.

And then , uh The processing of that , both on the input end , recognizing that certain words in a language talk about containers or goals , et cetera , and on the output end , given this kind of information , you can then uh make decisions about what actions to take. Provides , they claim , a very powerful , general notion of deep semantics. So that 's what we 're really doing.


And then , uh The processing of that , both on the input end , recognizing that certain words in a language talk about containers or goals , et cetera , and on the output end , given this kind of information , you can then uh make decisions about what actions to take. Provides , they claim , a very powerful , general notion of deep semantics. So that 's what we 're really doing.

And Nancy is going to  Her talk is going to be not about using this in applications , but about modeling how children might learn this kind of uh deep semantic grammar.


And then , uh The processing of that , both on the input end , recognizing that certain words in a language talk about containers or goals , et cetera , and on the output end , given this kind of information , you can then uh make decisions about what actions to take. Provides , they claim , a very powerful , general notion of deep semantics. So that 's what we 're really doing.

And Nancy is going to  Her talk is going to be not about using this in applications , but about modeling how children might learn this kind of uh deep semantic grammar.

Mm - hmm. Yep , yep. And how do you envision um the  the um this deep semantic to be worked with. Would it be highly ambiguous if and then there would be another module that takes that um highly underspecified deep semantic construction and map it onto the current context to find out what the person really was talking about in that context. or  or a


And Nancy is going to  Her talk is going to be not about using this in applications , but about modeling how children might learn this kind of uh deep semantic grammar.

Mm - hmm. Yep , yep. And how do you envision um the  the um this deep semantic to be worked with. Would it be highly ambiguous if and then there would be another module that takes that um highly underspecified deep semantic construction and map it onto the current context to find out what the person really was talking about in that context. or  or a

Well that 's  that 's  that 's where the belief - net comes in. So th the idea is , let 's take this business about going to the Powder - Tower.


Mm - hmm. Yep , yep. And how do you envision um the  the um this deep semantic to be worked with. Would it be highly ambiguous if and then there would be another module that takes that um highly underspecified deep semantic construction and map it onto the current context to find out what the person really was talking about in that context. or  or a

Well that 's  that 's  that 's where the belief - net comes in. So th the idea is , let 's take this business about going to the Powder - Tower.

So part of what you 'll get out of this will be the fact tha w if it works right , OK , that this is an agent that wants to go to this place and that 's their goal


Well that 's  that 's  that 's where the belief - net comes in. So th the idea is , let 's take this business about going to the Powder - Tower.

So part of what you 'll get out of this will be the fact tha w if it works right , OK , that this is an agent that wants to go to this place and that 's their goal


So part of what you 'll get out of this will be the fact tha w if it works right , OK , that this is an agent that wants to go to this place and that 's their goal

and there will be additional situational information.


and there will be additional situational information.


part of it comes from the ontology. The tower is this kind of object.


And the idea of the belief - net is it combines the information from the dialogue which comes across in this general way ,


And the idea of the belief - net is it combines the information from the dialogue which comes across in this general way ,

you know this is a  this is a goal seeking behavior , along with specific information from the ontology about the kinds of objects involved


you know this is a  this is a goal seeking behavior , along with specific information from the ontology about the kinds of objects involved

and about the situation about " Is it raining ? " I don't know. Whatever it is. And so that 's the belief - net that we 've laid out.


and about the situation about " Is it raining ? " I don't know. Whatever it is. And so that 's the belief - net that we 've laid out.

And so th the coupling to the situation comes in this model from , at th at th at the belief - net , combining evidence from the dialogue with the ontology with the situation.


And so th the coupling to the situation comes in this model from , at th at th at the belief - net , combining evidence from the dialogue with the ontology with the situation.


Is it i in , then , your place , in five  five - A ?


So we are here for uh for uh functional design.


So we are here for uh for uh functional design.

Okay ? So we are here for the functional design meeting mm  so first I will show the agenda so we will uh I will take notes during this meeting so I will try to summarise it and put that summary in the shared folder if you want to look at it afterwards


So we are here for uh for uh functional design.

Okay ? So we are here for the functional design meeting mm  so first I will show the agenda so we will uh I will take notes during this meeting so I will try to summarise it and put that summary in the shared folder if you want to look at it afterwards

so then uh each of you will uh lead a presentation on the task that has been required last time so user requirement specification , technical function design and working design. Then I will uh present you some new project requirements I received from uh the management board. Then we will take uh the decision on on the remote control uh needed functions and then I will assign you the task for the next part of the meeting. Of the  of the process. So uh who want to start the the presentation of what they did ?


Okay ? So we are here for the functional design meeting mm  so first I will show the agenda so we will uh I will take notes during this meeting so I will try to summarise it and put that summary in the shared folder if you want to look at it afterwards

so then uh each of you will uh lead a presentation on the task that has been required last time so user requirement specification , technical function design and working design. Then I will uh present you some new project requirements I received from uh the management board. Then we will take uh the decision on on the remote control uh needed functions and then I will assign you the task for the next part of the meeting. Of the  of the process. So uh who want to start the the presentation of what they did ?


so then uh each of you will uh lead a presentation on the task that has been required last time so user requirement specification , technical function design and working design. Then I will uh present you some new project requirements I received from uh the management board. Then we will take uh the decision on on the remote control uh needed functions and then I will assign you the task for the next part of the meeting. Of the  of the process. So uh who want to start the the presentation of what they did ?


Do we think w s in the  in the wrong folder maybe ?  It is possible.


Do we think w s in the  in the wrong folder maybe ?  It is possible.

It was somewhere in something like this. I don't remember the name actually must be something like messenger AMI or something.


It was somewhere in something like this. I don't remember the name actually must be something like messenger AMI or something.


There's no  We have a technical problem.


Otherwise , could you just describe by hand ?


So uh. Basically  what we want here is a remote control right.


So uh. Basically  what we want here is a remote control right.

So um the question well first of all what to control. So  most people want to have a a remote for their hi-fi and T_V_ and stuff like that.


So um the question well first of all what to control. So  most people want to have a a remote for their hi-fi and T_V_ and stuff like that.

And  but other people want th also remotes for  controlling uh and toys like robotic pets and little robots and stuff


And  but other people want th also remotes for  controlling uh and toys like robotic pets and little robots and stuff

and other people also want to have remotes for controlling um whole house.


and other people also want to have remotes for controlling um whole house.


and other people also want to have remotes for controlling um whole house.

Yeah , so there's a project I think called X_ house or something like that that does that , uh you can integrate your remote with uh computers stuff. So


Yeah , so there's a project I think called X_ house or something like that that does that , uh you can integrate your remote with uh computers stuff. So


Yeah , so there's a project I think called X_ house or something like that that does that , uh you can integrate your remote with uh computers stuff. So

there is one  that is one thing. The other is the the finder feature yeah by whistling or whatever. Uh if you have the finder feature then you can also have


there is one  that is one thing. The other is the the finder feature yeah by whistling or whatever. Uh if you have the finder feature then you can also have

uh at the same time as  and general voice commands if you want yeah.  So I think it should be a package in that case.


uh at the same time as  and general voice commands if you want yeah.  So I think it should be a package in that case.

Uh so the user interface will consist of two parts.  One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part.  Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttons for choosing devices , a set of buttons for special navigation in space ,


Uh so the user interface will consist of two parts.  One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part.  Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttons for choosing devices , a set of buttons for special navigation in space ,

a set of buttons for  linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access.


a set of buttons for  linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access.


a set of buttons for  linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access.

What do you mean by linear access then ?


What do you mean by linear access then ?

Like a video tape goes forward , backwards , uh fast and stuff yeah.


What do you mean by linear access then ?

Like a video tape goes forward , backwards , uh fast and stuff yeah.

Okay so special navigation , linear access , random access


Like a video tape goes forward , backwards , uh fast and stuff yeah.

Okay so special navigation , linear access , random access


Okay so special navigation , linear access , random access


So the better now for special navigation ?


So the better now for special navigation ?

Yeah. For special navigation for example you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeah ?


Yeah. For special navigation for example you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeah ?


So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that um


So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that um

or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and  basically this is most of the  almost everybody has this stuff.


So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that um

or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and  basically this is most of the  almost everybody has this stuff.

Okay. Okay and and voice command did you uh


or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and  basically this is most of the  almost everybody has this stuff.

Okay. Okay and and voice command did you uh

Voice command w we could specify anything. We could assign any button  a command to any button , if we have enough processing power ,


Okay. Okay and and voice command did you uh

Voice command w we could specify anything. We could assign any button  a command to any button , if we have enough processing power ,


Voice command w we could specify anything. We could assign any button  a command to any button , if we have enough processing power ,


So that's uh that close your investigations ?


Maybe we can have a look at the user requirements with


Maybe we can have a look at the user requirements with

I dunno if I can open it. Maybe you can s


I dunno if I can open it. Maybe you can s


Maybe you can send it to me by email. Just to participant one. At AMI.


Maybe you can send it to me by email. Just to participant one. At AMI.

I will try to show it to everyone , that would be more comfortable.


I will try to show it to everyone , that would be more comfortable.


Okay. So maybe I can switch slides when you  whenever you ask ,


Okay. So maybe I can switch slides when you  whenever you ask ,

that will be more convenient. So okay , functional requirements.


Okay. So maybe I can switch slides when you  whenever you ask ,

that will be more convenient. So okay , functional requirements.

Okay so you can  you can go. Okay so  in our usability lab we observed the remote control use among one hundred subjects


that will be more convenient. So okay , functional requirements.

Okay so you can  you can go. Okay so  in our usability lab we observed the remote control use among one hundred subjects


that will be more convenient. So okay , functional requirements.

Okay so you can  you can go. Okay so  in our usability lab we observed the remote control use among one hundred subjects

and the subjects also filled a questionnaire


Okay so you can  you can go. Okay so  in our usability lab we observed the remote control use among one hundred subjects

and the subjects also filled a questionnaire


and the subjects also filled a questionnaire

okay ? And here I have the results so you can see that um seventy five per cent of users find most remote controls ugly so we have to find something to make them more  more nice , more kind. Eighty per cents of users would spend more money when the remote control would look fancy.  Eighty hundred per cent of users would spend more money when the remote control would look


okay ? And here I have the results so you can see that um seventy five per cent of users find most remote controls ugly so we have to find something to make them more  more nice , more kind. Eighty per cents of users would spend more money when the remote control would look fancy.  Eighty hundred per cent of users would spend more money when the remote control would look


okay ? And here I have the results so you can see that um seventy five per cent of users find most remote controls ugly so we have to find something to make them more  more nice , more kind. Eighty per cents of users would spend more money when the remote control would look fancy.  Eighty hundred per cent of users would spend more money when the remote control would look

So it's not in theory  but I I can I can say yeah.


So it's not in theory  but I I can I can say yeah.


So it's not in theory  but I I can I can say yeah.

Fifty f uh seventy five per cent of users say they s zap a lot. So mm  we have to have a remote control uh very um  out for that.  Uh the buttons have  are to be um uh uh like you say resist resisting to to shocks.


Fifty f uh seventy five per cent of users say they s zap a lot. So mm  we have to have a remote control uh very um  out for that.  Uh the buttons have  are to be um uh uh like you say resist resisting to to shocks.

Um and fifty per cents of users say they only use uh  ten per cents of but of the buttons in the  in the remote control.


Um and fifty per cents of users say they only use uh  ten per cents of but of the buttons in the  in the remote control.

So all the buttons we we have to put are  have to to have um a use a real use


So all the buttons we we have to put are  have to to have um a use a real use


So all the buttons we we have to put are  have to to have um a use a real use

Okay , so fewer buttons maybe would be good ?


Okay , so fewer buttons maybe would be good ?

Yeah. F not many buttons , and uh and uh uh u useable buttons .


Okay , so fewer buttons maybe would be good ?

Yeah. F not many buttons , and uh and uh uh u useable buttons .

But what kind of remote controls did you look at ?


Yeah. F not many buttons , and uh and uh uh u useable buttons .

But what kind of remote controls did you look at ?


But what kind of remote controls did you look at ?

What kind of task was it ? It was a T_V_ ?


What kind of task was it ? It was a T_V_ ?

Yeah. Yeah but in fact we  it it seems that we are going to make a T_V_ remote control according to new requirements I received from the management


Yeah. Yeah but in fact we  it it seems that we are going to make a T_V_ remote control according to new requirements I received from the management

bo I will present them in the following.


bo I will present them in the following.


So there are other frustrations expressed by users , so they said uh they lost uh often the remote control in in the room so they want to have a way to  to


Um and um lot of the time they  it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote control.


Um and um lot of the time they  it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote control.

So they want something s really very simple and uh easy to use.


So they want something s really very simple and uh easy to use.


It i can become painful you can have tendonditis.


If you also  up on a computer in a strange position.


If you also  up on a computer in a strange position.

Okay so you  we have to make it uh more ergonomic yeah.


Okay so you  we have to make it uh more ergonomic yeah.


Okay um before that I I have some some  some thing  uh to say before um


Okay um before that I I have some some  some thing  uh to say before um

We know that uh the user use uh a lot their um remote control um to to change channel.


We know that uh the user use uh a lot their um remote control um to to change channel.

Um and um to to change uh volume selection of the


Um and um to to change uh volume selection of the

and uh and not uh a lot for setting  for setting the the channels and uh thing things like that.


and uh and not uh a lot for setting  for setting the the channels and uh thing things like that.


So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and


So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and

Yeah. This function should be very uh accessible.


So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and

Yeah. This function should be very uh accessible.

Yeah , okay. This is the main function okay.


Yeah. This function should be very uh accessible.

Yeah , okay. This is the main function okay.

That's right.  So then we asked some questions to them


Yeah , okay. This is the main function okay.

That's right.  So then we asked some questions to them


Yeah , okay. This is the main function okay.

That's right.  So then we asked some questions to them

and um we asked this question if they prefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes control


That's right.  So then we asked some questions to them

and um we asked this question if they prefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes control


and um we asked this question if they prefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes control

and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote control


and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote control

and you can go  we have here the results of


and you can go  we have here the results of


to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.


to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.

So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.


So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.


So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.

Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can


Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can


Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can

we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.


we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.


we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.

Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before , I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.


Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before , I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.


Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before , I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.

Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before ,


Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before ,

e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to


e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to


I dunno if you see something else important or


Um  We want to have a  no , I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to have a a general remote control for everything.


Um  We want to have a  no , I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to have a a general remote control for everything.

No no no. We  w it seems that we no want to have a T_V_ remote control. From the management board I receive an email.


No no no. We  w it seems that we no want to have a T_V_ remote control. From the management board I receive an email.

Cos it would be costly uh and and also it it would take more time to develop to have a a general generic remote control.


Cos it would be costly uh and and also it it would take more time to develop to have a a general generic remote control.


Cos it would be costly uh and and also it it would take more time to develop to have a a general generic remote control.

Mm  I  it's not true I think. The the second claim that you put.


Mm  I  it's not true I think. The the second claim that you put.


Oh yeah. Because I received that email from management board and they seems to tell that that if we want to be on the market as early as possible we should uh focus on T_V_ more where it seems that the market is more important. So maybe it's a good decision. I dunno. What's your opinion ?


Oh yeah. Because I received that email from management board and they seems to tell that that if we want to be on the market as early as possible we should uh focus on T_V_ more where it seems that the market is more important. So maybe it's a good decision. I dunno. What's your opinion ?

I have uh I've no idea I mean I should know a bit more about how fast we can uh design it.


I have uh I've no idea I mean I should know a bit more about how fast we can uh design it.


But basically yeah maybe I can continue with my presentation , it would be al you  you


but I think we have some technical problem or so. So I'm just going to describe briefly what we do in the remote control.


but I think we have some technical problem or so. So I'm just going to describe briefly what we do in the remote control.

Maybe you can go to the whiteboard if you have some drawings to do


Maybe you can go to the whiteboard if you have some drawings to do


Like a  you feel a bit like a dog with this stuff.


Like a  you feel a bit like a dog with this stuff.

Okay so I'm just going to describe  in fact for for a remote control this is quite easy. We just have


Okay so I'm just going to describe  in fact for for a remote control this is quite easy. We just have


Like that. I'm just going to describe. Basically we have a a battery a power supply here. After that we just have um user interface. Let's say that um something like that , which could be um a L_C_D_ let's say or um an array of push button , something like that. Push button or a L_C_D_. After that we we feed that into um uh an electronic chip. So I say U_C_ and I feed that to uh L_E_D_ which is uh infrared  um which is a an infrared um component. And so what we  for for myself this  for for us this is quite easy.


Y it's a  it's  this just a chip which does all the um numerical


Y it's a  it's  this just a chip which does all the um numerical

numerical computation according to your display.


numerical computation according to your display.

And so for us uh this is quite easy. We just need to take  to define what we want to do when the user interface um wants something and after that we just do the coding to s and send that to to to the  not the  to the television.


And so for us uh this is quite easy. We just need to take  to define what we want to do when the user interface um wants something and after that we just do the coding to s and send that to to to the  not the  to the television.


And so for us uh this is quite easy. We just need to take  to define what we want to do when the user interface um wants something and after that we just do the coding to s and send that to to to the  not the  to the television.

Okay so this is quite easy. There is not that much constraints.


Okay so this is quite easy. There is not that much constraints.

Yeah. Um we just have to define the processing power that we need uh especially if we want to do some uh speech recognition , in that case that mean that we are going to use more for simple


Okay so this is quite easy. There is not that much constraints.

Yeah. Um we just have to define the processing power that we need uh especially if we want to do some uh speech recognition , in that case that mean that we are going to use more for simple

This will  think this will take more time to develop also.


Yeah. Um we just have to define the processing power that we need uh especially if we want to do some uh speech recognition , in that case that mean that we are going to use more for simple

This will  think this will take more time to develop also.


This will  think this will take more time to develop also.

And um but for a standard one this is really easy. It's a question of one month and so on s


And um but for a standard one this is really easy. It's a question of one month and so on s


And um but for a standard one this is really easy. It's a question of one month and so on s

To have a  you s you speak about with voi voice control ?


To have a  you s you speak about with voi voice control ?


To have a  you s you speak about with voi voice control ?

I say  yeah  standard uh standard remote control takes maybe uh one month to to do that.


I say  yeah  standard uh standard remote control takes maybe uh one month to to do that.

Yeah. So the only time problem is the sp voice recognition.


Yeah. So the only time problem is the sp voice recognition.


So do you have any idea of how long it would take to have voice recognition now ?


So do you have any idea of how long it would take to have voice recognition now ?

I would say uh about eight months to have the first results.


I would say uh about eight months to have the first results.


I would say uh about eight months to have the first results.

One month for the standard one with button.


One month for the standard one with button.


One month for the standard one with button.

Yeah even. I mean that this is really standard devices now. Um eight. For uh speech recognition.


Yeah even. I mean that this is really standard devices now. Um eight. For uh speech recognition.

Okay yeah. Okay so we can take this into account. So who think it would be good to go for uh like speech recognition ?


Okay yeah. Okay so we can take this into account. So who think it would be good to go for uh like speech recognition ?


during the kickoff meeting you say that we we shouldn't  we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unit


during the kickoff meeting you say that we we shouldn't  we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unit

so how many units should we sell to have a


so how many units should we sell to have a

Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.


Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.

How muc how much do you get  how much do you  if you buy one million units h no , one hundred thousand units.


How muc how much do you get  how much do you  if you buy one million units h no , one hundred thousand units.


How muc how much do you get  how much do you  if you buy one million units h no , one hundred thousand units.

Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousand ?


Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousand ?

Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.


Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.

So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.


So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.


It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.


Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.


Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.

Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presenta ?


Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presenta ?


Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per cent


Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per cent

of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.


of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.

Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason ? To to


Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason ? To to

maybe to keep in mind maybe to access to that menu you should do something like that.


Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason ? To to

maybe to keep in mind maybe to access to that menu you should do something like that.

Would j Uh  yeah w I I think they they say that it's uh difficult to learn how to use it but i when you know how to use it , it's it's okay.


maybe to keep in mind maybe to access to that menu you should do something like that.

Would j Uh  yeah w I I think they they say that it's uh difficult to learn how to use it but i when you know how to use it , it's it's okay.


Would j Uh  yeah w I I think they they say that it's uh difficult to learn how to use it but i when you know how to use it , it's it's okay.


But yeah maybe and what about if we design a remote control which can be configure as you want ? You say that I want , I have six button


But yeah maybe and what about if we design a remote control which can be configure as you want ? You say that I want , I have six button

Mh-hmm. A a lot of people are uh  if you have the L_C_D_ screen if you can do it completely the way you want because the buttons also look the way you want them


Mh-hmm. A a lot of people are uh  if you have the L_C_D_ screen if you can do it completely the way you want because the buttons also look the way you want them


but it will be hard to configure I mean imagine i uh


but it will be hard to configure I mean imagine i uh

so it's really something for the expert user. So


so it's really something for the expert user. So


so it's really something for the expert user. So

I mean there are markets and markets. I think the young people are th uh are uh


I mean there are markets and markets. I think the young people are th uh are uh


uh it is yeah.  So for our young people uh it will be cool , they can be able to use it. Th maybe their parents will not but they will configure it. I guess. I don't know if there is study about that.


uh it is yeah.  So for our young people uh it will be cool , they can be able to use it. Th maybe their parents will not but they will configure it. I guess. I don't know if there is study about that.

Yeah. Maybe it would be more complex to configure it to be simple  than creating a simple product.


Yeah. Maybe it would be more complex to configure it to be simple  than creating a simple product.


And there are  another thing is that if we make something that's simple and easy to use that's bas to use immediately that means that it will be exactly the same as everything else.


Otherwise , if it's different then of course everybody has  somebody has to learn to use it first.


Otherwise , if it's different then of course everybody has  somebody has to learn to use it first.

But also we we see that that most people find it  find remote controls too complex because they have too many buttons and they mainly use only channels and volume buttons.


But also we we see that that most people find it  find remote controls too complex because they have too many buttons and they mainly use only channels and volume buttons.


But also we we see that that most people find it  find remote controls too complex because they have too many buttons and they mainly use only channels and volume buttons.

So we may just uh make a very easy to use remote control with mainly those buttons


So we may just uh make a very easy to use remote control with mainly those buttons


So we may just uh make a very easy to use remote control with mainly those buttons

and maybe also um some lightning stuff too because most people find also hard to to find the remote control. Losed lose it etcetera.


and maybe also um some lightning stuff too because most people find also hard to to find the remote control. Losed lose it etcetera.

These  these are  these two points are the main frustrations so maybe if we design something very simple and easy to uh find when lost it will uh add uh a serious competitive advantage without making something too complex and too long to develop.


These  these are  these two points are the main frustrations so maybe if we design something very simple and easy to uh find when lost it will uh add uh a serious competitive advantage without making something too complex and too long to develop.


These  these are  these two points are the main frustrations so maybe if we design something very simple and easy to uh find when lost it will uh add uh a serious competitive advantage without making something too complex and too long to develop.

So but le let us see first the new requirement. So we don't have to  so this this uh is uh is um in the this is in the same direction as we were speaking so we don't have to make a very complex remote controls to access teletext and stuff like that


So but le let us see first the new requirement. So we don't have to  so this this uh is uh is um in the this is in the same direction as we were speaking so we don't have to make a very complex remote controls to access teletext and stuff like that


So but le let us see first the new requirement. So we don't have to  so this this uh is uh is um in the this is in the same direction as we were speaking so we don't have to make a very complex remote controls to access teletext and stuff like that

Yeah but then you have to  you have to define the buttons to surf amongst pages and stuff.


So but le let us see first the new requirement. So we don't have to  so this this uh is uh is um in the this is in the same direction as we were speaking so we don't have to make a very complex remote controls to access teletext and stuff like that

Yeah but then you have to  you have to define the buttons to surf amongst pages and stuff.

You you just write the  write the numbers.


Yeah but then you have to  you have to define the buttons to surf amongst pages and stuff.

You you just write the  write the numbers.


Yeah but then you have to  you have to define the buttons to surf amongst pages and stuff.

You you just write the  write the numbers.

So will you add with the channel keys , right ?


You you just write the  write the numbers.

So will you add with the channel keys , right ?

Yeah. So anyway we don't have to include this feature because it's it's not used any more by users ,


So will you add with the channel keys , right ?

Yeah. So anyway we don't have to include this feature because it's it's not used any more by users ,


Yeah. So anyway we don't have to include this feature because it's it's not used any more by users ,

I am. I'm sure that uh it don't like but uh I don't see just one button.


I am. I'm sure that uh it don't like but uh I don't see just one button.


I am. I'm sure that uh it don't like but uh I don't see just one button.

If i one button is still one more button. If  if  if we want to make it very simple we have to reduce number of buttons compared to th to our competitors.


If i one button is still one more button. If  if  if we want to make it very simple we have to reduce number of buttons compared to th to our competitors.


If i one button is still one more button. If  if  if we want to make it very simple we have to reduce number of buttons compared to th to our competitors.

Well anyway I have this point. We can discuss. Also um  so as as I told before uh it would be better if it's only for the T_V_ um because we want to be quick on on the market. And then also we have to make very uh uh clear that this uh this remote control is is part of of our products and show our corporate uh logo and and colours on the  on the design as well so that uh they identify it as one of our product. So this is the the key point.


If i one button is still one more button. If  if  if we want to make it very simple we have to reduce number of buttons compared to th to our competitors.

Well anyway I have this point. We can discuss. Also um  so as as I told before uh it would be better if it's only for the T_V_ um because we want to be quick on on the market. And then also we have to make very uh uh clear that this uh this remote control is is part of of our products and show our corporate uh logo and and colours on the  on the design as well so that uh they identify it as one of our product. So this is the the key point.

So before uh finishing we can uh define uh what would be the characteristic of the  o th of the control  of the remote control and which button do we need which function do we want etcetera.