So that's the next bullet is the um the kinetic provision of energy ,

so it's like that flashlight where you have to shake it .


so it's like that flashlight where you have to shake it .


so it's like that flashlight where you have to shake it .

Uh we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a very good idea because um you could not use your remote at night  which doesn't make a lot of sense.


Uh we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a very good idea because um you could not use your remote at night  which doesn't make a lot of sense.


Uh we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a very good idea because um you could not use your remote at night  which doesn't make a lot of sense.

And finally we've got our cradle o our power cradle idea.


Uh we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a very good idea because um you could not use your remote at night  which doesn't make a lot of sense.

And finally we've got our cradle o our power cradle idea.

Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle here ?


And finally we've got our cradle o our power cradle idea.

Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle here ?

M battery versus cradle I think is  yeah.


Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle here ?

M battery versus cradle I think is  yeah.


M battery versus cradle I think is  yeah.


It's actually a novel thing because you could sell it a as a novelty , just to be actually serious for a minute here ,


It's actually a novel thing because you could sell it a as a novelty , just to be actually serious for a minute here ,

Well it is it is more uh  I mean it is more eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle. So um


Well it is it is more uh  I mean it is more eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle. So um


Well it is it is more uh  I mean it is more eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle. So um

our case design. We have uh choices in materials and choices in the general shapes that we can do. Our material choices are a plastic latex um ty or plastic , a rubber latex type thing , uh wood , or titanium. If we go with titanium we're gonna be uh limited in the amount of shapes we can do because it's tough to shape the titanium , and uh  Yeah pers


Well it is it is more uh  I mean it is more eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle. So um

our case design. We have uh choices in materials and choices in the general shapes that we can do. Our material choices are a plastic latex um ty or plastic , a rubber latex type thing , uh wood , or titanium. If we go with titanium we're gonna be uh limited in the amount of shapes we can do because it's tough to shape the titanium , and uh  Yeah pers

Wood wood would ge would give us a little bit of a marketing niche , wouldn't it.


our case design. We have uh choices in materials and choices in the general shapes that we can do. Our material choices are a plastic latex um ty or plastic , a rubber latex type thing , uh wood , or titanium. If we go with titanium we're gonna be uh limited in the amount of shapes we can do because it's tough to shape the titanium , and uh  Yeah pers

Wood wood would ge would give us a little bit of a marketing niche , wouldn't it.


Wood wood would ge would give us a little bit of a marketing niche , wouldn't it.


I I can't see anybody wanting to use a wooden remote , it's just anti-technology really , you know.


I I can't see anybody wanting to use a wooden remote , it's just anti-technology really , you know.

Uh uh to me in a marketing sense it's not it's not relative. We can we can o we can uh accentuate whatever  whatever product you put in there we can find a way to accentuate it.


Uh uh to me in a marketing sense it's not it's not relative. We can we can o we can uh accentuate whatever  whatever product you put in there we can find a way to accentuate it.


Uh uh to me in a marketing sense it's not it's not relative. We can we can o we can uh accentuate whatever  whatever product you put in there we can find a way to accentuate it.

And what we may be able to do , and I think this might be the best option is to combine some  a couple of these. Um my recommendation personally would be to do some kind of a plastic inner shell with a like a rubber outer shell , to make it um to mak uh like a thick plastic inner shell and a t um kind of a  to have that rubber outer shell to make it more durable , and also maybe i I think it feels a little better than the plastic.


And what we may be able to do , and I think this might be the best option is to combine some  a couple of these. Um my recommendation personally would be to do some kind of a plastic inner shell with a like a rubber outer shell , to make it um to mak uh like a thick plastic inner shell and a t um kind of a  to have that rubber outer shell to make it more durable , and also maybe i I think it feels a little better than the plastic.

'Kay. Do you get a good grip on the rubber ? Yeah okay.


And what we may be able to do , and I think this might be the best option is to combine some  a couple of these. Um my recommendation personally would be to do some kind of a plastic inner shell with a like a rubber outer shell , to make it um to mak uh like a thick plastic inner shell and a t um kind of a  to have that rubber outer shell to make it more durable , and also maybe i I think it feels a little better than the plastic.

'Kay. Do you get a good grip on the rubber ? Yeah okay.

And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand.


'Kay. Do you get a good grip on the rubber ? Yeah okay.

And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand.


And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand.

You don't even need to lean down to get it.


And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand.

You don't even need to lean down to get it.

The advantages of working with plastic and rubber is  w we we'll have a lot more um options just in terms of shape


You don't even need to lean down to get it.

The advantages of working with plastic and rubber is  w we we'll have a lot more um options just in terms of shape

because you can extrude plastic in basically any shape you want. So um  and then we can cover you know the breakable bits with rubber yeah so um


The advantages of working with plastic and rubber is  w we we'll have a lot more um options just in terms of shape

because you can extrude plastic in basically any shape you want. So um  and then we can cover you know the breakable bits with rubber yeah so um

But basically these are  curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their um  in their  message to me , that they were referring to the number of th curves in the bottom. I have no idea exactly what they're talking about ,


because you can extrude plastic in basically any shape you want. So um  and then we can cover you know the breakable bits with rubber yeah so um

But basically these are  curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their um  in their  message to me , that they were referring to the number of th curves in the bottom. I have no idea exactly what they're talking about ,


But basically these are  curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their um  in their  message to me , that they were referring to the number of th curves in the bottom. I have no idea exactly what they're talking about ,

but that's what they told me ,  uncurved , flat , curved , or double-curved.


But basically these are  curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their um  in their  message to me , that they were referring to the number of th curves in the bottom. I have no idea exactly what they're talking about ,

but that's what they told me ,  uncurved , flat , curved , or double-curved.

I would guess this like this pen would be kinda like a double-curved , where it's curved on m m multiple axes , right ? I think curved means just curved in one axis and double-curved is curved in two axes


but that's what they told me ,  uncurved , flat , curved , or double-curved.

I would guess this like this pen would be kinda like a double-curved , where it's curved on m m multiple axes , right ? I think curved means just curved in one axis and double-curved is curved in two axes


I would guess this like this pen would be kinda like a double-curved , where it's curved on m m multiple axes , right ? I think curved means just curved in one axis and double-curved is curved in two axes

I think it might mean something like that sorta shape because a double curve rather than a


I think it might mean something like that sorta shape because a double curve rather than a

Mm-hmm yeah that's  yeah that's what I see.


Mm-hmm yeah that's  yeah that's what I see.


Alright that makes sense okay. Um okay , with the interface we have the following options , we can u we can use push buttons , we can use a scroll wheel with an integrated push button , and L_C_D_ display ,


Alright that makes sense okay. Um okay , with the interface we have the following options , we can u we can use push buttons , we can use a scroll wheel with an integrated push button , and L_C_D_ display ,

or multiple scrolling wheels. Um so these are all options that the user interface guy can uh  has at his disposal to put together a user interface.


or multiple scrolling wheels. Um so these are all options that the user interface guy can uh  has at his disposal to put together a user interface.

For electronics , we have these very technical um  descriptions here. A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you ,


or multiple scrolling wheels. Um so these are all options that the user interface guy can uh  has at his disposal to put together a user interface.

For electronics , we have these very technical um  descriptions here. A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you ,

a regular chip , which is  like the medium porridge  the  medium expense uh


For electronics , we have these very technical um  descriptions here. A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you ,

a regular chip , which is  like the medium porridge  the  medium expense uh

D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ?


For electronics , we have these very technical um  descriptions here. A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you ,

a regular chip , which is  like the medium porridge  the  medium expense uh

D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ?

Yes the difference is , with a simple chip  a simple chip will operate  oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previous previous , okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.


a regular chip , which is  like the medium porridge  the  medium expense uh

D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ?

Yes the difference is , with a simple chip  a simple chip will operate  oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previous previous , okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.


D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ?

Yes the difference is , with a simple chip  a simple chip will operate  oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previous previous , okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.

Um  an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't say specifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.


Yes the difference is , with a simple chip  a simple chip will operate  oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previous previous , okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.

Um  an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't say specifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.


Um  an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't say specifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.


Um  an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't say specifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.

Yeah that makes sense. So presentation from  I guess design would go best. Next.


Yeah that makes sense. So presentation from  I guess design would go best. Next.


Yeah that makes sense. So presentation from  I guess design would go best. Next.

Technical functions or interface concept ?


Technical functions or interface concept ?


Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well. Um so , somehow that thing's too big , but um  okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition. They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so.


Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well. Um so , somehow that thing's too big , but um  okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition. They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so.

No. It it it  you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and


No. It it it  you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and

That's just  I mean it'll  if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel.


No. It it it  you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and

That's just  I mean it'll  if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel.

Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore ,


That's just  I mean it'll  if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel.

Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore ,


That's just  I mean it'll  if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel.

Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore ,

and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep.


Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore ,

and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep.

But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ?


and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep.

But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ?


and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep.

But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ?

Well then why don't you just press the up button ?


But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ?

Well then why don't you just press the up button ?


Well then why don't you just press the up button ?


Well then why don't you just press the up button ?

But if it's just one thing with a button that you can just go  Up.


But if it's just one thing with a button that you can just go  Up.

Even still there's gonna be interf th there's there still will be interference from the T_V_.


Even still there's gonna be interf th there's there still will be interference from the T_V_.

It might not be it might not be completely confusing , but I think you'll still y it's still


It might not be it might not be completely confusing , but I think you'll still y it's still

I don't think it's practical at all. I think it's a bad idea frankly.


It might not be it might not be completely confusing , but I think you'll still y it's still

I don't think it's practical at all. I think it's a bad idea frankly.

Yeah so um taking that away , our uh  the the the rubber but rubber buttons are the more reliable


I don't think it's practical at all. I think it's a bad idea frankly.

Yeah so um taking that away , our uh  the the the rubber but rubber buttons are the more reliable


Yeah so um taking that away , our uh  the the the rubber but rubber buttons are the more reliable

it's the the ones that would al would allow us to to market our product as being you know less prone to damage and more resistant to things like spillage of liquids over it or you know mistreat misuses as it happens to remote controls. Um as for the point that we making about losing it. Well , we wanna small r remote control one side because uh we want it to be cool and uh designed , but um apparently um market shows that bigger s bigger um remotes get less lost ,


it's the the ones that would al would allow us to to market our product as being you know less prone to damage and more resistant to things like spillage of liquids over it or you know mistreat misuses as it happens to remote controls. Um as for the point that we making about losing it. Well , we wanna small r remote control one side because uh we want it to be cool and uh designed , but um apparently um market shows that bigger s bigger um remotes get less lost ,


But um yeah I think we we need to compromise between those two and somehow we'll do that. Somehow. Um so  the the  what I would propose is something more or less in the uh direction of what is to yo the right of that slide uh but without  with a l a less complicated um design , so the numbers , the volume control , and channel control , and teletext access. Uh the volume and channel control can just become those the the four button array as in if it was a round dial.


But um yeah I think we we need to compromise between those two and somehow we'll do that. Somehow. Um so  the the  what I would propose is something more or less in the uh direction of what is to yo the right of that slide uh but without  with a l a less complicated um design , so the numbers , the volume control , and channel control , and teletext access. Uh the volume and channel control can just become those the the four button array as in if it was a round dial.

And um if you just think about it as the one to the right but with the numbers and the four buttons plus maybe a centre one with teletext.


But um yeah I think we we need to compromise between those two and somehow we'll do that. Somehow. Um so  the the  what I would propose is something more or less in the uh direction of what is to yo the right of that slide uh but without  with a l a less complicated um design , so the numbers , the volume control , and channel control , and teletext access. Uh the volume and channel control can just become those the the four button array as in if it was a round dial.

And um if you just think about it as the one to the right but with the numbers and the four buttons plus maybe a centre one with teletext.

So we're suggesting doing a sorta scroll wheel thing for the volume ?


And um if you just think about it as the one to the right but with the numbers and the four buttons plus maybe a centre one with teletext.

So we're suggesting doing a sorta scroll wheel thing for the volume ?


So we're suggesting doing a sorta scroll wheel thing for the volume ?

i i it's just four buttons that are on a cross ,


i i it's just four buttons that are on a cross ,


i i it's just four buttons that are on a cross ,

so that you ba basically can control all of the important tasks from that  alone.


so that you ba basically can control all of the important tasks from that  alone.


so that you ba basically can control all of the important tasks from that  alone.

Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter.


Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter.


Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter.

Yeah um yeah so I think we w we go for something mid-sized , so something looks good


Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter.

Yeah um yeah so I think we w we go for something mid-sized , so something looks good

and uh is not too prone to get lost. That be it.


Yeah um yeah so I think we w we go for something mid-sized , so something looks good

and uh is not too prone to get lost. That be it.

'Kay. So on to  Y functional requirements or trend watching ?


and uh is not too prone to get lost. That be it.

'Kay. So on to  Y functional requirements or trend watching ?


'Kay. So on to  Y functional requirements or trend watching ?

Trend watching I guess. Trend watching I believe.


Trend watching I guess. Trend watching I believe.


Trend watching I guess. Trend watching I believe.

See what it looks like. It's been so long.


Trend watching I guess. Trend watching I believe.

See what it looks like. It's been so long.

Well  I don't know what to say. When I s when I see the  when I see the product I I I I don't wanna buy it. I see so many of 'em out there. There's nothing about that product that makes me wanna choose that product over other products that are out there.


See what it looks like. It's been so long.

Well  I don't know what to say. When I s when I see the  when I see the product I I I I don't wanna buy it. I see so many of 'em out there. There's nothing about that product that makes me wanna choose that product over other products that are out there.

Are you talking about the picture ? That's not our that's not our b design ,


Well  I don't know what to say. When I s when I see the  when I see the product I I I I don't wanna buy it. I see so many of 'em out there. There's nothing about that product that makes me wanna choose that product over other products that are out there.

Are you talking about the picture ? That's not our that's not our b design ,

that's just a  that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like.


Are you talking about the picture ? That's not our that's not our b design ,

that's just a  that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like.

Okay. Okay. Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to say about how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet.


that's just a  that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like.

Okay. Okay. Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to say about how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet.


that's just a  that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like.

Okay. Okay. Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to say about how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet.

And uh from from talking to Mike is that we have we have uh we can market a more expensive product now. That's what I understand so ,


Okay. Okay. Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to say about how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet.

And uh from from talking to Mike is that we have we have uh we can market a more expensive product now. That's what I understand so ,


And uh from from talking to Mike is that we have we have uh we can market a more expensive product now. That's what I understand so ,


And uh from from talking to Mike is that we have we have uh we can market a more expensive product now. That's what I understand so ,

Uh e excuse that , that's a bit of spam.


Uh e excuse that , that's a bit of spam.

And and so  yeah I'm a I'm a little bit stuck right now in that what uh w what is it that I'm gonna market ? Uh without special or increased marketable features I don't believe the product has a consumer demand. Uh I like the idea of of the scroll makin  there are so many people making these products at this price right now. What are we gonna do to make this one special and unique ?


Uh e excuse that , that's a bit of spam.

And and so  yeah I'm a I'm a little bit stuck right now in that what uh w what is it that I'm gonna market ? Uh without special or increased marketable features I don't believe the product has a consumer demand. Uh I like the idea of of the scroll makin  there are so many people making these products at this price right now. What are we gonna do to make this one special and unique ?

What's special and unique about a scroll ?


And and so  yeah I'm a I'm a little bit stuck right now in that what uh w what is it that I'm gonna market ? Uh without special or increased marketable features I don't believe the product has a consumer demand. Uh I like the idea of of the scroll makin  there are so many people making these products at this price right now. What are we gonna do to make this one special and unique ?

What's special and unique about a scroll ?


What's special and unique about a scroll ?

yeah it's  I I just see it as different. I don't say it's specially mm  I don't say it's special. Uh I say that it's different I  what I'm looking for as marketing is m give me something different. I give me a lower price , give me a higher price , give me some new technology , don't give me the same thing that everybody else is putting out there on the shelf it's f at the same price. I need something to market about this thing. We're we're a new firm.


yeah it's  I I just see it as different. I don't say it's specially mm  I don't say it's special. Uh I say that it's different I  what I'm looking for as marketing is m give me something different. I give me a lower price , give me a higher price , give me some new technology , don't give me the same thing that everybody else is putting out there on the shelf it's f at the same price. I need something to market about this thing. We're we're a new firm.

I'd I'd say though that we  if we did make the decision to go with the cradle though , the then we have that as well ,


I'd I'd say though that we  if we did make the decision to go with the cradle though , the then we have that as well ,

yeah when we when we have something like the cradle or or something give that's  as as a marketing standard  I need something to market , to make this product unique.


yeah when we when we have something like the cradle or or something give that's  as as a marketing standard  I need something to market , to make this product unique.

Well right I think the two big th points that we have so far are the  having the cradle and also having uh the um the actual design of the uh case itself having like this like rubber shell maybe with a plastic interior ,


yeah when we when we have something like the cradle or or something give that's  as as a marketing standard  I need something to market , to make this product unique.

Well right I think the two big th points that we have so far are the  having the cradle and also having uh the um the actual design of the uh case itself having like this like rubber shell maybe with a plastic interior ,

having it look really nice um and also be really durable.


Well right I think the two big th points that we have so far are the  having the cradle and also having uh the um the actual design of the uh case itself having like this like rubber shell maybe with a plastic interior ,

having it look really nice um and also be really durable.

Mm 'kay. Just remember when I made up this report I didn't have the information that we're discussing here.


having it look really nice um and also be really durable.

Mm 'kay. Just remember when I made up this report I didn't have the information that we're discussing here.


Mm 'kay. Just remember when I made up this report I didn't have the information that we're discussing here.

And and so so uh yeah when we have a cradle , when we have some kind of design , so what I'm saying is , from my perspective , I don't have a product to market right now. Um uh my personal preference is that we make some adjustment in the cost , either lower or develop an integrated new technol technology. That's that is the next step , there's technology and then there is technology , which we're moving into the next phase.


And and so so uh yeah when we have a cradle , when we have some kind of design , so what I'm saying is , from my perspective , I don't have a product to market right now. Um uh my personal preference is that we make some adjustment in the cost , either lower or develop an integrated new technol technology. That's that is the next step , there's technology and then there is technology , which we're moving into the next phase.


And and so so uh yeah when we have a cradle , when we have some kind of design , so what I'm saying is , from my perspective , I don't have a product to market right now. Um uh my personal preference is that we make some adjustment in the cost , either lower or develop an integrated new technol technology. That's that is the next step , there's technology and then there is technology , which we're moving into the next phase.

And so uh we're gonna have some new technology to enhance the marketability. Yeah uh again I'm not sold on the product because we don't have a product in my opinion yet.


And so uh we're gonna have some new technology to enhance the marketability. Yeah uh again I'm not sold on the product because we don't have a product in my opinion yet.


I need a product to market. And I just  whatever product you guys put together , we'll find a way to market it. Tha that I'm not concerned with.


I need a product to market. And I just  whatever product you guys put together , we'll find a way to market it. Tha that I'm not concerned with.

If you if you give me  if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost.


I need a product to market. And I just  whatever product you guys put together , we'll find a way to market it. Tha that I'm not concerned with.

If you if you give me  if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost.

So our big  questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ? Uh d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ?


If you if you give me  if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost.

So our big  questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ? Uh d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ?

Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that


If you if you give me  if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost.

So our big  questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ? Uh d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ?

Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that

Oh but that was in your presentation  so wh what would you imagine it doing ?


So our big  questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ? Uh d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ?

Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that

Oh but that was in your presentation  so wh what would you imagine it doing ?


Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that

Oh but that was in your presentation  so wh what would you imagine it doing ?

Yeah. Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do.


Oh but that was in your presentation  so wh what would you imagine it doing ?

Yeah. Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do.


Yeah. Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do.


Yeah. Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do.

Okay now what I see with the scroll wheel is everybody has buttons. So from a marketing standpoint I have I have another door to walk through when we have something that's unique.


Okay now what I see with the scroll wheel is everybody has buttons. So from a marketing standpoint I have I have another door to walk through when we have something that's unique.


Okay now what I see with the scroll wheel is everybody has buttons. So from a marketing standpoint I have I have another door to walk through when we have something that's unique.

If it creates something more complex or more expensive , then I don't know if that makes it uh a marketing necessity. But again , from a marketing perspective I want as much new and different about this thing as possible because we're we're co  it's a very competitive market.


Okay now what I see with the scroll wheel is everybody has buttons. So from a marketing standpoint I have I have another door to walk through when we have something that's unique.

If it creates something more complex or more expensive , then I don't know if that makes it uh a marketing necessity. But again , from a marketing perspective I want as much new and different about this thing as possible because we're we're co  it's a very competitive market.

What I understand about scroll wheels is they're they're quite expensive to to make.


If it creates something more complex or more expensive , then I don't know if that makes it uh a marketing necessity. But again , from a marketing perspective I want as much new and different about this thing as possible because we're we're co  it's a very competitive market.

What I understand about scroll wheels is they're they're quite expensive to to make.


What I understand about scroll wheels is they're they're quite expensive to to make.

Th they are gonna be more expensive , but on the other hand , I mean , it  I mean it is an alternative if if you think that's gonna sell some some uh you know  if if we're gonna make up the extra cost by extra sales I think maybe it's worth it to do it , but I mean I would just use  if I was gonna do this I would just use the scroll wheel for s channels up and channels down. I don't think volume  or do you think volume would be


Th they are gonna be more expensive , but on the other hand , I mean , it  I mean it is an alternative if if you think that's gonna sell some some uh you know  if if we're gonna make up the extra cost by extra sales I think maybe it's worth it to do it , but I mean I would just use  if I was gonna do this I would just use the scroll wheel for s channels up and channels down. I don't think volume  or do you think volume would be

I dunno. I'll bet first in volume maybe. I dunno.


Th they are gonna be more expensive , but on the other hand , I mean , it  I mean it is an alternative if if you think that's gonna sell some some uh you know  if if we're gonna make up the extra cost by extra sales I think maybe it's worth it to do it , but I mean I would just use  if I was gonna do this I would just use the scroll wheel for s channels up and channels down. I don't think volume  or do you think volume would be

I dunno. I'll bet first in volume maybe. I dunno.

No we can  we can do multiple scroll wheels but


Th they are gonna be more expensive , but on the other hand , I mean , it  I mean it is an alternative if if you think that's gonna sell some some uh you know  if if we're gonna make up the extra cost by extra sales I think maybe it's worth it to do it , but I mean I would just use  if I was gonna do this I would just use the scroll wheel for s channels up and channels down. I don't think volume  or do you think volume would be

I dunno. I'll bet first in volume maybe. I dunno.

No we can  we can do multiple scroll wheels but

Well I d I like the idea of basically focusing the   my personal preference is focusing the p the product on the idea of the uh the case the the  uh dock to put it in  to to charge it. We can target like environmentally friendly ideas , that sorta things.


I dunno. I'll bet first in volume maybe. I dunno.

No we can  we can do multiple scroll wheels but

Well I d I like the idea of basically focusing the   my personal preference is focusing the p the product on the idea of the uh the case the the  uh dock to put it in  to to charge it. We can target like environmentally friendly ideas , that sorta things.


No we can  we can do multiple scroll wheels but

Well I d I like the idea of basically focusing the   my personal preference is focusing the p the product on the idea of the uh the case the the  uh dock to put it in  to to charge it. We can target like environmentally friendly ideas , that sorta things.


Well I d I like the idea of basically focusing the   my personal preference is focusing the p the product on the idea of the uh the case the the  uh dock to put it in  to to charge it. We can target like environmentally friendly ideas , that sorta things.


it's easy to differentiate the product , yeah so.


it's easy to differentiate the product , yeah so.

And if we we keep the rest in a format that is durable because th th the whole product's gonna need to be more durable th thus because you're not going to be ditching it as often.


And if we we keep the rest in a format that is durable because th th the whole product's gonna need to be more durable th thus because you're not going to be ditching it as often.

It's gonna need to be more expensive because of the cradle.


It's gonna need to be more expensive because of the cradle.

So if we can market it in terms of that and yeah well


It's gonna need to be more expensive because of the cradle.

So if we can market it in terms of that and yeah well

Yep. I think we got some exclusivity in that , you know , we got something that nobody else has right now ,


So if we can market it in terms of that and yeah well

Yep. I think we got some exclusivity in that , you know , we got something that nobody else has right now ,


So if we can market it in terms of that and yeah well

Yep. I think we got some exclusivity in that , you know , we got something that nobody else has right now ,

and and that means we can we can make some adjustments in the retail or wholesale price if we need to and it also can create it's own demand from it's uniqueness.


Yep. I think we got some exclusivity in that , you know , we got something that nobody else has right now ,

and and that means we can we can make some adjustments in the retail or wholesale price if we need to and it also can create it's own demand from it's uniqueness.

So our big decision then is like how do we do um like   we have to decide on the details and we have to decide on well n not exactly the details , but d do we have uh  What type of casing ? I personally like what you were saying about the plastic with the rubber.


and and that means we can we can make some adjustments in the retail or wholesale price if we need to and it also can create it's own demand from it's uniqueness.

So our big decision then is like how do we do um like   we have to decide on the details and we have to decide on well n not exactly the details , but d do we have uh  What type of casing ? I personally like what you were saying about the plastic with the rubber.


and and that means we can we can make some adjustments in the retail or wholesale price if we need to and it also can create it's own demand from it's uniqueness.

So our big decision then is like how do we do um like   we have to decide on the details and we have to decide on well n not exactly the details , but d do we have uh  What type of casing ? I personally like what you were saying about the plastic with the rubber.

I'm thinking  yeah something like kinda almost like these pens , you know , where there's  you have plastic bits and then it's not really rubber but just kinda like a fused  the plastic with rubber on the outside.


So our big decision then is like how do we do um like   we have to decide on the details and we have to decide on well n not exactly the details , but d do we have uh  What type of casing ? I personally like what you were saying about the plastic with the rubber.

I'm thinking  yeah something like kinda almost like these pens , you know , where there's  you have plastic bits and then it's not really rubber but just kinda like a fused  the plastic with rubber on the outside.

Okay. Just a very thin sorta sheet for a a grip , sorta thing or for


I'm thinking  yeah something like kinda almost like these pens , you know , where there's  you have plastic bits and then it's not really rubber but just kinda like a fused  the plastic with rubber on the outside.

Okay. Just a very thin sorta sheet for a a grip , sorta thing or for

Well no ma yeah maybe a bit more then th is on here but ju just as a kind of an inspiration , these pens I think are are kind of


I'm thinking  yeah something like kinda almost like these pens , you know , where there's  you have plastic bits and then it's not really rubber but just kinda like a fused  the plastic with rubber on the outside.

Okay. Just a very thin sorta sheet for a a grip , sorta thing or for

Well no ma yeah maybe a bit more then th is on here but ju just as a kind of an inspiration , these pens I think are are kind of

Okay. So then if we   d d do we want to do anything more basic with the  uh more advanced with the user interface in terms of do we want to go for  um buttons , or do we want  if we're ditching the scroll wheels do we want to go L_C_D_ ? Do we want to give  do we want to have anything else on it ?


Okay. Just a very thin sorta sheet for a a grip , sorta thing or for

Well no ma yeah maybe a bit more then th is on here but ju just as a kind of an inspiration , these pens I think are are kind of

Okay. So then if we   d d do we want to do anything more basic with the  uh more advanced with the user interface in terms of do we want to go for  um buttons , or do we want  if we're ditching the scroll wheels do we want to go L_C_D_ ? Do we want to give  do we want to have anything else on it ?


Well no ma yeah maybe a bit more then th is on here but ju just as a kind of an inspiration , these pens I think are are kind of

Okay. So then if we   d d do we want to do anything more basic with the  uh more advanced with the user interface in terms of do we want to go for  um buttons , or do we want  if we're ditching the scroll wheels do we want to go L_C_D_ ? Do we want to give  do we want to have anything else on it ?

Or from from my perspective I think L_C_D_ is a mistake because this is a universal remote and all you're doing  I mean it's  you're not gonna get any information back from the television , so the only information you can display on this remote is what channel you  just sent it at last and there's just not a lot of information , you know , there.


Okay. So then if we   d d do we want to do anything more basic with the  uh more advanced with the user interface in terms of do we want to go for  um buttons , or do we want  if we're ditching the scroll wheels do we want to go L_C_D_ ? Do we want to give  do we want to have anything else on it ?

Or from from my perspective I think L_C_D_ is a mistake because this is a universal remote and all you're doing  I mean it's  you're not gonna get any information back from the television , so the only information you can display on this remote is what channel you  just sent it at last and there's just not a lot of information , you know , there.


Or from from my perspective I think L_C_D_ is a mistake because this is a universal remote and all you're doing  I mean it's  you're not gonna get any information back from the television , so the only information you can display on this remote is what channel you  just sent it at last and there's just not a lot of information , you know , there.


So I I don't see any reason for having an L_C_D_ 'cause it's an increased cost. Unless you can think of something interesting to do with it.


So I I don't see any reason for having an L_C_D_ 'cause it's an increased cost. Unless you can think of something interesting to do with it.

Yeah. Yeah right now there's  right now there's nothing coming out of the T_V_ to receive , so you know unless technology changes and information starts coming out of the  a cable box or something there's no s I don't see the ,


So I I don't see any reason for having an L_C_D_ 'cause it's an increased cost. Unless you can think of something interesting to do with it.

Yeah. Yeah right now there's  right now there's nothing coming out of the T_V_ to receive , so you know unless technology changes and information starts coming out of the  a cable box or something there's no s I don't see the ,

I don't see the necessity of an L_C_D_ either. Don't see it.


Yeah. Yeah right now there's  right now there's nothing coming out of the T_V_ to receive , so you know unless technology changes and information starts coming out of the  a cable box or something there's no s I don't see the ,

I don't see the necessity of an L_C_D_ either. Don't see it.

Okay so the question is now I guess we need t to decide on  well y you guys basically have to now go and figure out the details of this thing.


I don't see the necessity of an L_C_D_ either. Don't see it.

Okay so the question is now I guess we need t to decide on  well y you guys basically have to now go and figure out the details of this thing.

So , what we need to know in terms of marketing and uh project management are are there any other questions that we need to answer now before you guys can go and build this ?


I don't see the necessity of an L_C_D_ either. Don't see it.

Okay so the question is now I guess we need t to decide on  well y you guys basically have to now go and figure out the details of this thing.

So , what we need to know in terms of marketing and uh project management are are there any other questions that we need to answer now before you guys can go and build this ?

What what overall things have we not decided on ?


Okay so the question is now I guess we need t to decide on  well y you guys basically have to now go and figure out the details of this thing.

So , what we need to know in terms of marketing and uh project management are are there any other questions that we need to answer now before you guys can go and build this ?

What what overall things have we not decided on ?

Well we have to  I think for me it's still not exactly clear exactly what the inter user interface is gonna be. There's the scroll wheel , in or out ? What do you guys like in the user interface ?


So , what we need to know in terms of marketing and uh project management are are there any other questions that we need to answer now before you guys can go and build this ?

What what overall things have we not decided on ?

Well we have to  I think for me it's still not exactly clear exactly what the inter user interface is gonna be. There's the scroll wheel , in or out ? What do you guys like in the user interface ?

I think maybe in terms of marketing , is that gonna make enough of a difference to justify the cost ?


What what overall things have we not decided on ?

Well we have to  I think for me it's still not exactly clear exactly what the inter user interface is gonna be. There's the scroll wheel , in or out ? What do you guys like in the user interface ?

I think maybe in terms of marketing , is that gonna make enough of a difference to justify the cost ?

Again. Well I think it's it's  the more uniqueness you can bring to the product , the easier it is , I believe , for me to market. Uh again the push-buttons I I see are are everywhere. And so we can go with the same thing , but we're gonna be com competing in a in a broader market than if we go with something unique. You know the other thing I thought about was you know , do we go to something like this ? Make a remote that doesn't look like a remote. It's just another  it's just a an idea , and I don't know


Well we have to  I think for me it's still not exactly clear exactly what the inter user interface is gonna be. There's the scroll wheel , in or out ? What do you guys like in the user interface ?

I think maybe in terms of marketing , is that gonna make enough of a difference to justify the cost ?

Again. Well I think it's it's  the more uniqueness you can bring to the product , the easier it is , I believe , for me to market. Uh again the push-buttons I I see are are everywhere. And so we can go with the same thing , but we're gonna be com competing in a in a broader market than if we go with something unique. You know the other thing I thought about was you know , do we go to something like this ? Make a remote that doesn't look like a remote. It's just another  it's just a an idea , and I don't know

Well I dunno about like the flip-phone idea , because  I think , as far as durability th it's not a big  well maybe when it's closed.


I think maybe in terms of marketing , is that gonna make enough of a difference to justify the cost ?

Again. Well I think it's it's  the more uniqueness you can bring to the product , the easier it is , I believe , for me to market. Uh again the push-buttons I I see are are everywhere. And so we can go with the same thing , but we're gonna be com competing in a in a broader market than if we go with something unique. You know the other thing I thought about was you know , do we go to something like this ? Make a remote that doesn't look like a remote. It's just another  it's just a an idea , and I don't know

Well I dunno about like the flip-phone idea , because  I think , as far as durability th it's not a big  well maybe when it's closed.

I mean what I see  one of the things one of the things you brought up in an earlier presentation is , when you got children ,  their their stuff gets inside the circuitry , they get dirty , they get messy with drinks and stuff.


Again. Well I think it's it's  the more uniqueness you can bring to the product , the easier it is , I believe , for me to market. Uh again the push-buttons I I see are are everywhere. And so we can go with the same thing , but we're gonna be com competing in a in a broader market than if we go with something unique. You know the other thing I thought about was you know , do we go to something like this ? Make a remote that doesn't look like a remote. It's just another  it's just a an idea , and I don't know

Well I dunno about like the flip-phone idea , because  I think , as far as durability th it's not a big  well maybe when it's closed.

I mean what I see  one of the things one of the things you brought up in an earlier presentation is , when you got children ,  their their stuff gets inside the circuitry , they get dirty , they get messy with drinks and stuff.


Well I dunno about like the flip-phone idea , because  I think , as far as durability th it's not a big  well maybe when it's closed.

I mean what I see  one of the things one of the things you brought up in an earlier presentation is , when you got children ,  their their stuff gets inside the circuitry , they get dirty , they get messy with drinks and stuff.


I mean what I see  one of the things one of the things you brought up in an earlier presentation is , when you got children ,  their their stuff gets inside the circuitry , they get dirty , they get messy with drinks and stuff.


And what I keep throwing out there  I just keep throwing out ideas to try to make this thing look or act or in some way identify itself as unique or different.


And what I keep throwing out there  I just keep throwing out ideas to try to make this thing look or act or in some way identify itself as unique or different.

But you guys are the ones that have to c ultimately create the product within cost.


And what I keep throwing out there  I just keep throwing out ideas to try to make this thing look or act or in some way identify itself as unique or different.

But you guys are the ones that have to c ultimately create the product within cost.

Yeah and I guess th th the question th  th that you're being asked right now is whether  is the dock enough of a unique feature to be able to go out and sell that a a as a a very different product , or do we really need the scroll wheel as well ?


But you guys are the ones that have to c ultimately create the product within cost.

Yeah and I guess th th the question th  th that you're being asked right now is whether  is the dock enough of a unique feature to be able to go out and sell that a a as a a very different product , or do we really need the scroll wheel as well ?


But you guys are the ones that have to c ultimately create the product within cost.

Yeah and I guess th th the question th  th that you're being asked right now is whether  is the dock enough of a unique feature to be able to go out and sell that a a as a a very different product , or do we really need the scroll wheel as well ?

Because the scroll wheel comes at quite a cost.


Yeah and I guess th th the question th  th that you're being asked right now is whether  is the dock enough of a unique feature to be able to go out and sell that a a as a a very different product , or do we really need the scroll wheel as well ?

Because the scroll wheel comes at quite a cost.


Because the scroll wheel comes at quite a cost.


Because the scroll wheel comes at quite a cost.

I think you gotta g get into cost effectiveness. I think if you can have the base station with a with a locator , I think those are two very strong features ,


I think you gotta g get into cost effectiveness. I think if you can have the base station with a with a locator , I think those are two very strong features ,


I think you gotta g get into cost effectiveness. I think if you can have the base station with a with a locator , I think those are two very strong features ,

if that's something that can be integrated without a bunch of extra cost.


I think you gotta g get into cost effectiveness. I think if you can have the base station with a with a locator , I think those are two very strong features ,

if that's something that can be integrated without a bunch of extra cost.

The   The locator's gonna require a radio transmitter , which will


if that's something that can be integrated without a bunch of extra cost.

The   The locator's gonna require a radio transmitter , which will


if that's something that can be integrated without a bunch of extra cost.

The   The locator's gonna require a radio transmitter , which will

That's gonna n is that gonna need a better chip as well ?


The   The locator's gonna require a radio transmitter , which will

That's gonna n is that gonna need a better chip as well ?

Um  we're probably gonna have to go with a like a medium chip , s I would imagine.


That's gonna n is that gonna need a better chip as well ?

Um  we're probably gonna have to go with a like a medium chip , s I would imagine.


That's gonna n is that gonna need a better chip as well ?

Um  we're probably gonna have to go with a like a medium chip , s I would imagine.

But we I we will need a receiver , an antenna.


Um  we're probably gonna have to go with a like a medium chip , s I would imagine.

But we I we will need a receiver , an antenna.


But we I we will need a receiver , an antenna.


It should be a really simple signal though so


It should be a really simple signal though so

I know personally that would be a very attractive feature , is to have a uh have a button I can push to find my remote control.


It should be a really simple signal though so

I know personally that would be a very attractive feature , is to have a uh have a button I can push to find my remote control.

And it's presumably gonna need a little speaker in it or something like that as well to beep.


I know personally that would be a very attractive feature , is to have a uh have a button I can push to find my remote control.

And it's presumably gonna need a little speaker in it or something like that as well to beep.

But I guess a little tiny speaker is gonna be quite cheap , it's not gonna need q quality , is it ? It's


And it's presumably gonna need a little speaker in it or something like that as well to beep.

But I guess a little tiny speaker is gonna be quite cheap , it's not gonna need q quality , is it ? It's


But I guess a little tiny speaker is gonna be quite cheap , it's not gonna need q quality , is it ? It's

Or maybe you can like have a a smell-o-rama , you know you push a button and it s puts out a stink.


Or maybe you can like have a a smell-o-rama , you know you push a button and it s puts out a stink.


Or maybe you can like have a a smell-o-rama , you know you push a button and it s puts out a stink.

Makes your living room more fresh as you watch .


Makes your living room more fresh as you watch .


Makes your living room more fresh as you watch .

Um we've got about another ten minutes. I think that uh


Um we've got about another ten minutes. I think that uh


Um we've got about another ten minutes. I think that uh

Mm pr my personal preference is out. I don't think the cost is justified  for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that , and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used.


Um we've got about another ten minutes. I think that uh

Mm pr my personal preference is out. I don't think the cost is justified  for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that , and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used.

Yeah. Yeah I think we have  like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing ,


Mm pr my personal preference is out. I don't think the cost is justified  for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that , and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used.

Yeah. Yeah I think we have  like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing ,


Yeah. Yeah I think we have  like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing ,


For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad.


For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad.

I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be , but I think he does have a point , i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else , when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels. I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that.


For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad.

I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be , but I think he does have a point , i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else , when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels. I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that.

But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_


For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad.

I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be , but I think he does have a point , i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else , when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels. I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that.

But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_

because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so


I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be , but I think he does have a point , i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else , when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels. I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that.

But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_

because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so


But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_

because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so

if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels. Or do you have to go through and you wait for it ?


because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so

if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels. Or do you have to go through and you wait for it ?


if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels. Or do you have to go through and you wait for it ?

You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to


if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels. Or do you have to go through and you wait for it ?

You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to

Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this , where it's maybe you know a digital wheel , right , where it's where it's quantized into you know certain


You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to

Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this , where it's maybe you know a digital wheel , right , where it's where it's quantized into you know certain


Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this , where it's maybe you know a digital wheel , right , where it's where it's quantized into you know certain


That was that was my my intuition of what the scroll wheel would be.


That was that was my my intuition of what the scroll wheel would be.

Ah I see I see what you're talking about now. Okay.


That was that was my my intuition of what the scroll wheel would be.

Ah I see I see what you're talking about now. Okay.

It's just  it's basically  it it's just a f look and feel thing. It has the same exact functionality as two buttons.


Ah I see I see what you're talking about now. Okay.

It's just  it's basically  it it's just a f look and feel thing. It has the same exact functionality as two buttons.

I I think there's  you know that uh there are so many people today that are that are surfing  are television surfers , and I see the scroll as a as a great mechanism for surfing.


It's just  it's basically  it it's just a f look and feel thing. It has the same exact functionality as two buttons.

I I think there's  you know that uh there are so many people today that are that are surfing  are television surfers , and I see the scroll as a as a great mechanism for surfing.

Instead of going button-to-bu you just  j you'd j j j j j j.


I I think there's  you know that uh there are so many people today that are that are surfing  are television surfers , and I see the scroll as a as a great mechanism for surfing.

Instead of going button-to-bu you just  j you'd j j j j j j.


Instead of going button-to-bu you just  j you'd j j j j j j.


Instead of going button-to-bu you just  j you'd j j j j j j.

I really I really think that's a really cool thing for surfing.


I really I really think that's a really cool thing for surfing.


I really I really think that's a really cool thing for surfing.

Now just just so you know though uh you did bring up a point which is very valid , is a lot of T_V_s won't re the T_V_s won't respond exactly the same. Some of them are gonna be kinda slow switching , so you may like queue up like fifteen channel changes , and it'll be like flip , flip , flip.


Now just just so you know though uh you did bring up a point which is very valid , is a lot of T_V_s won't re the T_V_s won't respond exactly the same. Some of them are gonna be kinda slow switching , so you may like queue up like fifteen channel changes , and it'll be like flip , flip , flip.


You could basically make it so that it'll  I mean it's just gonna be sending a signal to the T_V_ yeah the T_V_'s ge so if you send about five flip channels , if you did that it's gonna flip once.


Yeah it just might be frustrating where you can't make it go as fast as you want ,


Yeah it just might be frustrating where you can't make it go as fast as you want ,

but I think once people get used to it  I I do like the idea of the scroll wheel though.


Yeah it just might be frustrating where you can't make it go as fast as you want ,

but I think once people get used to it  I I do like the idea of the scroll wheel though.

And if we're marketing it as a high niche product , then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well , yeah , presumably.


but I think once people get used to it  I I do like the idea of the scroll wheel though.

And if we're marketing it as a high niche product , then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well , yeah , presumably.


And if we're marketing it as a high niche product , then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well , yeah , presumably.


Now the the only thing I I   on the interface side of it , is that  I I I see the dilemma.  But if we have the option of of scrolling  at any particular speed , or the option of jumping direct , okay.


Now the the only thing I I   on the interface side of it , is that  I I I see the dilemma.  But if we have the option of of scrolling  at any particular speed , or the option of jumping direct , okay.

So I can go uh  presuming I have , on my television , something that tells me what channel I'm on , I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two.  I know what  because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So  I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem , 'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. Okay ?


So I can go uh  presuming I have , on my television , something that tells me what channel I'm on , I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two.  I know what  because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So  I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem , 'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. Okay ?

So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system ? You understand what I'm saying ?


So I can go uh  presuming I have , on my television , something that tells me what channel I'm on , I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two.  I know what  because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So  I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem , 'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. Okay ?

So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system ? You understand what I'm saying ?

I think I know what you might be getting at , or or


So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system ? You understand what I'm saying ?

I think I know what you might be getting at , or or

Oh I see so if  maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it , right ? And then it  that basically


So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system ? You understand what I'm saying ?

I think I know what you might be getting at , or or

Oh I see so if  maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it , right ? And then it  that basically

Oh no we could read it from the television.


I think I know what you might be getting at , or or

Oh I see so if  maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it , right ? And then it  that basically

Oh no we could read it from the television.

Well , what about this  what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels ,


Oh I see so if  maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it , right ? And then it  that basically

Oh no we could read it from the television.

Well , what about this  what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels ,


Oh no we could read it from the television.

Well , what about this  what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels ,


Well , what about this  what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels ,

You'd need a display on the th the thing.


You'd need a display on the th the thing.

Why ? It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.


Why ? It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.


Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it though ?


Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it though ?

Well you just  it's one extra button. You say programme start , and then type in


Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it though ?

Well you just  it's one extra button. You say programme start , and then type in

'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type 'em in manually.


Well you just  it's one extra button. You say programme start , and then type in

'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type 'em in manually.


'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type 'em in manually.

So programme start , zero , one , enter , zero , five , enter ,  thirty eight , enter , programme end.


So programme start , zero , one , enter , zero , five , enter ,  thirty eight , enter , programme end.


So programme start , zero , one , enter , zero , five , enter ,  thirty eight , enter , programme end.

and that just basically flips between it and it'll go  it sends out zero , five , and then thirty six , and then zero , one again.


and that just basically flips between it and it'll go  it sends out zero , five , and then thirty six , and then zero , one again.


and that just basically flips between it and it'll go  it sends out zero , five , and then thirty six , and then zero , one again.

And again we have another another great marketing tool.


And again we have another another great marketing tool.

We have about three  we have three or four things here.


And again we have another another great marketing tool.

We have about three  we have three or four things here.

That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be  you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically  come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.


We have about three  we have three or four things here.

That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be  you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically  come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.


That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be  you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically  come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.

I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.


I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.

Might be , but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.


I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.

Might be , but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.

Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes , between going through your favourites list and just hitting up one , up two.


I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.

Might be , but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.

Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes , between going through your favourites list and just hitting up one , up two.

Or we go directional up  we go we go this we go this we go this way for one , we go this way for the other.


Might be , but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.

Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes , between going through your favourites list and just hitting up one , up two.

Or we go directional up  we go we go this we go this we go this way for one , we go this way for the other.


Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes , between going through your favourites list and just hitting up one , up two.

Or we go directional up  we go we go this we go this we go this way for one , we go this way for the other.

No because you wanna be able to go up and down through the channels.


Or we go directional up  we go we go this we go this we go this way for one , we go this way for the other.

No because you wanna be able to go up and down through the channels.

Yeah people are gonna have their favourite sorta , whether they do that or whether they


No because you wanna be able to go up and down through the channels.

Yeah people are gonna have their favourite sorta , whether they do that or whether they


Yeah people are gonna have their favourite sorta , whether they do that or whether they

well then you just have , you have a diff you have a mode switch.


well then you just have , you have a diff you have a mode switch.


well then you just have , you have a diff you have a mode switch.

I think we'll need a  we'll need a mode switch , but then if we have a mode switch we're gonna need some kinda indicator


I think we'll need a  we'll need a mode switch , but then if we have a mode switch we're gonna need some kinda indicator


okay we have five minutes. So right details th  that we've talked about here are that we want a scroll wheel.


okay we have five minutes. So right details th  that we've talked about here are that we want a scroll wheel.

We want  a mode indicator. We want  back-lit buttons. And if we're making back-lit buttons period , do we want that just for the mode indicator or maybe to indicate what button you're pressing at the time , so that you know if it's actually pressed or not. I've seen some remotes do that.


okay we have five minutes. So right details th  that we've talked about here are that we want a scroll wheel.

We want  a mode indicator. We want  back-lit buttons. And if we're making back-lit buttons period , do we want that just for the mode indicator or maybe to indicate what button you're pressing at the time , so that you know if it's actually pressed or not. I've seen some remotes do that.

Okay. Just so you know I think  I mean it was my understanding that before we were gonna stay in the mid-market range. It seems we're kind of approaching a higher-end range.


We want  a mode indicator. We want  back-lit buttons. And if we're making back-lit buttons period , do we want that just for the mode indicator or maybe to indicate what button you're pressing at the time , so that you know if it's actually pressed or not. I've seen some remotes do that.

Okay. Just so you know I think  I mean it was my understanding that before we were gonna stay in the mid-market range. It seems we're kind of approaching a higher-end range.

I wanna make sure everybody's okay with that.


Okay. Just so you know I think  I mean it was my understanding that before we were gonna stay in the mid-market range. It seems we're kind of approaching a higher-end range.

I wanna make sure everybody's okay with that.

Yeah yeah. Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this.


I wanna make sure everybody's okay with that.

Yeah yeah. Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this.

Yeah well we don't have  it's not that we have more money ,


Yeah yeah. Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this.

Yeah well we don't have  it's not that we have more money ,


Yeah well we don't have  it's not that we have more money ,


So I don't know I don't know whether having


So I don't know I don't know whether having

I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So


So I don't know I don't know whether having

I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So

Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to , though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that , and what sorta price can we make it for ?


So I don't know I don't know whether having

I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So

Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to , though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that , and what sorta price can we make it for ?

Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say , okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume , because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.


I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So

Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to , though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that , and what sorta price can we make it for ?

Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say , okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume , because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.

Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting , our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here ,


Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to , though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that , and what sorta price can we make it for ?

Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say , okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume , because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.

Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting , our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here ,


Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say , okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume , because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.

Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting , our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here ,

so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to


Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting , our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here ,

so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to

Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want  to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached , and then we have to take this to the next level.


so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to

Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want  to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached , and then we have to take this to the next level.

But th what's our ballpark as to what we'd be able to sell something like this for ?


so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to

Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want  to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached , and then we have to take this to the next level.

But th what's our ballpark as to what we'd be able to sell something like this for ?

Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now , how much would you pay for


Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want  to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached , and then we have to take this to the next level.

But th what's our ballpark as to what we'd be able to sell something like this for ?

Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now , how much would you pay for


But th what's our ballpark as to what we'd be able to sell something like this for ?

Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now , how much would you pay for

with all these features  how much would you pay if you went to the store , and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote , how much would you pay for that ?


Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now , how much would you pay for

with all these features  how much would you pay if you went to the store , and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote , how much would you pay for that ?

But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.


with all these features  how much would you pay if you went to the store , and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote , how much would you pay for that ?

But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.


with all these features  how much would you pay if you went to the store , and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote , how much would you pay for that ?

But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.

I'm a student , but on the other hand I would think , mm with my Project Manager salary , I would think  yeah I could probably afford this


But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.

I'm a student , but on the other hand I would think , mm with my Project Manager salary , I would think  yeah I could probably afford this


I'm a student , but on the other hand I would think , mm with my Project Manager salary , I would think  yeah I could probably afford this


I'm a student , but on the other hand I would think , mm with my Project Manager salary , I would think  yeah I could probably afford this

uh would I buy it ? Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel , which I think's a really cool idea , that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly , that would be way too much ,


uh would I buy it ? Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel , which I think's a really cool idea , that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly , that would be way too much ,


uh would I buy it ? Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel , which I think's a really cool idea , that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly , that would be way too much ,

but the  I would be happy paying over forty for it , I guess , but not much


but the  I would be happy paying over forty for it , I guess , but not much

Yeah , I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.


but the  I would be happy paying over forty for it , I guess , but not much

Yeah , I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.

'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.


Yeah , I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.

'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.


Yeah , I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.

'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.

Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.


'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.

Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.


Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.


Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.

It's one of the marketing features in this.


It's one of the marketing features in this.

That's why the scroll needs to be really robust.


Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I have received apologies for absence from Jack Sargeant, and I'm very pleased to welcome Vikki Howells, who is substituting for Jack this morning. Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our last evidence session on the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill, and I'm really pleased to welcome back Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; Karen Cornish, who is deputy director of the children and families division; and Emma Gammon, who is the lawyer working on the Bill. So, thank you all for coming. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions because we've got lots of ground that we want to cover, and the first questions are from Janet Finch-Saunders.

Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Deputy Minister. Of those individuals who responded to our written consultation in a personal capacity, nearly 70 per cent do not support this Bill. We also heard a clear message from the parents we met last week who oppose this Bill that, as parents, they understand clearly the difference between child abuse and a light smack from a loving parent. How would you like to respond to that?

Thank you very much, Janet, for that question. I think I'd like to start by saying that child abuse is not the issue that the Bill is trying to address. What the Bill is trying to do is prohibit all forms of physical punishment, and that is in order to protect children's rights and to ensure that children have the same protection from physical punishment as adults. But I do understand that people have different views, and that's why this process has been so important—for us to hear what your views are and what parents' views are. I know that, often, people use different euphemisms really to make light of physical punishment. I've heard expressions used such as a 'light smack' or a 'loving smack' or a 'tap', and really there can be different interpretations of what is a 'light smack', what is a 'loving smack', and that doesn't really cover the issue of the frequency of such actions being taken. But I would say that, however mild it seems to be, the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child recognises that any physical punishment of children, however minor, is incompatible with their human rights, and why should a big person hit a little person? That's been the sort of mantra, really, that has taken me through supporting this legislation—that it just seems wrong to me that there is something in the law that could mean that there could be an excuse for that happening. I believe we shouldn't have anything in the law that defends the physical punishment of children, and I don't think we should be defining acceptable ways of hitting or punishing children, because I think it does send a confused message to children. It says, 'It's okay for me to hit you, but don't you hit anybody else.' I think it causes confusion. So, I'm confident that updating the law will make it much clearer for parents and people working with children—and, of course, I'm sure, as you'll have heard from the evidence you've taken, that people who work with children are overwhelmingly in support of this legislation, and the representative surveys that we've carried out show support for the Bill's principles.


Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Deputy Minister. Of those individuals who responded to our written consultation in a personal capacity, nearly 70 per cent do not support this Bill. We also heard a clear message from the parents we met last week who oppose this Bill that, as parents, they understand clearly the difference between child abuse and a light smack from a loving parent. How would you like to respond to that?

Thank you very much, Janet, for that question. I think I'd like to start by saying that child abuse is not the issue that the Bill is trying to address. What the Bill is trying to do is prohibit all forms of physical punishment, and that is in order to protect children's rights and to ensure that children have the same protection from physical punishment as adults. But I do understand that people have different views, and that's why this process has been so important—for us to hear what your views are and what parents' views are. I know that, often, people use different euphemisms really to make light of physical punishment. I've heard expressions used such as a 'light smack' or a 'loving smack' or a 'tap', and really there can be different interpretations of what is a 'light smack', what is a 'loving smack', and that doesn't really cover the issue of the frequency of such actions being taken. But I would say that, however mild it seems to be, the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child recognises that any physical punishment of children, however minor, is incompatible with their human rights, and why should a big person hit a little person? That's been the sort of mantra, really, that has taken me through supporting this legislation—that it just seems wrong to me that there is something in the law that could mean that there could be an excuse for that happening. I believe we shouldn't have anything in the law that defends the physical punishment of children, and I don't think we should be defining acceptable ways of hitting or punishing children, because I think it does send a confused message to children. It says, 'It's okay for me to hit you, but don't you hit anybody else.' I think it causes confusion. So, I'm confident that updating the law will make it much clearer for parents and people working with children—and, of course, I'm sure, as you'll have heard from the evidence you've taken, that people who work with children are overwhelmingly in support of this legislation, and the representative surveys that we've carried out show support for the Bill's principles.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Last week, during the workshop, a few parents—predominantly all of them, actually—said that they use a gentle tap or smacking as part of a toolkit of ways to deal with challenging behaviour or, sometimes, for the safety of the child or, indeed, to carry out the parenting of a child. How do you intend to work with parents going forward, given the finite resources that social care and social services have? I know from the responses we've received to the consultation that parents themselves who have to parent 24 hours a day, seven days a week, they are really, on the scale of things, very upset about this. How do you intend to try and get your message across to those parents on removing what they consider to be part of their toolkit when raising children? How do you intend to deal with that aspect?


Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Deputy Minister. Of those individuals who responded to our written consultation in a personal capacity, nearly 70 per cent do not support this Bill. We also heard a clear message from the parents we met last week who oppose this Bill that, as parents, they understand clearly the difference between child abuse and a light smack from a loving parent. How would you like to respond to that?

Thank you very much, Janet, for that question. I think I'd like to start by saying that child abuse is not the issue that the Bill is trying to address. What the Bill is trying to do is prohibit all forms of physical punishment, and that is in order to protect children's rights and to ensure that children have the same protection from physical punishment as adults. But I do understand that people have different views, and that's why this process has been so important—for us to hear what your views are and what parents' views are. I know that, often, people use different euphemisms really to make light of physical punishment. I've heard expressions used such as a 'light smack' or a 'loving smack' or a 'tap', and really there can be different interpretations of what is a 'light smack', what is a 'loving smack', and that doesn't really cover the issue of the frequency of such actions being taken. But I would say that, however mild it seems to be, the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child recognises that any physical punishment of children, however minor, is incompatible with their human rights, and why should a big person hit a little person? That's been the sort of mantra, really, that has taken me through supporting this legislation—that it just seems wrong to me that there is something in the law that could mean that there could be an excuse for that happening. I believe we shouldn't have anything in the law that defends the physical punishment of children, and I don't think we should be defining acceptable ways of hitting or punishing children, because I think it does send a confused message to children. It says, 'It's okay for me to hit you, but don't you hit anybody else.' I think it causes confusion. So, I'm confident that updating the law will make it much clearer for parents and people working with children—and, of course, I'm sure, as you'll have heard from the evidence you've taken, that people who work with children are overwhelmingly in support of this legislation, and the representative surveys that we've carried out show support for the Bill's principles.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Last week, during the workshop, a few parents—predominantly all of them, actually—said that they use a gentle tap or smacking as part of a toolkit of ways to deal with challenging behaviour or, sometimes, for the safety of the child or, indeed, to carry out the parenting of a child. How do you intend to work with parents going forward, given the finite resources that social care and social services have? I know from the responses we've received to the consultation that parents themselves who have to parent 24 hours a day, seven days a week, they are really, on the scale of things, very upset about this. How do you intend to try and get your message across to those parents on removing what they consider to be part of their toolkit when raising children? How do you intend to deal with that aspect?

Well, first of all, I want to say, as I've said in most evidence sessions, that I completely accept that bringing up children is hard. It's very difficult; many of us have done it and we know how tough it can be. But we don't think that there is any place for physical punishment in bringing up children. There's a whole range of other ways that you can help parents bring up children, and advice you can give them of different methods to use. But, the clear message of this Bill is that we don't want any physical punishment; we don't think it's the right thing to do, and we believe that we are supported by many people in that view.