Um , the case , we have a few options , plastic , rubber or wood. Um and then as far as the way it's shaped , we can do standard boring flat , which we probably don't wanna do , curved or very sexy double curved.

What kind of th thickness are we looking at ?


Um , the case , we have a few options , plastic , rubber or wood. Um and then as far as the way it's shaped , we can do standard boring flat , which we probably don't wanna do , curved or very sexy double curved.

What kind of th thickness are we looking at ?

Um , I imagine that we could specify. Um , I don't see any reason to go outside of the convention of three or four millimetres. Yeah.


What kind of th thickness are we looking at ?

Um , I imagine that we could specify. Um , I don't see any reason to go outside of the convention of three or four millimetres. Yeah.

Um , the buttons , there are multiple scroll buttons available from our manufacturer , but to use those we'd have to use more chips , um and that would cost us more. And if we do go with the rubber doubled curved case um we'll have to use rubber push buttons because the other buttons aren't compatible with that.


Um , I imagine that we could specify. Um , I don't see any reason to go outside of the convention of three or four millimetres. Yeah.

Um , the buttons , there are multiple scroll buttons available from our manufacturer , but to use those we'd have to use more chips , um and that would cost us more. And if we do go with the rubber doubled curved case um we'll have to use rubber push buttons because the other buttons aren't compatible with that.


Um , the buttons , there are multiple scroll buttons available from our manufacturer , but to use those we'd have to use more chips , um and that would cost us more. And if we do go with the rubber doubled curved case um we'll have to use rubber push buttons because the other buttons aren't compatible with that.


touch screen equals many chips which equals many Euro.


touch screen equals many chips which equals many Euro.

Um , one thing that I noticed was that most remotes operate on a infrare on the infrared part of the spectrum. So you notice when you push a button on a remote you can't see anything coming out of it but in fact there is light coming out of the remote and you know the television can detect that. And if you were to record  if you were to make a video recording you could actually see the light. Uh one thing that I thought might be interesting was to use part  use visible light coming out of the remote , just kind of as a fun gimmick.


Um , one thing that I noticed was that most remotes operate on a infrare on the infrared part of the spectrum. So you notice when you push a button on a remote you can't see anything coming out of it but in fact there is light coming out of the remote and you know the television can detect that. And if you were to record  if you were to make a video recording you could actually see the light. Uh one thing that I thought might be interesting was to use part  use visible light coming out of the remote , just kind of as a fun gimmick.

So you could actually see something coming out of the remote when you pushed it.


So you could actually see something coming out of the remote when you pushed it.

Course it'd have to be a part of the spectrum that wouldn't damage the human eye or anything like that.


Course it'd have to be a part of the spectrum that wouldn't damage the human eye or anything like that.


Course it'd have to be a part of the spectrum that wouldn't damage the human eye or anything like that.

is there an option that we can have that off or on so a person can select like


is there an option that we can have that off or on so a person can select like


is there an option that we can have that off or on so a person can select like

I am sure that we could do that. Um , of course


I am sure that we could do that. Um , of course

Yeah I like the idea , it's a good idea.


Yeah I like the idea , it's a good idea.

Just to set us apart a little bit. Um , and then on to the circuit board that we're gonna use , also known as the chip. Uh , we really don't have any way around the T_A_ one one eight three five.


Just to set us apart a little bit. Um , and then on to the circuit board that we're gonna use , also known as the chip. Uh , we really don't have any way around the T_A_ one one eight three five.

Um findings , okay , we're very limited by what our current manufacturers can offer , um and my question to all of you is , should we look to other manufacturies or should we just make do with what we have available ?


Um findings , okay , we're very limited by what our current manufacturers can offer , um and my question to all of you is , should we look to other manufacturies or should we just make do with what we have available ?


Well I'd say shop around but with our time constraints , is that really a feasible option ?


Well I'd say shop around but with our time constraints , is that really a feasible option ?

Right , that's my concern too. Um , if we do go the lithium battery route then we'll have to go outside our current manufacturer. My personal preference is  I'll just throw my cards on the table , uh I think we should probably go the solar battery route , just to kinda keep with the environmentally friendly theme that we have going on. Uh , I like the idea of the visible light signalling , that's something to set us apart and uh I was thinking about  I was thinking of ways that we could produce the remote in a variety of different case materials to suit different tastes. So we're not so confined by one style and say some  you know , say our  the one


Right , that's my concern too. Um , if we do go the lithium battery route then we'll have to go outside our current manufacturer. My personal preference is  I'll just throw my cards on the table , uh I think we should probably go the solar battery route , just to kinda keep with the environmentally friendly theme that we have going on. Uh , I like the idea of the visible light signalling , that's something to set us apart and uh I was thinking about  I was thinking of ways that we could produce the remote in a variety of different case materials to suit different tastes. So we're not so confined by one style and say some  you know , say our  the one

if we just go with one and it doesn't go over well then we're in a bad situation.


if we just go with one and it doesn't go over well then we're in a bad situation.


if we just go with one and it doesn't go over well then we're in a bad situation.

Can we do marketing piloting too ? Try to see what kind  before we launch  can we see how they're received ?


Can we do marketing piloting too ? Try to see what kind  before we launch  can we see how they're received ?

Um  It's an option , uh but actually there's  I've got some research already on like what we're looking at and trends in casing right now


Can we do marketing piloting too ? Try to see what kind  before we launch  can we see how they're received ?

Um  It's an option , uh but actually there's  I've got some research already on like what we're looking at and trends in casing right now

which actually might even come into play beforehand ,


Um  It's an option , uh but actually there's  I've got some research already on like what we're looking at and trends in casing right now

which actually might even come into play beforehand ,


which actually might even come into play beforehand ,

it may help us decide for now. Temporarily anyway.


it may help us decide for now. Temporarily anyway.


it may help us decide for now. Temporarily anyway.

That's perfect , so I guess that makes sense for you to take it from here.


That's perfect , so I guess that makes sense for you to take it from here.

I guess so , 'cause I found some interesting things.


I guess so , 'cause I found some interesting things.


I know , what a teaser ain't it. Um.  Right. So


I know , what a teaser ain't it. Um.  Right. So

current market trends. Screen. Um , basically I was looking at what's going on in the remote control market right now and what's going on in other design fields , to see sort of what's what's trendy , what's new , what's happening. Um , remote control right now  basically everybody says they want newer , fancier , more exciting  they're sick of this boring , normal , functional , um  that we need innovative design options and there needs to be an easy user interface. Um the challenge is that current trends right now , across the board in fashion , in furniture , in technology , is a very organic fruit and vegetable kind of thing.


I know , what a teaser ain't it. Um.  Right. So

current market trends. Screen. Um , basically I was looking at what's going on in the remote control market right now and what's going on in other design fields , to see sort of what's what's trendy , what's new , what's happening. Um , remote control right now  basically everybody says they want newer , fancier , more exciting  they're sick of this boring , normal , functional , um  that we need innovative design options and there needs to be an easy user interface. Um the challenge is that current trends right now , across the board in fashion , in furniture , in technology , is a very organic fruit and vegetable kind of thing.

Now I'm not saying we should have , you know , tomato shaped remote controls or anything , but I think it is possible maybe to use um natural colours , like if wood is an option , that whole organic , sleek , clean ,


current market trends. Screen. Um , basically I was looking at what's going on in the remote control market right now and what's going on in other design fields , to see sort of what's what's trendy , what's new , what's happening. Um , remote control right now  basically everybody says they want newer , fancier , more exciting  they're sick of this boring , normal , functional , um  that we need innovative design options and there needs to be an easy user interface. Um the challenge is that current trends right now , across the board in fashion , in furniture , in technology , is a very organic fruit and vegetable kind of thing.

Now I'm not saying we should have , you know , tomato shaped remote controls or anything , but I think it is possible maybe to use um natural colours , like if wood is an option , that whole organic , sleek , clean ,

v line thing may be something we can look into. Different skin options , or if we can't afford this touch plate thing , or touch face screen interface um , maybe having the b images be specific , like you could choose your menu bullets to be


Now I'm not saying we should have , you know , tomato shaped remote controls or anything , but I think it is possible maybe to use um natural colours , like if wood is an option , that whole organic , sleek , clean ,

v line thing may be something we can look into. Different skin options , or if we can't afford this touch plate thing , or touch face screen interface um , maybe having the b images be specific , like you could choose your menu bullets to be


v line thing may be something we can look into. Different skin options , or if we can't afford this touch plate thing , or touch face screen interface um , maybe having the b images be specific , like you could choose your menu bullets to be


v line thing may be something we can look into. Different skin options , or if we can't afford this touch plate thing , or touch face screen interface um , maybe having the b images be specific , like you could choose your menu bullets to be

or  okay , not the example I would choose , but you know what I mean to t sort of  and th apparently the feel of the next couple of years is spongy ,


or  okay , not the example I would choose , but you know what I mean to t sort of  and th apparently the feel of the next couple of years is spongy ,


or  okay , not the example I would choose , but you know what I mean to t sort of  and th apparently the feel of the next couple of years is spongy ,

uh not something I I've come up with a  though if we can get around to getting piloting , I thought maybe a casing option like uh not like a skin , but like a holder almost if you could do like um , leather options or wood options or something


uh not something I I've come up with a  though if we can get around to getting piloting , I thought maybe a casing option like uh not like a skin , but like a holder almost if you could do like um , leather options or wood options or something

Hmm. I should have mentioned this um. As far as the rubber that we can use  we can use a rubber as part of the case ,


uh not something I I've come up with a  though if we can get around to getting piloting , I thought maybe a casing option like uh not like a skin , but like a holder almost if you could do like um , leather options or wood options or something

Hmm. I should have mentioned this um. As far as the rubber that we can use  we can use a rubber as part of the case ,

it has a consistency of those stress balls.


Hmm. I should have mentioned this um. As far as the rubber that we can use  we can use a rubber as part of the case ,

it has a consistency of those stress balls.


it has a consistency of those stress balls.


Might be an interesting way to go. Um , yeah so something to sit on for now. So overall I think we should stick with what we're finding , everyone's looking for easy to use , technologically innovative and this fancy new  I think perhaps the double curve thing and maybe this rubber option is our best way to go for right now.


Might be an interesting way to go. Um , yeah so something to sit on for now. So overall I think we should stick with what we're finding , everyone's looking for easy to use , technologically innovative and this fancy new  I think perhaps the double curve thing and maybe this rubber option is our best way to go for right now.

Interface , oh the interface graphics for the um


Interface , oh the interface graphics for the um

Yeah. Um. Well I d but then if the touch screen thing isn't gonna work out for us that's really a non-issue.


Interface , oh the interface graphics for the um

Yeah. Um. Well I d but then if the touch screen thing isn't gonna work out for us that's really a non-issue.

I like the idea of of rubber too because it's  tends to be associated with being durable , something that you can drop and it doesn't matter.


Yeah. Um. Well I d but then if the touch screen thing isn't gonna work out for us that's really a non-issue.

I like the idea of of rubber too because it's  tends to be associated with being durable , something that you can drop and it doesn't matter.


I like the idea of of rubber too because it's  tends to be associated with being durable , something that you can drop and it doesn't matter.


you go to so many houses these days and you see broken remote controls.


you go to so many houses these days and you see broken remote controls.

Taped with duck tape and what have you ,


Taped with duck tape and what have you ,


Taped with duck tape and what have you ,

you wouldn't have that problem if you used rubber.


you wouldn't have that problem if you used rubber.


I think that goes against the whole fancy something , a new line ,


Phew. Computer's adjusting. One moment please. So interme interface concept by your faithful user interface designer.


Phew. Computer's adjusting. One moment please. So interme interface concept by your faithful user interface designer.

So yur user interface , guys , is basically aspects of a computer system that we can see or hear , or otherwise uh perceive. Uh , commands and mechanisms , that basically user uses to control the operator operating system. Here's a d series of different remote controls


Phew. Computer's adjusting. One moment please. So interme interface concept by your faithful user interface designer.

So yur user interface , guys , is basically aspects of a computer system that we can see or hear , or otherwise uh perceive. Uh , commands and mechanisms , that basically user uses to control the operator operating system. Here's a d series of different remote controls

that are out on the market today. I think we're definitely trying to get away from this kind of a look.


So yur user interface , guys , is basically aspects of a computer system that we can see or hear , or otherwise uh perceive. Uh , commands and mechanisms , that basically user uses to control the operator operating system. Here's a d series of different remote controls

that are out on the market today. I think we're definitely trying to get away from this kind of a look.

Um , so the following are a bunch of different uh interface uh concepts. Uh voice recognition , we we um actually have some new uh information from our research design team but uh I'll get to that in a moment. Um , so current voice recognition starts up to about eighty speech samples , um and basically you record your own verbal labels c and connect them to the remote control. Now our design team , research team , has been able to uh set up a system in which uh you can teach the remote control voice c recognition system to respond to um  with standard responses. Like you could say good morning uh remote control and it'll say in a sexy female voice , Good morning Joe. Um.


that are out on the market today. I think we're definitely trying to get away from this kind of a look.

Um , so the following are a bunch of different uh interface uh concepts. Uh voice recognition , we we um actually have some new uh information from our research design team but uh I'll get to that in a moment. Um , so current voice recognition starts up to about eighty speech samples , um and basically you record your own verbal labels c and connect them to the remote control. Now our design team , research team , has been able to uh set up a system in which uh you can teach the remote control voice c recognition system to respond to um  with standard responses. Like you could say good morning uh remote control and it'll say in a sexy female voice , Good morning Joe. Um.

In fact we already have this for a coffee maker line


Um , so the following are a bunch of different uh interface uh concepts. Uh voice recognition , we we um actually have some new uh information from our research design team but uh I'll get to that in a moment. Um , so current voice recognition starts up to about eighty speech samples , um and basically you record your own verbal labels c and connect them to the remote control. Now our design team , research team , has been able to uh set up a system in which uh you can teach the remote control voice c recognition system to respond to um  with standard responses. Like you could say good morning uh remote control and it'll say in a sexy female voice , Good morning Joe. Um.

In fact we already have this for a coffee maker line


Um , so the following are a bunch of different uh interface uh concepts. Uh voice recognition , we we um actually have some new uh information from our research design team but uh I'll get to that in a moment. Um , so current voice recognition starts up to about eighty speech samples , um and basically you record your own verbal labels c and connect them to the remote control. Now our design team , research team , has been able to uh set up a system in which uh you can teach the remote control voice c recognition system to respond to um  with standard responses. Like you could say good morning uh remote control and it'll say in a sexy female voice , Good morning Joe. Um.

In fact we already have this for a coffee maker line

Lot of single people on the um on the re on the remote control research team


In fact we already have this for a coffee maker line

Lot of single people on the um on the re on the remote control research team


Lot of single people on the um on the re on the remote control research team


Um , another concept is what uh Apple has come up with , the spinning wheel with uh L_C_ display like on the uh iPod


Um and then we have the scroll button with integrated push-button , kind of like a modern  a bit bulky , a bit crazy ,


Um and then we have the scroll button with integrated push-button , kind of like a modern  a bit bulky , a bit crazy ,

I don't think that's we're necessarily going for.


I don't think that's we're necessarily going for.


I don't think that's we're necessarily going for.

And uh some special components , uh ideas like uh blocking , having the ability to block channels from your  for your children um and uh dedicated buttons for for commonly used uh channels and even uh ideas like secured or hidden programming but uh I  again if we go with touch screen I don't think that's a big issue. Um and uh this is kind of the uh the big daddy of remote controls here.


And uh some special components , uh ideas like uh blocking , having the ability to block channels from your  for your children um and uh dedicated buttons for for commonly used uh channels and even uh ideas like secured or hidden programming but uh I  again if we go with touch screen I don't think that's a big issue. Um and uh this is kind of the uh the big daddy of remote controls here.

Uh the jumbo universal remote control is almost impossible to misplace or lose.


Uh the jumbo universal remote control is almost impossible to misplace or lose.

Um , again probably not what we're going for


Uh the jumbo universal remote control is almost impossible to misplace or lose.

Um , again probably not what we're going for

so I  I mean my ideas here and kind of where I think we're heading is something slightly larger than a regular iPod uh with a hard cla c uh plastic casing


Um , again probably not what we're going for

so I  I mean my ideas here and kind of where I think we're heading is something slightly larger than a regular iPod uh with a hard cla c uh plastic casing


Um , again probably not what we're going for

so I  I mean my ideas here and kind of where I think we're heading is something slightly larger than a regular iPod uh with a hard cla c uh plastic casing

although I think some of the suggestions we've come up with are definitely uh very good ideas. Uh changeable casings uh  our design team was possibly talking about including one extra face plate with the package to kind of set the idea that you can change it and you can try changing it


so I  I mean my ideas here and kind of where I think we're heading is something slightly larger than a regular iPod uh with a hard cla c uh plastic casing

although I think some of the suggestions we've come up with are definitely uh very good ideas. Uh changeable casings uh  our design team was possibly talking about including one extra face plate with the package to kind of set the idea that you can change it and you can try changing it


although I think some of the suggestions we've come up with are definitely uh very good ideas. Uh changeable casings uh  our design team was possibly talking about including one extra face plate with the package to kind of set the idea that you can change it and you can try changing it

and kind of get used to thinking about maybe buying another one which can add value to our uh bottom line. Uh touch screen interface , um possibly having go-to buttons being uh stuck into the system so those don't move away from the screen , uh , the important ones like power , volume and jump between channels. Um , and of course our voice command system which I've talked a little bit about already


and kind of get used to thinking about maybe buying another one which can add value to our uh bottom line. Uh touch screen interface , um possibly having go-to buttons being uh stuck into the system so those don't move away from the screen , uh , the important ones like power , volume and jump between channels. Um , and of course our voice command system which I've talked a little bit about already

and uh the use of recognisable colours and shapes to aid recognition of the features um that are around so red for power , um arrows for different volume ups and downs and channels ups and downs and what not.


and uh the use of recognisable colours and shapes to aid recognition of the features um that are around so red for power , um arrows for different volume ups and downs and channels ups and downs and what not.

And uh perhaps even adding in some stupid little jokes with the voice recognition idea like perh mm for instance my toastie maker that I got from my bank


And uh perhaps even adding in some stupid little jokes with the voice recognition idea like perh mm for instance my toastie maker that I got from my bank


Great , wonderful Ron , cool. Lot of good ideas , good facts to have.


Great , wonderful Ron , cool. Lot of good ideas , good facts to have.

That's what they need , it's like a little dongle it just sticks up this further so you don't have to stand up every time , just connect it , my kingdom.


That's what they need , it's like a little dongle it just sticks up this further so you don't have to stand up every time , just connect it , my kingdom.


That's what they need , it's like a little dongle it just sticks up this further so you don't have to stand up every time , just connect it , my kingdom.

Right so , good to know all that stuff , thanks guys , um.  Now we kind of have to come to some decisions , um , I figure we can just go down the line and all three of us can have a chat about it. Um. Based on what Nathan presented as far as the um  various costs and benefits um I think , I dunno , what do you guys think about the touch screen at this point ?


Right so , good to know all that stuff , thanks guys , um.  Now we kind of have to come to some decisions , um , I figure we can just go down the line and all three of us can have a chat about it. Um. Based on what Nathan presented as far as the um  various costs and benefits um I think , I dunno , what do you guys think about the touch screen at this point ?

I think it's our most marketable feature just because it's so new and it's something that is showing up in other places.


Right so , good to know all that stuff , thanks guys , um.  Now we kind of have to come to some decisions , um , I figure we can just go down the line and all three of us can have a chat about it. Um. Based on what Nathan presented as far as the um  various costs and benefits um I think , I dunno , what do you guys think about the touch screen at this point ?

I think it's our most marketable feature just because it's so new and it's something that is showing up in other places.

But can we really afford it 'cause it looks like they would be , that would be a really main cost source then


I think it's our most marketable feature just because it's so new and it's something that is showing up in other places.

But can we really afford it 'cause it looks like they would be , that would be a really main cost source then


But can we really afford it 'cause it looks like they would be , that would be a really main cost source then


But can we really afford it 'cause it looks like they would be , that would be a really main cost source then

My estimate is that in order to incorporate touch screen technology it's gonna cost us upwards of seventeen fifty Euro per remote ,


My estimate is that in order to incorporate touch screen technology it's gonna cost us upwards of seventeen fifty Euro per remote ,


Oh you guys are always the dampers on these projects.


And our goal was to be under twelve fifty or we have to be under twelve fifty ?


And our goal was to be under twelve fifty or we have to be under twelve fifty ?

I thought there was some flexibility with that.


I thought there was some flexibility with that.


I thought there was some flexibility with that.

There is , it's just , it is a question of  and how much ca o does that mean we're gonna have to increase the price to make money.


There is , it's just , it is a question of  and how much ca o does that mean we're gonna have to increase the price to make money.

Um , from twelve fifty if we d wanna get our fift uh hundred per cent profit margin  um that would mean selling it from twenty five. If you multiply seventeen fifty by two that's thirty five.


Um , from twelve fifty if we d wanna get our fift uh hundred per cent profit margin  um that would mean selling it from twenty five. If you multiply seventeen fifty by two that's thirty five.


Um , from twelve fifty if we d wanna get our fift uh hundred per cent profit margin  um that would mean selling it from twenty five. If you multiply seventeen fifty by two that's thirty five.

Where do you guys come up with these numbers ?


Where do you guys come up with these numbers ?


Though I think that's what people would pay for ,


Though I think that's what people would pay for ,

I mean if you're gonna pay for an expensive high class remote , you're gonna expect it to do something


Though I think that's what people would pay for ,

I mean if you're gonna pay for an expensive high class remote , you're gonna expect it to do something

It is the new  it would be in a class of its own.


I mean if you're gonna pay for an expensive high class remote , you're gonna expect it to do something

It is the new  it would be in a class of its own.


It is the new  it would be in a class of its own.

And that's  to be fair the um the per cent of the market  we're not going for mass any you know , mass sales anyway , we're gonna make  I mean we we're not talking about selling eight zillion of these things , we just couldn't , not for twenty-five Euros ,


And that's  to be fair the um the per cent of the market  we're not going for mass any you know , mass sales anyway , we're gonna make  I mean we we're not talking about selling eight zillion of these things , we just couldn't , not for twenty-five Euros ,

so we could probably maybe shrink the profit margins rather than selling for twenty five , sell 'em for thirty , but that's something that we can have finance deal with. Um , I say that we provisionally go with the touch screen


so we could probably maybe shrink the profit margins rather than selling for twenty five , sell 'em for thirty , but that's something that we can have finance deal with. Um , I say that we provisionally go with the touch screen

or wh y wh what was your thought on the matter Ron ?


so we could probably maybe shrink the profit margins rather than selling for twenty five , sell 'em for thirty , but that's something that we can have finance deal with. Um , I say that we provisionally go with the touch screen

or wh y wh what was your thought on the matter Ron ?

I'm thinking that's uh definitely a good idea and I also think that we could probably come up with some sort of a cheaper uh means to to go about this kind of production , my my team in the uh  on the third floor suggested that uh


or wh y wh what was your thought on the matter Ron ?

I'm thinking that's uh definitely a good idea and I also think that we could probably come up with some sort of a cheaper uh means to to go about this kind of production , my my team in the uh  on the third floor suggested that uh


or wh y wh what was your thought on the matter Ron ?

I'm thinking that's uh definitely a good idea and I also think that we could probably come up with some sort of a cheaper uh means to to go about this kind of production , my my team in the uh  on the third floor suggested that uh

Right. Well and we can look into this other manufacturing option , and maybe we can get 'em somewhere else cheaper.


I'm thinking that's uh definitely a good idea and I also think that we could probably come up with some sort of a cheaper uh means to to go about this kind of production , my my team in the uh  on the third floor suggested that uh

Right. Well and we can look into this other manufacturing option , and maybe we can get 'em somewhere else cheaper.


Right. Well and we can look into this other manufacturing option , and maybe we can get 'em somewhere else cheaper.


We could initially go with what we have and if we can find them cheaper later on


We could initially go with what we have and if we can find them cheaper later on

Right. It's a starting point anyway , so.


We could initially go with what we have and if we can find them cheaper later on

Right. It's a starting point anyway , so.

No we could have a s very simple touch screen , you know , there's always the opportunity , if it's gonna be about the size of the iPod or whatever , you know , w we  yeah , I guess we can play around with it a bit. Alright , let's let's say that okay so the touch screen will be our  um  our main selling point here.


Right. It's a starting point anyway , so.

No we could have a s very simple touch screen , you know , there's always the opportunity , if it's gonna be about the size of the iPod or whatever , you know , w we  yeah , I guess we can play around with it a bit. Alright , let's let's say that okay so the touch screen will be our  um  our main selling point here.


No we could have a s very simple touch screen , you know , there's always the opportunity , if it's gonna be about the size of the iPod or whatever , you know , w we  yeah , I guess we can play around with it a bit. Alright , let's let's say that okay so the touch screen will be our  um  our main selling point here.

I mean I think that we really have two main selling points , I think that our casing and the voice recognition


I mean I think that we really have two main selling points , I think that our casing and the voice recognition

Yeah 'cause with voice recognition  I mean really this is pretty bells and whistles kinda remote.


Yeah 'cause with voice recognition  I mean really this is pretty bells and whistles kinda remote.

I mean ,  if if we're looking at bottom line , now we're looking at upping the cost to seventeen to get the touch screen on ,


I mean ,  if if we're looking at bottom line , now we're looking at upping the cost to seventeen to get the touch screen on ,

I think we might have to drop the voice rec.


I mean ,  if if we're looking at bottom line , now we're looking at upping the cost to seventeen to get the touch screen on ,

I think we might have to drop the voice rec.

I think we'd have to decide between 'em definitely.


I think we might have to drop the voice rec.

I think we'd have to decide between 'em definitely.

To be honest , we have the capa we have the design in-house ,


I think we'd have to decide between 'em definitely.

To be honest , we have the capa we have the design in-house ,


To be honest , we have the capa we have the design in-house ,

I mean we've we've come up with this , with this new voice


I mean we've we've come up with this , with this new voice

we're using it for our coffee machines already.


we're using it for our coffee machines already.

I can pass you on that email from my uh guy in uh  guy down the hall. Sounds good.


we're using it for our coffee machines already.

I can pass you on that email from my uh guy in uh  guy down the hall. Sounds good.

Hmm. What do you think on it Nathan ? About the voice rec ?


I can pass you on that email from my uh guy in uh  guy down the hall. Sounds good.

Hmm. What do you think on it Nathan ? About the voice rec ?

I think if we  we do both the  obviously production costs are going to go way up um but it does put it into  it'd become the Rolls Royce of remote controls basically. It would be very nice.


Hmm. What do you think on it Nathan ? About the voice rec ?

I think if we  we do both the  obviously production costs are going to go way up um but it does put it into  it'd become the Rolls Royce of remote controls basically. It would be very nice.

I mean we we have to r reflect back on what our market research did say.


I think if we  we do both the  obviously production costs are going to go way up um but it does put it into  it'd become the Rolls Royce of remote controls basically. It would be very nice.

I mean we we have to r reflect back on what our market research did say.

Right and they said they wanted voice recognition. Course , maybe they hadn't thought of this whole touch screen option , but definitely we know the market is there for voice recognition so to say we have the technology and we're not gonna use it even though we know it'll sell is a call I don't think I can give the highs ups.


I mean we we have to r reflect back on what our market research did say.

Right and they said they wanted voice recognition. Course , maybe they hadn't thought of this whole touch screen option , but definitely we know the market is there for voice recognition so to say we have the technology and we're not gonna use it even though we know it'll sell is a call I don't think I can give the highs ups.


I mean we we have to r reflect back on what our market research did say.

Right and they said they wanted voice recognition. Course , maybe they hadn't thought of this whole touch screen option , but definitely we know the market is there for voice recognition so to say we have the technology and we're not gonna use it even though we know it'll sell is a call I don't think I can give the highs ups.

Like really I can't go in and say no we're gonna just ignore everything we know.


Right and they said they wanted voice recognition. Course , maybe they hadn't thought of this whole touch screen option , but definitely we know the market is there for voice recognition so to say we have the technology and we're not gonna use it even though we know it'll sell is a call I don't think I can give the highs ups.

Like really I can't go in and say no we're gonna just ignore everything we know.


Like really I can't go in and say no we're gonna just ignore everything we know.


Like really I can't go in and say no we're gonna just ignore everything we know.

I can't see how it wouldn't , I mean , there's you know the old aphorism , you can have it fast , you can have it cheap or you can have it quality , pick two of three. You know , you can't you can't have all three.


I can't see how it wouldn't , I mean , there's you know the old aphorism , you can have it fast , you can have it cheap or you can have it quality , pick two of three. You know , you can't you can't have all three.


I can't see how it wouldn't , I mean , there's you know the old aphorism , you can have it fast , you can have it cheap or you can have it quality , pick two of three. You know , you can't you can't have all three.

Yeah , 'cause you  you just upping the number of chips that you need to deal with each different function.


Yeah , 'cause you  you just upping the number of chips that you need to deal with each different function.


Yeah , 'cause you  you just upping the number of chips that you need to deal with each different function.

Well if we're gonna pick betwe e alright so we have to pick between one of the two. Um. Otherwise , yeah , we just  it just becomes cost prohibitive. What  which , which do we suspect we should hold o we should hold on to ?


Well if we're gonna pick betwe e alright so we have to pick between one of the two. Um. Otherwise , yeah , we just  it just becomes cost prohibitive. What  which , which do we suspect we should hold o we should hold on to ?

Well , we already have research backing voice recognition as you know fiscally solvent. But uh I I I personally would tend to another direction but if that's what's gonna sell I think that's what we need to go with and maybe we can table this touch screen for our next model.


Well , we already have research backing voice recognition as you know fiscally solvent. But uh I I I personally would tend to another direction but if that's what's gonna sell I think that's what we need to go with and maybe we can table this touch screen for our next model.

I think the voice recognition is simpler , we already have the  all the technology in-house , it's ready to go , it's packaged , it's


I think the voice recognition is simpler , we already have the  all the technology in-house , it's ready to go , it's packaged , it's

What does the cost look like Ron ? Is it cheaper to do the V_R_ or to do the uh touch screen ?


What does the cost look like Ron ? Is it cheaper to do the V_R_ or to do the uh touch screen ?


Um , this is just off the top of my head keep in mind , but I think the voice recognition would  they're both mm they're both gonna push the costs up , but um , since we already have the technology in-house for the voice recognition


Um , this is just off the top of my head keep in mind , but I think the voice recognition would  they're both mm they're both gonna push the costs up , but um , since we already have the technology in-house for the voice recognition

we're not gonna have to do as much design work


we're not gonna have to do as much design work

and sometimes the design work is what push the costs up , if you know what I mean.


and sometimes the design work is what push the costs up , if you know what I mean.


and sometimes the design work is what push the costs up , if you know what I mean.

Um , I definitely have to agree with that last comment.


Um , I definitely have to agree with that last comment.

And we're still not  then we don't have to deal with this battery issue nearly as much either ,


Um , I definitely have to agree with that last comment.

And we're still not  then we don't have to deal with this battery issue nearly as much either ,

we can stick with what we've already got. In a lot other ways too.


And we're still not  then we don't have to deal with this battery issue nearly as much either ,

we can stick with what we've already got. In a lot other ways too.

Okay. So I'm getting  alright so more or less you guys think that o o of the two of 'em , the voice recognition will be better. Okay.


we can stick with what we've already got. In a lot other ways too.

Okay. So I'm getting  alright so more or less you guys think that o o of the two of 'em , the voice recognition will be better. Okay.


Okay. So I'm getting  alright so more or less you guys think that o o of the two of 'em , the voice recognition will be better. Okay.

which for right now  we can have it on the market sooner which is all in all our best option.


which for right now  we can have it on the market sooner which is all in all our best option.


which for right now  we can have it on the market sooner which is all in all our best option.

We will omit the touch screen in favour of voice recognition.


We will omit the touch screen in favour of voice recognition.

So and when are we gonna have basic prototypes coming up next that's  you guys's next step right ?


We will omit the touch screen in favour of voice recognition.

So and when are we gonna have basic prototypes coming up next that's  you guys's next step right ?

Yeah , well we'll we'll sic we'll sort out what it  what  f what else we're gonna talk about for the prototype


So and when are we gonna have basic prototypes coming up next that's  you guys's next step right ?

Yeah , well we'll we'll sic we'll sort out what it  what  f what else we're gonna talk about for the prototype


Yeah , well we'll we'll sic we'll sort out what it  what  f what else we're gonna talk about for the prototype

but yeah that's our next step , it'll be a developing of prototype.


but yeah that's our next step , it'll be a developing of prototype.


but yeah that's our next step , it'll be a developing of prototype.

Are we going to talk now about um the materials that we're gonna use for the case and all those things ?


but yeah that's our next step , it'll be a developing of prototype.

Are we going to talk now about um the materials that we're gonna use for the case and all those things ?

Yes. We'll just run through it yeah , yeah , um.


Are we going to talk now about um the materials that we're gonna use for the case and all those things ?

Yes. We'll just run through it yeah , yeah , um.


Yes. We'll just run through it yeah , yeah , um.

You discussed either a lithium or a solar power. Would the solar power be enough to fuel a voice recognition ? Or this kinesthetic one , would that be enough to fuel a voice recognition remote control ?


You discussed either a lithium or a solar power. Would the solar power be enough to fuel a voice recognition ? Or this kinesthetic one , would that be enough to fuel a voice recognition remote control ?

Um , the solar power definitely would be but I think just to keep people from getting annoyed , 'cause sometimes solar power fails and there's no way round that , we should install a small backup battery.


Um , the solar power definitely would be but I think just to keep people from getting annoyed , 'cause sometimes solar power fails and there's no way round that , we should install a small backup battery.

Just to cover those moments when for whatever reason , the remote hasn't been exposed to


Just to cover those moments when for whatever reason , the remote hasn't been exposed to

Well what of people with like the T_V_ in their basement ,


Just to cover those moments when for whatever reason , the remote hasn't been exposed to

Well what of people with like the T_V_ in their basement ,

like what if  wha we can't guarantee sunlight everywhere so having a secondary source is probably


Well what of people with like the T_V_ in their basement ,

like what if  wha we can't guarantee sunlight everywhere so having a secondary source is probably

It's true. Yeah , it works about the same as a solar powered calculator ,


like what if  wha we can't guarantee sunlight everywhere so having a secondary source is probably

It's true. Yeah , it works about the same as a solar powered calculator ,

and you know how those those don't really require that much light ,


It's true. Yeah , it works about the same as a solar powered calculator ,

and you know how those those don't really require that much light ,


and you know how those those don't really require that much light ,

um , but obviously a little more light than a calculator , but we're not talking about a lot of light. Doesn't have to be out taking a sunbath for a few hours a day or anything.


um , but obviously a little more light than a calculator , but we're not talking about a lot of light. Doesn't have to be out taking a sunbath for a few hours a day or anything.


I'm willing to agree with everything that's been said.


I'm willing to agree with everything that's been said.

Uh I have to say though that um another idea's come up in my head. If we're really not uh handling the remote control to a great extent we could possibly get away from the idea of having a hand-held remote control and maybe kind of have a round remote control that kind of looks like a paperweight or something like that , kind of a sleek little uh neat thing that sits on your table or something.


Uh I have to say though that um another idea's come up in my head. If we're really not uh handling the remote control to a great extent we could possibly get away from the idea of having a hand-held remote control and maybe kind of have a round remote control that kind of looks like a paperweight or something like that , kind of a sleek little uh neat thing that sits on your table or something.


Why , why moving away from hand-held , why ?


Why , why moving away from hand-held , why ?

Well if you don't need to pick it up it could kind of be a selling point.


Well if you don't need to pick it up it could kind of be a selling point.

I if it's got voice recognition it can be technically anywhere in your room and still do its job.


Well if you don't need to pick it up it could kind of be a selling point.

I if it's got voice recognition it can be technically anywhere in your room and still do its job.

Hmm. Do you think people that are  people that buy a remote , are they always gonna wanna use the voice recognition or is it just something that they do sometimes.


Well if you don't need to pick it up it could kind of be a selling point.

I if it's got voice recognition it can be technically anywhere in your room and still do its job.

Hmm. Do you think people that are  people that buy a remote , are they always gonna wanna use the voice recognition or is it just something that they do sometimes.

True , and i probabl I think we're banking on selling it to more than just voice recognition people , like we want it to work fundamentally as a basic manual too ,


I if it's got voice recognition it can be technically anywhere in your room and still do its job.

Hmm. Do you think people that are  people that buy a remote , are they always gonna wanna use the voice recognition or is it just something that they do sometimes.

True , and i probabl I think we're banking on selling it to more than just voice recognition people , like we want it to work fundamentally as a basic manual too ,

Well we have to have buttons on it too as well.


Hmm. Do you think people that are  people that buy a remote , are they always gonna wanna use the voice recognition or is it just something that they do sometimes.

True , and i probabl I think we're banking on selling it to more than just voice recognition people , like we want it to work fundamentally as a basic manual too ,

Well we have to have buttons on it too as well.


True , and i probabl I think we're banking on selling it to more than just voice recognition people , like we want it to work fundamentally as a basic manual too ,

Well we have to have buttons on it too as well.

But that's done , that's no bother I mean if you look at the catalogue from places like with sharper image or whatever you know they might have  or like um  who is it , Apple makes these really pretentious speakers with the th sub-woofers you know like clear and glass and you know


Well we have to have buttons on it too as well.

But that's done , that's no bother I mean if you look at the catalogue from places like with sharper image or whatever you know they might have  or like um  who is it , Apple makes these really pretentious speakers with the th sub-woofers you know like clear and glass and you know


But that's done , that's no bother I mean if you look at the catalogue from places like with sharper image or whatever you know they might have  or like um  who is it , Apple makes these really pretentious speakers with the th sub-woofers you know like clear and glass and you know

and then they got these little pyramidal type of um speakers.


and then they got these little pyramidal type of um speakers.


and then they got these little pyramidal type of um speakers.

I mean , why not have a little rounded kind of thing ,


I mean , why not have a little rounded kind of thing ,


I mean , why not have a little rounded kind of thing ,

it could still have the basic buttons on it. Um , 'cause we're going for basic functionality primarily as well.


it could still have the basic buttons on it. Um , 'cause we're going for basic functionality primarily as well.

And maybe a menu button and so forth , you know um use a channel button to scroll through the menu d if they want to record programmes or whatever you know I mean we can sort that out.


it could still have the basic buttons on it. Um , 'cause we're going for basic functionality primarily as well.

And maybe a menu button and so forth , you know um use a channel button to scroll through the menu d if they want to record programmes or whatever you know I mean we can sort that out.

I think , I think you're on to something


And maybe a menu button and so forth , you know um use a channel button to scroll through the menu d if they want to record programmes or whatever you know I mean we can sort that out.

I think , I think you're on to something


I think , I think you're on to something

because we need to escape the traditional shape of a remote. Maybe something that looks nice on a table is  would be good , even though  and hand-held the same time.


because we need to escape the traditional shape of a remote. Maybe something that looks nice on a table is  would be good , even though  and hand-held the same time.


because we need to escape the traditional shape of a remote. Maybe something that looks nice on a table is  would be good , even though  and hand-held the same time.

I think it's all about following Apple's lead on a lot of these things.


because we need to escape the traditional shape of a remote. Maybe something that looks nice on a table is  would be good , even though  and hand-held the same time.

I think it's all about following Apple's lead on a lot of these things.

Yeah I'm thinking of the airport portal ,


I think it's all about following Apple's lead on a lot of these things.

Yeah I'm thinking of the airport portal ,


Yeah I'm thinking of the airport portal ,

you know like that little pod looking thing ?


you know like that little pod looking thing ?


you know like that little pod looking thing ?

Yeah , I mean a nice  although we do um wh uh is  I'm recalling that she mentioned that we n need to get away from the surgical white kind of brushed aluminium thing


Yeah , I mean a nice  although we do um wh uh is  I'm recalling that she mentioned that we n need to get away from the surgical white kind of brushed aluminium thing


but you could have a very tasteful um wood coloured or earth tone kind of um


but you could have a very tasteful um wood coloured or earth tone kind of um

That would be kinda neat. Terracotta bowl or something.


but you could have a very tasteful um wood coloured or earth tone kind of um

That would be kinda neat. Terracotta bowl or something.

Still , I mean , yeah , along those lines.


That would be kinda neat. Terracotta bowl or something.

Still , I mean , yeah , along those lines.

Yeah I like that , I like that idea a lot. Um , let's see what we can do as far as that goes. And the uh the material like the plastics and so forth , we were discussing that being uh  using like a rubber kind of softer feel ,


Still , I mean , yeah , along those lines.

Yeah I like that , I like that idea a lot. Um , let's see what we can do as far as that goes. And the uh the material like the plastics and so forth , we were discussing that being uh  using like a rubber kind of softer feel ,


Yeah I like that , I like that idea a lot. Um , let's see what we can do as far as that goes. And the uh the material like the plastics and so forth , we were discussing that being uh  using like a rubber kind of softer feel ,


li lik if you feel the the tip on this pen it's a bit  gives just a bit. You know


li lik if you feel the the tip on this pen it's a bit  gives just a bit. You know

something where it's uh a a more advanced f form of plastic that has some kind of a tactile response to it.


something where it's uh a a more advanced f form of plastic that has some kind of a tactile response to it.

Yeah , which is the next big thing , so that's not gonna hurt us either.


Yeah , which is the next big thing , so that's not gonna hurt us either.

Yeah let's see if we can do a squishy non-remote control-looking remote control.


Yeah , which is the next big thing , so that's not gonna hurt us either.

Yeah let's see if we can do a squishy non-remote control-looking remote control.

But to be fair , yeah , I mean , you just c you could just put it  literally put it on the the ni the coffee table next to the telly and say volume up.


Yeah let's see if we can do a squishy non-remote control-looking remote control.

But to be fair , yeah , I mean , you just c you could just put it  literally put it on the the ni the coffee table next to the telly and say volume up.


Yeah let's see if we can do a squishy non-remote control-looking remote control.

But to be fair , yeah , I mean , you just c you could just put it  literally put it on the the ni the coffee table next to the telly and say volume up.

Yeah I like it , I like the idea , that's good.


But to be fair , yeah , I mean , you just c you could just put it  literally put it on the the ni the coffee table next to the telly and say volume up.

Yeah I like it , I like the idea , that's good.


Yeah I like it , I like the idea , that's good.

Um and we've sorted of discussed costs ,  um. I guess we'll a that's gonna be uh a thing , if we run a bit over-budget , that might be okay , um.


Yeah I like it , I like the idea , that's good.

Um and we've sorted of discussed costs ,  um. I guess we'll a that's gonna be uh a thing , if we run a bit over-budget , that might be okay , um.

Sorry about the uh lack of information on cost , I just haven't been provided that information by our manufacturers


Um and we've sorted of discussed costs ,  um. I guess we'll a that's gonna be uh a thing , if we run a bit over-budget , that might be okay , um.

Sorry about the uh lack of information on cost , I just haven't been provided that information by our manufacturers


Um and we've sorted of discussed costs ,  um. I guess we'll a that's gonna be uh a thing , if we run a bit over-budget , that might be okay , um.

Sorry about the uh lack of information on cost , I just haven't been provided that information by our manufacturers

We'll have more of an idea when the prototype  have more of a


Sorry about the uh lack of information on cost , I just haven't been provided that information by our manufacturers

We'll have more of an idea when the prototype  have more of a


We'll have more of an idea when the prototype  have more of a

we'll have more of an idea later on. Um. And we just yeah go from there.  Um , so


We'll have more of an idea when the prototype  have more of a

we'll have more of an idea later on. Um. And we just yeah go from there.  Um , so

we've revisited the touch screen and more or less ruled that out , um , I think so we're more or less con we  wh wh we're more or less in agreement that we want to have a um  a simple kind of function , you know , not too complex.


we'll have more of an idea later on. Um. And we just yeah go from there.  Um , so

we've revisited the touch screen and more or less ruled that out , um , I think so we're more or less con we  wh wh we're more or less in agreement that we want to have a um  a simple kind of function , you know , not too complex.

Mm. Right. Well when the majority of people are only using the most primary functions on a daily basis , although I'm not saying we should completely rule out major functions , they should be secondary , at least if not functionally then visually , like those shouldn't be


we've revisited the touch screen and more or less ruled that out , um , I think so we're more or less con we  wh wh we're more or less in agreement that we want to have a um  a simple kind of function , you know , not too complex.

Mm. Right. Well when the majority of people are only using the most primary functions on a daily basis , although I'm not saying we should completely rule out major functions , they should be secondary , at least if not functionally then visually , like those shouldn't be


Mm. Right. Well when the majority of people are only using the most primary functions on a daily basis , although I'm not saying we should completely rule out major functions , they should be secondary , at least if not functionally then visually , like those shouldn't be


If , if we're not going the touch-screen route then we can um just incorporate maybe something that folds out


If , if we're not going the touch-screen route then we can um just incorporate maybe something that folds out

like what you often see on these kinds of remotes is the most basic functions up here


like what you often see on these kinds of remotes is the most basic functions up here


like what you often see on these kinds of remotes is the most basic functions up here

and something that slides down to reveal the you know more complicated things.


and something that slides down to reveal the you know more complicated things.


and something that slides down to reveal the you know more complicated things.

Well and do we wanna consider like an iPod screen which isn't a touch screen but you're still scrolling through menu options , in p


Well and do we wanna consider like an iPod screen which isn't a touch screen but you're still scrolling through menu options , in p

Think then we're hitting our cost issue again.


Think then we're hitting our cost issue again.

we've also got the the me the thing of ,


we've also got the the me the thing of ,


we've also got the the me the thing of ,

if we're gonna have a non-remote-looking remote , how do we  yeah.


if we're gonna have a non-remote-looking remote , how do we  yeah.


we could do a slide or a compartment , you know , like if it  say it's a lit little vaguely ovoidal type of thing , it'd be easy to have a compartment in there.


we could do a slide or a compartment , you know , like if it  say it's a lit little vaguely ovoidal type of thing , it'd be easy to have a compartment in there.

Or you know , a b a b a a series of you know three or four buttons with a menu button and then a side an s up and down type of thing , like on um  like on a D_V_D_ player. You know you see the modern D_V_D_ players'll just have um a menu button on the side and then four buttons around them


Or you know , a b a b a a series of you know three or four buttons with a menu button and then a side an s up and down type of thing , like on um  like on a D_V_D_ player. You know you see the modern D_V_D_ players'll just have um a menu button on the side and then four buttons around them

and you can just kind of manoeuvre through the menu like that.


and you can just kind of manoeuvre through the menu like that.


and you can just kind of manoeuvre through the menu like that.

So are we gonna  are we talking  we need to figure out what kind of buttons we're going to use , are we going to use scroll buttons ? Rubber buttons ? Um


So are we gonna  are we talking  we need to figure out what kind of buttons we're going to use , are we going to use scroll buttons ? Rubber buttons ? Um

Well it seems like  I dunno it seems to me that we could just do the um  stick with the rubber 'cause since we're probably gonna be using some kind of um  rubber for the outside case


Well it seems like  I dunno it seems to me that we could just do the um  stick with the rubber 'cause since we're probably gonna be using some kind of um  rubber for the outside case


I think to a certain extent we have to stick with uh kind of uh a little bit traditional in terms of the buttons and then and then make our unique feature our casing and what not and our voice command.


I think to a certain extent we have to stick with uh kind of uh a little bit traditional in terms of the buttons and then and then make our unique feature our casing and what not and our voice command.

Right. Mm. Well no it's basic just like four directions that are  that can use as menu or channel and volume or however you wanna do it , are really versatile and everybody's already got them to some extent on the remotes they already own so it's not like we're dealing with everybody relearning things 'cause that's not something anybody's gonna wanna buy a new for.


I think to a certain extent we have to stick with uh kind of uh a little bit traditional in terms of the buttons and then and then make our unique feature our casing and what not and our voice command.

Right. Mm. Well no it's basic just like four directions that are  that can use as menu or channel and volume or however you wanna do it , are really versatile and everybody's already got them to some extent on the remotes they already own so it's not like we're dealing with everybody relearning things 'cause that's not something anybody's gonna wanna buy a new for.

Mm 'kay , um.  We've already kind of covered this as well. That seems to be selling  um and we we've more or less agreed that we want to kar target this youth market , um.


Right. Mm. Well no it's basic just like four directions that are  that can use as menu or channel and volume or however you wanna do it , are really versatile and everybody's already got them to some extent on the remotes they already own so it's not like we're dealing with everybody relearning things 'cause that's not something anybody's gonna wanna buy a new for.

Mm 'kay , um.  We've already kind of covered this as well. That seems to be selling  um and we we've more or less agreed that we want to kar target this youth market , um.


Mm 'kay , um.  We've already kind of covered this as well. That seems to be selling  um and we we've more or less agreed that we want to kar target this youth market , um.

Especially now with eighteen to thirty five year olds being such a large quantity of the population.


Mm 'kay , um.  We've already kind of covered this as well. That seems to be selling  um and we we've more or less agreed that we want to kar target this youth market , um.

Especially now with eighteen to thirty five year olds being such a large quantity of the population.

Right , particularly in technological fields ,


Especially now with eighteen to thirty five year olds being such a large quantity of the population.

Right , particularly in technological fields ,


Right , particularly in technological fields ,

Okay.  Um. Yeah alright , well , more or less covered what we need to cover I think fi an an any final thoughts before we think about doing the protot moving on to the prototype.


Okay.  Um. Yeah alright , well , more or less covered what we need to cover I think fi an an any final thoughts before we think about doing the protot moving on to the prototype.


Uh. Oh it wasn't in the way but  yeah , whatever.


Uh. Oh it wasn't in the way but  yeah , whatever.

The um , yeah okay I was just gonna assign tasks in the next b anyth any oth


The um , yeah okay I was just gonna assign tasks in the next b anyth any oth


The um , yeah okay I was just gonna assign tasks in the next b anyth any oth

any other final thoughts before we go ahead and


any other final thoughts before we go ahead and


have we decided that we are gonna go with different style cases for different people ?


have we decided that we are gonna go with different style cases for different people ?

Or are we just going to go with one ?..It's very , it's very hard thing to predict because you have different cases


Or are we just going to go with one ?..It's very , it's very hard thing to predict because you have different cases

and that might open up your market a little bit obviously , but if you have just one case and it doesn't go very well  mm.


and that might open up your market a little bit obviously , but if you have just one case and it doesn't go very well  mm.


but obviously having more cases also costs more so


but obviously having more cases also costs more so

Well then again colours wouldn't be so hard to do , you could have uh a , you know , a um uh kind of a natural wood colour , like a stained wood and um , I don't know , olive green or something.


Well then again colours wouldn't be so hard to do , you could have uh a , you know , a um uh kind of a natural wood colour , like a stained wood and um , I don't know , olive green or something.

That wouldn't be so much of a problem to incorporate into the colour of the  thing.


That wouldn't be so much of a problem to incorporate into the colour of the  thing.

And again copying iMac's kind of  for iPod Mac Apple's uh colour scheme.


That wouldn't be so much of a problem to incorporate into the colour of the  thing.

And again copying iMac's kind of  for iPod Mac Apple's uh colour scheme.

Yeah , I think that's probably a good id okay so let's work on  uh multiple case colours. But yeah , stick with the same kind of kinda  yeah , the same basic non-remote kind of remote design. Cool. Alright , so we'll have the next meeting about half an hour , um. I want the uh  I'd like  Nathan , I'd like you to work on just the basic look and feel , what can we accomplish , um , given these parameters that we're just gonna sort of have this kind of uh non-remote remote. Um , what are our broad constraints before we deve design a prototype.


And again copying iMac's kind of  for iPod Mac Apple's uh colour scheme.

Yeah , I think that's probably a good id okay so let's work on  uh multiple case colours. But yeah , stick with the same kind of kinda  yeah , the same basic non-remote kind of remote design. Cool. Alright , so we'll have the next meeting about half an hour , um. I want the uh  I'd like  Nathan , I'd like you to work on just the basic look and feel , what can we accomplish , um , given these parameters that we're just gonna sort of have this kind of uh non-remote remote. Um , what are our broad constraints before we deve design a prototype.


Yeah , I think that's probably a good id okay so let's work on  uh multiple case colours. But yeah , stick with the same kind of kinda  yeah , the same basic non-remote kind of remote design. Cool. Alright , so we'll have the next meeting about half an hour , um. I want the uh  I'd like  Nathan , I'd like you to work on just the basic look and feel , what can we accomplish , um , given these parameters that we're just gonna sort of have this kind of uh non-remote remote. Um , what are our broad constraints before we deve design a prototype.

And um Ron if you can figure out how probably best to lay out this idea of this simple design with the voice recognition built in and also this kind of drop down or s on the side kind of menu options simple. Somehow work out how we can get this all s in the same place. Um , and if you can check product evaluation with m some pilots and stuff. Um I need you guys to work together on making a prototype ,  um  using um  prototype building materials um .


Yeah , I think that's probably a good id okay so let's work on  uh multiple case colours. But yeah , stick with the same kind of kinda  yeah , the same basic non-remote kind of remote design. Cool. Alright , so we'll have the next meeting about half an hour , um. I want the uh  I'd like  Nathan , I'd like you to work on just the basic look and feel , what can we accomplish , um , given these parameters that we're just gonna sort of have this kind of uh non-remote remote. Um , what are our broad constraints before we deve design a prototype.

And um Ron if you can figure out how probably best to lay out this idea of this simple design with the voice recognition built in and also this kind of drop down or s on the side kind of menu options simple. Somehow work out how we can get this all s in the same place. Um , and if you can check product evaluation with m some pilots and stuff. Um I need you guys to work together on making a prototype ,  um  using um  prototype building materials um .

And also um specific instructions will be sent to you by your coaches as well.


And um Ron if you can figure out how probably best to lay out this idea of this simple design with the voice recognition built in and also this kind of drop down or s on the side kind of menu options simple. Somehow work out how we can get this all s in the same place. Um , and if you can check product evaluation with m some pilots and stuff. Um I need you guys to work together on making a prototype ,  um  using um  prototype building materials um .

And also um specific instructions will be sent to you by your coaches as well.


And um Ron if you can figure out how probably best to lay out this idea of this simple design with the voice recognition built in and also this kind of drop down or s on the side kind of menu options simple. Somehow work out how we can get this all s in the same place. Um , and if you can check product evaluation with m some pilots and stuff. Um I need you guys to work together on making a prototype ,  um  using um  prototype building materials um .

And also um specific instructions will be sent to you by your coaches as well.

So that's what to start with for now , is that alright , you guys feel clear about this ?


And also um specific instructions will be sent to you by your coaches as well.

So that's what to start with for now , is that alright , you guys feel clear about this ?


So that's what to start with for now , is that alright , you guys feel clear about this ?


Alright. I guess we'll just hit the bricks. Thanks guys.


Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Hefin David and there is no substitute. Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2, then, is a further evidence session, number four, on our inquiry into the status of the Welsh baccalaureate qualification. I'm very pleased to welcome Dafydd Evans, who is chair, ColegauCymru, and chief executive officer of Grŵp Llandrillo Menai; Kay Martin, principal of Cardiff and Vale College, also representing ColegauCymru; Nick Brazil, who is deputy principal, Gower College Swansea, also representing ColegauCymru; Dr Rachel Bowen, director of policy and development at ColegauCymru; and Ed Evans, who is the director and secretary of the Civil Engineering Contractors Association. Thank you all for attending. We're very pleased that you've been able to join us. If it's okay with you, we'll go straight into questions, and the first ones are from Siân Gwenllian.

Good morning. I'll be asking my questions in Welsh.

Could I start and then open it up? Thank you very much for the opportunity to give evidence. But just to give you the context, I think, if you were asking about the vast majority of subjects what the view of ColegauCymru would be, it would be quite unanimous, but I think on the Welsh bac there is a difference of opinion, and I'm sure you'll hear those differences on the panel before you today. We've possibly chosen this panel because there are differences of opinion. So, I just want to give you that context at the outset. To answer the specific question, no, I don't think that employers have a clear understanding of what the Welsh bac means or what it includes. Personally I don't think that even the title of the Welsh bac is helpful, because it doesn't say what's happening in the tin. So, I think the skills challenge certificate is a better title, and is something that people understand a lot better than the Welsh bac. So, no, I don't think that employers understand the value or what we're trying to achieve through the Welsh bac at present.


Good morning. I'll be asking my questions in Welsh.

Could I start and then open it up? Thank you very much for the opportunity to give evidence. But just to give you the context, I think, if you were asking about the vast majority of subjects what the view of ColegauCymru would be, it would be quite unanimous, but I think on the Welsh bac there is a difference of opinion, and I'm sure you'll hear those differences on the panel before you today. We've possibly chosen this panel because there are differences of opinion. So, I just want to give you that context at the outset. To answer the specific question, no, I don't think that employers have a clear understanding of what the Welsh bac means or what it includes. Personally I don't think that even the title of the Welsh bac is helpful, because it doesn't say what's happening in the tin. So, I think the skills challenge certificate is a better title, and is something that people understand a lot better than the Welsh bac. So, no, I don't think that employers understand the value or what we're trying to achieve through the Welsh bac at present.


Good morning. I'll be asking my questions in Welsh.

Could I start and then open it up? Thank you very much for the opportunity to give evidence. But just to give you the context, I think, if you were asking about the vast majority of subjects what the view of ColegauCymru would be, it would be quite unanimous, but I think on the Welsh bac there is a difference of opinion, and I'm sure you'll hear those differences on the panel before you today. We've possibly chosen this panel because there are differences of opinion. So, I just want to give you that context at the outset. To answer the specific question, no, I don't think that employers have a clear understanding of what the Welsh bac means or what it includes. Personally I don't think that even the title of the Welsh bac is helpful, because it doesn't say what's happening in the tin. So, I think the skills challenge certificate is a better title, and is something that people understand a lot better than the Welsh bac. So, no, I don't think that employers understand the value or what we're trying to achieve through the Welsh bac at present.

Yes, it's a huge problem, but not only to employers, but also to parents and young people, of course.


Could I start and then open it up? Thank you very much for the opportunity to give evidence. But just to give you the context, I think, if you were asking about the vast majority of subjects what the view of ColegauCymru would be, it would be quite unanimous, but I think on the Welsh bac there is a difference of opinion, and I'm sure you'll hear those differences on the panel before you today. We've possibly chosen this panel because there are differences of opinion. So, I just want to give you that context at the outset. To answer the specific question, no, I don't think that employers have a clear understanding of what the Welsh bac means or what it includes. Personally I don't think that even the title of the Welsh bac is helpful, because it doesn't say what's happening in the tin. So, I think the skills challenge certificate is a better title, and is something that people understand a lot better than the Welsh bac. So, no, I don't think that employers understand the value or what we're trying to achieve through the Welsh bac at present.

Yes, it's a huge problem, but not only to employers, but also to parents and young people, of course.

And I think that that varies by size of employer as well. That, certainly, where there are larger employers, who've got people who are able to follow policy developments across the education spectrum, they may have more capacity to follow changes, get up to date with how Welsh education is evolving. But we know that most employers in Wales are small or microbusinesses. And while there are lots of small engaged employers who have taken an interest and do understand, the vast majority are more focused on getting on with the day-to-day running of the business. And that means it's quite a challenge to understand what is the Welsh bac, what does it offer. And, certainly, when that's evolved over the past few years and there have been changes, it would have been quite difficult to keep up to date with those, I imagine.


Yes, it's a huge problem, but not only to employers, but also to parents and young people, of course.

And I think that that varies by size of employer as well. That, certainly, where there are larger employers, who've got people who are able to follow policy developments across the education spectrum, they may have more capacity to follow changes, get up to date with how Welsh education is evolving. But we know that most employers in Wales are small or microbusinesses. And while there are lots of small engaged employers who have taken an interest and do understand, the vast majority are more focused on getting on with the day-to-day running of the business. And that means it's quite a challenge to understand what is the Welsh bac, what does it offer. And, certainly, when that's evolved over the past few years and there have been changes, it would have been quite difficult to keep up to date with those, I imagine.

Could I add to that? As do many of my colleagues within the colleges, we have a number of employer boards, which we regularly meet with—employers—and I cannot think back as to how many employers say to us, 'That is what we require—the Welsh bac—to come and work within our industry.' Most of what they are questioning is the level of professional qualifications and the quality of skills within those professional sectors. Not many of them have indicated that the Welsh bac is providing the skills that they require. I think many of them believe in the vision that was set out for the Welsh bac initially, but the Welsh bac has turned into quite a rigorous, some would say demanding, qualification, which is putting a lot of pressure on in terms of bureaucracy, in terms of staff and the student getting all the information together at the end of the year, and whether that's developing the skills that employers require is very questionable. And, as I said, from the employer boards that we have, very few of them understand the Welsh bac. They certainly don't mention the Welsh bac and, as I said, are very much questioning the qualifications that have been provided to develop the actual professional skills needed within the industries.


And I think that that varies by size of employer as well. That, certainly, where there are larger employers, who've got people who are able to follow policy developments across the education spectrum, they may have more capacity to follow changes, get up to date with how Welsh education is evolving. But we know that most employers in Wales are small or microbusinesses. And while there are lots of small engaged employers who have taken an interest and do understand, the vast majority are more focused on getting on with the day-to-day running of the business. And that means it's quite a challenge to understand what is the Welsh bac, what does it offer. And, certainly, when that's evolved over the past few years and there have been changes, it would have been quite difficult to keep up to date with those, I imagine.

Could I add to that? As do many of my colleagues within the colleges, we have a number of employer boards, which we regularly meet with—employers—and I cannot think back as to how many employers say to us, 'That is what we require—the Welsh bac—to come and work within our industry.' Most of what they are questioning is the level of professional qualifications and the quality of skills within those professional sectors. Not many of them have indicated that the Welsh bac is providing the skills that they require. I think many of them believe in the vision that was set out for the Welsh bac initially, but the Welsh bac has turned into quite a rigorous, some would say demanding, qualification, which is putting a lot of pressure on in terms of bureaucracy, in terms of staff and the student getting all the information together at the end of the year, and whether that's developing the skills that employers require is very questionable. And, as I said, from the employer boards that we have, very few of them understand the Welsh bac. They certainly don't mention the Welsh bac and, as I said, are very much questioning the qualifications that have been provided to develop the actual professional skills needed within the industries.

Certainly, it's very similar, and our employers want to make sure they get the right qualification. They're having enough headache getting around the differences with apprenticeships and the levy between England and Wales, and changes to qualifications. But they want them to get their main qualification. So, if you're an engineer, they want to get the engineering qualifications and they want them to be literate, numerate, and they want them to have digital skills. And that isn't captured necessarily in the Welsh baccalaureate. And, so, the understanding is quite limited amongst the employers we work with.


Could I add to that? As do many of my colleagues within the colleges, we have a number of employer boards, which we regularly meet with—employers—and I cannot think back as to how many employers say to us, 'That is what we require—the Welsh bac—to come and work within our industry.' Most of what they are questioning is the level of professional qualifications and the quality of skills within those professional sectors. Not many of them have indicated that the Welsh bac is providing the skills that they require. I think many of them believe in the vision that was set out for the Welsh bac initially, but the Welsh bac has turned into quite a rigorous, some would say demanding, qualification, which is putting a lot of pressure on in terms of bureaucracy, in terms of staff and the student getting all the information together at the end of the year, and whether that's developing the skills that employers require is very questionable. And, as I said, from the employer boards that we have, very few of them understand the Welsh bac. They certainly don't mention the Welsh bac and, as I said, are very much questioning the qualifications that have been provided to develop the actual professional skills needed within the industries.

Certainly, it's very similar, and our employers want to make sure they get the right qualification. They're having enough headache getting around the differences with apprenticeships and the levy between England and Wales, and changes to qualifications. But they want them to get their main qualification. So, if you're an engineer, they want to get the engineering qualifications and they want them to be literate, numerate, and they want them to have digital skills. And that isn't captured necessarily in the Welsh baccalaureate. And, so, the understanding is quite limited amongst the employers we work with.

Okay. And, finally, I know you've got strong views as an organisation.


Certainly, it's very similar, and our employers want to make sure they get the right qualification. They're having enough headache getting around the differences with apprenticeships and the levy between England and Wales, and changes to qualifications. But they want them to get their main qualification. So, if you're an engineer, they want to get the engineering qualifications and they want them to be literate, numerate, and they want them to have digital skills. And that isn't captured necessarily in the Welsh baccalaureate. And, so, the understanding is quite limited amongst the employers we work with.

Okay. And, finally, I know you've got strong views as an organisation.


Okay. And, finally, I know you've got strong views as an organisation.

—just so that a lot of our members will understand when I'm speaking. I think it's fair to say employers don't understand it, that's for sure, but I think if they did, they would really appreciate this. For my sector in particular—the civil engineering sector—and particularly the contracting sector, which depends very much on pupils who have come through from a less academic background, the Welsh bac gives them that ability, I guess, not to pursue so much of an academic focus, but to test them in terms of the challenges, but also, to—. And I think if it was working properly and we did have employers engaged in this, and supporting schools and colleges to deliver it, they would actually be learning a lot more directly from industry. And some children, some pupils, some young people, they respond far, far better to that. And I think that's the issue for me—that we've not really sold this to employers to actually engage with them. All of my understanding of this is literally as a parent, and that would be true of a lot of employers as well. So, perhaps there are differences across the sector, but I think, certainly for my sector, we would really value the growth of the Welsh baccalaureate.


—just so that a lot of our members will understand when I'm speaking. I think it's fair to say employers don't understand it, that's for sure, but I think if they did, they would really appreciate this. For my sector in particular—the civil engineering sector—and particularly the contracting sector, which depends very much on pupils who have come through from a less academic background, the Welsh bac gives them that ability, I guess, not to pursue so much of an academic focus, but to test them in terms of the challenges, but also, to—. And I think if it was working properly and we did have employers engaged in this, and supporting schools and colleges to deliver it, they would actually be learning a lot more directly from industry. And some children, some pupils, some young people, they respond far, far better to that. And I think that's the issue for me—that we've not really sold this to employers to actually engage with them. All of my understanding of this is literally as a parent, and that would be true of a lot of employers as well. So, perhaps there are differences across the sector, but I think, certainly for my sector, we would really value the growth of the Welsh baccalaureate.

What are we going to do, then, to improve employers' understanding of the Welsh bac, and whose work is it to try to persuade employers that it is worth while, if you feel that it is worth while, of course?


—just so that a lot of our members will understand when I'm speaking. I think it's fair to say employers don't understand it, that's for sure, but I think if they did, they would really appreciate this. For my sector in particular—the civil engineering sector—and particularly the contracting sector, which depends very much on pupils who have come through from a less academic background, the Welsh bac gives them that ability, I guess, not to pursue so much of an academic focus, but to test them in terms of the challenges, but also, to—. And I think if it was working properly and we did have employers engaged in this, and supporting schools and colleges to deliver it, they would actually be learning a lot more directly from industry. And some children, some pupils, some young people, they respond far, far better to that. And I think that's the issue for me—that we've not really sold this to employers to actually engage with them. All of my understanding of this is literally as a parent, and that would be true of a lot of employers as well. So, perhaps there are differences across the sector, but I think, certainly for my sector, we would really value the growth of the Welsh baccalaureate.

What are we going to do, then, to improve employers' understanding of the Welsh bac, and whose work is it to try to persuade employers that it is worth while, if you feel that it is worth while, of course?

I think we need to review the qualification, and I think the voice of employers should be a key part of that review, so that employability skills and entrepreneurial skills have more of a role within that qualification. And I think that rather than it being done by the colleges or by a qualifications board, I think the employers—. And the only way we'll get employer buy-in is that if they feel ownership of what's being done. Because I think that's what the vision was for the Welsh baccalaureate—that it was going to improve skills for employment. But, somehow or other we've lost our way. The aim is an excellent one, but I think we've lost our way in terms of what we do present at the end of the day, and I think having more input from employers would be a great help.


—just so that a lot of our members will understand when I'm speaking. I think it's fair to say employers don't understand it, that's for sure, but I think if they did, they would really appreciate this. For my sector in particular—the civil engineering sector—and particularly the contracting sector, which depends very much on pupils who have come through from a less academic background, the Welsh bac gives them that ability, I guess, not to pursue so much of an academic focus, but to test them in terms of the challenges, but also, to—. And I think if it was working properly and we did have employers engaged in this, and supporting schools and colleges to deliver it, they would actually be learning a lot more directly from industry. And some children, some pupils, some young people, they respond far, far better to that. And I think that's the issue for me—that we've not really sold this to employers to actually engage with them. All of my understanding of this is literally as a parent, and that would be true of a lot of employers as well. So, perhaps there are differences across the sector, but I think, certainly for my sector, we would really value the growth of the Welsh baccalaureate.

What are we going to do, then, to improve employers' understanding of the Welsh bac, and whose work is it to try to persuade employers that it is worth while, if you feel that it is worth while, of course?

I think we need to review the qualification, and I think the voice of employers should be a key part of that review, so that employability skills and entrepreneurial skills have more of a role within that qualification. And I think that rather than it being done by the colleges or by a qualifications board, I think the employers—. And the only way we'll get employer buy-in is that if they feel ownership of what's being done. Because I think that's what the vision was for the Welsh baccalaureate—that it was going to improve skills for employment. But, somehow or other we've lost our way. The aim is an excellent one, but I think we've lost our way in terms of what we do present at the end of the day, and I think having more input from employers would be a great help.

I will carry on in English, if that's okay.


What are we going to do, then, to improve employers' understanding of the Welsh bac, and whose work is it to try to persuade employers that it is worth while, if you feel that it is worth while, of course?

I think we need to review the qualification, and I think the voice of employers should be a key part of that review, so that employability skills and entrepreneurial skills have more of a role within that qualification. And I think that rather than it being done by the colleges or by a qualifications board, I think the employers—. And the only way we'll get employer buy-in is that if they feel ownership of what's being done. Because I think that's what the vision was for the Welsh baccalaureate—that it was going to improve skills for employment. But, somehow or other we've lost our way. The aim is an excellent one, but I think we've lost our way in terms of what we do present at the end of the day, and I think having more input from employers would be a great help.

I will carry on in English, if that's okay.


I think we need to review the qualification, and I think the voice of employers should be a key part of that review, so that employability skills and entrepreneurial skills have more of a role within that qualification. And I think that rather than it being done by the colleges or by a qualifications board, I think the employers—. And the only way we'll get employer buy-in is that if they feel ownership of what's being done. Because I think that's what the vision was for the Welsh baccalaureate—that it was going to improve skills for employment. But, somehow or other we've lost our way. The aim is an excellent one, but I think we've lost our way in terms of what we do present at the end of the day, and I think having more input from employers would be a great help.

I will carry on in English, if that's okay.

I would agree. I think we do need more employers involved in this. I think there are opportunities to join up employers and schools and education facilities a lot more than we do at the moment. I suppose that the bee in my bonnet is that we are involved in lots of social value-type contracts in this sector, and that to me is a perfect opportunity to tie in employers into schools and colleges and get that time and input from them into schools in a far more co-ordinated way. It happens at the moment. It's the community benefits clauses that are in construction contracts. They're there to serve a really good purpose, but it's become a little bit piecemeal and a little bit tokenistic, whereas the Welsh bac offers an opportunity—. It's something that's part of the curriculum. It's clearly not functioning well at the moment. It would benefit from that business input. So, why not link up those contractual clauses, which tie in employers and feed it directly into schools so that we have a far more structured way of getting employers into schools? At the moment it's a little bit—we'll pick up the phone, we'll get a phone call, and it'll be, 'Can you come and do something for us?' It's tokenistic. We need to be far more clever in terms of how we join these things up, and then I think you'll start to get that business input there, but let's not be ad hoc about it.


I will carry on in English, if that's okay.

I would agree. I think we do need more employers involved in this. I think there are opportunities to join up employers and schools and education facilities a lot more than we do at the moment. I suppose that the bee in my bonnet is that we are involved in lots of social value-type contracts in this sector, and that to me is a perfect opportunity to tie in employers into schools and colleges and get that time and input from them into schools in a far more co-ordinated way. It happens at the moment. It's the community benefits clauses that are in construction contracts. They're there to serve a really good purpose, but it's become a little bit piecemeal and a little bit tokenistic, whereas the Welsh bac offers an opportunity—. It's something that's part of the curriculum. It's clearly not functioning well at the moment. It would benefit from that business input. So, why not link up those contractual clauses, which tie in employers and feed it directly into schools so that we have a far more structured way of getting employers into schools? At the moment it's a little bit—we'll pick up the phone, we'll get a phone call, and it'll be, 'Can you come and do something for us?' It's tokenistic. We need to be far more clever in terms of how we join these things up, and then I think you'll start to get that business input there, but let's not be ad hoc about it.

Could I just add something? We've also got several other programmes that are engaging employers really well. Career Ready is a national programme, which we use in the college and which other colleges across the UK use. That's where employers mentor students so everyone has a mentor for the whole of the two years of the programme, from employment, and they all go out for at least six weeks' internship. So, they don't go for a day's work placement or two days—they go for six-week internships. Some learners have got real benefit from that and really raised their aspirations. We've got BTEC learners who have gone through that programme and gone into law degrees with Freshfields law in London, which is one of the top law firms in the world. So, there are lots of other programmes as well, and perhaps there's a way of joining it all up together. But, in the college, we've got several different programmes going on with employers and the Welsh bac is one of them, but it's not the one that engages employers the best, certainly in our college.