uh I mean it it's uh it it's just I mean it's just a minor detailed point , but um as you say you can just make the base a little bit bigger and uh

Yeah and uh it just needs another uh another logo somewhere is is is is all it gives gives people the option and if if say if they've got them um


Yeah and uh it just needs another uh another logo somewhere is is is is all it gives gives people the option and if if say if they've got them um

because  actually have several  upon the uh


Yeah and uh it just needs another uh another logo somewhere is is is is all it gives gives people the option and if if say if they've got them um

because  actually have several  upon the uh

Could have one for your stereo , one for your  D_V_ player.


because  actually have several  upon the uh

Could have one for your stereo , one for your  D_V_ player.


Could have one for your stereo , one for your  D_V_ player.


so it comes down to the base of the hand


the the the overall uh the overall concept is uh


Yeah I kinda had a a kinda  a natural kind of a idea


Yeah I kinda had a a kinda  a natural kind of a idea

so it kinda  your hand still holds it and have it there ,


Yeah I kinda had a a kinda  a natural kind of a idea

so it kinda  your hand still holds it and have it there ,

yeah , yeah , yeah like that , like that . Yeah.


so it kinda  your hand still holds it and have it there ,

yeah , yeah , yeah like that , like that . Yeah.

where it's like more of a kind of  like a kinda maybe slightly like thinner ,


yeah , yeah , yeah like that , like that . Yeah.

where it's like more of a kind of  like a kinda maybe slightly like thinner ,


where it's like more of a kind of  like a kinda maybe slightly like thinner ,

yeah , kinda like that kinda  like a flower or a plant


yeah , kinda like that kinda  like a flower or a plant

But uh yeah  but no th but the  yeah the the the


But uh yeah  but no th but the  yeah the the the


The final product would actually stand up , yeah .


The final product would actually stand up , yeah .

wouldn't do that , indeed yeah. But th th but th yeah th b the


wouldn't do that , indeed yeah. But th th but th yeah th b the


wouldn't do that , indeed yeah. But th th but th yeah th b the

these were all minor minor uh minor details ,


these were all minor minor uh minor details ,


these were all minor minor uh minor details ,

I think the uh the basic concept i i is is absolutely bang on


I think the uh the basic concept i i is is absolutely bang on


it certainly meets our criteria of being uh  of you know looking different.


Um right let us um What's on the next one ? Oh right yes , let's have a look at the um f finance. Um , now we're given a a clear design brief , uh if I  get the uh spreadsheet up. Oh.


Um right let us um What's on the next one ? Oh right yes , let's have a look at the um f finance. Um , now we're given a a clear design brief , uh if I  get the uh spreadsheet up. Oh.

Oh right. Ah. Good , this is why we need to make these things simple so that the uh the the the boss can understand.


Oh right. Ah. Good , this is why we need to make these things simple so that the uh the the the boss can understand.

Now I've um  this is the company's uh uh costing for for various uh uh aspects of design and I I I've treated some of these slightly uh liberally given the constraints placed on us , um I wouldn't know for in for instance if if they require us to have it in the corporate colours , then that is not a special colour , that's a that's a standard colour. Uh , so we're just simply on batteries , the the one th the one decision I've had to make is that um we're  we will have to find a s a regular standard chip to to do this with and I I um I'm I'm I'm certain that they they are around so , um that I don't think is a a serious problem. The uh the the voice sensor is is expensive but we we made a a basic decision that that was absolutely fundamental to the to the design so that that has to stay. Um then again the the the the shape of the case means that it's it's expensive to uh um l to make 'cause of the the th the double curves but on the other hand because of our overall fashion concept um we we should exceed the the sales targets. Um it's simply made of plastic so th that's uh that's no problem and uh um just because the whole  the colour of the the whole thing that's uh uh there's some cost there. Um and uh we haven't actually got a scroll wheel we we we got push buttons and and a simple uh um  slider so um and the and the the buttons are uh uh well I do don't know that they're special colour. Anyway the the costings uh come in at  exactly on target at twelve point five uh but I thi I think we have a a very strong case to argue that uh what what we've got is is so in innovative and uh and different that um  any any slight compromise we have to make on on cost is is offset by the uh you know the uh you know the the the the concept of it being a a fashion accessory and and having the the interchangeable covers


Oh right. Ah. Good , this is why we need to make these things simple so that the uh the the the boss can understand.

Now I've um  this is the company's uh uh costing for for various uh uh aspects of design and I I I've treated some of these slightly uh liberally given the constraints placed on us , um I wouldn't know for in for instance if if they require us to have it in the corporate colours , then that is not a special colour , that's a that's a standard colour. Uh , so we're just simply on batteries , the the one th the one decision I've had to make is that um we're  we will have to find a s a regular standard chip to to do this with and I I um I'm I'm I'm certain that they they are around so , um that I don't think is a a serious problem. The uh the the voice sensor is is expensive but we we made a a basic decision that that was absolutely fundamental to the to the design so that that has to stay. Um then again the the the the shape of the case means that it's it's expensive to uh um l to make 'cause of the the th the double curves but on the other hand because of our overall fashion concept um we we should exceed the the sales targets. Um it's simply made of plastic so th that's uh that's no problem and uh um just because the whole  the colour of the the whole thing that's uh uh there's some cost there. Um and uh we haven't actually got a scroll wheel we we we got push buttons and and a simple uh um  slider so um and the and the the buttons are uh uh well I do don't know that they're special colour. Anyway the the costings uh come in at  exactly on target at twelve point five uh but I thi I think we have a a very strong case to argue that uh what what we've got is is so in innovative and uh and different that um  any any slight compromise we have to make on on cost is is offset by the uh you know the uh you know the the the the concept of it being a a fashion accessory and and having the the interchangeable covers

so uh um you know the  if if if the management expect us to be techno  again  fail again  technologically innovative um that they they have to accept that we we can't operate absolutely within uh the constraints that they give ,


Now I've um  this is the company's uh uh costing for for various uh uh aspects of design and I I I've treated some of these slightly uh liberally given the constraints placed on us , um I wouldn't know for in for instance if if they require us to have it in the corporate colours , then that is not a special colour , that's a that's a standard colour. Uh , so we're just simply on batteries , the the one th the one decision I've had to make is that um we're  we will have to find a s a regular standard chip to to do this with and I I um I'm I'm I'm certain that they they are around so , um that I don't think is a a serious problem. The uh the the voice sensor is is expensive but we we made a a basic decision that that was absolutely fundamental to the to the design so that that has to stay. Um then again the the the the shape of the case means that it's it's expensive to uh um l to make 'cause of the the th the double curves but on the other hand because of our overall fashion concept um we we should exceed the the sales targets. Um it's simply made of plastic so th that's uh that's no problem and uh um just because the whole  the colour of the the whole thing that's uh uh there's some cost there. Um and uh we haven't actually got a scroll wheel we we we got push buttons and and a simple uh um  slider so um and the and the the buttons are uh uh well I do don't know that they're special colour. Anyway the the costings uh come in at  exactly on target at twelve point five uh but I thi I think we have a a very strong case to argue that uh what what we've got is is so in innovative and uh and different that um  any any slight compromise we have to make on on cost is is offset by the uh you know the uh you know the the the the concept of it being a a fashion accessory and and having the the interchangeable covers

so uh um you know the  if if if the management expect us to be techno  again  fail again  technologically innovative um that they they have to accept that we we can't operate absolutely within uh the constraints that they give ,


so uh um you know the  if if if the management expect us to be techno  again  fail again  technologically innovative um that they they have to accept that we we can't operate absolutely within uh the constraints that they give ,

so uh we we we present this as the uh the company's uh the the company's way forward and uh uh I I think we can argue that we we have uh come in on on budget. Um. Okay , uh. So um. Does anybody want to uh  uh Andrew do you want  what do you want to say about um the uh yeah the evaluation


so uh we we we present this as the uh the company's uh the the company's way forward and uh uh I I think we can argue that we we have uh come in on on budget. Um. Okay , uh. So um. Does anybody want to uh  uh Andrew do you want  what do you want to say about um the uh yeah the evaluation

where where you know well where where we're where where we're at ?


where where you know well where where we're where where we're at ?

The the the well the  I meant the product.


where where you know well where where we're where where we're at ?

The the the well the  I meant the product.

Um , well well my presentation just now ?


The the the well the  I meant the product.

Um , well well my presentation just now ?


Um , well well my presentation just now ?


Cheers.  There we go , oh. Method of evaluation  testing the product was to just  if it met all the criteria  all the conditions that we set out to set out to solve , from the point of view of the the consumer and the management. So what I've been asked to do is , on the whiteboard


Cheers.  There we go , oh. Method of evaluation  testing the product was to just  if it met all the criteria  all the conditions that we set out to set out to solve , from the point of view of the the consumer and the management. So what I've been asked to do is , on the whiteboard

um gauge our team response to these questions. So , on a scale of one to seven , one being true and seven being being false.


Cheers.  There we go , oh. Method of evaluation  testing the product was to just  if it met all the criteria  all the conditions that we set out to set out to solve , from the point of view of the the consumer and the management. So what I've been asked to do is , on the whiteboard

um gauge our team response to these questions. So , on a scale of one to seven , one being true and seven being being false.

Seven being a nice round number to work to.


Cheers.  There we go , oh. Method of evaluation  testing the product was to just  if it met all the criteria  all the conditions that we set out to set out to solve , from the point of view of the the consumer and the management. So what I've been asked to do is , on the whiteboard

um gauge our team response to these questions. So , on a scale of one to seven , one being true and seven being being false.

Seven being a nice round number to work to.

Yeah. And then at the end just take an average


um gauge our team response to these questions. So , on a scale of one to seven , one being true and seven being being false.

Seven being a nice round number to work to.

Yeah. And then at the end just take an average

Tr On for true and seven for flase. Yes.


Seven being a nice round number to work to.

Yeah. And then at the end just take an average

Tr On for true and seven for flase. Yes.


Yeah. And then at the end just take an average

Tr On for true and seven for flase. Yes.

So uh.  So , look at these questions. Is the device f flashy and fashionable ?


Tr On for true and seven for flase. Yes.

So uh.  So , look at these questions. Is the device f flashy and fashionable ?


So uh.  So , look at these questions. Is the device f flashy and fashionable ?


So uh  and also uh technologically innovative ?


I don't see we could've made it any easier.


I don't see we could've made it any easier.

Uh suitable for the consumer ? That was um


Uh suitable for the consumer ? That was um


Uh suitable for the consumer ? That was um

Yeah I think it made  we met all of the consumer


Yeah I think it made  we met all of the consumer


Doing pretty well so far aren't we ?  Uh functional ?


We've b built in the the speech , where are you , function.


Does it take long to learn to use ? Shouldn't.


Does it take long to learn to use ? Shouldn't.

Mm-hmm. And uh , what else ?  The R_S_I_ compares to the current standards ,


Mm-hmm. And uh , what else ?  The R_S_I_ compares to the current standards ,


it is sorta the the handle more ergonomically correct as well.


Um will device appeal to all age groups ?


Um will device appeal to all age groups ?

I think it will because I mean uh old older people who can't manage the buttons anyway will actually probably like the like like the voice bit so


I think it will because I mean uh old older people who can't manage the buttons anyway will actually probably like the like like the voice bit so


uh that's a good call , yeah. Well we had the we had the data  saying that old people will be less likely to pay extra money but the funct the increased functionality ,  the e ease of use of the device might make up for that.


uh that's a good call , yeah. Well we had the we had the data  saying that old people will be less likely to pay extra money but the funct the increased functionality ,  the e ease of use of the device might make up for that.

well I don't think we're actually charging a particular premium anyway , in the end , so


well I don't think we're actually charging a particular premium anyway , in the end , so

I I I think it will tend to appeal more to younger aged groups


I I I think it will tend to appeal more to younger aged groups

just 'cause we have gone with the fashion focus


just 'cause we have gone with the fashion focus


just 'cause we have gone with the fashion focus

and the younger people tend to  would be more conscious of that aspect of it , but um I think it should still appeal on a certain level to everybody , yeah.


just 'cause we have gone with the fashion focus

and the younger people tend to  would be more conscious of that aspect of it , but um I think it should still appeal on a certain level to everybody , yeah.

It will appeal f for dif for different reasons but it's it's uh


and the younger people tend to  would be more conscious of that aspect of it , but um I think it should still appeal on a certain level to everybody , yeah.

It will appeal f for dif for different reasons but it's it's uh


It will appeal f for dif for different reasons but it's it's uh


and not having you know a million buttons.


and not having you know a million buttons.

Yeah , so I think we can reasonably say it's another another one ,


Yeah , so I think we can reasonably say it's another another one ,

Uh can you just click the my mouse to move onto next page ? Uh , yeah and what h did we make the management's


Uh can you just click the my mouse to move onto next page ? Uh , yeah and what h did we make the management's

in in in in my interpretation of management's instructions uh is that yes it it meets the requirement


in in in in my interpretation of management's instructions uh is that yes it it meets the requirement


um I  it's uh  yes an an any minor points we we we argue.


um I  it's uh  yes an an any minor points we we we argue.

So uh I I think we've done an amazing job


So uh I I think we've done an amazing job


So uh one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven. Eleven divided by  eleven's one so  equals average of one.


So uh one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven. Eleven divided by  eleven's one so  equals average of one.

And that roughly concludes my evaluation of the of the product.


And that roughly concludes my evaluation of the of the product.


Ooh. Right do um either of you want to uh say anything ?


and looked really at what the consumers wanted and what we were trying to make


and looked really at what the consumers wanted and what we were trying to make

and you know , seemed to discuss things pretty well


and you know , seemed to discuss things pretty well


and you know , seemed to discuss things pretty well

Well that's right , I mean th this this slide here I mean the satisfaction with uh room for creativity , I mean


Well that's right , I mean th this this slide here I mean the satisfaction with uh room for creativity , I mean


Well that's right , I mean th this this slide here I mean the satisfaction with uh room for creativity , I mean

I think we've allowed ourselves uh as much creativity as the uh the the the product uh allows.


I think we've allowed ourselves uh as much creativity as the uh the the the product uh allows.

Um I won't comment on leadership , uh teamwork I think we've uh  I think everybody's uh worked pretty well together.


Um I won't comment on leadership , uh teamwork I think we've uh  I think everybody's uh worked pretty well together.

Um we've just about coped with the whiteboard and digital pens , uh I think the results speak for itself


Um we've just about coped with the whiteboard and digital pens , uh I think the results speak for itself

and new ideas found , um , again gi no given relatively everyday product , I think we've v very uh very effectively come up with a a new uh


and new ideas found , um , again gi no given relatively everyday product , I think we've v very uh very effectively come up with a a new uh


and new ideas found , um , again gi no given relatively everyday product , I think we've v very uh very effectively come up with a a new uh

uh a new approach. Um are the costs within budget ? Yes. Is the project evaluated ? We're we're all happy that it it meets all the criteria , um


uh a new approach. Um are the costs within budget ? Yes. Is the project evaluated ? We're we're all happy that it it meets all the criteria , um


uh a new approach. Um are the costs within budget ? Yes. Is the project evaluated ? We're we're all happy that it it meets all the criteria , um

Thank you very much indeed , I think that  I think that's uh


Thank you very much indeed , I think that  I think that's uh


Not sure how far ahead of schedule we were there.


OK. So , uh You can fill those out , uh  after , actually , so So , I got , uh  these results from , uh , Stephane. Also , um , I think that , uh  um  we might hear later today , about other results. I think s that , uh , there were some other very good results that we 're gonna wanna compare to. But ,  r our results from other  other places , yeah.


and then I sent a note to Sunil about the  cuz he has been running some other systems


So  um , I wan wanna  wanna see what that is. But , uh , you know , so we 'll see what it is comparatively later. But  it looks like , um


So  um , I wan wanna  wanna see what that is. But , uh , you know , so we 'll see what it is comparatively later. But  it looks like , um

You know most of the time , even  I mean even though it 's true that the overall number for Danish  we didn't improve it If you look at it individually , what it really says is that there 's , um , uh Looks like out of the six cases , between the different kinds of , uh , matching conditions  out of the six cases , there 's basically , um , a couple where it stays about the same , uh , three where it gets better , and one where it gets worse.


You know most of the time , even  I mean even though it 's true that the overall number for Danish  we didn't improve it If you look at it individually , what it really says is that there 's , um , uh Looks like out of the six cases , between the different kinds of , uh , matching conditions  out of the six cases , there 's basically , um , a couple where it stays about the same , uh , three where it gets better , and one where it gets worse.


You know most of the time , even  I mean even though it 's true that the overall number for Danish  we didn't improve it If you look at it individually , what it really says is that there 's , um , uh Looks like out of the six cases , between the different kinds of , uh , matching conditions  out of the six cases , there 's basically , um , a couple where it stays about the same , uh , three where it gets better , and one where it gets worse.

Y Actually , uh , um , for the Danish , there 's still some kind of mystery because , um , um , when we use the straight features , we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one , I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight , we have eight


Y Actually , uh , um , for the Danish , there 's still some kind of mystery because , um , um , when we use the straight features , we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one , I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight , we have eight


Y Actually , uh , um , for the Danish , there 's still some kind of mystery because , um , um , when we use the straight features , we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one , I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight , we have eight

yeah. Uh , so , uh , that 's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh , and Sunil is working on  on trying to  to check everything.


Y Actually , uh , um , for the Danish , there 's still some kind of mystery because , um , um , when we use the straight features , we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one , I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight , we have eight

yeah. Uh , so , uh , that 's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh , and Sunil is working on  on trying to  to check everything.

Oh , and  and we have a little time on that  and  actually so


yeah. Uh , so , uh , that 's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh , and Sunil is working on  on trying to  to check everything.

Oh , and  and we have a little time on that  and  actually so


yeah. Uh , so , uh , that 's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh , and Sunil is working on  on trying to  to check everything.

Oh , and  and we have a little time on that  and  actually so

We have a little bit of time on that , actually.


Oh , and  and we have a little time on that  and  actually so

We have a little bit of time on that , actually.


We have a little bit of time on that , actually.

We have a day or so , so When  when  when do you folks leave ?


We have a day or so , so When  when  when do you folks leave ?

Sunday ? So So , uh Yeah , until Saturday midnight , or something , we have W we  we have time , yeah. Well , that would be good. That 'd be good.


Sunday ? So So , uh Yeah , until Saturday midnight , or something , we have W we  we have time , yeah. Well , that would be good. That 'd be good.

Yeah. Uh , and , you know , i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also , for sure , email Hynek because Hynek will be over there  telling people  what we did , so he should know.


Yeah. Uh , and , you know , i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also , for sure , email Hynek because Hynek will be over there  telling people  what we did , so he should know.

Good , OK. So , um So , we 'll  we 'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean , even with these results as they are , it 's  it 's  it 's really not that bad. But  but , uh , um And it looks like the overall result as they are now , even without , you know , any  any bugs being fixed is that , uh , on the  the other tasks , we had this average of , uh , forty uh  nine percent , or so , improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish , and somewhat worse than that on the German , but I mean , it sounds like , uh , one way or another , the methods that we 're doing can reduce the error rate from  from mel ceptrum  down by , you know  a fourth of them to , uh , a half of them. Somewhere in there , depending on the  exact case. So So that 's good. I mean , I think that , uh , one of the things that Hynek was talking about was understanding what was in the other really good proposals and  and trying to see if what should ultimately be proposed is some , uh , combination of things. Um , if , uh  Cuz there 's things that they are doing  there that we certainly are not doing. And there 's things that we 're doing that  they 're not doing. And  and they all seem like good things.


Good , OK. So , um So , we 'll  we 'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean , even with these results as they are , it 's  it 's  it 's really not that bad. But  but , uh , um And it looks like the overall result as they are now , even without , you know , any  any bugs being fixed is that , uh , on the  the other tasks , we had this average of , uh , forty uh  nine percent , or so , improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish , and somewhat worse than that on the German , but I mean , it sounds like , uh , one way or another , the methods that we 're doing can reduce the error rate from  from mel ceptrum  down by , you know  a fourth of them to , uh , a half of them. Somewhere in there , depending on the  exact case. So So that 's good. I mean , I think that , uh , one of the things that Hynek was talking about was understanding what was in the other really good proposals and  and trying to see if what should ultimately be proposed is some , uh , combination of things. Um , if , uh  Cuz there 's things that they are doing  there that we certainly are not doing. And there 's things that we 're doing that  they 're not doing. And  and they all seem like good things.


How much  how much better was the best system than ours ?


How much  how much better was the best system than ours ?

Uh , I mean , first place , there 's still this thing to  to work out , and second place  second thing is that the only results that we have so far from before were really development set results.


Uh , I mean , first place , there 's still this thing to  to work out , and second place  second thing is that the only results that we have so far from before were really development set results.


Uh , I mean , first place , there 's still this thing to  to work out , and second place  second thing is that the only results that we have so far from before were really development set results.

So , I think in this community that 's of interest. It 's not like everything is being pinned on the evaluation set. But , um , for the development set , our best result was a little bit short of fifty percent. And the best result of any system was about fifty - four , where these numbers are the , uh , relative , uh , reduction in , uh , word error rate.


So , I think in this community that 's of interest. It 's not like everything is being pinned on the evaluation set. But , um , for the development set , our best result was a little bit short of fifty percent. And the best result of any system was about fifty - four , where these numbers are the , uh , relative , uh , reduction in , uh , word error rate.

And , um , the other systems were , uh , somewhat lower than that. There was actually  there was much less of a huge range than there was in Aurora one. In Aurora one there were  there were systems that ba basically didn't improve things.


And , um , the other systems were , uh , somewhat lower than that. There was actually  there was much less of a huge range than there was in Aurora one. In Aurora one there were  there were systems that ba basically didn't improve things.

And here the  the worst system  still reduced the error rate by thirty - three percent , or something , in development set.


And here the  the worst system  still reduced the error rate by thirty - three percent , or something , in development set.

So  so , you know , sort of everybody is doing things between , well , roughly a third of the errors , and half the errors being eliminated ,  uh , and varying on different test sets and so forth.


So  so , you know , sort of everybody is doing things between , well , roughly a third of the errors , and half the errors being eliminated ,  uh , and varying on different test sets and so forth.

So I think Um  It 's probably a good time to look at what 's really going on and seeing if there 's a  there 's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of , uh , resources used , cuz that 's  that 's critical for this  this test.


So  so , you know , sort of everybody is doing things between , well , roughly a third of the errors , and half the errors being eliminated ,  uh , and varying on different test sets and so forth.

So I think Um  It 's probably a good time to look at what 's really going on and seeing if there 's a  there 's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of , uh , resources used , cuz that 's  that 's critical for this  this test.

Do we know anything about  who  who 's was it that had the lowest on the dev set ?


So I think Um  It 's probably a good time to look at what 's really going on and seeing if there 's a  there 's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of , uh , resources used , cuz that 's  that 's critical for this  this test.

Do we know anything about  who  who 's was it that had the lowest on the dev set ?

Um , uh , the , uh , the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of  of , uh , French Telecom and Alcatel. And , um they  they differed in some respects , but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System ,  uh , which is the biggest difference , I think. But  but there 're  there 're  there 're some other differences , too. Uh , and  and , uh , they both did very well ,


Do we know anything about  who  who 's was it that had the lowest on the dev set ?

Um , uh , the , uh , the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of  of , uh , French Telecom and Alcatel. And , um they  they differed in some respects , but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System ,  uh , which is the biggest difference , I think. But  but there 're  there 're  there 're some other differences , too. Uh , and  and , uh , they both did very well ,

you know ? So ,  um , my impression is they also did very well on  on the  the , uh , evaluation set , but , um , I  I we haven't seen  you 've - you haven't seen any final results for that


Um , uh , the , uh , the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of  of , uh , French Telecom and Alcatel. And , um they  they differed in some respects , but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System ,  uh , which is the biggest difference , I think. But  but there 're  there 're  there 're some other differences , too. Uh , and  and , uh , they both did very well ,

you know ? So ,  um , my impression is they also did very well on  on the  the , uh , evaluation set , but , um , I  I we haven't seen  you 've - you haven't seen any final results for that

And they used  the main thing that  that they used was spectral subtraction ?


you know ? So ,  um , my impression is they also did very well on  on the  the , uh , evaluation set , but , um , I  I we haven't seen  you 've - you haven't seen any final results for that

And they used  the main thing that  that they used was spectral subtraction ?


And they used  the main thing that  that they used was spectral subtraction ?

There is a couple pieces to it. There 's a spectral subtraction style piece  it was basically , you know , Wiener filtering. And then  then there was some p some modification of the cepstral parameters , where they


There is a couple pieces to it. There 's a spectral subtraction style piece  it was basically , you know , Wiener filtering. And then  then there was some p some modification of the cepstral parameters , where they

Yeah , actually , something that 's close to cepstral mean subtraction. But , uh , the way the mean is adapted  um , it 's signal dependent. I 'm  I 'm , uh So , basically , the mean is adapted during speech and not during silence.


There is a couple pieces to it. There 's a spectral subtraction style piece  it was basically , you know , Wiener filtering. And then  then there was some p some modification of the cepstral parameters , where they

Yeah , actually , something that 's close to cepstral mean subtraction. But , uh , the way the mean is adapted  um , it 's signal dependent. I 'm  I 'm , uh So , basically , the mean is adapted during speech and not during silence.

But it 's very close to  to cepstral mean subtraction.


Yeah , actually , something that 's close to cepstral mean subtraction. But , uh , the way the mean is adapted  um , it 's signal dependent. I 'm  I 'm , uh So , basically , the mean is adapted during speech and not during silence.

But it 's very close to  to cepstral mean subtraction.

But some people have done   exactly that sort of thing , of  of  and the  I mean it 's not  To  to look in  speech only , to try to m to measure these things during speech ,


But it 's very close to  to cepstral mean subtraction.

But some people have done   exactly that sort of thing , of  of  and the  I mean it 's not  To  to look in  speech only , to try to m to measure these things during speech ,


But it 's very close to  to cepstral mean subtraction.

But some people have done   exactly that sort of thing , of  of  and the  I mean it 's not  To  to look in  speech only , to try to m to measure these things during speech ,

that 's p that 's not that uncommon. But i it it  so it looks like they did some  some , uh , reasonable things , uh , and they 're not things that we did , precisely. We did unreasonable things ,  which  because we like to try strange things , and  and , uh , and our things worked too.


But some people have done   exactly that sort of thing , of  of  and the  I mean it 's not  To  to look in  speech only , to try to m to measure these things during speech ,

that 's p that 's not that uncommon. But i it it  so it looks like they did some  some , uh , reasonable things , uh , and they 're not things that we did , precisely. We did unreasonable things ,  which  because we like to try strange things , and  and , uh , and our things worked too.


that 's p that 's not that uncommon. But i it it  so it looks like they did some  some , uh , reasonable things , uh , and they 're not things that we did , precisely. We did unreasonable things ,  which  because we like to try strange things , and  and , uh , and our things worked too.

And so , um , uh , it 's possible that some combination of these different things that were done would be the best thing to do. But the only caveat to that is that everybody 's being real conscious of how much memory and how much CPU they 're using


And so , um , uh , it 's possible that some combination of these different things that were done would be the best thing to do. But the only caveat to that is that everybody 's being real conscious of how much memory and how much CPU they 're using

because these ,    uh , standards are supposed to go on cell phones with m moderate resources in both respects.


And so , um , uh , it 's possible that some combination of these different things that were done would be the best thing to do. But the only caveat to that is that everybody 's being real conscious of how much memory and how much CPU they 're using

because these ,    uh , standards are supposed to go on cell phones with m moderate resources in both respects.

Did anybody , uh , do anything with the models as a  an experiment ? Or


because these ,    uh , standards are supposed to go on cell phones with m moderate resources in both respects.

Did anybody , uh , do anything with the models as a  an experiment ? Or

Uh , they didn't report it , if they did.


Did anybody , uh , do anything with the models as a  an experiment ? Or

Uh , they didn't report it , if they did.

Yeah. I think everybody was focused elsewhere. Um , now , one of the things that 's nice about what we did is , we do have a  a , uh  a filtering , which leads to a  a , uh  a reduction in the bandwidth in the modulation spectrum , which allows us to downsample. So , uh , as a result of that we have a reduced , um , transmission rate for the bits.


Uh , they didn't report it , if they did.

Yeah. I think everybody was focused elsewhere. Um , now , one of the things that 's nice about what we did is , we do have a  a , uh  a filtering , which leads to a  a , uh  a reduction in the bandwidth in the modulation spectrum , which allows us to downsample. So , uh , as a result of that we have a reduced , um , transmission rate for the bits.


Yeah. I think everybody was focused elsewhere. Um , now , one of the things that 's nice about what we did is , we do have a  a , uh  a filtering , which leads to a  a , uh  a reduction in the bandwidth in the modulation spectrum , which allows us to downsample. So , uh , as a result of that we have a reduced , um , transmission rate for the bits.

That was misreported the first time out. It  it said the same amount because for convenience sake in the particular way that this is being tested , uh , they were repeating the packets. So it was  they were s they  they had twenty - four hundred bits per second , but they were literally creating forty - eight hundred bits per second ,  um , even though y it was just repeated.


That was misreported the first time out. It  it said the same amount because for convenience sake in the particular way that this is being tested , uh , they were repeating the packets. So it was  they were s they  they had twenty - four hundred bits per second , but they were literally creating forty - eight hundred bits per second ,  um , even though y it was just repeated.


That was misreported the first time out. It  it said the same amount because for convenience sake in the particular way that this is being tested , uh , they were repeating the packets. So it was  they were s they  they had twenty - four hundred bits per second , but they were literally creating forty - eight hundred bits per second ,  um , even though y it was just repeated.

So you could 've had a repeat count in there or something.


So you could 've had a repeat count in there or something.

Well , n I mean , this was just a ph phoney thing just to  to fit into the  the software that was testing the errors  channel errors and so on.


So you could 've had a repeat count in there or something.

Well , n I mean , this was just a ph phoney thing just to  to fit into the  the software that was testing the errors  channel errors and so on.

So  so in reality , if you put this  this system in into , uh , the field , it would be twenty - four hundred bits per second , not forty - eight hundred. So , um , so that 's a nice feature of what  what we did. Um , but , um , well , we still have to see how it all comes out.


Well , n I mean , this was just a ph phoney thing just to  to fit into the  the software that was testing the errors  channel errors and so on.

So  so in reality , if you put this  this system in into , uh , the field , it would be twenty - four hundred bits per second , not forty - eight hundred. So , um , so that 's a nice feature of what  what we did. Um , but , um , well , we still have to see how it all comes out.


So  so in reality , if you put this  this system in into , uh , the field , it would be twenty - four hundred bits per second , not forty - eight hundred. So , um , so that 's a nice feature of what  what we did. Um , but , um , well , we still have to see how it all comes out.

Um , and then there 's the whole standards process , which is another thing altogether.


So  so in reality , if you put this  this system in into , uh , the field , it would be twenty - four hundred bits per second , not forty - eight hundred. So , um , so that 's a nice feature of what  what we did. Um , but , um , well , we still have to see how it all comes out.

Um , and then there 's the whole standards process , which is another thing altogether.

When is the development set  I mean , the , uh , uh , test set results due ? Like the day before you leave or something ?


Um , and then there 's the whole standards process , which is another thing altogether.

When is the development set  I mean , the , uh , uh , test set results due ? Like the day before you leave or something ?

Uh , probably the day after they leave , but we 'll have to   we 'll have to stop it the day before  we leave.


When is the development set  I mean , the , uh , uh , test set results due ? Like the day before you leave or something ?

Uh , probably the day after they leave , but we 'll have to   we 'll have to stop it the day before  we leave.


Uh , probably the day after they leave , but we 'll have to   we 'll have to stop it the day before  we leave.

I think tha I think the  the meeting is on the thirteenth or something.


I think tha I think the  the meeting is on the thirteenth or something.


I think tha I think the  the meeting is on the thirteenth or something.

And , uh , they , uh Right. And the  the , uh , results are due like the day before the meeting or something. So


And , uh , they , uh Right. And the  the , uh , results are due like the day before the meeting or something. So


yeah. So   um , since we have a bit farther to travel than  some of the others ,  uh , we 'll have to get done a little quicker. But , um , I mean , it 's just tracing down these bugs. I mean , just exactly this sort of thing of , you know , why  why these features seem to be behaving differently , uh , in California than in Oregon.


yeah. So   um , since we have a bit farther to travel than  some of the others ,  uh , we 'll have to get done a little quicker. But , um , I mean , it 's just tracing down these bugs. I mean , just exactly this sort of thing of , you know , why  why these features seem to be behaving differently , uh , in California than in Oregon.

Might have something to do with electricity shortage. Uh , we didn't  we didn't have enough electrons here and Uh , but , um Uh , I think , you know , the main reason for having  I mean , it only takes w to run the  the two test sets in  just in computer time is just a day or so , right ?


Might have something to do with electricity shortage. Uh , we didn't  we didn't have enough electrons here and Uh , but , um Uh , I think , you know , the main reason for having  I mean , it only takes w to run the  the two test sets in  just in computer time is just a day or so , right ?


yeah. So , I think the who the whole reason for having as long as we have , which was  like a week and a half , is  is because of bugs like that. So Huh So , we 're gonna end up with these same kind of sheets that have the  the percentages and so on just for the


yeah. So , I think the who the whole reason for having as long as we have , which was  like a week and a half , is  is because of bugs like that. So Huh So , we 're gonna end up with these same kind of sheets that have the  the percentages and so on just for the

Yeah , so there are two more columns in the sheets ,


Yeah , so there are two more columns in the sheets ,


just with the missing columns filled in.


just with the missing columns filled in.

Yeah. Well , that 'll be good. So , I 'll dis I 'll disregard these numbers. That 's  that 's  that 's good.


just with the missing columns filled in.

Yeah. Well , that 'll be good. So , I 'll dis I 'll disregard these numbers. That 's  that 's  that 's good.

So , Hynek will try to push for trying to combine , uh , different things ? Or Hmm ?


Yeah. Well , that 'll be good. So , I 'll dis I 'll disregard these numbers. That 's  that 's  that 's good.

So , Hynek will try to push for trying to combine , uh , different things ? Or Hmm ?

Uh , well that 's  um yeah I mean , I think the question is " Is there  is there some advantage ? " I mean , you could just take the best system and say that 's the standard. But the thing is that if different systems are getting at good things , um , a again within the constraint of the resources , if there 's something simple that you can do Now for instance , uh , it 's , I think , very reasonable to have a standard for the terminal 's side and then for the server 's side say , " Here 's a number of things that could be done. " So , um , everything that we did could probably just be added on to what Alcatel did , and i it 'd probably work pretty well with them , too. So , um , uh , that 's one  one aspect of it. And then on the terminal 's side , I don't know how much , um , memory and  and CPU it takes , but it seems like the filtering  Uh , I mean , the VAD stuff they both had , right ? And , um , so  and they both had some kind of on - line normalization , right ?


So , Hynek will try to push for trying to combine , uh , different things ? Or Hmm ?

Uh , well that 's  um yeah I mean , I think the question is " Is there  is there some advantage ? " I mean , you could just take the best system and say that 's the standard. But the thing is that if different systems are getting at good things , um , a again within the constraint of the resources , if there 's something simple that you can do Now for instance , uh , it 's , I think , very reasonable to have a standard for the terminal 's side and then for the server 's side say , " Here 's a number of things that could be done. " So , um , everything that we did could probably just be added on to what Alcatel did , and i it 'd probably work pretty well with them , too. So , um , uh , that 's one  one aspect of it. And then on the terminal 's side , I don't know how much , um , memory and  and CPU it takes , but it seems like the filtering  Uh , I mean , the VAD stuff they both had , right ? And , um , so  and they both had some kind of on - line normalization , right ?

Of sorts , yeah ? So  so , it seems like the main different there is the  is the , uh , filtering. And the filtering  I think if you can  shouldn't take a lot of memory to do that Uh , and I also wouldn't think the CPU , uh , would be much either for that part. So , if you can  if you can add those in  um  then , uh , you can cut the data rate in half.


Uh , well that 's  um yeah I mean , I think the question is " Is there  is there some advantage ? " I mean , you could just take the best system and say that 's the standard. But the thing is that if different systems are getting at good things , um , a again within the constraint of the resources , if there 's something simple that you can do Now for instance , uh , it 's , I think , very reasonable to have a standard for the terminal 's side and then for the server 's side say , " Here 's a number of things that could be done. " So , um , everything that we did could probably just be added on to what Alcatel did , and i it 'd probably work pretty well with them , too. So , um , uh , that 's one  one aspect of it. And then on the terminal 's side , I don't know how much , um , memory and  and CPU it takes , but it seems like the filtering  Uh , I mean , the VAD stuff they both had , right ? And , um , so  and they both had some kind of on - line normalization , right ?

Of sorts , yeah ? So  so , it seems like the main different there is the  is the , uh , filtering. And the filtering  I think if you can  shouldn't take a lot of memory to do that Uh , and I also wouldn't think the CPU , uh , would be much either for that part. So , if you can  if you can add those in  um  then , uh , you can cut the data rate in half.


Of sorts , yeah ? So  so , it seems like the main different there is the  is the , uh , filtering. And the filtering  I think if you can  shouldn't take a lot of memory to do that Uh , and I also wouldn't think the CPU , uh , would be much either for that part. So , if you can  if you can add those in  um  then , uh , you can cut the data rate in half.

So it seems like the right thing to do is to  on the  on the terminal 's side , take what they did , if it  if it does seem to generalize well to German and Danish , uh , take what they did add in a filter , and add in some stuff on the server 's side and  and  and that 's probably a reasonable standard. Um  Uh


Of sorts , yeah ? So  so , it seems like the main different there is the  is the , uh , filtering. And the filtering  I think if you can  shouldn't take a lot of memory to do that Uh , and I also wouldn't think the CPU , uh , would be much either for that part. So , if you can  if you can add those in  um  then , uh , you can cut the data rate in half.

So it seems like the right thing to do is to  on the  on the terminal 's side , take what they did , if it  if it does seem to generalize well to German and Danish , uh , take what they did add in a filter , and add in some stuff on the server 's side and  and  and that 's probably a reasonable standard. Um  Uh

They are working on this already ? Because  yeah , Su - Sunil told me that he was trying already to put some kind of , uh , filtering in the   France Telecom.


So it seems like the right thing to do is to  on the  on the terminal 's side , take what they did , if it  if it does seem to generalize well to German and Danish , uh , take what they did add in a filter , and add in some stuff on the server 's side and  and  and that 's probably a reasonable standard. Um  Uh

They are working on this already ? Because  yeah , Su - Sunil told me that he was trying already to put some kind of , uh , filtering in the   France Telecom.

Yeah , so that 's  that 's  that 's what That would be ideal  would be is that they could , you know , they could actually show that , in fact , a combination of some sort ,  uh , would work even better than what  what any of the systems had. And , um , then it would  it would , uh  be something to  to discuss in the meeting. But , uh , not clear what will go on. Um , I mean , on the one hand , um , sometimes people are just anxious to get a standard out there. I mean , you can always have another standard after that , but  this process has gone on for a while on  already and  and people might just wanna pick something and say , " OK , this is it. " And then , that 's a standard. Uh , standards are always optional. It 's just that , uh , if you disobey them , then you risk not being able to sell your product , or   Uh  um And people often work on new standards while an old standard is in place and so on. So it 's not final even if they declared a standard. The other hand , they might just say they just don't know enough yet to  to declare a standard. So you  you  you will be  you will become experts on this and know more  far more than me about the tha this particular standards process once you  you go to this meeting. So , be interested in hearing. So , uh , I 'd be , uh , interested in hearing , uh , your thoughts now I mean you 're almost done. I mean , you 're done in the sense that , um , you may be able to get some new features from Sunil , and we 'll re - run it. Uh , but other than that , you 're  you 're basically done , right ? So , uh , I 'm interested in hearing  hearing your thoughts about  where you think we should go from this.


They are working on this already ? Because  yeah , Su - Sunil told me that he was trying already to put some kind of , uh , filtering in the   France Telecom.

Yeah , so that 's  that 's  that 's what That would be ideal  would be is that they could , you know , they could actually show that , in fact , a combination of some sort ,  uh , would work even better than what  what any of the systems had. And , um , then it would  it would , uh  be something to  to discuss in the meeting. But , uh , not clear what will go on. Um , I mean , on the one hand , um , sometimes people are just anxious to get a standard out there. I mean , you can always have another standard after that , but  this process has gone on for a while on  already and  and people might just wanna pick something and say , " OK , this is it. " And then , that 's a standard. Uh , standards are always optional. It 's just that , uh , if you disobey them , then you risk not being able to sell your product , or   Uh  um And people often work on new standards while an old standard is in place and so on. So it 's not final even if they declared a standard. The other hand , they might just say they just don't know enough yet to  to declare a standard. So you  you  you will be  you will become experts on this and know more  far more than me about the tha this particular standards process once you  you go to this meeting. So , be interested in hearing. So , uh , I 'd be , uh , interested in hearing , uh , your thoughts now I mean you 're almost done. I mean , you 're done in the sense that , um , you may be able to get some new features from Sunil , and we 'll re - run it. Uh , but other than that , you 're  you 're basically done , right ? So , uh , I 'm interested in hearing  hearing your thoughts about  where you think we should go from this.

I mean , we tried a lot of things in a hurry , and , uh , if we can back off from this now and sort of take our time with something , and not have doing things quickly be quite so much the constraint , what  what you think would be the best thing to do.


Yeah , so that 's  that 's  that 's what That would be ideal  would be is that they could , you know , they could actually show that , in fact , a combination of some sort ,  uh , would work even better than what  what any of the systems had. And , um , then it would  it would , uh  be something to  to discuss in the meeting. But , uh , not clear what will go on. Um , I mean , on the one hand , um , sometimes people are just anxious to get a standard out there. I mean , you can always have another standard after that , but  this process has gone on for a while on  already and  and people might just wanna pick something and say , " OK , this is it. " And then , that 's a standard. Uh , standards are always optional. It 's just that , uh , if you disobey them , then you risk not being able to sell your product , or   Uh  um And people often work on new standards while an old standard is in place and so on. So it 's not final even if they declared a standard. The other hand , they might just say they just don't know enough yet to  to declare a standard. So you  you  you will be  you will become experts on this and know more  far more than me about the tha this particular standards process once you  you go to this meeting. So , be interested in hearing. So , uh , I 'd be , uh , interested in hearing , uh , your thoughts now I mean you 're almost done. I mean , you 're done in the sense that , um , you may be able to get some new features from Sunil , and we 'll re - run it. Uh , but other than that , you 're  you 're basically done , right ? So , uh , I 'm interested in hearing  hearing your thoughts about  where you think we should go from this.

I mean , we tried a lot of things in a hurry , and , uh , if we can back off from this now and sort of take our time with something , and not have doing things quickly be quite so much the constraint , what  what you think would be the best thing to do.

Uh , well Hmm Well , first , uh , to really have a look at  at the speech   from these databases because , well , we tried several thing , but we did not really look  at what what 's happening , and  where is the noise , and


I mean , we tried a lot of things in a hurry , and , uh , if we can back off from this now and sort of take our time with something , and not have doing things quickly be quite so much the constraint , what  what you think would be the best thing to do.

Uh , well Hmm Well , first , uh , to really have a look at  at the speech   from these databases because , well , we tried several thing , but we did not really look  at what what 's happening , and  where is the noise , and


Uh , well Hmm Well , first , uh , to really have a look at  at the speech   from these databases because , well , we tried several thing , but we did not really look  at what what 's happening , and  where is the noise , and

It 's a novel idea. Look at the data. OK.


It 's a novel idea. Look at the data. OK.


It 's a novel idea. Look at the data. OK.

Or more generally , I guess , what  what is causing the degradation.


It 's a novel idea. Look at the data. OK.

Or more generally , I guess , what  what is causing the degradation.

Yeah , yeah. Actually , there is one thing that  well  Um , generally we  we think that  most of the errors are within phoneme classes , and so I think it could be interesting to  to see if it  I don't think it 's still true when we add noise , and  so we have  I  I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when  when we have noise , and when it 's clean speech. And probably , there is much more  between classes errors for noisy speech.


Or more generally , I guess , what  what is causing the degradation.

Yeah , yeah. Actually , there is one thing that  well  Um , generally we  we think that  most of the errors are within phoneme classes , and so I think it could be interesting to  to see if it  I don't think it 's still true when we add noise , and  so we have  I  I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when  when we have noise , and when it 's clean speech. And probably , there is much more  between classes errors for noisy speech.


Or more generally , I guess , what  what is causing the degradation.

Yeah , yeah. Actually , there is one thing that  well  Um , generally we  we think that  most of the errors are within phoneme classes , and so I think it could be interesting to  to see if it  I don't think it 's still true when we add noise , and  so we have  I  I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when  when we have noise , and when it 's clean speech. And probably , there is much more  between classes errors for noisy speech.

And  so , um Yeah , so perhaps we could have a  a large gain , eh , just by looking at improving the , uh , recognition , not of phonemes , but of phoneme classes , simply.


Yeah , yeah. Actually , there is one thing that  well  Um , generally we  we think that  most of the errors are within phoneme classes , and so I think it could be interesting to  to see if it  I don't think it 's still true when we add noise , and  so we have  I  I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when  when we have noise , and when it 's clean speech. And probably , there is much more  between classes errors for noisy speech.

And  so , um Yeah , so perhaps we could have a  a large gain , eh , just by looking at improving the , uh , recognition , not of phonemes , but of phoneme classes , simply.


And  so , um Yeah , so perhaps we could have a  a large gain , eh , just by looking at improving the , uh , recognition , not of phonemes , but of phoneme classes , simply.

And  which is a s a s a simpler problem , perhaps , but  which is perhaps important for noisy speech.


And  so , um Yeah , so perhaps we could have a  a large gain , eh , just by looking at improving the , uh , recognition , not of phonemes , but of phoneme classes , simply.

And  which is a s a s a simpler problem , perhaps , but  which is perhaps important for noisy speech.

The other thing that strikes me , just looking at these numbers is , just taking the best cases , I mean , some of these , of course , even with all of our  our wonderful processing , still are horrible kinds of numbers. But just take the best case , the well - matched  uh , German case after  er well - matched Danish after we


And  which is a s a s a simpler problem , perhaps , but  which is perhaps important for noisy speech.

The other thing that strikes me , just looking at these numbers is , just taking the best cases , I mean , some of these , of course , even with all of our  our wonderful processing , still are horrible kinds of numbers. But just take the best case , the well - matched  uh , German case after  er well - matched Danish after we


And  which is a s a s a simpler problem , perhaps , but  which is perhaps important for noisy speech.

The other thing that strikes me , just looking at these numbers is , just taking the best cases , I mean , some of these , of course , even with all of our  our wonderful processing , still are horrible kinds of numbers. But just take the best case , the well - matched  uh , German case after  er well - matched Danish after we

the kind of numbers we 're getting are about eight or nine  uh  p percent  error  per digit.


The other thing that strikes me , just looking at these numbers is , just taking the best cases , I mean , some of these , of course , even with all of our  our wonderful processing , still are horrible kinds of numbers. But just take the best case , the well - matched  uh , German case after  er well - matched Danish after we

the kind of numbers we 're getting are about eight or nine  uh  p percent  error  per digit.


the kind of numbers we 're getting are about eight or nine  uh  p percent  error  per digit.


I mean , if you have ten digits for a phone number  I mean , every now and then you 'll get it right. I mean , it 's  it 's , uh ,  um So , I mean , the other thing is that , uh  And  and  a and  and also , um  part of what 's nice about this is that this is , uh ,  um  a realistic  almost realistic database. I mean , it 's still not people who are really trying to accomplish something , but  but , uh , within the artificial setup , it isn't noise artificially added , you know , simulated , uh , additive noise.


I mean , if you have ten digits for a phone number  I mean , every now and then you 'll get it right. I mean , it 's  it 's , uh ,  um So , I mean , the other thing is that , uh  And  and  a and  and also , um  part of what 's nice about this is that this is , uh ,  um  a realistic  almost realistic database. I mean , it 's still not people who are really trying to accomplish something , but  but , uh , within the artificial setup , it isn't noise artificially added , you know , simulated , uh , additive noise.

It 's real noise condition. And , um ,  the  the training  the training , I guess , is always done on the close talking


I mean , if you have ten digits for a phone number  I mean , every now and then you 'll get it right. I mean , it 's  it 's , uh ,  um So , I mean , the other thing is that , uh  And  and  a and  and also , um  part of what 's nice about this is that this is , uh ,  um  a realistic  almost realistic database. I mean , it 's still not people who are really trying to accomplish something , but  but , uh , within the artificial setup , it isn't noise artificially added , you know , simulated , uh , additive noise.

It 's real noise condition. And , um ,  the  the training  the training , I guess , is always done on the close talking

No , actually  actually the well - matched condition  is  still quite di still quite difficult.


It 's real noise condition. And , um ,  the  the training  the training , I guess , is always done on the close talking

No , actually  actually the well - matched condition  is  still quite di still quite difficult.


It 's real noise condition. And , um ,  the  the training  the training , I guess , is always done on the close talking

No , actually  actually the well - matched condition  is  still quite di still quite difficult.

I mean , it 's  they have all these data from the close mike and from the distant mike ,  from different driving condition , open window , closed window ,


No , actually  actually the well - matched condition  is  still quite di still quite difficult.

I mean , it 's  they have all these data from the close mike and from the distant mike ,  from different driving condition , open window , closed window ,


I mean , it 's  they have all these data from the close mike and from the distant mike ,  from different driving condition , open window , closed window ,

and they take all of this and they take seventy percent , I think , for training and thirty percent for testing.


and they take all of this and they take seventy percent , I think , for training and thirty percent for testing.

So , training is done  on different conditions and different microphones , and testing also is done  on different microphone and conditions. So , probably if we only take the close microphones ,  I guess the results should be much much better than this.


So , training is done  on different conditions and different microphones , and testing also is done  on different microphone and conditions. So , probably if we only take the close microphones ,  I guess the results should be much much better than this.


that explains it partially. Wha - what about i in  so the  the


that explains it partially. Wha - what about i in  so the  the

Yeah , so  there is this , the mismatched is , um  the same kind of thing ,


that explains it partially. Wha - what about i in  so the  the

Yeah , so  there is this , the mismatched is , um  the same kind of thing ,

but  the driving conditions , I mean the speed and the kind of road , is different for training and testing , is that right ?


Yeah , so  there is this , the mismatched is , um  the same kind of thing ,

but  the driving conditions , I mean the speed and the kind of road , is different for training and testing , is that right ?


but  the driving conditions , I mean the speed and the kind of road , is different for training and testing , is that right ?

And the last condition is close microphone for training and distant for testing. Yeah.


And the last condition is close microphone for training and distant for testing. Yeah.


And the last condition is close microphone for training and distant for testing. Yeah.

so I see. So , yeah , so the high  so the  right  so the highly mismatched  case  is in some sense a good model for what we 've been , you know , typically talking about when we talk about additive noise in  And so  and i i k it does correspond to a realistic situation in the sense that ,  um , people might really be trying to , uh , call out telephone numbers or some or something like that , in  in their cars


so I see. So , yeah , so the high  so the  right  so the highly mismatched  case  is in some sense a good model for what we 've been , you know , typically talking about when we talk about additive noise in  And so  and i i k it does correspond to a realistic situation in the sense that ,  um , people might really be trying to , uh , call out telephone numbers or some or something like that , in  in their cars


so I see. So , yeah , so the high  so the  right  so the highly mismatched  case  is in some sense a good model for what we 've been , you know , typically talking about when we talk about additive noise in  And so  and i i k it does correspond to a realistic situation in the sense that ,  um , people might really be trying to , uh , call out telephone numbers or some or something like that , in  in their cars

and they 're trying to connect to something.


and they 're trying to connect to something.


and they 're trying to connect to something.

Actually , yeah , it 's very close to clean speech training because , well , because the close microphone  and noisy speech testing ,


Actually , yeah , it 's very close to clean speech training because , well , because the close microphone  and noisy speech testing ,


Actually , yeah , it 's very close to clean speech training because , well , because the close microphone  and noisy speech testing ,

Yeah. And the well - matched condition  is what you might imagine that you might be able to approach , if you know that this is the application. You 're gonna record a bunch on people in cars and so forth , and do these training. And then , uh , when y you sell it to somebody , they will be a different person with a different car , and so on. So it 's  this is a an optim somewhat optimistic view on it , uh , so , you know , the real thing is somewhere in between the two.


Yeah. And the well - matched condition  is what you might imagine that you might be able to approach , if you know that this is the application. You 're gonna record a bunch on people in cars and so forth , and do these training. And then , uh , when y you sell it to somebody , they will be a different person with a different car , and so on. So it 's  this is a an optim somewhat optimistic view on it , uh , so , you know , the real thing is somewhere in between the two.


right. Right , it doesn't work. So , in a way , that 's , you know , that 's sort of the dominant thing is that even , say on the development set stuff that we saw , the , uh , the numbers that , uh , that Alcatel was getting when choosing out the best single numbers ,  it was just  you know , it wasn't good enough for  for  a  a  for a real system.


right. Right , it doesn't work. So , in a way , that 's , you know , that 's sort of the dominant thing is that even , say on the development set stuff that we saw , the , uh , the numbers that , uh , that Alcatel was getting when choosing out the best single numbers ,  it was just  you know , it wasn't good enough for  for  a  a  for a real system.

You  you  you ,  um So , uh , we still have stuff to do.


You  you  you ,  um So , uh , we still have stuff to do.

Uh , and , uh I don't know So , looking at the data , where , you know  what 's the  what 's  what 's th what 's characteristic i e yeah , I think that 's  that 's a good thing. Does a any you have any thoughts about what else  y you 're thinking that you didn't get to that you would like to do if you had more time ? Uh


You  you  you ,  um So , uh , we still have stuff to do.

Uh , and , uh I don't know So , looking at the data , where , you know  what 's the  what 's  what 's th what 's characteristic i e yeah , I think that 's  that 's a good thing. Does a any you have any thoughts about what else  y you 're thinking that you didn't get to that you would like to do if you had more time ? Uh

Oh , f a lot of thing. Because we trying a lot of s  thing , and we doesn't work ,  we remove these. Maybe  we trying again with the articulatory feature. I don't know exactly because we tried  we  some  one experiment that doesn't work. Um , forgot it , something  I don't know exactly


Uh , and , uh I don't know So , looking at the data , where , you know  what 's the  what 's  what 's th what 's characteristic i e yeah , I think that 's  that 's a good thing. Does a any you have any thoughts about what else  y you 're thinking that you didn't get to that you would like to do if you had more time ? Uh

Oh , f a lot of thing. Because we trying a lot of s  thing , and we doesn't work ,  we remove these. Maybe  we trying again with the articulatory feature. I don't know exactly because we tried  we  some  one experiment that doesn't work. Um , forgot it , something  I don't know exactly


Uh , and , uh I don't know So , looking at the data , where , you know  what 's the  what 's  what 's th what 's characteristic i e yeah , I think that 's  that 's a good thing. Does a any you have any thoughts about what else  y you 're thinking that you didn't get to that you would like to do if you had more time ? Uh

Oh , f a lot of thing. Because we trying a lot of s  thing , and we doesn't work ,  we remove these. Maybe  we trying again with the articulatory feature. I don't know exactly because we tried  we  some  one experiment that doesn't work. Um , forgot it , something  I don't know exactly

because , tsk   maybe do better some step the general ,  eh , diagram.


Oh , f a lot of thing. Because we trying a lot of s  thing , and we doesn't work ,  we remove these. Maybe  we trying again with the articulatory feature. I don't know exactly because we tried  we  some  one experiment that doesn't work. Um , forgot it , something  I don't know exactly

because , tsk   maybe do better some step the general ,  eh , diagram.


because , tsk   maybe do better some step the general ,  eh , diagram.

I don't know exactly s to think what we can improve.


because , tsk   maybe do better some step the general ,  eh , diagram.

I don't know exactly s to think what we can improve.

Yeah , cuz a lot of time it 's true , there were a lot of times when we 've tried something and it didn't work right away , even though we had an intuition that there should be something there. And so then we would just stop it. Um And , uh , one of the things  I don't remember the details on , but I remember at some point , when you were working with a second stream , and you tried a low - pass filtering to cepstrum , in some case you got


I don't know exactly s to think what we can improve.

Yeah , cuz a lot of time it 's true , there were a lot of times when we 've tried something and it didn't work right away , even though we had an intuition that there should be something there. And so then we would just stop it. Um And , uh , one of the things  I don't remember the details on , but I remember at some point , when you were working with a second stream , and you tried a low - pass filtering to cepstrum , in some case you got


I don't know exactly s to think what we can improve.

Yeah , cuz a lot of time it 's true , there were a lot of times when we 've tried something and it didn't work right away , even though we had an intuition that there should be something there. And so then we would just stop it. Um And , uh , one of the things  I don't remember the details on , but I remember at some point , when you were working with a second stream , and you tried a low - pass filtering to cepstrum , in some case you got

Well , but it was  an MSG - like thing , but it wasn't MSG , right ? Uh , you  y I think in some case you got some little improvement , but it was , you know , sort of a small improvement , and it was a  a big added complication , so you dropped it. But , um , that was just sort of one try , right ? You just took one filter , threw it there ,


Yeah , cuz a lot of time it 's true , there were a lot of times when we 've tried something and it didn't work right away , even though we had an intuition that there should be something there. And so then we would just stop it. Um And , uh , one of the things  I don't remember the details on , but I remember at some point , when you were working with a second stream , and you tried a low - pass filtering to cepstrum , in some case you got

Well , but it was  an MSG - like thing , but it wasn't MSG , right ? Uh , you  y I think in some case you got some little improvement , but it was , you know , sort of a small improvement , and it was a  a big added complication , so you dropped it. But , um , that was just sort of one try , right ? You just took one filter , threw it there ,


Well , but it was  an MSG - like thing , but it wasn't MSG , right ? Uh , you  y I think in some case you got some little improvement , but it was , you know , sort of a small improvement , and it was a  a big added complication , so you dropped it. But , um , that was just sort of one try , right ? You just took one filter , threw it there ,

right ? And it seems to me that , um , if that is an important idea , which , you know , might be , that one could work at it for a while , as you 're saying.


right ? And it seems to me that , um , if that is an important idea , which , you know , might be , that one could work at it for a while , as you 're saying.

And , uh Uh , and you had , you know , you had the multi - band things also , and , you know , there was issue of that.


And , uh Uh , and you had , you know , you had the multi - band things also , and , you know , there was issue of that.

Um , Barry 's going to be , uh , continuing working on multi - band things as well.


Um , Barry 's going to be , uh , continuing working on multi - band things as well.

We were just talking about , um ,  some , uh , some work that we 're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the , uh  uh , learning articulatory feature in  I think , in the case of his paper  with sonorance based on , uh , multi - band information where you have a  a combination of gradient learning an and , uh , EM.


We were just talking about , um ,  some , uh , some work that we 're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the , uh  uh , learning articulatory feature in  I think , in the case of his paper  with sonorance based on , uh , multi - band information where you have a  a combination of gradient learning an and , uh , EM.

Um , and    Um , so , I think that , you know , this is a , uh  this is a neat data set. Um , and then , uh , as we mentioned before , we also have the  the new , uh , digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So , there 's a lot of things to work with. Um and , uh what I like about it , in a way , is that , uh , the results are still so terrible. Uh   Uh   I mean , they 're much better than they were , you know. We 're talking about thirty to sixty percent , uh , error rate reduction. That 's  that 's really great stuff to  to do that in relatively short time. But even after that it 's still , you know , so poor that  that , uh , no one could really use it. So , um I think that 's great that  because  and y also because again , it 's not something  sometimes we 've gotten terrible results by taking some data , and artificially , you know , convolving it with some room response , or something  we take a very  Uh , at one point , uh , Brian and I went downstairs into the  the basement where it was  it was in a hallway where it was very reverberant and we  we made some recordings there. And then we   we , uh  uh , made a simulation of the  of the room acoustics there and  and applied it to other things ,


Um , and    Um , so , I think that , you know , this is a , uh  this is a neat data set. Um , and then , uh , as we mentioned before , we also have the  the new , uh , digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So , there 's a lot of things to work with. Um and , uh what I like about it , in a way , is that , uh , the results are still so terrible. Uh   Uh   I mean , they 're much better than they were , you know. We 're talking about thirty to sixty percent , uh , error rate reduction. That 's  that 's really great stuff to  to do that in relatively short time. But even after that it 's still , you know , so poor that  that , uh , no one could really use it. So , um I think that 's great that  because  and y also because again , it 's not something  sometimes we 've gotten terrible results by taking some data , and artificially , you know , convolving it with some room response , or something  we take a very  Uh , at one point , uh , Brian and I went downstairs into the  the basement where it was  it was in a hallway where it was very reverberant and we  we made some recordings there. And then we   we , uh  uh , made a simulation of the  of the room acoustics there and  and applied it to other things ,

and uh But it was all pretty artificial , and  and , you know , how often would you really try to have your most crucial conversations in this very reverberant hallway ? Um  So , uh  This is what 's nice about the Aurora data and the data here , is that  is that it 's sort of a realistic room situation  uh , acoustics  acoustic situation , both terms in noise and reflections , and so on and n n And , uh , uh , with something that 's still relatively realistic , it 's still very very hard to do very well. So Yeah.


Um , and    Um , so , I think that , you know , this is a , uh  this is a neat data set. Um , and then , uh , as we mentioned before , we also have the  the new , uh , digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So , there 's a lot of things to work with. Um and , uh what I like about it , in a way , is that , uh , the results are still so terrible. Uh   Uh   I mean , they 're much better than they were , you know. We 're talking about thirty to sixty percent , uh , error rate reduction. That 's  that 's really great stuff to  to do that in relatively short time. But even after that it 's still , you know , so poor that  that , uh , no one could really use it. So , um I think that 's great that  because  and y also because again , it 's not something  sometimes we 've gotten terrible results by taking some data , and artificially , you know , convolving it with some room response , or something  we take a very  Uh , at one point , uh , Brian and I went downstairs into the  the basement where it was  it was in a hallway where it was very reverberant and we  we made some recordings there. And then we   we , uh  uh , made a simulation of the  of the room acoustics there and  and applied it to other things ,

and uh But it was all pretty artificial , and  and , you know , how often would you really try to have your most crucial conversations in this very reverberant hallway ? Um  So , uh  This is what 's nice about the Aurora data and the data here , is that  is that it 's sort of a realistic room situation  uh , acoustics  acoustic situation , both terms in noise and reflections , and so on and n n And , uh , uh , with something that 's still relatively realistic , it 's still very very hard to do very well. So Yeah.

Yeah , so d well Actually , this is  tha that 's why we  well , it 's a different kind of data. We 're not  we 're not used to work with this kind of data. That 's why we should have a loo more closer look at what 's going on.


and uh But it was all pretty artificial , and  and , you know , how often would you really try to have your most crucial conversations in this very reverberant hallway ? Um  So , uh  This is what 's nice about the Aurora data and the data here , is that  is that it 's sort of a realistic room situation  uh , acoustics  acoustic situation , both terms in noise and reflections , and so on and n n And , uh , uh , with something that 's still relatively realistic , it 's still very very hard to do very well. So Yeah.

Yeah , so d well Actually , this is  tha that 's why we  well , it 's a different kind of data. We 're not  we 're not used to work with this kind of data. That 's why we should have a loo more closer look at what 's going on.


Yeah , so d well Actually , this is  tha that 's why we  well , it 's a different kind of data. We 're not  we 're not used to work with this kind of data. That 's why we should have a loo more closer look at what 's going on.

Um Yeah. So this would be the first thing , and then , of course , try to  well ,  kind of debug what was wrong , eh , when we do Aurora test on the MSG  particularly , and on the multi - band.


Um Yeah. So this would be the first thing , and then , of course , try to  well ,  kind of debug what was wrong , eh , when we do Aurora test on the MSG  particularly , and on the multi - band.


Um Yeah. So this would be the first thing , and then , of course , try to  well ,  kind of debug what was wrong , eh , when we do Aurora test on the MSG  particularly , and on the multi - band.

Yeah. Yeah. No , I  I think there 's lots of  lots of good things to do with this. So Um So let 's  I guess  You were gonna say something else ? Oh , OK. What do you think ?


Yeah. Yeah. No , I  I think there 's lots of  lots of good things to do with this. So Um So let 's  I guess  You were gonna say something else ? Oh , OK. What do you think ?


Yeah. Yeah. No , I  I think there 's lots of  lots of good things to do with this. So Um So let 's  I guess  You were gonna say something else ? Oh , OK. What do you think ?

About other experiments ? Uh , now , I 'm interested in , um , uh  looking at the experiments where you use , um  uh , data from multiple languages to train the neural net. And I don't know how far , or if you guys even had a chance to try that , but  that would be some it 'd be interesting to me.


About other experiments ? Uh , now , I 'm interested in , um , uh  looking at the experiments where you use , um  uh , data from multiple languages to train the neural net. And I don't know how far , or if you guys even had a chance to try that , but  that would be some it 'd be interesting to me.


About other experiments ? Uh , now , I 'm interested in , um , uh  looking at the experiments where you use , um  uh , data from multiple languages to train the neural net. And I don't know how far , or if you guys even had a chance to try that , but  that would be some it 'd be interesting to me.

Again , it 's the kind of  of thing that , uh , we were thin thinking  thinking that it would work , but it didn't work. And , eh , so there is kind of  of  not a bug , but something wrong in what we are doing , perhaps.


Again , it 's the kind of  of thing that , uh , we were thin thinking  thinking that it would work , but it didn't work. And , eh , so there is kind of  of  not a bug , but something wrong in what we are doing , perhaps.


Again , it 's the kind of  of thing that , uh , we were thin thinking  thinking that it would work , but it didn't work. And , eh , so there is kind of  of  not a bug , but something wrong in what we are doing , perhaps.

Uh , something wrong , perhaps in the  just in the  the fact that the labels are


Uh , something wrong , perhaps in the  just in the  the fact that the labels are


What worked best is the hand - labeled data.


What worked best is the hand - labeled data.

Um Uh , so , yeah. I don't know if we can get some hand - labeled data from other languages.


Um Uh , so , yeah. I don't know if we can get some hand - labeled data from other languages.


But  that would be something interesting t to  to see.


But  that would be something interesting t to  to see.

Yeah. Also , uh ,  I mean , there was just the whole notion of having multiple nets that were trained on different data. So one form of different data was  is from different languages , but the other Well , i in fact , uh , m in those experiments it wasn't so much combining multiple nets , it was a single net that had different


Yeah. Also , uh ,  I mean , there was just the whole notion of having multiple nets that were trained on different data. So one form of different data was  is from different languages , but the other Well , i in fact , uh , m in those experiments it wasn't so much combining multiple nets , it was a single net that had different

So , first thing is would it be better if they were multiple nets , for some reason ? Second thing is , never mind the different languages , just having acoustic conditions rather than training them all up in one , would it be helpful to have different ones ? So , um That was a question that was kind of raised by Mike Shire 's thesis , and on  in that case in terms of reverberation. Right ? That  that sometimes it might be better to do that. But , um ,  I don't think we know for sure. So , um Right. So , next week , we , uh , won't meet because you 'll be in Europe. Whe - when are you two getting back ?


So , first thing is would it be better if they were multiple nets , for some reason ? Second thing is , never mind the different languages , just having acoustic conditions rather than training them all up in one , would it be helpful to have different ones ? So , um That was a question that was kind of raised by Mike Shire 's thesis , and on  in that case in terms of reverberation. Right ? That  that sometimes it might be better to do that. But , um ,  I don't think we know for sure. So , um Right. So , next week , we , uh , won't meet because you 'll be in Europe. Whe - when are you two getting back ?


because it 's  it 's less expensive , the price  the price the ticket.


because it 's  it 's less expensive , the price  the price the ticket.

Yeah , that 's right. You 've gotta S have a Saturday overnight , right ?


Yeah , that 's right. You 've gotta S have a Saturday overnight , right ?


Yeah. Yeah , yeah. Yep. Um  So , we 'll skip next week , and we 'll meet two weeks from now. And , uh , I guess the main topic will be , uh , you telling us what happened.


Yeah. Yeah , yeah. Yep. Um  So , we 'll skip next week , and we 'll meet two weeks from now. And , uh , I guess the main topic will be , uh , you telling us what happened.

Uh , so Yeah , well , if we don't have an anything else to discuss , we should , uh , turn off the machine and then say the real nasty things.


Uh , so Yeah , well , if we don't have an anything else to discuss , we should , uh , turn off the machine and then say the real nasty things.


Oh yeah , digits ! Yeah. Good point. Yeah , good thinking. Why don't you go ahead.


Okay. Uh first of all I'll start with the costs ,

because that's going to influence our design.


because that's going to influence our design.


because that's going to influence our design.

If you  Don't know if you al already had a look or not ?


If you  Don't know if you al already had a look or not ?


Um I already took the liberty to make some suggestions. . .  At the moment we have fifteen buttons , one L_C_D_ screen , one advanced chip-on-print. We use a uh sensor , that's for the speech. Uh we use kinetic energy. And we wanted uh the buttons in a special colour. Okay. What's the first thing we should drop ? The special colour of the buttons ?


Um I already took the liberty to make some suggestions. . .  At the moment we have fifteen buttons , one L_C_D_ screen , one advanced chip-on-print. We use a uh sensor , that's for the speech. Uh we use kinetic energy. And we wanted uh the buttons in a special colour. Okay. What's the first thing we should drop ? The special colour of the buttons ?

No that's that's for the trendy uh feel and look. So


No that's that's for the trendy uh feel and look. So


Uh that's the still the same idea as the kinetic energy because you have to use it and do things.


Um  Do we keep the shape doubly curved or g do we go for single curved ?


Um  Do we keep the shape doubly curved or g do we go for single curved ?

Well I guess i we'll have to go for single curve then. I mean we have to drop on everything.


Um  Do we keep the shape doubly curved or g do we go for single curved ?

Well I guess i we'll have to go for single curve then. I mean we have to drop on everything.

But we can keep it single curved with uh top view still curved , but from the side it's it's flat ,


Well I guess i we'll have to go for single curve then. I mean we have to drop on everything.

But we can keep it single curved with uh top view still curved , but from the side it's it's flat ,


But we can keep it single curved with uh top view still curved , but from the side it's it's flat ,

and the screen screen is just  Well you just have to hold it like this then. So


and the screen screen is just  Well you just have to hold it like this then. So


and the screen screen is just  Well you just have to hold it like this then. So

Uh another option I saw was to drop the buttons one through nine , so you can't directly access a channel , but instead use only the up and down arrows. That would skip nine buttons and four and a half Euros.


Uh another option I saw was to drop the buttons one through nine , so you can't directly access a channel , but instead use only the up and down arrows. That would skip nine buttons and four and a half Euros.


But we don't have any basic options any more.


But we don't have any basic options any more.

And uh 'cause then they don't have to n They don't need special colour as well.


And uh 'cause then they don't have to n They don't need special colour as well.


And uh 'cause then they don't have to n They don't need special colour as well.

They don't need special colours. Fine. That's more like it.


They don't need special colours. Fine. That's more like it.


They don't need special colours. Fine. That's more like it.

That was exactly my point. Like let's drop all the buttons , and just make one


That was exactly my point. Like let's drop all the buttons , and just make one


That was exactly my point. Like let's drop all the buttons , and just make one

I mean we're gonna use the L_C_D_ screen anyway. So we'll just have to use it for everything.


I mean we're gonna use the L_C_D_ screen anyway. So we'll just have to use it for everything.

And then you can make an overview of channels in the screen , and select a channel , click


I mean we're gonna use the L_C_D_ screen anyway. So we'll just have to use it for everything.

And then you can make an overview of channels in the screen , and select a channel , click

Yeah , some more menu options. Yeah. Okay so maybe we can drop few more buttons.


And then you can make an overview of channels in the screen , and select a channel , click

Yeah , some more menu options. Yeah. Okay so maybe we can drop few more buttons.


And then you can make an overview of channels in the screen , and select a channel , click

Yeah , some more menu options. Yeah. Okay so maybe we can drop few more buttons.

Yeah we c could  We only need the the the the the menu arrow arrow button uh thing. Everything you can do with with the menu. So  With the display.


Yeah , some more menu options. Yeah. Okay so maybe we can drop few more buttons.

Yeah we c could  We only need the the the the the menu arrow arrow button uh thing. Everything you can do with with the menu. So  With the display.


Yeah we c could  We only need the the the the the menu arrow arrow button uh thing. Everything you can do with with the menu. So  With the display.

Yeah we need one integrated button for everything then.


Yeah we need one integrated button for everything then.


Integrated scroll-wheel push-button , yeah.


Integrated scroll-wheel push-button , yeah.

If you go to our uh view , like you  if you are in the sound system there , uh and you wanna adjust the treble for instance ,


If you go to our uh view , like you  if you are in the sound system there , uh and you wanna adjust the treble for instance ,


y y you wanna see a bar on which you can adjust it from zero to ten for example.


y y you wanna see a bar on which you can adjust it from zero to ten for example.

But you want a sound preview of how it's gonna sound ,


But you want a sound preview of how it's gonna sound ,

right ? So you wanna click on it , activate it , whe and when you move it , hear the difference of the treble coming out or going into the sound.


right ? So you wanna click on it , activate it , whe and when you move it , hear the difference of the treble coming out or going into the sound.

So you'll you'll need a a kind of a joystick uh button.


right ? So you wanna click on it , activate it , whe and when you move it , hear the difference of the treble coming out or going into the sound.

So you'll you'll need a a kind of a joystick uh button.

Yeah or or the integrated scroll-wheel push-button.


So you'll you'll need a a kind of a joystick uh button.

Yeah or or the integrated scroll-wheel push-button.


So you'll you'll need a a kind of a joystick uh button.

Yeah or or the integrated scroll-wheel push-button.

So that's kind of on your mouse and then you can click it , adjust it , click again and then you're out of it.


Yeah or or the integrated scroll-wheel push-button.

So that's kind of on your mouse and then you can click it , adjust it , click again and then you're out of it.


So that's kind of on your mouse and then you can click it , adjust it , click again and then you're out of it.

But you still  But you then still need to have  Well you can use the scroll-wheel as well for um maybe for the channels. But you still um


But you still  But you then still need to have  Well you can use the scroll-wheel as well for um maybe for the channels. But you still um

You still have to have some some button in the menu to go back.


But you still  But you then still need to have  Well you can use the scroll-wheel as well for um maybe for the channels. But you still um

You still have to have some some button in the menu to go back.

So you do one inte You can do one integrated scroll-wheel push-button.


You still have to have some some button in the menu to go back.

So you do one inte You can do one integrated scroll-wheel push-button.


You still have to have some some button in the menu to go back.

So you do one inte You can do one integrated scroll-wheel push-button.

And then just drop all the other buttons.


So you do one inte You can do one integrated scroll-wheel push-button.

And then just drop all the other buttons.


And then just drop all the other buttons.


And then just drop all the other buttons.

But but th the cost of one integrated button is far more than a few extra push-buttons.


But but th the cost of one integrated button is far more than a few extra push-buttons.


But but th the cost of one integrated button is far more than a few extra push-buttons.

Yeah. It's uh  One integrated button is five times the cost of a normal button.


Yeah. It's uh  One integrated button is five times the cost of a normal button.


So we have to to make it s uh more uh  It has to be


So we have to to make it s uh more uh  It has to be

You could also drop j three more of these , without losing much functionality. You just drop the Okay and the Back.


So we have to to make it s uh more uh  It has to be

You could also drop j three more of these , without losing much functionality. You just drop the Okay and the Back.

Yeah. Wh wh what what what is the what is the uh sample sensor sample speaker ?


You could also drop j three more of these , without losing much functionality. You just drop the Okay and the Back.

Yeah. Wh wh what what what is the what is the uh sample sensor sample speaker ?


Yeah. Wh wh what what what is the what is the uh sample sensor sample speaker ?


Yeah it's it's expensive , but uh we never considered the possibilities of uh speech recognition. 'Cause it can take the function of a lot of uh uh buttons.


No , it can be disturbed by by noise and