And it looks  And so I looked at all of the utterances from you , Chuck , in that one conversation , I don't know which  You probably know which one I mean , it 's where you were on the lapel  and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says.

But  and  and some of what you  I mean , you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So ,  I actually went through all of those , there were I think fifty - five segments ,  um , in  in X Waves , and  and sort of did a crude check , and  more often than not , it  it gets it wrong. So there 's either the beginning , mostly the beginning word ,  where th you , um , you know , Chuck talks somewhere into the segment , but the first , um , word of what he says , often " I " but it 's very reduced " I , " that 's just aligned  to the beginning of someone else 's speech , uh in that segment , which is cross - talk. So ,  um ,  I 'm still tinkering with it , but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this  out of those , uh ,  channels , so.

Unless maybe we do this , uh , um , cancellation business.


But  and  and some of what you  I mean , you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So ,  I actually went through all of those , there were I think fifty - five segments ,  um , in  in X Waves , and  and sort of did a crude check , and  more often than not , it  it gets it wrong. So there 's either the beginning , mostly the beginning word ,  where th you , um , you know , Chuck talks somewhere into the segment , but the first , um , word of what he says , often " I " but it 's very reduced " I , " that 's just aligned  to the beginning of someone else 's speech , uh in that segment , which is cross - talk. So ,  um ,  I 'm still tinkering with it , but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this  out of those , uh ,  channels , so.

Unless maybe we do this , uh , um , cancellation business.

Right , but that 's  I mean , that was our plan ,


Unless maybe we do this , uh , um , cancellation business.

Right , but that 's  I mean , that was our plan ,

but it 's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.


Right , but that 's  I mean , that was our plan ,

but it 's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.

Oh , the short amount of time thing , right.


but it 's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.

Oh , the short amount of time thing , right.

So  so we  you know , we had spent a lot of time , um , writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that , uh , kind of analysis ,


Oh , the short amount of time thing , right.

So  so we  you know , we had spent a lot of time , um , writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that , uh , kind of analysis ,

but the HLT paper has , you know , it 's a very crude measure of overlap. It 's not really something you could scientifically say is overlap , it 's just whether or not the , um , the segments that were all synchronized , whether there was some overlap somewhere.


So  so we  you know , we had spent a lot of time , um , writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that , uh , kind of analysis ,

but the HLT paper has , you know , it 's a very crude measure of overlap. It 's not really something you could scientifically say is overlap , it 's just whether or not the , um , the segments that were all synchronized , whether there was some overlap somewhere.


but the HLT paper has , you know , it 's a very crude measure of overlap. It 's not really something you could scientifically say is overlap , it 's just whether or not the , um , the segments that were all synchronized , whether there was some overlap somewhere.

And , you know , that pointed out some differences , so he thought well if we can do something quick and dirty because Dan said the cross - cancellation , it 's not straight - forward. If it were straight - forward then we would try it , but  so , it 's sort of good to hear that it was not straight - forward , thinking if we can get decent forced alignments , then at least we can do sort of a overall report of what happens with actual overlap in time , but , um


but the HLT paper has , you know , it 's a very crude measure of overlap. It 's not really something you could scientifically say is overlap , it 's just whether or not the , um , the segments that were all synchronized , whether there was some overlap somewhere.

And , you know , that pointed out some differences , so he thought well if we can do something quick and dirty because Dan said the cross - cancellation , it 's not straight - forward. If it were straight - forward then we would try it , but  so , it 's sort of good to hear that it was not straight - forward , thinking if we can get decent forced alignments , then at least we can do sort of a overall report of what happens with actual overlap in time , but , um

I didn't think that his message said it wasn't straight - forward.


And , you know , that pointed out some differences , so he thought well if we can do something quick and dirty because Dan said the cross - cancellation , it 's not straight - forward. If it were straight - forward then we would try it , but  so , it 's sort of good to hear that it was not straight - forward , thinking if we can get decent forced alignments , then at least we can do sort of a overall report of what happens with actual overlap in time , but , um

I didn't think that his message said it wasn't straight - forward.


I didn't think that his message said it wasn't straight - forward.

I thought he 's just saying you have to look over a longer time window when you do it.


I thought he 's just saying you have to look over a longer time window when you do it.


I thought he 's just saying you have to look over a longer time window when you do it.

and the  but there are some issues of this timing , um , in the recordings


and the  but there are some issues of this timing , um , in the recordings


So you just have to look over longer time when you 're trying to align the things , you can't  you can't just look


So you just have to look over longer time when you 're trying to align the things , you can't  you can't just look

Well. are you talking about the fact that the recording software doesn't do time - synchronous ? Is that what you 're referring to ?


So you just have to look over longer time when you 're trying to align the things , you can't  you can't just look

Well. are you talking about the fact that the recording software doesn't do time - synchronous ? Is that what you 're referring to ?

That seems to me you can do that over the entire file and get a very accurate


So you just have to look over longer time when you 're trying to align the things , you can't  you can't just look

Well. are you talking about the fact that the recording software doesn't do time - synchronous ? Is that what you 're referring to ?

That seems to me you can do that over the entire file and get a very accurate

I don't thi I d I don't think that was the issue.


Well. are you talking about the fact that the recording software doesn't do time - synchronous ? Is that what you 're referring to ?

That seems to me you can do that over the entire file and get a very accurate

I don't thi I d I don't think that was the issue.

I  yeah , that was sort of a side issue.


That seems to me you can do that over the entire file and get a very accurate

I don't thi I d I don't think that was the issue.

I  yeah , that was sort of a side issue.


I don't thi I d I don't think that was the issue.

I  yeah , that was sort of a side issue.

The issue was that you have  to  you have have  you first have to have a pretty good speech detection on the individual channels.


I  yeah , that was sort of a side issue.

The issue was that you have  to  you have have  you first have to have a pretty good speech detection on the individual channels.

And it 's dynamic , so I guess it was more dynamic than some simple models would be able t to  so  so there are some things available , and I don't know too much about this area where if people aren't moving around much than you could apply them , and it should work pretty well if you took care of this recording time difference.


The issue was that you have  to  you have have  you first have to have a pretty good speech detection on the individual channels.

And it 's dynamic , so I guess it was more dynamic than some simple models would be able t to  so  so there are some things available , and I don't know too much about this area where if people aren't moving around much than you could apply them , and it should work pretty well if you took care of this recording time difference.

Right , which should be pretty straight forward.


And it 's dynamic , so I guess it was more dynamic than some simple models would be able t to  so  so there are some things available , and I don't know too much about this area where if people aren't moving around much than you could apply them , and it should work pretty well if you took care of this recording time difference.

Right , which should be pretty straight forward.


Right , which should be pretty straight forward.

um , but then if you add the dynamic aspect of adapting distances , then it wasn't  I guess it just wasn't something that he could do quickly  and not  in time for us to be able to do something by two weeks from now , so. Well less than a week. So  um , so I don't know what we can do if anything , that 's sort of worth , you know , a Eurospeech paper at this point.


um , but then if you add the dynamic aspect of adapting distances , then it wasn't  I guess it just wasn't something that he could do quickly  and not  in time for us to be able to do something by two weeks from now , so. Well less than a week. So  um , so I don't know what we can do if anything , that 's sort of worth , you know , a Eurospeech paper at this point.

Well , Andreas , how well did it work on the non - lapel stuff ?


Well , Andreas , how well did it work on the non - lapel stuff ?


Um , we would really need , ideally , a transcriber  to time mark the  you know , the be at least the beginning and s ends  of contiguous speech. Um ,   and , you know , then with the time marks , you can do an automatic comparison of your  of your forced alignments.


Um , we would really need , ideally , a transcriber  to time mark the  you know , the be at least the beginning and s ends  of contiguous speech. Um ,   and , you know , then with the time marks , you can do an automatic comparison of your  of your forced alignments.

Because  really the  the  at least in terms of how we were gonna use this in our system was to get an ideal  an idea , uh , for each channel about the start and end boundaries.


Because  really the  the  at least in terms of how we were gonna use this in our system was to get an ideal  an idea , uh , for each channel about the start and end boundaries.

We don't really care about like intermediate word boundaries , so


We don't really care about like intermediate word boundaries , so

No , that 's how I 've been looking at it.


No , that 's how I 've been looking at it.

I mean , I don't care that the individual words are aligned correctly ,


I mean , I don't care that the individual words are aligned correctly ,


I mean , I don't care that the individual words are aligned correctly ,

but  you don't wanna , uh , infer from the alignment that someone spoke who didn't.


I mean , I don't care that the individual words are aligned correctly ,

but  you don't wanna , uh , infer from the alignment that someone spoke who didn't.

Right , exactly. So that 's why I was wondering if it


but  you don't wanna , uh , infer from the alignment that someone spoke who didn't.

Right , exactly. So that 's why I was wondering if it


but  you don't wanna , uh , infer from the alignment that someone spoke who didn't.

Right , exactly. So that 's why I was wondering if it

I mean , maybe if it doesn't work for lapel stuff , we can just not use that


Right , exactly. So that 's why I was wondering if it

I mean , maybe if it doesn't work for lapel stuff , we can just not use that


I mean , maybe if it doesn't work for lapel stuff , we can just not use that


I mean , maybe if it doesn't work for lapel stuff , we can just not use that

I haven't  I ha just haven't had the time to , um , do the same procedure on one of the  so I would need a k I would need a channel that has  a speaker whose  who has a lot of overlap but s you know , is a non - lapel mike. And , um ,   where preferably , also there 's someone sitting next to them who talks a lot.


I haven't  I ha just haven't had the time to , um , do the same procedure on one of the  so I would need a k I would need a channel that has  a speaker whose  who has a lot of overlap but s you know , is a non - lapel mike. And , um ,   where preferably , also there 's someone sitting next to them who talks a lot.


maybe someone can help me find a good candidate and then I would be willing to


maybe someone can help me find a good candidate and then I would be willing to

We c you know what ? Maybe the best way to find that would be to look through these.


maybe someone can help me find a good candidate and then I would be willing to

We c you know what ? Maybe the best way to find that would be to look through these.

Cuz you can see the seat numbers , and then you can see what type of mike they were using. And so we just look for , you know , somebody sitting next to Adam at one of the meetings


We c you know what ? Maybe the best way to find that would be to look through these.

Cuz you can see the seat numbers , and then you can see what type of mike they were using. And so we just look for , you know , somebody sitting next to Adam at one of the meetings

Actually y we can tell from the data that we have ,


Cuz you can see the seat numbers , and then you can see what type of mike they were using. And so we just look for , you know , somebody sitting next to Adam at one of the meetings

Actually y we can tell from the data that we have ,


Actually y we can tell from the data that we have ,


It might not be a single person who 's always overlapping that person but any number of people ,


It might not be a single person who 's always overlapping that person but any number of people ,

and , um , if you align the two hypothesis files across the channels , you know , just word alignment , you 'd be able to find that. So  so I guess that 's sort of a last  ther there 're sort of a few things we could do. One is just do like non - lapels if we can get good enough alignments. Another one was to try to get  somehow align Thilo 's energy segmentations with what we have. But then you have the problem of not knowing where the words are because these meetings were done before that segmentation. But maybe there 's something that could be done.


It might not be a single person who 's always overlapping that person but any number of people ,

and , um , if you align the two hypothesis files across the channels , you know , just word alignment , you 'd be able to find that. So  so I guess that 's sort of a last  ther there 're sort of a few things we could do. One is just do like non - lapels if we can get good enough alignments. Another one was to try to get  somehow align Thilo 's energy segmentations with what we have. But then you have the problem of not knowing where the words are because these meetings were done before that segmentation. But maybe there 's something that could be done.

What  what is  why do you need the , um , the forced alignment for the HLT  I mean for the Eurospeech paper ?


and , um , if you align the two hypothesis files across the channels , you know , just word alignment , you 'd be able to find that. So  so I guess that 's sort of a last  ther there 're sort of a few things we could do. One is just do like non - lapels if we can get good enough alignments. Another one was to try to get  somehow align Thilo 's energy segmentations with what we have. But then you have the problem of not knowing where the words are because these meetings were done before that segmentation. But maybe there 's something that could be done.

What  what is  why do you need the , um , the forced alignment for the HLT  I mean for the Eurospeech paper ?

Well , I guess I  I wanted to just do something not on recognition experiments because that 's ju way too early , but to be able to report , you know , actual numbers. Like if we  if we had hand - transcribed pe good alignments or hand - checked alignments , then we could do this paper. It 's not that we need it to be automatic. But without knowing where the real words are , in time


and , um , if you align the two hypothesis files across the channels , you know , just word alignment , you 'd be able to find that. So  so I guess that 's sort of a last  ther there 're sort of a few things we could do. One is just do like non - lapels if we can get good enough alignments. Another one was to try to get  somehow align Thilo 's energy segmentations with what we have. But then you have the problem of not knowing where the words are because these meetings were done before that segmentation. But maybe there 's something that could be done.

What  what is  why do you need the , um , the forced alignment for the HLT  I mean for the Eurospeech paper ?

Well , I guess I  I wanted to just do something not on recognition experiments because that 's ju way too early , but to be able to report , you know , actual numbers. Like if we  if we had hand - transcribed pe good alignments or hand - checked alignments , then we could do this paper. It 's not that we need it to be automatic. But without knowing where the real words are , in time

So it was to get  it was to get more data and better  to  to squeeze the boundaries in.


What  what is  why do you need the , um , the forced alignment for the HLT  I mean for the Eurospeech paper ?

Well , I guess I  I wanted to just do something not on recognition experiments because that 's ju way too early , but to be able to report , you know , actual numbers. Like if we  if we had hand - transcribed pe good alignments or hand - checked alignments , then we could do this paper. It 's not that we need it to be automatic. But without knowing where the real words are , in time

So it was to get  it was to get more data and better  to  to squeeze the boundaries in.

To  to know what an overlap really  if it 's really an overlap , or if it 's just a  a  a segment correlated with an overlap ,


Well , I guess I  I wanted to just do something not on recognition experiments because that 's ju way too early , but to be able to report , you know , actual numbers. Like if we  if we had hand - transcribed pe good alignments or hand - checked alignments , then we could do this paper. It 's not that we need it to be automatic. But without knowing where the real words are , in time

So it was to get  it was to get more data and better  to  to squeeze the boundaries in.

To  to know what an overlap really  if it 's really an overlap , or if it 's just a  a  a segment correlated with an overlap ,


So it was to get  it was to get more data and better  to  to squeeze the boundaries in.

To  to know what an overlap really  if it 's really an overlap , or if it 's just a  a  a segment correlated with an overlap ,

and I guess that 's the difference to me between like a real paper and a sort of , promissory paper. So , um , if we d it might be possible to take Thilo 's output and like if you have , um , like right now these meetings are all ,


To  to know what an overlap really  if it 's really an overlap , or if it 's just a  a  a segment correlated with an overlap ,

and I guess that 's the difference to me between like a real paper and a sort of , promissory paper. So , um , if we d it might be possible to take Thilo 's output and like if you have , um , like right now these meetings are all ,

Ugh ! I forgot the digital camera again.


and I guess that 's the difference to me between like a real paper and a sort of , promissory paper. So , um , if we d it might be possible to take Thilo 's output and like if you have , um , like right now these meetings are all ,

Ugh ! I forgot the digital camera again.


Ugh ! I forgot the digital camera again.

you know , they 're time - aligned , so if these are two different channels and somebody 's talking here and somebody else is talking here , just that word , if Thilo can tell us that there 're boundaries here , we should be able to figure that out


you know , they 're time - aligned , so if these are two different channels and somebody 's talking here and somebody else is talking here , just that word , if Thilo can tell us that there 're boundaries here , we should be able to figure that out


you know , they 're time - aligned , so if these are two different channels and somebody 's talking here and somebody else is talking here , just that word , if Thilo can tell us that there 're boundaries here , we should be able to figure that out

because the only thing transcribed in this channel is this word. But , um , you know , if there are things


because the only thing transcribed in this channel is this word. But , um , you know , if there are things

Yeah , if you have two and they 're at the edges , it 's like here and here , and there 's speech here , then it doesn't really help you , so , um


because the only thing transcribed in this channel is this word. But , um , you know , if there are things

Yeah , if you have two and they 're at the edges , it 's like here and here , and there 's speech here , then it doesn't really help you , so , um

Thilo 's won't put down two separate marks in that case


Yeah , if you have two and they 're at the edges , it 's like here and here , and there 's speech here , then it doesn't really help you , so , um

Thilo 's won't put down two separate marks in that case

Well it w it would , but , um , we don't know exactly where the words are because the transcriber gave us two words in this time bin


Thilo 's won't put down two separate marks in that case

Well it w it would , but , um , we don't know exactly where the words are because the transcriber gave us two words in this time bin


Well it w it would , but , um , we don't know exactly where the words are because the transcriber gave us two words in this time bin

Well it 's a merging problem. If you had a  if you had a s if you had a script which would


Well it 's a merging problem. If you had a  if you had a s if you had a script which would


Well it 's a merging problem. If you had a  if you had a s if you had a script which would

I 've thought about this , um , and I 've discussed  I 've discussed it with Thilo ,


I 've thought about this , um , and I 've discussed  I 've discussed it with Thilo ,

um , the , I mean , I  I  in principle I could imagine writing a script which would approximate it to some degree , but there is this problem of slippage ,


I 've thought about this , um , and I 've discussed  I 've discussed it with Thilo ,

um , the , I mean , I  I  in principle I could imagine writing a script which would approximate it to some degree , but there is this problem of slippage ,

Well maybe  Maybe that will get enough of the cases to be useful.


um , the , I mean , I  I  in principle I could imagine writing a script which would approximate it to some degree , but there is this problem of slippage ,

Well maybe  Maybe that will get enough of the cases to be useful.


um , the , I mean , I  I  in principle I could imagine writing a script which would approximate it to some degree , but there is this problem of slippage ,

Well maybe  Maybe that will get enough of the cases to be useful.

Right. I mean , that  that would be really helpful. That was sort of another possibility.


Well maybe  Maybe that will get enough of the cases to be useful.

Right. I mean , that  that would be really helpful. That was sort of another possibility.

You know s cuz it seemed like most of the cases are in fact the single word sorts , or at least a single phrase


Right. I mean , that  that would be really helpful. That was sort of another possibility.

You know s cuz it seemed like most of the cases are in fact the single word sorts , or at least a single phrase


You know s cuz it seemed like most of the cases are in fact the single word sorts , or at least a single phrase


I wouldn't make that generalization cuz sometimes people will say , " And then I " and there 's a long pause


I wouldn't make that generalization cuz sometimes people will say , " And then I " and there 's a long pause

and finish the sentence and  and sometimes it looks coherent and  and the  I mean it 's  it 's not a simple problem. But it 's really  And then it 's coupled with the problem that sometimes , you know , with  with a fricative you might get the beginning of the word cut off and so it 's coupled with the problem that Thilo 's isn't perfect either. I mean , we 've i th it 's like you have a merging problem plus  so merging plus this problem of , uh , not


and finish the sentence and  and sometimes it looks coherent and  and the  I mean it 's  it 's not a simple problem. But it 's really  And then it 's coupled with the problem that sometimes , you know , with  with a fricative you might get the beginning of the word cut off and so it 's coupled with the problem that Thilo 's isn't perfect either. I mean , we 've i th it 's like you have a merging problem plus  so merging plus this problem of , uh , not

y i i if the speech - nonspeech were perfect to begin with , the detector , that would already be an improvement , but that 's impossible , you know , i that 's too much to ask.


y i i if the speech - nonspeech were perfect to begin with , the detector , that would already be an improvement , but that 's impossible , you know , i that 's too much to ask.


y i i if the speech - nonspeech were perfect to begin with , the detector , that would already be an improvement , but that 's impossible , you know , i that 's too much to ask.

And so i and may you know , I mean , it 's  I think that there always  th there would have to be some hand - tweaking , but it 's possible that a script could be written to merge those two types of things. I 've  I 've discussed it with Thilo and I mean  in terms of not him doing it , but we  we discussed some of the parameters of that and how hard it would be to  in principle  to write something that would do that.


And so i and may you know , I mean , it 's  I think that there always  th there would have to be some hand - tweaking , but it 's possible that a script could be written to merge those two types of things. I 've  I 've discussed it with Thilo and I mean  in terms of not him doing it , but we  we discussed some of the parameters of that and how hard it would be to  in principle  to write something that would do that.

I mean , I guess in the future it won't be as much as an issue if transcribers are using the tightened boundaries to start with , then we have a good idea of where the forced alignment is constrained to.


And so i and may you know , I mean , it 's  I think that there always  th there would have to be some hand - tweaking , but it 's possible that a script could be written to merge those two types of things. I 've  I 've discussed it with Thilo and I mean  in terms of not him doing it , but we  we discussed some of the parameters of that and how hard it would be to  in principle  to write something that would do that.

I mean , I guess in the future it won't be as much as an issue if transcribers are using the tightened boundaries to start with , then we have a good idea of where the forced alignment is constrained to.

Well , it 's just , you know , a matter of we had the revolution  we had the revolution of improved , uh , interface , um , one month too late ,


I mean , I guess in the future it won't be as much as an issue if transcribers are using the tightened boundaries to start with , then we have a good idea of where the forced alignment is constrained to.

Well , it 's just , you know , a matter of we had the revolution  we had the revolution of improved , uh , interface , um , one month too late ,


Well , it 's just , you know , a matter of we had the revolution  we had the revolution of improved , uh , interface , um , one month too late ,

but it 's like , you know , it 's wonderful to have the revolution ,


but it 's like , you know , it 's wonderful to have the revolution ,


but it 's like , you know , it 's wonderful to have the revolution ,

so it 's just a matter of  of , you know , from now on we 'll be able to have things channelized to begin with.


so it 's just a matter of  of , you know , from now on we 'll be able to have things channelized to begin with.

Right. And we 'll just have to see how hard that is.


Right. And we 'll just have to see how hard that is.

So  so whether the corrections take too much time.


So  so whether the corrections take too much time.

I was just thinking about the fact that if Thilo 's missed these short segments , that might be quite time - consuming for them to insert them.


I was just thinking about the fact that if Thilo 's missed these short segments , that might be quite time - consuming for them to insert them.


I was just thinking about the fact that if Thilo 's missed these short segments , that might be quite time - consuming for them to insert them.

But he  he also can adjust this minimum time duration constraint and then what you get is noises mostly ,


But he  he also can adjust this minimum time duration constraint and then what you get is noises mostly ,


It might be easier to delete something that 's wrong than to insert something that 's missing.


It might be easier to delete something that 's wrong than to insert something that 's missing.

Right. And you can also see in the waveform  exac


Right. And you can also see in the waveform  exac

If you can feel confident that what the  yeah , that there 's actually something


If you can feel confident that what the  yeah , that there 's actually something


If you can feel confident that what the  yeah , that there 's actually something

Yeah. Cuz then  then you just delete it , and you don't have to pick a time.


Yeah. Cuz then  then you just delete it , and you don't have to pick a time.


Yeah. Cuz then  then you just delete it , and you don't have to pick a time.

Well the problem is I  you know  I  I  it 's a  it 's a really good question , and I really find it a pain in the neck to delete things because you have to get the mouse up there on the t on the text line and i and otherwise you just use an arrow to get down  I mean , i it depends on how lar th there 's so many extra things that would make it one of them harder than the other , or  or vice versa. It 's not a simple question. But , you know , I mean , in principle , like , you know , if one of them is easier then to bias it towards whichever one 's easier.


Well the problem is I  you know  I  I  it 's a  it 's a really good question , and I really find it a pain in the neck to delete things because you have to get the mouse up there on the t on the text line and i and otherwise you just use an arrow to get down  I mean , i it depends on how lar th there 's so many extra things that would make it one of them harder than the other , or  or vice versa. It 's not a simple question. But , you know , I mean , in principle , like , you know , if one of them is easier then to bias it towards whichever one 's easier.

Yeah , I guess the semantics aren't clear when you delete a segment , right ? Because you would say  You would have to determine what the surroundings were.


Well the problem is I  you know  I  I  it 's a  it 's a really good question , and I really find it a pain in the neck to delete things because you have to get the mouse up there on the t on the text line and i and otherwise you just use an arrow to get down  I mean , i it depends on how lar th there 's so many extra things that would make it one of them harder than the other , or  or vice versa. It 's not a simple question. But , you know , I mean , in principle , like , you know , if one of them is easier then to bias it towards whichever one 's easier.

Yeah , I guess the semantics aren't clear when you delete a segment , right ? Because you would say  You would have to determine what the surroundings were.

You could just say it 's a noise , though , and write , you know , a post - processor will just  all you have to do is just


Yeah , I guess the semantics aren't clear when you delete a segment , right ? Because you would say  You would have to determine what the surroundings were.

You could just say it 's a noise , though , and write , you know , a post - processor will just  all you have to do is just

or just say it 's  just put " X , " you know , like " not speech " or something ,


You could just say it 's a noise , though , and write , you know , a post - processor will just  all you have to do is just

or just say it 's  just put " X , " you know , like " not speech " or something ,

I think it 's easier to add than delete , frankly ,


or just say it 's  just put " X , " you know , like " not speech " or something ,

I think it 's easier to add than delete , frankly ,


or just say it 's  just put " X , " you know , like " not speech " or something ,

I think it 's easier to add than delete , frankly ,

because you have to , uh , maneuver around on the  on both windows then.


I think it 's easier to add than delete , frankly ,

because you have to , uh , maneuver around on the  on both windows then.


because you have to , uh , maneuver around on the  on both windows then.


OK. That  Maybe that 's an interface issue that might be addressable.


OK. That  Maybe that 's an interface issue that might be addressable.

But I think it 's the semantics that are  that are questionable to me , that you delete something  So let 's say someone is talking to here , and then you have a little segment here. Well , is that part of the speech ? Is it part of the nonspeech ? I mean , w what do you embed it in ?


OK. That  Maybe that 's an interface issue that might be addressable.

But I think it 's the semantics that are  that are questionable to me , that you delete something  So let 's say someone is talking to here , and then you have a little segment here. Well , is that part of the speech ? Is it part of the nonspeech ? I mean , w what do you embed it in ?

There 's something nice , though , about keeping , and this is probably another discussion , keeping the stuff that Thilo 's detector detected as possible speech and just marking it as not speech than deleting it. Because then when you align it , then the alignment can  you can put a reject model or whatever ,


But I think it 's the semantics that are  that are questionable to me , that you delete something  So let 's say someone is talking to here , and then you have a little segment here. Well , is that part of the speech ? Is it part of the nonspeech ? I mean , w what do you embed it in ?

There 's something nice , though , about keeping , and this is probably another discussion , keeping the stuff that Thilo 's detector detected as possible speech and just marking it as not speech than deleting it. Because then when you align it , then the alignment can  you can put a reject model or whatever ,

Oh , I see. So then they could just like put  Oh that 's what you meant by just put an " X " there.


But I think it 's the semantics that are  that are questionable to me , that you delete something  So let 's say someone is talking to here , and then you have a little segment here. Well , is that part of the speech ? Is it part of the nonspeech ? I mean , w what do you embed it in ?

There 's something nice , though , about keeping , and this is probably another discussion , keeping the stuff that Thilo 's detector detected as possible speech and just marking it as not speech than deleting it. Because then when you align it , then the alignment can  you can put a reject model or whatever ,

Oh , I see. So then they could just like put  Oh that 's what you meant by just put an " X " there.

and you 're consistent with th the automatic system ,


There 's something nice , though , about keeping , and this is probably another discussion , keeping the stuff that Thilo 's detector detected as possible speech and just marking it as not speech than deleting it. Because then when you align it , then the alignment can  you can put a reject model or whatever ,

Oh , I see. So then they could just like put  Oh that 's what you meant by just put an " X " there.

and you 're consistent with th the automatic system ,


Oh , I see. So then they could just like put  Oh that 's what you meant by just put an " X " there.

and you 're consistent with th the automatic system ,


and you 're consistent with th the automatic system ,

So  so all they  So that all they would have to do is put like an " X " there.


So  so all they  So that all they would have to do is put like an " X " there.

Yeah , or some , you know , dummy reject mod


So  so all they  So that all they would have to do is put like an " X " there.

Yeah , or some , you know , dummy reject mod

So blank for  blank for silence , " S " " S " for speech , " X " " X " for something else.


So  so all they  So that all they would have to do is put like an " X " there.

Yeah , or some , you know , dummy reject mod

So blank for  blank for silence , " S " " S " for speech , " X " " X " for something else.

whatever , yeah. That 's actually a better way to do it cuz the a the forced alignment will probably be more consistent than


Yeah , or some , you know , dummy reject mod

So blank for  blank for silence , " S " " S " for speech , " X " " X " for something else.

whatever , yeah. That 's actually a better way to do it cuz the a the forced alignment will probably be more consistent than

Well , like , I think there 's a complication which is that  that you can have speech and noise in s


So blank for  blank for silence , " S " " S " for speech , " X " " X " for something else.

whatever , yeah. That 's actually a better way to do it cuz the a the forced alignment will probably be more consistent than

Well , like , I think there 's a complication which is that  that you can have speech and noise in s


whatever , yeah. That 's actually a better way to do it cuz the a the forced alignment will probably be more consistent than

Well , like , I think there 's a complication which is that  that you can have speech and noise in s

uh , you know , on the same channel , the same speaker , so now sometimes you get a ni microphone pop and , uh , I mean , there 're these fuzzy hybrid cases , and then the problem with the boundaries that have to be shifted around. It 's not a simple  not a simple problem.


Well , like , I think there 's a complication which is that  that you can have speech and noise in s

uh , you know , on the same channel , the same speaker , so now sometimes you get a ni microphone pop and , uh , I mean , there 're these fuzzy hybrid cases , and then the problem with the boundaries that have to be shifted around. It 's not a simple  not a simple problem.

Anyway , quick question , though , at a high level do people think , let 's just say that we 're moving to this new era of like using the , um , pre - segmented t you know , non - synchronous conversations , does it make sense to try to take what we have now , which are the ones that , you know , we have recognition on which are synchronous and not time - tightened , and try to get something out of those for sort of purposes of illustrating the structure and the nature of the meetings , or is it better to just , you know , forget that and tr I mean , it 's


uh , you know , on the same channel , the same speaker , so now sometimes you get a ni microphone pop and , uh , I mean , there 're these fuzzy hybrid cases , and then the problem with the boundaries that have to be shifted around. It 's not a simple  not a simple problem.

Anyway , quick question , though , at a high level do people think , let 's just say that we 're moving to this new era of like using the , um , pre - segmented t you know , non - synchronous conversations , does it make sense to try to take what we have now , which are the ones that , you know , we have recognition on which are synchronous and not time - tightened , and try to get something out of those for sort of purposes of illustrating the structure and the nature of the meetings , or is it better to just , you know , forget that and tr I mean , it 's

Well , I think we 'll have to , eventually. And my hope was that we would be able to use the forced alignment to get it.


Anyway , quick question , though , at a high level do people think , let 's just say that we 're moving to this new era of like using the , um , pre - segmented t you know , non - synchronous conversations , does it make sense to try to take what we have now , which are the ones that , you know , we have recognition on which are synchronous and not time - tightened , and try to get something out of those for sort of purposes of illustrating the structure and the nature of the meetings , or is it better to just , you know , forget that and tr I mean , it 's

Well , I think we 'll have to , eventually. And my hope was that we would be able to use the forced alignment to get it.


Well , I think we 'll have to , eventually. And my hope was that we would be able to use the forced alignment to get it.

And maybe we can for the non - lapel , but


And maybe we can for the non - lapel , but

But if we can't , then maybe we just have to


And maybe we can for the non - lapel , but

But if we can't , then maybe we just have to

is it worth  if we can't then we can fake it even if we 're  we report , you know , we 're wrong twenty percent of the time or ten percent of the time.


And maybe we can for the non - lapel , but

But if we can't , then maybe we just have to

is it worth  if we can't then we can fake it even if we 're  we report , you know , we 're wrong twenty percent of the time or ten percent of the time.

Well , I 'm thinking  are you talking about for a paper , or are talking about for the corpus.


But if we can't , then maybe we just have to

is it worth  if we can't then we can fake it even if we 're  we report , you know , we 're wrong twenty percent of the time or ten percent of the time.

Well , I 'm thinking  are you talking about for a paper , or are talking about for the corpus.

Uh  uh , that 's a good question actually.


is it worth  if we can't then we can fake it even if we 're  we report , you know , we 're wrong twenty percent of the time or ten percent of the time.

Well , I 'm thinking  are you talking about for a paper , or are talking about for the corpus.

Uh  uh , that 's a good question actually.

I mean cuz for the corpus it would be nice if everything were


Well , I 'm thinking  are you talking about for a paper , or are talking about for the corpus.

Uh  uh , that 's a good question actually.

I mean cuz for the corpus it would be nice if everything were

Actually that 's a good question because we 'd have to completely redo those meetings , and we have like ten of them now.


Uh  uh , that 's a good question actually.

I mean cuz for the corpus it would be nice if everything were

Actually that 's a good question because we 'd have to completely redo those meetings , and we have like ten of them now.

We wouldn't have to re - do them , we would just have to edit them.


I mean cuz for the corpus it would be nice if everything were

Actually that 's a good question because we 'd have to completely redo those meetings , and we have like ten of them now.

We wouldn't have to re - do them , we would just have to edit them.

Well , and also , I mean , I still haven't  I still haven't given up on forced alignment.


Actually that 's a good question because we 'd have to completely redo those meetings , and we have like ten of them now.

We wouldn't have to re - do them , we would just have to edit them.

Well , and also , I mean , I still haven't  I still haven't given up on forced alignment.


We wouldn't have to re - do them , we would just have to edit them.

Well , and also , I mean , I still haven't  I still haven't given up on forced alignment.

I think that when Brian comes , this 'll be uh an interesting aspect to ask him as well b


Well , and also , I mean , I still haven't  I still haven't given up on forced alignment.

I think that when Brian comes , this 'll be uh an interesting aspect to ask him as well b


I think that when Brian comes , this 'll be uh an interesting aspect to ask him as well b


I think that when Brian comes , this 'll be uh an interesting aspect to ask him as well b

Oh , Brian. You s I thought you said Ryan. And it 's like , " Who 's Ryan ? "


Oh , Brian. You s I thought you said Ryan. And it 's like , " Who 's Ryan ? "


Uh , no , that 's a good point , though , because for feature extraction like for prosody or something , I mean , the meetings we have now , it 's a good chunk of data


So we should at least try it even if we can't ,


So we should at least try it even if we can't ,

and that 's what  that 's what  you know , ever since the  the February meeting that I transcribed from last year , forced alignment has been on the  on the table as a way of cleaning them up later.


and that 's what  that 's what  you know , ever since the  the February meeting that I transcribed from last year , forced alignment has been on the  on the table as a way of cleaning them up later.

And  and so I 'm hopeful that that 's possible. I know that there 's complication in the overlap sections and with the lapel mikes ,


And  and so I 'm hopeful that that 's possible. I know that there 's complication in the overlap sections and with the lapel mikes ,


I mean , we might be able , at the very worst , we can get transcribers to correct the cases where  I mean , you sort of have a good estimate where these places are because the recognition 's so poor. Right ?


I mean , we might be able , at the very worst , we can get transcribers to correct the cases where  I mean , you sort of have a good estimate where these places are because the recognition 's so poor. Right ?

Yeah , we were never just gonna go with these as the final alignments.


Yeah , we were never just gonna go with these as the final alignments.

We were always gonna run them past somebody.


We were always gonna run them past somebody.


We were always gonna run them past somebody.

So we need some way to push these first chunk of meetings into a state where we get good alignments.


So we need some way to push these first chunk of meetings into a state where we get good alignments.

I 'm probably going to spend another day or so trying to improve things by , um ,   by using , um , acoustic adaptation. Um , the   Right now I 'm using the unadapted models for the forced alignments , and it 's possible that you get considerably better results if you , uh , manage to adapt the ,  uh , phone models to the speaker and the reject model to the  to  to all the other speech. Um , so


So we need some way to push these first chunk of meetings into a state where we get good alignments.

I 'm probably going to spend another day or so trying to improve things by , um ,   by using , um , acoustic adaptation. Um , the   Right now I 'm using the unadapted models for the forced alignments , and it 's possible that you get considerably better results if you , uh , manage to adapt the ,  uh , phone models to the speaker and the reject model to the  to  to all the other speech. Um , so

Could you  could you at the same time adapt the reject model to the speech from all the other channels ?


I 'm probably going to spend another day or so trying to improve things by , um ,   by using , um , acoustic adaptation. Um , the   Right now I 'm using the unadapted models for the forced alignments , and it 's possible that you get considerably better results if you , uh , manage to adapt the ,  uh , phone models to the speaker and the reject model to the  to  to all the other speech. Um , so

Could you  could you at the same time adapt the reject model to the speech from all the other channels ?


Could you  could you at the same time adapt the reject model to the speech from all the other channels ?


Oh , not just the speech from that  of the other people from that channel ,


Oh , not just the speech from that  of the other people from that channel ,

but the speech from the a actual other channels.


but the speech from the a actual other channels.


I don't think so. I don't think that would work ,


I don't think so. I don't think that would work ,

right ? Because you 'd  A lot of it 's dominated by channel properties.


right ? Because you 'd  A lot of it 's dominated by channel properties.

But what you do wanna do is take the , even if it 's klugey , take the segments  the synchronous segments , the ones from the HLT paper , where only that speaker was talking.


But what you do wanna do is take the , even if it 's klugey , take the segments  the synchronous segments , the ones from the HLT paper , where only that speaker was talking.

Use those for adaptation , cuz if you  if you use everything , then you get all the cross - talk in the adaptation , and it 's just sort of blurred.


Use those for adaptation , cuz if you  if you use everything , then you get all the cross - talk in the adaptation , and it 's just sort of blurred.


And that we know , I mean , we have that. And it 's about roughly two - thirds , I mean , very roughly averaged.


And that we know , I mean , we have that. And it 's about roughly two - thirds , I mean , very roughly averaged.

That 's not completely negligible. Like a third of it is bad for adaptation or so.


That 's not completely negligible. Like a third of it is bad for adaptation or so.

Cool. I thought it was higher than that , that 's pr


That 's not completely negligible. Like a third of it is bad for adaptation or so.

Cool. I thought it was higher than that , that 's pr

It really  it depends a lot. This is just sort of an overall


Cool. I thought it was higher than that , that 's pr

It really  it depends a lot. This is just sort of an overall


Cool. I thought it was higher than that , that 's pr

It really  it depends a lot. This is just sort of an overall

Well I know what we 're not turning in to Eurospeech , a redo of the HLT paper.


It really  it depends a lot. This is just sort of an overall

Well I know what we 're not turning in to Eurospeech , a redo of the HLT paper.


Well I know what we 're not turning in to Eurospeech , a redo of the HLT paper.


Yeah. But I think we 're  oh , Morgan 's talk went very well , I think.


Yeah. But I think we 're  oh , Morgan 's talk went very well , I think.

I think Morgan 's talk went very well it woke


I think Morgan 's talk went very well it woke


I think Morgan 's talk went very well it woke

you know , it was really a well presented  and got people laughing


you know , it was really a well presented  and got people laughing


you know , it was really a well presented  and got people laughing

Especially the batteried meter popping up ,


Especially the batteried meter popping up ,


Especially the batteried meter popping up ,

that was hilarious. Right when you were talking about that.


Especially the batteried meter popping up ,

that was hilarious. Right when you were talking about that.

You know , that wa that was the battery meter saying that it was fully charged ,


that was hilarious. Right when you were talking about that.

You know , that wa that was the battery meter saying that it was fully charged ,


You know , that wa that was the battery meter saying that it was fully charged ,

You said , " Speaking about energy " , or  something.


You said , " Speaking about energy " , or  something.


He  he  he was onto the bullet points about talking about the  you know  the little hand - held , and trying to get lower power and so on ,


He  he  he was onto the bullet points about talking about the  you know  the little hand - held , and trying to get lower power and so on ,

and Microsoft pops up a little window saying " Your batteries are now fully charged. "


and Microsoft pops up a little window saying " Your batteries are now fully charged. "


and Microsoft pops up a little window saying " Your batteries are now fully charged. "

I 'm thinking about scripting that for my talk , you know , put  put a little script in there to say " Your batteries are low " right when I 'm saying that.


I 'm thinking about scripting that for my talk , you know , put  put a little script in there to say " Your batteries are low " right when I 'm saying that.

Yeah. Yeah. No I mean , i in  in your case , I mean , you were joking about it , but , I mean , your case the fact that your talking about similar things at a couple of conferences , it 's not  these are conferences that have d really different emphases. Whereas HLT and  and Eurospeech , pretty  pretty  pretty similar , so I  I  I can't see really just putting in the same thing ,


I 'm thinking about scripting that for my talk , you know , put  put a little script in there to say " Your batteries are low " right when I 'm saying that.

Yeah. Yeah. No I mean , i in  in your case , I mean , you were joking about it , but , I mean , your case the fact that your talking about similar things at a couple of conferences , it 's not  these are conferences that have d really different emphases. Whereas HLT and  and Eurospeech , pretty  pretty  pretty similar , so I  I  I can't see really just putting in the same thing ,

No , I d I don't think that paper is really


Yeah. Yeah. No I mean , i in  in your case , I mean , you were joking about it , but , I mean , your case the fact that your talking about similar things at a couple of conferences , it 's not  these are conferences that have d really different emphases. Whereas HLT and  and Eurospeech , pretty  pretty  pretty similar , so I  I  I can't see really just putting in the same thing ,

No , I d I don't think that paper is really


No , I d I don't think that paper is really

the HLT paper is really more of a introduction - to - the - project paper , and , um


the HLT paper is really more of a introduction - to - the - project paper , and , um

Yeah , for Eurospeech we want some results if we can get them.


the HLT paper is really more of a introduction - to - the - project paper , and , um

Yeah , for Eurospeech we want some results if we can get them.

Well , yeah , it  it 's  probably wouldn't make sense ,


Yeah , for Eurospeech we want some results if we can get them.

Well , yeah , it  it 's  probably wouldn't make sense ,

Or some  or some  I mean , I would see Eurospeech  if we have some Eurospeech papers , these will be paper p p uh , submissions.


Well , yeah , it  it 's  probably wouldn't make sense ,

Or some  or some  I mean , I would see Eurospeech  if we have some Eurospeech papers , these will be paper p p uh , submissions.

These will be things that are particular things , aspects of it that we 're looking at , rather than , you know , attempt at a global paper about it.


Or some  or some  I mean , I would see Eurospeech  if we have some Eurospeech papers , these will be paper p p uh , submissions.

These will be things that are particular things , aspects of it that we 're looking at , rather than , you know , attempt at a global paper about it.


These will be things that are particular things , aspects of it that we 're looking at , rather than , you know , attempt at a global paper about it.


These will be things that are particular things , aspects of it that we 're looking at , rather than , you know , attempt at a global paper about it.

I did go through one of these meetings. I had , uh , one of the transcribers go through and tighten up the bins on one of the , uh , NSA meetings , and then I went through afterwards and double - checked it so that one is really very  very accurate.


I did go through one of these meetings. I had , uh , one of the transcribers go through and tighten up the bins on one of the , uh , NSA meetings , and then I went through afterwards and double - checked it so that one is really very  very accurate.


I did go through one of these meetings. I had , uh , one of the transcribers go through and tighten up the bins on one of the , uh , NSA meetings , and then I went through afterwards and double - checked it so that one is really very  very accurate.

I men I mentioned the link. I sent  You know that one ?


I men I mentioned the link. I sent  You know that one ?


I men I mentioned the link. I sent  You know that one ?

Um , I 'm trying to remember  I don't remember the number off hand.


Um , I 'm trying to remember  I don't remember the number off hand.


Um , I 'm trying to remember  I don't remember the number off hand.

It 's one of the NSA 's. I sent email before the conference , before last week.


It 's one of the NSA 's. I sent email before the conference , before last week.

Bef - What I mean is Wednesday , Thursday.


It 's one of the NSA 's. I sent email before the conference , before last week.

Bef - What I mean is Wednesday , Thursday.

That might  might have been the one  one of the ones that we did.


Bef - What I mean is Wednesday , Thursday.

That might  might have been the one  one of the ones that we did.


Bef - What I mean is Wednesday , Thursday.

That might  might have been the one  one of the ones that we did.

I 'm sure that that one 's accurate , I 've been through it  myself.


That might  might have been the one  one of the ones that we did.

I 'm sure that that one 's accurate , I 've been through it  myself.

So that might actually be useful but they 're all non - native speakers.


I 'm sure that that one 's accurate , I 've been through it  myself.

So that might actually be useful but they 're all non - native speakers.


So that might actually be useful but they 're all non - native speakers.


Yeah. Yeah , that 's what I was gonna say. The problem with those , they 're all German.


Yeah. Yeah , that 's what I was gonna say. The problem with those , they 're all German.

Yeah , that 's the problem with the NSA speakers.


Yeah. Yeah , that 's what I was gonna say. The problem with those , they 're all German.

Yeah , that 's the problem with the NSA speakers.

And e and e and extremely hard to follow , like word - wise ,


Yeah , that 's the problem with the NSA speakers.

And e and e and extremely hard to follow , like word - wise ,


Yeah , that 's the problem with the NSA speakers.

And e and e and extremely hard to follow , like word - wise ,

I bet the transcri I mean , I have no idea what they 're talking about ,


And e and e and extremely hard to follow , like word - wise ,

I bet the transcri I mean , I have no idea what they 're talking about ,


I bet the transcri I mean , I have no idea what they 're talking about ,

I corrected it for a number of the words.


I corrected it for a number of the words.

I 'm sure that , um , they 're  they 're accurate now.


I 'm sure that , um , they 're  they 're accurate now.


I 'm sure that , um , they 're  they 're accurate now.

I mean , this is tough for a language model probably


I mean , this is tough for a language model probably


I mean , this is tough for a language model probably

but  but that might be useful just for speech.


but  but that might be useful just for speech.

OK , Andreas is leaving  leaving the building. Mm - hmm.


OK , Andreas is leaving  leaving the building. Mm - hmm.


OK , Andreas is leaving  leaving the building. Mm - hmm.

See ya. I don't think we 'll go much longer.


See ya. I don't think we 'll go much longer.

Um , oh , before you l go  I guess it 's alright for you to talk a little without the mike  I noticed you adjusting the mike a lot , did it not fit you well ? Oh.


See ya. I don't think we 'll go much longer.

Um , oh , before you l go  I guess it 's alright for you to talk a little without the mike  I noticed you adjusting the mike a lot , did it not fit you well ? Oh.

Well I won I noticed when you turned your head , it would  it would tilt.


See ya. I don't think we 'll go much longer.

Um , oh , before you l go  I guess it 's alright for you to talk a little without the mike  I noticed you adjusting the mike a lot , did it not fit you well ? Oh.

Well I won I noticed when you turned your head , it would  it would tilt.

Maybe it wasn't just tightened enough , or


Um , oh , before you l go  I guess it 's alright for you to talk a little without the mike  I noticed you adjusting the mike a lot , did it not fit you well ? Oh.

Well I won I noticed when you turned your head , it would  it would tilt.

Maybe it wasn't just tightened enough , or

Maybe the  yeah , the s thing that you have tightened @ @ ,


Well I won I noticed when you turned your head , it would  it would tilt.

Maybe it wasn't just tightened enough , or

Maybe the  yeah , the s thing that you have tightened @ @ ,

Actually if  if you have a larger head , that mike 's gotta go farther away which means the  the balance is gonna make it wanna tip down.


Maybe it wasn't just tightened enough , or

Maybe the  yeah , the s thing that you have tightened @ @ ,

Actually if  if you have a larger head , that mike 's gotta go farther away which means the  the balance is gonna make it wanna tip down.


Maybe the  yeah , the s thing that you have tightened @ @ ,

Actually if  if you have a larger head , that mike 's gotta go farther away which means the  the balance is gonna make it wanna tip down.


Actually if  if you have a larger head , that mike 's gotta go farther away which means the  the balance is gonna make it wanna tip down.


Cuz , I 'm just thinking , you know , we were  we 're  we 've been talking about changing the mikes , uh , for a while ,


Cuz , I 'm just thinking , you know , we were  we 're  we 've been talking about changing the mikes , uh , for a while ,

and if these aren't  acoustically they seem really good , but if they 're not comfortable , we have the same problems we have with these stupid things.


Cuz , I 'm just thinking , you know , we were  we 're  we 've been talking about changing the mikes , uh , for a while ,

and if these aren't  acoustically they seem really good , but if they 're not comfortable , we have the same problems we have with these stupid things.

I think it 's com This is the first time I 've worn this , I find it very comfortable.


and if these aren't  acoustically they seem really good , but if they 're not comfortable , we have the same problems we have with these stupid things.

I think it 's com This is the first time I 've worn this , I find it very comfortable.

I find it very comfortable too , but , uh , it looked like Andreas was having problems , and I think Morgan was saying it


and if these aren't  acoustically they seem really good , but if they 're not comfortable , we have the same problems we have with these stupid things.

I think it 's com This is the first time I 've worn this , I find it very comfortable.

I find it very comfortable too , but , uh , it looked like Andreas was having problems , and I think Morgan was saying it

Well , but I had it on  I had it on this morning and it was fine.


I think it 's com This is the first time I 've worn this , I find it very comfortable.

I find it very comfortable too , but , uh , it looked like Andreas was having problems , and I think Morgan was saying it

Well , but I had it on  I had it on this morning and it was fine.


I find it very comfortable too , but , uh , it looked like Andreas was having problems , and I think Morgan was saying it

Well , but I had it on  I had it on this morning and it was fine.


Well , but I had it on  I had it on this morning and it was fine.


I  yeah , I don't want it on , I just  I just want to , um , say what I think is a problem with this. If you are wearing this over your ears and you 've got it all the way out here , then the balance is gonna want to pull it this way.


I  yeah , I don't want it on , I just  I just want to , um , say what I think is a problem with this. If you are wearing this over your ears and you 've got it all the way out here , then the balance is gonna want to pull it this way.

Where as if somebody with a smaller head has it back here ,


Where as if somebody with a smaller head has it back here ,


Then it  then it falls back this way so it 's


Then it  then it falls back this way so it 's

Well wh what it 's supposed to do is the backstrap is supposed to be under your crown , and so that should be  should be


Well wh what it 's supposed to do is the backstrap is supposed to be under your crown , and so that should be  should be

if it 's right against your head there , which is what it 's supposed to be , that balances it so it doesn't slide up.


Well wh what it 's supposed to do is the backstrap is supposed to be under your crown , and so that should be  should be

if it 's right against your head there , which is what it 's supposed to be , that balances it so it doesn't slide up.

So this is supposed to be under that little protuberance.


if it 's right against your head there , which is what it 's supposed to be , that balances it so it doesn't slide up.

So this is supposed to be under that little protuberance.

Yep , right  right below  if you feel the back of your head , you feel a little lump ,


So this is supposed to be under that little protuberance.

Yep , right  right below  if you feel the back of your head , you feel a little lump ,

um , and so it 's supposed to be right under that.


Yep , right  right below  if you feel the back of your head , you feel a little lump ,

um , and so it 's supposed to be right under that.

So it 's really supposed to go more like this than like this.


um , and so it 's supposed to be right under that.

So it 's really supposed to go more like this than like this.


um , and so it 's supposed to be right under that.

So it 's really supposed to go more like this than like this.

But then isn't that going to  Well , I guess you can control that.


So it 's really supposed to go more like this than like this.

But then isn't that going to  Well , I guess you can control that.

That  that  that tilts , right ? In lots and lots of different ways.


But then isn't that going to  Well , I guess you can control that.

That  that  that tilts , right ? In lots and lots of different ways.

So I 'm not saying anything about bias towards small headsize ,


That  that  that tilts , right ? In lots and lots of different ways.

So I 'm not saying anything about bias towards small headsize ,


So I 'm not saying anything about bias towards small headsize ,


Well , wonder if it 's  if  if he was wearing it over his hair instead of under his hair.


Well , wonder if it 's  if  if he was wearing it over his hair instead of under his hair.

Well , we should  We shou we should work on compressing the heads , and


Well , wonder if it 's  if  if he was wearing it over his hair instead of under his hair.

Well , we should  We shou we should work on compressing the heads , and

I think probably it was  Yeah. It probably just wasn't tight enough to the back of his head. I mean , so the directions do talk about bending it to your size , which is not really what we want.


Well , wonder if it 's  if  if he was wearing it over his hair instead of under his hair.

Well , we should  We shou we should work on compressing the heads , and

I think probably it was  Yeah. It probably just wasn't tight enough to the back of his head. I mean , so the directions do talk about bending it to your size , which is not really what we want.

The other thing that would do it would be to hang a five pound weight off the back.


Well , we should  We shou we should work on compressing the heads , and

I think probably it was  Yeah. It probably just wasn't tight enough to the back of his head. I mean , so the directions do talk about bending it to your size , which is not really what we want.

The other thing that would do it would be to hang a five pound weight off the back.


I think probably it was  Yeah. It probably just wasn't tight enough to the back of his head. I mean , so the directions do talk about bending it to your size , which is not really what we want.

The other thing that would do it would be to hang a five pound weight off the back.


The other thing that would do it would be to hang a five pound weight off the back.


Hang a five pound weight off the  off the back.


We  at Boeing I used  I was doing augmented reality so they had head - mounts on , and we  we had a little jury - rigged one with a welder 's helmet ,


We  at Boeing I used  I was doing augmented reality so they had head - mounts on , and we  we had a little jury - rigged one with a welder 's helmet ,

and we had just a bag with a bunch of marbles in it  as a counter - balance.


We  at Boeing I used  I was doing augmented reality so they had head - mounts on , and we  we had a little jury - rigged one with a welder 's helmet ,

and we had just a bag with a bunch of marbles in it  as a counter - balance.

Or maybe this could be helpful just for evening the conversation between people. If people  those who talk a lot have to wear heavier weights or something , and


and we had just a bag with a bunch of marbles in it  as a counter - balance.

Or maybe this could be helpful just for evening the conversation between people. If people  those who talk a lot have to wear heavier weights or something , and


Or maybe this could be helpful just for evening the conversation between people. If people  those who talk a lot have to wear heavier weights or something , and


um , so , uh , what was I gonna say ? Oh , yeah , I was gonna say , uh , I had these , uh , conversations with NIST folks also while I was there and  and , uh , um , so they  they have their  their plan for a room , uh , with , um , mikes in the middle of the table , and , uh , close - mounted mikes ,


um , so , uh , what was I gonna say ? Oh , yeah , I was gonna say , uh , I had these , uh , conversations with NIST folks also while I was there and  and , uh , um , so they  they have their  their plan for a room , uh , with , um , mikes in the middle of the table , and , uh , close - mounted mikes ,

and they 're talking about close - mounted and lapels , just cuz


and they 're talking about close - mounted and lapels , just cuz


And yeah , like multiple  multiple video cameras coverin covering every  everybody  every place in the room ,


And yeah , like multiple  multiple video cameras coverin covering every  everybody  every place in the room ,

uh , the  yeah  the  the mikes in the middle , the head - mounted mikes , the lapel mikes , the array , uh , with  well , there 's some discussion of fifty - nine ,


uh , the  yeah  the  the mikes in the middle , the head - mounted mikes , the lapel mikes , the array , uh , with  well , there 's some discussion of fifty - nine ,

they might go down to fifty - seven Because , uh , there is , uh , some pressure from a couple people at the meeting for them to use a KEMAR head. I forget what KEMAR , uh , stands for ,


they might go down to fifty - seven Because , uh , there is , uh , some pressure from a couple people at the meeting for them to use a KEMAR head. I forget what KEMAR , uh , stands for ,

but what it is is it 's dummy head that is very specially designed ,


but what it is is it 's dummy head that is very specially designed ,

and  and  and , so what they 're actually doing is they 're really  there 's really two recording systems.


and  and  and , so what they 're actually doing is they 're really  there 's really two recording systems.


So they may not be precisely synchronous , but the but there 's two  two recording systems , one with , I think , twenty - four channels , and one with sixty - four channels. And the sixty - four channel one is for the array , but they 've got some empty channels there , and anyway they  like they 're saying they may give up a couple or something if  for  for the KEMAR head if they go  go with that.


So they may not be precisely synchronous , but the but there 's two  two recording systems , one with , I think , twenty - four channels , and one with sixty - four channels. And the sixty - four channel one is for the array , but they 've got some empty channels there , and anyway they  like they 're saying they may give up a couple or something if  for  for the KEMAR head if they go  go with that.

Yeah , h uh , J Jonathan Fiscus did say that , uh , they have lots of software for doing calibration for skew and offset between channels


Yeah , h uh , J Jonathan Fiscus did say that , uh , they have lots of software for doing calibration for skew and offset between channels


Yeah , h uh , J Jonathan Fiscus did say that , uh , they have lots of software for doing calibration for skew and offset between channels

and that they 've found that 's just not a big deal.


and that they 've found that 's just not a big deal.


and that they 've found that 's just not a big deal.

Yeah , I 'm not  too worried about that. I was thinking


Yeah , I 'm not  too worried about that. I was thinking

But they 're still planning to do like fake


But they 're still planning to do like fake


Their  their legal issues won't allow them to do otherwise.


Their  their legal issues won't allow them to do otherwise.

But it sounded like they were  pretty well thought out


But it sounded like they were  pretty well thought out

and they 're  they 're gonna be real meetings ,


and they 're  they 're gonna be real meetings ,

it 's just that they 're with str with people who would not be meeting otherwise.


and they 're  they 're gonna be real meetings ,

it 's just that they 're with str with people who would not be meeting otherwise.

Did  did they give a talk on this or was this informal ?


it 's just that they 're with str with people who would not be meeting otherwise.

Did  did they give a talk on this or was this informal ?


Did  did they give a talk on this or was this informal ?


No , we just had some discussions , various discussions with them.


No , we just had some discussions , various discussions with them.

Yeah , I also sat and chatted with several of the NIST folks. They seemed like a good group.


Yeah , I also sat and chatted with several of the NIST folks. They seemed like a good group.

What was the , um  the paper by , um , Lori Lamel that you mentioned ?


Yeah , I also sat and chatted with several of the NIST folks. They seemed like a good group.

What was the , um  the paper by , um , Lori Lamel that you mentioned ?

Um , yeah , we sh we should just have you  have you read it , but , I mea ba i i uh , we 've all got these little proceedings ,


What was the , um  the paper by , um , Lori Lamel that you mentioned ?

Um , yeah , we sh we should just have you  have you read it , but , I mea ba i i uh , we 've all got these little proceedings ,

but , um , basically , it was about , um , uh , going to a new task where you have insufficient data and using  using data from something else , and adapting , and how well that works. Uh , so in  in fact it was pretty related to what Liz and Andreas did , uh , except that this was not with meeting stuff , it was with


Um , yeah , we sh we should just have you  have you read it , but , I mea ba i i uh , we 've all got these little proceedings ,

but , um , basically , it was about , um , uh , going to a new task where you have insufficient data and using  using data from something else , and adapting , and how well that works. Uh , so in  in fact it was pretty related to what Liz and Andreas did , uh , except that this was not with meeting stuff , it was with


but , um , basically , it was about , um , uh , going to a new task where you have insufficient data and using  using data from something else , and adapting , and how well that works. Uh , so in  in fact it was pretty related to what Liz and Andreas did , uh , except that this was not with meeting stuff , it was with

uh , like I think they s didn't they start off with Broadcast News system ? And then they went to


but , um , basically , it was about , um , uh , going to a new task where you have insufficient data and using  using data from something else , and adapting , and how well that works. Uh , so in  in fact it was pretty related to what Liz and Andreas did , uh , except that this was not with meeting stuff , it was with

uh , like I think they s didn't they start off with Broadcast News system ? And then they went to

The - their Broadcast News was their acoustic models and then all the other tasks were much simpler.


uh , like I think they s didn't they start off with Broadcast News system ? And then they went to

The - their Broadcast News was their acoustic models and then all the other tasks were much simpler.


uh , like I think they s didn't they start off with Broadcast News system ? And then they went to

The - their Broadcast News was their acoustic models and then all the other tasks were much simpler.

So they were command and control and that sort of thing.


The - their Broadcast News was their acoustic models and then all the other tasks were much simpler.

So they were command and control and that sort of thing.

TI - digits was one of them , and , uh , Wall Street Journal.


So they were command and control and that sort of thing.

TI - digits was one of them , and , uh , Wall Street Journal.


So they were command and control and that sort of thing.

TI - digits was one of them , and , uh , Wall Street Journal.

What was their rough  what was their conclusion ?


TI - digits was one of them , and , uh , Wall Street Journal.

What was their rough  what was their conclusion ?

Yeah , read Wall Street Journal. It works.


What was their rough  what was their conclusion ?

Yeah , read Wall Street Journal. It works.


What was their rough  what was their conclusion ?

Yeah , read Wall Street Journal. It works.

Well , it 's  it 's a good paper , I mean


Yeah , read Wall Street Journal. It works.

Well , it 's  it 's a good paper , I mean


Well , it 's  it 's a good paper , I mean

Yeah. Yeah , that was one of the ones that I liked.


Yeah. Yeah , that was one of the ones that I liked.

That  It not only works , in some cases it was better , which I thought was pretty interesting , but that 's cuz they didn't control for parameters. So.


That  It not only works , in some cases it was better , which I thought was pretty interesting , but that 's cuz they didn't control for parameters. So.

You know , the Broadcast News nets were  not nets ,


You know , the Broadcast News nets were  not nets ,

Did they ever try going  going the other direction from simpler task to more complicated tasks ,


You know , the Broadcast News nets were  not nets ,

Did they ever try going  going the other direction from simpler task to more complicated tasks ,

acoustic models  were a lot more complex.


Did they ever try going  going the other direction from simpler task to more complicated tasks ,

acoustic models  were a lot more complex.


acoustic models  were a lot more complex.


Yeah , well , one of the big problems with that is  is often the simpler task isn't fully  doesn't have all the phones in it ,


But I 've done the same thing. I 've been using Broadcast News nets for digits ,


But I 've done the same thing. I 've been using Broadcast News nets for digits ,

like for the spr speech proxy thing that I did ? That 's what I did.


like for the spr speech proxy thing that I did ? That 's what I did.


like for the spr speech proxy thing that I did ? That 's what I did.

Yeah. Yeah , and they have  I mean  they have better adaptation than we had than that  that system ,


Yeah. Yeah , and they have  I mean  they have better adaptation than we had than that  that system ,


yeah , we should probably what would  actually what we should do , uh , I haven't said anything about this , but probably the five of us should pick out a paper or two that  that , uh , you know , got our interest , and we should go around the room at one of the Tuesday lunch meetings and say , you know , what  what was good about the conference ,


yeah , we should probably what would  actually what we should do , uh , I haven't said anything about this , but probably the five of us should pick out a paper or two that  that , uh , you know , got our interest , and we should go around the room at one of the Tuesday lunch meetings and say , you know , what  what was good about the conference ,

Well , the summarization stuff was interesting , I mean , I don't know anything about that field , but for this proposal on meeting summarization , um , I mean , it 's sort of a far cry because they weren't working with meeting type data , but he got sort of an overview on some of the different approaches ,


Well , the summarization stuff was interesting , I mean , I don't know anything about that field , but for this proposal on meeting summarization , um , I mean , it 's sort of a far cry because they weren't working with meeting type data , but he got sort of an overview on some of the different approaches ,


Well , the summarization stuff was interesting , I mean , I don't know anything about that field , but for this proposal on meeting summarization , um , I mean , it 's sort of a far cry because they weren't working with meeting type data , but he got sort of an overview on some of the different approaches ,

Do you remember who the groups were that we 're doing ?


Well , the summarization stuff was interesting , I mean , I don't know anything about that field , but for this proposal on meeting summarization , um , I mean , it 's sort of a far cry because they weren't working with meeting type data , but he got sort of an overview on some of the different approaches ,

Do you remember who the groups were that we 're doing ?

so. Well there 're  this was the last day ,


Do you remember who the groups were that we 're doing ?

so. Well there 're  this was the last day ,


so. Well there 're  this was the last day ,

but , I mean , there 's  that 's a huge field and probably the groups there may not be representative of the field , I  I don't know exactly that everyone submits to this particular conference ,


but , I mean , there 's  that 's a huge field and probably the groups there may not be representative of the field , I  I don't know exactly that everyone submits to this particular conference ,

Was  were there folks from BBN presenting ?


but , I mean , there 's  that 's a huge field and probably the groups there may not be representative of the field , I  I don't know exactly that everyone submits to this particular conference ,

Was  were there folks from BBN presenting ?

but yet there was , let 's see , this was on the last day , Mitre , BBN , and , um , Prager


Was  were there folks from BBN presenting ?

but yet there was , let 's see , this was on the last day , Mitre , BBN , and , um , Prager


but yet there was , let 's see , this was on the last day , Mitre , BBN , and , um , Prager


Wasn't  Who  who  who did the order one ?


Wasn't  Who  who  who did the order one ?

this was Wednesday morning. The sentence ordering one , was that Barselou , and these guys ?


this was Wednesday morning. The sentence ordering one , was that Barselou , and these guys ?

Anyway , I  I  it 's in the program , I should have read it to remind myself , but that 's sort of useful and I think like when Mari and Katrin and Jeff are here it 'd be good to figure out some kinds of things that we can start doing maybe just on the transcripts cuz we already have


Anyway , I  I  it 's in the program , I should have read it to remind myself , but that 's sort of useful and I think like when Mari and Katrin and Jeff are here it 'd be good to figure out some kinds of things that we can start doing maybe just on the transcripts cuz we already have


Well , I like the idea that Adam had of  of , um , z maybe generating minutes based on some of these things that we have because it would be easy to  to  to do that just , you know , and  and


Well , I like the idea that Adam had of  of , um , z maybe generating minutes based on some of these things that we have because it would be easy to  to  to do that just , you know , and  and

it has to be , though , someone from this group because of the technical nature of the thing.


Well , I like the idea that Adam had of  of , um , z maybe generating minutes based on some of these things that we have because it would be easy to  to  to do that just , you know , and  and

it has to be , though , someone from this group because of the technical nature of the thing.

Someone who actually does take notes , um ,  I 'm very bad at note - taking.


it has to be , though , someone from this group because of the technical nature of the thing.

Someone who actually does take notes , um ,  I 'm very bad at note - taking.

But I think what 's interesting is there 's all these different evaluations , like  just , you know , how do you evaluate whether the summary is good or not ,


Someone who actually does take notes , um ,  I 'm very bad at note - taking.

But I think what 's interesting is there 's all these different evaluations , like  just , you know , how do you evaluate whether the summary is good or not ,


But I think what 's interesting is there 's all these different evaluations , like  just , you know , how do you evaluate whether the summary is good or not ,

and that 's what 's  was sort of interesting to me is that there 's different ways to do it ,


and that 's what 's  was sort of interesting to me is that there 's different ways to do it ,


and that 's what 's  was sort of interesting to me is that there 's different ways to do it ,

Was SRA one of the groups talking about summarization , no ?


Was SRA one of the groups talking about summarization , no ?


Was SRA one of the groups talking about summarization , no ?

It was an interesting session. One of those w


It was an interesting session. One of those w

And as I said , I like the Microsoft talk on  scaling issues in , uh , word sense disambiguation ,


And as I said , I like the Microsoft talk on  scaling issues in , uh , word sense disambiguation ,

Yeah , that was an interesting discussion ,


Yeah , that was an interesting discussion ,


Yeah , that was an interesting discussion ,

It  it  it was the only one  It was the only one that had any sort of real disagreement about.


It  it  it was the only one  It was the only one that had any sort of real disagreement about.


It  it  it was the only one  It was the only one that had any sort of real disagreement about.

Well , I didn't have as much disagreement as I would have liked ,


Well , I didn't have as much disagreement as I would have liked ,

but I didn't wanna  I wouldn I didn't wanna get into it because , uh , you know , it was the application was one I didn't know anything about ,


but I didn't wanna  I wouldn I didn't wanna get into it because , uh , you know , it was the application was one I didn't know anything about ,

uh , it just would have been , you know , me getting up to be argumentative , but  but , uh , I mean , the missing thi so  so what they were saying  it 's one of these things  is  you know , all you need is more data , sort of  But I mea i wh it  @ @ that 's  that 's dissing it , uh , improperly , I mean , it was a nice study. Uh , they were doing this  it wasn't word - sense disambiguation , it was


uh , it just would have been , you know , me getting up to be argumentative , but  but , uh , I mean , the missing thi so  so what they were saying  it 's one of these things  is  you know , all you need is more data , sort of  But I mea i wh it  @ @ that 's  that 's dissing it , uh , improperly , I mean , it was a nice study. Uh , they were doing this  it wasn't word - sense disambiguation , it was


But it was  it was a very simple case of " to " versus " too " versus " two " and " there " , " their " , " they 're "


But it was  it was a very simple case of " to " versus " too " versus " two " and " there " , " their " , " they 're "

and that you could do better with more data , I mean , that 's clearly statistically


and that you could do better with more data , I mean , that 's clearly statistically


and that you could do better with more data , I mean , that 's clearly statistically

And so , what they did was they had these different kinds of learning machines , and they had different amounts of data , and so they did like , you know , eight different methods that everybody , you know , uh , argues about  about , " Oh my  my kind of learning machine is better than your kind of learning machine. " And , uh , they were  started off with a million words that they used , which was evidently a number that a lot of people doing that particular kind of task had been using. So they went up , being Microsoft , they went up to a billion. And then they had this log scale showing a  you know , and  and naturally everything gets


And so , what they did was they had these different kinds of learning machines , and they had different amounts of data , and so they did like , you know , eight different methods that everybody , you know , uh , argues about  about , " Oh my  my kind of learning machine is better than your kind of learning machine. " And , uh , they were  started off with a million words that they used , which was evidently a number that a lot of people doing that particular kind of task had been using. So they went up , being Microsoft , they went up to a billion. And then they had this log scale showing a  you know , and  and naturally everything gets

Them being beep ,  they went off to a billion.


And so , what they did was they had these different kinds of learning machines , and they had different amounts of data , and so they did like , you know , eight different methods that everybody , you know , uh , argues about  about , " Oh my  my kind of learning machine is better than your kind of learning machine. " And , uh , they were  started off with a million words that they used , which was evidently a number that a lot of people doing that particular kind of task had been using. So they went up , being Microsoft , they went up to a billion. And then they had this log scale showing a  you know , and  and naturally everything gets

Them being beep ,  they went off to a billion.

they  well , it 's a big company , I didn't  I didn't mean it as a ne anything negative ,


Them being beep ,  they went off to a billion.

they  well , it 's a big company , I didn't  I didn't mean it as a ne anything negative ,


they  well , it 's a big company , I didn't  I didn't mean it as a ne anything negative ,

You mean the bigger the company the more words they use for training ?


You mean the bigger the company the more words they use for training ?

Well , I think the reason they can do that , is that they assumed that text that they get off the web , like from Wall Street Journal , is correct , and edit it.


You mean the bigger the company the more words they use for training ?

Well , I think the reason they can do that , is that they assumed that text that they get off the web , like from Wall Street Journal , is correct , and edit it.

So that 's what they used as training data. It 's just saying if it 's in this corpus it 's correct.


Well , I think the reason they can do that , is that they assumed that text that they get off the web , like from Wall Street Journal , is correct , and edit it.

So that 's what they used as training data. It 's just saying if it 's in this corpus it 's correct.

OK. But , I mean , yes. Of course there was the kind of effect that , you know , one would expect that  uh  that you got better and better performance with more and more data. Um , but the  the real point was that the  the different learning machines are sort of all over the place , and  and by  by going up significantly in data you can have much bigger effect then by switching learning machines and furthermore which learning machine was on top kind of depended on where you were in this picture , so ,


So that 's what they used as training data. It 's just saying if it 's in this corpus it 's correct.

OK. But , I mean , yes. Of course there was the kind of effect that , you know , one would expect that  uh  that you got better and better performance with more and more data. Um , but the  the real point was that the  the different learning machines are sort of all over the place , and  and by  by going up significantly in data you can have much bigger effect then by switching learning machines and furthermore which learning machine was on top kind of depended on where you were in this picture , so ,

This was my concern about the recognizer in Aurora.


OK. But , I mean , yes. Of course there was the kind of effect that , you know , one would expect that  uh  that you got better and better performance with more and more data. Um , but the  the real point was that the  the different learning machines are sort of all over the place , and  and by  by going up significantly in data you can have much bigger effect then by switching learning machines and furthermore which learning machine was on top kind of depended on where you were in this picture , so ,

This was my concern about the recognizer in Aurora.

That the differences we 're seeing in the front - end is b


This was my concern about the recognizer in Aurora.

That the differences we 're seeing in the front - end is b


That the differences we 're seeing in the front - end is b


That the differences we 're seeing in the front - end is b

are irrelevant once you get a real recognizer at the back - end.


are irrelevant once you get a real recognizer at the back - end.


Yeah , could well be. So  so , I mean , that was  that was kind of , you know , it 's a good point , but the problem I had with it was that the implications out of this was that , uh , the kind of choices you make about learning machines were therefore irrelevant which is not at  n t as for as I know in  in tasks I 'm more familiar with @ @ is not at all true. What i what is  is true is that different learning machines have different properties , and you wanna know what those properties are. And someone else sort of implied that well we s you know , a all the study of learning machine we still don't know what those properties are. We don't know them perfectly , but we know that some kinds use more memory and  and some other kinds use more computation and some are  are hav have limited kind of discrimination , but are just easy to use , and others are


Yeah , could well be. So  so , I mean , that was  that was kind of , you know , it 's a good point , but the problem I had with it was that the implications out of this was that , uh , the kind of choices you make about learning machines were therefore irrelevant which is not at  n t as for as I know in  in tasks I 'm more familiar with @ @ is not at all true. What i what is  is true is that different learning machines have different properties , and you wanna know what those properties are. And someone else sort of implied that well we s you know , a all the study of learning machine we still don't know what those properties are. We don't know them perfectly , but we know that some kinds use more memory and  and some other kinds use more computation and some are  are hav have limited kind of discrimination , but are just easy to use , and others are

But doesn't their conclusion just sort of  you could have guessed that before they even started ? Because if you assume that these learning things get better and better and better ,


Yeah , could well be. So  so , I mean , that was  that was kind of , you know , it 's a good point , but the problem I had with it was that the implications out of this was that , uh , the kind of choices you make about learning machines were therefore irrelevant which is not at  n t as for as I know in  in tasks I 'm more familiar with @ @ is not at all true. What i what is  is true is that different learning machines have different properties , and you wanna know what those properties are. And someone else sort of implied that well we s you know , a all the study of learning machine we still don't know what those properties are. We don't know them perfectly , but we know that some kinds use more memory and  and some other kinds use more computation and some are  are hav have limited kind of discrimination , but are just easy to use , and others are

But doesn't their conclusion just sort of  you could have guessed that before they even started ? Because if you assume that these learning things get better and better and better ,

then as you approach  there 's a point where you can't get any better , right ? You get everything right.


But doesn't their conclusion just sort of  you could have guessed that before they even started ? Because if you assume that these learning things get better and better and better ,

then as you approach  there 's a point where you can't get any better , right ? You get everything right.


then as you approach  there 's a point where you can't get any better , right ? You get everything right.


No , but there was still a spread. They weren't all up They weren't converging.


No , but there was still a spread. They weren't all up They weren't converging.

But what I 'm saying is that th they have to , as they all get better , they have to get closer together.


No , but there was still a spread. They weren't all up They weren't converging.

But what I 'm saying is that th they have to , as they all get better , they have to get closer together.

They were all still spread. But they  Right , right. Sure. But they hadn't even come close to that point. All the tasks were still improving when they hit a billion.


But what I 'm saying is that th they have to , as they all get better , they have to get closer together.

They were all still spread. But they  Right , right. Sure. But they hadn't even come close to that point. All the tasks were still improving when they hit a billion.


They were all still spread. But they  Right , right. Sure. But they hadn't even come close to that point. All the tasks were still improving when they hit a billion.

But they 're all going the same way , right ? So you have to get closer.


But they 're all going the same way , right ? So you have to get closer.


well that 's getting cl I mean , yeah , the spread was still pretty wide that 's th that 's true ,