Yes, no problem. I was talking about the Diamond and Reid reviews at the beginning of my question and the fact that they had recommended that QR funding should be maintained in real terms. But, of course, the sum hasn't actually increased over a period of nine years.

Okay. The reason the sum hasn't increased is because we haven't had enough money to be able to increase it and still meet the obligations we have to other bits of the HE system. We would dearly love to increase it. Both Ian Diamond and Graeme Reid were very clear about the importance of being able to invest in our QR research funding, for a number of reasons. The capacity of the sector to be able to respond to funding opportunities elsewhere in the UK and across the rest of the world is itself determined by the size and the strength of the research base, which is sustained by QR funding. If they go for UK-based competitive research funding, that is typically constructed on the absolute assumption that QR will be part of that mix. So, they tend to fund to 80 per cent of the actual cost of the research, with the expectation that QR will plug the gap. And we know that, although the Welsh research base is extraordinarily productive, and really is punching above its weight in many ways—and I mentioned earlier the impact of the research base in the last research excellence framework—we know that, actually, it could do so much more, if it just had more scale. So, we fully endorse the reports from both Ian Diamond and Graeme Reid that QR is important, and it's important also to be able to allow institutions to invest in research areas that emerge over time. It's almost impossible for a body like us, far less the Government, to know where these emerging strengths are going to come from, and QR provides the flexibility for institutions, which is absolutely fundamental to keeping the research base dynamic.

Therefore, you do have concerns that this isn't increasing—you have that concern of a lack of increase in the level of investment. But has any particular assessment been made of the impact of not increasing that funding?

So, there is—. Graeme Reid's report produced an assessment of the correlation between QR funding and capacity to generate funding from other sources, and there's a very close correlation—


Okay. The reason the sum hasn't increased is because we haven't had enough money to be able to increase it and still meet the obligations we have to other bits of the HE system. We would dearly love to increase it. Both Ian Diamond and Graeme Reid were very clear about the importance of being able to invest in our QR research funding, for a number of reasons. The capacity of the sector to be able to respond to funding opportunities elsewhere in the UK and across the rest of the world is itself determined by the size and the strength of the research base, which is sustained by QR funding. If they go for UK-based competitive research funding, that is typically constructed on the absolute assumption that QR will be part of that mix. So, they tend to fund to 80 per cent of the actual cost of the research, with the expectation that QR will plug the gap. And we know that, although the Welsh research base is extraordinarily productive, and really is punching above its weight in many ways—and I mentioned earlier the impact of the research base in the last research excellence framework—we know that, actually, it could do so much more, if it just had more scale. So, we fully endorse the reports from both Ian Diamond and Graeme Reid that QR is important, and it's important also to be able to allow institutions to invest in research areas that emerge over time. It's almost impossible for a body like us, far less the Government, to know where these emerging strengths are going to come from, and QR provides the flexibility for institutions, which is absolutely fundamental to keeping the research base dynamic.

Therefore, you do have concerns that this isn't increasing—you have that concern of a lack of increase in the level of investment. But has any particular assessment been made of the impact of not increasing that funding?

So, there is—. Graeme Reid's report produced an assessment of the correlation between QR funding and capacity to generate funding from other sources, and there's a very close correlation—

Has HEFCW done any assessment to look at the effect of underfunding research, to all intents and purposes?


Therefore, you do have concerns that this isn't increasing—you have that concern of a lack of increase in the level of investment. But has any particular assessment been made of the impact of not increasing that funding?

So, there is—. Graeme Reid's report produced an assessment of the correlation between QR funding and capacity to generate funding from other sources, and there's a very close correlation—

Has HEFCW done any assessment to look at the effect of underfunding research, to all intents and purposes?

Not directly. We've relied on the expert assessment of people like Graeme Reid. It's sometimes more effective to have external experts making these points than us or the sector.


So, there is—. Graeme Reid's report produced an assessment of the correlation between QR funding and capacity to generate funding from other sources, and there's a very close correlation—

Has HEFCW done any assessment to look at the effect of underfunding research, to all intents and purposes?

Not directly. We've relied on the expert assessment of people like Graeme Reid. It's sometimes more effective to have external experts making these points than us or the sector.

Your remit requires you to encourage universities to continue to develop one particular element of research, which is educational research. How does your allocation for 2019-20 contribute to that in terms of pedagogy and educational research specifically?


Has HEFCW done any assessment to look at the effect of underfunding research, to all intents and purposes?

Not directly. We've relied on the expert assessment of people like Graeme Reid. It's sometimes more effective to have external experts making these points than us or the sector.

Your remit requires you to encourage universities to continue to develop one particular element of research, which is educational research. How does your allocation for 2019-20 contribute to that in terms of pedagogy and educational research specifically?

Bethan, did you want to say something on this?


Not directly. We've relied on the expert assessment of people like Graeme Reid. It's sometimes more effective to have external experts making these points than us or the sector.

Your remit requires you to encourage universities to continue to develop one particular element of research, which is educational research. How does your allocation for 2019-20 contribute to that in terms of pedagogy and educational research specifically?

Bethan, did you want to say something on this?

I was just going to add that, when we look at the funding that comes into our sector in Wales, compared with the rest of the UK, it's easy to see from the figures that our percentage of income that comes from research is smaller than in England, so the figures show that we receive less of the money that's available, which is a factor that results from us having less QR as a percentage, so we're in a situation where we get less of that UK funding that's available as well.


Your remit requires you to encourage universities to continue to develop one particular element of research, which is educational research. How does your allocation for 2019-20 contribute to that in terms of pedagogy and educational research specifically?

Bethan, did you want to say something on this?

I was just going to add that, when we look at the funding that comes into our sector in Wales, compared with the rest of the UK, it's easy to see from the figures that our percentage of income that comes from research is smaller than in England, so the figures show that we receive less of the money that's available, which is a factor that results from us having less QR as a percentage, so we're in a situation where we get less of that UK funding that's available as well.

So, there's a knock-on to that; that's what you're trying to say. But from the point of view of my question on educational research—?


Bethan, did you want to say something on this?

I was just going to add that, when we look at the funding that comes into our sector in Wales, compared with the rest of the UK, it's easy to see from the figures that our percentage of income that comes from research is smaller than in England, so the figures show that we receive less of the money that's available, which is a factor that results from us having less QR as a percentage, so we're in a situation where we get less of that UK funding that's available as well.

So, there's a knock-on to that; that's what you're trying to say. But from the point of view of my question on educational research—?

So, we have provided funding in 2017-18 and 2018-19 to WISERD Education, which is a research collaboration between a number of the Welsh universities, specifically looking at educational issues, and we're providing additional funding to that to add value to the Welsh Government's existing evaluation of the progress of pioneer schools in developing the three-to-15 curriculum in Wales. I won't go into the full detail of it now, but it's a five-partner project feeding into this with researchers from Cardiff, Cardiff Met, Trinity Saint David, Aber, Bangor and the University of South Wales. So, it's a collaborative effort, and we have, in the past, also funded WISERD Education, so it's an important research facility and increasingly being used, I'm delighted to say, by Welsh Government in underpinning its own policy thinking.


I was just going to add that, when we look at the funding that comes into our sector in Wales, compared with the rest of the UK, it's easy to see from the figures that our percentage of income that comes from research is smaller than in England, so the figures show that we receive less of the money that's available, which is a factor that results from us having less QR as a percentage, so we're in a situation where we get less of that UK funding that's available as well.

So, there's a knock-on to that; that's what you're trying to say. But from the point of view of my question on educational research—?

So, we have provided funding in 2017-18 and 2018-19 to WISERD Education, which is a research collaboration between a number of the Welsh universities, specifically looking at educational issues, and we're providing additional funding to that to add value to the Welsh Government's existing evaluation of the progress of pioneer schools in developing the three-to-15 curriculum in Wales. I won't go into the full detail of it now, but it's a five-partner project feeding into this with researchers from Cardiff, Cardiff Met, Trinity Saint David, Aber, Bangor and the University of South Wales. So, it's a collaborative effort, and we have, in the past, also funded WISERD Education, so it's an important research facility and increasingly being used, I'm delighted to say, by Welsh Government in underpinning its own policy thinking.

And likewise, in 2019-20, there will be allocations specifically for this.


So, there's a knock-on to that; that's what you're trying to say. But from the point of view of my question on educational research—?

So, we have provided funding in 2017-18 and 2018-19 to WISERD Education, which is a research collaboration between a number of the Welsh universities, specifically looking at educational issues, and we're providing additional funding to that to add value to the Welsh Government's existing evaluation of the progress of pioneer schools in developing the three-to-15 curriculum in Wales. I won't go into the full detail of it now, but it's a five-partner project feeding into this with researchers from Cardiff, Cardiff Met, Trinity Saint David, Aber, Bangor and the University of South Wales. So, it's a collaborative effort, and we have, in the past, also funded WISERD Education, so it's an important research facility and increasingly being used, I'm delighted to say, by Welsh Government in underpinning its own policy thinking.

And likewise, in 2019-20, there will be allocations specifically for this.

It's a bit early to say yet. We haven't allocated anything specifically in the main allocations that we've put out. There might be others to come, but we're not yet in a position to say.


So, we have provided funding in 2017-18 and 2018-19 to WISERD Education, which is a research collaboration between a number of the Welsh universities, specifically looking at educational issues, and we're providing additional funding to that to add value to the Welsh Government's existing evaluation of the progress of pioneer schools in developing the three-to-15 curriculum in Wales. I won't go into the full detail of it now, but it's a five-partner project feeding into this with researchers from Cardiff, Cardiff Met, Trinity Saint David, Aber, Bangor and the University of South Wales. So, it's a collaborative effort, and we have, in the past, also funded WISERD Education, so it's an important research facility and increasingly being used, I'm delighted to say, by Welsh Government in underpinning its own policy thinking.

And likewise, in 2019-20, there will be allocations specifically for this.

It's a bit early to say yet. We haven't allocated anything specifically in the main allocations that we've put out. There might be others to come, but we're not yet in a position to say.

Okay. Well, could you provide the remit letter from—[Inaudible.]—do that? You have to do everything in the remit letters.


And likewise, in 2019-20, there will be allocations specifically for this.

It's a bit early to say yet. We haven't allocated anything specifically in the main allocations that we've put out. There might be others to come, but we're not yet in a position to say.

Okay. Well, could you provide the remit letter from—[Inaudible.]—do that? You have to do everything in the remit letters.

We do what we can to pay due regard to the remit letters, as the wording goes. So, we have it in our sights, but we're not yet ready to make announcements.


It's a bit early to say yet. We haven't allocated anything specifically in the main allocations that we've put out. There might be others to come, but we're not yet in a position to say.

Okay. Well, could you provide the remit letter from—[Inaudible.]—do that? You have to do everything in the remit letters.

We do what we can to pay due regard to the remit letters, as the wording goes. So, we have it in our sights, but we're not yet ready to make announcements.

And then turning to the impact of the loss of funds were we to leave the European Union. Of course, this is going to have a far-reaching impact on future research, and the Reid review has made recommendations to mitigate this impact. So, what assessment have you made of how allocations will be able to help universities to transition away from EU funding?


Okay. Well, could you provide the remit letter from—[Inaudible.]—do that? You have to do everything in the remit letters.

We do what we can to pay due regard to the remit letters, as the wording goes. So, we have it in our sights, but we're not yet ready to make announcements.

And then turning to the impact of the loss of funds were we to leave the European Union. Of course, this is going to have a far-reaching impact on future research, and the Reid review has made recommendations to mitigate this impact. So, what assessment have you made of how allocations will be able to help universities to transition away from EU funding?

So, again, the Reid review has done a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of an impact assessment for us. And we endorse, just as the Government has endorsed, the recommendations from Reid. The Government has committed in principle to delivering Reid. The challenge is finding the money, and we fully understand that. There has been an additional £6.6 million allocated for research very recently by the Government, which we have put out specifically in line with some of the recommendations from Reid. So, that's a start, but that's not sustainable funding, and it's not enough, really, but it is a good and welcome start. Reid was also not just talking about the money, but also talking about the way in which the Welsh research base both represents itself and also engages with UK-wide developments. And in response to that, we have recently issued our own vision for research and innovation, which was developed over a number of months, following the Reid report closely, working with stakeholders, including the Welsh Government, in order to try and set a vision for how we respond to the challenges facing research in the future, including the reduction, potentially, of access to EU funds. And a lot of that is—. These Reid recommendations all come together; they're coherent. A lot of that requires investment in the Welsh research base in order to be able to go for competitive funding at a UK level. Since it seems possible at least, and possibly even likely, that any money retrieved from not having to invest in the EU will sit in London rather than necessarily being devolved to the devolved administrations—we understand fully the Welsh Government's position on that, and we don't disagree with it. But either way, we need a research base that's able to compete, and that's why the investment recommendations of Reid are so important.


We do what we can to pay due regard to the remit letters, as the wording goes. So, we have it in our sights, but we're not yet ready to make announcements.

And then turning to the impact of the loss of funds were we to leave the European Union. Of course, this is going to have a far-reaching impact on future research, and the Reid review has made recommendations to mitigate this impact. So, what assessment have you made of how allocations will be able to help universities to transition away from EU funding?

So, again, the Reid review has done a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of an impact assessment for us. And we endorse, just as the Government has endorsed, the recommendations from Reid. The Government has committed in principle to delivering Reid. The challenge is finding the money, and we fully understand that. There has been an additional £6.6 million allocated for research very recently by the Government, which we have put out specifically in line with some of the recommendations from Reid. So, that's a start, but that's not sustainable funding, and it's not enough, really, but it is a good and welcome start. Reid was also not just talking about the money, but also talking about the way in which the Welsh research base both represents itself and also engages with UK-wide developments. And in response to that, we have recently issued our own vision for research and innovation, which was developed over a number of months, following the Reid report closely, working with stakeholders, including the Welsh Government, in order to try and set a vision for how we respond to the challenges facing research in the future, including the reduction, potentially, of access to EU funds. And a lot of that is—. These Reid recommendations all come together; they're coherent. A lot of that requires investment in the Welsh research base in order to be able to go for competitive funding at a UK level. Since it seems possible at least, and possibly even likely, that any money retrieved from not having to invest in the EU will sit in London rather than necessarily being devolved to the devolved administrations—we understand fully the Welsh Government's position on that, and we don't disagree with it. But either way, we need a research base that's able to compete, and that's why the investment recommendations of Reid are so important.

Yes. I think Reid was saying that there may be pots of money out there that aren't being accessed at the moment by Welsh universities. Are you able to help then within that process?


And then turning to the impact of the loss of funds were we to leave the European Union. Of course, this is going to have a far-reaching impact on future research, and the Reid review has made recommendations to mitigate this impact. So, what assessment have you made of how allocations will be able to help universities to transition away from EU funding?

So, again, the Reid review has done a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of an impact assessment for us. And we endorse, just as the Government has endorsed, the recommendations from Reid. The Government has committed in principle to delivering Reid. The challenge is finding the money, and we fully understand that. There has been an additional £6.6 million allocated for research very recently by the Government, which we have put out specifically in line with some of the recommendations from Reid. So, that's a start, but that's not sustainable funding, and it's not enough, really, but it is a good and welcome start. Reid was also not just talking about the money, but also talking about the way in which the Welsh research base both represents itself and also engages with UK-wide developments. And in response to that, we have recently issued our own vision for research and innovation, which was developed over a number of months, following the Reid report closely, working with stakeholders, including the Welsh Government, in order to try and set a vision for how we respond to the challenges facing research in the future, including the reduction, potentially, of access to EU funds. And a lot of that is—. These Reid recommendations all come together; they're coherent. A lot of that requires investment in the Welsh research base in order to be able to go for competitive funding at a UK level. Since it seems possible at least, and possibly even likely, that any money retrieved from not having to invest in the EU will sit in London rather than necessarily being devolved to the devolved administrations—we understand fully the Welsh Government's position on that, and we don't disagree with it. But either way, we need a research base that's able to compete, and that's why the investment recommendations of Reid are so important.

Yes. I think Reid was saying that there may be pots of money out there that aren't being accessed at the moment by Welsh universities. Are you able to help then within that process?

One aspect that we do intend to fund—and this is from Diamond, as well as Reid—is to place funding back into the system for innovation. We're consulting currently, with the intention, if the funding is available to us, clearly, in the year 2020-21, to provide £15 million back into the sector in innovation funding. That's funding that we had to take out when the new fee system came in. That is part of promoting the innovation, and part of the research portfolio as well.


So, again, the Reid review has done a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of an impact assessment for us. And we endorse, just as the Government has endorsed, the recommendations from Reid. The Government has committed in principle to delivering Reid. The challenge is finding the money, and we fully understand that. There has been an additional £6.6 million allocated for research very recently by the Government, which we have put out specifically in line with some of the recommendations from Reid. So, that's a start, but that's not sustainable funding, and it's not enough, really, but it is a good and welcome start. Reid was also not just talking about the money, but also talking about the way in which the Welsh research base both represents itself and also engages with UK-wide developments. And in response to that, we have recently issued our own vision for research and innovation, which was developed over a number of months, following the Reid report closely, working with stakeholders, including the Welsh Government, in order to try and set a vision for how we respond to the challenges facing research in the future, including the reduction, potentially, of access to EU funds. And a lot of that is—. These Reid recommendations all come together; they're coherent. A lot of that requires investment in the Welsh research base in order to be able to go for competitive funding at a UK level. Since it seems possible at least, and possibly even likely, that any money retrieved from not having to invest in the EU will sit in London rather than necessarily being devolved to the devolved administrations—we understand fully the Welsh Government's position on that, and we don't disagree with it. But either way, we need a research base that's able to compete, and that's why the investment recommendations of Reid are so important.

Yes. I think Reid was saying that there may be pots of money out there that aren't being accessed at the moment by Welsh universities. Are you able to help then within that process?

One aspect that we do intend to fund—and this is from Diamond, as well as Reid—is to place funding back into the system for innovation. We're consulting currently, with the intention, if the funding is available to us, clearly, in the year 2020-21, to provide £15 million back into the sector in innovation funding. That's funding that we had to take out when the new fee system came in. That is part of promoting the innovation, and part of the research portfolio as well.

Is that part of the UKRI funding? There is some £7 billion in the hands of that organisation, as I understand it, and there may be some possibilities there too.


Yes. I think Reid was saying that there may be pots of money out there that aren't being accessed at the moment by Welsh universities. Are you able to help then within that process?

One aspect that we do intend to fund—and this is from Diamond, as well as Reid—is to place funding back into the system for innovation. We're consulting currently, with the intention, if the funding is available to us, clearly, in the year 2020-21, to provide £15 million back into the sector in innovation funding. That's funding that we had to take out when the new fee system came in. That is part of promoting the innovation, and part of the research portfolio as well.

Is that part of the UKRI funding? There is some £7 billion in the hands of that organisation, as I understand it, and there may be some possibilities there too.

That £15 million will be money that comes from us, but the intention is that the money will go in in order to improve universities' ability to access that funding from UKRI. So, Innovate UK would be the part of UKRI—and that we improve our ability to get funding from outside Wales. And, then, Graeme Reid says the same thing in terms of research—that we need more funding to do the same thing there.


One aspect that we do intend to fund—and this is from Diamond, as well as Reid—is to place funding back into the system for innovation. We're consulting currently, with the intention, if the funding is available to us, clearly, in the year 2020-21, to provide £15 million back into the sector in innovation funding. That's funding that we had to take out when the new fee system came in. That is part of promoting the innovation, and part of the research portfolio as well.

Is that part of the UKRI funding? There is some £7 billion in the hands of that organisation, as I understand it, and there may be some possibilities there too.

That £15 million will be money that comes from us, but the intention is that the money will go in in order to improve universities' ability to access that funding from UKRI. So, Innovate UK would be the part of UKRI—and that we improve our ability to get funding from outside Wales. And, then, Graeme Reid says the same thing in terms of research—that we need more funding to do the same thing there.

And, then, there's also the recommendation from Reid that Wales needs to be better embedded in the conversations that are going on on a UK-wide basis, so the Welsh Government has established a presence in London in respect of research, and we have a colleague in HEFCW who is fractionally embedded in the United Kingdom Research and Innovation specifically to respond to that recommendation. And that is actually paying dividends; we are strengthening our relationship with the UK machinery, which is essential if we're to understand where they're heading and what their funding bids are all about, and even to be able to influence those.


Is that part of the UKRI funding? There is some £7 billion in the hands of that organisation, as I understand it, and there may be some possibilities there too.

That £15 million will be money that comes from us, but the intention is that the money will go in in order to improve universities' ability to access that funding from UKRI. So, Innovate UK would be the part of UKRI—and that we improve our ability to get funding from outside Wales. And, then, Graeme Reid says the same thing in terms of research—that we need more funding to do the same thing there.

And, then, there's also the recommendation from Reid that Wales needs to be better embedded in the conversations that are going on on a UK-wide basis, so the Welsh Government has established a presence in London in respect of research, and we have a colleague in HEFCW who is fractionally embedded in the United Kingdom Research and Innovation specifically to respond to that recommendation. And that is actually paying dividends; we are strengthening our relationship with the UK machinery, which is essential if we're to understand where they're heading and what their funding bids are all about, and even to be able to influence those.


That £15 million will be money that comes from us, but the intention is that the money will go in in order to improve universities' ability to access that funding from UKRI. So, Innovate UK would be the part of UKRI—and that we improve our ability to get funding from outside Wales. And, then, Graeme Reid says the same thing in terms of research—that we need more funding to do the same thing there.

And, then, there's also the recommendation from Reid that Wales needs to be better embedded in the conversations that are going on on a UK-wide basis, so the Welsh Government has established a presence in London in respect of research, and we have a colleague in HEFCW who is fractionally embedded in the United Kingdom Research and Innovation specifically to respond to that recommendation. And that is actually paying dividends; we are strengthening our relationship with the UK machinery, which is essential if we're to understand where they're heading and what their funding bids are all about, and even to be able to influence those.

So, as far as research is concerned, it's not all doom and gloom.


And, then, there's also the recommendation from Reid that Wales needs to be better embedded in the conversations that are going on on a UK-wide basis, so the Welsh Government has established a presence in London in respect of research, and we have a colleague in HEFCW who is fractionally embedded in the United Kingdom Research and Innovation specifically to respond to that recommendation. And that is actually paying dividends; we are strengthening our relationship with the UK machinery, which is essential if we're to understand where they're heading and what their funding bids are all about, and even to be able to influence those.

So, as far as research is concerned, it's not all doom and gloom.

Yes, I mean, you know, things are looking up. There is money coming in and if the Government, as it is able to, can find money and can invest in this area, then that will help.


So, as far as research is concerned, it's not all doom and gloom.

Yes, I mean, you know, things are looking up. There is money coming in and if the Government, as it is able to, can find money and can invest in this area, then that will help.


So, as far as research is concerned, it's not all doom and gloom.

Yes, I mean, you know, things are looking up. There is money coming in and if the Government, as it is able to, can find money and can invest in this area, then that will help.

Thank you. Just a couple of questions from me, then, before you close: what is your recent work on the 'basket of goods' show regarding student accommodation costs? And have any institutions used their 2019-20 fee and access plans to make commitments to more affordable accommodation for under-represented groups?


Yes, I mean, you know, things are looking up. There is money coming in and if the Government, as it is able to, can find money and can invest in this area, then that will help.

Thank you. Just a couple of questions from me, then, before you close: what is your recent work on the 'basket of goods' show regarding student accommodation costs? And have any institutions used their 2019-20 fee and access plans to make commitments to more affordable accommodation for under-represented groups?

First of all, on the basket of goods, the work we're doing now—we're currently in train in terms of analysing the data in respect of the basket of goods, so this is slightly premature, but our early look at the data indicates that there are no increases in costs, accommodation or other, that would cause us concern. So, it doesn't look like institutions are succumbing to the temptation to up their income streams from other costs. So, that's good. In terms of the fee and access plans, the sector has committed over £28 million of investment in student support-related activities from the fee and access plans, and that includes, in many instances, bursaries that are designed to help students cope with the costs of accommodation and the cost of living more generally. The support is provided for a range of purposes, but a couple of examples, just very quickly: Trinity Saint David, since we've talked about them a lot today, they offer £1,000 bursary to care leavers, which is in addition to local authority support for care leavers. Bangor also offer targeted support for care leavers, and these are often also extended, so they apply not just in term time, but throughout the holiday time as well, because people still need to live during the holidays. So, there is investment going in from the fee plans in that support.


Thank you. Just a couple of questions from me, then, before you close: what is your recent work on the 'basket of goods' show regarding student accommodation costs? And have any institutions used their 2019-20 fee and access plans to make commitments to more affordable accommodation for under-represented groups?

First of all, on the basket of goods, the work we're doing now—we're currently in train in terms of analysing the data in respect of the basket of goods, so this is slightly premature, but our early look at the data indicates that there are no increases in costs, accommodation or other, that would cause us concern. So, it doesn't look like institutions are succumbing to the temptation to up their income streams from other costs. So, that's good. In terms of the fee and access plans, the sector has committed over £28 million of investment in student support-related activities from the fee and access plans, and that includes, in many instances, bursaries that are designed to help students cope with the costs of accommodation and the cost of living more generally. The support is provided for a range of purposes, but a couple of examples, just very quickly: Trinity Saint David, since we've talked about them a lot today, they offer £1,000 bursary to care leavers, which is in addition to local authority support for care leavers. Bangor also offer targeted support for care leavers, and these are often also extended, so they apply not just in term time, but throughout the holiday time as well, because people still need to live during the holidays. So, there is investment going in from the fee plans in that support.

Okay, thank you. And just one final question from me then, going back to Trinity Saint David: are you concerned that the governing body of Trinity Saint David has taken decisions that have led to that material uncertainty, and is that unprecedented in Wales?


Thank you. Just a couple of questions from me, then, before you close: what is your recent work on the 'basket of goods' show regarding student accommodation costs? And have any institutions used their 2019-20 fee and access plans to make commitments to more affordable accommodation for under-represented groups?

First of all, on the basket of goods, the work we're doing now—we're currently in train in terms of analysing the data in respect of the basket of goods, so this is slightly premature, but our early look at the data indicates that there are no increases in costs, accommodation or other, that would cause us concern. So, it doesn't look like institutions are succumbing to the temptation to up their income streams from other costs. So, that's good. In terms of the fee and access plans, the sector has committed over £28 million of investment in student support-related activities from the fee and access plans, and that includes, in many instances, bursaries that are designed to help students cope with the costs of accommodation and the cost of living more generally. The support is provided for a range of purposes, but a couple of examples, just very quickly: Trinity Saint David, since we've talked about them a lot today, they offer £1,000 bursary to care leavers, which is in addition to local authority support for care leavers. Bangor also offer targeted support for care leavers, and these are often also extended, so they apply not just in term time, but throughout the holiday time as well, because people still need to live during the holidays. So, there is investment going in from the fee plans in that support.

Okay, thank you. And just one final question from me then, going back to Trinity Saint David: are you concerned that the governing body of Trinity Saint David has taken decisions that have led to that material uncertainty, and is that unprecedented in Wales?

My view is that the decisions that the governing body made were, in our view, perfectly rational decisions to have made, given the information they had at the time. So, what's happened is that a number of unforeseen events have arisen, which, actually, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to have foreseen, and it's just a combination of these that has caused the cash pressure. So, I don't see this as a governance failure, and they are engaging with those challenges.


First of all, on the basket of goods, the work we're doing now—we're currently in train in terms of analysing the data in respect of the basket of goods, so this is slightly premature, but our early look at the data indicates that there are no increases in costs, accommodation or other, that would cause us concern. So, it doesn't look like institutions are succumbing to the temptation to up their income streams from other costs. So, that's good. In terms of the fee and access plans, the sector has committed over £28 million of investment in student support-related activities from the fee and access plans, and that includes, in many instances, bursaries that are designed to help students cope with the costs of accommodation and the cost of living more generally. The support is provided for a range of purposes, but a couple of examples, just very quickly: Trinity Saint David, since we've talked about them a lot today, they offer £1,000 bursary to care leavers, which is in addition to local authority support for care leavers. Bangor also offer targeted support for care leavers, and these are often also extended, so they apply not just in term time, but throughout the holiday time as well, because people still need to live during the holidays. So, there is investment going in from the fee plans in that support.

Okay, thank you. And just one final question from me then, going back to Trinity Saint David: are you concerned that the governing body of Trinity Saint David has taken decisions that have led to that material uncertainty, and is that unprecedented in Wales?

My view is that the decisions that the governing body made were, in our view, perfectly rational decisions to have made, given the information they had at the time. So, what's happened is that a number of unforeseen events have arisen, which, actually, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to have foreseen, and it's just a combination of these that has caused the cash pressure. So, I don't see this as a governance failure, and they are engaging with those challenges.

Okay, thank you. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you both for attending and for answering all our questions this morning? You did say that you would give the committee a note on reserves for the last four years, so we'd be grateful if we could receive that. And, as usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. Thank you, again, for your time this morning.


Okay, thank you. And just one final question from me then, going back to Trinity Saint David: are you concerned that the governing body of Trinity Saint David has taken decisions that have led to that material uncertainty, and is that unprecedented in Wales?

My view is that the decisions that the governing body made were, in our view, perfectly rational decisions to have made, given the information they had at the time. So, what's happened is that a number of unforeseen events have arisen, which, actually, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to have foreseen, and it's just a combination of these that has caused the cash pressure. So, I don't see this as a governance failure, and they are engaging with those challenges.

Okay, thank you. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you both for attending and for answering all our questions this morning? You did say that you would give the committee a note on reserves for the last four years, so we'd be grateful if we could receive that. And, as usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. Thank you, again, for your time this morning.


Good. Okay. Let's see what we can find here. Okay. A very warm welcome again to everyone.


Good. Okay. Let's see what we can find here. Okay. A very warm welcome again to everyone.

Um here we are already at our uh functional design meeting. Um and this is what we are going to do. The opening , which we are doing now , um and the special note , I'm project manager but on the meetings I'm also the secretary , which means I will make uh minutes as I did of the previous meeting.


Good. Okay. Let's see what we can find here. Okay. A very warm welcome again to everyone.

Um here we are already at our uh functional design meeting. Um and this is what we are going to do. The opening , which we are doing now , um and the special note , I'm project manager but on the meetings I'm also the secretary , which means I will make uh minutes as I did of the previous meeting.

And uh I also put these as fast as possible in the uh project folder , so you can see them and review what we have discussed. Um if I'm right , there are three presentations , I guess each one of you has prepared one ? Good.


Um here we are already at our uh functional design meeting. Um and this is what we are going to do. The opening , which we are doing now , um and the special note , I'm project manager but on the meetings I'm also the secretary , which means I will make uh minutes as I did of the previous meeting.

And uh I also put these as fast as possible in the uh project folder , so you can see them and review what we have discussed. Um if I'm right , there are three presentations , I guess each one of you has prepared one ? Good.

And um we will also take a look at new project requirements , um if you haven't heard about them yet. And then of course we have to take a decision on the remote control functions and we have some more time , forty minutes. But I think we will need it. Um well I don't know who wants to go first with his presentation.


And uh I also put these as fast as possible in the uh project folder , so you can see them and review what we have discussed. Um if I'm right , there are three presentations , I guess each one of you has prepared one ? Good.

And um we will also take a look at new project requirements , um if you haven't heard about them yet. And then of course we have to take a decision on the remote control functions and we have some more time , forty minutes. But I think we will need it. Um well I don't know who wants to go first with his presentation.

I'll go first. Okay. I'll go first yeah.


And um we will also take a look at new project requirements , um if you haven't heard about them yet. And then of course we have to take a decision on the remote control functions and we have some more time , forty minutes. But I think we will need it. Um well I don't know who wants to go first with his presentation.

I'll go first. Okay. I'll go first yeah.


I'll go first. Okay. I'll go first yeah.


Well , shall I go first with the users ?


everybody already has his presentation ,


And one question , uh your name Denni , is it with a


And one question , uh your name Denni , is it with a

Okay , um I wanted to explain the working design of the remote control. It's possibly very handy if you want to uh design one of those. Um  well so it basically works uh as I uh uh r wrote down uh in this uh little uh summary. Uh when you press a button ,  uh that's when you do pr for example when you uh want to turn up the volume , um a little connection is made uh the the rubber uh  button just presses on a


Okay , um I wanted to explain the working design of the remote control. It's possibly very handy if you want to uh design one of those. Um  well so it basically works uh as I uh uh r wrote down uh in this uh little uh summary. Uh when you press a button ,  uh that's when you do pr for example when you uh want to turn up the volume , um a little connection is made uh the the rubber uh  button just presses on a


Okay , um I wanted to explain the working design of the remote control. It's possibly very handy if you want to uh design one of those. Um  well so it basically works uh as I uh uh r wrote down uh in this uh little uh summary. Uh when you press a button ,  uh that's when you do pr for example when you uh want to turn up the volume , um a little connection is made uh the the rubber uh  button just presses on a

on a little print plate uh which uh makes uh uh  a connection that uh gives the chips , uh which is uh mounted beneath those uh that plastic of a rubber button. Uh senses that a connection has been made , and know and knows what button you pressed , becau uh for example the the volume up or volume down button. Um uh the the chip uh makes a Morse code uh like uh signal which uh then is si uh signalled  to uh several transistors which makes uh which sends the signal to a little let. You know what a let is ?


on a little print plate uh which uh makes uh uh  a connection that uh gives the chips , uh which is uh mounted beneath those uh that plastic of a rubber button. Uh senses that a connection has been made , and know and knows what button you pressed , becau uh for example the the volume up or volume down button. Um uh the the chip uh makes a Morse code uh like uh signal which uh then is si uh signalled  to uh several transistors which makes uh which sends the signal to a little let. You know what a let is ?

Okay.  And that makes uh the the infra-red lights signal which is sent to the television set. Uh which has a sensor in it to uh sense uh the signal of the infra-red. That's basically uh how it works. Um the findings uh uh that I found uh searching up some uh detailed information about the remote controls , are that uh they are very easy to produce , uh it is pis uh it's possible to uh make them in mass production because it is as eas it is as easy as uh printing a page , uh just uh fibreglass plate um is b uh is uh covered with uh some uh coatings and uh uh  and chips.


on a little print plate uh which uh makes uh uh  a connection that uh gives the chips , uh which is uh mounted beneath those uh that plastic of a rubber button. Uh senses that a connection has been made , and know and knows what button you pressed , becau uh for example the the volume up or volume down button. Um uh the the chip uh makes a Morse code uh like uh signal which uh then is si uh signalled  to uh several transistors which makes uh which sends the signal to a little let. You know what a let is ?

Okay.  And that makes uh the the infra-red lights signal which is sent to the television set. Uh which has a sensor in it to uh sense uh the signal of the infra-red. That's basically uh how it works. Um the findings uh uh that I found uh searching up some uh detailed information about the remote controls , are that uh they are very easy to produce , uh it is pis uh it's possible to uh make them in mass production because it is as eas it is as easy as uh printing a page , uh just uh fibreglass plate um is b uh is uh covered with uh some uh coatings and uh uh  and chips.

Uh and the technology's already available , we don't have to find out how remote controls uh have to work or uh how that how uh to make some chips that are possible to uh to to transmit those uh signals. Uh I made a little uh uh animation of  about how a tran our uh remote controller works.


Okay.  And that makes uh the the infra-red lights signal which is sent to the television set. Uh which has a sensor in it to uh sense uh the signal of the infra-red. That's basically uh how it works. Um the findings uh uh that I found uh searching up some uh detailed information about the remote controls , are that uh they are very easy to produce , uh it is pis uh it's possible to uh make them in mass production because it is as eas it is as easy as uh printing a page , uh just uh fibreglass plate um is b uh is uh covered with uh some uh coatings and uh uh  and chips.

Uh and the technology's already available , we don't have to find out how remote controls uh have to work or uh how that how uh to make some chips that are possible to uh to to transmit those uh signals. Uh I made a little uh uh animation of  about how a tran our uh remote controller works.


Uh and the technology's already available , we don't have to find out how remote controls uh have to work or uh how that how uh to make some chips that are possible to uh to to transmit those uh signals. Uh I made a little uh uh animation of  about how a tran our uh remote controller works.


Yeah , it's a little bug it's in the in the smart board.


Yeah , it's a little bug it's in the in the smart board.

the sub-component , I suppose that you understand what a sub-component is , is f in this example it's the button. Uh when it is pressed down , um , the switch is ter is uh is switched on , so with uh the wire is sent to the to the chip in uh co-operation with the battery of course , because to make uh a a signal possible you have to have some sort of uh li uh a d ad uh electronic uh


the sub-component , I suppose that you understand what a sub-component is , is f in this example it's the button. Uh when it is pressed down , um , the switch is ter is uh is switched on , so with uh the wire is sent to the to the chip in uh co-operation with the battery of course , because to make uh a a signal possible you have to have some sort of uh li uh a d ad uh electronic uh

Yes , uh , okay. Um w after it's being composed by the chip uh the signal uh is transported uh to the infra-red bulb , and from there it signals a Morse code-like signal to the to the b to the bulb in uh in the television set. Okay. S Uh I wrote down some personal preferences about uh the remote control. Of course it is very handy if the remote control is hand held , so you don't have to uh uh wind it up or something , or just is it's it's very light to uh to make uh to use it. Uh I personally uh pref prefer that uh it would be p uh come available in the various colours , and uh easy to use buttons. But I suppose that the one of the other team members uh uh thought of that uh too.


Yes , uh , okay. Um w after it's being composed by the chip uh the signal uh is transported uh to the infra-red bulb , and from there it signals a Morse code-like signal to the to the b to the bulb in uh in the television set. Okay. S Uh I wrote down some personal preferences about uh the remote control. Of course it is very handy if the remote control is hand held , so you don't have to uh uh wind it up or something , or just is it's it's very light to uh to make uh to use it. Uh I personally uh pref prefer that uh it would be p uh come available in the various colours , and uh easy to use buttons. But I suppose that the one of the other team members uh uh thought of that uh too.

And it is possible for several designs and um easy to use b uh sorry , easy to use buttons. Perhaps soft touch , uh touch screen uh buttons because uh the rubber buttons are always uh uh they uh slightly uh they can be slightly damaged ,


Yes , uh , okay. Um w after it's being composed by the chip uh the signal uh is transported uh to the infra-red bulb , and from there it signals a Morse code-like signal to the to the b to the bulb in uh in the television set. Okay. S Uh I wrote down some personal preferences about uh the remote control. Of course it is very handy if the remote control is hand held , so you don't have to uh uh wind it up or something , or just is it's it's very light to uh to make uh to use it. Uh I personally uh pref prefer that uh it would be p uh come available in the various colours , and uh easy to use buttons. But I suppose that the one of the other team members uh uh thought of that uh too.

And it is possible for several designs and um easy to use b uh sorry , easy to use buttons. Perhaps soft touch , uh touch screen uh buttons because uh the rubber buttons are always uh uh they uh slightly uh they can be slightly damaged ,

uh so the numbers on the buttons are not possible uh to read anymore. And uh well as I said uh before th uh we can uh make several designs.


And it is possible for several designs and um easy to use b uh sorry , easy to use buttons. Perhaps soft touch , uh touch screen uh buttons because uh the rubber buttons are always uh uh they uh slightly uh they can be slightly damaged ,

uh so the numbers on the buttons are not possible uh to read anymore. And uh well as I said uh before th uh we can uh make several designs.


And it is possible for several designs and um easy to use b uh sorry , easy to use buttons. Perhaps soft touch , uh touch screen uh buttons because uh the rubber buttons are always uh uh they uh slightly uh they can be slightly damaged ,

uh so the numbers on the buttons are not possible uh to read anymore. And uh well as I said uh before th uh we can uh make several designs.

Okay , well , that's my contribution to this meeting , and uh


uh so the numbers on the buttons are not possible uh to read anymore. And uh well as I said uh before th uh we can uh make several designs.

Okay , well , that's my contribution to this meeting , and uh


Okay , well , that's my contribution to this meeting , and uh


Well uh , my name's  , and I looked at uh technical functions design of the remote. Uh I did this by uh looking at examples of other remote controls , of how they uh they look , and information from the web that I found. Um well what I found was that uh th the actual use of the remote control is to send messages to television set , how you uh d what you described uh just early. And this can be all sorts of medsa messages , turn it on , turn it off , uh change the channel , adjust volume , that kind of thing. Uh play video , teletext , but also t uh play C_D_ if you use it your C_D_ player the remote control will that one. There are some uh examples of remote controls. You can see they are very different. The one has got all the functions that you could possibly need and an lot of uh buttons etcetera. And the other is uh more user friendly , little with big buttons. And uh not n all the the the the stuff you can do with it , but uh the the essential stuff is there. Um  I guess you could better y you should look at a a user centred uh approach , because the customers have to use them and and if they don't think it's usable they won't uh buy it. A lot of buttons they may think from I don't need s as much as that. Uh , well perf personal preferences is is uh a simple remote , with uh the basic functions that you can need that you could use. But uh keep in mind the new functions of T_V_ what we discussed earlier , split screen and uh is that a function that you should have ? Because all the T_V_s will have them. Or because of only a few and isn't really necessary. And then uh make it  I would make so that you can could uh use it on more than one appliance. If you have one that uh uh does with the vi the the video , it could also work with uh with the stereo , because play is play and stop stop and that sort of thing. The shu c you could reuse the buttons so that you don't have to have a lot of buttons for uh anything. And it should be a user friendly , clear buttons , and not too much. And that is my presentation.


Kijke  'Kay , so.  We're going to j discuss the functional requirements of the remote , that m that means that functions user n want to have on the remote control , or just  Yeah , and the users , actually.


Kijke  'Kay , so.  We're going to j discuss the functional requirements of the remote , that m that means that functions user n want to have on the remote control , or just  Yeah , and the users , actually.

The methods I I prefer is we're going to look which section of the users we are going to focus a l on more. Are the younger people going to buy the remote control or the elderly people ? And then  tho that section we're going to focus and adjust the remote more to that section than the whole user section. Okay. Some data. Younger people , from sixteen to thir forty five um years are more interested in fj features like L_C_D_ screens , speech recognition e etcetera. And we possess about two third of the market from in that range of age. The elderly people , from forty five years to sixty five years are not that much interested in features , and we possess less than two third , that's two fifth , of the market share in that area.  Goed so.


Kijke  'Kay , so.  We're going to j discuss the functional requirements of the remote , that m that means that functions user n want to have on the remote control , or just  Yeah , and the users , actually.

The methods I I prefer is we're going to look which section of the users we are going to focus a l on more. Are the younger people going to buy the remote control or the elderly people ? And then  tho that section we're going to focus and adjust the remote more to that section than the whole user section. Okay. Some data. Younger people , from sixteen to thir forty five um years are more interested in fj features like L_C_D_ screens , speech recognition e etcetera. And we possess about two third of the market from in that range of age. The elderly people , from forty five years to sixty five years are not that much interested in features , and we possess less than two third , that's two fifth , of the market share in that area.  Goed so.

'Kay. Findings. Fifty percent of the users lose their remote often.


The methods I I prefer is we're going to look which section of the users we are going to focus a l on more. Are the younger people going to buy the remote control or the elderly people ? And then  tho that section we're going to focus and adjust the remote more to that section than the whole user section. Okay. Some data. Younger people , from sixteen to thir forty five um years are more interested in fj features like L_C_D_ screens , speech recognition e etcetera. And we possess about two third of the market from in that range of age. The elderly people , from forty five years to sixty five years are not that much interested in features , and we possess less than two third , that's two fifth , of the market share in that area.  Goed so.

'Kay. Findings. Fifty percent of the users lose their remote often.


'Kay. Findings. Fifty percent of the users lose their remote often.

So we don't have to make it very small , like uh like a mobile phone or something , but some somewhat bi bigger than small , so you don't lose it that much anymore.  Seventy five percent of the users also find it ugly ,


So we don't have to make it very small , like uh like a mobile phone or something , but some somewhat bi bigger than small , so you don't lose it that much anymore.  Seventy five percent of the users also find it ugly ,

and fif seventy five of the users zap a lot , so the buttons sh should be that small , or shouldn't be that complex because we have to search for the buttons , which one are you going to use. Next. Important issues about the remote. I think it would be better with a personal reference , but okay. Remote control has to have to have a low power usage , because s w seventy five percent of the users only zap one time an hour , so the power usage is also one one time an hour , or so , with a high power usage we would use a lot of but batteries. The volume button and the channel buttons are the two most important buttons on the remote control , so those  they  those have to h be find very easily. And have to be somewhat like bigger etcetera. It has also be  have to find easily when the label is gone. My colleague also announced it that labels should be scratched off


and fif seventy five of the users zap a lot , so the buttons sh should be that small , or shouldn't be that complex because we have to search for the buttons , which one are you going to use. Next. Important issues about the remote. I think it would be better with a personal reference , but okay. Remote control has to have to have a low power usage , because s w seventy five percent of the users only zap one time an hour , so the power usage is also one one time an hour , or so , with a high power usage we would use a lot of but batteries. The volume button and the channel buttons are the two most important buttons on the remote control , so those  they  those have to h be find very easily. And have to be somewhat like bigger etcetera. It has also be  have to find easily when the label is gone. My colleague also announced it that labels should be scratched off


okay.  So uh if that's k uh if that's the problem , you also have to find it easily on the remote. Buttons. Like what all colleagues said , have to have to be minimalized. or should be covered , or in L_C_D_ screen. L_C_D_ screen is easy because we have the L_C_D_ screen , we have the various options. Put one option and then you have the all the buttons of that options , so the other options would be gone. And you don't see the buttons. So L_C_D_ screens should be easy , but an L_C_D_ screen , the problem with the L_ sc L_C_D_ screen is that elderly people fr from forty five to for sixty five years don't use the L_C_D_ screen a lot. So we have to that keep that in mind that if you're going to implement L_C_D_ screen , you don't have to make it that hard to learn or to use.


okay.  So uh if that's k uh if that's the problem , you also have to find it easily on the remote. Buttons. Like what all colleagues said , have to have to be minimalized. or should be covered , or in L_C_D_ screen. L_C_D_ screen is easy because we have the L_C_D_ screen , we have the various options. Put one option and then you have the all the buttons of that options , so the other options would be gone. And you don't see the buttons. So L_C_D_ screens should be easy , but an L_C_D_ screen , the problem with the L_ sc L_C_D_ screen is that elderly people fr from forty five to for sixty five years don't use the L_C_D_ screen a lot. So we have to that keep that in mind that if you're going to implement L_C_D_ screen , you don't have to make it that hard to learn or to use.

Uh L_C_D_ screen as in uh touch screen ?


Uh L_C_D_ screen as in uh touch screen ?

The last but not least , younger people are more critical about the features. Because they use the remote control often more often , and are more technical than the ol older people. And the older people spend more money , and easily on a remote control.


The last but not least , younger people are more critical about the features. Because they use the remote control often more often , and are more technical than the ol older people. And the older people spend more money , and easily on a remote control.


The last but not least , younger people are more critical about the features. Because they use the remote control often more often , and are more technical than the ol older people. And the older people spend more money , and easily on a remote control.

So we have to keep in mind to to focus not a lot  not that much on the younger pep younger people , but also somewhat on the elderly people. And on my personal preferences , I don't have any mo more time to come with that ,


So we have to keep in mind to to focus not a lot  not that much on the younger pep younger people , but also somewhat on the elderly people. And on my personal preferences , I don't have any mo more time to come with that ,

but like I said , L_C_D_ screen is easily to use


So we have to keep in mind to to focus not a lot  not that much on the younger pep younger people , but also somewhat on the elderly people. And on my personal preferences , I don't have any mo more time to come with that ,

but like I said , L_C_D_ screen is easily to use

because you have  you can implement a lot of buttons in one remote with not that much buttons. And it should be easy to use. Especially the volume buttons , the channel buttes buttons and the number buttons to zap through the channels. And that is it.


but like I said , L_C_D_ screen is easily to use

because you have  you can implement a lot of buttons in one remote with not that much buttons. And it should be easy to use. Especially the volume buttons , the channel buttes buttons and the number buttons to zap through the channels. And that is it.


because you have  you can implement a lot of buttons in one remote with not that much buttons. And it should be easy to use. Especially the volume buttons , the channel buttes buttons and the number buttons to zap through the channels. And that is it.


Um , well thank you all , huh.  I dunno uh did everyone receive an email with uh the new project requirements ?


then I think it's a good thing that I made a separate slide of them


then I think it's a good thing that I made a separate slide of them

so you can all read them. Oh , well not in this presentation. Hmm


then I think it's a good thing that I made a separate slide of them

so you can all read them. Oh , well not in this presentation. Hmm

Should be in there. Well , I can tell you them uh from my laptop. Um teletext does  has become outdated since the popularity of the internet.


so you can all read them. Oh , well not in this presentation. Hmm

Should be in there. Well , I can tell you them uh from my laptop. Um teletext does  has become outdated since the popularity of the internet.


so you can all read them. Oh , well not in this presentation. Hmm

Should be in there. Well , I can tell you them uh from my laptop. Um teletext does  has become outdated since the popularity of the internet.

So that's uh the first thing we I think we should pay less attention to uh teletext. Uh the remote control should only be used for the television , otherwise the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time to market , and of course would make it more costly , I think. Um our current customers are within the age group of forty plus , and new product should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty , and you talked about that before. And uh a last point , but also very important , our corporate image should stay recognisable in our products , which means that our uh corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design. So we have to keep that in mind. Um well uh according to our agenda it's then time to take a decision on the remote control functions. So , who has any idea about what should be on it , and what shouldn't ?


Should be in there. Well , I can tell you them uh from my laptop. Um teletext does  has become outdated since the popularity of the internet.

So that's uh the first thing we I think we should pay less attention to uh teletext. Uh the remote control should only be used for the television , otherwise the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time to market , and of course would make it more costly , I think. Um our current customers are within the age group of forty plus , and new product should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty , and you talked about that before. And uh a last point , but also very important , our corporate image should stay recognisable in our products , which means that our uh corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design. So we have to keep that in mind. Um well uh according to our agenda it's then time to take a decision on the remote control functions. So , who has any idea about what should be on it , and what shouldn't ?

Well you said it should only uh work with one appliance ?


So that's uh the first thing we I think we should pay less attention to uh teletext. Uh the remote control should only be used for the television , otherwise the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time to market , and of course would make it more costly , I think. Um our current customers are within the age group of forty plus , and new product should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty , and you talked about that before. And uh a last point , but also very important , our corporate image should stay recognisable in our products , which means that our uh corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design. So we have to keep that in mind. Um well uh according to our agenda it's then time to take a decision on the remote control functions. So , who has any idea about what should be on it , and what shouldn't ?

Well you said it should only uh work with one appliance ?


Well you said it should only uh work with one appliance ?


Well it says only for television here , huh.


So yeah , then you can yeah. Requirements , no ? Functions.


Yeah , the basics then by a volume , channel , one till two zero numbers on it ,


Well uh uh yes yes s sh A button where you can uh change from one number to two numbers.


I think it's I think it's easy to implement a button with a s s what which especially do that , because some T_V_s , if you press the t one and then the two , it be between five secs it make twelve ,


And and there are some models that don't uh accommodate that function. So


And and there are some models that don't uh accommodate that function. So

d uh wh the Philip's television makes it possible in that indeed to uh press one and then two to make uh the uh tj to reach channel twelve.


d uh wh the Philip's television makes it possible in that indeed to uh press one and then two to make uh the uh tj to reach channel twelve.


d uh wh the Philip's television makes it possible in that indeed to uh press one and then two to make uh the uh tj to reach channel twelve.

But uh all the television makes uh use of those button where you first press that button and then press two digits to uh to get


But uh all the television makes uh use of those button where you first press that button and then press two digits to uh to get


But uh all the television makes uh use of those button where you first press that button and then press two digits to uh to get

Yeah. Yeah , so you should have that one on.


Yeah. Yeah , so you should have that one on.

Our main targets' age are ? were ? Forty five plus , or ?


Our main targets' age are ? were ? Forty five plus , or ?


new product should reach a market with customers that are younger than forty , and now we have current customers uh of forty plus.


new product should reach a market with customers that are younger than forty , and now we have current customers uh of forty plus.

Forties , okay because  because younger people as Uh younger people have now , sixteen till to twenty five age , are f eighty one percent interested in L_C_D_ screen. From twenty six to thirty five have sixty six percent , and thirty six to forty five , fifty five percent , so I think to um  Because on most recog remote controls um the print plate will be broken how much , two years. You have to press h very hard to go to the next channel.


Forties , okay because  because younger people as Uh younger people have now , sixteen till to twenty five age , are f eighty one percent interested in L_C_D_ screen. From twenty six to thirty five have sixty six percent , and thirty six to forty five , fifty five percent , so I think to um  Because on most recog remote controls um the print plate will be broken how much , two years. You have to press h very hard to go to the next channel.

With the L_C_D_ screen it's easier because you only have to wipe the screen to uh  for fingerprint ,


With the L_C_D_ screen it's easier because you only have to wipe the screen to uh  for fingerprint ,

Yeah , we we could yeah. But I think that uh that collides with our mission to make it very cheap.


With the L_C_D_ screen it's easier because you only have to wipe the screen to uh  for fingerprint ,

Yeah , we we could yeah. But I think that uh that collides with our mission to make it very cheap.

Because L_C_D_ screens are very expensive.


Yeah , we we could yeah. But I think that uh that collides with our mission to make it very cheap.

Because L_C_D_ screens are very expensive.


Because L_C_D_ screens are very expensive.


Because L_C_D_ screens are very expensive.

A touch screen uh probably uh even more.


A touch screen uh probably uh even more.


But uh  Well um is it possible to make an L_C_D_ screen uh , how was the information ?


But uh  Well um is it possible to make an L_C_D_ screen uh , how was the information ?

Yeah , it only says that this perce percentage like L_C_D_ screen. Because , yeah and it says that younger age between sixteen and forty five highly interesting features more critical.


But uh  Well um is it possible to make an L_C_D_ screen uh , how was the information ?

Yeah , it only says that this perce percentage like L_C_D_ screen. Because , yeah and it says that younger age between sixteen and forty five highly interesting features more critical.

So perhaps we should we should focus on that L_C_D_ screen.


But uh  Well um is it possible to make an L_C_D_ screen uh , how was the information ?

Yeah , it only says that this perce percentage like L_C_D_ screen. Because , yeah and it says that younger age between sixteen and forty five highly interesting features more critical.

So perhaps we should we should focus on that L_C_D_ screen.

And if the only f Yeah , because our target is sixteen to forty five.


Yeah , it only says that this perce percentage like L_C_D_ screen. Because , yeah and it says that younger age between sixteen and forty five highly interesting features more critical.

So perhaps we should we should focus on that L_C_D_ screen.

And if the only f Yeah , because our target is sixteen to forty five.


So perhaps we should we should focus on that L_C_D_ screen.

And if the only f Yeah , because our target is sixteen to forty five.

Yeah but uh will we not uh exceed our uh our uh production uh


And if the only f Yeah , because our target is sixteen to forty five.

Yeah but uh will we not uh exceed our uh our uh production uh

Yeah you don't know how much it costs. Yeah , you don't know how much it costs , the L_C_D_ screen.


Yeah but uh will we not uh exceed our uh our uh production uh

Yeah you don't know how much it costs. Yeah , you don't know how much it costs , the L_C_D_ screen.


Yeah you don't know how much it costs. Yeah , you don't know how much it costs , the L_C_D_ screen.


But if you would do an L_C_D_ screen do we have don don't you have any buttons ? Or because if it only directs at the T_V_ , then you only have uh I don't know what you want to do with the L_C_D_ screen.


But if you would do an L_C_D_ screen do we have don don't you have any buttons ? Or because if it only directs at the T_V_ , then you only have uh I don't know what you want to do with the L_C_D_ screen.

No , an L_C_D_ screen's just like uh like a drawn here. Um just uh displays several buttons ,


No , an L_C_D_ screen's just like uh like a drawn here. Um just uh displays several buttons ,

for example um if you wanted the minimal uh use b uh buttons , such as channel and volume , you just h uh displays four buttons on the screen


for example um if you wanted the minimal uh use b uh buttons , such as channel and volume , you just h uh displays four buttons on the screen

and it's possible to p uh press them down , just like a touch screen.


for example um if you wanted the minimal uh use b uh buttons , such as channel and volume , you just h uh displays four buttons on the screen

and it's possible to p uh press them down , just like a touch screen.

Oh , yeah alright. So you can adjust which buttons you want on that s screen.


and it's possible to p uh press them down , just like a touch screen.

Oh , yeah alright. So you can adjust which buttons you want on that s screen.

Yeah , we can make it possible to do that , yeah.


and it's possible to p uh press them down , just like a touch screen.

Oh , yeah alright. So you can adjust which buttons you want on that s screen.

Yeah , we can make it possible to do that , yeah.

Yeah , if you want to adjust , like for example , adjust the audio settings , you press audio on the touchscreen


Oh , yeah alright. So you can adjust which buttons you want on that s screen.

Yeah , we can make it possible to do that , yeah.

Yeah , if you want to adjust , like for example , adjust the audio settings , you press audio on the touchscreen


Yeah , we can make it possible to do that , yeah.

Yeah , if you want to adjust , like for example , adjust the audio settings , you press audio on the touchscreen

and you get the buttons for audio settings ,


Yeah , if you want to adjust , like for example , adjust the audio settings , you press audio on the touchscreen

and you get the buttons for audio settings ,


and you get the buttons for audio settings ,


And hoping that when we produce a lot it won't be too expensive.


And hoping that when we produce a lot it won't be too expensive.

Well we had twelve fifty , I guess , for uh production ?


Well we had twelve fifty , I guess , for uh production ?


Well I suppose wi if the mar if our um  if the i if the young people are interested in L_C_D_ screens , we should make 'em.


And if that is our d uh market share to uh and our goal to uh deliver those uh remote controls


And if that is our d uh market share to uh and our goal to uh deliver those uh remote controls

But  But he also said that we should not only focus on the younger people , but also on the older , and will they use it if it only has an L_C_D_ screen ?


And if that is our d uh market share to uh and our goal to uh deliver those uh remote controls

But  But he also said that we should not only focus on the younger people , but also on the older , and will they use it if it only has an L_C_D_ screen ?

Yeah , but  Um , s forty six to forty five , thirty three percent , and sixty fifty six to sixty five twelve percent.


But  But he also said that we should not only focus on the younger people , but also on the older , and will they use it if it only has an L_C_D_ screen ?

Yeah , but  Um , s forty six to forty five , thirty three percent , and sixty fifty six to sixty five twelve percent.

But our our our what's it , project requirements are the new products should be reached for new markets , to customers that are younger than forty.


Yeah , but  Um , s forty six to forty five , thirty three percent , and sixty fifty six to sixty five twelve percent.

But our our our what's it , project requirements are the new products should be reached for new markets , to customers that are younger than forty.


But our our our what's it , project requirements are the new products should be reached for new markets , to customers that are younger than forty.

Yeah that's right. But you don't want to alienate the other uh


Yeah that's right. But you don't want to alienate the other uh

But if they also buy it then it's alright. I guess.


Yeah that's right. But you don't want to alienate the other uh

But if they also buy it then it's alright. I guess.

Yeah , but market share fro for for forty years and younger is higher than that of sixty five and younger.


But if they also buy it then it's alright. I guess.

Yeah , but market share fro for for forty years and younger is higher than that of sixty five and younger.


Yeah , but market share fro for for forty years and younger is higher than that of sixty five and younger.


I hope we uh h and let's hope to reach those uh those sales.


I hope we uh h and let's hope to reach those uh those sales.

Yeah , i i if it  Yeah , if it costs  gets too much , too expensive , then yeah , we should be sticking to rubber buttons.


I hope we uh h and let's hope to reach those uh those sales.

Yeah , i i if it  Yeah , if it costs  gets too much , too expensive , then yeah , we should be sticking to rubber buttons.

Yeah , can you um uh s I think that that they will send you some information about uh the cost of L_C_D_ uh screens.


Yeah , i i if it  Yeah , if it costs  gets too much , too expensive , then yeah , we should be sticking to rubber buttons.

Yeah , can you um uh s I think that that they will send you some information about uh the cost of L_C_D_ uh screens.


Yeah , can you um uh s I think that that they will send you some information about uh the cost of L_C_D_ uh screens.


Yeah , so if you uh you receive an email about that , uh can you post it in the  or shouldn't we post that in uh our projects mail uh folder.


Yeah , so if you uh you receive an email about that , uh can you post it in the  or shouldn't we post that in uh our projects mail uh folder.

I think that should yeah  I think we all get the costs of everything.


I think that should yeah  I think we all get the costs of everything.


I think that should yeah  I think we all get the costs of everything.

Because you are the the Marketing uh Expert.


Because you are the the Marketing uh Expert.


Because you are the the Marketing uh Expert.

Well perhaps we should have a backup plan that we would use buttons if it's uh  too expensive.


Well perhaps we should have a backup plan that we would use buttons if it's uh  too expensive.


Well perhaps we should have a backup plan that we would use buttons if it's uh  too expensive.

Yeah , okay. But for now it's L_C_D_. Okay.


Yeah , okay. But for now it's L_C_D_. Okay.


Yeah , okay. But for now it's L_C_D_. Okay.

Then you have the seventy five percent of users find it r ugly.


Then you have the seventy five percent of users find it r ugly.


Good morning, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. Unfortunately, the Chair is unable to attend today, so in accordance with Standing Order 17.22 I call for nominations for a temporary Chair for the duration of today's meeting.


As there's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has been appointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.


As there's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has been appointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.

Okay. Thank you all very much, and item 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We've received apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2, and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney as chief executive, and Bethan Owen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to give evidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and Julie Morgan.


As there's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has been appointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.

Okay. Thank you all very much, and item 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We've received apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2, and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney as chief executive, and Bethan Owen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to give evidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and Julie Morgan.

Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can see that the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.


As there's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has been appointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.

Okay. Thank you all very much, and item 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We've received apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2, and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney as chief executive, and Bethan Owen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to give evidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and Julie Morgan.

Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can see that the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.

Can I preface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot of the judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms of whether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'll stick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas where we are unable to help. That's part of the reason.


Okay. Thank you all very much, and item 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We've received apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2, and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney as chief executive, and Bethan Owen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to give evidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and Julie Morgan.

Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can see that the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.

Can I preface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot of the judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms of whether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'll stick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas where we are unable to help. That's part of the reason.

We certainly do not expect you to enter the political fray in any way.


Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can see that the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.

Can I preface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot of the judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms of whether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'll stick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas where we are unable to help. That's part of the reason.

We certainly do not expect you to enter the political fray in any way.

Thank you. But even in terms of your assessment of whether this is going to be a good thing or a bad thing, a good impact or a bad impact, some of that inevitably in the end becomes a matter of your politics on it, so we will be as careful as we can be on that. In terms of the impact of Brexit on higher education, clearly, the significance here is about the contribution that higher education can make to Wales. So, we fund provision; we don't fund providers, technically, although obviously there's not much provision without providers. So, we are interested in the sustainability of higher education providers, but fundamentally the issue is: what does the HE system in Wales do for Wales, and what impact might Brexit have on the capacity of the system to continue to deliver for Wales? So, we know that universities make annually about £5 billion of impact; 50,000 jobs. Of course, in Wales, all of that economic impact is really very significant, and uncertainty about the relationships and the arrangements with Europe is one of the most significant issues confronting university management at the moment. That has an impact in a number of ways. We can identify at the moment the extent to which the HE sector in Wales is exposed to sources of income that are located from the EU, so EU students, structural funds, and EU research funding, and so on, from the EU. We can identify some of that, but, actually, what happens in the future is much harder to be clear about. We are beginning to see some impact in terms of applications from EU students and I'll ask Bethan to share some details on that in a moment. We're also beginning to pick up, only anecdotally, some signs that there are increasing difficulties in the UK sector, and the Welsh sector as part of that, in playing in some of the EU collaborative research activities. And that, I think, just reflects the extent to which EU partners consider that British partners might be a stable partner as we go through this transition period. We don't have data on that—that's anecdotal—but there are signs that some of those relationships are beginning to become a little bit more difficult. In terms of the financial impact of that, clearly, if it is accepted that the UK is a net contributor to the EU then, presumably, some of the money—we're almost immediately straight into politics if you're not careful—but some of the money will be available back to the UK, and the extent to which Wales benefits or not from that returned money is a function of the political relationship between the Welsh Government and Her Majesty's Government. It's not necessarily the case that Wales will always lose out in that relationship, but that will become a matter of politics. There's a broader dimension, which is about the economic impact of Brexit on the UK economy and how much tax revenue there is and all of that. I think it's very hard for us to be definitive about how that's going to play out. I think that depends on the deal and how it all unfolds over the next several years. But we can certainly anticipate some turbulence and exactly how that plays for institutions remains to be seen. We can touch later on on the extent to which they are sighted on this and preparing for it. So, in terms of recruitment, Bethan.


Can I preface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot of the judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms of whether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'll stick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas where we are unable to help. That's part of the reason.

We certainly do not expect you to enter the political fray in any way.

Thank you. But even in terms of your assessment of whether this is going to be a good thing or a bad thing, a good impact or a bad impact, some of that inevitably in the end becomes a matter of your politics on it, so we will be as careful as we can be on that. In terms of the impact of Brexit on higher education, clearly, the significance here is about the contribution that higher education can make to Wales. So, we fund provision; we don't fund providers, technically, although obviously there's not much provision without providers. So, we are interested in the sustainability of higher education providers, but fundamentally the issue is: what does the HE system in Wales do for Wales, and what impact might Brexit have on the capacity of the system to continue to deliver for Wales? So, we know that universities make annually about £5 billion of impact; 50,000 jobs. Of course, in Wales, all of that economic impact is really very significant, and uncertainty about the relationships and the arrangements with Europe is one of the most significant issues confronting university management at the moment. That has an impact in a number of ways. We can identify at the moment the extent to which the HE sector in Wales is exposed to sources of income that are located from the EU, so EU students, structural funds, and EU research funding, and so on, from the EU. We can identify some of that, but, actually, what happens in the future is much harder to be clear about. We are beginning to see some impact in terms of applications from EU students and I'll ask Bethan to share some details on that in a moment. We're also beginning to pick up, only anecdotally, some signs that there are increasing difficulties in the UK sector, and the Welsh sector as part of that, in playing in some of the EU collaborative research activities. And that, I think, just reflects the extent to which EU partners consider that British partners might be a stable partner as we go through this transition period. We don't have data on that—that's anecdotal—but there are signs that some of those relationships are beginning to become a little bit more difficult. In terms of the financial impact of that, clearly, if it is accepted that the UK is a net contributor to the EU then, presumably, some of the money—we're almost immediately straight into politics if you're not careful—but some of the money will be available back to the UK, and the extent to which Wales benefits or not from that returned money is a function of the political relationship between the Welsh Government and Her Majesty's Government. It's not necessarily the case that Wales will always lose out in that relationship, but that will become a matter of politics. There's a broader dimension, which is about the economic impact of Brexit on the UK economy and how much tax revenue there is and all of that. I think it's very hard for us to be definitive about how that's going to play out. I think that depends on the deal and how it all unfolds over the next several years. But we can certainly anticipate some turbulence and exactly how that plays for institutions remains to be seen. We can touch later on on the extent to which they are sighted on this and preparing for it. So, in terms of recruitment, Bethan.

This is based on the UCAS applications and the report that was published at the end of June, 30 June. The European Union-domiciled applicants to Wales have decreased by 8 per cent, which contrasts with a 2 per cent increase for English institutions, and non-EU—so international students, not from Europe—have also decreased by 9 per cent to Welsh institutions, again contrasting with a 7 per cent increase in England. So, those are the signs of changes.