Well , no , if we were to start with this and then tweak it h manually , would that  that would be OK ?


It  you know it really depends on a lot of things ,


It  you know it really depends on a lot of things ,

but , I would have maybe a transciber , uh , look at the result of a forced alignment and then adjust those.


It  you know it really depends on a lot of things ,

but , I would have maybe a transciber , uh , look at the result of a forced alignment and then adjust those.

Yeah. To a adjust them , or , yeah. Yeah , yeah.


but , I would have maybe a transciber , uh , look at the result of a forced alignment and then adjust those.

Yeah. To a adjust them , or , yeah. Yeah , yeah.


Yeah. To a adjust them , or , yeah. Yeah , yeah.

If they 're horrible it won't help at all , but they might not be horrible.


If they 're horrible it won't help at all , but they might not be horrible.


If they 're horrible it won't help at all , but they might not be horrible.

So  but I 'll let you know when we , uh , have that.


So  but I 'll let you know when we , uh , have that.

How many minutes would you want from  I mean , we could  easily , get a section , you know , like say a minute or so , from every meeting that we have so f from the newer ones that we 're working on , everyone that we have. And then , should provide this.


So  but I 'll let you know when we , uh , have that.

How many minutes would you want from  I mean , we could  easily , get a section , you know , like say a minute or so , from every meeting that we have so f from the newer ones that we 're working on , everyone that we have. And then , should provide this.

If it 's not the first minute of  of the meeting , that  that 's OK with me , but , in  in the first minute , uh , Often there are some  some strange things going on which  which aren't really , well , for , which  which aren't re re really good. So. What  what I 'd quite like , perhaps , is , to have , some five minutes of  of  of different meetings , so.


How many minutes would you want from  I mean , we could  easily , get a section , you know , like say a minute or so , from every meeting that we have so f from the newer ones that we 're working on , everyone that we have. And then , should provide this.

If it 's not the first minute of  of the meeting , that  that 's OK with me , but , in  in the first minute , uh , Often there are some  some strange things going on which  which aren't really , well , for , which  which aren't re re really good. So. What  what I 'd quite like , perhaps , is , to have , some five minutes of  of  of different meetings , so.

Somewhere not in the very beginning , five minutes , OK.


If it 's not the first minute of  of the meeting , that  that 's OK with me , but , in  in the first minute , uh , Often there are some  some strange things going on which  which aren't really , well , for , which  which aren't re re really good. So. What  what I 'd quite like , perhaps , is , to have , some five minutes of  of  of different meetings , so.

Somewhere not in the very beginning , five minutes , OK.

And , then I wanted to ask you just for my inter information , then , would you , be trai cuz I don't quite unders so , would you be training then , um , the segmenter so that , it could , on the basis of that , segment the rest of the meeting ? So , if I give you like  five minutes is the idea that this would then be applied to , uh , to , providing tighter time  bands ?


Somewhere not in the very beginning , five minutes , OK.

And , then I wanted to ask you just for my inter information , then , would you , be trai cuz I don't quite unders so , would you be training then , um , the segmenter so that , it could , on the basis of that , segment the rest of the meeting ? So , if I give you like  five minutes is the idea that this would then be applied to , uh , to , providing tighter time  bands ?

I  I could do a  a retraining with that , yeah.


And , then I wanted to ask you just for my inter information , then , would you , be trai cuz I don't quite unders so , would you be training then , um , the segmenter so that , it could , on the basis of that , segment the rest of the meeting ? So , if I give you like  five minutes is the idea that this would then be applied to , uh , to , providing tighter time  bands ?

I  I could do a  a retraining with that , yeah.


And , then I wanted to ask you just for my inter information , then , would you , be trai cuz I don't quite unders so , would you be training then , um , the segmenter so that , it could , on the basis of that , segment the rest of the meeting ? So , if I give you like  five minutes is the idea that this would then be applied to , uh , to , providing tighter time  bands ?

I  I could do a  a retraining with that , yeah.

That 's  but  but I hope that I  I don't need to do it.


I  I could do a  a retraining with that , yeah.

That 's  but  but I hope that I  I don't need to do it.


That 's  but  but I hope that I  I don't need to do it.

So , uh it c can be do in an unsupervised way.


So , uh it c can be do in an unsupervised way.


I 'm  I 'm not sure , but , for  for  for those three meetings whi which I  which I did , it seems to be , quite well , but , there are some  some  as I said some problems with the lapel mike , but , perhaps we can do something with  with cross - correlations to , to get rid of the  of those. And. Yeah. That 's  that 's what I  that 's my  future work. Well  well what I want to do is to  to look into cross - correlations for  for removing those , false overlaps.


I 'm  I 'm not sure , but , for  for  for those three meetings whi which I  which I did , it seems to be , quite well , but , there are some  some  as I said some problems with the lapel mike , but , perhaps we can do something with  with cross - correlations to , to get rid of the  of those. And. Yeah. That 's  that 's what I  that 's my  future work. Well  well what I want to do is to  to look into cross - correlations for  for removing those , false overlaps.

Are the , um , wireless , different than the wired , mikes , at all ? I mean , have you noticed any difference ?


I 'm  I 'm not sure , but , for  for  for those three meetings whi which I  which I did , it seems to be , quite well , but , there are some  some  as I said some problems with the lapel mike , but , perhaps we can do something with  with cross - correlations to , to get rid of the  of those. And. Yeah. That 's  that 's what I  that 's my  future work. Well  well what I want to do is to  to look into cross - correlations for  for removing those , false overlaps.

Are the , um , wireless , different than the wired , mikes , at all ? I mean , have you noticed any difference ?

I 'm  I 'm not sure , um , if  if there are any wired mikes in those meetings , or , uh , I have  have to loo have a look at them but , I 'm  I 'm  I think there 's no difference between ,


Are the , um , wireless , different than the wired , mikes , at all ? I mean , have you noticed any difference ?

I 'm  I 'm not sure , um , if  if there are any wired mikes in those meetings , or , uh , I have  have to loo have a look at them but , I 'm  I 'm  I think there 's no difference between ,

So it 's just the lapel versus everything else ?


I 'm  I 'm not sure , um , if  if there are any wired mikes in those meetings , or , uh , I have  have to loo have a look at them but , I 'm  I 'm  I think there 's no difference between ,

So it 's just the lapel versus everything else ?

OK , so then , if that 's five minutes per meeting we 've got like twelve minutes , twelve meetings , roughly , that I 'm  that I 've been working with , then


So it 's just the lapel versus everything else ?

OK , so then , if that 's five minutes per meeting we 've got like twelve minutes , twelve meetings , roughly , that I 'm  that I 've been working with , then

Of  of  of the meetings that you 're working with , how many of them are different , tha


OK , so then , if that 's five minutes per meeting we 've got like twelve minutes , twelve meetings , roughly , that I 'm  that I 've been working with , then

Of  of  of the meetings that you 're working with , how many of them are different , tha


OK , so then , if that 's five minutes per meeting we 've got like twelve minutes , twelve meetings , roughly , that I 'm  that I 've been working with , then

Of  of  of the meetings that you 're working with , how many of them are different , tha

are there any of them that are different than , these two meetings ?


Of  of  of the meetings that you 're working with , how many of them are different , tha

are there any of them that are different than , these two meetings ?

Well  oh wa in terms of the speakers or the conditions or the ?


are there any of them that are different than , these two meetings ?

Well  oh wa in terms of the speakers or the conditions or the ?


Well  oh wa in terms of the speakers or the conditions or the ?

Um , we have different combinations of speakers.


Um , we have different combinations of speakers.


Um , we have different combinations of speakers.

I mean , just from what I 've seen , uh , there are some where , um , you 're present or not present , and , then  then you have the difference between the networks group and this group


Um , we have different combinations of speakers.

I mean , just from what I 've seen , uh , there are some where , um , you 're present or not present , and , then  then you have the difference between the networks group and this group

Yeah , I know , some of the NSA meetings , yeah.


I mean , just from what I 've seen , uh , there are some where , um , you 're present or not present , and , then  then you have the difference between the networks group and this group

Yeah , I know , some of the NSA meetings , yeah.

Yeah. So I didn't know in the group you had if you had


Yeah , I know , some of the NSA meetings , yeah.

Yeah. So I didn't know in the group you had if you had


Yeah. So I didn't know in the group you had if you had


Do you have any of Jerry 's meetings in your , pack , er ,


Do you have any of Jerry 's meetings in your , pack , er ,

We could , I mean you  you recorded one last week or so. I could get that new one in this week  I get that new one in.


We could , I mean you  you recorded one last week or so. I could get that new one in this week  I get that new one in.


We could , I mean you  you recorded one last week or so. I could get that new one in this week  I get that new one in.

We 're gonna be recording them every  Monday ,


We could , I mean you  you recorded one last week or so. I could get that new one in this week  I get that new one in.

We 're gonna be recording them every  Monday ,

Yeah. Cuz I think he really needs variety ,


We 're gonna be recording them every  Monday ,

Yeah. Cuz I think he really needs variety ,


Yeah. Cuz I think he really needs variety ,


and  and having as much variety for speaker certainly would be a big part of that I think.


and  and having as much variety for speaker certainly would be a big part of that I think.

OK , so if I , OK , included  include , OK , then , uh , if I were to include all together samples from twelve meetings that would only take an hour and I could get the transcribers to do that right  I mean , what I mean is , that would be an hour sampled , and then they 'd transcribe those  that hour , right ? That 's what I should do ?


OK , so if I , OK , included  include , OK , then , uh , if I were to include all together samples from twelve meetings that would only take an hour and I could get the transcribers to do that right  I mean , what I mean is , that would be an hour sampled , and then they 'd transcribe those  that hour , right ? That 's what I should do ?


I mean  I mean adjust. So they get it into the multi - channel format and then adjust the timebands so it 's precise.


I mean  I mean adjust. So they get it into the multi - channel format and then adjust the timebands so it 's precise.

So that should be faster than the ten times kind of thing ,


I mean  I mean adjust. So they get it into the multi - channel format and then adjust the timebands so it 's precise.

So that should be faster than the ten times kind of thing ,

Absolutely. I did  I did , um , uh , so , last night I did , uh ,


So that should be faster than the ten times kind of thing ,

Absolutely. I did  I did , um , uh , so , last night I did , uh ,

Oh gosh , well , last night , I did about half an hour in , three hours , which is not , terrific ,


Absolutely. I did  I did , um , uh , so , last night I did , uh ,

Oh gosh , well , last night , I did about half an hour in , three hours , which is not , terrific ,


Oh gosh , well , last night , I did about half an hour in , three hours , which is not , terrific ,

but , um , anyway , it 's an hour and a half per


but , um , anyway , it 's an hour and a half per


but , um , anyway , it 's an hour and a half per

Well , I can't calculate on my ,  on my feet.


Well , I can't calculate on my ,  on my feet.

Do the transcribers actually start wi with , uh , transcribing new meetings , or  are they ?


Well , I can't calculate on my ,  on my feet.

Do the transcribers actually start wi with , uh , transcribing new meetings , or  are they ?

Well , um they 're still working  they still have enough to finish that I haven't assigned a new meeting ,


Do the transcribers actually start wi with , uh , transcribing new meetings , or  are they ?

Well , um they 're still working  they still have enough to finish that I haven't assigned a new meeting ,

but the next , m m I was about to need to assign a new meeting and I was going to take it from one of the new ones ,


Well , um they 're still working  they still have enough to finish that I haven't assigned a new meeting ,

but the next , m m I was about to need to assign a new meeting and I was going to take it from one of the new ones ,


but the next , m m I was about to need to assign a new meeting and I was going to take it from one of the new ones ,

and I could easily give them Jerry Feldman 's meeting , no problem. And , then


and I could easily give them Jerry Feldman 's meeting , no problem. And , then

So they 're really running out of , data , prett I mean that 's good.


So they 're really running out of , data , prett I mean that 's good.


So they 're really running out of , data , prett I mean that 's good.

They 're running out of data unless we s make the decision that we should go over and start , uh , transcribing the other set.


They 're running out of data unless we s make the decision that we should go over and start , uh , transcribing the other set.


And so I was in the process of like editing them but this is wonderful news.


And so I was in the process of like editing them but this is wonderful news.

We funded the experiment with , uh  also we were thinking maybe applying that that to getting the , Yeah , that 'll be , very useful to getting the overlaps to be more precise all the way through.


We funded the experiment with , uh  also we were thinking maybe applying that that to getting the , Yeah , that 'll be , very useful to getting the overlaps to be more precise all the way through.

So this , blends nicely into the update on transcripts.


We funded the experiment with , uh  also we were thinking maybe applying that that to getting the , Yeah , that 'll be , very useful to getting the overlaps to be more precise all the way through.

So this , blends nicely into the update on transcripts.

Yes , it does. So , um ,  um , Liz , and  and Don , and I met this morning , in the BARCO room , with the lecture hall ,


So this , blends nicely into the update on transcripts.

Yes , it does. So , um ,  um , Liz , and  and Don , and I met this morning , in the BARCO room , with the lecture hall ,

Yeah , please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.


Yes , it does. So , um ,  um , Liz , and  and Don , and I met this morning , in the BARCO room , with the lecture hall ,

Yeah , please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.

and this afternoon , it drifted into the afternoon ,   uh , concerning this issue of , um , the , well there 's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that , they need to do for , the SRI recognizer. And , um , well , so , I mentioned the process that I 'm going through with the data , so , you know , I get the data back from the transcri Well , s uh , metaphorically , get the data back from the transcriber , and then I , check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And , um , I 'm going to be doing a more thorough editing , with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they 're  they 're generally very good. And , then , I run it through , uh , the channelize program to get it into the multi - channel format , OK. And  the , what we discussed this morning , I would summarize as saying that , um , these units that result , in a  a particular channel and a particular timeband , at  at that level , um , vary in length. And , um ,  their recognizer would prefer that the units not be overly long. But it 's really an empirical question , whether the units we get at this point through , just that process I described might be sufficient for them. So , as a first pass through , a first chance without having to do a lot of hand - editing , what we 're gonna do , is , I 'll run it through channelize , give them those data after I 've done the editing process and be sure it 's clean. And I can do that , pretty quickly , with just , that minimal editing , without having to hand - break things.


Yeah , please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.

and this afternoon , it drifted into the afternoon ,   uh , concerning this issue of , um , the , well there 's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that , they need to do for , the SRI recognizer. And , um , well , so , I mentioned the process that I 'm going through with the data , so , you know , I get the data back from the transcri Well , s uh , metaphorically , get the data back from the transcriber , and then I , check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And , um , I 'm going to be doing a more thorough editing , with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they 're  they 're generally very good. And , then , I run it through , uh , the channelize program to get it into the multi - channel format , OK. And  the , what we discussed this morning , I would summarize as saying that , um , these units that result , in a  a particular channel and a particular timeband , at  at that level , um , vary in length. And , um ,  their recognizer would prefer that the units not be overly long. But it 's really an empirical question , whether the units we get at this point through , just that process I described might be sufficient for them. So , as a first pass through , a first chance without having to do a lot of hand - editing , what we 're gonna do , is , I 'll run it through channelize , give them those data after I 've done the editing process and be sure it 's clean. And I can do that , pretty quickly , with just , that minimal editing , without having to hand - break things.


Yeah , please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.

and this afternoon , it drifted into the afternoon ,   uh , concerning this issue of , um , the , well there 's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that , they need to do for , the SRI recognizer. And , um , well , so , I mentioned the process that I 'm going through with the data , so , you know , I get the data back from the transcri Well , s uh , metaphorically , get the data back from the transcriber , and then I , check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And , um , I 'm going to be doing a more thorough editing , with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they 're  they 're generally very good. And , then , I run it through , uh , the channelize program to get it into the multi - channel format , OK. And  the , what we discussed this morning , I would summarize as saying that , um , these units that result , in a  a particular channel and a particular timeband , at  at that level , um , vary in length. And , um ,  their recognizer would prefer that the units not be overly long. But it 's really an empirical question , whether the units we get at this point through , just that process I described might be sufficient for them. So , as a first pass through , a first chance without having to do a lot of hand - editing , what we 're gonna do , is , I 'll run it through channelize , give them those data after I 've done the editing process and be sure it 's clean. And I can do that , pretty quickly , with just , that minimal editing , without having to hand - break things.

And then we 'll see if the units that we 're getting , uh , with the  at that level , are sufficient. And maybe they don't need to be further broken down. And if they do need to be further broken down then maybe it just be piece - wise , maybe it won't be the whole thing. So , that 's  that 's what we were discussing , this morning as far as I  Among


and this afternoon , it drifted into the afternoon ,   uh , concerning this issue of , um , the , well there 's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that , they need to do for , the SRI recognizer. And , um , well , so , I mentioned the process that I 'm going through with the data , so , you know , I get the data back from the transcri Well , s uh , metaphorically , get the data back from the transcriber , and then I , check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And , um , I 'm going to be doing a more thorough editing , with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they 're  they 're generally very good. And , then , I run it through , uh , the channelize program to get it into the multi - channel format , OK. And  the , what we discussed this morning , I would summarize as saying that , um , these units that result , in a  a particular channel and a particular timeband , at  at that level , um , vary in length. And , um ,  their recognizer would prefer that the units not be overly long. But it 's really an empirical question , whether the units we get at this point through , just that process I described might be sufficient for them. So , as a first pass through , a first chance without having to do a lot of hand - editing , what we 're gonna do , is , I 'll run it through channelize , give them those data after I 've done the editing process and be sure it 's clean. And I can do that , pretty quickly , with just , that minimal editing , without having to hand - break things.

And then we 'll see if the units that we 're getting , uh , with the  at that level , are sufficient. And maybe they don't need to be further broken down. And if they do need to be further broken down then maybe it just be piece - wise , maybe it won't be the whole thing. So , that 's  that 's what we were discussing , this morning as far as I  Among


And then we 'll see if the units that we 're getting , uh , with the  at that level , are sufficient. And maybe they don't need to be further broken down. And if they do need to be further broken down then maybe it just be piece - wise , maybe it won't be the whole thing. So , that 's  that 's what we were discussing , this morning as far as I  Among

also we discussed some adaptational things ,


also we discussed some adaptational things ,


uh  You know I hadn't , uh , incorporated , a convention explicitly to handle acronyms , for example , but if someone says , PZM it would be nice to have that be directly interpretable from , the transcript what they said ,


uh  You know I hadn't , uh , incorporated , a convention explicitly to handle acronyms , for example , but if someone says , PZM it would be nice to have that be directly interpretable from , the transcript what they said ,

or Pi - uh Tcl  TCL I mean. It 's like y it 's  and so , um , I 've  I 've incorporated also convention , with that but that 's easy to handle at the post editing phase , and I 'll mention it to , transcribers for the next phase but that 's OK. And then , a similar conv uh , convention for numbers. So if they say one - eighty - three versus one eight three. Um , and also I 'll be , um , encoding , as I do my post - editing , the , things that are in curly brackets , which are clarificational material. And eh to incorporate , uh , keyword , at the beginning. So , it 's gonna be either a gloss or it 's gonna be a vocal sound like a , laugh or a cough , or , so forth. Or a non - vocal sound like a doors door - slam , and that can be easily done with a , you know , just a  one little additional thing in the , in the general format.


uh  You know I hadn't , uh , incorporated , a convention explicitly to handle acronyms , for example , but if someone says , PZM it would be nice to have that be directly interpretable from , the transcript what they said ,

or Pi - uh Tcl  TCL I mean. It 's like y it 's  and so , um , I 've  I 've incorporated also convention , with that but that 's easy to handle at the post editing phase , and I 'll mention it to , transcribers for the next phase but that 's OK. And then , a similar conv uh , convention for numbers. So if they say one - eighty - three versus one eight three. Um , and also I 'll be , um , encoding , as I do my post - editing , the , things that are in curly brackets , which are clarificational material. And eh to incorporate , uh , keyword , at the beginning. So , it 's gonna be either a gloss or it 's gonna be a vocal sound like a , laugh or a cough , or , so forth. Or a non - vocal sound like a doors door - slam , and that can be easily done with a , you know , just a  one little additional thing in the , in the general format.

Yeah we j we just needed a way to , strip , you know , all the comments , all the things th the  that linguist wants but the recognizer can't do anything with. Um , but to keep things that we mapped to like reject models , or , you know , uh , mouth noise , or , cough. And then there 's this interesting issue Jane brought up which I hadn't thought about before but I was , realizing as I went through the transcripts , that there are some noises like , um , well the  good example was an inbreath , where a transcriber working from , the mixed , signal , doesn't know whose breath it is ,


or Pi - uh Tcl  TCL I mean. It 's like y it 's  and so , um , I 've  I 've incorporated also convention , with that but that 's easy to handle at the post editing phase , and I 'll mention it to , transcribers for the next phase but that 's OK. And then , a similar conv uh , convention for numbers. So if they say one - eighty - three versus one eight three. Um , and also I 'll be , um , encoding , as I do my post - editing , the , things that are in curly brackets , which are clarificational material. And eh to incorporate , uh , keyword , at the beginning. So , it 's gonna be either a gloss or it 's gonna be a vocal sound like a , laugh or a cough , or , so forth. Or a non - vocal sound like a doors door - slam , and that can be easily done with a , you know , just a  one little additional thing in the , in the general format.

Yeah we j we just needed a way to , strip , you know , all the comments , all the things th the  that linguist wants but the recognizer can't do anything with. Um , but to keep things that we mapped to like reject models , or , you know , uh , mouth noise , or , cough. And then there 's this interesting issue Jane brought up which I hadn't thought about before but I was , realizing as I went through the transcripts , that there are some noises like , um , well the  good example was an inbreath , where a transcriber working from , the mixed , signal , doesn't know whose breath it is ,


or Pi - uh Tcl  TCL I mean. It 's like y it 's  and so , um , I 've  I 've incorporated also convention , with that but that 's easy to handle at the post editing phase , and I 'll mention it to , transcribers for the next phase but that 's OK. And then , a similar conv uh , convention for numbers. So if they say one - eighty - three versus one eight three. Um , and also I 'll be , um , encoding , as I do my post - editing , the , things that are in curly brackets , which are clarificational material. And eh to incorporate , uh , keyword , at the beginning. So , it 's gonna be either a gloss or it 's gonna be a vocal sound like a , laugh or a cough , or , so forth. Or a non - vocal sound like a doors door - slam , and that can be easily done with a , you know , just a  one little additional thing in the , in the general format.

Yeah we j we just needed a way to , strip , you know , all the comments , all the things th the  that linguist wants but the recognizer can't do anything with. Um , but to keep things that we mapped to like reject models , or , you know , uh , mouth noise , or , cough. And then there 's this interesting issue Jane brought up which I hadn't thought about before but I was , realizing as I went through the transcripts , that there are some noises like , um , well the  good example was an inbreath , where a transcriber working from , the mixed , signal , doesn't know whose breath it is ,

and they 've been assigning it to someone that may or may not be correct. And what we do is , if it 's a breath sound , you know , a sound from the speaker , we map it , to , a noise model , like a mouth - noise model in the recognizer , and , yeah , it probably doesn't hurt that much once in a while to have these , but , if they 're in the wrong channel , that 's , not a good idea. And then there 's also , things like door - slams that 's really in no one 's channel , they 're like  it 's in the room.


Yeah we j we just needed a way to , strip , you know , all the comments , all the things th the  that linguist wants but the recognizer can't do anything with. Um , but to keep things that we mapped to like reject models , or , you know , uh , mouth noise , or , cough. And then there 's this interesting issue Jane brought up which I hadn't thought about before but I was , realizing as I went through the transcripts , that there are some noises like , um , well the  good example was an inbreath , where a transcriber working from , the mixed , signal , doesn't know whose breath it is ,

and they 've been assigning it to someone that may or may not be correct. And what we do is , if it 's a breath sound , you know , a sound from the speaker , we map it , to , a noise model , like a mouth - noise model in the recognizer , and , yeah , it probably doesn't hurt that much once in a while to have these , but , if they 're in the wrong channel , that 's , not a good idea. And then there 's also , things like door - slams that 's really in no one 's channel , they 're like  it 's in the room.


and they 've been assigning it to someone that may or may not be correct. And what we do is , if it 's a breath sound , you know , a sound from the speaker , we map it , to , a noise model , like a mouth - noise model in the recognizer , and , yeah , it probably doesn't hurt that much once in a while to have these , but , if they 're in the wrong channel , that 's , not a good idea. And then there 's also , things like door - slams that 's really in no one 's channel , they 're like  it 's in the room.


and they 've been assigning it to someone that may or may not be correct. And what we do is , if it 's a breath sound , you know , a sound from the speaker , we map it , to , a noise model , like a mouth - noise model in the recognizer , and , yeah , it probably doesn't hurt that much once in a while to have these , but , if they 're in the wrong channel , that 's , not a good idea. And then there 's also , things like door - slams that 's really in no one 's channel , they 're like  it 's in the room.

And  uh , Jane had this nice , uh , idea of having , like an extra , uh couple tiers ,


And  uh , Jane had this nice , uh , idea of having , like an extra , uh couple tiers ,


And  uh , Jane had this nice , uh , idea of having , like an extra , uh couple tiers ,

Yeah. I 've been  I 've been adding that to the ones I 've been editing.


And  uh , Jane had this nice , uh , idea of having , like an extra , uh couple tiers ,

Yeah. I 've been  I 've been adding that to the ones I 've been editing.

yeah. And we were thinking , that is useful also when there 's uncertainties. So if they hear a breath and they don't know who breath it is it 's better to put it in that channel than to put it in the speaker 's channel because maybe it was someone else 's breath , or  Uh , so I think that 's a good  you can always clean that up , post - processing.


Yeah. I 've been  I 've been adding that to the ones I 've been editing.

yeah. And we were thinking , that is useful also when there 's uncertainties. So if they hear a breath and they don't know who breath it is it 's better to put it in that channel than to put it in the speaker 's channel because maybe it was someone else 's breath , or  Uh , so I think that 's a good  you can always clean that up , post - processing.


Yeah. I 've been  I 've been adding that to the ones I 've been editing.

yeah. And we were thinking , that is useful also when there 's uncertainties. So if they hear a breath and they don't know who breath it is it 's better to put it in that channel than to put it in the speaker 's channel because maybe it was someone else 's breath , or  Uh , so I think that 's a good  you can always clean that up , post - processing.

So a lot of little details , but I think we 're , coming to some kinda closure , on that. So the idea is then , uh , Don can take , uh , Jane 's post - processed channelized version , and , with some scripts , you know , convert that to  to a reference for the recognizer and we can , can run these. So  when that 's , ready  you know , as soon as that 's ready , and as soon as the recognizer is here we can get , twelve hours of force - aligned and recognized data. And , you know , start , working on it ,


yeah. And we were thinking , that is useful also when there 's uncertainties. So if they hear a breath and they don't know who breath it is it 's better to put it in that channel than to put it in the speaker 's channel because maybe it was someone else 's breath , or  Uh , so I think that 's a good  you can always clean that up , post - processing.

So a lot of little details , but I think we 're , coming to some kinda closure , on that. So the idea is then , uh , Don can take , uh , Jane 's post - processed channelized version , and , with some scripts , you know , convert that to  to a reference for the recognizer and we can , can run these. So  when that 's , ready  you know , as soon as that 's ready , and as soon as the recognizer is here we can get , twelve hours of force - aligned and recognized data. And , you know , start , working on it ,


So a lot of little details , but I think we 're , coming to some kinda closure , on that. So the idea is then , uh , Don can take , uh , Jane 's post - processed channelized version , and , with some scripts , you know , convert that to  to a reference for the recognizer and we can , can run these. So  when that 's , ready  you know , as soon as that 's ready , and as soon as the recognizer is here we can get , twelve hours of force - aligned and recognized data. And , you know , start , working on it ,

so we 're , I dunno a coup a week or two away I would say from , uh , if  if that process is automatic once we get your post - process , transcript.


So a lot of little details , but I think we 're , coming to some kinda closure , on that. So the idea is then , uh , Don can take , uh , Jane 's post - processed channelized version , and , with some scripts , you know , convert that to  to a reference for the recognizer and we can , can run these. So  when that 's , ready  you know , as soon as that 's ready , and as soon as the recognizer is here we can get , twelve hours of force - aligned and recognized data. And , you know , start , working on it ,

so we 're , I dunno a coup a week or two away I would say from , uh , if  if that process is automatic once we get your post - process , transcript.

Mm - hmm. And that doesn't  the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I 'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way ,  will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of , uh , time , dividing things.


so we 're , I dunno a coup a week or two away I would say from , uh , if  if that process is automatic once we get your post - process , transcript.

Mm - hmm. And that doesn't  the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I 'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way ,  will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of , uh , time , dividing things.

Yeah , some of them are quite long. Just from  I dunno how long were  you did one ?


so we 're , I dunno a coup a week or two away I would say from , uh , if  if that process is automatic once we get your post - process , transcript.

Mm - hmm. And that doesn't  the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I 'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way ,  will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of , uh , time , dividing things.

Yeah , some of them are quite long. Just from  I dunno how long were  you did one ?

I saw a couple ,  around twenty seconds , and that was just without looking too hard for it , so , I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.


Mm - hmm. And that doesn't  the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I 'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way ,  will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of , uh , time , dividing things.

Yeah , some of them are quite long. Just from  I dunno how long were  you did one ?

I saw a couple ,  around twenty seconds , and that was just without looking too hard for it , so , I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.


Yeah , some of them are quite long. Just from  I dunno how long were  you did one ?

I saw a couple ,  around twenty seconds , and that was just without looking too hard for it , so , I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.

Well n One question , e w would that be a single speaker or is that multiple speakers overlapping ?


I saw a couple ,  around twenty seconds , and that was just without looking too hard for it , so , I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.

Well n One question , e w would that be a single speaker or is that multiple speakers overlapping ?

No. No , but if we 're gonna segment it , like if there 's one speaker in there , that says " OK " or something , right in the middle , it 's gonna have a lot of dead time around it ,


Well n One question , e w would that be a single speaker or is that multiple speakers overlapping ?

No. No , but if we 're gonna segment it , like if there 's one speaker in there , that says " OK " or something , right in the middle , it 's gonna have a lot of dead time around it ,

Right. It 's not the  it 's not the fact that we can't process a twenty second segment , it 's the fact that , there 's twenty seconds in which to place one word in the wrong place


No. No , but if we 're gonna segment it , like if there 's one speaker in there , that says " OK " or something , right in the middle , it 's gonna have a lot of dead time around it ,

Right. It 's not the  it 's not the fact that we can't process a twenty second segment , it 's the fact that , there 's twenty seconds in which to place one word in the wrong place


Right. It 's not the  it 's not the fact that we can't process a twenty second segment , it 's the fact that , there 's twenty seconds in which to place one word in the wrong place


You know , if  if someone has a very short utterance there , and that 's where , we , might wanna have this individual , you know , ha have your pre pre - process input.


You know , if  if someone has a very short utterance there , and that 's where , we , might wanna have this individual , you know , ha have your pre pre - process input.

I  I  I thought that perhaps the transcribers could start then from the  those mult multi - channel , uh , speech - nonspeech detections , if they would like to.


I  I  I thought that perhaps the transcribers could start then from the  those mult multi - channel , uh , speech - nonspeech detections , if they would like to.

And I just don't know , I have to run it.


And I just don't know , I have to run it.


So that 's probably what will happen , but we 'll try it this way and see.


So that 's probably what will happen , but we 'll try it this way and see.

I mean it 's probably good enough for force - alignment. If it 's not then we 're really  then we def definitely


I mean it 's probably good enough for force - alignment. If it 's not then we 're really  then we def definitely

uh , but for free recognition I 'm  it 'll probably not be good enough. We 'll probably get lots of errors because of the cross - talk , and , noises and things.


uh , but for free recognition I 'm  it 'll probably not be good enough. We 'll probably get lots of errors because of the cross - talk , and , noises and things.

Good s I think that 's probably our agenda , or starting up there.


uh , but for free recognition I 'm  it 'll probably not be good enough. We 'll probably get lots of errors because of the cross - talk , and , noises and things.

Good s I think that 's probably our agenda , or starting up there.

Oh I wanted to ask one thing , the microphones  the new microphones ,


Good s I think that 's probably our agenda , or starting up there.

Oh I wanted to ask one thing , the microphones  the new microphones ,


Oh I wanted to ask one thing , the microphones  the new microphones ,

Uh , they said it would take about a week.


Uh , they said it would take about a week.


So what happens to our old microphones ?


Well the only thing we 're gonna have extra , for now ,


Well the only thing we 're gonna have extra , for now ,

We don't have more receivers , we just have


Well the only thing we 're gonna have extra , for now ,

We don't have more receivers , we just have

Right , we don so the only thing we 'll have extra now is just the lapel.


We don't have more receivers , we just have

Right , we don so the only thing we 'll have extra now is just the lapel.

Not  not the , bodypack , just the lapel.


Right , we don so the only thing we 'll have extra now is just the lapel.

Not  not the , bodypack , just the lapel.


Not  not the , bodypack , just the lapel.

Um , and then one of the  one of those. Since , what I decided to do , on Morgan 's suggestion , was just get two , new microphones , um , and try them out. And then , if we like them we 'll get more.


Um , and then one of the  one of those. Since , what I decided to do , on Morgan 's suggestion , was just get two , new microphones , um , and try them out. And then , if we like them we 'll get more.


Since they 're  they 're like two hundred bucks a piece , we won't , uh , at least try them out.


Since they 're  they 're like two hundred bucks a piece , we won't , uh , at least try them out.

So it 's a replacement for this headset mike ?


So it 's a replacement for this headset mike ?

And they 're gonna do the wiring for us.


And they 're gonna do the wiring for us.

What 's the , um , style of the headset ?


And they 're gonna do the wiring for us.

What 's the , um , style of the headset ?

It 's , um , it 's by Crown , and it 's one of these sort of mount around the ear thingies , and , uh , when I s when I mentioned that we thought it was uncomfortable he said it was a common problem with the Sony. And this is how apparently a lot of people are getting around it.


What 's the , um , style of the headset ?

It 's , um , it 's by Crown , and it 's one of these sort of mount around the ear thingies , and , uh , when I s when I mentioned that we thought it was uncomfortable he said it was a common problem with the Sony. And this is how apparently a lot of people are getting around it.

And I checked on the web , and every site I went to , raved about this particular mike. It 's apparently comfortable and stays on the head well , so we 'll see if it 's any good. But , uh , I think it 's promising.


It 's , um , it 's by Crown , and it 's one of these sort of mount around the ear thingies , and , uh , when I s when I mentioned that we thought it was uncomfortable he said it was a common problem with the Sony. And this is how apparently a lot of people are getting around it.

And I checked on the web , and every site I went to , raved about this particular mike. It 's apparently comfortable and stays on the head well , so we 'll see if it 's any good. But , uh , I think it 's promising.

You said it was used by aerobics instructors ?


And I checked on the web , and every site I went to , raved about this particular mike. It 's apparently comfortable and stays on the head well , so we 'll see if it 's any good. But , uh , I think it 's promising.

You said it was used by aerobics instructors ?

Yep. Yep , so it was  it was advertised for performers


You said it was used by aerobics instructors ?

Yep. Yep , so it was  it was advertised for performers


Yep. Yep , so it was  it was advertised for performers

For the recor for the record Adam is not a paid employee or a consultant of Crown.


For the recor for the record Adam is not a paid employee or a consultant of Crown.


For the recor for the record Adam is not a paid employee or a consultant of Crown.

I said " For the record Adam is  is not a paid consultant or employee of Crown ".


I said " For the record Adam is  is not a paid consultant or employee of Crown ".


However , he may be solicited after these meetings are distributed.


However , he may be solicited after these meetings are distributed.

Don't worry about finishing your dissertation.


Don't worry about finishing your dissertation.


So if we go to a workshop about all this  this it 's gonna be a meeting about meetings about meetings. OK. So.


So if we go to a workshop about all this  this it 's gonna be a meeting about meetings about meetings. OK. So.

And then it  we have to go to the planning session for that workshop.


So if we go to a workshop about all this  this it 's gonna be a meeting about meetings about meetings. OK. So.

And then it  we have to go to the planning session for that workshop.

Oh , yeah , what  Which 'll be the meeting about the meeting about the meeting.


And then it  we have to go to the planning session for that workshop.

Oh , yeah , what  Which 'll be the meeting about the meeting about the meeting.

Cuz then it would be a meeting about the meeting about the meeting about meetings.


Oh , yeah , what  Which 'll be the meeting about the meeting about the meeting.

Cuz then it would be a meeting about the meeting about the meeting about meetings.

Yeah ? Just start saying " M four ". Yeah , OK.


Cuz then it would be a meeting about the meeting about the meeting about meetings.

Yeah ? Just start saying " M four ". Yeah , OK.


Yeah ? Just start saying " M four ". Yeah , OK.


Help.  It's up there ? That screen's black.


Are we done ? Right , okay um , this is our second meeting and I might be a bit all over the place.


Are we done ? Right , okay um , this is our second meeting and I might be a bit all over the place.

Um , right our agenda for today , do you want us to give you a second ?


Um , right our agenda for today , do you want us to give you a second ?


I'll go over what we decided last meeting ,


I'll go over what we decided last meeting ,

um , we decided upon a universal control , one handset for all , T_V_ , video equipment.


um , we decided upon a universal control , one handset for all , T_V_ , video equipment.

Um , that it was important that the product was accessible to a wide range of consumers , wide age range , not limiting anyone. We decided it was important to reflect the company's image in our product , we put fashion in electronics , you know that kind of s thing. Um , our budget would have to affect um  try not to reflect our budget , um that we might have a bit of  oh oh you can see it , okay . Um dissonance between what our budget was and what we want it to look like.


um , we decided upon a universal control , one handset for all , T_V_ , video equipment.

Um , that it was important that the product was accessible to a wide range of consumers , wide age range , not limiting anyone. We decided it was important to reflect the company's image in our product , we put fashion in electronics , you know that kind of s thing. Um , our budget would have to affect um  try not to reflect our budget , um that we might have a bit of  oh oh you can see it , okay . Um dissonance between what our budget was and what we want it to look like.

Um want it to look uncluttered , undaunting to the customer. We discussed a flip-open design , um reducing the size of the control and an electronic panel um for further features like programming , things like that. Okay. Um , three presentations , I've got written here so shall we hear from Marketing first ?


Um , that it was important that the product was accessible to a wide range of consumers , wide age range , not limiting anyone. We decided it was important to reflect the company's image in our product , we put fashion in electronics , you know that kind of s thing. Um , our budget would have to affect um  try not to reflect our budget , um that we might have a bit of  oh oh you can see it , okay . Um dissonance between what our budget was and what we want it to look like.

Um want it to look uncluttered , undaunting to the customer. We discussed a flip-open design , um reducing the size of the control and an electronic panel um for further features like programming , things like that. Okay. Um , three presentations , I've got written here so shall we hear from Marketing first ?

Um is it okay if I postpone that til later , I just want to get access to a little bit more information ,


Um want it to look uncluttered , undaunting to the customer. We discussed a flip-open design , um reducing the size of the control and an electronic panel um for further features like programming , things like that. Okay. Um , three presentations , I've got written here so shall we hear from Marketing first ?

Um is it okay if I postpone that til later , I just want to get access to a little bit more information ,


Um is it okay if I postpone that til later , I just want to get access to a little bit more information ,

Okay , yeah I'll go first. Can I grab the


Okay , yeah I'll go first. Can I grab the


Okay , yeah I'll go first. Can I grab the

Thanks. What do I have to press ? Oh , F_ eight ?


Thanks. What do I have to press ? Oh , F_ eight ?


Yep there we go. Okay this is uh the working design , presented by me , the uh Industrial Designer extraordinaire.


Yep there we go. Okay this is uh the working design , presented by me , the uh Industrial Designer extraordinaire.

'Kay , this is where I went a bit mad with PowerPoint so. What  the first thing  question I asked was what are we trying to design ? Well , a device which basically just sends the signal to the T_V_ to change its state , whether that be the power , or the channel um or the volume , everything is just um some sort of signal to change the state of the T_V_ or other appliance that it's sending the signal to. Um , so I decided I'd have a look at what th other people have designed and try and take some inspiration from that. But uh although we will want to be taking ideas from other people , we wanna make sure that our design stands out and I thought that was something that  well it wasn't really my area because  I'm dealing with the inside really. So um , yeah I ran out of time so I couldn't do this one as fun as the last one .


Yep there we go. Okay this is uh the working design , presented by me , the uh Industrial Designer extraordinaire.

'Kay , this is where I went a bit mad with PowerPoint so. What  the first thing  question I asked was what are we trying to design ? Well , a device which basically just sends the signal to the T_V_ to change its state , whether that be the power , or the channel um or the volume , everything is just um some sort of signal to change the state of the T_V_ or other appliance that it's sending the signal to. Um , so I decided I'd have a look at what th other people have designed and try and take some inspiration from that. But uh although we will want to be taking ideas from other people , we wanna make sure that our design stands out and I thought that was something that  well it wasn't really my area because  I'm dealing with the inside really. So um , yeah I ran out of time so I couldn't do this one as fun as the last one .

Um and uh  I found out that most uh controls use some form of infrared to send signals to the T_V_ presumably because of the cost issue of uh something like uh the same thing that computers use , wireless and , you don't need to send very much information. Um , most of them are powered by some form of battery. Now our one , I'm I'm not sure whether we want to look at the size issue because most of them are powered by triple A_ batteries but those can be quite bulky so I d I didn't know if you wanted to look at something else um so we could shrink down the size of the control.


Yep there we go. Okay this is uh the working design , presented by me , the uh Industrial Designer extraordinaire.

'Kay , this is where I went a bit mad with PowerPoint so. What  the first thing  question I asked was what are we trying to design ? Well , a device which basically just sends the signal to the T_V_ to change its state , whether that be the power , or the channel um or the volume , everything is just um some sort of signal to change the state of the T_V_ or other appliance that it's sending the signal to. Um , so I decided I'd have a look at what th other people have designed and try and take some inspiration from that. But uh although we will want to be taking ideas from other people , we wanna make sure that our design stands out and I thought that was something that  well it wasn't really my area because  I'm dealing with the inside really. So um , yeah I ran out of time so I couldn't do this one as fun as the last one .

Um and uh  I found out that most uh controls use some form of infrared to send signals to the T_V_ presumably because of the cost issue of uh something like uh the same thing that computers use , wireless and , you don't need to send very much information. Um , most of them are powered by some form of battery. Now our one , I'm I'm not sure whether we want to look at the size issue because most of them are powered by triple A_ batteries but those can be quite bulky so I d I didn't know if you wanted to look at something else um so we could shrink down the size of the control.

Mm-hmm. Could I  can I interject to ask a question there ,


'Kay , this is where I went a bit mad with PowerPoint so. What  the first thing  question I asked was what are we trying to design ? Well , a device which basically just sends the signal to the T_V_ to change its state , whether that be the power , or the channel um or the volume , everything is just um some sort of signal to change the state of the T_V_ or other appliance that it's sending the signal to. Um , so I decided I'd have a look at what th other people have designed and try and take some inspiration from that. But uh although we will want to be taking ideas from other people , we wanna make sure that our design stands out and I thought that was something that  well it wasn't really my area because  I'm dealing with the inside really. So um , yeah I ran out of time so I couldn't do this one as fun as the last one .

Um and uh  I found out that most uh controls use some form of infrared to send signals to the T_V_ presumably because of the cost issue of uh something like uh the same thing that computers use , wireless and , you don't need to send very much information. Um , most of them are powered by some form of battery. Now our one , I'm I'm not sure whether we want to look at the size issue because most of them are powered by triple A_ batteries but those can be quite bulky so I d I didn't know if you wanted to look at something else um so we could shrink down the size of the control.

Mm-hmm. Could I  can I interject to ask a question there ,


Um and uh  I found out that most uh controls use some form of infrared to send signals to the T_V_ presumably because of the cost issue of uh something like uh the same thing that computers use , wireless and , you don't need to send very much information. Um , most of them are powered by some form of battery. Now our one , I'm I'm not sure whether we want to look at the size issue because most of them are powered by triple A_ batteries but those can be quite bulky so I d I didn't know if you wanted to look at something else um so we could shrink down the size of the control.

Mm-hmm. Could I  can I interject to ask a question there ,


Mm-hmm. Could I  can I interject to ask a question there ,

is that appropriate ? You're saying the triple A_ batteries are small or the  surrounding it ?


is that appropriate ? You're saying the triple A_ batteries are small or the  surrounding it ?

Um no no , if you if you look at if you look at most remote controls they're quite they're quite chunky and that's because of the size of the batteries ,


is that appropriate ? You're saying the triple A_ batteries are small or the  surrounding it ?

Um no no , if you if you look at if you look at most remote controls they're quite they're quite chunky and that's because of the size of the batteries ,

they have to be obviously this certain size to fit those batteries in.


Um no no , if you if you look at if you look at most remote controls they're quite they're quite chunky and that's because of the size of the batteries ,

they have to be obviously this certain size to fit those batteries in.

Right , the triple A_s are the smallest you can get are they not , right ?


they have to be obviously this certain size to fit those batteries in.

Right , the triple A_s are the smallest you can get are they not , right ?


Right , the triple A_s are the smallest you can get are they not , right ?


well you can you can get the sort of circular round ones but I'm just wondering about power consumption


well you can you can get the sort of circular round ones but I'm just wondering about power consumption

and how much you need to send the data across.


and how much you need to send the data across.

Um , and d which leads sort of onto the next point about 'em being small and easy to carry round. Um , now the ones at the moment are small but I was just wondering if we could look at something a bit smaller.  Now the main components I came up with um were obviously the power source for the batteries 'cause otherwise it's not gonna work , uh as I said about the  w which batteries we were gonna choose , we can uh discuss that later and then you obviously need something to decode the information that you're putting in from from the controller Now these have a wireless range of up to about five metres which is sort of suitable for anyone who's watching the T_V_ unless they're in a cinema , which not most people do so as we're applying to the most audience that should be fine. And then I was uh  just had a quick look at the external design but I d I left that mostly to the uh interface designer. And so this is what I had as the basic idea of what we wanna do.


and how much you need to send the data across.

Um , and d which leads sort of onto the next point about 'em being small and easy to carry round. Um , now the ones at the moment are small but I was just wondering if we could look at something a bit smaller.  Now the main components I came up with um were obviously the power source for the batteries 'cause otherwise it's not gonna work , uh as I said about the  w which batteries we were gonna choose , we can uh discuss that later and then you obviously need something to decode the information that you're putting in from from the controller Now these have a wireless range of up to about five metres which is sort of suitable for anyone who's watching the T_V_ unless they're in a cinema , which not most people do so as we're applying to the most audience that should be fine. And then I was uh  just had a quick look at the external design but I d I left that mostly to the uh interface designer. And so this is what I had as the basic idea of what we wanna do.

It's not a proper circuit , I'm not sure if it'd work or not , I'm not even confident that those are the real um the real way you'd wire it up but anyway , we've just got the the power going to the infrared bulb with the chip and the  uh U_I_ interface um which would basically , when you when you pressed anything it would  the chip would convert it into some form of I_R_ data which could be decoded by the T_V_ receiver , which obviously means that we're gonna have to conform to  whatever um whatever form of communication that the T_V_s are already using and since that that's another use and  reason to use that infrared because that's what all T_V_s use at the moment. And then finally , um we want uh the  it to be available to a wide audience at a low cost so all the components that I've put forward are uh low in cost so that that should be good. Um it should should be different enough um from the alternative products to get a good consumer base , we were talking about it before and also just something that I was thinking about , uh because they're small they're also easy to lose so if we could look into some way of  d dunno some anti-going down the side of the sofa  thing that you could have ,


Um , and d which leads sort of onto the next point about 'em being small and easy to carry round. Um , now the ones at the moment are small but I was just wondering if we could look at something a bit smaller.  Now the main components I came up with um were obviously the power source for the batteries 'cause otherwise it's not gonna work , uh as I said about the  w which batteries we were gonna choose , we can uh discuss that later and then you obviously need something to decode the information that you're putting in from from the controller Now these have a wireless range of up to about five metres which is sort of suitable for anyone who's watching the T_V_ unless they're in a cinema , which not most people do so as we're applying to the most audience that should be fine. And then I was uh  just had a quick look at the external design but I d I left that mostly to the uh interface designer. And so this is what I had as the basic idea of what we wanna do.

It's not a proper circuit , I'm not sure if it'd work or not , I'm not even confident that those are the real um the real way you'd wire it up but anyway , we've just got the the power going to the infrared bulb with the chip and the  uh U_I_ interface um which would basically , when you when you pressed anything it would  the chip would convert it into some form of I_R_ data which could be decoded by the T_V_ receiver , which obviously means that we're gonna have to conform to  whatever um whatever form of communication that the T_V_s are already using and since that that's another use and  reason to use that infrared because that's what all T_V_s use at the moment. And then finally , um we want uh the  it to be available to a wide audience at a low cost so all the components that I've put forward are uh low in cost so that that should be good. Um it should should be different enough um from the alternative products to get a good consumer base , we were talking about it before and also just something that I was thinking about , uh because they're small they're also easy to lose so if we could look into some way of  d dunno some anti-going down the side of the sofa  thing that you could have ,


Um , and d which leads sort of onto the next point about 'em being small and easy to carry round. Um , now the ones at the moment are small but I was just wondering if we could look at something a bit smaller.  Now the main components I came up with um were obviously the power source for the batteries 'cause otherwise it's not gonna work , uh as I said about the  w which batteries we were gonna choose , we can uh discuss that later and then you obviously need something to decode the information that you're putting in from from the controller Now these have a wireless range of up to about five metres which is sort of suitable for anyone who's watching the T_V_ unless they're in a cinema , which not most people do so as we're applying to the most audience that should be fine. And then I was uh  just had a quick look at the external design but I d I left that mostly to the uh interface designer. And so this is what I had as the basic idea of what we wanna do.

It's not a proper circuit , I'm not sure if it'd work or not , I'm not even confident that those are the real um the real way you'd wire it up but anyway , we've just got the the power going to the infrared bulb with the chip and the  uh U_I_ interface um which would basically , when you when you pressed anything it would  the chip would convert it into some form of I_R_ data which could be decoded by the T_V_ receiver , which obviously means that we're gonna have to conform to  whatever um whatever form of communication that the T_V_s are already using and since that that's another use and  reason to use that infrared because that's what all T_V_s use at the moment. And then finally , um we want uh the  it to be available to a wide audience at a low cost so all the components that I've put forward are uh low in cost so that that should be good. Um it should should be different enough um from the alternative products to get a good consumer base , we were talking about it before and also just something that I was thinking about , uh because they're small they're also easy to lose so if we could look into some way of  d dunno some anti-going down the side of the sofa  thing that you could have ,

I  th that was just sort of a general point there.


It's not a proper circuit , I'm not sure if it'd work or not , I'm not even confident that those are the real um the real way you'd wire it up but anyway , we've just got the the power going to the infrared bulb with the chip and the  uh U_I_ interface um which would basically , when you when you pressed anything it would  the chip would convert it into some form of I_R_ data which could be decoded by the T_V_ receiver , which obviously means that we're gonna have to conform to  whatever um whatever form of communication that the T_V_s are already using and since that that's another use and  reason to use that infrared because that's what all T_V_s use at the moment. And then finally , um we want uh the  it to be available to a wide audience at a low cost so all the components that I've put forward are uh low in cost so that that should be good. Um it should should be different enough um from the alternative products to get a good consumer base , we were talking about it before and also just something that I was thinking about , uh because they're small they're also easy to lose so if we could look into some way of  d dunno some anti-going down the side of the sofa  thing that you could have ,

I  th that was just sort of a general point there.


I  th that was just sort of a general point there.


I  th that was just sort of a general point there.

That's a very important part , it came up in our market research findings too so I can refer to that , whenever you like me to present.


That's a very important part , it came up in our market research findings too so I can refer to that , whenever you like me to present.

Alright okay , and yeah , that's that's what I came up with there ,


Alright okay , and yeah , that's that's what I came up with there ,

Um , would you like to continue on from that ?


Um , would you like to continue on from that ?


Oops. Why's it not working ? F_ eight , right ?


No. The plug hasn't come out at the bottom , has it ? No.


Yeah. Actually mm some of my points might overlap with what William's just mention ,


Yeah. Actually mm some of my points might overlap with what William's just mention ,

but basically my method was like uh whatever brainstorming we did in the last meeting , just a couple of valuable points and started developing on that and there might be some missing loops in this thing which I think we'll uh take a feedback from the marketing because um , I haven't had some marketing data and basically every product is marketable. So purpose , as William already said , I would put it to simplify the interaction with T_V_ to make make it as simple as possible. And to summarise I I would say it's  it should be user-friendly by being easy to use , rather than having a lot of complex button because you can have an engineering  maybe having hundred buttons and maybe having uh a remote control which has the main features like volume control or channel ch changing the channel or whatever. But we are to to make it unique so that people want to buy it , will  this two features together. So what the concept is to have a flip-top model. The main functions such as which are like often used will be on the top and the complex functions which say you  you can say like the y young generation or trendy generation want to pr say programme their favourite channels or whatever , can be put in the middle part of the f flip-top. So it's like  it could be accessed by a wide ra range of uh audience and we can punch in new f features such as uh  added features such as shock proof body and maybe a design to appeal to a lot of people. Findings most people prefer us user-friendly rather than complex remote controls because there are times like uh people have used a remote control for say a year or something and they they are not used maybe thirty to forty percent of the buttons so it's not  of no use of punching in the uh  trying to put in those things in  on the top of the remote control and try to confuse the user. As we saw we we have to make a profit also so we we can maybe go for an economies of a higher production mm by fifty million we said ? Yeah ,


but basically my method was like uh whatever brainstorming we did in the last meeting , just a couple of valuable points and started developing on that and there might be some missing loops in this thing which I think we'll uh take a feedback from the marketing because um , I haven't had some marketing data and basically every product is marketable. So purpose , as William already said , I would put it to simplify the interaction with T_V_ to make make it as simple as possible. And to summarise I I would say it's  it should be user-friendly by being easy to use , rather than having a lot of complex button because you can have an engineering  maybe having hundred buttons and maybe having uh a remote control which has the main features like volume control or channel ch changing the channel or whatever. But we are to to make it unique so that people want to buy it , will  this two features together. So what the concept is to have a flip-top model. The main functions such as which are like often used will be on the top and the complex functions which say you  you can say like the y young generation or trendy generation want to pr say programme their favourite channels or whatever , can be put in the middle part of the f flip-top. So it's like  it could be accessed by a wide ra range of uh audience and we can punch in new f features such as uh  added features such as shock proof body and maybe a design to appeal to a lot of people. Findings most people prefer us user-friendly rather than complex remote controls because there are times like uh people have used a remote control for say a year or something and they they are not used maybe thirty to forty percent of the buttons so it's not  of no use of punching in the uh  trying to put in those things in  on the top of the remote control and try to confuse the user. As we saw we we have to make a profit also so we we can maybe go for an economies of a higher production mm by fifty million we said ? Yeah ,

with that I think we'll be able to achieve economies of scale also , so we can give in  add in more features and make it less costly. Um , that's  so this is  if you ask me personally , I would make uh flip-top with a trendy uh uh design and s maybe we we should look at also like the buttons whe whether they are like soft or little hard because they are times when the buttons tend to be a bit hard after uh continuous use  usage and all that.


with that I think we'll be able to achieve economies of scale also , so we can give in  add in more features and make it less costly. Um , that's  so this is  if you ask me personally , I would make uh flip-top with a trendy uh uh design and s maybe we we should look at also like the buttons whe whether they are like soft or little hard because they are times when the buttons tend to be a bit hard after uh continuous use  usage and all that.

So in overall a simple and uh user-friendly design.


So in overall a simple and uh user-friendly design.


So in overall a simple and uh user-friendly design.

'Kay. Um , I think we'll chat about it at the end ,


'Kay. Um , I think we'll chat about it at the end ,


'Kay. Um , I think we'll chat about it at the end ,

okay so if anyone wants to write something down that they want to bring up at the end , um


okay so if anyone wants to write something down that they want to bring up at the end , um


okay so if anyone wants to write something down that they want to bring up at the end , um

Ooh , it's vibrating , that's strange. Oh , God. Right , okay.


Ooh , it's vibrating , that's strange. Oh , God. Right , okay.


I'll have t I'll have to move it won't I ?


There we go , I've got a bit more of the cable .


Okay , um , I'm going to look at the functional requirements from the marketing point of view and uh obviously our starting point with marketing is always market research.  Um , so that's where we started , we used our our usability lab , the company's usability lab , we did our usual selection methods to get a cross-section of the general public , male and female , all age groups from fifteen upwards and um we observed them in the lab , just their general use of the remote control , you can see we had a hundred subjects there.  Our findings , lots of findings , I've just summarised some of them here. The overall thing which I've I've got at the top there in italics is that users dislike the look and feel of current remote controls , so it has obvious design implications there. Um , we found that seventy five percent of users find most remote controls ugly. Eighty percent would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy , we were quite surprised by that finding , but um that's quite a high proportion of our our , you know , international target group are prepared to spend more money for something that's a bit nicer looking. Um , current remote controls do not match well with the operating behaviour of the user overall. For example , you can see below there , seventy five percent of users zap a lot ,


Okay , um , I'm going to look at the functional requirements from the marketing point of view and uh obviously our starting point with marketing is always market research.  Um , so that's where we started , we used our our usability lab , the company's usability lab , we did our usual selection methods to get a cross-section of the general public , male and female , all age groups from fifteen upwards and um we observed them in the lab , just their general use of the remote control , you can see we had a hundred subjects there.  Our findings , lots of findings , I've just summarised some of them here. The overall thing which I've I've got at the top there in italics is that users dislike the look and feel of current remote controls , so it has obvious design implications there. Um , we found that seventy five percent of users find most remote controls ugly. Eighty percent would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy , we were quite surprised by that finding , but um that's quite a high proportion of our our , you know , international target group are prepared to spend more money for something that's a bit nicer looking. Um , current remote controls do not match well with the operating behaviour of the user overall. For example , you can see below there , seventy five percent of users zap a lot ,

so you've got your person sunk back in the sofa channel-hopping. So again there's power implications there.  Um , fifty percent of users only use ten percent of the buttons , so again a big design issue there. Um and possibly we can also cut back on cost if we don't have so many functions actually on the remote control. Um the biggest frustrations that people found with regard to personal preferences were um something that you you mentioned earlier , uh remote controls are often lost in the room , it's a slipping down the back of the sofa type of thing , uh fifty percent were were particularly frustrated by that. Uh thirty four percent of people take  said they take too much time to learn to use and I think that ties in with the um the previous finding of people only using ten percent of the buttons , they just can't be bothered to learn about the other functions. Um , um slightly more than a quarter of people said it was bad for uh repetitive strain injury. You know those small movements of the remote control can lead to kind of shoulder and elbow problems. Um the vast majority of the thirty five and under age group would like um a liquid crystal display and speech recognition , again that was to aid I think in uh  when they've lost the actual remote control , some kind of speech recognition. Something we didn't put to them , but which I'm thinking of now is um even if perhaps the lost control can give off a bleep every now and again til you find it or a flashing light , possibly. Um , that trend reverses in the older age groups. So thirty fives and unders who would like those two features , that kind of evens out thirty five to forty five and in the older age group it kind of reverses , they're not so bothered with this.  I had marvellous tables and things that I could show you ,


so you've got your person sunk back in the sofa channel-hopping. So again there's power implications there.  Um , fifty percent of users only use ten percent of the buttons , so again a big design issue there. Um and possibly we can also cut back on cost if we don't have so many functions actually on the remote control. Um the biggest frustrations that people found with regard to personal preferences were um something that you you mentioned earlier , uh remote controls are often lost in the room , it's a slipping down the back of the sofa type of thing , uh fifty percent were were particularly frustrated by that. Uh thirty four percent of people take  said they take too much time to learn to use and I think that ties in with the um the previous finding of people only using ten percent of the buttons , they just can't be bothered to learn about the other functions. Um , um slightly more than a quarter of people said it was bad for uh repetitive strain injury. You know those small movements of the remote control can lead to kind of shoulder and elbow problems. Um the vast majority of the thirty five and under age group would like um a liquid crystal display and speech recognition , again that was to aid I think in uh  when they've lost the actual remote control , some kind of speech recognition. Something we didn't put to them , but which I'm thinking of now is um even if perhaps the lost control can give off a bleep every now and again til you find it or a flashing light , possibly. Um , that trend reverses in the older age groups. So thirty fives and unders who would like those two features , that kind of evens out thirty five to forty five and in the older age group it kind of reverses , they're not so bothered with this.  I had marvellous tables and things that I could show you ,


so you've got your person sunk back in the sofa channel-hopping. So again there's power implications there.  Um , fifty percent of users only use ten percent of the buttons , so again a big design issue there. Um and possibly we can also cut back on cost if we don't have so many functions actually on the remote control. Um the biggest frustrations that people found with regard to personal preferences were um something that you you mentioned earlier , uh remote controls are often lost in the room , it's a slipping down the back of the sofa type of thing , uh fifty percent were were particularly frustrated by that. Uh thirty four percent of people take  said they take too much time to learn to use and I think that ties in with the um the previous finding of people only using ten percent of the buttons , they just can't be bothered to learn about the other functions. Um , um slightly more than a quarter of people said it was bad for uh repetitive strain injury. You know those small movements of the remote control can lead to kind of shoulder and elbow problems. Um the vast majority of the thirty five and under age group would like um a liquid crystal display and speech recognition , again that was to aid I think in uh  when they've lost the actual remote control , some kind of speech recognition. Something we didn't put to them , but which I'm thinking of now is um even if perhaps the lost control can give off a bleep every now and again til you find it or a flashing light , possibly. Um , that trend reverses in the older age groups. So thirty fives and unders who would like those two features , that kind of evens out thirty five to forty five and in the older age group it kind of reverses , they're not so bothered with this.  I had marvellous tables and things that I could show you ,

if there's any more information I can email you extra details ,


if there's any more information I can email you extra details ,


we have new project requirements , um we're not going to be using teletext ,


we have new project requirements , um we're not going to be using teletext ,

um apparently the consumers consider it outdated with the internet now. Um  our control is only going to be for T_V_ , it's not going to be a combined control , which limits you know all of the different things that   it limits the cost for us ,


um apparently the consumers consider it outdated with the internet now. Um  our control is only going to be for T_V_ , it's not going to be a combined control , which limits you know all of the different things that   it limits the cost for us ,

but it also makes it easier to understand for the consumer.


um apparently the consumers consider it outdated with the internet now. Um  our control is only going to be for T_V_ , it's not going to be a combined control , which limits you know all of the different things that   it limits the cost for us ,

but it also makes it easier to understand for the consumer.

Mm-hmm , so can we not programme a video with this remote control ?


but it also makes it easier to understand for the consumer.

Mm-hmm , so can we not programme a video with this remote control ?

It says for T_V_ only , so  looks like it's just


Mm-hmm , so can we not programme a video with this remote control ?

It says for T_V_ only , so  looks like it's just

yeah , I think maybe Sky things like that might be incorporated into it , but  I don't know , what do you think ? It just said , for T_V_ only. But I mean , general T_V_ controls do do video as well.


It says for T_V_ only , so  looks like it's just

yeah , I think maybe Sky things like that might be incorporated into it , but  I don't know , what do you think ? It just said , for T_V_ only. But I mean , general T_V_ controls do do video as well.


yeah , I think maybe Sky things like that might be incorporated into it , but  I don't know , what do you think ? It just said , for T_V_ only. But I mean , general T_V_ controls do do video as well.

T yeah yeah. I d well I dunno 'cause uh the w if you've g


yeah , I think maybe Sky things like that might be incorporated into it , but  I don't know , what do you think ? It just said , for T_V_ only. But I mean , general T_V_ controls do do video as well.

T yeah yeah. I d well I dunno 'cause uh the w if you've g

I mean you bu well som you get com you get combined T_V_ and videos don't you ?


T yeah yeah. I d well I dunno 'cause uh the w if you've g

I mean you bu well som you get com you get combined T_V_ and videos don't you ?


I mean you bu well som you get com you get combined T_V_ and videos don't you ?

and if you got if you got a Sky box , they have one of those plus boxes , you can record straight off the T_V_ anyway so on to on to like the T_V_ hard drive or so.


and if you got if you got a Sky box , they have one of those plus boxes , you can record straight off the T_V_ anyway so on to on to like the T_V_ hard drive or so.

Mm. I think we assume that it's still got play and stop functions and  programming.


and if you got if you got a Sky box , they have one of those plus boxes , you can record straight off the T_V_ anyway so on to on to like the T_V_ hard drive or so.

Mm. I think we assume that it's still got play and stop functions and  programming.

Anything about that on the market research or something like regarding whether people want a combined something like that ?


Mm. I think we assume that it's still got play and stop functions and  programming.

Anything about that on the market research or something like regarding whether people want a combined something like that ?


Anything about that on the market research or something like regarding whether people want a combined something like that ?

Um we didn't really look into that but remember we found that finding that most people only use about uh ten percent of the buttons ,


Um we didn't really look into that but remember we found that finding that most people only use about uh ten percent of the buttons ,


I think th th those do tend to be the basic channel-hopping things and on and off for the video , fast-forwarding , so on


I think th th those do tend to be the basic channel-hopping things and on and off for the video , fast-forwarding , so on

and I think it's sort of general knowledge that people do find programming their videos a nightmare


and I think it's sort of general knowledge that people do find programming their videos a nightmare


and I think it's sort of general knowledge that people do find programming their videos a nightmare

Ju um just as an idea on the uh speech recognition thing that pr it'd probably be quite expensive to incorporate an entire speech recognition thing


Ju um just as an idea on the uh speech recognition thing that pr it'd probably be quite expensive to incorporate an entire speech recognition thing


In fact I've just called up that table there ,


In fact I've just called up that table there ,

we asked those two questions , the table relates to both questions , so we didn't differentiate. Would you prefer an L_C_D_ screen , that's multi-function remote and would you pay more for speech recognition in a remote control ?


we asked those two questions , the table relates to both questions , so we didn't differentiate. Would you prefer an L_C_D_ screen , that's multi-function remote and would you pay more for speech recognition in a remote control ?

So you can see how the the yes no sort of varies across the age group there ,


So you can see how the the yes no sort of varies across the age group there ,


So you can see how the the yes no sort of varies across the age group there ,

and a substantial number of don't knows in the older age group , I think that's just general fear of new technology.


and a substantial number of don't knows in the older age group , I think that's just general fear of new technology.


and a substantial number of don't knows in the older age group , I think that's just general fear of new technology.

Yeah but um on on that again I just thought  'cause you can get those key chains now and you whistle and then it'll let off a loud noise to let you know where it is


Yeah but um on on that again I just thought  'cause you can get those key chains now and you whistle and then it'll let off a loud noise to let you know where it is


We do have a budget limitation that we can't control ourselves , so I think when we can take a cheaper option which still does the same kinda thing


We do have a budget limitation that we can't control ourselves , so I think when we can take a cheaper option which still does the same kinda thing

um because it is something I  it needs to be  the thing that you use to find it needs to be something that you don't lose , you were saying whistling ,


um because it is something I  it needs to be  the thing that you use to find it needs to be something that you don't lose , you were saying whistling ,

maybe  on the T_V_  you could put like a pack on the T_V_ or something so you can't see the remote , you go and press the button on top of the T_V_ and it beeps


maybe  on the T_V_  you could put like a pack on the T_V_ or something so you can't see the remote , you go and press the button on top of the T_V_ and it beeps

and you're like oh okay it's over there , something like that ,


and you're like oh okay it's over there , something like that ,


and you're like oh okay it's over there , something like that ,

but that's  that sounds a lot cheaper to me.


but that's  that sounds a lot cheaper to me.


but that's  that sounds a lot cheaper to me.

Um  the third thing was that we have to make sure the corporate image is very much incorporated into the handset. Um so we want logo , we want um fashionable , trendy , I mean what you were talking about with the marketing. Um , people paying more for it to look good. Um , we need to focus on that as well.


Um  the third thing was that we have to make sure the corporate image is very much incorporated into the handset. Um so we want logo , we want um fashionable , trendy , I mean what you were talking about with the marketing. Um , people paying more for it to look good. Um , we need to focus on that as well.

Yes , further market research will be needed to kind of focus on what that is , it's gonna be different for a fifteen year old th for somebody who's sixty


Um  the third thing was that we have to make sure the corporate image is very much incorporated into the handset. Um so we want logo , we want um fashionable , trendy , I mean what you were talking about with the marketing. Um , people paying more for it to look good. Um , we need to focus on that as well.

Yes , further market research will be needed to kind of focus on what that is , it's gonna be different for a fifteen year old th for somebody who's sixty

and also across the world if we're aiming at the international market. What is um attractive to a trendy New Yorker and what is attractive to a retired South African , I dunno ,


Yes , further market research will be needed to kind of focus on what that is , it's gonna be different for a fifteen year old th for somebody who's sixty

and also across the world if we're aiming at the international market. What is um attractive to a trendy New Yorker and what is attractive to a retired South African , I dunno ,


and also across the world if we're aiming at the international market. What is um attractive to a trendy New Yorker and what is attractive to a retired South African , I dunno ,

you get the idea. It's it's gonna vary around the world. At the end of the day , th the engineering design is one thing , it's the user interface design that may  and th the sort of you know fashionable aspect of it we might have to change for different markets round the world.


you get the idea. It's it's gonna vary around the world. At the end of the day , th the engineering design is one thing , it's the user interface design that may  and th the sort of you know fashionable aspect of it we might have to change for different markets round the world.

So are we talking of a single model or maybe five , six designs  ?


So are we talking of a single model or maybe five , six designs  ?


So are we talking of a single model or maybe five , six designs  ?

Well y yeah you could you could have a number of different designs


Well y yeah you could you could have a number of different designs


Well y yeah you could you could have a number of different designs

I mean inside they'd be essentially exactly the same.


I mean inside they'd be essentially exactly the same.


I mean inside they'd be essentially exactly the same.

The features could be same and the body could look slightly different.


The features could be same and the body could look slightly different.


What about  you were talking about the buttons ,


What about  you were talking about the buttons ,

um the controls that are coming out now have kind of big , rubber buttons , not tiny little one , big , rubber buttons , but what about , I mean , 'cause we got to make it original , what about um you know with the touch screen computers


What about  you were talking about the buttons ,

um the controls that are coming out now have kind of big , rubber buttons , not tiny little one , big , rubber buttons , but what about , I mean , 'cause we got to make it original , what about um you know with the touch screen computers

'Kay. Yeah , yeah that's what I was just  yeah.


um the controls that are coming out now have kind of big , rubber buttons , not tiny little one , big , rubber buttons , but what about , I mean , 'cause we got to make it original , what about um you know with the touch screen computers

'Kay. Yeah , yeah that's what I was just  yeah.

yeah ? Um so you  it's like a little panel that you touch rather than a button which shouldn't wear out as much either , not sure about the


um the controls that are coming out now have kind of big , rubber buttons , not tiny little one , big , rubber buttons , but what about , I mean , 'cause we got to make it original , what about um you know with the touch screen computers

'Kay. Yeah , yeah that's what I was just  yeah.

yeah ? Um so you  it's like a little panel that you touch rather than a button which shouldn't wear out as much either , not sure about the

No , well no 'cause you wouldn't have to  you don't actually have to press them you just


'Kay. Yeah , yeah that's what I was just  yeah.

yeah ? Um so you  it's like a little panel that you touch rather than a button which shouldn't wear out as much either , not sure about the

No , well no 'cause you wouldn't have to  you don't actually have to press them you just

You don't have to press it , you just have to put your thumb onto it.


yeah ? Um so you  it's like a little panel that you touch rather than a button which shouldn't wear out as much either , not sure about the

No , well no 'cause you wouldn't have to  you don't actually have to press them you just

You don't have to press it , you just have to put your thumb onto it.


No , well no 'cause you wouldn't have to  you don't actually have to press them you just

You don't have to press it , you just have to put your thumb onto it.

Um , think that might appeal  I'm thinking kind of Japan , I'm thinking uh young , um office people ,


You don't have to press it , you just have to put your thumb onto it.

Um , think that might appeal  I'm thinking kind of Japan , I'm thinking uh young , um office people ,


Um , think that might appeal  I'm thinking kind of Japan , I'm thinking uh young , um office people ,


Yes it will appeal to sections of the market def


Yes it will appeal to sections of the market def

Um , but quite , um , easily labelled so that anyone can  oh yeah that's obvious what that's for


Yes it will appeal to sections of the market def

Um , but quite , um , easily labelled so that anyone can  oh yeah that's obvious what that's for

and it's not daunting to maybe the older generations , um


Um , but quite , um , easily labelled so that anyone can  oh yeah that's obvious what that's for

and it's not daunting to maybe the older generations , um


and it's not daunting to maybe the older generations , um

Mm. But also er ergonomics as we're saying with the different designs , ergonomics uh there's sort of physically different things 'cause um  if you've ever seen the X_ Box they had to make two different sized controllers because people in Japan wouldn't buy it because the controller was physically to big


Mm. But also er ergonomics as we're saying with the different designs , ergonomics uh there's sort of physically different things 'cause um  if you've ever seen the X_ Box they had to make two different sized controllers because people in Japan wouldn't buy it because the controller was physically to big

because um  they're c uh just generally Japanese people have smaller hands


because um  they're c uh just generally Japanese people have smaller hands

so they couldn't get round the controller which is uh  so if you  I don't know what  'cause you  obviously you can have bigger buttons for some countries or something and smaller ones for others.


because um  they're c uh just generally Japanese people have smaller hands

so they couldn't get round the controller which is uh  so if you  I don't know what  'cause you  obviously you can have bigger buttons for some countries or something and smaller ones for others.

Yeah , uh maybe to  as uh  it it was indicated that uh uh risk uh of uh repeated use , the injuries , maybe a touch screen could be a better option for that.


so they couldn't get round the controller which is uh  so if you  I don't know what  'cause you  obviously you can have bigger buttons for some countries or something and smaller ones for others.

Yeah , uh maybe to  as uh  it it was indicated that uh uh risk uh of uh repeated use , the injuries , maybe a touch screen could be a better option for that.


so they couldn't get round the controller which is uh  so if you  I don't know what  'cause you  obviously you can have bigger buttons for some countries or something and smaller ones for others.

Yeah , uh maybe to  as uh  it it was indicated that uh uh risk uh of uh repeated use , the injuries , maybe a touch screen could be a better option for that.

So , a bigger b okay so y you're dividing designs based on not only segment age groups , you're desi uh dividing it according to the countries also , the market.