y y you gotta  you gotta do this  you  you 're gonna want to do this very quickly

or else you 'll spend all your time sort of searching through very  complex data structures

Right. You 'd need a p sort of a paradigm for how to do it. But an example would be " find all the cases in which Adam started to talk while Andreas was talking and his pitch was rising , Andreas 's pitch ". That kind of thing.


or else you 'll spend all your time sort of searching through very  complex data structures

Right. You 'd need a p sort of a paradigm for how to do it. But an example would be " find all the cases in which Adam started to talk while Andreas was talking and his pitch was rising , Andreas 's pitch ". That kind of thing.

Right. I mean , that 's gonna be  Is the rising pitch a  feature , or is it gonna be in the same file ?


or else you 'll spend all your time sort of searching through very  complex data structures

Right. You 'd need a p sort of a paradigm for how to do it. But an example would be " find all the cases in which Adam started to talk while Andreas was talking and his pitch was rising , Andreas 's pitch ". That kind of thing.

Right. I mean , that 's gonna be  Is the rising pitch a  feature , or is it gonna be in the same file ?

Well , the rising pitch will never be  hand - annotated. So the  all the prosodic features are going to be automatically


Right. You 'd need a p sort of a paradigm for how to do it. But an example would be " find all the cases in which Adam started to talk while Andreas was talking and his pitch was rising , Andreas 's pitch ". That kind of thing.

Right. I mean , that 's gonna be  Is the rising pitch a  feature , or is it gonna be in the same file ?

Well , the rising pitch will never be  hand - annotated. So the  all the prosodic features are going to be automatically

But the  I mean , that 's gonna be hard regardless ,


Right. I mean , that 's gonna be  Is the rising pitch a  feature , or is it gonna be in the same file ?

Well , the rising pitch will never be  hand - annotated. So the  all the prosodic features are going to be automatically

But the  I mean , that 's gonna be hard regardless ,


Well , the rising pitch will never be  hand - annotated. So the  all the prosodic features are going to be automatically

But the  I mean , that 's gonna be hard regardless ,

right ? Because you 're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches.


But the  I mean , that 's gonna be hard regardless ,

right ? Because you 're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches.


right ? Because you 're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches.

So  Right. So normally what we would do is we would say " what do we wanna assign rising pitch to ? " Are we gonna assign it to words ? Are we gonna just assign it to sort of  when it 's rising we have a begin - end rise representation ? But suppose we dump out this file and we say , uh , for every word we just classify it as , w you know , rise or fall or neither ?


right ? Because you 're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches.

So  Right. So normally what we would do is we would say " what do we wanna assign rising pitch to ? " Are we gonna assign it to words ? Are we gonna just assign it to sort of  when it 's rising we have a begin - end rise representation ? But suppose we dump out this file and we say , uh , for every word we just classify it as , w you know , rise or fall or neither ?

OK. Well , in that case you would add that to this  format


So  Right. So normally what we would do is we would say " what do we wanna assign rising pitch to ? " Are we gonna assign it to words ? Are we gonna just assign it to sort of  when it 's rising we have a begin - end rise representation ? But suppose we dump out this file and we say , uh , for every word we just classify it as , w you know , rise or fall or neither ?

OK. Well , in that case you would add that to this  format


So  Right. So normally what we would do is we would say " what do we wanna assign rising pitch to ? " Are we gonna assign it to words ? Are we gonna just assign it to sort of  when it 's rising we have a begin - end rise representation ? But suppose we dump out this file and we say , uh , for every word we just classify it as , w you know , rise or fall or neither ?

OK. Well , in that case you would add that to this  format

So we would basically be sort of , um , taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file ,


OK. Well , in that case you would add that to this  format

So we would basically be sort of , um , taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file ,


So we would basically be sort of , um , taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file ,


So we would basically be sort of , um , taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file ,

You want sort of a grep that 's  that works at the structural  on the structural representation.


You want sort of a grep that 's  that works at the structural  on the structural representation.


You want sort of a grep that 's  that works at the structural  on the structural representation.

You have that. There 's a  standard again in XML , specifically for searching XML documents  structured X - XML documents , where you can specify both the content and the structural position.


You want sort of a grep that 's  that works at the structural  on the structural representation.

You have that. There 's a  standard again in XML , specifically for searching XML documents  structured X - XML documents , where you can specify both the content and the structural position.

Yeah , but it 's  it 's not clear that that 's  That 's relative to the structure of the XML document ,


You have that. There 's a  standard again in XML , specifically for searching XML documents  structured X - XML documents , where you can specify both the content and the structural position.

Yeah , but it 's  it 's not clear that that 's  That 's relative to the structure of the XML document ,


You have that. There 's a  standard again in XML , specifically for searching XML documents  structured X - XML documents , where you can specify both the content and the structural position.

Yeah , but it 's  it 's not clear that that 's  That 's relative to the structure of the XML document ,

not to the structure of what you 're representing in the document.


Yeah , but it 's  it 's not clear that that 's  That 's relative to the structure of the XML document ,

not to the structure of what you 're representing in the document.

You use it as a tool. You use it as a tool , not an end - user. It 's not an end - user thing.


not to the structure of what you 're representing in the document.

You use it as a tool. You use it as a tool , not an end - user. It 's not an end - user thing.


not to the structure of what you 're representing in the document.

You use it as a tool. You use it as a tool , not an end - user. It 's not an end - user thing.

It 's  it 's  you would use that to build your tool to do that sort of search.


You use it as a tool. You use it as a tool , not an end - user. It 's not an end - user thing.

It 's  it 's  you would use that to build your tool to do that sort of search.

Right. Be Because here you 're specifying a lattice.


It 's  it 's  you would use that to build your tool to do that sort of search.

Right. Be Because here you 're specifying a lattice.


It 's  it 's  you would use that to build your tool to do that sort of search.

Right. Be Because here you 're specifying a lattice.

So the underlying  that 's the underlying data structure. And you want to be able to search in that lattice.


Right. Be Because here you 're specifying a lattice.

So the underlying  that 's the underlying data structure. And you want to be able to search in that lattice.


So the underlying  that 's the underlying data structure. And you want to be able to search in that lattice.


So the underlying  that 's the underlying data structure. And you want to be able to search in that lattice.

That 's different from searching through the text.


That 's different from searching through the text.

But it seems like as long as the features that


That 's different from searching through the text.

But it seems like as long as the features that

Well , no , no , no. The whole point is that the text and the lattice are isomorphic. They  represent each other  completely.


But it seems like as long as the features that

Well , no , no , no. The whole point is that the text and the lattice are isomorphic. They  represent each other  completely.


Well , no , no , no. The whole point is that the text and the lattice are isomorphic. They  represent each other  completely.

That 's true if the features from your acoustics or whatever that are not explicitly in this are at the level of these types.


That 's true if the features from your acoustics or whatever that are not explicitly in this are at the level of these types.


That 's true if the features from your acoustics or whatever that are not explicitly in this are at the level of these types.

Yeah , but that 's gonna be the trouble no matter what. Right ? No matter what format you choose , you 're gonna have the trou you 're gonna have the difficulty of relating the  the frame - level features


Yeah , but that 's gonna be the trouble no matter what. Right ? No matter what format you choose , you 're gonna have the trou you 're gonna have the difficulty of relating the  the frame - level features

That 's right. That 's true. That 's why I was trying to figure out what 's the best format for this representation.


That 's right. That 's true. That 's why I was trying to figure out what 's the best format for this representation.


You know , it  Or another example was , you know , uh , where in the language  where in the word sequence are people interrupting ? So , I guess that one 's actually easier.


You know , it  Or another example was , you know , uh , where in the language  where in the word sequence are people interrupting ? So , I guess that one 's actually easier.

What about  what about , um , the idea of using a relational database to , uh , store the information from the XML ? So you would have  XML basically would  Uh , you  you could use the XML to put the data in , and then when you get data out , you put it back in XML. So use XML as sort of the  the transfer format ,


You know , it  Or another example was , you know , uh , where in the language  where in the word sequence are people interrupting ? So , I guess that one 's actually easier.

What about  what about , um , the idea of using a relational database to , uh , store the information from the XML ? So you would have  XML basically would  Uh , you  you could use the XML to put the data in , and then when you get data out , you put it back in XML. So use XML as sort of the  the transfer format ,

uh , but then you store the data in the database , which allows you to do all kinds of  good search things in there.


What about  what about , um , the idea of using a relational database to , uh , store the information from the XML ? So you would have  XML basically would  Uh , you  you could use the XML to put the data in , and then when you get data out , you put it back in XML. So use XML as sort of the  the transfer format ,

uh , but then you store the data in the database , which allows you to do all kinds of  good search things in there.

The , uh  One of the things that ATLAS is doing is they 're trying to define an API which is independent of the back store ,


uh , but then you store the data in the database , which allows you to do all kinds of  good search things in there.

The , uh  One of the things that ATLAS is doing is they 're trying to define an API which is independent of the back store ,


uh , but then you store the data in the database , which allows you to do all kinds of  good search things in there.

The , uh  One of the things that ATLAS is doing is they 're trying to define an API which is independent of the back store ,

so that , uh , you could define a single API and the  the storage could be flat XML files or a database.


The , uh  One of the things that ATLAS is doing is they 're trying to define an API which is independent of the back store ,

so that , uh , you could define a single API and the  the storage could be flat XML files or a database.


so that , uh , you could define a single API and the  the storage could be flat XML files or a database.

My opinion on that is for the s sort of stuff that we 're doing ,  I suspect it 's overkill to do a full relational database , that , um , just a flat file and , uh , search tools I bet will be enough.


My opinion on that is for the s sort of stuff that we 're doing ,  I suspect it 's overkill to do a full relational database , that , um , just a flat file and , uh , search tools I bet will be enough.

But that 's the advantage of ATLAS , is that if we actually take  decide to go that route completely and we program to their API , then if we wanted to add a database later it would be pretty easy.


But that 's the advantage of ATLAS , is that if we actually take  decide to go that route completely and we program to their API , then if we wanted to add a database later it would be pretty easy.

It seems like the kind of thing you 'd do if  I don't know , if people start adding all kinds of s bells and whistles to the data. And so that might be  I mean , it 'd be good for us to know  to use a format where we know we can easily , um , input that to some database if other people are using it.


It seems like the kind of thing you 'd do if  I don't know , if people start adding all kinds of s bells and whistles to the data. And so that might be  I mean , it 'd be good for us to know  to use a format where we know we can easily , um , input that to some database if other people are using it.


It seems like the kind of thing you 'd do if  I don't know , if people start adding all kinds of s bells and whistles to the data. And so that might be  I mean , it 'd be good for us to know  to use a format where we know we can easily , um , input that to some database if other people are using it.

I guess I 'm just a little hesitant to try to go whole hog on sort of the  the whole framework that  that NIST is talking about , with ATLAS and a database and all that sort of stuff ,


I guess I 'm just a little hesitant to try to go whole hog on sort of the  the whole framework that  that NIST is talking about , with ATLAS and a database and all that sort of stuff ,


I guess I 'm just a little hesitant to try to go whole hog on sort of the  the whole framework that  that NIST is talking about , with ATLAS and a database and all that sort of stuff ,

cuz it 's a big learning curve , just to get going.


cuz it 's a big learning curve , just to get going.


cuz it 's a big learning curve , just to get going.

Whereas if we just do a flat file format , sure , it may not be as efficient but everyone can program in Perl and  and use it.


Whereas if we just do a flat file format , sure , it may not be as efficient but everyone can program in Perl and  and use it.


I  I 'm still , um ,  not convinced that you can do much at all on the text  on the flat file that  that  you know , the text representation. e Because the text representation is gonna be , uh , not reflecting the structure of  of your words and annotations. It 's just  it 's


I  I 'm still , um ,  not convinced that you can do much at all on the text  on the flat file that  that  you know , the text representation. e Because the text representation is gonna be , uh , not reflecting the structure of  of your words and annotations. It 's just  it 's

Well , if it 's not representing it , then how do you recover it ? Of course it 's representing it.


I  I 'm still , um ,  not convinced that you can do much at all on the text  on the flat file that  that  you know , the text representation. e Because the text representation is gonna be , uh , not reflecting the structure of  of your words and annotations. It 's just  it 's

Well , if it 's not representing it , then how do you recover it ? Of course it 's representing it.

No. You  you have to  what you have to do is you have to basically


Well , if it 's not representing it , then how do you recover it ? Of course it 's representing it.

No. You  you have to  what you have to do is you have to basically

Y yeah. You can use Perl to read it in and construct a internal representation that is essentially a lattice. But , the  and then


No. You  you have to  what you have to do is you have to basically

Y yeah. You can use Perl to read it in and construct a internal representation that is essentially a lattice. But , the  and then


Y yeah. You can use Perl to read it in and construct a internal representation that is essentially a lattice. But , the  and then


But that 's what you 'll have to do. Bec - be


But that 's what you 'll have to do. Bec - be

For Perl  if you want to just do Perl. If you wanted to use the structured XML query language , that 's a different thing. And it 's a set of tools  that let you specify given the D - DDT  DTD of the document , um , what sorts of structural searches you want to do. So you want to say that , you know , you 're looking for , um , a tag within a tag within a particular tag that has this particular text in it , um , and , uh , refers to a particular value. And so the point isn't that an end - user , who is looking for a query like you specified , wouldn't program it in this language. What you would do is , someone would build a tool that used that as a library. So that they  so that you wouldn't have to construct the internal representations yourself.


But that 's what you 'll have to do. Bec - be

For Perl  if you want to just do Perl. If you wanted to use the structured XML query language , that 's a different thing. And it 's a set of tools  that let you specify given the D - DDT  DTD of the document , um , what sorts of structural searches you want to do. So you want to say that , you know , you 're looking for , um , a tag within a tag within a particular tag that has this particular text in it , um , and , uh , refers to a particular value. And so the point isn't that an end - user , who is looking for a query like you specified , wouldn't program it in this language. What you would do is , someone would build a tool that used that as a library. So that they  so that you wouldn't have to construct the internal representations yourself.

Is a  See , I think the kinds of questions , at least in the next  to the end of this year , are  there may be a lot of different ones , but they 'll all have a similar nature. They 'll be looking at either a word - level prosodic , uh , an  a value ,


For Perl  if you want to just do Perl. If you wanted to use the structured XML query language , that 's a different thing. And it 's a set of tools  that let you specify given the D - DDT  DTD of the document , um , what sorts of structural searches you want to do. So you want to say that , you know , you 're looking for , um , a tag within a tag within a particular tag that has this particular text in it , um , and , uh , refers to a particular value. And so the point isn't that an end - user , who is looking for a query like you specified , wouldn't program it in this language. What you would do is , someone would build a tool that used that as a library. So that they  so that you wouldn't have to construct the internal representations yourself.

Is a  See , I think the kinds of questions , at least in the next  to the end of this year , are  there may be a lot of different ones , but they 'll all have a similar nature. They 'll be looking at either a word - level prosodic , uh , an  a value ,

like a continuous value , like the slope of something. But you know , we 'll do something where we  some kind of data reduction where the prosodic features are sort o uh , either at the word - level or at the segment - level ,


Is a  See , I think the kinds of questions , at least in the next  to the end of this year , are  there may be a lot of different ones , but they 'll all have a similar nature. They 'll be looking at either a word - level prosodic , uh , an  a value ,

like a continuous value , like the slope of something. But you know , we 'll do something where we  some kind of data reduction where the prosodic features are sort o uh , either at the word - level or at the segment - level ,


like a continuous value , like the slope of something. But you know , we 'll do something where we  some kind of data reduction where the prosodic features are sort o uh , either at the word - level or at the segment - level ,

or  or something like that. They 're not gonna be at the phone - level and they 're no not gonna be at the frame - level when we get done with sort of giving them simpler shapes and things. And so the main thing is just being able  Well , I guess , the two goals. Um , one that Chuck mentioned is starting out with something that we don't have to start over , that we don't have to throw away if other people want to extend it for other kinds of questions ,


or  or something like that. They 're not gonna be at the phone - level and they 're no not gonna be at the frame - level when we get done with sort of giving them simpler shapes and things. And so the main thing is just being able  Well , I guess , the two goals. Um , one that Chuck mentioned is starting out with something that we don't have to start over , that we don't have to throw away if other people want to extend it for other kinds of questions ,

and being able to at least get enough , uh , information out on  where we condition the location of features on information that 's in the kind of file that you  put up there. And that would  that would do it ,


or  or something like that. They 're not gonna be at the phone - level and they 're no not gonna be at the frame - level when we get done with sort of giving them simpler shapes and things. And so the main thing is just being able  Well , I guess , the two goals. Um , one that Chuck mentioned is starting out with something that we don't have to start over , that we don't have to throw away if other people want to extend it for other kinds of questions ,

and being able to at least get enough , uh , information out on  where we condition the location of features on information that 's in the kind of file that you  put up there. And that would  that would do it ,

Yeah. I think that there are quick and dirty solutions ,


and being able to at least get enough , uh , information out on  where we condition the location of features on information that 's in the kind of file that you  put up there. And that would  that would do it ,

Yeah. I think that there are quick and dirty solutions ,


and being able to at least get enough , uh , information out on  where we condition the location of features on information that 's in the kind of file that you  put up there. And that would  that would do it ,

Yeah. I think that there are quick and dirty solutions ,

and then there are long - term , big - infrastructure solutions. And so  we want to try to pick something that lets us do a little bit of both.


Yeah. I think that there are quick and dirty solutions ,

and then there are long - term , big - infrastructure solutions. And so  we want to try to pick something that lets us do a little bit of both.

In the between , right. And especially that the representation doesn't have to be thrown away ,


and then there are long - term , big - infrastructure solutions. And so  we want to try to pick something that lets us do a little bit of both.

In the between , right. And especially that the representation doesn't have to be thrown away ,


In the between , right. And especially that the representation doesn't have to be thrown away ,

And so it seems to me that  I mean , I have to look at it again to see whether it can really do what we want , but if we use the ATLAS external file representation , um , it seems like it 's rich enough that you could do quick tools just as I said in Perl , and then later on if we choose to go up the learning curve , we can use the whole ATLAS inter infrastructure ,


And so it seems to me that  I mean , I have to look at it again to see whether it can really do what we want , but if we use the ATLAS external file representation , um , it seems like it 's rich enough that you could do quick tools just as I said in Perl , and then later on if we choose to go up the learning curve , we can use the whole ATLAS inter infrastructure ,


And so it seems to me that  I mean , I have to look at it again to see whether it can really do what we want , but if we use the ATLAS external file representation , um , it seems like it 's rich enough that you could do quick tools just as I said in Perl , and then later on if we choose to go up the learning curve , we can use the whole ATLAS inter infrastructure ,

I  I don't  So if  if you would l look at that and let us know what you think.


I  I don't  So if  if you would l look at that and let us know what you think.


I  I don't  So if  if you would l look at that and let us know what you think.

I mean , I think we 're sort of guinea pigs , cuz I  I want to get the prosody work done but I don't want to waste time , you know , getting the


I mean , I think we 're sort of guinea pigs , cuz I  I want to get the prosody work done but I don't want to waste time , you know , getting the


Well , I wouldn't wait for the formats , because anything you pick we 'll be able to translate to another form.


Well , I wouldn't wait for the formats , because anything you pick we 'll be able to translate to another form.

Well  Ma well , maybe you should actually look at it yourself too to get a sense of what it is you 'll  you 'll be dealing with ,


Well , I wouldn't wait for the formats , because anything you pick we 'll be able to translate to another form.

Well  Ma well , maybe you should actually look at it yourself too to get a sense of what it is you 'll  you 'll be dealing with ,

because , um , you know , Adam might have one opinion but you might have another , so


Well  Ma well , maybe you should actually look at it yourself too to get a sense of what it is you 'll  you 'll be dealing with ,

because , um , you know , Adam might have one opinion but you might have another , so


because , um , you know , Adam might have one opinion but you might have another , so


because , um , you know , Adam might have one opinion but you might have another , so

I think the more eyes look at this the better.


I think the more eyes look at this the better.

Especially if there 's , e um  you know , if someone can help with at least the  the setup of the right


Especially if there 's , e um  you know , if someone can help with at least the  the setup of the right


the right representation , then , i you know , I hope it won't  We don't actually need the whole full - blown thing to be ready ,


the right representation , then , i you know , I hope it won't  We don't actually need the whole full - blown thing to be ready ,

so. Um , so maybe if you guys can look at it and sort of see what ,


so. Um , so maybe if you guys can look at it and sort of see what ,


so. Um , so maybe if you guys can look at it and sort of see what ,

um  I think we 're  we 're   we 're actually just


um  I think we 're  we 're   we 're actually just


wrapping up , but , um  Yeah , sorry , it 's a uh short meeting , but , um  Well , I don't know. Is there anything else , like  I mean that helps me a lot ,


wrapping up , but , um  Yeah , sorry , it 's a uh short meeting , but , um  Well , I don't know. Is there anything else , like  I mean that helps me a lot ,

Well , I think the other thing we might want to look at is alternatives to P - file.


wrapping up , but , um  Yeah , sorry , it 's a uh short meeting , but , um  Well , I don't know. Is there anything else , like  I mean that helps me a lot ,

Well , I think the other thing we might want to look at is alternatives to P - file.

I mean , th the reason I like P - file is I 'm already familiar with it , we have expertise here , and so if we pick something else , there 's the learning - curve problem. But , I mean , it is just something we developed at ICSI.


Well , I think the other thing we might want to look at is alternatives to P - file.

I mean , th the reason I like P - file is I 'm already familiar with it , we have expertise here , and so if we pick something else , there 's the learning - curve problem. But , I mean , it is just something we developed at ICSI.


I mean , th the reason I like P - file is I 'm already familiar with it , we have expertise here , and so if we pick something else , there 's the learning - curve problem. But , I mean , it is just something we developed at ICSI.


There used to be a problem that they get too large ,


There used to be a problem that they get too large ,

a bunch of libraries , P - file utilities.


There used to be a problem that they get too large ,

a bunch of libraries , P - file utilities.

and so  basically the  uh the filesystem wouldn't


There used to be a problem that they get too large ,

a bunch of libraries , P - file utilities.

and so  basically the  uh the filesystem wouldn't

Well , that 's gonna be a problem no matter what. You have the two - gigabyte limit on the filesystem size. And we definitely hit that with Broadcast News.


a bunch of libraries , P - file utilities.

and so  basically the  uh the filesystem wouldn't

Well , that 's gonna be a problem no matter what. You have the two - gigabyte limit on the filesystem size. And we definitely hit that with Broadcast News.

Maybe you could extend the API to , uh , support , uh , like splitting up , you know , conceptually one file into smaller files on disk so that you can essentially , you know , have arbitrarily long f


and so  basically the  uh the filesystem wouldn't

Well , that 's gonna be a problem no matter what. You have the two - gigabyte limit on the filesystem size. And we definitely hit that with Broadcast News.

Maybe you could extend the API to , uh , support , uh , like splitting up , you know , conceptually one file into smaller files on disk so that you can essentially , you know , have arbitrarily long f


Well , that 's gonna be a problem no matter what. You have the two - gigabyte limit on the filesystem size. And we definitely hit that with Broadcast News.

Maybe you could extend the API to , uh , support , uh , like splitting up , you know , conceptually one file into smaller files on disk so that you can essentially , you know , have arbitrarily long f


Maybe you could extend the API to , uh , support , uh , like splitting up , you know , conceptually one file into smaller files on disk so that you can essentially , you know , have arbitrarily long f

So that we didn't do it at the API - level. We did it at the t tool - level. That  that  most  many of them can s you can specify several P - files and they 'll just be done sequentially.


So that we didn't do it at the API - level. We did it at the t tool - level. That  that  most  many of them can s you can specify several P - files and they 'll just be done sequentially.


So that we didn't do it at the API - level. We did it at the t tool - level. That  that  most  many of them can s you can specify several P - files and they 'll just be done sequentially.

So , I guess , yeah , if  if you and Don can  if you can show him the P - file stuff and see.


So , I guess , yeah , if  if you and Don can  if you can show him the P - file stuff and see.


I mean , if you do " man P - file " or " apropos P - file " , you 'll see a lot.


I mean , if you do " man P - file " or " apropos P - file " , you 'll see a lot.

I 've used the P - file , I think. I 've looked at it at least , briefly , I think when we were doing s something.


I 've used the P - file , I think. I 've looked at it at least , briefly , I think when we were doing s something.


I didn't de I didn't develop it. You know , it was  I think it was Dave Johnson. So it 's all part of the Quicknet library. It has all the utilities for it.


I didn't de I didn't develop it. You know , it was  I think it was Dave Johnson. So it 's all part of the Quicknet library. It has all the utilities for it.

No , P - files were around way before Quicknet. P - files were  were around when  w with , um ,  RAP.


No , P - files were around way before Quicknet. P - files were  were around when  w with , um ,  RAP.


I don't remember what the " P " is , though.


I don't remember what the " P " is , though.

But there are ni they 're  The  Quicknet library has a bunch of things in it to handle P - files ,


But there are ni they 're  The  Quicknet library has a bunch of things in it to handle P - files ,


But there are ni they 're  The  Quicknet library has a bunch of things in it to handle P - files ,

And that isn't really , I guess , as important as the  the main  I don't know what you call it , the  the main sort of word - level


And that isn't really , I guess , as important as the  the main  I don't know what you call it , the  the main sort of word - level


And that isn't really , I guess , as important as the  the main  I don't know what you call it , the  the main sort of word - level

Probably stands for " Phil ". Phil Kohn.


Probably stands for " Phil ". Phil Kohn.


Probably stands for " Phil ". Phil Kohn.

Huh. OK. Well , that 's really useful. I mean , this is exactly the kind of thing that I wanted to settle. Um , so


Huh. OK. Well , that 's really useful. I mean , this is exactly the kind of thing that I wanted to settle. Um , so

Yeah , I 've been meaning to look at the ATLAS stuff again anyway.


Yeah , I 've been meaning to look at the ATLAS stuff again anyway.

Yeah. I guess it 's also sort of a political deci I mean , if  if you feel like that 's a community that would be good to tie into anyway , then it 's  sounds like it 's worth doing.


Yeah. I guess it 's also sort of a political deci I mean , if  if you feel like that 's a community that would be good to tie into anyway , then it 's  sounds like it 's worth doing.


Yeah. I guess it 's also sort of a political deci I mean , if  if you feel like that 's a community that would be good to tie into anyway , then it 's  sounds like it 's worth doing.

And , w uh , as I said , I  what I did with this stuff  I based it on theirs. It 's just they hadn't actually come up with an external format yet. So now that they have come up with a format , it doesn't  it seems pretty reasonable to use it.


And , w uh , as I said , I  what I did with this stuff  I based it on theirs. It 's just they hadn't actually come up with an external format yet. So now that they have come up with a format , it doesn't  it seems pretty reasonable to use it.


There 's one level  there 's one more level of indirection and I 'm just blanking on exactly how it works. I gotta look at it again.


There 's one level  there 's one more level of indirection and I 'm just blanking on exactly how it works. I gotta look at it again.

I mean , we can start with , um , I guess , this input from Dave 's , which you had printed out , the channelized input. Cuz he has all of the channels , you know , with the channels in the tag and stuff like that.


I mean , we can start with , um , I guess , this input from Dave 's , which you had printed out , the channelized input. Cuz he has all of the channels , you know , with the channels in the tag and stuff like that.


um  Yeah. And so then it would just be a matter of getting  making sure to handle the annotations that are , you know , not at the word - level and , um , t to import the


um  Yeah. And so then it would just be a matter of getting  making sure to handle the annotations that are , you know , not at the word - level and , um , t to import the

Where are those annotations coming from ?


um  Yeah. And so then it would just be a matter of getting  making sure to handle the annotations that are , you know , not at the word - level and , um , t to import the

Where are those annotations coming from ?

Well , right now , I g Jane would   would


Where are those annotations coming from ?

Well , right now , I g Jane would   would


Well , right now , I g Jane would   would

Are you talking about the overlap a annotations ?


Are you talking about the overlap a annotations ?

Yeah , any kind of annotation  that , like , isn't already there. Uh , you know , anything you can envision.


Are you talking about the overlap a annotations ?

Yeah , any kind of annotation  that , like , isn't already there. Uh , you know , anything you can envision.

Yeah. So what I was imagining was  um , so Dave says we can have unlimited numbers of green ribbons. And so put , uh , a  a green ribbon on for an overlap code. And since we w we  I  I think it 's important to remain flexible regarding the time bins for now. And so it 's nice to have  However , you know , you want to have it , uh , time time uh , located in the discourse. So , um , if we  if we tie the overlap code to the first word in the overlap , then you 'll have a time - marking. It won't  it 'll be independent of the time bins , however these e evolve , shrink , or whatever , increase , or  Also , you could have different time bins for different purposes. And having it tied to the first word in an overlap segment is unique , uh , you know , anchored , clear. And it would just end up on a separate ribbon.


Yeah , any kind of annotation  that , like , isn't already there. Uh , you know , anything you can envision.

Yeah. So what I was imagining was  um , so Dave says we can have unlimited numbers of green ribbons. And so put , uh , a  a green ribbon on for an overlap code. And since we w we  I  I think it 's important to remain flexible regarding the time bins for now. And so it 's nice to have  However , you know , you want to have it , uh , time time uh , located in the discourse. So , um , if we  if we tie the overlap code to the first word in the overlap , then you 'll have a time - marking. It won't  it 'll be independent of the time bins , however these e evolve , shrink , or whatever , increase , or  Also , you could have different time bins for different purposes. And having it tied to the first word in an overlap segment is unique , uh , you know , anchored , clear. And it would just end up on a separate ribbon.

So the overlap coding is gonna be easy with respect to that. You look puzzled.


Yeah. So what I was imagining was  um , so Dave says we can have unlimited numbers of green ribbons. And so put , uh , a  a green ribbon on for an overlap code. And since we w we  I  I think it 's important to remain flexible regarding the time bins for now. And so it 's nice to have  However , you know , you want to have it , uh , time time uh , located in the discourse. So , um , if we  if we tie the overlap code to the first word in the overlap , then you 'll have a time - marking. It won't  it 'll be independent of the time bins , however these e evolve , shrink , or whatever , increase , or  Also , you could have different time bins for different purposes. And having it tied to the first word in an overlap segment is unique , uh , you know , anchored , clear. And it would just end up on a separate ribbon.

So the overlap coding is gonna be easy with respect to that. You look puzzled.

I  I just  I don't quite understand what these things are.


So the overlap coding is gonna be easy with respect to that. You look puzzled.

I  I just  I don't quite understand what these things are.


I  I just  I don't quite understand what these things are.


Well , we don't have to go into the codes.


I mean , that  not for the topic of this meeting.


I mean , that  not for the topic of this meeting.

But let me just  No. W the idea is just to have a separate green ribbon , you know , and  and  and let 's say that this is a time bin. There 's a word here. This is the first word of an overlapping segment of any length , overlapping with any other , uh , word  uh , i segment of any length. And , um , then you can indicate that this here was perhaps a ch a backchannel , or you can say that it was , um , a usurping of the turn , or you can  you know , any  any number of categories. But the fact is , you have it time - tagged in a way that 's independent of the , uh , sp particular time bin that the word ends up in. If it 's a large unit or a small unit , or


I mean , that  not for the topic of this meeting.

But let me just  No. W the idea is just to have a separate green ribbon , you know , and  and  and let 's say that this is a time bin. There 's a word here. This is the first word of an overlapping segment of any length , overlapping with any other , uh , word  uh , i segment of any length. And , um , then you can indicate that this here was perhaps a ch a backchannel , or you can say that it was , um , a usurping of the turn , or you can  you know , any  any number of categories. But the fact is , you have it time - tagged in a way that 's independent of the , uh , sp particular time bin that the word ends up in. If it 's a large unit or a small unit , or

we sh change the boundaries of the units , it 's still unique and  and , uh , fits with the format ,


But let me just  No. W the idea is just to have a separate green ribbon , you know , and  and  and let 's say that this is a time bin. There 's a word here. This is the first word of an overlapping segment of any length , overlapping with any other , uh , word  uh , i segment of any length. And , um , then you can indicate that this here was perhaps a ch a backchannel , or you can say that it was , um , a usurping of the turn , or you can  you know , any  any number of categories. But the fact is , you have it time - tagged in a way that 's independent of the , uh , sp particular time bin that the word ends up in. If it 's a large unit or a small unit , or

we sh change the boundaries of the units , it 's still unique and  and , uh , fits with the format ,


we sh change the boundaries of the units , it 's still unique and  and , uh , fits with the format ,


we sh change the boundaries of the units , it 's still unique and  and , uh , fits with the format ,

Um , it would be nice  um , eh , gr this is sort of r regarding  uh , uh it 's related but not directly germane to the topic of discussion , but , when it comes to annotations , um , you often find yourself in the situation where you have  different annotations  of the same , say , word sequence. OK ?


Um , it would be nice  um , eh , gr this is sort of r regarding  uh , uh it 's related but not directly germane to the topic of discussion , but , when it comes to annotations , um , you often find yourself in the situation where you have  different annotations  of the same , say , word sequence. OK ?


Um , it would be nice  um , eh , gr this is sort of r regarding  uh , uh it 's related but not directly germane to the topic of discussion , but , when it comes to annotations , um , you often find yourself in the situation where you have  different annotations  of the same , say , word sequence. OK ?

And sometimes the word sequences even differ slightly because they were edited s at one place but not the other.


And sometimes the word sequences even differ slightly because they were edited s at one place but not the other.

So , once this data gets out there , some people might start annotating this for , I don't know , dialogue acts or , um , you know , topics or what the heck. You know , there 's a zillion things that people might annotate this for. And the only thing that is really sort of common among all the versi the various versions of this data is the word sequence , or approximately.


So , once this data gets out there , some people might start annotating this for , I don't know , dialogue acts or , um , you know , topics or what the heck. You know , there 's a zillion things that people might annotate this for. And the only thing that is really sort of common among all the versi the various versions of this data is the word sequence , or approximately.


So , once this data gets out there , some people might start annotating this for , I don't know , dialogue acts or , um , you know , topics or what the heck. You know , there 's a zillion things that people might annotate this for. And the only thing that is really sort of common among all the versi the various versions of this data is the word sequence , or approximately.

Or the times. But , see , if you 'd annotate dialogue acts , you don't necessarily want to  or topics  you don't really want to be dealing with time - marks.


Or the times. But , see , if you 'd annotate dialogue acts , you don't necessarily want to  or topics  you don't really want to be dealing with time - marks.


Or the times. But , see , if you 'd annotate dialogue acts , you don't necessarily want to  or topics  you don't really want to be dealing with time - marks.

You 'd  it 's much more efficient for them to just see the word sequence , right ?


You 'd  it 's much more efficient for them to just see the word sequence , right ?

I mean , most people aren't as sophisticated as  as we are here with , you know , uh , time alignments and stuff. So  So the  the  the point is


You 'd  it 's much more efficient for them to just see the word sequence , right ?

I mean , most people aren't as sophisticated as  as we are here with , you know , uh , time alignments and stuff. So  So the  the  the point is

Should  should we mention some names on the people who are n ?


I mean , most people aren't as sophisticated as  as we are here with , you know , uh , time alignments and stuff. So  So the  the  the point is

Should  should we mention some names on the people who are n ?

Right. So , um , the p my point is that  you 're gonna end up with , uh , word sequences that are differently annotated. And  you want some tool , uh , that is able to sort of merge these different annotations back into a single , uh , version. OK ? Um , and we had this problem very massively , uh , at SRI when we worked , uh , a while back on ,  uh  well , on dialogue acts as well as , uh , you know , um , what was it ? uh ,


Should  should we mention some names on the people who are n ?

Right. So , um , the p my point is that  you 're gonna end up with , uh , word sequences that are differently annotated. And  you want some tool , uh , that is able to sort of merge these different annotations back into a single , uh , version. OK ? Um , and we had this problem very massively , uh , at SRI when we worked , uh , a while back on ,  uh  well , on dialogue acts as well as , uh , you know , um , what was it ? uh ,

utterance types. There 's , uh , automatic , uh , punctuation and stuff like that.


Right. So , um , the p my point is that  you 're gonna end up with , uh , word sequences that are differently annotated. And  you want some tool , uh , that is able to sort of merge these different annotations back into a single , uh , version. OK ? Um , and we had this problem very massively , uh , at SRI when we worked , uh , a while back on ,  uh  well , on dialogue acts as well as , uh , you know , um , what was it ? uh ,

utterance types. There 's , uh , automatic , uh , punctuation and stuff like that.


utterance types. There 's , uh , automatic , uh , punctuation and stuff like that.

Because we had one set of  annotations that were based on , uh , one version of the transcripts with a particular segmentation , and then we had another version that was based on , uh , a different s slightly edited version of the transcripts with a different segmentation. So ,  we had these two different versions which were  you know , you could tell they were from the same source but they weren't identical. So it was extremely hard  to reliably merge these two back together to correlate the information from the different annotations.


utterance types. There 's , uh , automatic , uh , punctuation and stuff like that.

Because we had one set of  annotations that were based on , uh , one version of the transcripts with a particular segmentation , and then we had another version that was based on , uh , a different s slightly edited version of the transcripts with a different segmentation. So ,  we had these two different versions which were  you know , you could tell they were from the same source but they weren't identical. So it was extremely hard  to reliably merge these two back together to correlate the information from the different annotations.

Yep. I  I don't see any way that file formats are gonna help us with that.


Because we had one set of  annotations that were based on , uh , one version of the transcripts with a particular segmentation , and then we had another version that was based on , uh , a different s slightly edited version of the transcripts with a different segmentation. So ,  we had these two different versions which were  you know , you could tell they were from the same source but they weren't identical. So it was extremely hard  to reliably merge these two back together to correlate the information from the different annotations.

Yep. I  I don't see any way that file formats are gonna help us with that.


Because we had one set of  annotations that were based on , uh , one version of the transcripts with a particular segmentation , and then we had another version that was based on , uh , a different s slightly edited version of the transcripts with a different segmentation. So ,  we had these two different versions which were  you know , you could tell they were from the same source but they weren't identical. So it was extremely hard  to reliably merge these two back together to correlate the information from the different annotations.

Yep. I  I don't see any way that file formats are gonna help us with that.

It 's  it 's all a question of semantic.


Yep. I  I don't see any way that file formats are gonna help us with that.

It 's  it 's all a question of semantic.

No. But once you have a file format , I can imagine writing  not personally , but someone writing a tool that is essentially an alignment tool , um , that mediates between various versions ,


It 's  it 's all a question of semantic.

No. But once you have a file format , I can imagine writing  not personally , but someone writing a tool that is essentially an alignment tool , um , that mediates between various versions ,


No. But once you have a file format , I can imagine writing  not personally , but someone writing a tool that is essentially an alignment tool , um , that mediates between various versions ,

and  uh , sort of like th uh , you know , you have this thing in UNIX where you have , uh , diff.


and  uh , sort of like th uh , you know , you have this thing in UNIX where you have , uh , diff.


and  uh , sort of like th uh , you know , you have this thing in UNIX where you have , uh , diff.

There 's the , uh , diff that actually tries to reconcile different  two diffs f  based on the same original.


There 's the , uh , diff that actually tries to reconcile different  two diffs f  based on the same original.


Something like that , um , but operating on these lattices that are really what 's behind this  uh , this annotation format.


Something like that , um , but operating on these lattices that are really what 's behind this  uh , this annotation format.

There 's actually a diff library you can use  to do things like that that  so you have different formats.


There 's actually a diff library you can use  to do things like that that  so you have different formats.


There 's actually a diff library you can use  to do things like that that  so you have different formats.

So somewhere in the API you would like to have like a merge or some  some function that merges two  two versions.


There 's actually a diff library you can use  to do things like that that  so you have different formats.

So somewhere in the API you would like to have like a merge or some  some function that merges two  two versions.

Yeah , I think it 's gonna be very hard. Any sort of structured anything when you try to merge is really , really hard


So somewhere in the API you would like to have like a merge or some  some function that merges two  two versions.

Yeah , I think it 's gonna be very hard. Any sort of structured anything when you try to merge is really , really hard


So somewhere in the API you would like to have like a merge or some  some function that merges two  two versions.

Yeah , I think it 's gonna be very hard. Any sort of structured anything when you try to merge is really , really hard

because you ha i The hard part isn't the file format. The hard part is specifying what you mean by " merge ".


Yeah , I think it 's gonna be very hard. Any sort of structured anything when you try to merge is really , really hard

because you ha i The hard part isn't the file format. The hard part is specifying what you mean by " merge ".


because you ha i The hard part isn't the file format. The hard part is specifying what you mean by " merge ".


because you ha i The hard part isn't the file format. The hard part is specifying what you mean by " merge ".

But the one thing that would work here actually for i that is more reliable than the utterances is the  the speaker ons and offs. So if you have a good ,


But the one thing that would work here actually for i that is more reliable than the utterances is the  the speaker ons and offs. So if you have a good ,

But this is exactly what I mean , is that  that the problem i


But the one thing that would work here actually for i that is more reliable than the utterances is the  the speaker ons and offs. So if you have a good ,

But this is exactly what I mean , is that  that the problem i

um  Yeah. You just have to know wha what to tie it to.


But the one thing that would work here actually for i that is more reliable than the utterances is the  the speaker ons and offs. So if you have a good ,

But this is exactly what I mean , is that  that the problem i

um  Yeah. You just have to know wha what to tie it to.

Yeah , exactly. The problem is saying " what are the semantics ,


But this is exactly what I mean , is that  that the problem i

um  Yeah. You just have to know wha what to tie it to.

Yeah , exactly. The problem is saying " what are the semantics ,


um  Yeah. You just have to know wha what to tie it to.

Yeah , exactly. The problem is saying " what are the semantics ,


Yeah , exactly. The problem is saying " what are the semantics ,


Right. So  so just to let you know what we  where we kluged it by , uh , doing  uh , by doing  Hhh.


Right. So  so just to let you know what we  where we kluged it by , uh , doing  uh , by doing  Hhh.

Both were based on words , so , bo we have two versions of the same words intersp you know , sprinkled with  with different tags for annotations.


Both were based on words , so , bo we have two versions of the same words intersp you know , sprinkled with  with different tags for annotations.


That 's just wh how I would have done it.


That 's just wh how I would have done it.

Yeah. But , you know , it had lots of errors and things would end up in the wrong order , and so forth. Uh , so , um , if you had a more


That 's just wh how I would have done it.

Yeah. But , you know , it had lots of errors and things would end up in the wrong order , and so forth. Uh , so , um , if you had a more

Uh , it  it was a kluge because it was basically reducing everything to  uh , to  uh , uh , to textual alignment.


Yeah. But , you know , it had lots of errors and things would end up in the wrong order , and so forth. Uh , so , um , if you had a more

Uh , it  it was a kluge because it was basically reducing everything to  uh , to  uh , uh , to textual alignment.


Uh , it  it was a kluge because it was basically reducing everything to  uh , to  uh , uh , to textual alignment.


Uh , it  it was a kluge because it was basically reducing everything to  uh , to  uh , uh , to textual alignment.

But , d isn't that something where whoever  if   if the people who are making changes , say in the transcripts , cuz this all happened when the transcripts were different  ye um , if they tie it to something , like if they tied it to the acoustic segment  if they  You know what I mean ? Then  Or if they tied it to an acoustic segment and we had the time - marks , that would help.


But , d isn't that something where whoever  if   if the people who are making changes , say in the transcripts , cuz this all happened when the transcripts were different  ye um , if they tie it to something , like if they tied it to the acoustic segment  if they  You know what I mean ? Then  Or if they tied it to an acoustic segment and we had the time - marks , that would help.


But , d isn't that something where whoever  if   if the people who are making changes , say in the transcripts , cuz this all happened when the transcripts were different  ye um , if they tie it to something , like if they tied it to the acoustic segment  if they  You know what I mean ? Then  Or if they tied it to an acoustic segment and we had the time - marks , that would help.

But the problem is exactly as Adam said , that you get , you know , y you don't have that information or it 's lost in the merge somehow ,


But the problem is exactly as Adam said , that you get , you know , y you don't have that information or it 's lost in the merge somehow ,


But the problem is exactly as Adam said , that you get , you know , y you don't have that information or it 's lost in the merge somehow ,

It  it seems to me that , um , we will have o an official version of the corpus , which will be only one  one version in terms of the words  where the words are concerned. We 'd still have the  the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the


It  it seems to me that , um , we will have o an official version of the corpus , which will be only one  one version in terms of the words  where the words are concerned. We 'd still have the  the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the


It  it seems to me that , um , we will have o an official version of the corpus , which will be only one  one version in terms of the words  where the words are concerned. We 'd still have the  the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the

because if the data gets out , people will do all kinds of things to it. And , uh , s you know , several years from now you might want to look into , um , the prosody of referring expressions. And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions. So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data.


because if the data gets out , people will do all kinds of things to it. And , uh , s you know , several years from now you might want to look into , um , the prosody of referring expressions. And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions. So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data.


because if the data gets out , people will do all kinds of things to it. And , uh , s you know , several years from now you might want to look into , um , the prosody of referring expressions. And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions. So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data.

But unfortunately they 've also hand - edited it.


But unfortunately they 've also hand - edited it.


But unfortunately they 've also hand - edited it.

But they 've also  Exactly. And so that 's exactly what we should  somehow when you distribute the data , say that  you know , that  have some way of knowing how to merge it back in and asking people to try to do that.


But they 've also  Exactly. And so that 's exactly what we should  somehow when you distribute the data , say that  you know , that  have some way of knowing how to merge it back in and asking people to try to do that.


What 's  what 's wrong with  doing times ? I


Time is unique. You were saying that you didn't think we should


what if they haven't notated with them , times ?


what if they haven't notated with them , times ?

Yeah. He  he 's a language modeling person , though.


what if they haven't notated with them , times ?

Yeah. He  he 's a language modeling person , though.

So  so imagine  I think his  his example is a good one. Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time.


Yeah. He  he 's a language modeling person , though.

So  so imagine  I think his  his example is a good one. Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time.


So  so imagine  I think his  his example is a good one. Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time.


He said that at this word is when  when it happened.


But then couldn't you just indirectly figure out the time  tied to the word ?


But then couldn't you just indirectly figure out the time  tied to the word ?

Sure. But what if  what if they change the words ?


Sure. But what if  what if they change the words ?

Not  Well , but you 'd have some anchoring point. He couldn't have changed all the words.


Sure. But what if  what if they change the words ?

Not  Well , but you 'd have some anchoring point. He couldn't have changed all the words.

But can they change the words without changing the time of the word ?


Not  Well , but you 'd have some anchoring point. He couldn't have changed all the words.

But can they change the words without changing the time of the word ?

Sure. But they could have changed it a little. The  the point is , that  that they may have annotated it off a word transcript that isn't the same as our word transcript , so how do you merge it back in ? I understand what you 're saying.


But can they change the words without changing the time of the word ?

Sure. But they could have changed it a little. The  the point is , that  that they may have annotated it off a word transcript that isn't the same as our word transcript , so how do you merge it back in ? I understand what you 're saying.

And I  I guess the answer is , um , it 's gonna be different every time. It 's j it 's just gonna be


Sure. But they could have changed it a little. The  the point is , that  that they may have annotated it off a word transcript that isn't the same as our word transcript , so how do you merge it back in ? I understand what you 're saying.

And I  I guess the answer is , um , it 's gonna be different every time. It 's j it 's just gonna be


And I  I guess the answer is , um , it 's gonna be different every time. It 's j it 's just gonna be


which is that " what do you mean by " merge " ? " So in this case where you have the words and you don't have the times , well , what do you mean by " merge " ? If you tell me what you mean , I can write a program to do it.


which is that " what do you mean by " merge " ? " So in this case where you have the words and you don't have the times , well , what do you mean by " merge " ? If you tell me what you mean , I can write a program to do it.

Right. Right. You can merge at the level of the representation that the other person preserved and that 's it.


which is that " what do you mean by " merge " ? " So in this case where you have the words and you don't have the times , well , what do you mean by " merge " ? If you tell me what you mean , I can write a program to do it.

Right. Right. You can merge at the level of the representation that the other person preserved and that 's it.

Right. And that 's about all you can do.


which is that " what do you mean by " merge " ? " So in this case where you have the words and you don't have the times , well , what do you mean by " merge " ? If you tell me what you mean , I can write a program to do it.

Right. Right. You can merge at the level of the representation that the other person preserved and that 's it.

Right. And that 's about all you can do.

And beyond that , all you know is  is relative ordering and sometimes even that is wrong.


Right. Right. You can merge at the level of the representation that the other person preserved and that 's it.

Right. And that 's about all you can do.

And beyond that , all you know is  is relative ordering and sometimes even that is wrong.

So  so in  so in this one you would have to do a best match between the word sequences ,


Right. And that 's about all you can do.

And beyond that , all you know is  is relative ordering and sometimes even that is wrong.

So  so in  so in this one you would have to do a best match between the word sequences ,


And beyond that , all you know is  is relative ordering and sometimes even that is wrong.

So  so in  so in this one you would have to do a best match between the word sequences ,


So  so in  so in this one you would have to do a best match between the word sequences ,

extract the times f from the best match of theirs to yours , and use that.


extract the times f from the best match of theirs to yours , and use that.

And then infer that their time - marks are somewhere in between.


And then infer that their time - marks are somewhere in between.

But it could be that they just  uh , I mean , it could be that they chunked  they  they lost certain utterances and all that stuff ,


But it could be that they just  uh , I mean , it could be that they chunked  they  they lost certain utterances and all that stuff ,

Right , exactly. So it could get very , very ugly.


Right , exactly. So it could get very , very ugly.


Well , I guess , w I  I didn't want to keep people too long and Adam wanted t people  I 'll read the digits. If anyone else offers to , that 'd be great. And


For th for the   for the benefit of science we 'll read the digits.


So we are here for the concept design meeting. So , we will first start by summarizing the mm  the previous meeting and the decision we've taken. Uh I will take notes during this meeting so uh that you can uh look at my uh folder to see the summary of this meeting afterwards. So each of you will uh show us the various investigation they've done during uh previous uh hours. We'll then t take decision in concert and then uh uh we will uh define the nest  next task , to have  to be done before the next meeting. So , last time we decided to have a simple interface. We also decided to have a wheel to change channel  previous channel button. Channel digit uh buttons should be uh protected by plastic cover or something for the remote control to look very simple. We have also button for volume , and to switch on off the T_V_. We have also uh the lightening feature for the remote control to be easy to find , and for fast development and low cost we have decided to have no L_C_D_ no voice features. So now uh we will have three presentations. So the conceptual specification by Industrial Designer , the specification of the U_I_ by  or U_I_


So we are here for the concept design meeting. So , we will first start by summarizing the mm  the previous meeting and the decision we've taken. Uh I will take notes during this meeting so uh that you can uh look at my uh folder to see the summary of this meeting afterwards. So each of you will uh show us the various investigation they've done during uh previous uh hours. We'll then t take decision in concert and then uh uh we will uh define the nest  next task , to have  to be done before the next meeting. So , last time we decided to have a simple interface. We also decided to have a wheel to change channel  previous channel button. Channel digit uh buttons should be uh protected by plastic cover or something for the remote control to look very simple. We have also button for volume , and to switch on off the T_V_. We have also uh the lightening feature for the remote control to be easy to find , and for fast development and low cost we have decided to have no L_C_D_ no voice features. So now uh we will have three presentations. So the conceptual specification by Industrial Designer , the specification of the U_I_ by  or U_I_

okay.  And uh the last point is uh trend watching by Market Expert. So maybe we can start with uh industrial design. So this is the presentation.


okay.  And uh the last point is uh trend watching by Market Expert. So maybe we can start with uh industrial design. So this is the presentation.

Maybe I can switch slide uh on your request.


okay.  And uh the last point is uh trend watching by Market Expert. So maybe we can start with uh industrial design. So this is the presentation.

Maybe I can switch slide uh on your request.

Yeah. I only v have three slides , so. I just look at the mm  um just this. On some web pages to find some documentation


Maybe I can switch slide uh on your request.

Yeah. I only v have three slides , so. I just look at the mm  um just this. On some web pages to find some documentation


Maybe I can switch slide uh on your request.

Yeah. I only v have three slides , so. I just look at the mm  um just this. On some web pages to find some documentation

and I think a remote control is , as I s mentioned previously , you just have a a very simple chip and the mm the user interface is just done usually by push button and in our case we are using a um a wheel control. So uh uh I was looking basically for that chip , which is uh very very standard , and uh I just looked for the wheel sensor and the standard push button. And um  yeah we can change directly.


Yeah. I only v have three slides , so. I just look at the mm  um just this. On some web pages to find some documentation

and I think a remote control is , as I s mentioned previously , you just have a a very simple chip and the mm the user interface is just done usually by push button and in our case we are using a um a wheel control. So uh uh I was looking basically for that chip , which is uh very very standard , and uh I just looked for the wheel sensor and the standard push button. And um  yeah we can change directly.


and I think a remote control is , as I s mentioned previously , you just have a a very simple chip and the mm the user interface is just done usually by push button and in our case we are using a um a wheel control. So uh uh I was looking basically for that chip , which is uh very very standard , and uh I just looked for the wheel sensor and the standard push button. And um  yeah we can change directly.

In fact I have the number of that element which is very standard for remote control. The push button are usually extremely cheap , but I just have one problem and this is related with the wheel sensor , which seems to be quite expensive.


In fact I have the number of that element which is very standard for remote control. The push button are usually extremely cheap , but I just have one problem and this is related with the wheel sensor , which seems to be quite expensive.


In fact I have the number of that element which is very standard for remote control. The push button are usually extremely cheap , but I just have one problem and this is related with the wheel sensor , which seems to be quite expensive.

And I think we if we could just talk about that if we really need a wheel sensor or if we can not  if if we could combine something with the push button.


And I think we if we could just talk about that if we really need a wheel sensor or if we can not  if if we could combine something with the push button.


And I think we if we could just talk about that if we really need a wheel sensor or if we can not  if if we could combine something with the push button.

Uh a wheel sensor is fifty time the price of a a a push button.


Uh a wheel sensor is fifty time the price of a a a push button.

But is it a significant price on the whole remote control ?


But is it a significant price on the whole remote control ?

Because we can afford up to twelve Euros for the price of the remote control.


Because we can afford up to twelve Euros for the price of the remote control.

So will will will this with uh including all possible things , so buttons , wheel and the chip , be uh lower than twelve Euros to produce ?


Because we can afford up to twelve Euros for the price of the remote control.

So will will will this with uh including all possible things , so buttons , wheel and the chip , be uh lower than twelve Euros to produce ?

I I th  But I don't think that uh we should  We should talk about uh the design of the box also which needs some money.


So will will will this with uh including all possible things , so buttons , wheel and the chip , be uh lower than twelve Euros to produce ?

I I th  But I don't think that uh we should  We should talk about uh the design of the box also which needs some money.


I I th  But I don't think that uh we should  We should talk about uh the design of the box also which needs some money.


Did you receive the email about the voice recognition ?


Yeah. You we uh an email from the manufacturing division that they have basically a voice recognition chip already developed.


Yeah. You we uh an email from the manufacturing division that they have basically a voice recognition chip already developed.

Says  Yeah. It says that ri right now they just use it to uh to record uh answers to particular questions. But I guess it could be


Says  Yeah. It says that ri right now they just use it to uh to record uh answers to particular questions. But I guess it could be

I guess it's possible. I mean instead of recording the answers you can just uh record uh something simpler like a command.


Says  Yeah. It says that ri right now they just use it to uh to record uh answers to particular questions. But I guess it could be

I guess it's possible. I mean instead of recording the answers you can just uh record uh something simpler like a command.

Okay and there can uh recognize some commands and stuff ?


I guess it's possible. I mean instead of recording the answers you can just uh record uh something simpler like a command.

Okay and there can uh recognize some commands and stuff ?

Yeah you reco recognize commands and you can record new commands and stuff , so if they already have it as uh as a chip


Okay and there can uh recognize some commands and stuff ?

Yeah you reco recognize commands and you can record new commands and stuff , so if they already have it as uh as a chip


Yeah you reco recognize commands and you can record new commands and stuff , so if they already have it as uh as a chip

Okay maybe we can just uh listen to this presentation and then take decision later on  according to those news.


Okay maybe we can just uh listen to this presentation and then take decision later on  according to those news.


Okay maybe we can just uh listen to this presentation and then take decision later on  according to those news.

Yeah but I think it's yeah  Sorry , I haven't written my personal references. Um  the I I just want to mention the the problem of the the r wheels sensor which is much more expensive than any push button ,


Yeah but I think it's yeah  Sorry , I haven't written my personal references. Um  the I I just want to mention the the problem of the the r wheels sensor which is much more expensive than any push button ,


Yeah but I think it's yeah  Sorry , I haven't written my personal references. Um  the I I just want to mention the the problem of the the r wheels sensor which is much more expensive than any push button ,

and if we could reduce that. We we have already some good things uh with um um with the backlight of the push button.


Yeah but I think it's yeah  Sorry , I haven't written my personal references. Um  the I I just want to mention the the problem of the the r wheels sensor which is much more expensive than any push button ,

and if we could reduce that. We we have already some good things uh with um um with the backlight of the push button.

Mm-hmm. I have a question about that actually . Um , what is the purpose of the light ?


and if we could reduce that. We we have already some good things uh with um um with the backlight of the push button.

Mm-hmm. I have a question about that actually . Um , what is the purpose of the light ?

Just to to make something which is uh slightly more design that uh a squarey box with a rubber


Mm-hmm. I have a question about that actually . Um , what is the purpose of the light ?

Just to to make something which is uh slightly more design that uh a squarey box with a rubber

You can easily find the button in the dark or so ?


Just to to make something which is uh slightly more design that uh a squarey box with a rubber

You can easily find the button in the dark or so ?

But  But in th in the dark uh  Yeah but is going to be always turned on , the light ?


You can easily find the button in the dark or so ?

But  But in th in the dark uh  Yeah but is going to be always turned on , the light ?

It will be turned on when the when the user move the remote control I think , no ?


You can easily find the button in the dark or so ?

But  But in th in the dark uh  Yeah but is going to be always turned on , the light ?

It will be turned on when the when the user move the remote control I think , no ?

But if you move it then you have it , you don't need to find it.


But  But in th in the dark uh  Yeah but is going to be always turned on , the light ?

It will be turned on when the when the user move the remote control I think , no ?

But if you move it then you have it , you don't need to find it.


It will be turned on when the when the user move the remote control I think , no ?

But if you move it then you have it , you don't need to find it.

You can see the buttons better , of course.


But if you move it then you have it , you don't need to find it.

You can see the buttons better , of course.


You can see the buttons better , of course.


But if you move it then you have to have some sensor to  when you move it to detect your movement.


But if you move it then you have to have some sensor to  when you move it to detect your movement.

As soon as you thought to move the the remote control you have the light.


But if you move it then you have to have some sensor to  when you move it to detect your movement.

As soon as you thought to move the the remote control you have the light.

Yeah , but you need another sensor for that , right ?


As soon as you thought to move the the remote control you have the light.

Yeah , but you need another sensor for that , right ?


Yeah , but you need another sensor for that , right ?

I don't think that this is really expensive , but at the end this is plenty of unexpen eh very cheap devices but uh the bill starts to be


I don't think that this is really expensive , but at the end this is plenty of unexpen eh very cheap devices but uh the bill starts to be

Okay. Mm. Extra. Yeah , okay. Mm. Yeah , but I expected also the wheel would be cheap but you tell me that it is very expensive so ,


I don't think that this is really expensive , but at the end this is plenty of unexpen eh very cheap devices but uh the bill starts to be

Okay. Mm. Extra. Yeah , okay. Mm. Yeah , but I expected also the wheel would be cheap but you tell me that it is very expensive so ,

First of all I was thinking to have a a continuous light


Okay. Mm. Extra. Yeah , okay. Mm. Yeah , but I expected also the wheel would be cheap but you tell me that it is very expensive so ,

First of all I was thinking to have a a continuous light

and you w when t you you you you press the on button you have the light on your remote control , when you want to turn off your device


First of all I was thinking to have a a continuous light

and you w when t you you you you press the on button you have the light on your remote control , when you want to turn off your device


and you w when t you you you you press the on button you have the light on your remote control , when you want to turn off your device

But it can be uh battery consuming , no ? To have the light always on ?


But it can be uh battery consuming , no ? To have the light always on ?


. So uh my one , it uh should be in the shared folder.


just move to the next slide.  So basically  want very simple , right ? That's the major idea , as simple as possible.


just move to the next slide.  So basically  want very simple , right ? That's the major idea , as simple as possible.

So I just look at some current designs uh on the web , of usually more complicated remote controls. And let's look at two of them because uh th even though they have many buttons they look quite simple. And in our case we just uh reject the buttons what we don't need and it become even simpler.


So I just look at some current designs uh on the web , of usually more complicated remote controls. And let's look at two of them because uh th even though they have many buttons they look quite simple. And in our case we just uh reject the buttons what we don't need and it become even simpler.


So I just look at some current designs uh on the web , of usually more complicated remote controls. And let's look at two of them because uh th even though they have many buttons they look quite simple. And in our case we just uh reject the buttons what we don't need and it become even simpler.

And also does it uh fit well in hand ? Because it was uh th your wrist problem with the usage.


And also does it uh fit well in hand ? Because it was uh th your wrist problem with the usage.

Yeah. Well this these uh these remotes are quite big , so go to the next page , so. We have all these buttons as you can see , but most of them , we just need the ones in the middle.


Yeah. Well this these uh these remotes are quite big , so go to the next page , so. We have all these buttons as you can see , but most of them , we just need the ones in the middle.

So , from the bottom or whatever is there , uh the uh the numbers and then the top , uh until the ten also , this middle part ,


So , from the bottom or whatever is there , uh the uh the numbers and then the top , uh until the ten also , this middle part ,


So , from the bottom or whatever is there , uh the uh the numbers and then the top , uh until the ten also , this middle part ,

and on the left one is exactly the same. So it's basically more or less how we would like it , with a big volume control , big channel control , and mute and power , yeah ?


and on the left one is exactly the same. So it's basically more or less how we would like it , with a big volume control , big channel control , and mute and power , yeah ?


So basically , w software we will build will look more or less the same as these two.


So basically , w software we will build will look more or less the same as these two.

Yeah. With a maybe a more ergonomic design on on the bottom part.


So basically , w software we will build will look more or less the same as these two.

Yeah. With a maybe a more ergonomic design on on the bottom part.

Yeah , if you have , for example   I think that the volume and the buttons that are there on the top are not very easy to reach with your thumb.


Yeah. With a maybe a more ergonomic design on on the bottom part.

Yeah , if you have , for example   I think that the volume and the buttons that are there on the top are not very easy to reach with your thumb.

It could be on the right side , for example.


Yeah , if you have , for example   I think that the volume and the buttons that are there on the top are not very easy to reach with your thumb.

It could be on the right side , for example.


It could be on the right side , for example.

Yeah. Because we don't have these input buttons and this other stuff that they have. And I think that the plastic cover is not very good uh idea because


Yeah. Because we don't have these input buttons and this other stuff that they have. And I think that the plastic cover is not very good uh idea because

you open it , it can break , you ca you can do various things.


you open it , it can break , you ca you can do various things.

Uh you just need to put the channel numbers somewhere a bit out of the way.


Uh you just need to put the channel numbers somewhere a bit out of the way.


yeah. Uh and it's easy to press the other  the big buttons , but uh , it's not that difficult to press the the channel buttons either. Mm. Yeah , I think that if you put the cover it will be even more difficult for the user.


yeah. Uh and it's easy to press the other  the big buttons , but uh , it's not that difficult to press the the channel buttons either. Mm. Yeah , I think that if you put the cover it will be even more difficult for the user.

Alright , you won't  yeah. Usually what  I have noticed that people put the plastic cover on things that you normally don't mess with , like buttons for t uh tuning the channels and stuff like that.


Alright , you won't  yeah. Usually what  I have noticed that people put the plastic cover on things that you normally don't mess with , like buttons for t uh tuning the channels and stuff like that.

Yeah. That you want to protect a bit. And I think it's uh it's reasonable.


Yeah. That you want to protect a bit. And I think it's uh it's reasonable.

So , I don't think  Yeah , this is just the the wheel.


So , I don't think  Yeah , this is just the the wheel.

We could use the  some wheels can be pushed down , could use the push down of the wheel for the record if we want.


We could use the  some wheels can be pushed down , could use the push down of the wheel for the record if we want.

Uh so we could just basically use one just wheel and uh user could use just the wheel to do everything with the channels in that case.


We could use the  some wheels can be pushed down , could use the push down of the wheel for the record if we want.

Uh so we could just basically use one just wheel and uh user could use just the wheel to do everything with the channels in that case.

Yeah. Maybe the wheel will be a  good advantage over our competitors.


Uh so we could just basically use one just wheel and uh user could use just the wheel to do everything with the channels in that case.

Yeah. Maybe the wheel will be a  good advantage over our competitors.


Uh so we could just basically use one just wheel and uh user could use just the wheel to do everything with the channels in that case.

Yeah. Maybe the wheel will be a  good advantage over our competitors.

Because otherwise it's pretty standard apart the fact that it's very simple. So maybe it's worse to uh to have more expense on that's that aspect.


Yeah. Maybe the wheel will be a  good advantage over our competitors.

Because otherwise it's pretty standard apart the fact that it's very simple. So maybe it's worse to uh to have more expense on that's that aspect.


Because otherwise it's pretty standard apart the fact that it's very simple. So maybe it's worse to uh to have more expense on that's that aspect.

Yeah , I guess the market researcher will tell us all about that.


Because otherwise it's pretty standard apart the fact that it's very simple. So maybe it's worse to uh to have more expense on that's that aspect.

Yeah , I guess the market researcher will tell us all about that.

Okay. So we can move to the  Is there any question ? For designer of user interface ?  or we can move to the next part , maybe , and discuss afterwards ? Okay.


Yeah , I guess the market researcher will tell us all about that.

Okay. So we can move to the  Is there any question ? For designer of user interface ?  or we can move to the next part , maybe , and discuss afterwards ? Okay.


Okay. So we can move to the  Is there any question ? For designer of user interface ?  or we can move to the next part , maybe , and discuss afterwards ? Okay.

Can I ?  So now the recent investigation we we have done fo of the remote control um. So , the most important aspect for remote controls is to be fancy look and feel and not current functional look and feel. And um the second aspect is uh that the remote control should be uh technological innovative.


Can I ?  So now the recent investigation we we have done fo of the remote control um. So , the most important aspect for remote controls is to be fancy look and feel and not current functional look and feel. And um the second aspect is uh that the remote control should be uh technological innovative.


Can I ?  So now the recent investigation we we have done fo of the remote control um. So , the most important aspect for remote controls is to be fancy look and feel and not current functional look and feel. And um the second aspect is uh that the remote control should be uh technological innovative.

And the third most important aspect is to to  is that the co remote control should be easy to use. So , are things we are we have uh speak about before.


And the third most important aspect is to to  is that the co remote control should be easy to use. So , are things we are we have uh speak about before.


after. And there is a fashion watchers in Paris and Milan that have detected the following trends , uh fruits and vegetables will be the most important theme for clothes , shoes , and furnitures.  So , maybe if our  remote control have to be a fruit form or vegetable form


And the mm the material is expected to be spongy.


And the mm the material is expected to be spongy.

Uh I don't know which material  can be spongy ,


Uh I don't know which material  can be spongy ,


Well , wou wou I think we can certainly just put the electronics in a spongy thing ,


I think it is good also f to have a spongy material , yeah.


Hey that's a cool one. We could say that if you throw it , you have a sensor , and you throw it and hits the television and turns it off.


Ah it's okay. I know that they do that for alarm clock also.


Ah it's okay. I know that they do that for alarm clock also.

An and and uh this uh you can yeah you can say that. You ca uh you can go uh before


An and and uh this uh you can yeah you can say that. You ca uh you can go uh before

, before , yes. And you know here the more iz important aspect is the fancy look and feel , after is uh technological innovative , and after the easy to use.


An and and uh this uh you can yeah you can say that. You ca uh you can go uh before

, before , yes. And you know here the more iz important aspect is the fancy look and feel , after is uh technological innovative , and after the easy to use.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's innovative to use the mm the wheel because I think no one else has.


, before , yes. And you know here the more iz important aspect is the fancy look and feel , after is uh technological innovative , and after the easy to use.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's innovative to use the mm the wheel because I think no one else has.


Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's innovative to use the mm the wheel because I think no one else has.


Yeah that's why I think we have to keep that if it's possible.


Yeah that's why I think we have to keep that if it's possible.

Yeah. I think it's  it makes it both easy and both innos innovative.


Yeah. I think it's  it makes it both easy and both innos innovative.

So I think it's a good aspect and it should be kept.


So I think it's a good aspect and it should be kept.

How do we make it look cool is the question.


How do we make it look cool is the question.

We have to make it l look like a fruit or vegetable.


We have to make it l look like a fruit or vegetable.


We have to make it l look like a fruit or vegetable.

Maybe uh um  a colour that remember some fruit uh , things like that.


Maybe uh um  a colour that remember some fruit uh , things like that.


Maybe uh um  a colour that remember some fruit uh , things like that.

Well the obvious thing is a banana , I guess.


Well the obvious thing is a banana , I guess.


Well the obvious thing is a banana , I guess.

I thought about a a pear , for example. You know the pear , is like that and it's it's easy to to have in in hand


I thought about a a pear , for example. You know the pear , is like that and it's it's easy to to have in in hand


Yeah. Maybe pear yeah or something like that.


Yeah. Maybe pear yeah or something like that.

Yeah. We can discuss that uh. D D Is is there anything you want to add ?


Yeah. We can discuss that uh. D D Is is there anything you want to add ?

I don't think so. I think we we can have like yeah a pear is good , fit well , or banana as you told.


I don't think so. I think we we can have like yeah a pear is good , fit well , or banana as you told.


I don't think so. I think we we can have like yeah a pear is good , fit well , or banana as you told.

And for maybe look and feel , what about a a piece of ice , with blue L_E_D_ inside ?


And for maybe look and feel , what about a a piece of ice , with blue L_E_D_ inside ?


And for maybe look and feel , what about a a piece of ice , with blue L_E_D_ inside ?

The trend is spongy , and vegetable fruits.


The trend is spongy , and vegetable fruits.


The trend is spongy , and vegetable fruits.

I think p spongy is good because it it will be robust as well.


I think p spongy is good because it it will be robust as well.


So , I think we can keep the wheel because it's uh easy , it's innovative , even if the cost is a bit higher ,


So , I think we can keep the wheel because it's uh easy , it's innovative , even if the cost is a bit higher ,

and we also have to find a , so , a fruit like pear or banana wit uh any others idea you have. What kind of fr fruit would you like to to control your T_V_ with ?


and we also have to find a , so , a fruit like pear or banana wit uh any others idea you have. What kind of fr fruit would you like to to control your T_V_ with ?


Banana is also yellow so you you can't lost your remote control then.


You y you don't use the banana when the banana is curving like that ,


You y you don't use the banana when the banana is curving like that ,

but when the banana is curving like that , with the wheel on the top and to control ,


but when the banana is curving like that , with the wheel on the top and to control ,


Yeah so you can just have uh just have this curve , yeah , and you move uh your hand here to press the buttons and then you move uh on the other side.


Yeah so you can just have uh just have this curve , yeah , and you move uh your hand here to press the buttons and then you move uh on the other side.

So you can have it on on two sides and it'll be cool ,


So you can have it on on two sides and it'll be cool ,


So you can have it on on two sides and it'll be cool ,

I think it's a good design and it's innovative as well then. Maybe we can keep the banana. And it will be very easy to find.


I think it's a good design and it's innovative as well then. Maybe we can keep the banana. And it will be very easy to find.


If you if you start with uh fancy fruits and fra s and tha


If you if you start with uh fancy fruits and fra s and tha

Ah-ha. You can also take into account the fact that the banana fits with the colour scheme of our company.


Ah-ha. You can also take into account the fact that the banana fits with the colour scheme of our company.

Yeah it's really uh really a good point.


Yeah it's really uh really a good point.

Yeah.  I hope the students of management die ,


Yeah.  I hope the students of management die ,

I think it  So  One second. So we have to take some decision on this aspect. So , uh so for


I think it  So  One second. So we have to take some decision on this aspect. So , uh so for


I think it  So  One second. So we have to take some decision on this aspect. So , uh so for

we have to think about those aspects , sorry.


we have to think about those aspects , sorry.

So we will just use a a standard battery ?


we have to think about those aspects , sorry.

So we will just use a a standard battery ?

And uh the chip we  chip imprint we know exactly which one we are going to use. Uh what do you mean by case ?


So we will just use a a standard battery ?

And uh the chip we  chip imprint we know exactly which one we are going to use. Uh what do you mean by case ?

I think it's the box that should be spongy , banana's shape.


And uh the chip we  chip imprint we know exactly which one we are going to use. Uh what do you mean by case ?

I think it's the box that should be spongy , banana's shape.

Yeah. Uh I mean for me if we use a a spongy banana case , doesn't matter.


And uh the chip we  chip imprint we know exactly which one we are going to use. Uh what do you mean by case ?

I think it's the box that should be spongy , banana's shape.

Yeah. Uh I mean for me if we use a a spongy banana case , doesn't matter.

I just want to have so something to prin to to fix my my components onto that box , and that's it.


I think it's the box that should be spongy , banana's shape.

Yeah. Uh I mean for me if we use a a spongy banana case , doesn't matter.

I just want to have so something to prin to to fix my my components onto that box , and that's it.

The only th Yeah. Y Yeah that can be in inside th in the structure.


Yeah. Uh I mean for me if we use a a spongy banana case , doesn't matter.

I just want to have so something to prin to to fix my my components onto that box , and that's it.

The only th Yeah. Y Yeah that can be in inside th in the structure.


I just want to have so something to prin to to fix my my components onto that box , and that's it.

The only th Yeah. Y Yeah that can be in inside th in the structure.

But uh the thing is that the buttons and the wheel have to be


The only th Yeah. Y Yeah that can be in inside th in the structure.

But uh the thing is that the buttons and the wheel have to be


But uh the thing is that the buttons and the wheel have to be

I mean if it's spongy then the buttons and the wheel have to  I mean if it's spongy then it's going to move , right ? So , it's going to be bend a lot.


I mean if it's spongy then the buttons and the wheel have to  I mean if it's spongy then it's going to move , right ? So , it's going to be bend a lot.


In fact it it should be something odd shaped , with a spongy cover.


Okay odd shape with spongy  cover. And standard battery okay , a chip imprint , there's no specific problem. So we agree to put the wheel


Okay odd shape with spongy  cover. And standard battery okay , a chip imprint , there's no specific problem. So we agree to put the wheel

Mm-hmm.  Wheel on the top. Button , where do we want some buttons ?